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Why Is American Mass Transit So Bad? It's a Long Story. (citylab.com)

Jonathan English, writing for City Lab: One hundred years ago, the United States had a public transportation system that was the envy of the world. Today, outside a few major urban centers, it is barely on life support. Even in New York City, subway ridership is well below its 1946 peak. Annual per capita transit trips in the U.S. plummeted from 115.8 in 1950 to 36.1 in 1970, where they have roughly remained since, even as population has grown.

This has not happened in much of the rest of the world. While a decline in transit use in the face of fierce competition from the private automobile throughout the 20th century was inevitable, near-total collapse was not. At the turn of the 20th century, when transit companies' only competition were the legs of a person or a horse, they worked reasonably well, even if they faced challenges. Once cars arrived, nearly every U.S. transit agency slashed service to cut costs, instead of improving service to stay competitive. This drove even more riders away, producing a vicious cycle that led to the point where today, few Americans with a viable alternative ride buses or trains.

Now, when the federal government steps in to provide funding, it is limited to big capital projects. (Under the Trump administration, even those funds are in question.) Operations -- the actual running of buses and trains frequently enough to appeal to people with an alternative -- are perpetually starved for cash. Even transit advocates have internalized the idea that transit cannot be successful outside the highest-density urban centers. And it very rarely is.

38 of 463 comments (clear)

  1. It's simple.. by fluffernutter · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Powerful people don't use mass transit, therefore there is no priority on mass transit.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    1. Re:It's simple.. by imgod2u · · Score: 4, Insightful

      This argument never makes sense. Sure, I shouldn't expect mass transit from SF to Wichita. But just within CA, the areas of SF and LA alone have the population density equal to that of Germany (between Munich and Berlin or Bohn, for example).

      Ditto for NYC and Boston, which are very similar to that of Tokyo and Kyoto (both in distance between, population density within the city as well as rural areas in between).

      The reason is nothing more than politics. And it would seem the ultra-liberal politicians of CA and NYC/MA aren't any better at adopting mass transit (despite the appeals to how well Europe or Japan does things as well as concern for greenhouse gas) compared to the ultra-conservative politicians of TX.

    2. Re:It's simple.. by spire3661 · · Score: 4, Interesting

      IN CA, Metrolink already has moved to apps or physical kiosks for payment only, cant do it over the web at all. Its absolutely disgusting. I had to call to find how much a monthly pass was between two points because they locked that info up in the app and removed it form the web. Public infrastructure should not be distributing exes ONLY to closed stores. There is absolutely no reason for public infrastructure to deploy apps to closed stores. We are on a terrible road.

      --
      Good-bye
    3. Re: It's simple.. by peragrin · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Waiting for technology is the sign of failure of planning and thought.

      Self driving cars are 20-30 years away. Wide scale deployment of waymos level 4 service is 10-15 years away.

      --
      i thought once I was found, but it was only a dream.
    4. Re:It's simple.. by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 4, Insightful

      ...The reason is nothing more than politics. And it would seem the ultra-liberal politicians of CA and NYC/MA aren't any better at adopting mass transit....

      Actually, New York City and Boston are two cities in the US where a large number of people DO use public transportation. The NY Subway and the Boston T are both old and both in need of upgrading, but they are both in every day use by ordinary people. If you want to list liberal cities that don't have good public transportation, I'd go with LA and Seattle.

      (Although, to be fair, LA actually does have a metro, IF you happen to live near a stop and only want to go somewhere near a stop.)

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      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    5. Re:It's simple.. by postbigbang · · Score: 4, Insightful

      GM paid to have trolley car tracks ripped out. Some cities were built with viable ways to expand mass transportation, and if they didn't they now face excruciating costs in buying easements, right of way, with a cost per mile that's gruesome.

      Trains and trolleys used to link the US in astounding ways. The airlines wanted a taste of that. So did the auto industry. Train tracks became urban trails. Who's going to vote to rip up urban trails?

