OpenBSD 6.4 Released (openbsd.org)

The 45th version of the OpenBSD project has been released, bringing more hardware support (Radeon driver updates, Intel microcode integration, and more), a virtualization tool that supports the disk format qcow2, and a network interface where you can quickly join and switch between different Wi-Fi networks.

Root.cz also notes that audio recording is now disabled by default. If you need to record audio, it can be enabled with the new sysctl variable. An anonymous Slashdot reader first shared the announcement. You can download it from any of the mirrors here.

Comments

Is anyone using OpenBSD on the desktop?

[UnknownSoldier]

Or is OpenBSD still best used as a firewall / server / NAS ?

Re:Is anyone using OpenBSD on the desktop?

[0100010001010011]

NAS

Is there a list of file systems it supports?

Re:Is anyone using OpenBSD on the desktop?

[spth]

My main desktop is Debian GNU/Linux.

But I also have two OpenBSB systems, and my experience is quite different between the two. I use them for various tasks (though they also sometimes sit unused for weeks), and for easy interaction use a graphical environment. One of the tasks I use them for is to check if the Small Device C Compiler (SDCC) works well on OpenBSD.

One is an old amd64 Dell laptop with German keyboard. Basically, it just works. XFCE as desktop, Firefox as browser, LLVM for the compiler.

The other is a Mac mini (the fastest of the PPC versions, RAM upgraded to max, with SSD - still slow compared to modern systems) with German keyboard. Well, X works. I never could get the German keyboard layout to work though, so I have to do quite some trial-and error when typing. There is no Firefox or LLVM for it. netsurf for the browser works kind of okayish for many websites. The compiler that comes with OpenBSD is an ancient GCC, that does not support current language standards, such as C++11, so it won't compile current software. Fortunately, one can install GCC 4.9, which already is an important improvement (at least it supports C++11, so a bit more software compiles, but C++14 support is incomplete).

Re:Is anyone using OpenBSD on the desktop?

[Noryungi]

I have used OpenBSD on the desktop since 2005.

It was a great OS for my laptop at the time, and it still is. I used OpenBSD exclusively on it, and managed to get everything done without any issue.

My current laptop is a MacBook Air, but the next one will run OpenBSD again.

Re: Is anyone using OpenBSD on the desktop?

[Zero__Kelvin]

Clearly you have never tried this yourself. Dependencies matter.

Re:Is anyone using OpenBSD on the desktop?

[grub]

I've used it on and off on the desktop since the late 90's. It takes a bit more work to get going as you want, but in the end you have a system that works.

It has all the tools I need for my day-to-day work (outside of needing Windows on our domain and Outlook for office communications)

OpenBSD Just Works.

Re:Is anyone using OpenBSD on the desktop?

[anthk]

setxkbmap de

Also, check youtube-dl and streamlink for online videos. For Youtube, mpv can play the videos directly, altough an altivec enabled mplayer will play those much faster. As for the browser, you have links+ too. Also, I can emulate a G4 under Qemu, if you want I can give you son Seamonkey binaries soon.

Re:No Code of Conduct yet?

[Anonymous Coward]

OpenBSD actually does have a code of conduct:

"Shut up and hack!"

Re:No Code of Conduct yet?

[iggymanz]

yes it does, it sacrifices technical excellence for SJW fad of the day.

Re: Is anyone using OpenBSD?

[DaMattster]

I use it for everything I do. It's my desktop, server, topper, and firewall. If it won't run on OpenBSD, I'm not interested.

Re:Is anyone using OpenBSD?

[ArchieBunker]

I do. Runs flawlessly. Going to update this weekend, it should take maybe 10 minutes.

Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[tgibson]

I can very much understand preferring BSD if that's the environment you cut your teeth on. Is there anyone who didn't have that history who looked at both Linux and BSD and decided the latter better served their needs?

Re:Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[thegarbz]

Based on the Slashdot comments from the anti-systemd crowd everyone here now runs BSD and Linux is officially dead.

