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NASA Chooses the Landing Site For Its Mars 2020 Rover Mission (techcrunch.com)

Five years and sixty potential locations later, NASA has chosen the Jezero Crater as the landing site for its Mars 2020 rover mission. "Slated to launch in July the Mars 2020 rover mission will touch down at the Jezero Crater as NASA's exploration of the Red Planet enters its next phase," reports TechCrunch. From the report: The rover will be looking for signs of habitable conditions -- and past microbial life -- while also collecting rock and soil samples that will be stored in a cache on the Martian surface. "The landing site in Jezero Crater offers geologically rich terrain, with landforms reaching as far back as 3.6 billion years old, that could potentially answer important questions in planetary evolution and astrobiology," said Thomas Zurbuchen, associate administrator for NASA's Science Mission Directorate, in a statement. "Getting samples from this unique area will revolutionize how we think about Mars and its ability to harbor life."

The crater is located on the western edge of Isidis Planitia, a giant impact basin just north of the Martian equator, with some of the oldest and most scientifically interesting landscapes Mars has to offer, according to NASA scientists. Mission scientists believe the 28-mile-wide crater once held an ancient river delta, and could have collected and preserved organic molecules and other potential signs of microbial life from the water and sediments that flowed into the crater. NASA thinks it can collect up to five different kinds of Martian rock, including clays and carbonates that may preserve indicators of past life. There's also the hope that minerals have been swept into the crater over the last billion years which Rover could also collect.

58 comments

  1. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: -1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  2. GAY NIGGER ASSOCIATION OF AMERICA ASSPUSSY LOVE by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1
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  3. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: -1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  4. TRUMP by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    Ugh!

    What is he good for?

    ABSOLUTELY NOTHIN!

    Say it again!

  5. Re:Happy Kwanzaa, Slashdead! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    ADOLPH HITROLL REPORTING FOR MURDER!

              .,:codk0O'                  ';cldkO0l
             ,NMMMMMMWl                 .kMMMMMMM0.
            .0MMMMMMMk                  oWMMMMMMN,
            xMMMMMMMK.                 ;NMMMMMMWl
           cWMMMMMMN:                 .KMMMMMMMk
          'XMMMMMMMd                  xMMMMMMMK.
         .OMMMMMMMO.                 cWMMMMMMN;
         oWMMMMMMX'                 ,XMMMMMMWo
        ;NMMMMMMWc  ..,:c;         .0MMMMMMMO. ..';:l.
       .KMMMMMMMW0KXWWMMN;         dMMMMMMMMX0XNWMMMx
       kMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMWo         :WMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM0.
      oWMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMx         'XMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMX'
    cWMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM0.        .0MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMW:
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    .,..    ;NMMMMMMWl          '...   .OMMMMMMMO.
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           xMMMMMMMK.                 ;NMMMMMMWc
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        dMMMMMMMX'                 ,NMMMMMMWo
       :WMMMMWNK:                 .0MMMMMWNx.
      .ldlc;'..                   ;doc:,'.

  6. Heil Hitlery! by SIEG++HEIL · · Score: -1
    One cannot shoot with butter, but with guns.
    ~Joseph Goebbels~

    l . . lnazina
    l . . l . . .
    l . . l . . .
    lnazinazinazi
    . . . l . . l
    . . . l . . l
    nazinal . . l


    • l . . lnazina
      l . . l . . .
      l . . l . . .
      lnazinazinazi
      . . . l . . l
      . . . l . . l
      nazinal . . l

      “The stronger must dominate and not mate with the weaker, which would signify the sacrifice of its own higher nature. Only the born weakling can look upon this principle as cruel, and if he does so it is merely because he is of a feebler nature and narrower mind; for if such a law did not direct the process of evolution then the higher development of organic life would not be conceivable at all.”
      ~Adolf Hitler~

      l . . lnazina
      l . . l . . .
      l . . l . . .
      lnazinazinazi
      . . . l . . l
      . . . l . . l
      nazinal . . l

      Would you rather have butter or guns? Preparedness makes us powerful. Butter merely makes us fat.