      Then it became a class and race crisis, where people didn't want to have to ride with the poor, the unwashed masses, and heaven forbid, white people traveling with black people and Latinos. The rich white folk could all afford cars and the fuel, taxes, and insurance. The banks and auto makers made lots of dough financing driving by yourself. So did the oil companies. Public transportation in many areas suffered, just as the poor suffer today-- no one wants to subsidize those the needs poor people or pay the a living wage.

      I take public transport wherever/whenever I can because it's cheaper and I don't have to drive. I can do my phone surfing, or just relax. Someone else is driving and they're usually good. I can't see a good reason to fly on the NE corridor at all. Between regional rail and Uber/Lyft, it doesn't make sense.

      Summary: it's a class/race/economics/social-shunning problem, not to mention the financing underneath is controlled by people that never use it.

      --
      ---- Teach Peace. It's Cheaper Than War.
    6. Re:It's simple.. by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 4, Interesting

      If you want to list liberal cities that don't have good public transportation, I'd go with LA and Seattle.

      Transit use in Seattle is growing at an absurd rate - something like 40% of all downtown workers ride transit now. Light rail has been the primary driver in the shift.

      For a long time Seattle relied totally on a bus system. Which is silly - busses travel the same roads as cars, and get stuck in the same traffic messes. They finally wised up and started creating dedicated bus lanes... and, in some cases, bus-only roads.

      But the real game changer has been light rail. Quite expensive to build, but it’s reliable and moves lots of people.

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    7. Re: It's simple.. by cayenne8 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      We've already failed. It is hopeless that mass transit can get fixed in less than 30 years, so self-driving cars is the solution.

      Every consider that the modern person just doesn't want to ride mass transit for their daily lives?

      Even if it was clean, on time and lacked smelly bums.....why would I choose public transportation when I can more easily and directly have door-to-door services with my own car?

      Not to mention, in my own car, I keep my own stuff it in and don't have to load/unload all the time, I have my radio programmed in, I keep some daily possessions in there, etc.

      Unless you are down and out with regards to money, why would anyone choose it?

      The times I come close to wanting to go somewhere and not drive or park....I uber. Again, it is door-to-door.

      This is especially important when there is inclement weather, or when, like here, it is fscking 95F out with 98% humidity. If you're dressed at all to look nice for work, etc, you don't wanna be sweating your ass off by the time you get to work.

      --
      Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
    8. Re:It's simple.. by Darinbob · · Score: 4, Interesting

      We also have NIMBYs. For example, BART wasn't allowed to go through the expensive Menlo Park so so there was no service to the south bay. Turns out the south bay became a hot item later where tons of people and the high paying jobs were, while S.F. slowly became more of a bedroom community. You plan for today but the result may not be as useful tomorrow. And tomorrow there will be no budget or capability to change. Also Menlo Park has not allowed expressways through the city, so there was often a fanout of autos coming off of the bridge.

      Now BART is going to the south bay but it's still complicated, it goes around the east bay so as to bypass Menlo Park. It will help a lot of people for sure but not as many as it could if it became a ring.

      Then there's the issue that it's not enough. To get to BART in the first place is tricky. There's park-and-ride which just means drive for awhile and then park in a high crime area before taking mass transit. Or you take a bus or light rail for an hour first. Plus the cost; still less than the cost of a car, but if you already have a car because you need it to go get groceries and take the kids to school then it's an added burden; especially with Cal-Train which is not cheap.

      On the bright side however, I see more and more higher density (and luxury) apartments being built very close to mass transit stops, BART, Light Rail, etc. These are no longer associated with poor communities. On the downside, many of those who can afford the luxury apartments seem to prefer Uber or other inefficient modes of transportation that defeat the purpose of mass transit.

      Overall, from what I've seen in many areas in the US, mass transit has these problems: sparse, does not go where you want to go, is slow and requires multiple changes, limited hours. Areas with high tax revenue are low density and don't want mass transit; areas with high density tend to have relatively low tax revenue and can't afford the mass transit or don't have the political clout.

