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Tesla Produced Over 80,000 Cars In Third Quarter, Beating Estimates (electrek.co)

Posted by BeauHD on from the keep-em-coming dept.

An anonymous reader quotes a report from Electrek: Tesla has now confirmed the official record production numbers of 80,000 vehicles. The automaker has also confirmed Q3 deliveries of 83,500 vehicles. Yesterday, Electrek reported the production numbers, which Tesla has now confirmed to be exactly 53,239 Model 3 vehicles and 26,903 Model S and X vehicles. Tesla elaborated on the Model 3 production ramp-up: "During Q3, we transitioned Model 3 production from entirely rear wheel drive at the beginning of the quarter to almost entirely dual motor during the last few weeks of the quarter. This added significant complexity, but we successfully executed this transition and ultimately produced more dual motor than rear wheel drive cars in Q3. In the last week of the quarter, we produced over 5,300 Model 3 vehicles, almost all of which were dual motor, meaning that we achieved a production rate of more than 10,000 drive units per week." Tesla delivered a total of 83,500 vehicles during the third quarter: 55,840 Model 3, 14,470 Model S, and 13,190 Model X.

Here's what Tesla had to say about the Model 3 deliveries: "Our Q3 Model 3 deliveries were limited to higher-priced variants, cash/loan transactions, and North American customers only. There remain significant opportunities to grow the addressable market for Model 3 by introducing leasing, standard battery and other lower-priced variants of the car, and by starting international deliveries."

82 of 172 comments (clear)

  1. Re:Propaganda by Narcocide · · Score: 1

    Consider the possibility that everything is still going according to plan.

  2. I would buy one... by planckscale · · Score: 1, Offtopic

    ...But my 2007 4 cylinder Honda Accord costs me under $1300 to operate per year (not including insurance). How many years would it take me not filling up for $80/month and 2 oil changes/year for ($100) to break even the purchase of a Model 3 plus tax, title, license, and registration?

    --
    Namaste
    1. Re:I would buy one... by rukiddingme · · Score: 1

      Wait, are you saying your operating expenses on a 10 year old car with no outstanding car loan are less than the purchase price of a new 30k car?!?! Who woulda thought that!?!? More breaking news at 10!!

    2. Re: I would buy one... by planckscale · · Score: 1

      Answering questions with questions? Ok? Did I buy the car used from a indian dude in Thousand Oaks? Doesn't US produce most US gasoline these days? Does buying 40 trees from the Arbor Society offset my carbon production enough or should I buy more?

      --
      Namaste
    3. Re:I would buy one... by zlives · · Score: 1

      where is this 30k tesla?!!!

    4. Re:I would buy one... by worldthinker · · Score: 1

      umm. Seriously?

      Take a look at the average repair list for your make/model.

      https://repairpal.com/cars/hon...

    5. Re:I would buy one... by saloomy · · Score: 1, Informative

      No, sorry. they don't.

    6. Re: I would buy one... by Rei · · Score: 3, Insightful

      I note that people only go into "but what about the mining!" rants when talking about EV batteries, and not.... literally everything else they consume which is also made out of mined products. E.g. why should we give a rat's arse whether we use nickel in the form of stainless steel or in the form of the nickel oxides that make up the lion's share of an EV cathode? Why shouldn't we care about other mined products like platinium for catalytic converters (you don't need much, but it's mined in hundreds of ppb/low ppm quantities after stripping vast quantities of overburden) and the like? Heck, if you want to look for low impact mining, it's pretty dang hard to beat salar lithium. Really... why are the steel, alumium, vanadium, manganese, molybdenum, silicon, chromium, magnesium, etc etc in the ICEs considered irrelevant?

      And as for cobalt - the element that's been dwindling in EV batteries - even in Congo, 80% of it is mined in mines run by international conglomerates, to modern standards, and of the artisinal mining, most is just villagers mining their own land; the concern is over a minority of a minority of mining in a single country. And even that is irrelevant - not because western companies generally have procedures in place to prevent buying artisinal cobalt (it's generally purchased by less scrupulous buyers, such as in China), but because this article about Tesla, and Tesla has historically acquired most of its cobalt from Canada.

      The mass of a Model 3 is is about the same as its performance equivalents from BMW. The mass of "stuff" that makes it up is about the same as the mass of "stuff" that makes up the BMW. Why are we supposed to freak out about one but not the other?

