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Trump Administration Prepares a Major Weakening of Mercury Emissions Rules (nytimes.com)

The Trump administration has completed a detailed legal proposal to dramatically weaken a major environmental regulation covering mercury, a toxic chemical emitted from coal-burning power plants, The New York Times reports, citing a person familiar with the matter. From the report: The proposal would not eliminate the mercury regulation entirely, but it is designed to put in place the legal justification for the Trump administration to weaken it and several other pollution rules, while setting the stage for a possible full repeal of the rule. Andrew Wheeler, a former coal lobbyist who is now the acting administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency, is expected in the coming days to send the proposal to the White House for approval. The move is the latest, and one of the most significant, in the Trump administration's steady march of rollbacks of Obama-era health and environmental regulations on polluting industries, particularly coal. The weakening of the mercury rule -- which the E.P.A. considers the most expensive clean air regulation ever put forth in terms of annual cost to industry -- would represent a major victory for the coal industry. Mercury is known to damage the nervous systems of children and fetuses.

20 of 266 comments (clear)

  1. do I just hang out on lefty sites by queBurro · · Score: 5, Insightful

    or is this man truly evil?

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    sag
    1. Re:do I just hang out on lefty sites by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      or is this man truly evil?

      I would rather say that the American electorate is hopelessly utterly stupid. You get what you vote for, pollutants and all.

    2. Re:do I just hang out on lefty sites by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 5, Insightful

      A real estate mogul who defrauded people with his "deals" and "university". Then hired guys to run his campaign who stole money. And now he wants to give people nerve damage.

      You live in a sick world where you think poisoning people with mercury is a good thingl.

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      Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
    3. Re:do I just hang out on lefty sites by Freischutz · · Score: 2, Insightful

      or is this man truly evil?

      Kind of, but it’s more like the definition of what is conservative and right wing has shifted so far to the right into fringe lunatic country that what counted as stuffy, conservative and right of center in the Reagan era has now become the center left. I think John Boehner kind of summed it up: There is no Republican Party, there is only a Trump Party, the Republican Party is off taking a nap somewhere”. I would add that the Trump Party is a lunatic convention, it sure as hell is not kind of generally rational conservative party I grew up with.

    4. Re:do I just hang out on lefty sites by houghi · · Score: 1, Insightful

      This is nothing. The next one will be worse.

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      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    5. Re:do I just hang out on lefty sites by houghi · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I do believe that many did not so much voted for Trump, but against established politicians.
      The problem is that you have a two party system, so that was their only option. I live in Belgium and have a multi-party system.
      First this means more choise for the people and more negotiations for the politicians. That excludes extreme measurements.

      Once in a while, politicians are politicians and then some protest party will rise and get enough votes to get elected. They will be a minority, but still a very strong signal to all political parties that they are doing something wrong. They will adapt and most of the time those parties will devolve into nothingness.
      They are often parties with a limited interest in things and might say upfront they will not vote on certain subjects. e.g. only voting on environment, but not on defense issues. Or privacy (thing The Pirate Party)

      They are a sort of political valve. Sometimes these parties grow and stay (e.g. the green parties)

      These type of voters have no where to go in the USofA.

      Now for the bad news. They still have nowhere to go. As long as you have the two-party system where winner takes all, do not expect it to improve. The US is going to a Feudal system where the CEOs are the new Kings who divide the plebs among themselves.

      When you look at history, the fact that people had anything to say at all is an anomaly.

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      Don't fight for your country, if your country does not fight for you.
    6. Re:do I just hang out on lefty sites by GameboyRMH · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Whats next, letting car's take off their catalitic converters so they can double their gas mileage?

      Catalytic converters actually have a miniscule effect on gas mileage.

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      "When information is power, privacy is freedom" - Jah-Wren Ryel
    7. Re:do I just hang out on lefty sites by jellomizer · · Score: 1, Insightful

      That is my thoughts as well. I like to consider myself a moderate (with actually leaning slightly to the right), who really doesn't like to judge politicians just because they have an R or a D representing their party.