    9. Re:It's simple.. by spire3661 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Its outright wrong to push public transport accessibility onto CLOSED platforms. Those users can use the goddamn browser on their device if needed, there is a reason we spent so much time perfecting it.. Allowing this transition to closed platforms is absolutely insane and it shocks me i have to explain this on slashdot. It creates a barrier to entry to the most vulnerable people. Before you could at least go to the Library to access it. You cant put public infrastructure onto closed platforms.

      --
      Good-bye
    10. Re: It's simple.. by sabri · · Score: 4, Informative

      Even if it was clean, on time and lacked smelly bums.

      But again, it isn't. While I was in the midst of moving, I had temporary accommodation in San Jose with a light rail station in front of my apartment. It was only 7 stops to get to work, where there was another station right in front of the building. I decided to give it a try.

      Long story short: it reminded my why I hate public transport. It's slower: my travel time doubled. I have to work on their schedule: I have to wait for a train to come. Is that going to be 10 minutes? Or perhaps 25? While it's either hot or supercold outside. It just sucks.

      And I didn't even mention the stupid rules they have:

      - I'm not allowed to eat or drink anything;
      - I can't have pepperspray on me;
      - Not that I have one, but even if I had a firearm and CCW permit I would not be allowed to carry it;

      Did I mention it's shitty expensive? Did I mention the amount of pandhandling bums? Did I mention the body odors of people from all over the world?

      No thanks, I'll take my private transportation. Public transportation sucks.

      --
      I'm not a complete idiot... Some parts are missing.
    11. Re: It's simple.. by jwdb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Unless you are down and out with regards to money, why would anyone choose it?

      Avoiding traffic and the hassle of parking and maintenance. Because you have a disability (say, blindness), or a general dislike of driving. Because you want to sleep/read/... an extra half hour. Because you want to do your bit for global warming. Because that extra bit of walking it requires keeps you just a little bit healthier.

      Parking and traffic may be fine where you live, and I agree that walking in 95F/98% is unpleasant, but driving isn't the only solution and not everywhere has such problematic weather. Uber's fine on occasion, but not for regular use.

    12. Re: It's simple.. by pacija · · Score: 3, Informative

      Every consider that the modern person just doesn't want to ride mass transit for their daily lives?

      I can consider that avoidance of mass transit is what a lot of people do and personally like, but "modern" is not correct description of such behaviour. Plenty of modern people use mass transit.

    13. Re: It's simple.. by h4ck7h3p14n37 · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Every consider that the modern person just doesn't want to ride mass transit for their daily lives? Even if it was clean, on time and lacked smelly bums.....why would I choose public transportation when I can more easily and directly have door-to-door services with my own car?

      Lucky you. I live in Chicago and it would cost me something like $450 per month to park where I work downtown.

      Fortunately our public transit system is pretty good. I leave my car in the garage under my building and either walk 20 minutes to the train, or go to the corner and catch a bus. It's fantastic and it doesn't matter if I'm tired, drunk, high, whatever, it's a safe ride. My workplace is a block from the train stop and it's a 15 minute ride.

      Even with the walk I get in to work faster than I would if I drove and parked. Plus, I'm burning like an extra 300 calories a day.

    14. Re: It's simple.. by iwbcman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Spoken like a true American.

      Your lack of experience of what modern mass transit is actually like, ie. what we, as Americans, for the most part do not actually have, can be forgiven as a basis for your negative attitude.

      Modern mass transit offers multiple advantages over our current Hobsian all-against-all free for all of individually driven cars, given your ignorance, let me list some:

      1) modern mass transit has amazing air conditioning in the summer and heating in the winter, I have never sweated or froze in modern mass transit. You don't have to sit in place warm up your transit for 10 minutes prior to departure in the morning, you don't have to sweat and gasp for air while waiting for your transit to cool down from 120 degrees Fahrenheit, upon entering your transit after a long days work. It's virtually never too hot or too cold in modern mass transit.

