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Silicon Valley's Saudi Arabia Problem (nytimes.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report: Somewhere in the United States, someone is getting into an Uber en route to a WeWork co-working space. Their dog is with a walker whom they hired through the app Wag. They will eat a lunch delivered by DoorDash, while participating in several chat conversations on Slack. And, for all of it, they have an unlikely benefactor to thank: the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Long before the dissident Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi vanished, the kingdom has sought influence in the West -- perhaps intended, in part, to make us forget what it is. A medieval theocracy that still beheads by sword, doubling as a modern nation with malls (including a planned mall offering indoor skiing), Saudi Arabia has been called "an ISIS that made it." Remarkably, the country has avoided pariah status in the United States thanks to our thirst for oil, Riyadh's carefully cultivated ties with Washington, its big arms purchases, and the two countries' shared interest in counterterrorism. But lately the Saudis have been growing their circle of American enablers, pouring billions into Silicon Valley technology companies.
While an earlier generation of Saudi leaders, like Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, invested billions of dollars in blue-chip companies in the United States, the kingdom's new crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, has shifted Saudi Arabia's investment attention from Wall Street to Silicon Valley. Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund has become one of Silicon Valley's biggest swinging checkbooks, working mostly through a $100 billion fund raised by SoftBank (a Japanese company), which has swashbuckled its way through the technology industry, often taking multibillion-dollar stakes in promising companies. The Public Investment Fund put $45 billion into SoftBank's first Vision Fund, and Bloomberg recently reported that the Saudi fund would invest another $45 billion into SoftBank's second Vision Fund. SoftBank, with the help of that Saudi money, is now said to be the largest shareholder in Uber. It has also put significant money into a long list of start-ups that includes Wag, DoorDash, WeWork, Plenty, Cruise, Katerra, Nvidia and Slack. As the world fills up car tanks with gas and climate change worsens, Saudi Arabia reaps enormous profits -- and some of that money shows up in the bank accounts of fast-growing companies that love to talk about "making the world a better place."
While an earlier generation of Saudi leaders, like Prince Alwaleed bin Talal, invested billions of dollars in blue-chip companies in the United States, the kingdom's new crown prince, Mohammed bin Salman, has shifted Saudi Arabia's investment attention from Wall Street to Silicon Valley. Saudi Arabia's Public Investment Fund has become one of Silicon Valley's biggest swinging checkbooks, working mostly through a $100 billion fund raised by SoftBank (a Japanese company), which has swashbuckled its way through the technology industry, often taking multibillion-dollar stakes in promising companies. The Public Investment Fund put $45 billion into SoftBank's first Vision Fund, and Bloomberg recently reported that the Saudi fund would invest another $45 billion into SoftBank's second Vision Fund. SoftBank, with the help of that Saudi money, is now said to be the largest shareholder in Uber. It has also put significant money into a long list of start-ups that includes Wag, DoorDash, WeWork, Plenty, Cruise, Katerra, Nvidia and Slack. As the world fills up car tanks with gas and climate change worsens, Saudi Arabia reaps enormous profits -- and some of that money shows up in the bank accounts of fast-growing companies that love to talk about "making the world a better place."
Problem solved.
Next problem?
I don't respond to AC's.
Typically there is a jury involved if death by volts in the USA
the beheaded had a trial too
If you've ever worked with Silicon Valley types you'd know most of them will sell their mom for a buck. Nobody gives a shit where their next round comes from as long as it does come.
Lots of talk, followed by some back room dealing. A compromise will be reached whereas the US and Europe can take some token action that Saudi Arabia will make strident statements against and will make some token responding gesture - neither of which will substantively impact each other.
The West is just too dependent on Saudi oil... plus they’re considered friendly to western interests. No one will have the will to really punish them.
#DeleteChrome
I never understood why so many people support, visit, and defend that country
The food's quite good.
No sig today...
The US gives the death penalty for murder and worse.
Saudi Arabia gives the death penalty (or tries to) for speaking out:
https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/saudi-arabia-seeks-unprecedented-death-penalty-woman-activist-n902771
They also apply the death penalty for things that aren't even crimes in civilized countries, like sodomy, blashpemy and witchcraft:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Saudi_Arabia#Other_offences
Also, the US is a Democracy, not a theocracy.
There might be a slight difference between executing (different than murder) someone who was themselves a mass murderer after they've sat in prison for decades and have had several rounds of appeals as opposed to executing someone for homosexuality, being a women's rights activist, or allegedly practicing sorcery. If you're lucky you might even be crucified.
Also, not all U.S. states have a death penalty, and of those that do, many don't use the electric chair. Wikipedia indicates that some states allow convicted criminals to choose it if they so want, but that there aren't a lot of states actually using it. Most of it is by lethal injection, and I'd say that there are probably more humane ways than that to kill a person if you're going to do it. Nitrous oxide asphyxiation seems like a pretty painless way to me, and probably a hell of a lot less expensive.
