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Justice Department Charges Russian Woman With Interference in Midterm Elections (washingtonpost.com)
The Justice Department on Friday charged a Russian woman for her role in a conspiracy to interfere with the 2018 U.S. election, marking the first criminal case prosecutors have brought against a foreign national for interfering in the upcoming midterms. From a report: Elena Khusyaynova, 44, was charged with conspiracy to defraud the United States. Prosecutors said she managed the finances of "Project Lakhta," a foreign influence operation they said was designed "to sow discord in the U.S. political system" by pushing arguments and misinformation online about a whole host of divisive political issues, including immigration, the Confederate flag, gun control, and the NFL national anthem protests. The charges against Khusyaynova came just as the Office of the Director of National Intelligence warned that it was concerned about "ongoing campaigns" by Russia, China and Iran to interfere with the upcoming Midterm elections and even the 2020 race -- an ominous warning that comes just weeks before voters head to the polls.
To me, it seems like adding argumentative content to the internet is about like pissing into the ocean.
There is no way I can possibly see how this content could be changing people's minds on iota, there is already plenty of REAL argumentation happening online 24/7. They are trying to sow discord in a field where the discord plants are already ten feet high if they are an inch - and it wasn't Russians that provided the copious fertilizer required.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
posting a fake profile on hotrussianchicksforyou.ru /s
One person charged? Talk about the tip of a iceberg.
Aside from cultivating Donald Trump to launder Russian money and repeatedly betray his country, Russia's use of uneducated racists to accomplish their political goals is their most brilliant scheme.
Just look at how eager uneducated racists are to betray America to help Moscow Donald. At this point Republicans are now polling as supportive of Russia's continuing attack on America.
We need to "Lock Him Up!" with all of his treasonous co-conspirators with his campaign manager Paul Manafort who is already in prison.
So when are they going after the rest of 4Chan?
Clearly there's a 1st Amendment issue here, but only fascists want free speech now, right?
An interesting issue, however from the article she was charged not for her speech but for managing money of an organization, which intent was to meddle with US elections.
What, too early?
Just use mail-in paper ballots like real states do, and register everyone everyday whenever they apply for any license of any type at a county or state office.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
the most recent example is of the lady in St Louis who tried to prevent an unknown tailgater who tried to pass through a secure apartment entry - if not recognized, he should have let the door close, then buzz himself in - while she did what she was supposed to in order to protect her neighbors, the guy used it as a racial issue; the media outlets loved the race angle on this story but in my opinion didn't stop to ask if she blocks other tailgaters of other colors - she lost her job in this rush to judgement that is currently entertaining the masses
How's the weather is Moscow today, tovarisch?
I've abandoned my search for truth; now I'm just looking for some useful delusions.
I'm sorry but I agree with this being a concern of free speech. There are many organizations (Political Action Councils?) that do just this. When was the last time you saw a mud slinging commercial about a candidate and how horrible they are for doing X Y or Z. Or how Prop ABC is wrong for your state because it will destroy everything you hold dear? Not that I like any of that content, but I will die defending the right of people to push it.
This seems very strange to me. Foreign powers have been "meddling" in US elections for forever. We do it as well. The Saudis for example tend to make significant donations to advocate for the candidates they want... Trolling is not a crime is it? Also the supreme court has ruled the money is speech so should as well be protected -though I am not one to think the constitution applies to non-citizens.
she failed to register with the DOJ as a foreign agent. she used foreign money to try and influence an election. those are both against federal law.
nothing to see here - move along
without first registering...
nothing to see here - move along
she failed to register and then used foreign money. both are against the law.
nothing to see here - move along
Free speech is not an absolute right. Among the many forms of speech not protected by the first amendment: perjury, libel, slander, false advertising, inciting violence, copyright infringement, obscenity and threats. For the record, freedom of religion doesn't mean you can perform human sacrifices or polygamy and the right to bear arms doesn't include nuclear weapons. All rights have limits.
Support Right To Repair Legislation.
This isn't about free speech you fucking dope. She failed to register as a foreign agent with the DOJ.
And I'm copying and pasting this part:
"She failed to register with the DOJ as a foreign agent. she used foreign money to try and influence an election. those are both against federal law."
There are laws in the US that mandate that television ads provide disclaimers on who is funding political ads. Social media and the internet should be no different. I agree that this is a free speech issue but everyone should be well informed on who is paying to have their views expressed. That would make this all go away very quickly.
What evidence and what charges? You can't because there is no evidence there is no proof. Just like your rape victims. No corroborative evidence. The Democrats are playing very childish games and its not going to win more elections.
If it's Americans paying her, isn't it them who should register, not her?
Will someone please inform this AC that it's the Trump Justice Department that brought these charges?