      2) modern mass transit is clean, well maintained and quite pleasant, and you might just be sitting next to corporate executives and/or high ranked politicians, for in places with modern mass transit, even the well off prefer using mass transit. Only in *expletive* societies like the US is mass transit considered only good enough for the poorest of the poor.

      3) modern mass transit allows you to make great use of the 3-4 hours a day that countless Americans waste driving their cars. Modern mass transit has internet, electricity, tables to work on and places where 4-6 people can, if they so choose, sit together. You can text safely while riding in modern mass transit, whereas in a car you threaten the life of yourself and everyone around you. You can read, write reports, hell you can even code, surf the web, watch videos or listen to music. And god forbid if you are so inclined you can even *speak* to another also present human being.

      4) modern mass transit is amazingly quiet and smooth. In some cities the trams are so quiet that bicyclists wearing headphones cant even tell their coming, ie. that's how little vibration and noise they make nowadays. Rapid high speed trains, a critical part of modern mass transit, are so frigging smooth you can fill a glass of wine on your table and leave it untouched over a 500 miles trip at speeds in excess of 250 mph on average. We have nothing like this in America, so I forgive you for being ignorant.

      5) modern mass transit systems consist of multiple separate yet inter-linked systems. Your experience as a passenger is as if there is a single moving sidewalk, because you can effortlessly and quickly switch from one to the next to the next of these separate inter-linked systems. Modern mass tranist systems usually consist of inter-linked high speed trains, subways, trams and bus systems. These inter-linked system connect cities and towns over larger geographic areas, metropolitan areas can extend hundreds of miles in all directions, meaning you can easily work or study hundred+ miles from where you live, and still spend less time in-transit than you currently do with your car.

      6) modern mass transit systems are incredibly reliable in terms of timing, if for no other reason than that are entirely isolated from automobile traffic and do not compete with cars. Modern mass transit systems run almost 24 hours offering service from whee early in the morning (5:00AM), until quite late at night(12:00 - 2:00 AM), and they operate on the weekends. If you want to be guaranteed to be on time to work or classes, use modern mass transit.

      7) modern mass transit systems ensure that where you want and need to shop is almost always within some smallish number of yards from mass transit stops. This means far less walking than what is entailed when shopping in places surrounded by epically large parking places. It also means you can easily do a little bit of shopping on your way back home from work or school 2-3 times a week rather than trying to buy everything needed for half a month and being exhausted from carrying 100 plus bags of goods for your family every time

    15. Re:It's simple.. by Zontar+The+Mindless · · Score: 4, Informative

      Self-driving cars can drive in tight "platoons" that greatly increase the carrying capacity of roads.

      Sort of like those tight collections of cars known as "trains"?

      --
      Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
    16. Re: It's simple.. by iwbcman · · Score: 3, Informative

      Trains in America are not even the in the same league as trains in Europe. If you have never been on one you simply don't know the difference. European, and Japanese, and even Chinese trains travel at much higher speeds than anything in the US. The higher speed is accompanied with a totally different riding experience: much less noise, vibration and being tossed around.

      You are correct in comparing buses. But you are missing the point of my previous post. Buses are fine when used in conjunction with other mass transit systems(subway, trams, light rail, hihgh speed trains), but buses do not cause the synergistic effects that permanent mass transit connections do, thus they have negligible effects on property value and utility, partly due to the fact that bus stops are moved around frequently and they don't generate the amount of foot traffic, except where bus hubs connect with other mass transit systems. When you couple this with the American system of having separate bus systems for children of school age, which have zero connection with other bus systems or other mass transit connections, because they are 100% decoupled, you end up with public bus systems that remain under utilized and inefficient.

      Additionally you have a different social environment on public transit when each adult on the bus is responsible for safeguarding the well being of young children. In Europe 6-7 years hop on the trams by themselves to go to school, frequently in the company of other school-aged children, they are not accompanied by adults, but each adult on the tram understands their responsibility towards safeguarding the children. Let's put it this way, it's just really different than what we experience here in the US.