A medieval theocracy that still beheads by sword
So the US is a medieval theocracy that murders with volts?
I believe that there are three different claims being made in the statement:
Saudi Arabia is a theocracy
Saudi Arabia is medieval
Saudi Arabia uses "beheading by sword" as a method of capital punishment
I don't see a claim that "beheading by sword" makes Saudi Arabia a medieval theocracy, so it does not logically follow that the United States would be a medieval theocracy that "murders with volts".
According to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_Saudi_Arabia Saudi Arabia is a theocracy. Depending upon one's point of view, there are aspects of Saudi Arabian society that appear to not have progressed beyond what Europe practiced in the European medieval period. Saudi Arabia does use beheading as a method of capital punishment https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Saudi_Arabia.
So the claim that "Saudi Arabia is a medieval theocracy that still beheads by sword" seems to me to be based on a set of independent facts. I don't see evidence of a claim that the manner of execution determines whether a nation-state is a medieval theocracy.
To get the Saddam treatment.
SA always had the same laws as the IS. Yet they were America's best friend in the region.
Because their leaders obeyed the USA.
Who here remembers when Saddam was America's best friend aka henchman in the region?
Suddenly he became "the new Hitler" literally over night. Only beause he stopped obeying, and attacked Quwait instead of Iran as he was told to, because he was tired of losing. That is literally all that changed. He already was an asshole before.
And why did he keep losing? Because Iran had the third or fourth largest military in the world.
And why was that?
Because Iran got the same treament before!
Does anyone remember, when *Iran* was the USA's best friend in the region? "As a stronghold against communism." (As if the Russian dictatorship wasn't a big enough enemy of communism themselves. Stretching out the "transition phase" ad infinitum.)
Then, the Iranians suffered so much under their US puppet dictator, that they fell for religion, and in their desperation, chose a religious nutjob. Which would be like the USA having a literal revolution, to install the WBC, just to get rid of Trump.
Bam, they were the new Hitlers.
Why do you think with recently taking Russia out lf the convenieg enemy figure closet again, suddenly they try to get along with Iran again, just when a new US-friendly leader jumps out of nowhere.
So now it's Saudi Arabia's turn. To be turned back into a desert wasteland.
Did they get too cocky? Or is it simply that China bough the oil instead and became their new oil best buddies, and now that the USA got more oil-independent, the old SA shit does not fly anymore?
Oh well... at least it will be the the USA's very first actual blow against terrorism. ;)
Which will come back to bite them, once the Russia scarecrow is all used up again, and they realize, that idiot TrumpObamaBush emptied the closet.
This isn't really news for those who pay attention.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
They way jerked the rag under Elon Musk shows they are not to be trusted. Tell him, "I am the final authority, I approve, let us do the deal at 419$", Elon, "what about 420?". "OK deal". The idiot tweeting prematurely was probably not part of the plan, just an additional unexpected bonus.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Whataboutism is a propaganda technique first used by the Soviet Union, in its dealings with the Western world.[1] When Cold War criticisms were levelled at the Soviet Union, the response would be "What about..." followed by the naming of an event in the Western world.[2][3] It represents a case of tu quoque (appeal to hypocrisy),[4] a logical fallacy that attempts to discredit the opponent's position by asserting the opponent's failure to act consistently in accordance with that position, without directly refuting or disproving the opponent's initial argument.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
9/11 hijackers were from Saudi Arabia.
And 100% of the perpetrators of the OKC bombing were Americans. So were 100% of successful US President assassins. Are we supposed to hate all Serbians because 1 Serbian started WW1?
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
The US gets very little oil from the ME. We protect shipping routes mostly. Lefties still working from 1970s data.
We don't get much oil from Saudi Arabia, but they are an important counterweight to Iran. Iran is our enemy because ... umm, we need an enemy because ... well, we spend $610B a year on weapons and we need to justify that somehow.
Iran wants WAR
that the accusation of whataboutism is itself a form of tu quoque fallacy, as it dismisses criticisms of one's own behavior to focus instead on the actions of another, thus creating a double standard. Those who use whataboutism are not necessarily engaging in an empty or cynical deflection of responsibility: whataboutism can be a useful tool to expose contradictions, double standards, and hypocrisy.[126][127]
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism
They are also a 5% owner of Tesla, and apparently Elon Musk has discussed further investment with them and also selling the company to them. I guess he likes those guys.
maybe if jury duty payed more it would not suck.
Try full min wage + free meal + full IRS mileage + parking (or full travel costed covered)
The last time I had it the pay just really only coved the public transport costs to get there.
