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EU Backs Ending Daylight Saving Time (theguardian.com)
New submitter Zarhan writes: Earlier this summer, European Commission conducted a poll on whether EU citizens would like to abolish adjusting their clocks twice a year. The results are now in: 80% of the respondents want to get rid of the changes every spring and autumn. EU Commission is planning to follow through and abolish the practice. In EU, individual countries decide what timezone they belong in, but the clock adjustment is an EU-level decision. The recommendation for now is to stick to summer time year-round, although individual countries will make those decisions. More from DW. The changes are known to affect sleep patterns and causes loss in productivity and even heart attacks, especially when you lose one hour of sleep during the spring change. "I will recommend to the commission that, if you ask the citizens, then you have to do what the citizens say," said Jean-Claude Juncker, the commission's president. "We will decide on this today, and then it will be the turn of the member states and the European parliament."
"I will recommend to the commission that, if you ask the citizens, then you have to do what the citizens say," said Jean-Claude Juncker, the commission's president.
Well now, don't be hasty; this is the EU ... that "do what the citizens say" stuff sounds dangerously like democracy or something.
Just pick one and stay with it. This endless debate is wasting too much time --- time which could be far better spent trying to understand why we park cars on driveways.
Or it will be about time in an hour if we abandon summer time and wait the extra hour til it reaches the current time properly.
I lived most of my life without DST. I was able to tell the time by the shadows things made, summer or winter! But with DST, I'm always off, and for some reason not by just an hour. Not to mention other problems like sunlight until 10PM. DST is stupid.
As an EU citizen I commented on this and argued for abolishing the DST and keep standard time.
Staying in permanent "summer time" just means you are in another timezone than you claim. So that is plain stupid. Now you don't only have to know which time zone a country is in, you also have to know if they decided to be in permanent summer time or use the normal time associated with the time zone.
So, ditch the DST and let the countries decide what time zone they want to be in. NO SUMMER TIME ALLOWED! The effect is the same but it will be a heck lot easier for travelers or people communicating across time zones.
The endless debate isn't wasting as much time as we've already wasted on my work project, trying to answer the question of "if someone schedules a field test to happen every day, do they mean every 24 hours, or at the same time each day?" We've probably had a half dozen meetings so far to try dealing with timezone and Daylight Saving Time issues.
That's literally what this is doing. I commented in favour of scrapping changing - I'm in the UK, so by the time this happens it won't automatically apply to me. I do hope we follow suite here though.
"I will recommend to the commission that, if you ask the citizens, then you have to do what the citizens say,"
So his advice is "never ask the citizens"
Daylight savings time is a classic government boondoggle: a completely useless (at best) project that only got off the ground because (1) they weren't spending their own time or money on it, so there was nothing to lose, and (2) somebody identified a chance to engineer their own legacy.
Get rid of it. I personally am in favor of staying permanently on standard time, since where I live DST means getting up in the dark and going to bed in the light (which is ass backwards according to human nature).
stuff sounds dangerously like democracy or something
Rest assured. These polls are not known to the average European citizen. Only lobby groups check them, or mobilize others to check them. At no point was there a referendum or something like that.
Nae king! Nae laird! Nae yurrupiean pressedent! We willna be fooled again!
You know actually based on the sun! Not some arbitrary value that is merely mostly in lockstep with the sun.
Oh, and days should start at dawn! The middle of the night is a really stupid point for the day to start at.
There was an informal online questionnaire with a leading question. They called standard time "winter time". About half the participants are in Germany, which sits right in the middle of the Central European timezone. People are not thinking this through: Even in Germany, using "Summer time" all year round would have bad consequences, but can you imagine the winter sun not rising in France or Spain until 10 AM? It's not going to happen, but "Mr. Populist" Juncker will pretend to hear the people loud and clear.
... he realizes, how retarded the average moron out there is.
Most of them do not even realize that "their" views, reactions, "opinions", beliefs, and triggers are trivially easily shaped and how easily they are controlled. Let alone accept it. They are so much in denial, that that is a major part of what makes it so easy.
Even though we are social animals, and obviously couldn't ever check all our assumptions ("knowledge") ourselves.
Sorry, democracy is just as much a fuzzy-lighted idealistic delusion, ignorant of human reality, as socialism, communism, or the "free market".
(Which are all nice dreams.)