      There are important exceptions, alternate implementations of bus systems that actually do have the kind of synergistic effects. One city in China, whose name I forget, actually has a setup with a major artery traversing the city alone one axis have something like 12 lanes, with the interior 4 lanes physically isolated from the surrounding 8 lanes, where there are bus stop every 100 meters and the buses run continuous loops up and down this artery, the buses hit each bus stop with something like 30 seconds between buses, creating a hyper efficient form of mass transit which actually surpasses subways in terms of utility and mobility.

      But again most cities in America *only* have bus systems and they do not connect with any other forms of mass transit. Which means that bus systems utterly fail, on their own, to create the synergistic economies which are to be found everywhere where buses compliment actual mass transit systems.

      I lived in a city named Marburg in Germany from 1994 till 1998, part of the 190 Deutsch Mark(60 dollar) tuition fee for University studies included free use of all public transit within 100km of the city. I had an opportunity to study Latin in Frankfurt which was roughly 90km distance from Marburg. Marburg has approximately 60,000 inhabitants, Frankfurt some around 1.5 million inhabitants. 5 days a week I would leave my apart, walk 100 yards to the bus stop, caught the bus to the central train station, caught a train to Frankfurt, went to the subway station beneath the Frankfurt central train station, rode the subway for 3 1/2 mites, exited the subway climbed up the stairs to the street, hopped on a tram for the remaining two miles, and then walked 100 yards to the Latin class, where I studied for 4 hours and then did the exact same trip in reverse.

      The total trip time from my apartment to the Latin class was about 75 minutes, the same in reverse, and in 4 months I never ran into a delay, and I probably only had to walked about 250 yards total each way. And this was included in the cost of the University Tuition.

      There is nothing like this in the United States, there are only a handful of American cities that have rudimentary mass transit systems, nothing approaching what roughly 300 million people take for granted across most of Europe.

    17. Re: It's simple.. by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Get rid of these people? What the hell, Adolf? How did this get up to +5?

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    18. Re: It's simple.. by hazardPPP · · Score: 4, Insightful

      And I didn't even mention the stupid rules they have: - I'm not allowed to eat or drink anything; - I can't have pepperspray on me; - Not that I have one, but even if I had a firearm and CCW permit I would not be allowed to carry it;

      San Jose's public transportation sounds pretty poorly managed from your description, so it's no wonder people prefer to drive. However, if you feel the need to carry peppespray or firearms on you on your way to work, or wherever, I'd say San Jose has bigger problems than its light rail system.

      Also, you complain here about not being able to eat anything on the train, while later in your post you complain about odours on the train. I'm sure you realize that, if everyone could eat on the train, the odours would be that much more unpleasant? The sweat and garlic... Finally, I hope you don't eat while driving, since that's a bit of a safety hazard.

  2. Answer: The Koch Brothers by nospam007 · · Score: 4, Informative

    They are behind it for decades.

    https://www.nytimes.com/2018/0...

    1. Re:Answer: The Koch Brothers by spudnic · · Score: 5, Informative

      We had a pretty forward looking transit plan up for a vote here in Nashville recently. It really was quite innovative and had good support.

      The Koch Brothers came in and spent millions on anti-transportation ads. They rallied the residents in lower income areas behind the idea that they were going to be stuck with old buses when the more affluent areas would get the new infrastructure.

      The proposal was voted down with more votes from those precincts casting ballots than for almost any other election.

      Sad.

      --
      load "linux",8,1
  3. There is also the issue of urban planning by filesiteguy · · Score: 5, Informative

    I live outside of Los Angeles. In my case, there's a rail station about five miles from my house. There is also a train station a block from my office. I *could* ride a bike there and then take a train. I honestly would like to. However, the total commute by car is about 40 minutes (17 miles) door-to-door. The MINIMUM commute by rail would be three hours door to door.

    Thanks, I'll take my car.