Re:Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[SigmundFloyd]

I tried, but hardware support in the BSD world was frankly pathetic. NetBSD doesn't support ACPI suspend-to-disk and needs special kernel configuration just to show readable characters on the framebuffer console, on my old laptop. FreeBSD and NetBSD wouldn't even finish booting on one of my systems -- a run of the mill, 12 year old amd64 desktop PC that never had any problems with Linux.

I haven't tried OpenBSD lately. Although it's really high quality, its upgrade schedule is unacceptably hectic for me. I like stability on my systems; whereas, with OpenBSD, you must reinstall the whole system at least once a year, if you want to keep it secure (and if you don't, I don't see why you're running that particular OS in the first place). What OpenBSD really needs are long-term support releases.

What the BSD world needs is BETTER HARDWARE SUPPORT if they ever want to be serious, viable contenders. I'd love to switch away from Linux, which is getting more and more fragmented and unstable. But the simple fact is that, today, there is no serious alternative in the Unix[-like] world.

Re:Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[worf_mo]

I first installed Linux in 1994 (Slackware), and soon began to use it professionally. Over the following years I tried various distributions, Red Hat, SUSE, Mandrake, until settling for Debian around 2001, for my workstation, laptop, and servers. In 2011 I noticed that I was spending way too much time tinkering around to keep my laptop in a stable state (wouldn't resume from sleep, audio was hit-and-miss, wifi worked under one kernel but not the next one). I bought a MacBook Pro and haven't looked back ever since.

On the server side, over the past few years I have replaced all Debian installations with FreeBSD. Not "because systemd", but things were heading in a direction I didn't much care about. So if I have to re-learn a bunch of ingrained things I might as well take the plunge already. And I found out that I love FreeBSD; and the way things are done and worked with seems to be more natural to me. To list just a few:

- pf firewall
- package versions do not depend on OS release - I can have the latest packages running on an older release, and I can upgrade releases without upgrading all your userland binaries
- I can run the current (or a recent) version of the packages I need without having to resort to an unstable OS branch (see above)
- /etc and /usr/local/etc are separated for a reason
- jails

So to answer your question: (Free)BSD definitely better serves my needs.

I'm not writing this to disparage Debian or any other Linux distribution. I appreciate the work so many people have put into this (and have donated over the years). With FreeBDS I just found a system that I am more productive and feel more at home with.

Re:Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[TeknoHog]

Systemd is not Linux. There are Linux distros that don't use systemd by default. My personal choice is Gentoo, which I've been using since 2003 or so, and it never adopted systemd (though you can install it if you really want).

Re:Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[TeknoHog]

I tried, but hardware support in the BSD world was frankly pathetic.

This was my experience with NetBSD too. There were some distro aspects I really liked about BSD -- generally, a kind of clean traditional Unix feel -- but I was spoiled by Linux on the hardware side. Fortunately, I soon found Gentoo which takes the best of BSD into a Linux distro with GNU userland. The bit about having to compile everything? That's straight from BSD Ports.

Re:Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[sad_]

I found the BSD's are very good, but there is some relearning to be done (however, a case can be made these days that Linux also requires a lot of relearning by swapping out the 'old' and replacing it with something new for not always very clear reasons).
And since i've used Linux a lot more and a lot longer, i tend to return to it.
That said, it's good to know that BSD is there, just in case.

Re:Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[worf_mo]

With FreeBDS

Now that's a bit embarrassing... Mental note to self: next time proofread text before hitting Submit.

Re: Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[Zero__Kelvin]

That is completely beside the point. The point is that systemd works great and you have been sent on a fools errand by anti-linux trolls who spread misinformation to try and divide the community. The major players didn't switch to it as part of a conspiracy to make Linux the suxors. That would be literally the opposite of their best interest.

Re: Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[Zero__Kelvin]

That is ridiculous. Linux is perfectly capable of all those mundane (for lack of a better word) tasks. The existence of awesome development tools doesn't mean it doesn't have a web browser.