You are welcome on my lawn.
but there are laws about how you disclose that speech. Especially for non-citizens and people who work with and interact with non-citizens.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
Charged with "sowing discord"??! Should have tried sowing IRC instead
Is she in custody? Or even in a jurisdiction where she would have to face trial? It would be swell if the 1000 copy/paste news articles about this included that BASIC REPORTING.
Yes, and why isn't it being suggested that the fact you have 'ads' for both sides it's a strong indication 'the Russians', 'Iranians' or whatever are simply foreign businesses offering their services to Americans who want to influence the elections.
under Federal Election Commission (FEC) rules they have to register if they are advocating a vote. either way, they failed to register.
nothing to see here - move along
We smell your fear. It's all you have.
Let the people vote. Not the Russians.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Money is fungible. Foreigners contribute to the candidates 'global charity fund'. Abracadabra, legal influence peddling.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
We deserve this for not allowing General Patton to finish the damn job.
John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
"sow division"
NOT
"get trump elected".
Let the people vote. Not the Russians.
Handing out ballots to everyone means everyone can vote, even people who shouldn't. The "Russian influence" has never been alleged Russian voting. Your proposed solution is not a solution to whatever problem there is with Russian influence.
I don't know what fear you smell. I'm not afraid to point out your mistake. Are you?
https://qmap.pub/ -- certainly worth investigation and consideration regardless of your conclusion...
When the king heard the words of the Book of the Law he tore his robes.2Kings22:11
It's not the Trump Justice Department, damnit, it's The United States Department of Justice. Believe it or not, despite his best efforts to piss all over every part of the Federal government to make it smell like him, Trump has not managed to corrupt, subvert, and destroy every single part of our government, and in this case, our top-level law enforcement, Herr Sessions notwithstanding. At least at some level we still have the Rule of Law here, at least for the moment.
So she is doing the same thing CNN and NBC and all others news organizations are doing... spreading lies.
I thought the meddling had something to do with actually changing someone's vote? Granted, spreading of lies will affect Democrat voters since they will believe just about everything, Republicans are more likely to figure out when something is a lie.
but they register. she didn't.
nothing to see here - move along
And the companies are American (incorporated in the US), and Citizens United is still precedent. So that's legal.
As long as their home country's government is not funding their efforts, they're legal.
I don't think most people understand the First Amendment; it doesn't protect you from legal consequences of speech, like inciting riots, libel, obscenity, or revealing state secrets. Nor does it exempt you from laws regulating the manner and circumstances of speech; you can't shout through a bullhorn at your neighbor at 3am, even if you're shouting political slogans. And it certainly doesn't exempt you from laws regulating the behavior of foreign agents on US soil, for example by laundering foreign money to obscure its source.
The First Amendment does not preclude government regulation of speech; instead it sets a very high bar, particularly for prior restraint. There has to be a significant public interest (like national security) involved, the regulation must be narrowly tailored (i.e. it must address just the interest at stake without affecting any other speech), and it has to be administered in an even-handed manner. Falsehood is largely protected, because of the difficulty of people agreeing on the truth, but false speech made with actual malice and fraudulent intent can be legally punished.
So yes, this woman can be prosecuted for spreading discord in this particular way. If the government of Russia wants to sow discord in the US, it and its citizens are free to do so, and American citizens are free to assist them, as long as they do so transparently.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Fixed that for you.
In reality, the Russians target people of any political persuasion. They are trying to cause partisan divides. Now, they have been most successful with the "uneducated racist" camp, but they've been about half to one fifth as successful with a bunch of liberal groups.
And it's a pretty Amercia-centric point of view. They successfully invaded Crimea. They got Britain to start the dissolution of the EU.. They're propping up fascist states in Eastern Europe. And it's unclear how far reaching their expansion of influence into the Middle East will be.
Your ad here. Ask me how!
But in this case isn't it the firm that has to register.
Because it doesn't seem to make sense to ask the employees to register.
"But still, regardless of who paid her, she would have to register because she is herself a foreigner."
Do you mean that because she's an employee of a foreign company that sells political ad campaigns to Americans she has to register herself, whether her employer already has or hasn't, if she doesn't want to get arrested when she travels to the US on other business.
she got charged with essentially the same thing as manafort - failing to register as a foreign agent. kinda like capone and taxes. as for the FEC that would be an organization with American money who has to register. she did not get charged with that. and the supreme court essentially made orgs individuals and allowed them to contribute. but yes, it would be the org not the person.
nothing to see here - move along
http://orange-is-the-new-black...
I can see that if the ones paying for the ads aren't American. But I find that's a stretch.
And that particular accusation coming from the US, who has an ongoing history of bloody foreign political manipulation, is ironic.
Thanks, I hadn't realized she was actually running campaigns while she was here, still it's ironic considering what the US does to other countries.
