Slashdot Mirror

← Back to Stories (view on slashdot.org)

New Custom Linux Distro is Systemd-Free, Debian-Based, and Optimized for Windows 10 (mspoweruser.com)

Posted by EditorDavid on from the Windows-shopping-at-the-Microsoft-Store dept.

An anonymous reader quotes MSPowerUser: Nearly every Linux distro is already available in the Microsoft Store, allowing developers to use Linux scripting and other tools running on the Windows Subsystem for Linux (WSL). Now another distro has popped up in the Store, and unlike the others it claims to be specifically optimised for WSL, meaning a smaller and more appropriate package with sane defaults which helps developers get up and running faster.

WLinux is based on Debian, and the developer, Whitewater Foundry, claims their custom distro will also allow faster patching of security and compatibility issues that appear from time to time between upstream distros and WSL... Popular development tools, including git and python3, are pre-installed. Additional packages can be easily installed via the apt package management system... A handful of unnecessary packages, such as systemd, have been removed to improve stability and security.
The distro also offers out of the box support for GUI apps with your choice of X client, according to the original submission.

WLinux is open source under the MIT license, and is available for free on GitHub. It can also be downloaded from Microsoft Store at a 50% discount, with the development company promising the revenue will be invested back into new features.

70 of 165 comments (clear)

  1. systemd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

    People actually use systemd?

    1. Re:systemd by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Funny

      And some people like systemd... posting anonymously for a friend.

    2. Re:systemd by fph+il+quozientatore · · Score: 1

      Just the Debian, Ubuntu, Fedora, Arch, Suse, and Red Hat users.

      --
      My first program:

      Hell Segmentation fault

    3. Re:systemd by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 5, Funny

      People actually use systemd?

      Only in Russia. Everywhere else systemd uses you.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    4. Re:systemd by Aighearach · · Score: 1, Interesting

      Well, I'll put my name on that, systemd brings a lot of important features to modern systems, like being able to start network services after a request for the service is received, without dropping the connection or having to have a userspace middleman process that tries to queue as many of these types of requests as it can. The old way sucked hard, the new way with systemd is exactly what we were asking for... 20 years ago.

      Others in the thread were hating on binary logs, but having some structure makes it much much faster for security tools to parse the logs, and for humans, you just run a single command to get an all-text version if you want it; exactly as hard as running cat to get the text listing...

    5. Re:systemd by steveb3210 · · Score: 1

      I've just never had a situation where systemd did anything bad to me. Granted I do development in a rather small hedge fund startup these days (only a few employees) and we just containerize everything - so I don't rely on the underlying OS to do very much for me. Perhaps its a bigger issue for large companies with long time scale infrastructure (I hate the connotation of "legacy" as it makes it seem like old code is bad code, but I digress) that can't leverage containerization.

       

    6. Re:systemd by DCFusor · · Score: 3, Informative

      It mostly messed me up with either custom daemons I wrote that wanted to be autostarted - the initial workarounds required were then broken by further systemd updates, and some other kinda - normal apps...that either didn't update for this, or took awhile to start up, and fell afoul of systemd's "helpful" "we'll keep restarting this till it makes it" behavior (which may be gone, I dunno, I figured out enough of how things work to edit that timeout and write scripts for my stuff).
      Mounting network shares in /etc/fstab was broken, and if something failed to mount, then the system hung on shutdown trying to unmount what had never been mounted. The "don't do that, WONT_FIX" response was an insult, frankly. Now, like magic, that works again - obviously it was my fault all along for pointing out that doing nothing about it would have caused some months of downtime.
      And of course, I don't know what I'm doing with only a few decades of experience in the field. Insulting people isn't how you make friends, but evidently the people doing this don't care.
      TightVNC server, oh boy. Finally solved that one using a variant of XDG autostart, but it took the user home one, not the system one, else endless loop. Conky - just had to give up on that one. I could go on for quite awhile. But it wasted my time, and gave me zero new benefit, and took away my choice, as many crucial apps now not only support it, but depend on it. While insulting me - like many of the pro-systemd comments on this thread. Yeah, that'll work. How about calling us deplorables, that'll win you favor every time. Oh, wait...

      --
      Why guess when you can know? Measure!
    7. Re:systemd by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      Links to bugs, please. Fstab has been working fine since the systemd first version.

    8. Re:systemd by DCFusor · · Score: 2

      Not mounting CIFS or NFS shares. That's the thing - fixing stuff eventually and then pretending it never happened fools some fanboys, but not those who had to keep a fleet of customized machines going. Here's a link to lots of links, that took one second to find:
      https://www.google.com/search?...