      --
      "Close the door! What, were you born in a barn?" -- Police chief, "Jesus Christ Supercop"
    7. Re:I would buy one... by Rei · · Score: 4, Informative

      You realize that Sandy Munroe, the guy you're citing, later changed his mind and called the vehicle a symphony of engineering, among other high praise? Literally stated "I have to eat crow" concerning his earlier analysis (aka what you linked)

      --
      "Close the door! What, were you born in a barn?" -- Police chief, "Jesus Christ Supercop"
    8. Re:I would buy one... by jezwel · · Score: 2

      If you define successful as selling all your products at a loss, then yes - Tesla is successful.

      Their financial statements are quite clear in that the raw cost of building their cars is less than the income from selling those cars. All the other stuff that's dragging them into the red is the problem, and the reports are not granular enough to determine if each car made is sold at a loss because of other costs like general overheads (a separate line item), whether the expenditure on assembly lines upgrades/installs is dragging it down (no idea where this is represented), or the loss comes from other areas that are car related (like supercharger stations) but not specific to building a car.
      It's specious to say that they are selling their cars at a loss though...unless you know more detail about the financial statements released?

    9. Re:I would buy one... by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      from the article "Talking in the video above with John McElroy of Autoline, Munro says they’re now eating crow at his outfit. "

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    10. Re: I would buy one... by Barsteward · · Score: 1

      you should then run the environmental damage an ICE does from prospecting for oil, digging it up, transporting it, refining it, transporting it again and then burning the end result in a side by side comparison with the environmental damage of an EV in its process. Then also do a comparison of the recycling of said products.

      --
      "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
    11. Re: I would buy one... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      No, you focus on Tesla because you like to think of yourselves as dead clever: "oooh, you may *think* you're helping your planet with your EV, but LET ME TELL YOU, you are in fact not, because look at the brilliance of my logic as I tell you about mining impacts and how did you know that electricity is made out of oil?"

      This performance convinces you and makes you feel good. But it's fairly shitty for the world, in terms of the damage it does to civil discourse, the fact that you slow the adoption of EVs, the link between it and all the other pseudo-scientific bullshit arguments that are convincing to far too many people (disputing evolution, disputing climate change, misunderstanding the science about physical and other differences between men and women, rape myths, etc etc). I wish you'd just take up more extensive and vigorous masturbation instead.

    12. Re:I would buy one... by bgarcia · · Score: 1

      The complete reversal and over the top priase, doesn't at all smell like money changed hands.

      Oh, money changed hands all right. But it didn't involve Tesla.

      UBS (an investment company that has been consistently anti-Tesla) paid Munro Associates to perform the Model 3 teardown. Munro's initial impression of the Model 3 was prior to the teardown, and they rightfully focused on the car's poor fit and finish. But after completing the teardown and realizing just how inexpensive the car would be to manufacture, Munro had to "eat crow", and publicly, otherwise his company would look foolish and it would hurt his business in the long run.

      But then some "unknown entity" sued Munro over his latest "Model 3 is insanely profitable" pronouncement. It's pretty clear to everybody that the unknown entity is UBS. This didn't fit in with their narrative on the Tesla Model 3. Shortly afterwards, UBS put out their own hastily-organized teardown analysis of the Tesla Model 3, stating that it is unprofitable. By that point, a second teardown analysis by a German firm confirmed Munro's finding that the Model 3 will be profitable.

      --
      I'm a leaf on the wind. Watch how I soar.
  3. Re:Incomplete data, bad news. by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 2

    Coincidentally, this came out today.

    --
    Ezekiel 23:20
  4. 10 year old? by gerald.edward.butler · · Score: 1

    2007 would be an 11 or 12 year old car. 2007 models hit the "showroom" in summer of 2006 usually.

  5. Amolst every sector is up by Tablizer · · Score: 2, Informative

    The economy is running hot right now such that most products are selling above average.

    (Since it's likely to come up, as far as the political credit for the economy, the "tax-cut stimulus" did help, but also jacked up debt. It's counter-Keynesian, which is bad my book. Pay down debt during up-times and save the stimuli for slumps.)

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
    1. Re:Amolst every sector is up by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Amolst every sector is up

      Except for bloody spell-checker and re-edit button makers (grumble grumble)

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    2. Re:Amolst every sector is up by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      The auto industry is actually hurting this year.