    1. Re:Heil Hitlery! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      Die Volker werden in kurzer Zeit erkennen, da? das nationalsozialistische Deutschland keine Feindschaft mit anderen Volkern will, da? alle die Behauptungen
      uber Angriffsabsichten unseres Volkes auf fremde Volker entweder aus krankhafter Hysterie geborene oder aus der personlichen Selbsterhaltungssucht einzelner Politiker
      entstandene Lugen sind, da? diese Lugen aber in gewissen Staaten gewissenlosen Geschaftemachern zur Rettung ihrer Finanzen dienen sollen, da? vor allem das
      internationale Judentum damit eine Befriedigung seiner Rachsucht und Profitgier erreichen zu hoffen mag, da? sie aber die ungeheuerlichste Verleumdung darstellen,
      die man einem grossen und friedliebenden Volk antun kann.
      vcxz vcxz vcxz vcxz    jt
      vcxz vcxz vcxz vcxz  jDMMQt
      vcxz vcxz vcxz vcxzcXMNPQMMQj
      vcxz vcxz vcxz   cSMNPQMNPQHJ
      vcxz vcxz vcxz  SWMNPQMMMHJ
      vcxz vcxz vcxz6WMNPQMMMNY vcxz   Jc
      vcxz vcxz   5WMNPQMMMN5 vcxz   JHMMSc
      vcxz vcxz 5NMNPQMMMW5 vcxz   JHMNPQMWS
      vcxz vcxzcXMNPQMNPQNY vcxz tKMNPQMNPQMW6
      vcxz vcxz  jDMNPQMNPQHJ  tQMNPQMNPQMNPQMW5
      vcxztc vcxz  jQMNPQMNPQKDMNPQMNPQQWMNPQMMMN5
         tKMWS vcxz   jQMNPQMNPQMNPQMMQt  SWMNPQMMMNY
      tQMNPQMW6 vcxz   tKMNPQMNPQMMKt vcxzcSMNPQMNPQHJ
      JHMNPQMMMW6 vcxz cSMNPQMNPQMMDj vcxz  cXMNPQMMN5
         YNMNPQMMMN5   SWMNPQMNPQMNPQMDc vcxz  cDMMW6
      vcxz5NMNPQMMMNSWMNPQMMMHNMNPQMNPQXc vcxz  j5
      vcxz  5WMNPQMNPQMNPQMN5  5NMNPQMNPQSc
      vcxz    6WMNPQMNPQMW5 vcxz 6WMNPQMMMWS
      vcxz vcxz SWMNPQMW6 vcxz   tKMNPQMNPQXc
      vcxz vcxz  cSMMWS vcxz   tQMNPQMNPQDj
      vcxz vcxz    c6c vcxz  jQMNPQMNPQQj
      vcxz vcxz vcxz vcxz  jDMNPQMNPQQt
      vcxz vcxz vcxz vcxzcXMNPQMNPQKt
      vcxz vcxz vcxz vcxzjQMNPQMMHJ
      vcxz vcxz vcxz vcxz  tKMMHJ
      Denn immerhin haben z. B. noch niemals deutsche Soldaten auf amerikanischem Boden gekampft, ausser im Dienste der amerikanischen Selbstandigkeit und Freiheitbestrebungen, wohl ber hat man amerikanische Soldaten nach Europa geholt, um eine grosse, um ihre Freiheit ringende Nation mitabwurgen zu helfen. Nicht Deutschland hat Amerika angegriffen, sondern merika Deutschland, und wie die Untersuchungskommission des amerikanischen Reprasentantenhauses es festgestellt hat: ohne jede zwingende Veranlassung, nur aus kapitalistischen runden. vcxzUber eines soll sich aber dabei jedermann klar sein: Diese Versuche konnen vor allem Deutschland nicht im geringsten in der Erledigung seiner Judenfrage beeinflussen. vcxzch mochte zur judischen Frage folgendes bemerken: vcxzEs ist ein beschamendes Schauspiel, heute zu sehen, wie die ganze Welt der Demokratie vor Mitleid trieft, dem armen equalten udischen Volk gegenuber allein hartherzig verstockt bleibt angesichts der dann doch offenkundigen Pflicht, zu helfen. Die Argumente, mit denen man die Nichthilfe entschuldigt, prechen nur fur uns Deutsche und Italiener.

