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Japan's Silent Submarines Extend Range With Lithium-Ion Batteries (nikkei.com)

AmiMoJo shares a report from Nikkei Asian Review: Japan's first submarine powered by lithium-ion batteries was launched on Thursday. The [Soryu-class diesel-electric] submarine can reach speeds of roughly 20 knots and displaces 2,950 tons. It will be delivered to the Japan Maritime Self-Defense Force in March 2020. Batteries are recharged by the energy generated by Oryu's diesel engines. The vessel switches to batteries during operations and actual combat in order to silence the engines and become harder to detect. The lithium-ion batteries radically extend the sub's range and time it can spend underwater.

121 comments

  1. Double-purpose! by Krishnoid · · Score: 4, Funny

    Plus, when they run out of charge, they double as torpedoes.

    1. Re:Double-purpose! by rgmoore · · Score: 1

      Not so much. The thing that makes lithium batteries nasty is that they can let out all their stored energy in a great hurry if they're damaged. If they're discharged, there isn't any energy left to release, so they are pretty boring when you damage them.

      --

      There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.

  2. AC Extends First Post Streak with Another Winner by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    enjoy the sensation, m'ladies

  3. Subnautica - Rig for Silent running by NuclearCat · · Score: 1

    This news reminds me this nice game and endless batteries swapping while on high depth in lava biome.

  4. Can U feel the fueling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Fuel-cells would be better and just as quiet.

    1. Re:Can U feel the fueling? by toadlife · · Score: 2

      If you like half the total energy efficiency and a fraction of the energy storage capacity compared to diesel/lithium ion combo then, yeah...way better!

      --
      I don't always use unix-like operating systems; but when I do, I prefer FreeBSD.
    2. Re:Can U feel the fueling? by haruchai · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you like half the total energy efficiency and a fraction of the energy storage capacity compared to diesel/lithium ion combo then, yeah...way better!

      Nuclear for the win

      --
      Pain is merely failure leaving the body
    3. Re:Can U feel the fueling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Fuel cells need oxygen, and would face the same issues as trying to run a diesel engine below snorkel depth
      Unless you are planning on carrying vast amounts of LOX (and LH2) with you and/or the equipment to separate purify, compress and store them from the atmosphere/ocean.

    4. Re:Can U feel the fueling? by hey! · · Score: 1

      The class also uses four of the same air-independent Stirling engines used in the Swedish Gotland class subs, each delivering about 100 horsepower. While not as quiet a fuel cells, they are still pretty quiet and are cheaper to operate.

      So I guess what happens is that the submarine operates on the Stirling engines then shifts to batteries for combat.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    5. Re:Can U feel the fueling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      If you like half the total energy efficiency and a fraction of the energy storage capacity compared to diesel/lithium ion combo then, yeah...way better!

      Nuclear for the win

      Only if you need to go far and or fast while you're submerged.

      And nukes are much harder and more expensive to make quiet, and even then they'll never be as quiet as a sub running on batteries. You know how much noise a sub's batteries make? Go outside and try to hear your car's battery.

      For defensive purposes, conventional subs are hard to beat.

    6. Re:Can U feel the fueling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The energy is whatever fuel's being used. In this case diesel, or comparable. Efficiency depends upon reactants but can be up to 83 %. Better than the 53 % of internal combustion. You also don't have the losses of generator to charging battery, then pulling from that.

      Also it's not like it hasn't been tried.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Type_212_submarine

    7. Re:Can U feel the fueling? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Nuclear for the win

      Nukes are hecka expensive. If you need globe traversing subs to support your blue water navy, they make sense. If you just want coastal defense in the East China Sea, they do not.

    8. Re:Can U feel the fueling? by green1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      Nuclear also has it's issues. A diesel electric sub is much quieter, and therefore harder to detect, than a nuclear as long as the diesel electric is running in electric mode. The trade-off is that when running the diesel it's much, much, louder, and the all electric range tends to be limited. Nuclear allows longer range and relative quiet, but not as quiet as electric.