      However the Trump Administration seems to be reaching into comic book villainy. If an idea seems too stupid to be real, I try to do further fact checking, and I keep on finding that they are really just that stupid.

      It seems for me to find a "middle ground" I seem to have to reach to what I consider far right resources, and their arguments are rather specious and overly simplistic, compared to the overall complexity of the situation.

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      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  2. He's not evil, he just doesn't give a shit by Viol8 · · Score: 4, Insightful

    He's 72, so before any of the shit hits the fan with any force he'll probably be dead so what does he care? He'll just make sure his cronies in the oil and coal industries are happy with their backhanders then he'll retire to his golf course. Meanwhile the world could well be left picking up the pieces of his idiotic enviromental policies for decades to come when he's just a footnote in history books.

  3. The question is .... by skovnymfe · · Score: 1, Insightful

    How do we keep all the coal emissions inside of the USA? They can emission all they want, just so long as they keep it to themselves. Dirty motherfuckers.

  4. I am not defending him but ... by jgfenix · · Score: 5, Insightful
    Past a certain level if you want to reduce some contaminants the increase in cost can be exponential. So before having an opinion I would like to know is:

    What is the current limit? Is it reasonable? What is the cost? What is the new limit, it's cost, it's impact?

    Discussing this without knowing the specifics is an empty talk about how evil they are. We could have much more environmental friendly products if you are willing to pay 5000 for what now you pay 100 so it's important to establish a reasonable limit.

    1. Re:I am not defending him but ... by Impy+the+Impiuos+Imp · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Not a single post so far tearing at it is anything but an emotional attack.

      Yet suggest this might have been over-regulation and you'd get a downmod. Make a minor observation that regulation can be abused for "donations" to back off, and hooo boy.

      "That'll learn him for talking about motivations instead of the science!" he said as he clicked the downmod button and then created a 4 paragraph screed at how evil Trump's real motivation was.

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      (-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
    2. Re:I am not defending him but ... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      And aside from that, it's halfway through the article that the word "could" is introduced, showing that the article is based on speculation about something that "could" happen if this proposal goes through.

      If the Trump administration does something that causes a "major weakening" of something the Obama administration put into place, then that means the Obama administration did a "major strengthening" of it -- which is apparent right in the summary: "which the E.P.A. considers the most expensive clean air regulation ever put forth in terms of annual cost to industry".

      I'm all for a cleaner environment, and if companies have been able to adjust for the Obama administration's policies, there may be no reason to dial anything back. I look forward to a time when we've shifted to mostly renewable energy sources. However, this article sounds like it's really being written as yet another attack on President Trump based on speculation. If the proposal goes through, and then is used to turn back the Obama administration's policies, then I'll admit the article was accurate. Especially if returning to pre-Obama mercury outputs destroys the world.

  5. I guess now that it is inevitable by bobstreo · · Score: 3, Insightful

    new rules like:

    "Lead, it makes paint better, and your car happier.'

    'Asbestos, high in fiber and fire retardants."

  6. It's not just you by sjbe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    or is this man truly evil?

    Trump is easily the worst person (competence, morals, decency, empathy, etc - pick your measure) to get to the office of president in my lifetime and I'm old enough to have lived during Nixon's administration. He surrounds himself with people who are somehow if anything worse in a lot of ways. There are prominent republicans who I respect and think could be good presidents even if I don't necessarily agree with their policy positions on a given topic. Trump is not even close to among them. I thought Bush Jr was a terrible president but I'd take him in a heartbeat over Trump. Reagan or Bush Sr would be a huge upgrade. Heck I'd happily take McCain (even with Palin) or Romney who I think were both competent and fundamentally decent people. No I'm not arguing the Democrats were notably better (they weren't) but literally every other president or candidate for either party in the last half centry would be an improvement over Trump.