  7. Exciting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will the rover arrive with a selfie stick?

    1. Re:Exciting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better. With a selfie drone!

    2. Re: Exciting by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes!

  8. Re:Happy Kwanzaa, Slashdead! by SIEG++HEIL · · Score: -1

    How do you keep the following from happening? Code tag, nbsp, br, and everything. It strips out the spacing and RUINS my attempt at spreading Schutzstaffel awareness. Pastebin linken, bitte.

    .,:codk0O' ';cldkO0l
    ,NMMMMMMWl .kMMMMMMM0.
    .0MMMMMMMk oWMMMMMMN,
    xMMMMMMMK. ;NMMMMMMWl
    cWMMMMMMN: .KMMMMMMMk
    'XMMMMMMMd xMMMMMMMK.
    .OMMMMMMMO. cWMMMMMMN;
    oWMMMMMMX' ,XMMMMMMWo
    ;NMMMMMMWc ..,:c; .0MMMMMMMO. ..';:l.
    .KMMMMMMMW0KXWWMMN; dMMMMMMMMX0XNWMMMx
    kMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMWo :WMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM0.
    oWMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMx 'XMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMX'
    cWMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM0. .0MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMW:
    'XWNX0OxdXMMMMMMMN, xWWNKOkdOMMMMMMMMd
    .,.. ;NMMMMMMWl '... .OMMMMMMMO.
    .KMMMMMMMk oWMMMMMMX'
    xMMMMMMMK. ;NMMMMMMWc
    cWMMMMMMN; .KMMMMMMMx
    'XMMMMMMMo kMMMMMMMK.
    .0MMMMMMMO. lWMMMMMMN;
    dMMMMMMMX' ,NMMMMMMWo
    :WMMMMWNK: .0MMMMMWNx.
    .ldlc;'.. ;doc:,'.

  9. Comment removed by account_deleted · · Score: -1

    Comment removed based on user account deletion

  10. Re:Happy Kwanzaa, Slashdead! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    This looks like a pair of BeauHD's unusually short YY chromosomes trying to untangle themselves and becoming even more knotted.
     
    An epsilon minus semi-moron indeed.

  11. Re:Happy Kwanzaa, Slashdead! by Ol+Tampon++(.)+(9) · · Score: -1

    Hitroll...are you the Hitroll? BisexualPuppy?

  12. lol i fail by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

      1. ADOLPH HITROLL REPORTING FOR MURDER! .,:codk0O' ';cldkO0l ,NMMMMMMWl .kMMMMMMM0. .0MMMMMMMk oWMMMMMMN,

                        xMMMMMMMK. ;NMMMMMMWl

                      cWMMMMMMN: .KMMMMMMMk

                    'XMMMMMMMd xMMMMMMMK. .OMMMMMMMO. cWMMMMMMN;

                  oWMMMMMMX' ,XMMMMMMWo ;NMMMMMMWc ..,:c; .0MMMMMMMO. ..';:l. .KMMMMMMMW0KXWWMMN; dMMMMMMMMX0XNWMMMx

              kMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMWo :WMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM0.

            oWMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMx 'XMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMX'

        cWMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM0. .0MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMW:

        'XWNX0OxdXMMMMMMMN, xWWNKOkdOMMMMMMMMd .,.. ;NMMMMMMWl '... .OMMMMMMMO. .KMMMMMMMk oWMMMMMMX'

                      xMMMMMMMK. ;NMMMMMMWc

                    cWMMMMMMN; .KMMMMMMMx

                  'XMMMMMMMo kMMMMMMMK. .0MMMMMMMO. lWMMMMMMN;

                dMMMMMMMX' ,NMMMMMMWo :WMMMMWNK: .0MMMMMWNx. .ldlc;'.. ;doc:,'.

