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Are Touchscreens Robbing a Generation of Surgeons of Their Dexterity? (bbc.com)
schwit1 shared this article from the BBC:
A professor of surgery says students have spent so much time in front of screens and so little time using their hands that they have lost the dexterity for stitching or sewing up patients. Roger Kneebone, professor of surgical education at Imperial College, London, says young people have so little experience of craft skills that they struggle with anything practical. "It is important and an increasingly urgent issue," says Prof Kneebone, who warns medical students might have high academic grades but cannot cut or sew. "It is a concern of mine and my scientific colleagues that whereas in the past you could make the assumption that students would leave school able to do certain practical things - cutting things out, making things - that is no longer the case," says Prof Kneebone.
The professor, who teaches surgery to medical students, says young people need to have a more rounded education, including creative and artistic subjects, where they learn to use their hands. Prof Kneebone says he has seen a decline in the manual dexterity of students over the past decade - which he says is a problem for surgeons, who need craftsmanship as well as academic knowledge.... "A lot of things are reduced to swiping on a two-dimensional flat screen," he says, which he argues takes away the experience of handling materials and developing physical skills. Such skills might once have been gained at school or at home, whether in cutting textiles, measuring ingredients, repairing something that's broken, learning woodwork or holding an instrument. Students have become "less competent and less confident" in using their hands, he says. "We have students who have very high exam grades but lack tactile general knowledge," says the professor.
Interestingly, much of the professor's research is on simulations, according to his web page at Imperial College London, where he leads "an unorthodox and creative research group" that uses professional actors with inanimate models to create realistic clinical encounters, as well as "low-cost, portable yet highly convincing environments such as the 'inflatable operating theatre'."
The professor, who teaches surgery to medical students, says young people need to have a more rounded education, including creative and artistic subjects, where they learn to use their hands. Prof Kneebone says he has seen a decline in the manual dexterity of students over the past decade - which he says is a problem for surgeons, who need craftsmanship as well as academic knowledge.... "A lot of things are reduced to swiping on a two-dimensional flat screen," he says, which he argues takes away the experience of handling materials and developing physical skills. Such skills might once have been gained at school or at home, whether in cutting textiles, measuring ingredients, repairing something that's broken, learning woodwork or holding an instrument. Students have become "less competent and less confident" in using their hands, he says. "We have students who have very high exam grades but lack tactile general knowledge," says the professor.
Interestingly, much of the professor's research is on simulations, according to his web page at Imperial College London, where he leads "an unorthodox and creative research group" that uses professional actors with inanimate models to create realistic clinical encounters, as well as "low-cost, portable yet highly convincing environments such as the 'inflatable operating theatre'."
Let the robot do the surgery.
I would never ask my surgeon if they know how to sew. I'm more interested in paying them to be extremely knowledgable and not kill me while they are operating.
Quit it with the clickbait, you.
Go back to headline-writing school if you must, but do at least try and muster a little respect for the commentfolk here, will you.
Is the internet robbing journalists of the ability to not write ridiculous stories?
My hand writing has become a scrawl.
Some drink at the fountain of knowledge. Others just gargle.
The real world is analog, as are all desirable interactions. Think of weaving or loving or trekking. Digiboi gamr-sluts pander the trivial ... promote the lax ... encourage the slovenly.
Touchscreens are only a part of the problem, and the article doesn't specifically single them out. Otherwise, a nice article about the practical downsides of our consumer-oriented culture.
Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
What TFA is lacking: Any evidence whatsoever that dexterity is actually declining.
It is not news that some old geezer thinks the world is going to hell because kids-these-days are corrupted by some new-fangled thing. That has been happening since Socrates was sentenced to death for corrupting the youth in ancient Athens.
This really surprised me. I was under the impression, using a smartphone was a feat of manual dexterity in itself. They're not particularly easy to type on, for instance.
Would be nice if we had more research into why smartphone usage inhibits finer motor control for other activities. In my perspective, this doesn't really make a lot of sense.
Since I have had to type, over the decades my handwriting had become horrible. Compare it from when I was a child, and it's completely different.
The same with my signature. Touch screen, Pffft! Hasn't been around that long.
Hello, meet Dr. Kneebone's assistant, Dr. Hipbone. Dr. Hipbone's connected to Dr. Thighbone by marriage to Dr. Shinbone.
Exactly.
Also, if 'stitching or sewing up patients' is an important skill for medical students, shouldn't they specifically be taught how to do so? I know I'd like the quality of my stitches not to be dependent on whether the surgeon liked his arts and crafts when he was a kid.