      This is interesting because it extends that electric range, and therefore extends the advantage over nuclear in short term engagements.

    9. Re:Can U feel the fueling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Subs running on batteries still drive propellers that create noise. It's not the power source of a sub that is most important it is the advanced sensor suites capable of hearing a dolphin fart 100 miles away that makes it dangerous. There are no great technological secrets involved with building a modern day sub. Specs on everything from power sources to composite hull materials are available to anyone. The specs for the sensor suites and targeting systems are not so readily available. For a lot of countries costs determines what type of sub they build but countries such as the US have never shied away from developing cutting edge military technology regardless of how much it costs.

    10. Re:Can U feel the fueling? by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

      Nuclear also has it's issues. A diesel electric sub is much quieter, and therefore harder to detect, than a nuclear as long as the diesel electric is running in electric mode.

      The phrase you should be looking for is "natural circulation reactor". That's when you don't need reactor coolant pumps to get power out of your reactor.

      They tend to be quieter than ambient. Which means you can detect them, with a sensitive enough sonar, by listening for the hole in the "normal" sea noise.

      --

      "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    11. Re:Can U feel the fueling? by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 3, Insightful

      If you like half the total energy efficiency and a fraction of the energy storage capacity compared to diesel/lithium ion combo then, yeah...way better!

      Nuclear for the win

      A diesel on batteries can be quieter ... slightly. (The nuke plant coolant system and the steam system must always run.) But the diesel can't be on batteries forever.

      Pros and cons, pros and cons ...

    12. Re:Can U feel the fueling? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Fuel cells *plus* batteries are perhaps the best solution. Or, more generally, (non-battery) AIP plus batteries.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    13. Re:Can U feel the fueling? by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      And they can run the stirling engines under water, capturing the exhaust and running it with compressed air or compressed O2.

      They actually can run combat missions with the stirling engine on, they sunk in "war games" a Nimitz class carrier several times.

      A Gotland vessel is boroughed out to the US Navy to figure ways how to detect/defeat them.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    14. Re:Can U feel the fueling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Subs running on batteries can turn off propellers. Nuclear subs always run cooling.

    15. Re:Can U feel the fueling? by Megol · · Score: 1

      So when can we expect your free energy source?

    16. Re: Can U feel the fueling? by tigersha · · Score: 1

      If the Soviets could run a sub with a nuclear reactor cooled with liquid sodium, a substance that explodes when it touches water then LOX is a joke

      --
      The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
    17. Re:Can U feel the fueling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't get it do you?

      The biggest source of noise in a sub isn't the propeller by a long shot. It's the machinery needed to turn it, which in the battery-sub involves an electric motor, while the nuclear sub has to deal with a turbine, various kinds of pumps, fans etc, etc. Nuclear subs also gets very hot, and as such have a large thermal signature, which is bad.

      Nuclear subs are great if you want to move fast and long distances. In brown or green water for instance, a nuclear sub really doesn't make much sense.

    18. Re:Can U feel the fueling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Perpetually

    19. Re:Can U feel the fueling? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My guess is that their primary use is to charge the batteries when submerged. It's not very efficient, but the Stirlings are too weak doing much more than keeping you still.

    20. Re:Can U feel the fueling? by Zorpheus · · Score: 1

      Nuclear submarines can be detected by satellites which look for the heated water that was used for cooling. This is where batteries and fuel cells are better.

    21. Re:Can U feel the fueling? by Zorpheus · · Score: 1

      The German subs with fuel cells also have diesel generators because of that.
      Their total range is actually larger than the Soryu class. Their endurance without snorkeling is 3 weeks, but I did not find that number for the Japanese boat.

  5. Kamikaze by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Old is new again.

    1. Re:Kamikaze by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      1943 called, they want their diesel-electric sub back.