Re: Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[worf_mo]

You have posted this exact troll numerous times before.

I can't remember having posted this before - in fact I only wrote it today. Sure you haven't mixed it up with somebody else's post?

We professionals will stick with Linux thank you very much.

We professionals stick with what works best for us. For some it is Linux, and for others it's something else (or a mixture of systems).

Re: Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[Zero__Kelvin]

No, professionals recognize that others have to work on these systems now and in the future, so "us" isn't a single person, and BSD will never be the right answer in a professional environment.

Re:Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[grub]

"with OpenBSD, you must reinstall the whole system at least once a year, if you want to keep it secure"

Nonsense. There is an upgrade option when you boot from the ISO or ISO image. Here how you upgrade from 6.3 -> 6.4. I have gone this route for years and it has never failed me. Just be sure to check what it is suggesting and watch the diffs.

Re:Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[SigmundFloyd]

Nonsense. There is an upgrade option when you boot from the ISO or ISO image.

Yes, and FYI that "upgrade option" is a full reinstall (which you must do twice a year, if you choose that route).

Re:Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[grub]

Yep, I've done it countless times. I've upgraded from 3 versions on one machine in little time. Granted it's not pluuratiog-and-play and does require some oversight.

I misunderstood your comment to mean you need to do a full reinstall from scratch, meaning configuration and setup. That is not the case.

Re: Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[Zero__Kelvin]

Right, like if I said that a medication known to have dangerous side effects to 25% of the populace would never be the right choice to treat 1000 people ... Unprofessional and close minded I say! (Yes, you are an idiot)

Re:Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[ottdmk]

I'm really quite surprised that FreeBSD didn't run on your old amd64 desktop. I started running FreeBSD back around 2003 and I've never yet had it fail to boot on the several, bog-standard amd64 systems I've had in that time. Weird. I currently have FreeBSD running on three different systems: a Dell Precision Tower 3620, an old Eurocom laptop and my homebrew box, which has an AMD Fx-6300 running on an ASUS motherboard with a Nvidia GT-730 graphics card. The only one that gave me any trouble is the Eurocom... for whatever reason if it loads the DRI and DRI2 kernel modules it kernel panics. I just force it to only load the DRI2 module and everything's fine. The two desktops worked flawlessly out of the box. (I use KDE for my desktop. KF5 support on FreeBSD is in a really good place these days.)

Re:Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[urbanriot]

I'm curious about this 'run of the mill 12 year old amd64 desktop PC'...? At our company we use FreeBSD and OpenBSD for a number of secure server services and many of us run it on desktops to interact with those systems and we've never had a system it wouldn't install on with the vanilla kernel. A lot of people use pfSense on plenty of hardware configurations and the issues typically stem from oddball or cutting edge new hardware products.

Re: Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[Seven Spirals]

Systemd is terrible. I say so, and I'm definitely no poser. I take support calls from systemd victims multiple times a week. I started with Linux in 1993 using SLS. I work as a professional supporting Unix variants (AIX, HPUX, Solaris, Tru64, IRIX, and more). I'm an RHCA, RHCE, RHCSA, and I'm certified on AIX, HPUX, and Solaris, also (tends to happen when you support Unix for 25 years). I loved Linux up until Red Hat started calling it "Enterprise" and setting about supporting the Fedora crowd who has zero understanding of the Unix philosophy and is basically trying hard to re-invent NT 4.0 and svchost.exe. Having used BSD off and on through the late 1980's and 1990's I knew it wasn't perfect, but when I came back to BSD in about 1996 (after the 386BSD debacle was well settled), I found that that NetBSD and FreeBSD had made amazing strides and were pointed in much more rational directions than Linux. I know systemd quite well (after all I solve problems teams of sysadmins can't solve with it and have to call me for) and usually I find that some silver lining in things once I study them thoroughly. In the case of systemd, it's been the exact opposite. I felt it was a bad idea at first, then after diving in, I thought "this isn't a bad idea, it's the end of Linux as a decent OS." Turns out I was right. I've noticed now at trade shows, hacker spaces, and UUG meetings that only the clueless teenagers and older nincompoops try to pimp systemd. It's kinda nice because it makes it easy to see who's a total fucking idiot really fast if they bow up over someone complaining about systemd's terrible security, awful implementation, disgusting politics, or ridiculously stupid design decisions.