      It appears to be caused by three factors:

      1. Higher interest rates make auto loans more difficult
      2. Uber/Lyft
      3. Newer cars last longer, so replacement rates have slowed

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    3. Re: Amolst every sector is up by deathguppie · · Score: 1

      The economy is scaling just like it has been for the last 6-8 years. The only real difference is the debt, which is what he's complaining about.

      --
      once more into the breach
    4. Re: Amolst every sector is up by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      It's not just the existence of debt that bothers me, it's the anti-plan the administration has to deal with it: Reverse Keynes.

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      Table-ized A.I.
    5. Re: Amolst every sector is up by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      He literally only made a claim that our corporate taxes are much lower than those in US. It's a fact that they are. It takes an utterly ignorant nutjob to deny something you can double check with a single question asked from google.

      Fun detail: just a few years ago, my native country of Finland and neighbouring Sweden were engaged in small tax war when we lowered our corporate tax rate from 24,5% to 20% which is below theirs, and a few years later, they lowered theirs as they saw clear loss of companies moving to Finland due to lower taxation.

      Back then, comparable US tax was around 35%.

    6. Re:Amolst every sector is up by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Blame? Not entirely, but they contribute to an already bad problem. Just because it's already bad is not a license to make it worse.

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      Table-ized A.I.
    7. Re: Amolst every sector is up by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      We lowered our tax in 2014. Sweden followed up a year or two later. Ignorance of reality is a common theme for Trump's critics that argue about specifics of his economics macro level policies.

  6. Re:Propaganda by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The shorts made money today. Stock is down again. They are gonna make even more when the financial report show the massive amount of money they lost on each car.

  7. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The ford Model A was a bargain basement model. Tesla are hardly aiming at that market segment.

    Go here : here and click on August and see how they are doing relative to similarly priced models today.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  8. Sitting on lots by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

    Also, coincidentally, a story came out today about thousands of Tesla Model 3s sitting in parking lots all over the place.

    https://www.dailymail.co.uk/ne...

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:Sitting on lots by Tablizer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      It may be like when Scientology purchased tons of "Dianetics" books to get on the best-seller lists. (Ok, allegedly, don't come after me, please.)

      --
      Table-ized A.I.
    2. Re:Sitting on lots by Rei · · Score: 1

      Guess they tricked InsideEV's independent count, too. And made everyone helping with the deliveries hallucinate a huge volume of vehicles going through the delivery centres. Sneaky, sneaky Tesla.

      --
      "Close the door! What, were you born in a barn?" -- Police chief, "Jesus Christ Supercop"
    3. Re:Sitting on lots by Rei · · Score: 1

      1) Lol, Daily Mail ;)

      2) The shorts have been pushing their "See, there's cars in lots, therefore there's no demand and they're just building to throw them away!" conspiracy theory every week since June. They never really caught on to the concept of a staging yard for shipping.

      3) They cite under a thousand cars spotted. But Tesla has over 8000 cars in transit right now, according to the quarterly delivery figures. The "Shorty Airforce" needs to do a better job, they missed nearly 9 in every 10 cars in transit.

      --
      "Close the door! What, were you born in a barn?" -- Police chief, "Jesus Christ Supercop"
    4. Re:Sitting on lots by PopeRatzo · · Score: 1

      1) Lol, Daily Mail ;)

      Breitbart is reporting the same story. So is the New York Times. So is Fox, and CNN. Forbes, Wall Street Journal too.

      Is it a vast bipartisan conspiracy against Elon Musk?

      --
      You are welcome on my lawn.
  9. Interested to see the long-term quality by crgrace · · Score: 1, Interesting

    I have a coworker who is from the former USSR. His take on Tesla is that the current output is gonna suck and warranty repair is going to eat them alive. He tells me that at the end of the fiscal year often factories would be under pressure in the USSR to up their output, and no one wanted what they made (which wasn't actually good quality to begin with).

    I have a good friend who just got a Model 3 a few weeks ago. She needs warranty service (not Tesla's fault in this case, a pinecone fell on the car and smashed the roof glass) and can't get an appointment for months. Not sure if this is a lack of spare parts or if they are flooded with warranted work. By the way, she let me drive the car and it is a LOT of fun.

    1. Re:Interested to see the long-term quality by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      That depends on what the pine cone was made of. An ornamental gold pine cone might be more damaging, but it could also help defray the repair cost.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    2. Re:Interested to see the long-term quality by seoras · · Score: 1

      You've obviously never been for a drive in a Soviet era Lada car?
      "no one wanted what they made" for a damn good reason.