    2. Re:Kamikaze by Tough+Love · · Score: 1, Informative

      WW II era submarines were not diesel-electric. They were electric underwater, diesel on the surface. A real diesel-electric uses a diesel to drive a generator that in turn drives electric motors. Obviously, this isn't possible when submerged.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    3. Re:Kamikaze by Rick+Zeman · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I guess you never heard of the snorkel?

    4. Re:Kamikaze by Tough+Love · · Score: 3, Informative

      I could have written "submerged below snorkel depth" but I assumed an intelligent reader. More to the point, I erred in claiming that WW II submarines were not actually diesel-electric. They actually were.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    5. Re:Kamikaze by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Clueless is clueless again. Kamikaze tactics had nothing to do with submarines.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    6. Re:Kamikaze by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Just for reference, and perhaps to save some future embarrassment, German "boot" is pronounced like Englilsh "boat".

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    7. Re:Kamikaze by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      Kamikaze tactics had nothing to do with submarines.

      Yes they did: Kaiten suicide subs.

    8. Re:Kamikaze by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Toughy is just having a bad day, eh? How you doing Bill?

    9. Re:Kamikaze by Tough+Love · · Score: 0

      From your own link: "this meant Kamikaze planes, Shinyo suicide boats, Kaiten submarines, and Fukuryu suicide divers". Saying "kamikaze submarine" is just illiterate.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    10. Re:Kamikaze by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Kamikaze means "divine wind", their word for typhoon. it is strictly a term adopted for the planes.

    11. Re:Kamikaze by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The Germans also had some kind of manned anti-air missile where the unhappy pilot was supposed to eject and somehow survive. It made one flight which ended badly.
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bachem_Ba_349

    12. Re:Kamikaze by Tyr07 · · Score: 1

      You know, if you're going to be a know-it-all and link wikipedia...

      You should actually read your link.

      "The propulsion of the Balao-class submarines was generally similar to that of the preceding Gato-class. Like their predecessors, they were true diesel-electric submarines: their four diesel engines powered electrical generators, and electric motors drove the shafts. There was no direct connection between the main engines and the shafts. "

      So yes, WW II era submarines, were in fact, TRUE diesel-electric submarines. As per your link to - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    13. Re:Kamikaze by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      For a very short time, American prop-driven nuclear bombers were a thing.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    14. Re:Kamikaze by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      You know, if you are going to get up on your high horse and be insufferable, maybe notice that I corrected my post with a follow up more than an hour before you felt compelled to trot out your own urgent clarification.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    15. Re:Kamikaze by CanadianMacFan · · Score: 1

      It's an anti-air missile, it's first flight is supposed to end badly. /s

    16. Re:Kamikaze by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      From your own link: "this meant Kamikaze planes, Shinyo suicide boats, Kaiten submarines, and Fukuryu suicide divers". Saying "kamikaze submarine" is just illiterate.

      Not offtopic. The bellycrawler with mod points was offtopic.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    17. Re:Kamikaze by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      No it is not ...
      But it not pronounced like the english boot, either, if that is your point.

      The german boot is pronounced like the english bot, but with a very long "o".

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    18. Re:Kamikaze by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Lol, don't call others clueless if you have no clue.

      Many late war submarines had mini subs, manned torpedoes, supposed to be used as kamikaze torpedoes. Luckily most submarine commanders refused to utilize them.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    19. Re:Kamikaze by nukenerd · · Score: 1

      Why mention 1943? The British built a diese/electric sub in 1910, the D1. The Germans ditto with U19. There were earlier petrol/electic subs (dangerous combination) but the vast majority of subs in WW1 were diesel/electric. There may have been even earlier diesel/electric subs built by Russia or France but I don't know, and the British built some steam-tubine/diesel ones (the K-class).

    20. Re:Kamikaze by nukenerd · · Score: 1

      Sound like you have just been watching "Dr Strangelove". Those 1960's American airman rode bombs like they rode broncos; men were men then.