  13. Nasa sending a dog to mars? by wolfheart111 · · Score: 1

    Our first Martian colonists... :)

    --
    [($)]
    1. Re:Nasa sending a dog to mars? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey, it worked for THE RUSSIANS!!!!

      Hey, BeauHD, you fucking missed a RUSSIA! RUSSIA! RUSSIA! story. You're a failure!

    2. Re:Nasa sending a dog to mars? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Had you not been snarky and condescending I would have modded you up for the interesting link.

  14. They chucked a dart at a mars globe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    fairly sure I could do this also

  15. Devon Island, on Earth, same as last time... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And don't hold your breath waiting for NASA to "return" to the Moon, either...

    1. Re:Devon Island, on Earth, same as last time... by johnsie · · Score: 1

      Bet you think the earth is flat too

  16. Earth to NASA... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: -1

    You already got rovers on Mars!

    Defund these lunatics and lower taxes.

    1. Re:Earth to NASA... by GoTeam · · Score: 2

      I understand you are not really interested in a discussion, but how much money do you think the average citizen would save if the NASA budget were cut? It represents somewhere around 0.5% of the total government budget. If they cut NASA and returned that portion of taxes to the public, it would hardly be noticeable.

  17. humans by sad_ · · Score: 2

    by the time humans ever get to set foot on mars, it will be already swamped by rover-robots.

    --
    On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
  18. How About All The Sites? by mentil · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Instead of spending 5 years trying to decide which of 60 locations to send a rover to, how about building 60 rovers and sending one to each site? Just getting cameras on the ground would help tremendously, as opposed to staring at vague pixels of satellite imagery, trying to decide if something is interesting like H2O, or an ordinary optical phenomenon. We really ought to be sending a dozen cheap rovers to Mars annually, the ongoing mission costs are minuscule. The amount of budget they (are mostly forced to) waste on rocketry annually would more than pay for it. Blue-sky rocket research, fine; paying $billions to develop a rocket that will be made obsolete by the competition by the time it flies, not so much.

    --
    Corruption is convincing someone that the selfless ideal is the same as their selfish ideal.
    1. Re:How About All The Sites? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      You apparently think the job of NASA is space exploration. It is not. The job of NASA is enriching the bank accounts of NASA managers and government contractors. That blue-sky rocket research is very welcome among those who rely on it for continued lucrative employment.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    2. Re:How About All The Sites? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The weight at one location is triple weight of what you'd need at 60 static locations - not 60x. And getting to Mars is a 1/4-1/10 the cost of a Mars explorer. Better to have a light-weight single monolith that can move to various interesting places and perform science along the way.

    3. Re:How About All The Sites? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Informative

      Because sending a rover costs far more than deciding where to land it. They only have the budget for one rover, so getting maximum value is rather important.

      Cheap rovers don't really exist. Most of the cost is not building the rover, it's getting it to Mars, landing it and supporting it while it operates there.

      Even sending multiple rovers a year doesn't make sense. The energy and time required to get to Mars varies based on its position relative to the Earth, so you might as well wait for it to be in a good location.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    4. Re:How About All The Sites? by religionofpeas · · Score: 2

      the ongoing mission costs are minuscule

      We don't have the bandwidth to support 60 rovers at one time, nor the manpower to look at all the data and decide where to send it next.

    5. Re:How About All The Sites? by johnsie · · Score: 2

      That would require hiring an army of people, to build and launch the rover. They'd also need teams of highty skilled people to monitor the activity of each one.