      --
      Why guess when you can know? Measure!
    9. Re:systemd by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      Works for me. All the bugs I see in Google are related to race conditions between fstab and DNS resolvers/network.

    10. Re:systemd by DCFusor · · Score: 2

      Try it with wifi on the machine that wants to mount stuff.
      Yes, the very race conditions systemd was supposed to fix cause it to fail. Where without it the fstab mounts would either keep trying or just wait. But I think I made my point - a race condition is a bug...naming it doesn't make it start working. I had 15 users down on that alone, and making them manually mount all this crap wasn't going to fly. Especially on machines that were hard to phsically access that wouldn't reboot remotely because systemd hung them forever on shutdown once it hit this.
      And when I did mount.service type of stuff, that fixed it for awhile, but it's one of the suggested workarounds that then broke again when they fixed the original problem.
      One of the big problems, and not just systemd, is that when something like this breaks and really screws people up, workaround are posted all over the net. A year later, those workarounds might not be the right answer anymore. The rush to cram this crap down our throats made it far worse.

      --
      Why guess when you can know? Measure!
    11. Re:systemd by Cyberax · · Score: 1

      Tried it. It works.

      I fail to see the bugs in systemd, before systemd the boot was so slow that WiFi likely had enough time to negotiate the connection. The fixes are also obvious - add explicit dependencies to fstab unit or use systemd's native dependency tracking.

      Seriously, systemd is not rocket science. Spend a day or two learning it and stop whining.

  2. Re: What's the big deal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Informative

    When a distribution is configured to use systemd it takes the place of initd as the initializing process. It is not something you can simply uninstall. It runs as the first process in the kernel. You have to rebuild the entire distribution to go back to initd.

  3. Devuan rebadge hyped for M$ use? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Because devuan has existed for 4-6 years now and does exactly that.

    1. Re:Devuan rebadge hyped for M$ use? by LVSlushdat · · Score: 1

      Yup.. Devuan is the "cat's meow"... I had been a Debian and Ubuntu user since about 2007, and other distros going back to Slackware in 1994. When Debian (and now Ubuntu) went down the blackhole that is systemd, I decided I was done with those distros. I MUCH prefer a Debian-based distro and Devuan/Ascii fills the bill perfectly...

      --
      THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
  4. The important question by elrous0 · · Score: 1, Troll

    Have its developers adopted the Code of Conduct?

    Because if not, SEXISM!!!!!

    --
    SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    1. Re:The important question by elrous0 · · Score: 1

      It's just a bit hard to take all at once.

      --
      SJW: Someone who has run out of real oppression, and has to fake it.
    2. Re:The important question by Z80a · · Score: 2

      Given the fact they're already using it to commit witch hunts against one or more of the biggest contributors or the project, yes, it's quite bad.
      When dealing with this literal cult, it's not about "you will behave for now", it's about "we gonna check every message you ever sent and if we find something we find offensive, we will hunt you down and kill like a dog".
      This is not about left or right or communism or whatever, it's a literal cult that calls itself the left (when its just a tiny part of the actual left) and ruins the life of everyone that dares not following their exact gospel.

  5. First Linux distro you have to buy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    No thanks. Why install a neutered version on Windows when you can replace Windows itself with something better?

    1. Re:First Linux distro you have to buy by omnichad · · Score: 1

      First Linux distro you have to buy

      Wouldn't that be Red Hat? They also release their source, but they sure aren't the ones offering CentOS.

    2. Re:First Linux distro you have to buy by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      As you figured out by the existence of CentOS, RedHat isn't selling "the distro," they're selling access to their support and network services.

    3. Re:First Linux distro you have to buy by omnichad · · Score: 1

      Red Hat only releases their source, not CentOS.

      As you figured out by the release of this distro, which is available on GitHub as open source, what they are selling is the convenience of a compiled system ready for download in the Windows Store.

      There's no point playing the semantics game on this. None of it makes a significant difference.

    4. Re:First Linux distro you have to buy by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Why install a neutered version on Windows when you can replace Windows itself with something better?

      You can use it as a stepping stone to get familiar with Linux before fully making the switch.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    5. Re: First Linux distro you have to buy by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

      Interix was a product developed by a seperate company (Softway Systems) that Microsoft bought.

    6. Re:First Linux distro you have to buy by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Golly, this looks familiar! Are you sure you're not going in circles?

      If you're just repeating yourself, you probably missed something in between.

      Semantics refers to meaning, BTW. Your word game is only based on repeating a true statement that is not related to the meaning of what you're responding to. You absolutely should stop playing word games, and focus on the semantics instead. That's where the meaning lives. That's where the stuff that flew over your head is still hiding.