What actually bothers us, is that those in power don't make decisions that benefit us, or outright harm us. (Given our own personal point of view.) (Due to their own personal point of view seeing things differently.)
What bothers us, is that WE are not the ones in power.
Because if they can do it, why can't we?
I dunno, maybe I'm just being pedantic, but isn't the sun supposed to be directly overhead at noon? It just seems wrong to me to intentionally pick a clock setting which makes that never the case.
All DST really changes for me is that I come to work an hour later during Summer.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Here in Canada there is a push in some regions to abolish daylight saving time. Parts of the country (e.g. Saskatchewan) are already sane about this. Ditto the northeast corner of B.C.
Even at my relatively southerly latitude (49 degrees north) summers are light regardless of our nominal time zone. Winters are dark, again, regardless of our time zone. If we stayed on PST (UTC-8) all year the sun would set at 2030 in the summer. What more do people want? And on PDT all year (UTC-7) the sun would still set at 1700 in December. What good is that? It wouldn't rise until 0900. Ugh.
...laura
While many believe DST was started for farming, in fact, most farmers don't like it. Historically, DST began in 1916, when the German Empire and its World War I ally Austria-Hungary introduced it as a way to conserve coal during wartime. Britain, most of its allies, and many European neutrals soon followed suit. Russia and a few other countries waited until the next year, and the United States adopted daylight saving in 1918. Broadly speaking, most jurisdictions abandoned daylight saving time in the years after the war ended in 1918 (with some notable exceptions including Canada, the UK, France, and Ireland). However, many different places adopted it for periods of time during the following decades and it became common during World War II. It became widely adopted, particularly in North America and Europe, starting in the 1970s as a result of the 1970s energy crisis.
Just be glad that you don't get polar nights (probably).
Ezekiel 23:20
They aren't scrapping DST, they're making it permanent. Which is only marginally less retarded than changing the clocks. Noon should align with the position of the sun.
..."if someone schedules a field test to happen every day, do they mean every 24 hours, or at the same time each day?" ...
Ask the person specifying "every day" what he or she means by that expression.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
First time I heard this was in Germany 1970. These guys were playing it in the sublet apartment a hop-skip-jump away.
Or L.S.D.
While we are tying to fix confusing time standards, we should get rid of the crazy zigzag-y time zones. In a 24-7 economy, the phrase 'outside of work hours' is only related to sunrise and sunset if you work outdoors.
I guess I'm an odd-ball for wanting Standard ("winter") Time year-round. The 'purist' in me simply likes the idea of having noon-time occurring at solar noon.
>"The recommendation for now is to stick to summer time year-round"
BINGO. Nearly all of us want EXACTLY THAT and have for many, many years now. Go on summer time and just LEAVE IT THERE PERMANENTLY. PLEASE DO IT.... then maybe the USA can follow...
That's who the meetings were with. Clients can't always make up their own minds. They just want it to work.
Europe: advanced enough to reject the DST change and keep summer time year-round
America: elected retard Trump
no wonder Europe is kicking our ass
Wait until you find out about leap seconds.
It's not like removing DST from one set of countries is going to make date handling any easier.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I was also surprised when I finally understood that a single day lasts for 48 hours (or about so, the timezones in Pacific are tricky).
It will, though. Date and time handling is all sorts of screwed up thanks to timezones, leap seconds and days, and DST. Removing one source of complexity may not fix everything, but it certainly makes it easier.
...Clients can't always make up their own minds....
Yeah... been there. :(
DST is an anachronism that just needs to go! There are no benefits too it. In fact, when the clocks get pushed ahead one hour, there are studies showing a correlation between this and increased heart attacks.
Noon is defined as when the sun is at its highest point. Quantize this to 24 latitude-bounded zones and you have time zones. Shift them around a little for political boundaries for the ease of use. Then shift them more for political purposes--like China all on one time zone. Going permanently on 11:00am being the sun directly overhead is denying reality.
If the sun goes down at 9pm then you would expect that noon is in the middle of the daylight, but it is not. The sun does NOT rise at 3am. In the winter when the sun sets at 5pm, you would expect that the sun rises at 7am, which it does. Seems like everyone wants the sun to always rise at the same time throughout the year but go down later in the summer. Shifting our clocks so it does, denies reality of when noon occurs.
