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Russia Wants DNC Hack Lawsuit Thrown Out, Citing International Conventions (zdnet.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from ZDNet: The Russian Federation has responded to a lawsuit filed by the Democratic National Committee and has requested the overseeing court to throw out the lawsuit altogether. The lawsuit, filed by the DNC in April 2018, names a slew of figures as defendants, such as the Russian state, Russia's military intelligence service GRU, the hacker known as Guccifer 2.0, WikiLeaks and its founder Julian Assange, and several members of the Trump campaign, such as Donald Trump, Jr., Paul Manafort, Roger Stone, Jared Kushner, and George Papadopoulos. According to an 87-page indictment, the DNC accused Russia and the other defendants of carrying out the hacking of DNC servers in 2016 and then leaking data online via the WikiLeaks portal in an orchestrated manner for the benefit of the Trump presidential campaign.
The lawsuit, which has its own Wikipedia page and was likened to a lawsuit the DNC filed against Nixon after the Watergate scandal, seeks damages, but also for the court to issue a declaration about the defendants' conspiracy. But in a letter sent to a New York court, presented by the Russian Embassy in the U.S. and signed by a representative of the Russian Ministry of Justice, the Russian Federation wants the lawsuit thrown out. In the 12-page letter, the Russian Federation argues that the U.S. Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act ("FSIA") grants Russia immunity. "The FSIA provides that foreign sovereign States enjoy absolute jurisdictional immunity from suit unless a plaintiff can demonstrate that one of the FSIA's enumerated 'exceptions' applies'," the letter argues. "The DNC's allegations regarding a purported 'military attack' by 'Russia's military intelligence agency' do not fall within any of the FSIA's enumerated exceptions to the Russian Federation's sovereign immunity."
"Any alleged 'military attack' is a quintessential sovereign act that does not fall within any exception to the FSIA or the customary international law of foreign sovereign immunity. The Russian Federation's sovereign immunity with respect to claims based upon such allegations is absolute."
The lawsuit, which has its own Wikipedia page and was likened to a lawsuit the DNC filed against Nixon after the Watergate scandal, seeks damages, but also for the court to issue a declaration about the defendants' conspiracy. But in a letter sent to a New York court, presented by the Russian Embassy in the U.S. and signed by a representative of the Russian Ministry of Justice, the Russian Federation wants the lawsuit thrown out. In the 12-page letter, the Russian Federation argues that the U.S. Foreign Sovereign Immunities Act ("FSIA") grants Russia immunity. "The FSIA provides that foreign sovereign States enjoy absolute jurisdictional immunity from suit unless a plaintiff can demonstrate that one of the FSIA's enumerated 'exceptions' applies'," the letter argues. "The DNC's allegations regarding a purported 'military attack' by 'Russia's military intelligence agency' do not fall within any of the FSIA's enumerated exceptions to the Russian Federation's sovereign immunity."
"Any alleged 'military attack' is a quintessential sovereign act that does not fall within any exception to the FSIA or the customary international law of foreign sovereign immunity. The Russian Federation's sovereign immunity with respect to claims based upon such allegations is absolute."
Russia can count on Donald Trump to continue lying about Russia's attack on our elections and his treasonous collusion with it.
Trump Jr is likely already under indictment for the Trump Tower treason-meeting with Russian government agents.
"We didn't do nothing, but if we did, it was a military attack, which we're allowed to do, so buzz off" -Russia
Totally believable. beauhd still not k-rad. Next!
This is silly that we are chasing foreign military for spying/hacking on American politicians. In fact, it seems wrong that we are pursuing Assange. They are NOT American citizens or under American legal system. In addition, I believe that they all did this while outside of our nation.
The ones to go after, are the Americans that worked for/with the Russians and Assange. That is what Mueller is up to. Supposedly, he has a large number of indictments waiting to go.
I prefer the "u" in honour as it seems to be missing these days.
I'm a never-Trump Republican. I hate the fact that the cheeto won. But I don't like this lawsuit at all.
AIUI, they're suing people for leaking the truth. They're saying the truth hurt the Clinton campaign and gave us this gimboid.
The allegedly damaging contents of those emails are things the voters had a right to know.
Much like truth is a defense to defamation, it ought to be a defense here.
If the US could be held liable for its own actions internationally, I'm all for holding Russia liable too.