    7. Re:First Linux distro you have to buy by omnichad · · Score: 1

      So you're not going to reapply to the part above that? There's a lot of similarities on the business model - both profit from service rather than the code itself. That means this new thing is not the first for-pay distro or that neither are.

  6. Available for FREE or at 50% discount from MS$? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    What the heck are MS trying to do?
    The thing is GPL and available on GitHub...

    What exctly are MS charging for?
    Is that actually allowed onder GPL2?

    1. Re:Available for FREE or at 50% discount from MS$? by Dutch+Gun · · Score: 3, Informative

      WLinux is based on Debian, and the developer, Whitewater Foundry

      It's developed by Whitewater Foundry, not Microsoft. And yes, you can sell GPL software if you also distribute the source.

      https://www.gnu.org/philosophy...

      BTW, I searched for "Linux" on the MS Store, and found five explicitly listed Linux distros (Ubundu, openSuze, Suze Linux Enterprise, Debian, and Kali)... but not WLinux. I had to specifically search for it by name before I found it on the store. I'm not sure why they think anyone would pay $10 for a Linux distro when there are plenty of free and well-known alternatives.

      --
      Irony: Agile development has too much intertia to be abandoned now.
    2. Re:Available for FREE or at 50% discount from MS$? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Interesting

      microsoft isn't the ones setting the price here.. it's the distro packager.. err 'customizer'. microsoft gets their cut of the store sales, however.

      the custom code for the 'distro' is mit licensed, meaning they can charge whatever the fuck they want and they don't even have to give you their code. they could package everything in binaries and tell you to fuck off if you ever asked for more.

      gpl is adhered to, mostly (and with the help of debian repositories since this other distro isn't supplying debian sources themselves), because the distro is only really an installer of debian for wsl with their own (and let's be real here.. MINOR) customizations.

      i see this as some guy's attempt to make a cash grab from the few moronic hypocrites who are militantly against systemd yet run (the even-worse) windows 10.

    3. Re:Available for FREE or at 50% discount from MS$? by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 2

      You're not paying for the distro - that is free on GitHub. You're paying for the button in Windows Store that installs everything for you. Basically, you're paying to save your time. Those other distros work fine, but you need to configure them if you want, say, X to work. If you know how, it's not hard. But many people don't want to waste time figuring that out.

  7. Have they replaced systemd with by devslash0 · · Score: 5, Funny

    windowsd?

    1. Re: Have they replaced systemd with by sound+vision · · Score: 1

      I'd actually like a fully configurable windowsd, that lets you turn off automatic updates for example, I wonder if MS can give us that.

  8. Is this useful? by duke_cheetah2003 · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Running Linux in a Virtual machine under Windows is nothing new. In my opinion, if you're going to run two operating systems together in this fashion, this is the preferred direction to do it, because Linux traditionally runs waaaay better as a guest than Windows does.

    But in the real world, at least my experience, there's not a lot of usefulness to this. It's not like there's anything Linux can do, that Windows cannot do natively. And for the somewhat rare circumstances that a Linux-like utility is needed, like, grep, or perl, or something like that, I've always found cygwin is the best solution for this sort of niche of Linux tools within Windows.

    So is this actually more useful than cygwin?

    1. Re:Is this useful? by thegarbz · · Score: 3, Informative

      It's not a virtual machine. It's also not cygwin. I recommend some research, you may find it useful.

    2. Re:Is this useful? by ortholattice · · Score: 1

      valgrind won't run on Cygwin, unless there has been some recent progress I'm unaware of.

    3. Re:Is this useful? by _merlin · · Score: 1

      It's not a virtual machine. It's also not cygwin.

      The GP realises that - they're asking how it's better than a virtual machine or cygwin.

      I recommend some research, you may find it useful.

      You've added nothing of value - not even a suggestion for where to start researching.

    4. Re:Is this useful? by rtb61 · · Score: 1

      To be honest though, for a Linux system to be considered in reality to be ready for windows anal probe 10 (not attempt to hide my preferences) then it would have to run first and run windows anal probe 10 as the virtual machine and completely control the network connections, creating a hard firewall and allow users to control what windows anal probe 10 sent out or received. So windows 10 as a network application completely blocked from accessing the network but approved apps allowed, so windows anal probe 10 can not insert the probe and start sending out data but steam can load games ;D. You should be able to switch to Linux to 'WWW' at any time whilst the game machine, the windows virtual machine is still running.

      That is when I would consider that Linux is ready for Windows anal probe 10, when it is controlled in a box and not allowed free access to anything.