    6. Re:How About All The Sites? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, I'm not feeling a real sense of urgency on getting people onto Mars. We should be acting like there's a mega asteroid hurtling toward Earth and making fast, significant progress. It will take years to make Mars habitable, so let's start shipping supplies, tools, mining robots, etc. to get a jump on it.
      Meanwhile back on Earth, we have billionaires and mega corps patting themselves on the back for being the biggest fish in the pond which may well dry up one of these days, doing nothing to help.

    7. Re:How About All The Sites? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better to have a light-weight single monolith that can move to various interesting places and perform science along the way.

      No, because individual rovers cannot move very far or very fast. It takes them years to go a few kms.

      It is much better to have a large number of small rovers distributed all around the planet in regions of varying geography.

    8. Re:How About All The Sites? by MooseTick · · Score: 1

      "We should be acting like there's a mega asteroid hurtling toward Earth"

      Why?

      And if this were true, it would still be easier to survive 100ft below the surface of the Atlantic/Pacific ocean than anywhere on Mars. There is water, food, easy access to air, gravity we are accustomed to and more. And even if an asteroid the size of the Yucatan impact were to happen, many underwater facilities scattered around the world would likely survive. I have much less faith in a Mars colony being self sustaining without putting out 1000 times as much effort to set it up. And we honestly have no idea if they will ever have the raw materials needed to sustain indefinitely. Also, anyone second generation and beyond will not even be the same as us. Their development in 37% of Earth's gravity would not ever allow them to visit their home planet. 4-5 generations out (if humans could survive that far without procreative restricting defects) would effectively be a new race.

      I honestly believe humans would stand a greater chance of living indefinitely on-board a huge spaceship with artificial gravity, and just visiting places like the moon, Mars, or some asteroid for raw materials as needed.

    9. Re:How About All The Sites? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      They only have the budget for one rover

      Because they decided to make it a 2.5 billion one instead of a 400 million one.

      Most of the cost is not building the rover, it's getting it to Mars, landing it

      The cost of the landing is a part of the cost of the building the rover. The landing equipment is a part of it. As far as getting to Mars is concerned, these days, you can send ten MER class rovers to Mars in a single launch on a Falcon Heavy for, say, $150 million or so.

      and supporting it while it operates there

      They kind of screwed the pooch when it comes to satellites at Mars. Once they fix that problem, things will get much easier for multiple rovers.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    10. Re:How About All The Sites? by K.+S.+Kyosuke · · Score: 1

      Now that's a vicious circle, if I've ever seen one. You don't have the bandwidth, so you don't send more rovers, and then you won't upgrade bandwidth because you've only sent one.

      --
      Ezekiel 23:20
    11. Re:How About All The Sites? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      All good ideas. Unfortunately, humanity isn't doing any of those things. So the basic point stands.

    12. Re:How About All The Sites? by dev-in-seattle · · Score: 1

      Better to have a light-weight single monolith that can move to various interesting places and perform science along the way.

      No, because individual rovers cannot move very far or very fast. It takes them years to go a few kms.

      It is much better to have a large number of small rovers distributed all around the planet in regions of varying geography.

      Best rover is many powerful rovers. But think about how much overhead there is the heat shield and retro rockets. You can't have 60 small ones, cause the rocket overhead would be huge (ie each rover has a rocket and fuel and heatshield to slow down). There's not enough atmosphere to drop a bunch of parachutes at high altitude to distribute them. But maybe there's some possibility of having 2 of them in one landing or a small number.

    13. Re:How About All The Sites? by dev-in-seattle · · Score: 1

      The cynical view might be that the job of nasa is space exploration, manned and unmanned, along with putting jobs in the towns that powerful senators and reps represent. There might be a few people who are doing useless work but that's not true across the large group of researchers.