Re:Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[Seven Spirals]

Yep. True. Completely switched years ago. Nothing funny about it; I'm just loving it.

Re:Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[mangastudent]

I misunderstood your comment to mean you need to do a full reinstall from scratch, meaning configuration and setup. That is not the case.

I'm just now seriously starting my move from Linux to OpenBSD, and just did a trial 6.3->6.4 upgrade of a vanilla only one package installed scratch 6.3 installation. It does look like the process reinstalls all? the standard binary etc. system files, but as you say, the configuration, disk setup, etc. remains the same.

Here's the upgrade guide BTW. It's all manual, but easy for people with sysadmin experience. Replace the bsd.rd ramdisk kernel (for AMD64 it's tiny at 9.6MiB, although I suppose that means it's missing a lot of device drivers Linux and Windows have), tweak config files where syntax or semantics have changed, remove obsolete stuff, boot from that new ramdisk kernel, follow the easy prompts, fix up any mistakes you made in updating the config files (there's a tool to help with that), update your non-base system packages, and you're essentially done.

Not quite for this release, e.g. it turns off Intel Hyperthreading by default, and my OpenBSD scratch system is using a cheap 1 core 2 Hyperthreads Celeron CPU, so I need to turn that back on to test its SMP, and if I was using a sound input, I'd have to carefully turn that back on, it's now disabled by default for the obvious reasons.

So far I'm quite pleased, it's sane like the V7, BSD2.x and 4.x systems I used in the 1980s, but I haven't put it to serious use yet.

Re: Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[TeknoHog]

That is completely beside the point. The point is that systemd works great and you have been sent on a fools errand by anti-linux trolls who spread misinformation to try and divide the community. The major players didn't switch to it as part of a conspiracy to make Linux the suxors. That would be literally the opposite of their best interest.

Did you mean to reply to the GP instead? Because I didn't say anything about systemd suckage in particular. I was trying to point out that systemd is not Linux, but I guess it won't get any clearer by repeating it.

Re: Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[Zero__Kelvin]

Again, you missed the point entirely. The OP was saying that, to hear the systemd trolls tell it, everyone has already moved to BSD. The fact that there are distributions without it are off topic, since the GPs point was quite specifically about systemd and systemd trolls. Neither of us care that you can get a Linux system without it, because that is as backwards and foolish as switching to BSD.

Re: Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[Zero__Kelvin]

What you really just said is that you are highly biased toward SysV and BSD style init systems, and have a very poor grasp of systemd. You don't understand it, and you question the design because it is beyond your ability to do so. You are the year 3 high school computer science student who fancies himself an expert because when nobody in the year 1 class can solve it, you eventually get it working, though you don't necessarily understand what you were doing wrong that you eventually got right. You hate what you don't understand, and you hate those who do understand it. You are the pimply faced teenager you described, metaphorically speaking. Have a nice day, and stick to what you know, but if you think you are smarter than the experts at Red Hat, Debian, etc. that is hilarious.

Re:Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[thegarbz]

Systemd is not Linux.

I minor setback. I'm sure this will be fixed in version 230.

Re: Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[anthk]

> and I'm certified on AIX, HPUX, and Solaris Ahem, at least he knows more as a sysadmin better how SystemD "works" in REAL LIFE than Lennartards with fancy demos and slides.

Re:Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[anthk]

So the same as any Linux distro, but with OpenBSD I just boot bsd.rd, I choose upgrade, and then pkg_add -Ui. Done.

Re:Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[anthk]

Well, Systemd is Not Herd (The *true* GNU Linux should be GuixSD), but there is no acronym for that.