    3. Re:Interested to see the long-term quality by Rei · · Score: 2

      California is their biggest market; could well be coulter pines ;) The cones can weigh 2-5kg when fresh. There's also sugar pine cones, which can be 2/3rds of a meter long (but narrow).

      As for the time to get an appointment, it depends entirely on where they are. While Tesla is working on switching to Tesla-owned body shops, right now, body work is contracted out to local body shops. So if you can't get an appointment, then the local body shop is overbooked.

      --
      "Close the door! What, were you born in a barn?" -- Police chief, "Jesus Christ Supercop"
    4. Re:Interested to see the long-term quality by Luckyo · · Score: 2

      Having driven one as my first car, it was amazing. Cheap enough that you can do whatever the fuck you want with it without regrets. I literally drove mine to death by driving just over the legal limit on the road, which was close to maximum rated speed of the car for thousands of kilometres with no maintenance until the housing that held the generator failed from stress and wheel that connects generator to engine via a belt went flying into the radiator. Fun part: car still kept driving. It's just that since cooling system sat on the same belt, coolant fluid went into boiling range quickly.

      Also fun as heck, fully mechanical, no computers anywhere, and rear drive. You could do amazing things with it in the snow. Wanted to turn 180 degrees on straight line one lane road? Give it a bit of speed in second hear, turn wheel hard to the left and apply handbrake. It turned literally around its own front wheels on the spot.

    5. Re:Interested to see the long-term quality by crgrace · · Score: 1

      No I'm not shorting the stock. I don't own any company stock of any company. She's been driving around with a broken roof for about three weeks and she lives in Silicon Valley so I don't think the location is the problem.

    6. Re:Interested to see the long-term quality by samwichse · · Score: 1

      Coulter pine is the first thing I thought of too... those unopened cones are as dense as a solid block of wood.

      There's a reason they have the nickname "widowmakers."

    7. Re:Interested to see the long-term quality by dgatwood · · Score: 1

      Actually, the location probably IS the problem. There are a LOT of Teslas running around the Bay Area, and not that many service centers.

      --

      Check out my sci-fi/humor trilogy at PatriotsBooks.

  10. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 2

    Oooh! N=2, at the start of production of a new product. Very convincing.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  11. Re:Propaganda by saloomy · · Score: 4, Insightful

    But they are profitable this quarter. As they get better and learn more, and have stronger economies of scale, they will increase margin, just like what happens to most businesses after the initial spending to build segment is over.

    Shorting such an innovative company is lunacy. They are years ahead on battery tech, years ahead on drivetrain, years ahead on driving assistants, and years ahead on infrastructure (power wall, solar panels, superchargers) as any other competitor. News and articles and tweets and this crap is fine for shorting in the immediate term, but over the long ark of time, financial performance is what will govern the stock price, and I don't think there are any worries there. They have a product, people want to buy it, and they are learning how to build that product profitably. Everything else is noise.

  12. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by saloomy · · Score: 1

    Anecdotal evidence is a poor indication of a trend. If you want to prove your point, show us lemon law'd return rates of these cars vs their categories.

  13. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by aphelion_rock · · Score: 1

    The ford Model A was a bargain basement model. Tesla are hardly aiming at that market segment..

    The model 3 is probably the cheapest electric car with any decent range on the market, I would suggest that they are already in that market.

    Nissan Leaf and the Mitsubishi MiEV don't even compare.

  14. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

    The Bolt does about 240 miles on a charge, and it's available at $36K today. The Model 3 - as shipping today - doesn't have competition because there aren't any all EVs other than Tesla and the BMW i8 at prices above $50K. Now, when the Model 3 starts shipping in the $30-$35K range (like the Leaf and Bolt), then yes.

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  15. Re:Incomplete data, bad news. by Rei · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Wouldn't be surprised if they do it even sooner. After transportation, their next bottleneck is going to be cell production; Tesla's growth has outpaced Panasonic's ability to provide cells. They're trying to get three new lines online at Giga as soon as possible, but it'll take months. When cells are the limiting factor, it makes sense to switch to SRs so you can make more vehicles with a limited volume of cells. Well optioned out SRs surely first, of course, but SRs nonetheless.