And who's paying for this ...
This seems very strange to me.
Defending the institutions of democracy seems strange to you?
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
She was not in the USA, dope. Is the US going to go after every foreign national that posts online comments about the US or stuff happening in the US because such comments may influence somebody in the US?
So every person in Europe that comments on Facebook or Slashdot about how the USA sucks because we still mostly honor the 2nd Amendment to our Constitution should be charged with election fraud? Somebody, somewhere paid for their internet connection so money was spent to "promote" that message. Such comments are extremely political in nature. Such comments can be expected to influence an election just as much as comments about supposed Klansmen.
Did she personally do anything on US soil?
at some point in the 1960s the parties flipped in regard to race issues. The most visible point was in 1968 with Nixon's "southern strategy"
You're assuming it's some kind of speech regulation law she's been charged under. She hasn't; she's been charged with fraud.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
as you are both black as coal. Actually they probably have the higher moral ground as aren't straight up funding coups like the CIA did.
ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
This seems very strange to me.
I agree and think this is not a good direction for the USA. Political speech is very subjective. Talk radio and other news outlets are spending a great deal of money influencing the election. Why is it ok for these organizations to spend money on political issues, but I am limited with my own money unless I am rich enough to buy my own radio or tv station?
It has been all the rage to support campaign finance reform (get money out of politics!), but it has always been a bad idea because adding complex laws just makes things more complex and unfair. We should repeal McCain - Feingold because did it really make politics better?
Doesn't change a damned thing I said. The POTUS is still accountable to the Constitution and to the Citizens of the United States. POTUS is not King, nor Dictator.
"I’ll Have Those N*****s Voting Democratic for 200 Years" --LBJ, Democrat
A good discussion on the finer points and definitive quotes in the same character can be found here.
The welfare state has replaced black fathers in the home. Democrats before the switch caused that to happen. Since the switch Democrats have doubled-down several times over, leading to the single-parent household rate increasing from 12% to 70%.
Forcing black Americans to vote straight-ticket blue or see their family home fall apart is bad enough, but it worked so well they are doing it again to Hispanic peoples. They are told that if they don't vote Dem maybe some of their family members will be deported, damn those evil Republicans following the laws which we also voted for. Know what minority this trend didn't work on? Asian Americans, the most well-off and well-educated major ethnic group in the US. Why? They start and own small businesses, value independence and making their own way with education and family values. Guess which party those small business owners vote for.
It's the Democrats complaining about systematic racism. They should know, they built that system and are trying to expand it.
she failed to register and then used foreign money. both are against the law.
False.
Only agents of foreign governments have to register. Whatever "project lachta" was, it has not been proved that it's a front for a government. Nor was she charged with not registering. So your assertion that this is the crime at hand is unfounded.
Spending foreign money on advocating issues (rather than advocating for any candidate) is legal. This was decided by Bluman vs FEC. Specifically, the FEC website says
In a decision that was later affirmed by the Supreme Court, the U.S. District Court for the District of Columbia ruled that the foreign national ban “does not restrain foreign nationals from speaking out about issues or spending money to advocate their views about issues. It restrains them only from a certain form of expressive activity closely tied to the voting process—providing money for a candidate or political party or spending money in order to expressly advocate for or against the election of a candidate.” Bluman v. FEC, 800 F. Supp. 2d 281, 290 (D.D.C. 2011), aff’d 132 S. Ct. 1087 (2012).
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Free speech is an institution of democracy. Without it, you can the same vote tallies as you do in North Korea.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
You only have to register if you act as an agent of a foreign state. If you manage money of a private organization, which is not doing anything illegal (and spreading false political narrative is not illegal), you don't have to register.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
That's probably bad reporting. The statute which she was charged with is conspiracy to X,Y, or Z. The X is "fraud". But all these charges are usually Y, Z or something down the list (which is not fraud, but something like do something illegal). Some of the (alleged) Russian agents who were previously charged were charged with identify theft (which falls under fraud), but, in this case, she is not alleged to have conducted any fraudulent transactions, so fraud is probably not the part of the conspiracy statute that's being used.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
Have you been in a coma for 25 years?
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
though I am not one to think the constitution applies to non-citizens.
Do you really believe it is OK to torture green card holders, throw them in jail with no due process, search their homes without a warrant, deny them speech etc?
If you read the Constitution, there is a lot of talk about people, persons and such and little about citizens and what there is, is mostly about political stuff like having to be a natural citizen to be President.
Even for voting, it doesn't say anything about citizenship and denying the vote to tax paying permanent residents goes against one of the founding principles of America, namely "no taxation without representation"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Why does that make a difference? A private foreign PAC would be okay?
If it registers as a PAC yes. The one in this article did not register. And you need to register to be allowed to "sow discord" in the US.