Sorry, but this theory that touchscreens are depriving us of manual dexterity is just ridiculous. Little kids cut and draw and paint and craft like nobody's business. That's all practicing manual dexterity. Lots of kids continue doing to that on to adulthood. Many (mostly girls) continue on with jewerly making through teen years. Many (mostly boys) are playing video games with console. Many work with electronics. Pool and darts are still popular into adulthood. Working on cars. Woodworking. Sewing. And pretty much every child (even in this age of laptops) spends 13 years in school learning and practicing to write.
No, but sorry. For the vast majority of kids there are still countless activities every day helping them improve their manual dexterity. I don't know whether this guy is a just some quack wondering why some up and coming students can't stitch as well as he can with his decades of experience, or if there really is some decline, but if there is some decline, I'm certain this guy's theory as to why is completely wrong.
It could be that it is too late to learn that at medical school. Nerves have lost the needed flexibility. Perhaps it is like a foreign language: most people can learn another language perfectly only if they start at early age. Start in your twenties and you can never pronounce it like a native, even if your vocabulary and grammar are ok.
But on a more serious note, don't blame me because I have been preaching for real keyboards with real buttons for years. So beyond tired of this touchscreen fad.
It might not be such a bad thing that the "could be surgeon" who somehow didn't die by tide-pod overdose isn't able to be one.
This is complete, obvious nonsense. Why was this posted here? This story is literally just "Old guy says a dumb thing about technology" clickbait.
It could be that it is too late to learn that at medical school. Nerves have lost the needed flexibility. Perhaps it is like a foreign language: most people can learn another language perfectly only if they start at early age. Start in your twenties and you can never pronounce it like a native, even if your vocabulary and grammar are ok.
Don't have mod points today....
"Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
There's more to being a good surgeon than stitching and sewing. There's a lot of cutting things, and knowing what to cut and how to cut them.
that is a reported problem in the airline industry. automate to make things safer, and you end up with pilots who arn't good at dealing with emergencies when the automation fails... assuming one don't frequently pull the pilots from revenue flight schedules to train them to keep flying skills current.
What TFA is lacking: Any evidence whatsoever that dexterity is actually declining.
It is not news that some old geezer thinks the world is going to hell because kids-these-days are corrupted by some new-fangled thing. That has been happening since Socrates was sentenced to death for corrupting the youth in ancient Athens.
Very true. Also, last time I checked, fucking practice is still required to master anything in life, or at least according to Common F. Sense.
So, if a student sucks at sewing, then fucking practice. One would think someone pursuing a medical degree where they practice on anything from chicken feet to human cadavers for years would understand this concept. No one is born a guitar player either.
Since I have had to type, over the decades my handwriting had become horrible. Compare it from when I was a child, and it's completely different.
The same with my signature. Touch screen, Pffft! Hasn't been around that long.
Uh, have you seen the handwriting skills of anyone armed with a PhD? The Dr. Chicken Scratch joke has been around for a lot longer than even keyboards. And no matter how much or little I put pencil to paper, it doesn't change my guitar playing. I think you may be reaching a bit here. One type of activity requiring manual dexterity is not synonymous with all others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
It could be that it is too late to learn that at medical school.
This is pure conjecture. There is no evidence that it is true. I have learned physical skills later in life, and so have many other people.
This is in addition to no evidence that the "loss of dexterity" even exists in the first place. It seems highly improbable. A generation ago students used computers with a mouse and keyboard. Today they still do that, but also use touchpads. Why would using your finger instead of a mouse result in less dexterity? It seems just as plausible that using the finger would cause better dexterity.
Do you really think that people accepted into medical school at Imperial College get there by playing video games on their cell phones all day?
most people can learn another language perfectly only if they start at early age
What makes this factoid interesting is that it is unusual. Other than learning a language, there are very few skills that are "locked out" by a certain age. With most skills, it is the total hours of study or practice that count, not the starting age.
So there are two explanations for the "problem" described in TFA:
1. There has been a vast decline in the motor skills and dexterity in the billion people born since touch screens were invented, but for some reason nobody noticed until now, and the journalist just forgot to cite the mountains of evidence that the good doctor has meticulously compiled.
2. Some guy is getting grumpy in his old age.
Apply Occam's razor.
I suspect it's not too late to acquire adequate dexterity and sensitivity in early adulthood. It's a practical problem in neuroplasticity which probably requires little more than patience. Sort-of-relevant example: I used not to be able to move my smallest three toes (per foot) independently but I found that after holding two toes and moving the other for a few minutes a day, my toes began moving independently after about a week. Stronger example of re-mapping (mentioned by Norman Doidge in an interview earlier this year): experimental subjects were fitted with goggles that blinded them completely. Within 24 hours fMRI showed that their visual cortices were substantially repurposed to dealing with sound and touch. As far as I know the subjects recovered once the goggles came off.
if 'stitching or sewing up patients' is an important skill for medical students, shouldn't they specifically be taught how to do so?