    --
    "Close the door! What, were you born in a barn?" -- Police chief, "Jesus Christ Supercop"
  16. Re:Propaganda by Tom · · Score: 2

    Don't tell him not to short! I rely on such idiots to sometimes drive the price down so I can snatch up a few more stocks below market value.

    --
    Assorted stuff I do sometimes: Lemuria.org
  17. Re:Propaganda by Dare+nMc · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Not sure they are years ahead on anything but possibly charge station network. While their competitors are decades ahead in things like dealer support, parts delivery, build quality, and most importantly paying down their debts. Their are many companies with decades of more experience on mass producing electric drive trains over Tesla. Panasonic is the primary holder of the battery technology, and manufacturing even at the Giga factory.

    Personally their is no way I would consider a car that is locked down in DRM, from a company that maintains a list of VIN's that they will not sell parts for. Also no service or repair manuals, and so far demonstrated an inability to deliver repair parts at any scale. Especially one that is so deep in debt and tied up in a couple car models, one big recall and they are bankrupt.

    Don't get me wrong, I am not saying short Tesla or anything close to predicting they will fail. Just that while I clearly have no idea how much of the population is like me, that would gladly pay $10k more for the support of BMW over the restrictions of Tesla. And they are just one mistake away from turning over their market lead to any one of nearly a dozen competitors.

  18. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

    Yes the Tesla is better than the Leaf. I've tried the Tesla S and 3 and I own a Leaf. The leaf is still very nice to own compared to the petrol cars I've owned. It's quick off the mark, cheap (I got it used), cheap to run and I never have to visit a gas station.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  19. By "the world" you mean "the United States" by raymorris · · Score: 1

    BYD makes more EVs than Tesla does. Zhidou may also.

    Tesla *is* the premiere supplier of luxury EVs in the United States.

    1. Re:By "the world" you mean "the United States" by Rei · · Score: 1

      Did. Not does.

      BYD made 114k vehicles in all of last year combined. Tesla made half that in just one quarter. Furthermore, note that I wrote battery capacity. The limiting factor.

      --
      "Close the door! What, were you born in a barn?" -- Police chief, "Jesus Christ Supercop"
    2. Re:By "the world" you mean "the United States" by Rei · · Score: 1

      Ed: half that in terms of Model 3s alone in just one quarter.

      --
      "Close the door! What, were you born in a barn?" -- Police chief, "Jesus Christ Supercop"
  20. Re:Propaganda by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

    The other AC got it right - there is NO PLACE where it says they make profit; that's why they lost $717 million last quarter, and are burning money at nearly $2 billion per year... That's not a profit.

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    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  21. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

    So how many will they sell (most likely at a loss) at $35K? Because right now, Tesla is well out-sold by other car models, let alone car brands.

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  22. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1, Insightful

    So what we've learned is that the ONLY market for EVs is rich folks wanting to show "how much they care about the Earth" by buying $60K cars (well, $50K and then with tax and license putting you at $60K). While the average person spends about half that on their new vehicle. Congrats, Tesla, on building a car for the rich only, and letting all those around them see how good and noble and Earth-caring they are!

    In the real world (you know, where the real volume of vehicles is sold), EVs are a non-starter because you simply cannot get the type of range or capabilities families want at the price families can afford.

    Interesting you also jump in this thread, and were basically silent on the one where Musk was forced out as Chairman, given a couple more watchdogs, and fined 400 Model 3's worth of money. We'll see how much money they lose for Q3, too!

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  23. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    Tesla makes more EV battery capacity than everyone else in the world combined.
    That is nonsense.

    Despite the success story of Tesla, European and Asian car manufactorers sell probably 10 times to 50 times more EVs or hybrids than Tesla does.

    Tesla is impressive, but it is only a single car manufactorer.

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  24. Re:Propaganda by theskipper · · Score: 2

    From a technical perspective, I honestly wish everything you said was true. Personally I'd love to buy an electric car now (and powerwall-type product) but given the large investment it would have to be from a stable manufacturer.

    Since it's pretty clear now that Tesla is a few months away from being forced into DIP financing based on their convertibles situation, and what the bond yields and CDS rates are saying, it's definitely a no-go. Even in chapter 11 I wouldn't trust that any warranty promises could be fulfilled in a timely manner, if at all.

    However the slew of models coming from established manufacturers in the next year is heartening. The Jaguar I-Pace and Porsche Taycan look very promising so it appears we really are at the tipping point of mass adoption. So that's at least a positive in gradual evolution of electric vehicles.