The only problem I have with permanently shifting to DST anywhere is that the sun ends up rising at strange times like 8 or 9am and then children must go to school IN THE DARK. Children walking in the dark regularly causes fatalities. Like it or not having DST in the winter kills kids. Live with it or die with it, but that's the reality.
Simple solution is just to ignore leap seconds.
"if you ask the citizens, then you have to do what the citizens say,"
Bye Bye EU...
Noon should align with the position of the sun.
I agree. But as we need to average that out somehow over Europe, I propose Warschau in the east and Paris in the west as the two measuring points. That would mean Berlin time is noon for Europe. Somehow I like that idea.
(Actually I voted keep summer time for ever, because actually I like to sit out in June on a terrace in Paris, sipping a wine and enjoying the aftermath of the sunset, glowing sky, a few high clouds illuminated by the sun "from below". Or having a late 22:00 sunset in Brittany)
In other words: I Napoleon Angelo, Imperator of Europe, with here in decree: 12:00, aka noon, shall be when the Sun is the highest above Porto, Portugal, the finest city in the world! And the rest of Europe has to adjust its time accordingly. Except Greece of course.
So, as this is finished, bring me some oysters!
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Yeah, a friend of mine did that. Having a watch on UTC.
He was always late, regardless if DST or ST ... and he never flew to a country some time zones away, I think some co workers stole his watch ... there was no other way to show him the foolishness of his way.
Oh, he once was on Madeira ... perhaps he realized the foolishness of his way there ... hm. At least he is no longer wearing a watch set to UTC (since a decade).
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Only white man, would cut bottom of blanket, sew on top and think they have longer blanket. GET RID OF IT and leave the $#(%*^ clocks alone. But but but kids would go to school in the dark and come home in the dark bla bla bla. Give them a flashlight. People in Barrow Alaska have 24 hours of dark a month or two a year, and 24 hours of light a couple months a year. Don't see them complaining.
Just pick one and stay with it. This endless debate is wasting too much time --- time which could be far better spent trying to understand why we park cars on driveways.
And then we drive cars on parkways! Madness!
Violence is the last refuge of the incompetent. Polar Scope Align for iOS
I don't care if I go to work at 0600 hours or 1700 hours. Timezones are stupid. The military figured this out years ago.
Zoid.com
Didnâ(TM)t they get the AGW memo?
Why make people go through longer daylight/warmer daily cycles?
While you may think "too many" and "not enough", when those hours happen is very important. Would you rather the sun was in the sky from 5am to 7pm or 6am to 8pm? and so on.
CEST is too wide for its own good and unfortunately, timezone membership is generally a "business thing" because the people in Madrid want to have a 9am meeting with the people in Warsaw and so on. It doesn't matter that Madrid is closer to London's longitude and should have a different timezone.
Everyone wants their stock market or whatever to open at the same time as everyone else. That's how timezones get decided now.
Most industrial equipment just ignores DST in my experience.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
The worst part is having to rotate all my heavy stone sundials twice a year!
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
When I see a comment about adjusting the clocks an hour one was of the other contributing to heart attacks, I think to myself... "Has this person never travelled by air, partied too late, had a short night of sleep from a screaming baby or a construction crew nearby, or just about anything else that can cause a change to sleep schedules?" It is only one hour. I can count on a 1-3 hour shift every weekend.
What kind of pampered sheltered life they must have...
And drive cars on parkways!
"I will recommend to the commission that, if you ask the citizens, then you have to do what the citizens say," said Jean-Claude Juncker,
This is almost fun, given the amount of referendum results the EU has ignored. Mr Junker was probably drunk again.
He has costs us all an hour a year for several months, when a multiply that out its a 120 hours per year, per year of life, multiplied by the 7 billion on the planet.
That is 67,200,000,000,000 hours of misery for us all (67.2 Trillion) the total life span of 95.9 Million people
Move over Hitler, Stalin, Poll-pot we have George Hudson
Instead of putting them centered on 1pm center them on 12 noon. Moron.
And why the hell should they not?
I was scheduled to do an extended shift on a day where daylight savings changed. It took a committee to try and figure out if I would breach the contractual limits on the number of hours I was allowed to work without a break.
no we are scrapping the changes between dst and standard. every country can choose which timezone it wants to use as their standard time.
if you dont like it, talk to your politicians
I like the "fall back" enough that I do it 25 days in a row.