    21. Re:Kamikaze by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Because of American exceptionalism of course. If something wasn't done by an American, it didn't happen. Also, if something of significance was done by someone located in the USA, it was done by an American.

    22. Re:Kamikaze by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Why did you post this nonsense, this is absolutely wrong. German Boot is pronounced like boat, not quite the same, but you're not likely to have somebody that you're speaking to misunderstand what you're saying if you add that extra sound that we have in English after the O sound.

      Bot has a short O and is further away from the correct pronunciation than boat is. Making it a long O just puts you back in the territory of having that boat sound which again isn't quite right, but a lot closer to correct than you're letting on.

    23. Re:Kamikaze by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's not really luck, it's just competence. Any sort of suicide tactics are never going to be wide spread and of much effect in a war like WWII where two countries are going at it. The only time it seems to sort of work is when you're really low on funds and able to directly target civilians and military personnel on base.

      In cases like that it can potentially work just fine as you can ensure there's enough people around to make it a worthwhile trade.

      The problem with the Kamikazes in particular is that you had to give them at least minimal training in flying, then you had to hope that enough of them would get through and actually hit their mark. They did have some success, but it isn't a winning strategy, it's just too expensive and the pilots are too hard to find.

    24. Re:Kamikaze by Hallux-F-Sinister · · Score: 1

      This is of course the problem with posting to a platform that doesn't let you either delete or edit posts. (I've run into this issue on occasion myself.) But on the other hand, it does encourage thought and consideration before hitting "Submit," so it's not all bad.

      But before excoriating someone for not having read down further to see if you corrected yourself later before replying, ask yourself, do you scroll down and make sure first, yourself? In theory we should all be reading the entire conversation before posting, to avoid redundant posts, and to make sure we're not just doing the modern equivalent of talking back to the TV, (replying to a comment in the middle of a conversation that in a sense, has already happened,) but that becomes really impractical when there are more than maybe a few dozen comments in even one thread. I offer no specific solution here, just an observation.

      Also, having arguements back and forth where the user-editable 'encyclopedia' Wikipedia is cited as a source... is perhaps less productive than it might seem. Just saying.

      --
      Our reign has gone on long enough. Indeed. Summon the meteors.
    25. Re: Kamikaze by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      He is right though. The German pronunciation of oot is different from the English oat, although slightly. enPR defines the first as o:t, the second as Åt.

    26. Re:Kamikaze by nukenerd · · Score: 1

      Need not worry : the USA was among the first in submarine tech. They were used in the War of Independence and in the Civil War - tiny things driven by hand-turned propellors, not successful though.

  6. Damage control problem by rgmoore · · Score: 1

    The lithium-ion batteries radically extend the sub's range and time it can spend underwater.

    I would think they'd make damage control very difficult though.

    --

    There's no point in questioning authority if you aren't going to listen to the answers.

    1. Re:Damage control problem by sjames · · Score: 1

      Perhaps not as much worse as you might think. Sea water plus lead acid batteries produces chlorine gas.

    2. Re:Damage control problem by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sure, just flood the sub with water, problem solved

    3. Re:Damage control problem by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      The chlorine gas is not the problem, the O2 and H2 that is created by electrolysis while running the batteries is: it creates an explosive mixture called 'Knallgas".

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  7. enough wars brewing to oulast most of us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    hopefully our kids will be smarter, less greed fear ego based.. in the moms we trust..

    1. Re:enough wars brewing to oulast most of us by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      spoken like a true cuck

  8. Missed opportunity for them by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They should be using clean American coal. The engines would be almost silent and it burns so clean you don't even need an exhaust

  9. diesel engines? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    more range than a nuclear reactor?

    1. Re: diesel engines? by olsmeister · · Score: 1

      Japan is probably kind of like "yeah, no" on nuclear reactors these days.

    2. Re: diesel engines? by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      No. That is the primary advantage of nuclear propulsion in submarines. Range.

      The primary downside is extra cost/size and noise from having to keep reactor cooled at all times.