    1. Re:There is also the issue of urban planning by ausekilis · · Score: 3, Informative

      My nearest bus stop is 7 miles away, nearest train stop is 3 miles from work (~12 miles for me). My options are ~35 min of drive time, an hour and a half of biking, an hour for car + train, or near two hours for some combination with a bus. As mentioned in one of my previous comments, even dedicated bike lanes are in short supply and I'd be taking my life in my own hands with 3000lb wrecking balls flying 3 feet next to me at 50mph.

      My city doesn't even have buses, I'd be going to an adjacent city to get to work. How's that for fun?

    2. Re:There is also the issue of urban planning by CWCheese · · Score: 3, Interesting

      The reason LA trains don't go to LAX is the powerful taxicab commission that has spent decades lobbying the city to keep the trains at least 2 miles outside the airport so they can carry the passengers the final distance. Only the future Olympics (2028) has finally caused a slight break in that firewall; the city is extending light rail to a station 1 mile from LAX, and are building a brand new people-mover train from the station into LAX. So, the airline passenger can take the light rail all the way to the Crenshaw station, get out and transfer into a people mover to the airport, letting you off inside the center of the horseshoe so you can walk to one of the 8 terminals to get to your flight. If they are true to form, it will be like North Hollywood where you have to walk across a wide boulevard to make the transfer.

      --
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  4. We allowed it to be private, then let it collapse. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Many US cities had streetcar lines up until the 50s/60s. They were by and large privately owned, later bought by GM/Firestone, and went bust to be replaced by busses, which required tires. So the cities tore out miles and miles of track.

    Stupid right? It's a failure of government that just wanted to move on to cars, and didn't see any value in buying this infrastructure (already on the publicly owned and maintained streets).

    The US has long had this fantasy that everything can just be done by private enterprise. For some things it's true. I'm not a fan of government telecom owned telecom monopolies or the government owned energy monopoly in Mexico. But some things provide positive externalities like transit, or roads or bridges really should be owned and operated by the government.

    Most other countries figured this out long ago. We still thought we could give short shrify to transit, and hope people just get along with cars, and move further and further away (some weird obsession with wanting more property).

  5. Transit in Utah by Tog+Klim · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Transit Utah is surprisingly good for mountain state.

    I used it to commute for several years. The problem was the increased time spent in the commute.

    Using the trains my commute was 1.5 hours from my door to my office. On motorcycle it is 45 minutes. In a car it was someplace in between. They offered wifi on the train, but the quality was too poor to do anything beyond a git push, email or basic browsing. Forget using a VPN. To make the train time useful I had to save work for the train. If I didn't have that kind of work to do, then the extra hour and half was coming out of my personal time. (my quality of life)

    Now I work closer to home. Self transport is 15-20 minutes now. Mass transit is 50 minutes but only runs twice a day. But even if it was every ten minutes, I wouldn't do it because I want to be productive.

    Self transport (Automobile/Motorcycle) equates to freedom in the US; go where you want when you want.

    Mass transport puts you on someone else's schedule instead of your own.

    Mass transit can't seem to function in the US because there is just too much space to cover. For densely populated areas there is enough mass to make it work. Without the population density, it cannot make enough money to pay it's own bills, so it naturally fails unless it is propped up by a government.

  6. NYC 1975 vs Today by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When I was a teenager in NYC, one could walk up to a subway platform and count on a train showing up in 3-5 minutes.

    Today, that time is more like 10-30 minutes, depending on how broke the MTA is from it's monthly pension obligations that month.

    The reasons ridership is down is because it's faster to simply walk or to take a cab.

    Mass transit suffers from the Amtrak problem. It is unable to provide adequate service because 80% of its budget is spend paying the unsustainable pension promises of yesteryear, and paying absurd salaries to current employees. Seriously, clerks working in MTA token booths get a compensation package worth well in excess of $100K per year, just to change US currency into subway tokens.

    Fix that problem, and you fix mass transit.

  7. Mass transit can't possibly "compete" by timholman · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Once cars arrived, nearly every U.S. transit agency slashed service to cut costs, instead of improving service to stay competitive.