      --
      Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
    5. Re:Is this useful? by spongman · · Score: 1

      well the distro this article is talking about is a scam. there are much better free alternatives available for WSL...

      however, if you're asking whether or not WSL is better then cygwin, then the answer is clear: absolutely.

      i started using cygwin around 2000, and used it pretty much daily up until a few days after i first installed WSL a year or so ago. i uninstalled it (cygwin) shortly after that.

    6. Re:Is this useful? by spongman · · Score: 1

      it's better than cygwin because it's not a port of user-mode code (eg `grep.exe`). it's a kernel API compatibility layer that runs existing ELF binaries (eg ubuntu's `grep` unchanged). `apt-freaking-get install nginx`, boom! what's not to like?

    7. Re:Is this useful? by spongman · · Score: 1

      > where to start researching

      start->run->wsl

    8. Re:Is this useful? by spongman · · Score: 1

      wsl is targeted towards devs or users who obviously don't have the same level of paranoia about their machines, or have the wherewithal to configure their machines they way they like them.

      it's not for those that see windows as a 'game machine'. lol.

    9. Re:Is this useful? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      You've added nothing of value - not even a suggestion for where to start researching.

      Apologies for typing on a phone. I guess we should all aim to provide something valuable to the discussion. Maybe you should consider doing that yourself sometime.

      But yeah I'll help with some research: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=How+do+I+...

  9. Nearly every distro? Not really... by Tog+Klim · · Score: 5, Informative

    There is an outdated opensuse, and no fedora at all. How about a few distros?

  10. Re:Stop peddling your WSL EEE bait, Microsoft! by LVSlushdat · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Yeah.. Those of us who spent most all of our working life playing a "Windows janitor" and left that shitshow behind when we retired, and now strictly use Linux don't give a rats ass for this bullshit... If EVER I found a need to run Windows, it would only be as a seriously locked down virtual machine, but I really don't see that ever happening.. Come on, say it with me, "FUCK YOU MICROSOFT!" (you KNOW you want to..)

    --
    THANK YOU, Edward Snowden!! Americans owe you a debt of gratitude (whether they know it or not..)
  11. Re: What's the big deal? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 3, Insightful

    They've been difficult to maintain, partly because systemd is now also replacing syslog and publishing logs in a binary, distinct format from the more easily read flat text formats.

  12. Re: What's the big deal? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Gentoo and Funtoo also officially support open-rc at install/build time. I've been perfectly happy with it this way using xfce and plasma.

  13. Re:What's the big deal? by Aighearach · · Score: 2, Interesting

    One of the big things Linux zealots like to yell about is how you only install what you want. How about just don't install systemd? And if you did, just delete it? Seriously, I don't understand.

    Right, you don't understand. The people who come to hate on systemd don't have the technical skills to choose for themselves, because it is OS functionality. And the distros, who employ people who understand that stuff, want the advantages of systemd because they do understand what it is and what it does.

  14. And everyone on slashdot ... by Qbertino · · Score: 1

    ... went like this:

    - 'bladibla without systemd....'

    - yeah! Awesome! No systemd! ...

    - ' .... bladibla ... optimised for Windows 10 ...'

    - 'Oh bummer. Oh well, nevermind.'

    --
    We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
  15. GNU/NT? by jopsen · · Score: 1

    So is this pretty much GNU / NT, maybe it shouldn't be called a linux distribution -- in order news where are the flying pigs? :)

  16. Re: What's the big deal? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

    I believe you've missed my point. My point is that the upstream versions of these tools in most Linux operating systems have switched to systemd based logging, creating or maintaining a non-systemd based system is extra work. Switching away from systemd also means that monitoring tools designed to parse the distinct, binary, format means maintaining distinct, text based monitoring and log analysis tools. This all costs time and, for commercial projects, money.

    "Easy things" that must be done repeatedly and customized, and kept compatible with the often unstable behavior of systemd, are additional work If I may say, one of the tasks that pays my salary is cleaning up after "simple matters of programming" that were badly done, did not report errors, did not catch edge cases, and which the author intended should simply be modified on the fly as needed. But then the author neglected to state what they were doing, and the API between one tool and another were never documented, and chaos occurred when those "simple matters of programming" interacted very badly. This has been occurring especially often lately with the Python 2 to Python 3 upgrades occurring in various operating systems. Stable tools, _including log analysis tools for systemd_, broke silently.

  17. Re: What's the big deal? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 2

    I'd especially like to see any code that would publish log reports to an analysis database, and how they handle logs with punctuation and MySQL commands embedded in them. I'm thinking of the XKCD cartoon titled "Exploits of a Mom", at https://xkcd.com/327/

  18. Re: What's the big deal? by ISayWeOnlyToBePolite · · Score: 1

    They've been difficult to maintain, partly because systemd is now also replacing syslog and publishing logs in a binary, distinct format from the more easily read flat text formats.