    3. Re: diesel engines? by blindseer · · Score: 2

      Not quite.

      The 5th Basic Energy Plan, approved in July 2018, maintains the same electricity percentages as agreed in mid-2015. It presents nuclear power as âoean important base-load power source contributing to the stability of the long-term energy supply-and-demand structure,â and states that necessary measures will be taken to achieve nuclear powerâ(TM)s share of 20-22% in the 2030 energy mix.

      http://www.world-nuclear.org/i...

      Japan shutdown all nuclear power plants for reviews on safety after the tsunami hit Fukushima. Since then Japan has declared many of the smaller and older plants unfit for restart, a few newer reactors have already been restarted, and about half of their nuclear power plant fleet is set to be restarted soon, and they have plans for the construction of new nuclear power plants. To get from near 0% to 20% nuclear in little over a decade means they intend to be very aggressive in refits on existing nuclear power and in construction of new nuclear power.

      Japan has been restricted by their post-WWII constitution from having any military other than a small self defense force. An air force and/or navy capable of acting beyond territorial waters was barred to them as a condition of surrender, and today is considered provocative by their neighbors. Recent events has made Japan quite willing to build up a very real military, as well as the USA willing to give them the freedom to do so. World War II was a long time ago, and even memories of Fukushima are fading fast, given more pressing matters on energy policy and international politics.

      I would not be surprised if Japan acquires nuclear submarines soon.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  10. diesel boats... by CrimsonAvenger · · Score: 1

    They're glorified diesel Type XXI boats (WW2 German boats).

    If you really want extended underwater capabilities, well, that's why they invented the nuke boats....

    --

    "I do not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"
    1. Re:diesel boats... by Megol · · Score: 1

      Which are larger, noisier and much, much more expensive. They also in practice require a nuclear weapons program to produce the fuel.

      No, diesel-electric submarines are simply the best technical solution for their intended use, not a throwback to the past.

    2. Re:diesel boats... by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      I enirely agree about diesel electric subs by the way. And about nuclear ones.

      They also in practice require a nuclear weapons program to produce the fuel.

      This is Japan we're talking about. At any given point in time they're probably about 6 months to a year away from having nuclear tipped ICBMs, should they so choose.

      They've got a large, active nuclear industry including reprocessing and uranium enrichment for their reactors.

      Also, they have probably the world's current best solid fuel rocket. If you can reliably places catellites in low earth orbit, geosynchronus orbit or sun synchronus orbit, then you can easily hit any point on Earth.

      They have the education level, tech level, supercomputing expertise and manufacturing prowess to produce them.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    3. Re: diesel boats... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Try six weeks.

  11. This man's Navy ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 3, Informative

    ... out on the Big Pond.

    Aviation Anti-Submarine Warfare Technician 2nd class.

    The other side of the story is using hydrophones (waterproof microphones) to listen to the deep.

    Every major country has these permanent stations anchored out across the oceans.

    An audio spectrum analyzer sweeps the apparently random noise with tones from near zero up to the khz.

    Obviously, when noise from the sea is the same frequency as the artificial pure tone, they are added together.

    Rinse, repeat.

    The results are charted with frequency on the X axis and amplitude on the Y.

    A computer alerts when it sees a straight line, created over time.

    That's the tone and sea noise agreeing when they coincide with the sounds of reefers (ice boxes), generators, prop cavitation, screw bearings, engine noises, and miscellaneous unwanted fingerprints.

    We could tell you the fucking captain's name by the signature.

    Aircraft drop sonobouys to do the same.

    --

    Then there's this:

    Submarines, to date, have a lot of fucking metal that distorts the Earth's magnetic field locally.

    Permanent or airborne magnetometers can pick up these small anomalies.

    Sunken ships have long been logged and they don't move.

    --

    Then, there are active sonar devices, permanent or airborne (tethered from helicopters) that map the surroundings and alarm on novel or moving objects.