    That statement presupposes that "improving service" could ever have allowed mass transit to keep up. How do you "compete" with personal transit that takes you from door to door, on your own schedule, day or night, from the convenience of your own home, without having to worry about being assaulted or robbed by someone riding with you? It was inevitable that mass transit would lose out when automobiles came on the scene.

    The problem with the mass transit debate is two-fold:

    (1) It is dominated by people who moan and moralize about what other people "ought" to be doing, rather than what they choose to do as a matter of personal convenience and time savings.

    (2) Many of the people doing the moaning and moralizing don't believe in eating the dog food being served to the plebes; they drive their own vehicles. You see, their personal time is extremely valuable, even if they don't consider yours to be.

    There is no "conspiracy" against mass transit. Commuters are quite capable of making their own choices about the quickest, safest, most convenient way to getting from point A to point B. Mass transit just can't compete with personal transportation, except in the very densest urban environments.

    1. Re:Mass transit can't possibly "compete" by DogDude · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Mass transit just can't compete with personal transportation, except in the very densest urban environments

      Spoken as somebody who's never been out of the US, I'm willing to bet.

      --
      I don't respond to AC's.
    2. Re:Mass transit can't possibly "compete" by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Mass transit can compete with personal transport just fine.

      Look at Japan. Train stations are major hubs. They often build a shopping centre on top of the station, and offices around it. Bus companies link up to get people further out. Any new development makes sure it has regular bus/real links and sells that as a benefit of living there - sail past the people stuck in their cars on congested roads with a rail track or purpose built bus lane.

      The mistake other countries make is trying to graft on public transport later. Train companies in particular miss a trick by not using the land the station is built on for 10 floors of retail too.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  8. old cities by ArhcAngel · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Most large European cities were large long before the advent of the automobile. This meant their transit infrastructure was designed at most for horse and buggy. To build roads to accommodate automobiles would mean tearing down buildings to widen roads. America by contrast grew up with automobiles and wide open spaces so except for the North East coastal cities the roads are at least big enough for most passenger cars. Several other factors contributed to make mass transit less of a necessity leading to low ridership.

    --
    "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it." - K
  9. Because we're suckers for good marketing by damn_registrars · · Score: 4, Insightful

    We are told we need single-family houses to make us happy and wealthy - so we buy single-family houses. We are told we need cars to make us happy and productive - so we buy cars.

    Mass transit has no effective marketing. It's just there, like municipal water service. You can use it or ignore it. And as we keep telling people that the "good life" is outside the city - and hence outside the reach of many transit systems - they don't invest the effort in using them.

    --
    Damn_registrars has no butt-hole. Damn_registrars has no use for a butt-hole.
    1. Re:Because we're suckers for good marketing by sootman · · Score: 5, Insightful

      > We are told we need single-family houses to make us happy and wealthy - so we buy single-family houses.

      Is that why we buy them? I bought mine so I wouldn't have to share walls with inconsiderate assholes.

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    2. Re:Because we're suckers for good marketing by eth1 · · Score: 4, Insightful

      > We are told we need single-family houses to make us happy and wealthy - so we buy single-family houses.

      Is that why we buy them? I bought mine so I wouldn't have to share walls with inconsiderate assholes.

      Also, a single-family home allows me to do things I enjoy that would make ME an inconsiderate asshole if I shared walls/floors/ceilings with someone.

  10. Sustainable Transportation Professional Here! by eepok · · Score: 5, Informative

    I work with transit agencies, city planners, major employers, and the commuters themselves. Here's what I know to be the causes:

    1. Low population density - If you go to the denser parts of LA, you get good transit. Same with SF, NYC, etc. If you head out to the land of single-family homes, population density drops to the point where you need massive subsidies to keep a route going. But then, you're fighting against...

    2. Suburban Road Network Design - When you have mile-long block-faces along arterials, you guarantee that transit riders will need to walk .5-.75 miles on average to a bus route... not even likely the route they need. Then there's the whole issue of...