ORANGE MAN BAD
How come they never let the FBI examine the the server
FBI: DNC rebuffed request to examine computer servers
https://www.cnn.com/2017/01/05...
The Russians' did the American people a favor by hacking the DNC. It exposed what most Bernie Sanders supporters suspected, but could not prove: that the DNC had already decided that their handpicked gal Hillary was going to win the primary, no matter how much support other primary candidates had. There was nothing "democratic" about the process. The DNC wanted Hillary to win the primary and they got what they wanted. But come November, Hillary lost out to Trump. Ooops.
We expect the jury to find us guilty, very very guilty.
The territory the device is hacked is the jurisdiction that applies. It is akin to crossing the Canadian border, burgling a location, then going back to Canada and saying 'Your jurisdiction doesn't apply here, eh?' The crime itself happened under their jurisdiction. This is the same excuse used for the Kim Dotcom raids: The alleged criminal activity was on servers hosted in the US. If he had used servers in Canada or Mexico, then their jurisdiction wouldn't have applied.
Now given the above, I would state that either Russia's agents are in fact criminally liable under US law, or they have sovereign immunity, but only as a result of Russian declaring that any involvement they had in said hacking was actually under the undeclared pretenses of war, meaning an official declaration on the United State's part against Russia is in order.
Neither of us is likely to get what we want, and Putin knows it.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
Unless they changed the vote count, everything they did has not hindered democracy.
Before the nazis rose to power in Germany, they had a difficult time with the courts, but after Hitler's 'election', the nazis weaponsied the entire court system, then told the dumb dumbs to 'respect' the 'legal' process- just as we see Slashdot doing here today in order to demonise Russia. Same old, same old.
In places NOT slashdot, you can read about the tens of billions the UK and USA spends on OFFICIAL military hacking teams that are engaged in current on ongoing attacks against targets like Russia, Syria and Iran. Hell will freeze over before any legal action occurs in any court against these CRIMINAL acts (that the UK and USA boast they are engaged in).
But, nazi style, we see Slashdot pushing the concept of SELECTIVE PROSECUTION in the field of international politics- always a prelude before actual direct military conflict. Russia had to promise the js of Izreal complete military disaster to get these satanic monsters to stop bombing Syria. America's provacation of the world's most advanced nuclear power is meant to result in something far worse than a simple slap down.
Russia has always respected international conventions, from way before the revoloutions of the early 20th Century. Frankenstein's Monster (The USA- the UK is Frankenstein) was MANUFACTURED to be outside of all diplomatic norms- something the UK could not achieve. And now we are at PEAK Frankenstein.
For the USA to successfully threaten the world, and bring about WW3, it was neccessary that that American populace was dumbed down to a degree never before witnessed in Human History. For World War, by design, could only have the worst possible outcome for a nation whose power had been built on trade and innovation. It makes no sense for a successful trading nation to trigger global war- yet that is exactly what is required of the USA. The 'trick' was in building a militaristic psychology- dumb dumb dribblers 'blessing' 'their' troops even when they KNEW their own nation had never been threatened by external forces (Britain doesn't count, for the 'conflict' with Britain was always FAKE NEWS).
So Americans, with everything to lose and nothing to gain, are rallying behind Humanity's worst warmongers, Obama, Clinton, Trump and Blair. Whether a yank thinks him/herself to the right or the left, their party of choice is one demanding war on Russia, Iran and China.
Russia's response when the satanic js murdered their reconaissance plane full of Russian miltary experts was one of jaw-dropped disbelief. After the atrocity (the form of satanic atrocity the js carry out against the Humanity of Gaza every day), the Russian's listed all the help they had given the js and asked in horror how the js 'gratitude' could take this form. Then they finally gave the Syrians the means to prevent the satanic js from terror bombing Syria.
What is happening between Russia and America, as typified in this story on Slashdot, is the same issue writ far far larger.
Russia bends over backwards to accomodate the USA- even to the point of allowing the US govenment to set up illegal satanic military bases in East Syria and watch as these bases continue to support the remnants of ISIS. Putin could throw the yanks out of Syria at any second - but chooses to tolerate the most depraved crimes against Humanity by the US military in Syria rather than call them out- all in the name of 'good' international relationships.
And what does Russia receive in return. A level of demonisation and illegal attack not even witnessed in the height of the Cold war.