  25. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by Sique · · Score: 1

    A hybrid is not an EV. Hybrids are a completely different type of car. Hybrids are still ICE powered. They just have an added energy recuperation system. If the ERS fails, hybrids are normal gasoline cars in all aspects.

    --
    .sig: Sique *sigh*
  26. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by Barsteward · · Score: 1

    The Model S leads the luxury segment in sales https://cleantechnica.com/2018...

    --
    "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
  27. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by Barsteward · · Score: 1

    Why don't you list all the recalls by ICE manufacturers as a comparison

    --
    "The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
  28. Re: Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    Unconvincing claim considering that they've been asking you for evidence for last few posts, and you expressly suggest that it's unnecessary because [reasons you listed].

  29. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by Luckyo · · Score: 2

    This is complete and utter bullshit. BYD makes far more electric vehicles than Tesla at this point, and many of their vehicles are heavy duty, ranging from busses to sedans. So they need more battery capacity per vehicle on average. Tesla iirc is barely in the third place, well behind both BYD and Luxgen.

  30. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    False. Plug in hybrids exist.

  31. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    BYD's cars compete on range and are much cheaper. They just don't get sold in much of the West due to regulatory obstacles for foreign entrants as well as image reasons. "Chinese car" tends to get viewed with severe suspicion in markets where even South Korean brands are having trouble breaking into for similar reasons.

  32. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    Considering BYD's success, I suspect that it's actually quite possible in a decade or so.

    Granted, probably not in the West, where even South Korean cars have serious problems penetrating the market for image reasons.

  33. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by DrXym · · Score: 1
    Some hybrids ARE electric vehicles. Plug-in electric hybrids typically run for 30-50 miles from a battery charge through the mains, then flip to ICE when the battery is depleted. If your journey / speed / charge cycle fits in the range, then it's basically an EV. Some PHEVs may however kick the engine in at higher speeds though, depends on the power train.

    Regular hybrids are a different story. They don't charge from the mains, they charge from running the combustion engine. That means the combustion engine is the predominant means of propulsion and the battery / motor only kicks in at low speeds in stop-go style traffic.

    Regular hybrids are essentially on their last legs, obsolete really. Toyota is still flogging that dead horse, probably expecting to wring a few more years out of the tech. PHEVs are basically a stop-gap too, but in a sense they serve as an introduction to electric vehicles for the more risk averse / range anxious so they still serve a purpose.

  34. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by jabuzz · · Score: 2

    Regulatory obstacles: you mean like not killing you at a 20mph collision by collapsing into a tangled mess. Look if European, Japanese and Korean manufactures can make cars that pass the regulatory obstacles without issue then the fact the Chinese can't should tell you the cars they are making are in fact death traps.

    There is also the issue that a lot of Chinese cars are design knockoff's of western designs. They simply can't sell them in the west even if they could pass the regulatory barrier.

    So for example putting both together the Cheryâ(TM)s QQ is a huge rip-off of the Daewoo Matiz, but if you are involved in a crash in the QQ you will most likely die, guess they cut some corners to get to the $5k price point then.

  35. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    Hybrids have a battery.
    That was the point of the parent.
    Smart ass ...

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  36. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by Rei · · Score: 1

    Believe what you want; facts state otherwise. I know it's hard to comprehend the rate at which they're churning out battery capacity, but it's reality whether you want to believe it or not.

    --
    "Close the door! What, were you born in a barn?" -- Police chief, "Jesus Christ Supercop"
  37. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by Rei · · Score: 1

    Interesting you also jump in this thread, and were basically silent on the one where Musk was forced out as Chairman"

    What are you talking about? I wrote a good chunk of a dozen posts over there. Not like it would even matter if I hadn't; I don't hang out on Slashdot 24/7.

    (Rest of your post not even worth bothering with a reply).

    --
    "Close the door! What, were you born in a barn?" -- Police chief, "Jesus Christ Supercop"
  38. Re:Propaganda by Daralantan · · Score: 1

    I'm sure Slashdot is the most important place for stock market altering news.

    Troll feeding aside... If you want to talk about crazy, positive pieces.... I saw the title of an article the other day (didn't bother reading it) that said some stock analyst is predicting Tesla will easily be worth 20+ billion by 2030, and how it'll be the next big amazing mega stock.