    --

    The submarine/anti-submarine balance of technology is similar to the battle of virus/antivirus one.

    This latest improvement by the Japanese may or may not be better than existing or future state of the art detection.

    --
    It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    1. Re:This man's Navy ... by Bruinwar · · Score: 2, Funny

      Thanks Tom Clancy!

      --
      SLOWER TRAFFIC KEEP RIGHT
    2. Re:This man's Navy ... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Works in the shallows. Open oceans, not so much. The primary reason for South China Sea brouhaha is literally this. SCS is shallow, and Chinese ballistic missile subs need to run the shallows gauntlet to vanish into the Pacific. It's choke full of USN and allied hydrophones. That's why Chinese grabbed the drone that was doing water temperature measurements, and why previous pushing around was about USNS Impeccable. For the hydrophone network to operate, you need solid data on thermal conditions of various layers of the sea where it is.

      Once China succeeds in pushing USN out of SCS, it can deny it ability to maintain the observation capacity of hydrophone networks, granting its subs unfettered access to depths of the Pacific where hydrophone networks are not operable.

      Overwhelming majority of waters around Japan are very deep.

    3. Re:This man's Navy ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Buoys and ships and satellites monitor currents, and there are many at different temperatures and depths, like rivers in the sea.

      The hydrophones work best in open waters because man-made noises are rare.

      That.s why subs keep close to the shipping lanes and noisy shores.

      Ship and airborne craft, manned and unmanned, are capable of dropping hydrophones at several depths.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    4. Re:This man's Navy ... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Accurate and reliable things that can provide constant cover over large area vs inaccurate and unreliable things that can cover barely a tiny fraction of area that would be needed to covered to provide comparable detection rates.

    5. Re:This man's Navy ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Can't help you.

      I can only share my experience and expertise.

      The issues you're leaning toward are not issues we had to deal with and that continues to be the case.

      Thanks.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    6. Re:This man's Navy ... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      I have no idea who "we" is, but considering the relevant clashes between PLAN and USN in the SCS over last two decades, both PLAN and USN clearly agree with me and disagree with you.

    7. Re:This man's Navy ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      So, a whole career down the drain because I learned nothing.

      Sorry to disappoint.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    8. Re:This man's Navy ... by IonOtter · · Score: 1

      And then you get this little jobby.

      The Soviets/Russians have the ability to find subs without sonar at all.

      --
      [End Of Line]
    9. Re:This man's Navy ... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      I have no idea what field you're in either. You never provided me with any information on any of those, so I can't make a judgement on either one.

      I can only talk about things I know about, such as public information available about events in SCS between PLAN and USN/USN contractors in last two decades.

    10. Re:This man's Navy ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      I told you what field I'm in:

      Aviation Anti-Submarine Warfare Technician 2nd class. [USN]

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    11. Re:This man's Navy ... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      Of course he did ... just click back back back, till you find the post you originally answered too ... he is an expert and you are a double noob. Noob in not realizing that he is an expert and a noob in not realizing meanwhile what nonsense you have posted.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    12. Re:This man's Navy ... by nukenerd · · Score: 1

      Captain Dork, I think your carriage return key is sticking.

    13. Re:This man's Navy ... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      So, P-8? About the only way to develop that sort of arrogance is to be the sonar guy on that aircraft. It's so much better than P-3, you can develop a feeling you're just able to do miracles, because all too often you're given mission profiles intended for P-3.

      Which is where harsh reality check comes in. You still need a track provided by intelligence on approximate location of submarine you're looking for to actually go hunt it. Even with the speed P-8 can scan the area it's given, it's a needle in a haystack, that sits in a field full of haystacks, that sits in the middle of Ukrainian wheat belt, which is the largest of its kind in the world. You may be good at searching your given sector, but chance of the sub you're looking for being there without the tracking provided by hydrophone networks that track it as it exists Yulin and heads for the Pacific is between zero and number with so many meaningful zeroes after the decimal point of the percentage, you're just not going to do anything useful.