So Putin says loudly and clearly "we Russians do NOT want war, but if America tries to bring war to us, we have the means to trivially destroy 100% of the USA- and no matter how much the Russian people suffer, we shall ensure our attackers are wiped from Human History". He rather hopes the USA takes the hint. But no- the Deep State merely ups its propaganda budget, and has its puppets like Slashdot turn up the warmongering rhetoric.
A LOT of sicko nutcase males on this site think
HA! Fuck you! I posted AC because I knew some damn democrat would come along and try to piss on the truth about their party. The moderators are the trolls here in these kinds of discussions.
Bernie is NOT a pure socialist; lets clear that up once and for all. His favorite countries to use as examples are roughly half socialistic and half capitalistic. He never said he wanted to get rid of ALL of capitalism. If you claim he did, please reference it.
I don't know why he uses that label; it freaks out too many. His phrase choice is poor political judgement in my opinion.
Maybe he just likes getting the right all frothed up* and doesn't really plan on being President. Hillary suggested something along these lines in her book, although it appears speculative rather than via clear documentation or usage of a certified mind-reading device. (If you have one, I wanna buy it.)
* I admit, I do. Sue me.
Table-ized A.I.
Treaty-wise, I don't know, but some fact-finder will render a decision and then we'll all know.
Right- and wrong-wise, I think it should be, for two reasons.
First, in a competitive election, it is simply not fair (to the voters) to expose the dirt of one party and not the other. I assume, and I think MOST Americans assume that there is terrible corruption and dirt present in both major parties. If you think that the Republican party is not hiding a bunch of dirt, please explicitly state that, because otherwise it is hypocritical.
Second, if, as seems likely at this point, these hacks were carried out by someone acting on behalf of the Russian government, then every American should be fighting mad. Agents of an adversarial power interfering in our elections? Are you kidding me? That's a violation of our sovereignty. And yes, I know that the US has a bad history of doing this to other countries. They also have every right to be royally pissed off at us for that.
DACA: direct action by President Obama to prevent the faithful enforcement of US immigration law. Aka, obstruction of justice, pure and simple.
My post here will undo moderation in this thread, so please believe that I mean this.
I do not normally find myself at odds with you on most issues, but I cannot believe you just wrote that. You can't reasonably force only one party to undergo extreme involuntary transparency and not see that as grossly unfair. I don't mean that as "stomp your feet and cry" unfair, I mean it more like "stuffing ballot boxes" unfair, or "paying cash for votes" unfair. That's not the American way (or, not the American way I learned about when I was a kid).
Couple that with the involvement of an adversarial foreign power.
How many people on your propaganda team worked on this?
What's with all of the spergy TL;DR Boomer posts whenever it's something relating to politics I thought these people were only on the Facebook containment zone.
the DNC has neutered the super delegates. They stopped short of eliminating them (old power structures are hard to kill completely) but they're basically gone baring a miracle.
But to be blunt, the DNC's shenanigans are tiny, tiny potatoes next to the Sheldon Primary
Basically, it's not just cheating that kept Bernie out of the Whitehouse. America has a ruling class. We don't like to acknowledge their existence, but they're there. And they're not shy about it either.
So the DNC delt a blow to that ruling class, but it was a pretty minor blow. At the end of the day they still choose most of the political candidates out there, and they'll continue to until Americans make refusing corporate PAC money a litmus test to get past the primary.
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
"The Russian Federation has responded to a lawsuit filed by the Democratic National Committee..."
...
"According to an 87-page indictment..."
The DNC is bringing forth this lawsuit, not the state, so it's not a criminal case but a CIVIL lawsuit. It even says so on page one of the documents posted, "Civil Action No. 1:18-cv-0350" and "AMENDED COMPLAINT" (emphasis from the original). Therefore, it can't be and indictment because that is only used in CRIMINAL cases brought forth by the state and not in civil cases. ZDNet therefore got their terminology wrong, either on purpose or accidentally. Either way, it is a basic point of law that even I caught at first glance.
Maybe they need to stop watching so much legal dramas on TV. Heaven knows those get it wrong all the time. If you can't get something this basic right, how can we trust your "legal analysis" on anything else?
Beware of Sales Reps bearing gifts.