    Rsyslog replaced syslog about a decade ago and afaik there is no distro without it in the default install.

  19. Re: What's the big deal? by Antique+Geekmeister · · Score: 1

    That is a good point. The configurations are still very similar, as is the format. My career predates rsyslogd by long enough that I still think "syslog" as the format, much as I think of "apache" rather than the technically correct "httpd" software name of the software.

  20. Question? by no-body · · Score: 1

    Will that silly shutdown ritual then go away?

    This routine sucks! Waiting for<ever>.... I resort to # init 0, which seems to go quicker.
    Dunno which brainchild this was. When I am done, I am done and want to go - this thing takes forever, seemingly several minutes with countdown displayed.
    Who originated this nonsense?

  21. Re:Nearly every distro? Not really... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    No nearly about it. Head over to distrowatch.com, and then count how many of the ones listed there (feel free to restrict it to actively developed ones) are available are available to run under WSL.

  22. Re: What's the big deal? by ISayWeOnlyToBePolite · · Score: 1

    That is a good point. The configurations are still very similar, as is the format. My career predates rsyslogd by long enough that I still think "syslog" as the format, much as I think of "apache" rather than the technically correct "httpd" software name of the software.

    Do you know of any distro that has removed flat text logs in favor of binary logs?

  23. Re: What's the big deal? by SirCowMan · · Score: 1

    Can't speak for the third fellow, but yes. It is great.

    --
    !Equality through palindromes semordnilap hguorht ytilauqE!
  24. Every Linux distro is available in the MS Store? by najajomo · · Score: 1

    "Nearly every Linux distro is already available in the Microsoft Store"

    None of which will run as full stand-alone distros. SuSE Linux, Kali & Debian does not count as nearly every Linux distro. Here's a real link to every Linix Distro

  25. Re: Available for FREE or at 50% discount from MS$ by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It is a clever move. Look at audio/video support, look at 3D graphics support etc. If it takes off among Windows users, it would allow for him to provide a distro that âoejust worksâ in terms of desktop Windows integration.

    As long as his code doesnâ(TM)t pollute upstream projects itâ(TM)s a business model that will help people port/test/compile their traditionally Windows-only software for Linux - one day maybe even games...

  26. Didn't think WSL used any init system at all by caseih · · Score: 1

    Last time I ran Ubuntu under WSL it didn't use any init system at all. No upstart, no systemd. It's similar to how wine works. Wine does not actually go through a windows startup routine when you fire it up to run a program. Instead of creates an environment and spawns the executable.

    Unless my Windows 10 install is hopelessly out of date (it could be), running a linux binary under WSL shows just 2 processes: init and the binary. And the init process is just something in the WSL emulation layer; it's not upstart or systemd.

    So I guess I'm confused about this announcement. It's like how they advertise margarine as gluten free.

  27. Re:Nearly every distro? Not really... by spongman · · Score: 1

    you can add your own... go for it!

  28. Re:Windows 10 and systemd? by spongman · · Score: 1

    no, that's the thing, ubuntu on wsl doesn't use systemd. and it's free.

  29. Re: Every Linux distro is available in the MS Stor by spongman · · Score: 1

    probably more accurate to say 'the distros used by nearly all linux users are already available in the Microsoft Store".

  30. Re:Having it as an OPTION does not count. by Arashi256 · · Score: 1

    It's absolutely the default in CentOS 7.

  31. Re: What's the big deal? by vovin · · Score: 1

    Suse 15 does not install rsyslog by default.

  32. Re:What's the big deal? by Aighearach · · Score: 1

    If you think building something new "shits on" all of history simply by containing intended improvements, you're an idiot.

    Even if I thought the software sucked, you'd still be a dumbfuck who doesn't know why they hate it, and lists reasons that are measurable and untrue.

  33. SysV by ebvwfbw · · Score: 1

    Hey, let's party like it's 1999!
    I'll fire up some VMS, Tru-64, Solaris, hey - some BSD! Drive to the party in a Corvair. Let's get this party rolling!

  34. Re:Stop peddling your WSL EEE bait, Microsoft! by shutdown+-p+now · · Score: 1

    If nobody cares, why are you so incensed about it?

  35. riiiight by sad_ · · Score: 1

    because when you run linux on windows wsl your main concerns are stability and security!
    i would say systemd should be nowhere on the top of your list of issues in that setup.

    --
    On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
  36. Can we get a native version please? by JustNiz · · Score: 1

    I love everything in the title just not the Windows 10 part.