Re: Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[Zero__Kelvin]

First of all it is systemd, not "SystemD", and second of all none of the systems you put in your abortion of an attempt to quote him use systemd. If you can't get literally anything correct in your post you should probably stay the fuck out of the conversation.

Re:Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[mangastudent]

So the same as any Linux distro, but with OpenBSD I just boot bsd.rd, I choose upgrade, and then pkg_add -Ui. Done.

Well, going by the 6.3->6.4 upgrade, which I just did a trial run of, you may have to fiddle with a few config files, and do some minor tweaking like deleting an obsolete daemon and its user and group, but it's quite straightforward if you have basic command line system administration skills.

Re: Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[anthk]

I was referencing them about usable init and daemon approaches from AIX and the rest against Systemd, you prick. Maybe you should learn to read things twice before even commenting.

Re:Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[SigmundFloyd]

So the same as any Linux distro

No.

Re: Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[Seven Spirals]

Nice fact-free and content free profanity rant. Did you actually have some material criticism or are you as apoplectic you seem over the complete lack of any basis for defending sYsTem-dee? (like that, spelling better, chum?)

Re: Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[Seven Spirals]

You make a lot of assertions with zero facts. I never said I didn't "grasp" scrotumd, I do remember saying I fixed other people's problems with it frequently and that it sucked, though. Seems you have some serious reading comprehension issues. Maybe grandma took a couple of shots at you with a coat-hanger. Too bad she didn't finish the job, metaphorically speaking. Stick to physics, bro (if indeed you even know that well), leave systems administration to your betters.

Re: Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[Zero__Kelvin]

So the *fact* that it is systemd, not "SystemD" and the *fact* that none of those systems in the quote use "systemd" are not "facts" in your world? It took you a long time to reply to this post, which certainly had facts, and OMFG a swear word!, but I notice you never replied to my post earlier in the thread where I peg the real situation and blow your claim that you are an expert out of the water. Have a nice day!

Re: Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[Zero__Kelvin]

I read your post up to "scrotumd". Thank you for making it clear early in the post that you a child and reading further would be a waste of time.

Re: Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[Seven Spirals]

Losing an argument you never had any business in *is* a good reason to get lost, true. Well, that and your lack of ability to tell "a" from "are" seems to indicate that, in addition to not understanding what the fuck you are talking about, you also can't write. You're just another angry script kiddie that can't find any angle to defend systemd so you turn to personal attacks instead. When I hand you back some more creative insults you cry and run off. It's a simple case of being able to dish it out but having a meltdown when you are on the other end of it which I'd expect from somebody as whiny as you consistently are. You heard the rhetoric and saw the public argument about systemd and you decided you *really* had to take a side. OK, just one problem, without any practical experience, your only tactic is to make personal attacks, but you suck at it, and break down like a bitch when they come back your way. So, feel free to fuck off - nobody will miss you.

Re: Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[Zero__Kelvin]

You think you "won" your argument. You are too stupid to figure out that nothing could be further from the truth. And no, just as with your "scrotumd" comment, I didn't waste my time reading beyond that statement. When you can admit that you are a phenomenal dumbfuck feel free to reply.

Re: Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[Seven Spirals]

I thought you were going to fuck off? You said you would. I guess you are a liar in addition to an idiot. It's not surprising though. Anyone who'd defend systemd is going to need to lie something awful to get anywhere in a factual debate. Of course, then again, you are fact free. I bet you couldn't even write your own fucking unit file for systemd. Then again, you've had significant trouble just forming complete sentences, so maybe that's not fair. We should probably give you something easier at first, to test you like breathing or stacking rocks.

Re: Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[Zero__Kelvin]

I said I didn't bother reading your whole comment, as is also true this time. You like making shit up obviously, like claims about being competent for example.

Re: Anyone switch from Linux to BSD?

[Seven Spirals]

It must run in your family. Your mom doesn't read well either, but she has other nice qualities. She can suck a golf ball through a garden hose.