Since I didn't claim that he's a "pure" socialist (though I bet he was a lot more socialist in 1988 than in 2016), your attempt at a straw man argument fails miserably.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
and we can talk about it.
But, no. I am talking about when we show the best that is within us, not the worst.
Satanic bullshit aside...they do make some good points.
Does this apply to the DNC itself too? The RNC? Are they obligated to release their own dirt? How do you claim to enforce that? I don't know what the RNC is hiding, but it seems odd to reverse the burden of proof like that.
What are you talking about? I didn't say anything like that. Someone stole emails that exposed DNC dirt. DNC is suing Russian nationals over it. ShangaiBill made a comment that seemed to blame the DNC for having dirt. THAT'S what I responded to.
Also, the media is doing a fine job of leaking dirt on Trump. Why do they need Russian help again?
Moreover, the main thing the DNC was guilty of was rigging their own primaries. We know the RNC isn't doing that because we got Trump, the weakest candidate.
The media isn't leaking Trump dirt, they're reporting it. But this is all coming out now, after the election, rather than before, which is when the DNC got hit. Completely different thing.
Not at all. I want the dirt on everyone released. The media is already doing a good job on releasing Trump's dirt on their own, I don't think they need Russian help. But the fact that they ignored all the DNC dirt bothers me.
They didn't ignore all the DNC dirt. The media is where I learned that Hillary's campaign management was running the money for the national party, which is how she took the nomination. The media is where I learned about the whitewater bribes and where I learned about her date-rapist husband. The media is where I learned that Obama had an American citizen assassinated overseas. They aren't ignoring DNC scandal. Wake up.
I'm sorry, but these complaints seem hypocritical to me. Showing us how you'll excuse your own side for the sake of power is why we mistrust you, you know. Overreacting to silly memes and wanting to ban free speech just makes you look like tyrants. You can wax poetic about Putin all day, but he's not the one convincing us that you're untrustworthy with power, you're doing a fine job of that yourself with the overreactions.
And here you just went off on some alternate reality. I don't know what the f you're talking about. You keep accusing me of political positions I don't hold.
You Are An Idiot Though
Now that the sublime has passed.
All we can do now is just enjoy the show.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
agreed.
How do you keep all those contradictions in play at the same time?
For someone who's not a socialist, he sure has a lot of repugnant friends who are socialists and holds America in contempt just like a socialist.
"These days, the American dream is more apt to be realized in South America, in places such as Ecuador, VENEZUELA and Argentina, where incomes are actually more equal today than they are in the land of Horatio Alger. Who's the banana republic now?"
--Bernie Sanders
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Why don't you just ask the president's underlings what evidence made them decide to plead guilty, or worse, go to court and be found guilty. The evidence is so substantial and compelling that some of Trump's associates have already agreed to years of jail time and millions of dollars in fines and seizures, but you think they all keep folding for no reason at all, huh?
And I guess it was just "fake news" when the president admitted on "Fox and Friends" that he deliberately attempted to obstruct justice, with premeditated criminal intent. But I understand, you don't believe what the president says (who would?) so therefore, as long as the president is totally lying about the crimes he says he committed, he must be innocent.
BTW, I agree with you, that the president didn't know about his son's and son-in-law's and campaign manager's meeting at the president's own hotel with the now-proven colluders. No way he knew. The times that he said he knew about it, he was lying. Because there's just no evidence that the president was telling the truth when he said that he set up the meeting with the intent to collude with the Russians. The president totally made it up, because he was trying to start a "witch hunt" and he has been laughing hysterically every time it convicts yet another witch. When the president's lies about conspiring to commit a crime end up framing his own son, that is going to be the best prank ever! "Gotcha, Junior!" he'll say, they'll all laugh, and then the president will recant his own already-given testimony that he conspired with his son. "For the last two years, every time I admitted (in public, on TV!) my part in these crimes, I was kidding! Fake news!"
US inequality and lack of cross-class mobility is embarrassing. If you don't recognize your country's faults, you won't improve. Blind love of country is irrational. (Venezuela got addicted to and burned by oil, something GOP also wants.)
Table-ized A.I.
Then why does the socialist Left spit on our working class and call them deplorable? Let's be honest: there is a huge problem with the socialist Left shitting all over them. And yet these same people pretend to represent the working class? Makes zero sense.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
No Zippy no one plead guilty to election law violations or working with the Russian government or anything to do with the 2016 election. In fact no one was charged with any election law violations. Period.