Comparing the US judicial system to the SA Sharia system is like comparing apples to nuclear warheads. Your false equivalency is a prime example of the type of bullshit that has empowered the mob rule. And the mob seems incapable of understanding that their mindless sloganeering, over the top hyperbole, and general idiocy will draw a response just as mindless by those on the other side. If you are incapable of being honest in your criticisms then you would be better off shutting the hell up.
the beheaded had a trial too
Wasn't the case for Princess Mishaal bint Fahd
Pain is merely failure leaving the body
*sigh* And this in a time when one doesn't even have to go outside to get information and learn things.
USA have a variant of representative democracy where people elect leaders which in term can elect others (current example: supreme court judges). And that is one type of democracy. You may be thinking of direct democracy where people directly vote for different alternatives, or more likely of some variant of an anarchy (the political use of the word).
But really spend some hours, search and learn. It's interesting.
Juries are easily swayed by expensive lawyers.
Perhaps even more frequently by crooked prosecutors?
Ezekiel 23:20
We are neither medieval or a theocracy.
If you aren't, it's not for a lack of desire by certain influential portions of the population.
Ezekiel 23:20
And the US at least has pockets of sanity. Our constitution makes theocracy explicitly illegal (though I'm aware of growing movement to institute one, our current VP is a Dominionist for example...). There's several states that have abolished the death penalty (though we haven't had the strength of character to do it nationally).
Yeah, we've got our share of problems, but that doesn't make anything the Saudis do any better. If you want to find a fault in us it's that we continue to sell them weapons and help them bomb schools in Yemen...
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The latter is mob rule and tyranny of the majority.
Meanwhile here we are suffering tyranny of the minority, ala Trump.
Give Trump another term and we will be.
Mac
but is this gonna change how anyone votes? Donald Trump just said the quiet part out loud. He walked it back because it made him look weak, not because it was a morally reprehensible thing.
/.ers depend on (we're an aging demographic, so we got pre-existing issues alright). So far none of this has budged polls. There might be a bit of a shake up in the mid terms, but only because voters traditionally hand the other side the house just to balance things out. And even then those voters are voting for the more conservative candidates out of the other side, so it's all much the muchness.
This keeps happening too. Paul Ryan has repeatedly called to privatize Medicare for anyone under 55 (being careful not to risk votes of current seniors). Net Neutrality is dead. There's a serious challenge to the Affordable Care Acts protection of pre-existing conditions which I know many
So is anyone going to drastically change who their vote for, or start voting consistently when they didn't bother in the past? Is this or anything else above enough to change voting behavior?
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Also, the US is a Democracy, not a theocracy.
Yet. The U.S. is not yet a theocracy. However, based on their actions, Republicans, and their Evangelical Judases, are working very had to change that.
It is not just Trump and his merry band of tax cheats. The tyranny is supported hook, line, and sold soul by the Evangelicals. They are the U.S.'s Taliban. They are just as mindlessly religious in their intolerance and given half a chance, they'd be happy to lock up anyone who doesn't parrot their beliefs. The U.S. gets all funky over the Chinese treatment of the Uighurs, but where is the outrage from the Evangelicals over the U.S.'s tent camp for children of illegal aliens? Where is the outrage over separating families? Where is the Evangelical push to fund aid and development programs for the countries in C. America that are the source of these migrants?
Just where are the Evangelicals? Where is their Christian faith now that they cannot be Christians given how badly their souls have been blackened by supporting Trump?
Democratic republics do exist. In some countries, democracy and the people are valued so highly that they are even used in the official name of the country. Mild examples include the German Democratic Republic and People's Republic of China. But there's only one Democratic People's Republic of Korea.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
Can you even imagine America executing a Trump or Clinton?
Prior to 10 to 15 years ago, no. But at the rate things have been going, I can see it happening in the next 5 to 10 years. The wing nuts have been getting ever crazier and have gotten very efficient at stirring up more people than I would have ever thought possible. The media has also gotten very good at giving the masses just enough information to scare the shit out of them, but not enough to make an informed decision. Even the weather channel hypes anything they can.
Saudi Arabia uses Sharia Law, and the "jury" consists of educated clerics who are far less likely to be sway by appeals to emotion. Several members of the royal family have been beheaded.
As long as you don't mind issues of religion/honor/etc having a much higher priority than whether the accused is in fact guilty of the charge, yeah it's great.
Why do so many people think that if something is bad, anything different must be inherently better? It's like we've collectively forgotten that something bad can always be made even worse.
The article selection is rather poor and simplistic. The relationship between Western Governments and the Saudi's goes back now some 100 years to the founding of Saudi Arabia and is much, much more complex than described involving two world wars and the later discovery of oil.
Saudi money, both from government and private sources, has been poured into Western Economies and businesses for decades. When I worked there in the early 90's, the owner of the business I worked for, a long-established import company, had his personal financial assets invested in the UK and the US and his children educated overseas. He understood that he only operated in business while he was on the right side of the ruling family and ensured that if it all went pear-shaped he would be financially secure in London for example. And he was just one of many, many businessmen who did the same thing.