      At the danger of distracting the conversation, yes, free speech should be supported. The exception to me is if that free speech is saying that someone should be killed or hurt, that's now useful or helpful. Saying you want to kill people who, hurt them, that's what we need to stop. Hopefully without giving myself away, I can say that I'm in a group that people openly said shouldn't be able to exist, vote, live, is a threat to the world, basically should die. Is there any purpose to allowing such speech? And I should say people in my group aren't advocating for anything other than to live our lives, and not be killed, destroyed, lose our voting rights, etc.

    14. Re:How About All The Sites? by dev-in-seattle · · Score: 1

      I volunteer myself for this job of rover software engineer. I'll even take half my current pay :-)

    15. Re:How About All The Sites? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      I hear ya buddy, I'm in that group too. The world thinks us right wingers shouldn't be able to exist and are a threat to the world. We've all got to stick together, because once they silence us that's when the real trouble starts. Keep your guns safe.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    16. Re:How About All The Sites? by cheekyboy · · Score: 1

      instead of total rover redesigns, make 10-20 rovers that are lighter.

      Then use $1b to order 10x FH launchers from spacex.

      NASA scientists need to think bigger for cheaper.

      --
      Liberty freedom are no1, not dicks in suits.
    17. Re:How About All The Sites? by dev-in-seattle · · Score: 1

      I'm not a right winger, if anything I'm a left winger. I'm just in favor of free speech, unless you threaten to hurt someone or say racist or sexist etc things.

    18. Re:How About All The Sites? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      Got news for ya buddy: free speech is an absolute. You're either free or not. And if you're on the left, you're definitely in favor of censorship and against free speech. Don't believe me? Try speaking out next time you're in a leftist echo chamber and watch how fast you get censored.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    19. Re:How About All The Sites? by VVRaven · · Score: 1

      That's interesting since I've been blocked and had comments deleted by right leaning people for saying negative things about capitalism, or talking about their long term prejudice against people who can't work. It's almost as if you're just trying to pigeonhole whatever negative behaviour you can think of to "the left". Getting blocked or banned from internet websites isn't a free speech violation by the way, if that's what you're trying to say.

    20. Re:How About All The Sites? by VVRaven · · Score: 1

      Where I live, we have a problem with right wingers for how badly they treat others, such us cutting people's needed support, under funding the healthcare system etc. They've brought it on themselves.

    21. Re:How About All The Sites? by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 1

      That's whataboutism, you didn't address the issue of leftist banning. You're not in favor of free speech and never were.

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
  19. Curiosity V2? by Isarian · · Score: 1

    Is this planned to be another large-scale rover like Curiosity?

  20. martian dogs by rojash · · Score: 1

    they can make the rovers into their pet martian dogs, if they still work.

  21. Current rover paradigm is obsolete by DanDD · · Score: 2

    Legacy launch costs were so high that Size, Weight and Power (SWaP) was everything. Putting cutting edge computing technology on a rover has never been a priority. These things are designed for reliability in harsh operating conditions and high radiation environments. Thus, to date rovers have been little more than marginally autonomous remote controlled science experiments.

    The James Webb Space Telescope could have been made out of machined billets of stainless steel and use a concrete heat shield, launched on a Falcon Heavy, and been cheaper and faster than the current program - all due to legacy SWaP limitations. I'm not suggesting JWST is poorly designed. Congress and NASA have mangled the budget and timeline of JWST to the point that it's become an unmanageable nightmare.

    Current planetary exploration missions like the Mars rovers have been designed around the SWaP available on the legacy launch platforms. It takes two Delta IV Heavy launches at $435 million each, or $870 million total, to put as much into orbit as a single $100 million Falcon heavy launch. BFR is just going to improve this calculation. Blue Origin will hopefully be successful in their reusable and low cost technology as well. A comparison of launch vehicles can be seen here.

    What this means is that we should be able to litter the surface of Mars with more capable rovers in the not too distant future. More capability may come with shorter lifespans - or with service intervals. Why spend a fortune making something that will last a decade when a more capable system can be deployed and replaced for a fraction of the cost?