Once you register though, you are can sow as much discord as you want and people will just assume you are run of the mill Republican trying to tank the country.
Using your right of free speech to subvert democracy is roughly equivalent to using your right to own a knife to kill somebody with it.
When all you have is a hammer, every problem starts to look like a thumb.
"Freeze Peach!"
Why do you hate Freedom? Why don't you move somewhere without free speech? Some of them are quite nice places - just don't say anything against the party line.
There are millions of immigrants who would be happy to take your place, to enjoy & defend the freedom of speech that you hold in such low regard.
She's charged under a section of USC called "Conspiracy to Commit Fraud against the United States", which SCOTUS has defined to include interfering with government functions.
Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
Enjoy the fruits of what your government sowed.
Ah, the irony.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/wor...
Russia lost 24 million people because they used their soldiers as cannon fodder. Literally.
Right now Putin is desperately trying to pretend Russia has global significance while acting like a tinpot dictator of some shitty African or South American state.
Actually, I take that back. They wouldn't pose for homoerotic calendars. Putin appears to like the boys fancying him.
The first amendment protects citizens and does provide some protections to non citizens , but an agent of hostile power isn't going to be protected if they aren't genuine political actors. If an American citizen bangs on about being a fan of ISIS , well he won't be popular and the feds would be looking hard at him, but it's protected speech. But if a visitor or non citizen starts engaging in organised behavior to support ISIS, they are gonna get Gitmo'd. Obviously the lines a fine one and it's going to involve 200+ years of case law and a lot of lawyers yelling at each other but there is a distinction and it exists for good reasons
Excuse the Unicode crap in my posts. That's an apostrophe, and slashdot is busted.
"I didn't see anything in the article saying she was in the US."
Right. I was confusing her with Maria Butina:
https://www.ctvnews.ca/world/w...
Why does that make a difference?
Because the law says so. Whether or not that should matter is fine to debate, but currently you have to tell the US government you are getting paid by a foreign government.
A private foreign PAC would be okay?
IIRC, it would not be OK directly, but that PAC could create and fund a PAC in the US to dodge it.
For the billion and 1st time, if the business you do is in the US, you did business in the US.
When you order a pizza over the telephone, you're doing business wherever you're calling from, you're also doing business wherever the pizza place is located. Very very simple.
If you're paying somebody who is in the US, for them to do activities in the US, and those activities are also illegal in the US, then you broke the law in the US.
There is nothing hard about this.
So if I got this right, if American's bought the ads, they broke the law, the ad agency broke the law, it's employees broke the law, and everyone in the US who participated in the ads broke the law, and they're all acting as foreign agents.
political action committees have to register, and give donator lists. fake news orgs don't. welcome to america.
nothing to see here - move along
read the indictment.
nothing to see here - move along
I remember an article linking to some of the ads that were apparently on Facebook. I think I recall seeing maybe 2-3 of them. But what kind of surprised and shocked me - the amount of truth in the supposed Russian ads and memes as compared to typical political ads. I kept going, well...that's true. Ya, America did do that. Yup, that's mostly true to. Okay, so basically the issue is they created memes that were based on facts, and that further divided Americans. Heck, Americans are so divided, but most of the American memes on both the left and right are half truths and taken out of context. I started to actually feel that maybe we need more Russian news and input into our society.
Shh...don't remind people that America has a 1st Amendment.
Apparently, the only one in America that actually gives a crap about the midterm elections.
If two or more persons conspire either to commit any offense against the United States, or to defraud the United States, or any agency thereof in any manner or for any purpose, and one or more of such persons do any act to effect the object of the conspiracy, each shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
Notice the "commit any offense... OR to defraud..."? This means that committing any coordination between a few people (which has, as its goal, committing a crime) qualifies. Because any coordination to commit a crime is legally a "conspiracy". As long as what the people plotted to do is itself illegal, the fact that they did it together is what qualifies them to be charged under this statute. It need not be fraud. The reporters don't read beyond the sensationalist heading of the statute. But even the simplest parse of the 1st paragraph shows that fraud need not be a part of it.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
read the indictment.
This type of statement is white noise every single time. I gave you an exact quote from the Federal Election Commission. You have nothing. Otherwise, post the link and the relevant statute, regulation, or judicial opinion. You have nothing.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.
No, if Americans bought the ads, they broke the law. If the ad agency broke the law or not depends on what they knew. Same as anybody else you sweep in with "participated."
If you're acting on behalf of a foreign entity, you might be a foreign agent. Seems kinda obvious just from the words "foreign" and "agent."
No, lying is not the same thing as knifing someone. In fact, that's why you need free speech. So that political disagreements could be hashed out with words rather than violence.
Any guest worker system is indistinguishable from indentured servitude.