Mourning OpenBSD

[Anonymous Coward]

I went out to OpenBSD's grave on Decoration Day. The old forgotten cemetery is to be found adjacent to the dark woods beyond the edge of town. There within olfactory distance of the municipal treatment plant you will find OpenBSD's final resting place.

OpenBSD's tombstone was shrouded by thick mosses and knots of noxious ivy. A mournful funerary crow sounded the requiem, as I gently pulled aside the tangled twists of thorns, and cleaned the decaying marker the best I could. A suffocating melancholia filled my heart, while I pondered that this indeed was OpenBSD's figurative charnel house of which so many have plaintively spoken.

Nothing is so pitiful as an untended grave, a loved one now forgotten. The short sad life of this doomed and fated OS makes us realize that there but for the grace of God go all of us.

I planted some wilting marigolds, found discarded in the waste heap behind the caretaker's shack, wishing that by some miracle these fleurs de mort might take root and bring a modicum of cheer to OpenBSD's God forsaken plot. My fervent hope is that the torpid colored boy, who so carelessly mows the grounds, doesn't slice them down, inadvertently mirroring OpenBSD's own doomed encounter with death's irresistible scythe.

Funny how things work out. Linux, that brilliant novam stellam, now runs the Internet and the world's fastest computers, while OpenBSD lies moldering within its forgotten crypt. Let the barren silence of OpenBSD's tomb be a mute reminder that hubris and braggadocio were no defense on that woeful day when the Angel of Death's bleak umbra was cast upon OpenBSD.

Re:Mourning OpenBSD

[iggymanz]

idiot, OpenBSD is used all over the internet, mainly for routing, firewall and other appliances. Also proprietary systems have openbsd code in them. if you're typing from a linux, mac os x, or solaris box you have openbsd code in it.

the only thing undead and rotting are the pathetic anti-openbsd trolls, get some better material

Re:Is anyone using OpenBSD?

[fido_dogstoyevsky]

Not there yet, I've just started migrating.

Re:Is anyone using OpenBSD?

[Anne Thwacks]

Just had a look at my notes - I have been using it for over 20 years. Mostly on Sparc/Sparc64 servers and Thinkpad notebooks.

In that 20 years, I have had at most 2 software related crashes.

That does not mean I don't also use other OSes. I do - none has been anywhere near as reliable, but many can do things OpenBSD can not.

In a database server (which is behind a front end) for a billing system which is 150 miles away, 2 years uptime is more important than supporting a graphics card (it runs headless). The Internet facing machine is duplicated, so one machine can be updated while the other handles the traffic, If the update goes wrong, it can stay like that til a routine visit. If the database engine (or even the switchover) went wrong, someone has to go there and a lot of money is lost before he gets there.

You are already in front of your gaming machine. If it goes BSOD, you press the reset button. Its not the same scenario.

Re:Does OpenBSD support USB?

[spth]

Are you confusing OpenBSD with Hurd?

Hurd doesn't have USB support yet.

I don't remember when OpenBSD got USB support, but they did a an overhaul of their USB subsystem back in 2003, so there must have been support before.

Re:No Code of Conduct yet?

[lloy0076]

But they DO have release songs (although only up to 6.1):

https://www.openbsd.org/lyrics...

Re: No Code of Conduct yet?

[Zero__Kelvin]

Really? You don't think the competence of the developer impacts the user?

Re: Yeah, Sure

[Zero__Kelvin]

Nobody is saying that but you, and Linux continues to be the OS most capable of being used in a secure manner. There is no such thing as an OS that is secure when administered by someone who does not posses security expertise.

Unfortunately...

[emil]

...I must run Oracle databases, and they have not run on OpenBSD since Linux emulation is removed.

I do have a soft spot for the OS, and I upgraded my home system last night. I'm wondering if I should upgrade the SPARC at work without telling anyone.

Re:Is anyone using OpenBSD?

[orient]

My personal laptop and all my servers are OpenBSD. I'm not buying any hardware that OpenBSD doesn't run well on.