    3. People Don't Live Near Work - Most people have to balance housing affordability, proximity to work, and living in a home they like. Part of that is because those who can afford to buy a home typically want a back yard, front yard, and a two car garage (see #s 1 and 2) and the other part is that given the demand to live near major work centers, the cost per square foot to live near work is pretty damn high. And then there's the issue of people buying up homes for investment (rentals) instead of living in them thereby exasperating the "drive til you qualify" problem, but that's a whole other discussion.

    4. Free parking and ignorance of the cost of commutes - People don't want to pay for public transit they're not using, so they vote down funding. That increases user fees and thus makes it unattractive to use because most people don't have separate parking fees. Instead, employers underpay their workers to fund parking costs. Moreover, people assume that "gas need to be bought" so they don't factor the cost of fuel into their commutes and thus can't accurately compare the cost of a monthly transit pass to the cost of a drive-alone commute.

    5. Transit Fare Interoperability - Transit systems are typically city-wide or county-wide. Very few cross county jurisdictional boundaries. They are thus, in effect, silo'd. They have their own fare/rate structure (cost per boarding, discounts for multi-boarding passes), pass structure (monthly passes vs. 30-day passes), and absent a multi-jurisdictional agreement (Like Clipper in the Bay Area), many people need to purchase and maintain multiple bus passes for daily commutes. State SHOULD pass laws that require that each county get onboard with multi-jurisdictional pass/pricing schemes by 202X and then set another deadline to have groups of neighboring counties merge their pass/pricing schema until we have statewide transit passes. After all, it has taken over 20 years for the SF Bay area Clipper Card to get to where it is and it still only includes 22 of the local transit agencies. There are over 164 transit agencies in California alone.

    I could go on....

  11. Employer support helps by PuddleBoy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    My employer is willing to deduct the cost of a monthly transit pass (in Portland, OR) from my check *pre-tax*, so they are showing their support by offering this incentive and convenience. (The pass arrives by mail each month)

    That pass is good for; bus lines, train lines, streetcars, and the buses that run between Portland and Vancouver. It's quite convenient. (easy)

    That ease of access should never be underestimated. Even though I got the pass for commuting to work, I have used it to travel to concert venues - I then don't experience that right-after-the-concert-crush of people trying to drive out of a huge parking lot.

    Yes, using transit takes longer. There are many instances where I would not dream of using it because of the total transit time involved. But for a lot of reasonably-short-distance travel, it's great.

    If more employers installed more bike racks, offered convenience in buying transit passes, encouraged telecommuting, etc. we would all benefit in many (some subtle) ways.

  12. Not just mass transit by AnthonywC · · Score: 3, Insightful

    But almost all public infrastructure in USA are in very bad shape. USA got a D+ rating in 2017 from (ASCE) American Society of Civil Engineers https://www.infrastructurerepo...

  13. Counter Point by skam240 · · Score: 4, Interesting

    When I travel in Europe I never use a car. It's really rather liberating and I can stay longer because I'm spending less money. (Admitted minor point)

    After that, I spent a good while being lower income when I was younger. Oh lord would it have been nice to live in a country where public transportation was widely available and I didn't have to spend such a significant portion of my income on a car and all of it's associated bills. When I go shopping or out to eat literally anywhere the vast majority of those people operating those stores are in the exact same boat as I was back then. The extra money saved by these masses would likely be spent elsewhere contributing far more to job growth then buying and maintaining a car whose construction is largely automated.

    And then after that, I remember when I had to commute by car at a slightly older age. What a garbage fest it is commuting by car. I'd have a traded a slightly longer commute by mass transit where I could read, work, or just plane space out the entire time over stop and go traffic where I'm just stuck sitting there having to focus on the road.

    And then after that, in all my travels in the US, our highways are never wide enough during high traffic periods and likely never will be under our current transportation model.

    In summary, a car is a major expense for most Americans. Sure the convenience of car ownership is nice and I currently thoroughly enjoy it but for many Americans it's an absolute burden.

    --
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