  7. Show the evidence by sjbe · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Yet suggest this might have been over-regulation and you'd get a downmod.

    Present some actual evidence to support such a position and maybe you might get some thoughtful consideration. So far every suggestion of "over regulation" is really just an ideological statement rather than an evidence based consideration of the facts. Not all regulation is bad, particularly when it comes to toxic substances. Every bit of evidence points to this mostly being a needless handout to various industries (most notably coal) for financial gain of a few at the expense of the health and welfare of the many.

    1. Re:Show the evidence by Mr+Foobar · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Not all regulation is bad, particularly when it comes to toxic substances. Every bit of evidence points to this mostly being a needless handout to various industries (most notably coal) for financial gain of a few at the expense of the health and welfare of the many.

      I work in IT for one of the most heavily over-regulated industries in this country, the medical laboratory. No one is giving our industry any easement of the regulation on us, and frankly we don't want it. We *thrive* on our regulation. It's good for us. There is almost no corner of our industry that doesn't have some regulation hanging over it, and even the industries we contract with to service our industry are also themselves heavily regulated. It gives a nice high cost threshold to any company trying to enter it. Sure, we could make barrels more cash without the regulation, but we'd also have a lot more competition.

      We see our regulation as a challenge, not a burden. Why can't the coal industry?

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      -> I dislike sigs...
    2. Re:Show the evidence by Nidi62 · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Coal can be shifted away from with the correct political will......Coal is a dying industry and they know it.

      "My grandpappy was a coal miner, my daddy was a coal miner, I'm a coal miner, and dammit, my children will be coal miners even if it kills 'em....which between mine accidents, black lung disease, and general lifestyle it probably will!"

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      The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
  8. Re:*COUGH* by RatPh!nk · · Score: 3, Insightful

    This is sooo vital to point out. Especially in the West (a Judeo/Christian society), we are taught and culturally have a very specific notion of what "evil" is, such that we have trouble seeing it when it actually is staring us in the face. I think of serial killer neighbors "He was such a good neighbor" or as mentioned in the book about those who perpetrated the Holocaust. "How could they seem so normal". Because many were imaging pitchforks and tails and hooves and got company men who were "doing his job" and "following the law" and "serving their country" etc....

    I am not drawing any conclusions about anyone in particular here, just noting that evil is often missed and not what we think it is....

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    Argh. The laws of science be a harsh mistress.
  9. Profit motives are dangerous by sjbe · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I work in IT for one of the most heavily over-regulated industries in this country, the medical laboratory.

    I've worked in labs in years past and my wife is a laboratory director of a pathology lab. I disagree that medical labs are "heavily over regulated". Labs are regulated to the degree they are for VERY good reasons and we've seen what happens when they aren't. The data they produce and the means they use to produce it has to be as reliable as we can make and market pressures are demonstrably inadequate to make that happen. The regulations that are in place ensure corners are not cut that should not be cut. That's not an argument that every regulation is a good one but just an observation that labs that are well run mostly are already doing the things that the regulations require anyway aside from a bit of extra documentation to prove it. But without this requirement the temptation of profit motives would rapidly overwhelm some people and we would all suffer in the long run as a result.

    We see our regulation as a challenge, not a burden. Why can't the coal industry?

    Because they have made a crap ton of money being comparatively unregulated and would like to continue to make more and there is no mechanism for accountability. In a medical lab if you screw up a specimen, that error is generally immediately traceable back to the lab and liability follows. But without regulation the volume of corner cutting would rapidly overwhelm the ability of the legal system to deal with the problem. Not to mention that liability is a post-hoc solution which doesn't help people already injured. There is no such feedback mechanism in place for the coal industry generally speaking and putting them in place makes them FAR less financially competitive than they are now. (that's probably a good thing but they obviously don't see it that way) They've gotten a free ride for years not having to pay for the full cost of the pollution they generate so it's hardly shocking that it's a real life tragedy of the commons.