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Panasonic Completing 3 New Cell Production Lines At Tesla's Gigafactory (arstechnica.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Ars Technica: In a Tuesday interview with Bloomberg, the head of Panasonic's Automotive Division said that the company was on track to complete an additional three battery-cell production lines at Tesla's Nevada Gigafactory before the end of this year. That puts the expansion ahead of schedule for completion. Panasonic is a joint owner of the Gigafactory. The company provides the "2170" battery cells that go into a Model 3 battery pack. Tesla packages those cells to complete the pack. In the interview, Panasonic automotive executive Yoshio Ito told Bloomberg that "the bottleneck for Model 3 production has been our batteries." Ito added, "they just want us to make as many as possible."
In short, more battery cells rolling off more lines at the Gigafactory are good for Model 3 production only if the manufacturing process gets smoother. There's evidence that this is happening, as the company was able to sell more than 28,000 Model 3s in the second quarter of 2018, albeit at the slight expense of Model S and Model X production. The three new Panasonic lines will bring the number of cell-producing lines up to 13, Bloomberg wrote. Ito told the news service that Tesla is currently using all of its Gigafactory capacity to produce vehicle batteries, despite initially planning to reserve 30 percent of its capacity to build stationary storage batteries like Powerwalls and Powerpacks. That has played out in long-delayed Powerwall installations.
In short, more battery cells rolling off more lines at the Gigafactory are good for Model 3 production only if the manufacturing process gets smoother. There's evidence that this is happening, as the company was able to sell more than 28,000 Model 3s in the second quarter of 2018, albeit at the slight expense of Model S and Model X production. The three new Panasonic lines will bring the number of cell-producing lines up to 13, Bloomberg wrote. Ito told the news service that Tesla is currently using all of its Gigafactory capacity to produce vehicle batteries, despite initially planning to reserve 30 percent of its capacity to build stationary storage batteries like Powerwalls and Powerpacks. That has played out in long-delayed Powerwall installations.
better check
It looks like they'll supply every EV with batteries from the Panasonic Gigafactory.
EV future secured.
Short short short! Tesla's going down, right? Musk is a crazy fraud, right? This could be your last chance!
"Who the hell is Nietzche? It's a question stupid people are asking." -- Newscaster, "Jesus Christ Supercop"
Most everything (for a long time) used/uses 18650 battery cells which are 18mm in diameter and 65mm in height. 21700 battery cells (AKA "2170") are 21mm in diameter, 70mm in height and only made specifically for electric vehicles.
TL;DR: image comparison.
Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
We just had a Musk/SEC/Fraud thread, so I checked in here and was amazed to see about 7 posts and not one yet called Musk delusional. The haters are off their game I guess.
What I would like to know is:
1. Will the Model S and Model X ever get a retrofit to the 2170 battery type? What are the economics of this? Is there a reason now not to do it?
2. Is Tesla planning on selling these batteries to other EV makers?
3. How much of the production of the Gigafactory allocated to the Model 3 verses the power wall product?
We just had a Musk/SEC/Fraud thread, so I checked in here and was amazed to see about 7 posts and not one yet called Musk delusional. The haters are off their game I guess.
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Calling people "haters" is a childishly simple-minded response to a situation that is far from black and white.
I watched the entire Rogan : Musk interview, and I don't think Musk is delusional, but I do think Musk is full of himself in a way that would cause some people to dislike him. Musk exudes the sort of arrogance that can literally cause some people to want to beat a person up. It's painfully obvious that Musk is _all about Musk_ despite all Musk's bullshit posing about "saving the planet".
I didn't hear one single thing during that interview that made me believe Musk is some kind of amazing genius. Musk is obviously well read, but I don't think he is nearly the genius that some people seem to think he is. I'd match wits with Musk any time, and I know a number of other people who could do so as well.
Musk is a skilled bullshitter and he can make himself appear to be a person who knows everything about everything, but if you have a good command of the subject Musk is discussing, it quickly becomes apparent that Musk is a person who has "book knowledge" which makes him appear to be an expert when the truth is that he is not.