      Which is why ships like Impeccable and those private operators of various hydrographic vessels have been in a quasi-literal tug of war in SCS around Yulin for last two decades. They're there to give you data on where to conduct the sweep. Without them, you may be very well equipped to see, but you have no idea where to look.

    14. Re:This man's Navy ... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Shouldn't you go back to claiming that Germany controls wind?

    15. Re:This man's Navy ... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      I'm not aware that someone is controlling wind ... you seem to have misunderstood something

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    16. Re:This man's Navy ... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      Of course I have, mr "professional in field of energy generation and transmission who thinks that Germany controls wind".

      Unless this is what some people pointed out some time ago, a PR account with multiple people manning it, and not knowing what the other employee ended up saying. In which case, fuck off.

    17. Re:This man's Navy ... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      I'm an expert in energy production and transmission, not an expert about "controlling wind", what ever you mean with that.

      As I said before: you misunderstood something.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    18. Re:This man's Navy ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      Thanks.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    19. Re:This man's Navy ... by CaptainDork · · Score: 1

      You do not know what the fuck you're talking about.

      What the hell?

      There's a whole world out there that involves aircraft carriers, helicopters, prop jobs capable of cruising at 200 feet above the sea, jets, ...

      I worked on the P-3 Orion (hurricane hunter) out of NAS Jax, as well, and it's a shame that you're stepping up like this.

      Let's end this on a positive note, OK?

      To those who served before me
      To those with whom I served
      To those who serve us now

      Thank you for your service

      CaptainDork

      Out.

      --
      It little behooves the best of us to comment on the rest of us.
    20. Re:This man's Navy ... by Luckyo · · Score: 1

      >There's a whole world out there that involves aircraft carriers, helicopters, prop jobs capable of cruising at 200 feet above the sea, jets, ...

      And to provide coverage, they're not anywhere near enough on their own, because as you certainly must know, most of them travel over beaten paths. Those that don't are usually fishers, who unintentionally serve to confuse attempted detection further. That's why Impeccable got harassed as much as it did, and that's why Chinese grabbed that hydrographic drone from private contractors doing the work for USN a few years ago.

      They sent a clear message.

      P.S. You really should look into P-8 capabilities. It's so much beyond P-3, it's not even funny. What P-3 needed a full flight to cover in a search, P-8 does in about 45 minutes, and it provides better reliability on top of it. And it's not even close to being sufficient to be able to track Chinese subs exiting Yulin without hydrographic capabilities in SCS. More like it's utterly unsuitable for the task without it.

  12. Saving time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    One hit that causes water to leak and it blows itself up.

    1. Re:Saving time. by Tough+Love · · Score: 2

      The cells are sealed, you can throw those li-ion straight into the chuck and they just sink. Currently gaining a lot of traction as marine batteries, the only issue is the price.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    2. Re: Saving time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When I recently needed a 60V/40Ah traction battery, LiFePO4 was about the same price as all but the cheapest lead acid while being smaller, lighter and with better characteristics.

    3. Re: Saving time. by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Good to hear. Everything marine just costs exponentially more and takes a long time to ramp down.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    4. Re:Saving time. by Tough+Love · · Score: 2

      By the time a warhead gets inside your submarine you have far bigger issues than exploding batteries, if they even do.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    5. Re:Saving time. by Tough+Love · · Score: 1, Offtopic

      You better email those Japanese engineers right away to inform them of the terrible mistake they made, that only you can see.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    6. Re:Saving time. by Tough+Love · · Score: 2, Funny

      No, you really need to tell them about how much more fragile their battery casings are than they really think. Don't hold back.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
    7. Re:Saving time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you assuming they are bolted to the hull?
      Seems pretty easy to solve the concussive force risk with some various forms of suspension decoupling it from any primary impact.

    8. Re:Saving time. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You better email those Japanese engineers right away to inform them of the terrible mistake they made, that only you can see.