Moron.
Two plea deals, one PROVEN GUILTY in a court of law.
Moron indeed
Note that you have no refutation of the well documented fact that he reported. Just because Venezuela has been targetted for collapse by the CIA for the past 30 years doesn't mean socialism is bad. Socialism is literally the entire reason the internet can (and does!) exist. Ironically, DNS and BIND are both 100% pure communist software that you advertise in your username! I and millions of others around the world knowingly and lovingly contribute to socialist software (OSS) on a daily basis.
To say that socialism cannot work is to also say that the entire planet can run off of Microsoft software. Not even the most hardcore MS fanboy can say that with a straight face.
That's not an indictment. Indictments are criminal proceedings. This is a civil suit---it says so on the very first page.
Note that the party is the DNC, not a state or federal agency. Criminal prosecutors file indictments for serious crimes with serious consequences. Civil actions are slap-fights over money, and that's what this is.
If you scroll down to the "Prayer for Relief" on p. 69, you'll see that, yes, all claims are relieved by money, money, and more money (plus a court order telling the defendants not to do it again).
---
According to the latest ruleset, this post should be modded as Vorpal Flamebait +5.
Do I smell bigly hypocrisy and/or projection? I thought being polite & PC was made unfashionable by T.
Who specifically insulted the "working class"?
Table-ized A.I.
Why call somebody "X the socialist" if they are not pure socialist (or very close to)? That makes no sense to me. Please explain.
Table-ized A.I.
For the same reason you call someone a capitalist even if they aren't a "pure" capitalist: because the world isn't cut and dry.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
If it doesn't improve communication in its context, either skip it altogether, or qualify it with specifics and details.
Table-ized A.I.
That it is the CIA's and NSA's job to fuck over the whole world.
This is good. You deserve it, Americans.
Seem to remember you lying quite a bit.
In 1960, an American family of four with one working class income could afford a home, a car, three square meals a day, and all the other requirements of a decent lifestyle. In 2010, fifty years later, an American family of four with one working class income was struggling to avoid living on the street if they weren't already there. This didn't happen by accident, nor was it the product of impersonal economic forces. It was the result of specific, easily identifiable policies carried out by a bipartisan consensus and backed to the hilt by the privileged classes across the political spectrum.
The good people, the morally virtuous people, thus enthusiastically supported policies that plunged tens of millions of Americans into destitution and misery. In the usual fashion of aristocracies, furthermore, they insisted that the policies that benefited them were the only moral options, and that anyone who objected to them could only be motivated by deliberate evil. For those inside the self-referential bubble of elite culture, it all seemed so straightforward: the sufferings of those people whose interests aligned with those of the privileged were all-important and had to be addressed, while the sufferings of those crushed by policies that benefited the privileged were their own fault and didn't matter anyway.
It's funny. Trump has delivered what the Dems have wanted for decades. That is, that trade deals require foreign workers to be paid closer to American wage scales. The Dems, by all right, should be applauding this deal. But they are so consumed by hate that they can't even be happy when they win. But then they long ago abandoned their working class base in favor of idiotic identity politics. So they probably don't even know they won.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Recognizing your own faults is fundamentally different from thinking that income equality makes a country successful.
"I don't know, therefore Aliens" Wafflebox1
trade deals require foreign workers to be paid closer to American wage scales.
Which deal are you talking about, and can you point to the specific relevant clause(s)? AFAIK no deal Trump has made does that. The new NAFTA deal has clauses that each country has to enforce their own labor laws (which includes laws on wages), and that those laws should meet some international minimums, but nowhere does that say Mexico has to raise their minimum wage to anywhere near the US.
The one link I found that claims Mexico will be somehow "limited" - a rather vague claim, and without deeper explanation or evidence - is from Fox News singing praises about the deal. Hardly a trustworthy source.
Hey, ShitCone, how many time I gotta serve you up a beatdown?
Are you referring to Obama, the Deporter in Chief?
If Trump was so serious about illegal immigration, why is he only concerned with the Mexican border? What about the other 50% of undocumented migrants that aren't coming through Mexico?
Let's make a deal - how about you keep crying your White Tears, while we investigate the living shit out of your president, until we rip him out office?