Musk has repeatedly displayed VERY poor judgement, and two examples that come to mind are Musk calling the cave rescue guy a "pedo" and Musk's tweet about taking Tesla private. It's not clear if Musk has a self-destructive streak or if Musk simply has poor impulse control. It IS clear that Musk has serious issues relative to narcissism and his own ego and that he will lash out at people he perceives have insulted him, when a person who has better self-control might wisely choose not to comment at all.
Musk is a scam artist. PayPal was and is a business that smart people choose to avoid. Tesla cars are toys for rich posers, made by a company which is owned by a rich poser. I suspect the Space X stuff will fall by the wayside when Musk finds something else that amuses him. The tunnel thing was just a rich guy playing with big toys rich guys can afford.
I think Dean Kamen has done more for the world than Musk has done. Kamen created a portable dialysis machine that changed the lives of many people for the better. Musk has done no such thing.
If you are going to respond to what I wrote, at least make the effort to write something that is not childish.
He's already had the FBI look at him 5+ times, including right before this confirmation.
It's almost like Democrats want to waste time and delay this thing until January. Now only if they hadn't shit the bed when they used the "nuclear option" and remove the cloture vote filibuster for judicial nominations...
1) A shit load of welded/soldered connections to manage, which probably adds to the resistance of the final pack by some non-trivial amount.
2) Lots of smaller cells, each individually packaged, then packaged in a larger module and that module incorporated into the final pack. That sounds like the ratio of weight of packaging to weight of electrochemical material is pretty bad.
The situation with the new larger 2170 batteries is a bit better, especially on the total current output. But the issue with so many connections and total weight of packaging still seems high.
Can any one give me technical reasons why small cylindrical cells like this would be superior to pouch or prismatic cells? I always assumed that a good car battery would resemble the form factor of car starter batteries, big rectilinear shapes putting out decent voltage but a shit-load of amps. The only advantage I can think of for the cylindrical format is ease of roll to roll manufacturing. But even there, unless there is some problem with bigger cells (dielectric breakdown at higher amps maybe?) a larger cylindrical form would be better wouldn't it?
I need a wheelchair van for my son. Help me get the word out. https://www.gofundme.com/wheelchair-van-for-jj
Panasonic automotive executive Yoshio Ito told Bloomberg that "the bottleneck for Model 3 production has been our batteries."
Though I cannot rule it out since I don't work there, I very much doubt that battery production is the bottleneck. It's not as if their intended production volumes are some sort of secret so if they didn't ramp up battery production to match the expected production schedule then Tesla management is be far dumber than the evidence would suggest unless there was some sort of unexpected resource constraint. I know Tesla tends to operate fast and loose but not building enough production capacity for one of the key components of the product would be insane.
It's almost like the Rethuglicans decided to refuse to even have hearings on Merrick Garland, had the Russians hack the 2016 election, and we shouldn't even be talking about this incompetent rapist, because President Clinton should be making this appointment.
And at this point, it's very clear that not only does "Bart O'Kavanaugh" belong on the SCOTUS, he needs to be impeached and removed from his current position, and hopefully since Maryland doesn't have a statute of limitations on sexual assault, imprisoned for his crimes.
1. Will the Model S and Model X ever get a retrofit to the 2170 battery type? What are the economics of this? Is there a reason now not to do it?
I would guess they'll probably do it whenever they do a major refresh of those vehicles. Changing the supply chain and production system for such a major component would be expensive so it's unlikely they would have enough retrofit business to justify the cost. Right now Tesla needs to focus on getting to profitability with their Model 3 before they worry about stuff like retrofits.
2. Is Tesla planning on selling these batteries to other EV makers?
Hard to say but my guess would be eventually yes provided that they can establish some sort of sustainable advantage in battery production/cost as well as excess capacity. Right now I imagine they are using as many as they can produce internally and will be for some time to come if the company continues to grow.
3. How much of the production of the Gigafactory allocated to the Model 3 verses the power wall product?
I think the answer is obviously mostly for the cars at present. Can't give percentages but sales in their solar and storage division was about 10% of company revenue so presumably the answer is something close to 90/10.