  39. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

    Show me where they make a profit. You can't - because they don't. Current profits do not "accumulate" to cover past expenditures - past expenditures are already accounted for in the cash flow of past quarters.

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  40. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

    Yep, BYD has shown that real consumer demand is for something like the MIEV or the Leaf, but at about $20K. In other words, nothing at all like Tesla imagines.

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  41. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    No it's true, at least it was for the last complete year (2017): https://www.greencarreports.co...

    Note that passenger cars only, not including commercial vehicles like busses and trucks that BYD also makes.

    It will be interesting to see what happens this year, but if you look at the historic numbers BYD is ramping up sales fast so it will probably be close.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  42. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

    This is just nonsense. You can buy Chinese cars in Europe, including BYD ones. Availability is a bit limited but BYD is popular for taxis in London, for example. I've seen some privately owned Chinese SUVs too.

    Obviously they meet all European safety standards.

    The main limitation is that they can barely keep up with demand in China, and expanding into Europe requires a fair bit of investment. The cars need to be localized (software, manuals, EU requirements) and they need a network for sales and servicing. Realistically they need to find partners in Europe who understand the market and can run the show.

    Of course the same thing was said about Japanese and Korean cars, before all the western manufacturers went bankrupt.

    --
    const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
    SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  43. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 1

    And that has NOTHING to do with massive subsidies, tax breaks, and freebies for those purchasing an EV, right? It seems to me that EVs that stand on their own are tiny, low-range, and really low cost - the exact opposite of Tesla. The only way Tesla seems to survive is with lots of subsidies and giveaways.

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
  44. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by Local+ID10T · · Score: 1

    So how many will they sell (most likely at a loss) at $35K? Because right now, Tesla is well out-sold by other car models, let alone car brands.

    Bullshit.

    According to Bloomberg the Model 3 is the 5th best selling sedan in America, regardless of price or size.

    1st - Toyota Corolla
    2nd - Toyota Camry
    3rd - Honda Civic
    4th - Honda Accord
    5th - Tesla Model 3

    That's pretty damn good.

    --
    "You want to know how to help your kids? Leave them the fuck alone." -George Carlin
  45. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by Sique · · Score: 1
    Almost all gasoline cars (except those with a crank) have a battery, if you really start nitpicking.

    The big difference is the part that provides range. Hybrids can only ride a short distance on battery power, even with plugin hybrids mostly ranging between 20 and 30 miles. But for longer distances, the gas tank provides the range. The battery is only for short time storage of electric energy, and with plugin hybrids, the electric power train is more or less a replacement for a mechanical gear box.

    Thats quite different from an all-EV, where the sole provider of range is the battery, and there is no other power train than the electric one.

    --
    .sig: Sique *sigh*
  46. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    You're lying again. This is a discussion about electric vehicle manufacturing. You lied about Tesla being on top. It's not.

    Now you're trying to shift the discussion toward "battery manufacturing capacity".

    So in your view, is Aramco the biggest automotive manufacturer in the world by the same logic?

  47. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    My understanding is that Tesla imagines the same thing as BYD, it just approaches it from the opposite direction. BYD comes from public transit, where price per passenger and per distance is critical. Tesla comes from the mid end luxury vehicle, where comfort and performance are critical. Both are aiming at the mainstream consumer vehicle market.

  48. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    Compared to Western brands, not in most of the Western countries. The struggle just to break into most Western European markets for them for example was huge and is ongoing.

  49. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    If you can't comprehend written text, and read it as "you can't buy them", it's indeed nonsense.

    Next time, do try to actually comprehend the text before you reply, so you don't look quite as daft as you ended up doing above.

  50. Re:Hey, halfway to matching the Model A Ford by Luckyo · · Score: 1

    They do make cars that sorta kinda comply with regulatory standards. But they have little chance of breaking into the market, because of all the factors you mention affecting reputation of the brand.

    Notably, South Koreans are still suffering from their branding issues because they had most of the problems you list just a few decades ago. Back then, they had the same problem with the utterly protected local market where they had really easy time selling their cars. And as a result, they didn't really have to compete with foreign brands on merits, and their products had all those problems that Chinese ones have today.

    They'll get over those problems in a decade or two most likely. How long the brand damage will end up lasting is a wholly different story. South Koreans are still suffering from it, their sales numbers nowhere near their Japanese counterparts in Western European markets for example. And it's been decades since they had those quality problems.