    A human settlement on Mars will be able to make repairs and provide services and interact with rovers in ways that have never been possible, which will magnify the capabilities of both the rovers and the humans. Rovers send image and preliminary sensor data to the humans, who then request that the rovers return samples. The humans follow up with more detailed, harder to obtain samples, and perform analysis at more capable laboratories.

    What people lose sight of is that rovers are highly specialized, and specialization is for insects.

    Within one year on the surface of Mars the permanent presence of humans will yield orders of magnitude more scientific data than has been gathered in all the 42 years since the Viking program.

    --
    "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." - H. G. Wells
    1. Re:Current rover paradigm is obsolete by DerekLyons · · Score: 2

      What this means is that we should be able to litter the surface of Mars with more capable rovers in the not too distant future.

      In a future where rovers of any level of sophistication capable of surviving in a harsh environment are cheap... Sure. We aren't headed towards such a future.

      Why? Because even with newer, cheaper, launchers - size, weight, and power are still everything. The cheaper launchers are just that, cheaper. They aren't noticeably more capable. It's still going to take years to decades to design, build, and qualify the instruments and it's still going to require a small army (who must be paid) to operate the rover and process the data.

      Legacy launch costs were so high

      In a world where launch costs were more than a fraction of the total budget of a mission - you'd have a point. We don't live in such a world. Sophisticated equipment meant to survive and operate in a harsh environment with no chance of repair is expensive, and lowered launch costs won't change that. (Hint: There's a reason why Toughbooks are so much more expensive than ordinary laptops .)

    2. Re:Current rover paradigm is obsolete by DanDD · · Score: 1

      In a future where rovers of any level of sophistication capable of surviving in a harsh environment are cheap... Sure. We aren't headed towards such a future.

      I disagree. Falcon Heavy can loft two third's as much into orbit as a Saturn V. A Falcon Heavy is more than an order of magnitude less expensive in today's dollars than a Saturn V. It is also important to note that the Falcon Heavy will likely be a brief stepping stone to the much more capable BFR.

      We've not seen the results of these drastically lower costs and faster launch turnarounds in the market yet, but we will. Soon.

      --
      "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." - H. G. Wells
    3. Re:Current rover paradigm is obsolete by crunchygranola · · Score: 1

      I disagree. Falcon Heavy can loft two third's as much into orbit as a Saturn V. A Falcon Heavy is more than an order of magnitude less expensive in today's dollars than a Saturn V. It is also important to note that the Falcon Heavy will likely be a brief stepping stone to the much more capable BFR.

      We've not seen the results of these drastically lower costs and faster launch turnarounds in the market yet, but we will. Soon.

      In an apples-to-apples comparison is looks like the Falcon Heavy, once it flies, will be able to lift less than half what the Saturn V could lift:. 64 tonnes vs 140 tonnes.

      But more importantly tech nerds have a fixation on LAUNCH COSTS!!!, as being the great obstacle in all space flight, when it is space flight hardware itself that dominates the cost of nearly all missions. The Mars Science Laboratory mission, of which Curiosity was part cost $2.5 billion, but the Atlas V launcher only cost $109 million, or 4.4% of the mission cost. A free launcher would have made virtually no difference in the cost of the mission. This is typical of space missions.

      Additionally appealing the cost per kilogram of the largest launchers does little for typical missions that do not need that enormous payload. And no, you can't cram everything that needs to go into space into one humongous launch of dozens of different payloads. That could work occasionally, but they often require different orbits and launch schedules.

      --
      Second class citizen of the New Gilded Age
    4. Re:Current rover paradigm is obsolete by DanDD · · Score: 1

      In an apples-to-apples comparison is looks like the Falcon Heavy, once it flies, will be able to lift less than half what the Saturn V could lift:. 64 tonnes vs 140 tonnes.

      Ah, correct. Good catch. I botched a kg/tonnes/lbs conversion. Still, as I stated, Falcon Heavy is likely to be a short-term stepping stone to BFR, which is a much better comparison.