      Let's hope these Japanese engineers did not intern at Boeing for any length of time.

  13. Re:AC Extends First Post Streak with Another Winne by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The ladies gossip that you are kinda slow, this confirms it.

  14. Fuel Cell for the win by Crashmarik · · Score: 2

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

    German Type 212 up to 3 weeks of silent running on fuel cells.

  15. Combination diesel-electric and diesel/electric by turbotalon · · Score: 1

    Many of the WWII era subs used a hybrid system. The USS Seawolf used early in the war had four diesels: two connected directly to the props, two connected to generators. The sub could only drive at max speed with all four diesels running, two driving the props directly, two supplementing the power by first generating electricity that was then fed directly to the motors on the props.

    --

    I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy

    1. Re:Combination diesel-electric and diesel/electric by Tough+Love · · Score: 1

      Right. To niggle, the Seawolf class was between wars. After that, looks like fully diesel-electric, that is, Balao and Tench class. Possibly because the priority shifted from surface speed to submerged endurance.

      --
      When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
  16. why is an American submarine shooting an Russian t by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    why is an American submarine shooting an Russian torpedo

  17. 1173 = model # by spinitch · · Score: 1

    1173 = model # Staffed by self defense unit 5O

  18. The vessel switches to batteries during operations and actual combat in order to silence the engines and become harder to detect.

    Like ... all diesel electric boats.

    (I get that the point is that these are better batteries. That was just kind of weird.)

    1. Re:yes by SuiteSisterMary · · Score: 1

      Sure, but kids these days that didn't grow up during the Cold War might not be up on that sort of thing.

      --
      Vintage computer games and RPG books available. Email me if you're interested.
  19. Fire will be the big risk by evanh · · Score: 1

    if they are using a Lithium-Cobalt chemistry. Hopefully they've chosen a Lithium-Phosphate though. These are tough cells.

    The article is too lacking.

  20. Noise by JBMcB · · Score: 3, Informative

    Noise isn't necessarily the problem with nuclear reactors, it's the heat. They dump a bunch of heat into the water, which can be picked up by satellites. They have to go *deep* to evade detection this way, which limits where they can go. You won't be able to tell *exactly* where the sub is, but you get the idea that one is in the area, and it's general direction.

    --
    My Other Computer Is A Data General Nova III.
    1. Re:Noise by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This sounds like complete bull, a reactor may produce a lot of energy but no where near enough to make a noticeable change in the surrounding ocean.

  21. comedy CAPTCHA: tragedy by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If they'd had these batteries during the war, they could have defeated the U.S. even after their fuel supply was stopped.

  22. Soryu by tigersha · · Score: 1

    Why would the Japanese name a warship after one of the carriers that went down at Midway, the battle that pretty much ended their empire?

    --
    The dangers of excessive individualism are nothing compared to the oppressiveness of excessive collectivism
    1. Re:Soryu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You mean, why would they call it Green Dragon?

      Why not? You think we'll never call anything USS Columbia or USS Challenger again?

  23. Nice for war by nospam007 · · Score: 1

    How about an article about VPT lithium batteries for rebreather divers?
    Those can also dive silently for much longer times than the old compressed air ones and it's useful for us as well.

  24. Red October... by SoundGuyNoise · · Score: 1

    KyatapirÄdoraibu

    --
    You never expect irony, do you?
    Want to be a professional wrestler? Visit www.iyfwrestling.com
    @iyfwrestling
  25. Nothing new, lots misleading by fygment · · Score: 1

    Diesel electric submarine tech has been around close to a century so that's not new.
    Running on electric is quieter and in the submarine warfare scenario, that is crucial.
    Batteries don't radically extend range. What is likely is that the batteries have better range than previous types of batteries.
    This is all information that is easily available and yet the referenced article reports on it poorly.
    So ask yourself, "How accurate is the media when it comes to information that is hard to obtain?"

    --
    "Consensus" in science is _always_ a political construct.