They are. They start with dummies, then cadavers, then real patients. When my daughter gashed her foot, I assumed the woman in the ER stitching her wound was a nurse, but she was a medical student. The doctor was just watching.
Surgical stitching isn't like sewing cloth. The needle is curved, and it is manipulated with pliers rather than fingers. It looks hard, but if you try it, it is actually easier than the way a seamstress would stitch. You can see better without your fingers in the way, and the pliers give you better leverage.
Evolution in action! Just one generation and we're already losing the ability to use our fingers as we did in the past. Hopefully it's not gonna be inherited just yet (epigenetics and shat), so that we have time to adjust the curriculum to make children use their fingers more.
The professor, who teaches surgery to medical students, says young people need to have a more rounded education, including creative and artistic subjects, where they learn to use their hands.
In other words, the professor is endorsing vocational / technical education.
For sure, but I suspect you can tell a bit about a surgeon's skill by looking at his stitches. If he takes the time to do it well and attends to the details, he probably extends at least that much attention to the more serious work. I just had foot surgery a couple of months ago, and was taken care of by one of the best podiatric surgeons in the state. His stitches were immaculate, and left very little scarring.
Please stand clear of the doors, por favor mantenganse alejado de las puertas
People trying to eke the good out of video games pointed out that they radically improve hand-eye coordination, and in later generations of gaming systems and choices, spacial positioning and manipulation, scene analysis and pattern detection, and the ability to more easily comprehend and learn new systems.
Even more recently, there's been folks claiming that they improve communication and leadership skills.
I'm not going to go over the merits of those claims, but note that you can find anecdotal data to back up either side here, just as valid and nuanced as the original article (which is to say, not very).
Pull back just a bit though, and you can see that this is little more than the old chestnut that starts, "Back in my day, ." The corruption of our youth and the loss of our values is a pretty tired drumbeat, and until you do the studies, your "concern" that students are losing a necessary skillset is little more than a concern that they're doing things differently, and you're obsolescing.
Sorry, but I'm not buying that not writing stuff out is the culprit. We've had typewriters for ages and anyone who's bound to be a surgeon was likely to have access to and use one. Hell I couldn't turn in a hand written paper 20 years ago in high school.
This probably has more to do with more people becoming surgeons. Similar to how grade averages dropped not because people were getting dumber but because we stopped shipping little jimmy off to the factory for a 3.8 GPA.
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If I'm getting surgery I probably _need_ surgery and for the most part I'd rather have a mediocre surgeon than no surgeon at all. Yeah, yeah, Physician do no harm, but if the harm's already been done there's such a thing as not making it (much) worse. Not so say you can't swing too far in the other direction ("Hi Everybody!" "Hi Doctor Nick!") but as long as he/she's got their license there's worse things.
What's that old quote, "Never let perfect be the enemy of good".
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I think children still use crayons and pencils so this is about more than using fingers to create awkward shapes. It's about controlling tools to precisely effect some material. Time to blame the parents: They're the one that allowed, or shoved, a tablet in their child's faces instead of Lego bricks, jigsaw puzzles, paint-by-numbers, origami paper, statue molds and filling, calligraphy pens, needle and thread, or even hammer and nails.
And why focus on surgeons? They are hardly the only folks that work with their hands.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro" -- HST
People with clumsy hands used to be called "all thumbs". It seems rather obvious that twiddling a device all day every day for years, the way people do--with their thumbs--will literally train them to be clumsy. In other news, "smart" phones make you stupid: https://news.utexas.edu/2017/06/26/the-mere-presence-of-your-smartphone-reduces-brain-power
Apply Occam's razor.
I did, and it told me that people often present false dichotomies on the Internet.
While the idea of a language acquisition window is complex and, like many ideas, not fully understood, it is mostly regarded as false. The article presents some interesting conjecture, but I agree that it provides very little evidence to support an actual "loss of dexterity". The pendulum doesn't always realize it swings.
...that have no physical dexterity.
Medical school is competitive. Students learn early to work to the test.
They aren't going to practice dexterity unless you test for it.
I'ts a big problem!
It's a problem!
Keep this and add it to the bin of information that points out the growing virtualization of life in all things.
E Proelio Veritas.
Manual dexterity, from an early age is a foundational precursor to mental dexterity. Future generations will be less mentally dextrous if fewer people develop manual dexterity as children because teachers and schools are under pressure to raise test scores in STEM subjects and useless classes on coding.
Agreed. Although if the good doctor really cared about people entering medical school with good dexterity, then maybe he should consider adding that to the list of things they evaluate for admission? If you have great grades but don't get into medical school without good dexterity, if you want to get into medical school, you'll practice your dexterity.