      But more importantly tech nerds have a fixation on LAUNCH COSTS!!!, as being the great obstacle in all space flight, when it is space flight hardware itself that dominates the cost of nearly all missions.

      I also disagree with your assessment. When launch costs are so high and margins for SWaP are so tight, space flight hardware cost goes way up. Any time NASA/JPL/LockMart make something, it's very, very expensive, and not likely to ever be a real, flexible, market-competitive product line - everything deployed so far have been very expensive one-offs of exotic materials and expensive engineering. Lower the launch cost dramatically, increase the capability dramatically, then
      you can make and replace space flight hardware much more cheaply.

      ... but the Atlas V launcher only cost $109 million, or 4.4% of the mission cost.

      While ULA's cost for an Atlas V launcher may have been $109 million, I challenge you to sift through their very clever accounting and show where any NASA launch cost so little. Also, that very clever accounting is hiding all the factors that have inspired both SpaceX and Blue Origin to enter the market, which boils down to cost and availability. I've sat across the table from a ULA CEO and listened to him frost their accounting with thick layers of bullshit. So, perhaps you are right, mission costs may have just as much to do with ULA's inability to compete openly and honestly just as much as launch costs.

      --
      "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." - H. G. Wells
    5. Re:Current rover paradigm is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      While ULA's cost for an Atlas V launcher may have been $109 million, I challenge you to sift through their very clever accounting and show where any NASA launch cost so little. Also, that very clever accounting is hiding all the factors that have inspired both SpaceX and Blue Origin to enter the market, which boils down to cost and availability. I've sat across the table from a ULA CEO and listened to him frost their accounting with thick layers of bullshit.

      to put as much into orbit as a single $100 million Falcon heavy launch

      Wait a minute, this is the same Elon Musk that can't compete on price with his over-priced Tesla golf carts?
      $35k Tesla Model 3 when?

    6. Re:Current rover paradigm is obsolete by DanDD · · Score: 1

      Yes, that very same Elon Musk.

      There will be no $35k Model 3 while the demand is much
      higher than the supply. Production goals are being met, but the backlog is not declining significantly. Economics is a thing, and Tesla is not a charity.

      If you think the $54k+ Tesla Model 3 is not competing or doing well in the market, then you really need to get out more. I saw several on my bike ride home this afternoon. Also, despite the market downturn TSLA is doing rather well, so your negative sentiment is not widely shared where it matters.

      --
      "Every time I see an adult on a bicycle, I no longer despair for the future of the human race." - H. G. Wells
    7. Re:Current rover paradigm is obsolete by DerekLyons · · Score: 1

      Falcon Heavy can loft two third's as much into orbit as a Saturn V.

      In a world in which we're hurling rovers around on Saturn V equivalents, that's relevant. We don't live in such a world.

      We've not seen the results of these drastically lower costs and faster launch turnarounds in the market yet, but we will. Soon.

      Still waiting on you to produce a mechanism by which this takes place. Not gonna hold my breath after noting how you dodged actually addressing the issues I raised in my first reply.

    8. Re:Current rover paradigm is obsolete by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If you think the $54k+ Tesla Model 3 is not competing or doing well in the market, then you really need to get out more.

      Too bad the Chevy Bolt is doing just as well.
      Tesla Model3 began taking orders Mar2016. To date ~80,000 sold.
      Chev Bolt began taking orders (and delivering) early 2017. To date ~50,000 sold.
      Since the Bolt has been "available" for about one year less than TM3, you could say ~75,000 sold had Chevrolet been taking pre-orders for that extra year like TM3.
      Also, comparably equipped, Bolt ~$43k (60 kWh, real leather, adaptive cruise, blind spot monitoring). TM3 ~$51k (62 kWh, fake leather, enhanced autopilot).
      Yes, that very same Elon Musk "inability to compete openly and honestly".

  22. Let me guess ... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1
    --
    It must have been something you assimilated. . . .