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Beijing To Judge Every Resident Based on Behavior by End of 2020 (bloomberg.com)
China's plan to judge each of its 1.3 billion people based on their social behavior is moving a step closer to reality, with Beijing set to adopt a lifelong points program by 2021 that assigns personalized ratings for each resident. From a report: The capital city will pool data from several departments to reward and punish some 22 million citizens based on their actions and reputations by the end of 2020, according to a plan posted on the Beijing municipal government's website this week. Those with better so-called social credit will get "green channel" benefits while those who violate laws will find life more difficult. The Beijing project will improve blacklist systems so that those deemed untrustworthy will be "unable to move even a single step," according to the government's plan. Xinhua reported on the proposal Tuesday, while the report posted on the municipal government's website is dated July 18.
BM did an episode on this.
Sounds like a great fucking system.
Remind me why we're doing business with these people again?
"A state where uniformity of purpose has been established for one year, will be strong for ten years; where uniformity of purpose has been established for ten years, it will be strong for a hundred years, where uniformity of purpose has been established for a hundred years, it will be strong for a thousand years; and a state which has been strong for a thousand years will attain supremacy."
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wik...
Dude, why go there? I happen to be trans and liberal and I'm horrified by this. This something right out of 1984 and it has nothing to do with "liberals". I'm quite sure I enjoy my freedoms and privacy as much as you do. I have no idea what you have against trans people but that doesn't mean we don't want the same things in life. The last place I would ever want to live is in a totalitarian state.
Good thing bureaucrats are incorruptible and would never abuse the system for a bribe or petty revenge. /s
This will be one of the greatest hacking targets in the world. Not to mention that putting the wellbeing of 1.4 billion people into a database means that even a small error in an edge case in the code can screw millions of people.
Soon one will have to wear a cap with electrodes and a receiver backpack transmitting the signals to the cap so all will be controllable. Anyone seen not wearing this equipment will be shot.
Must be very fearful and control character people thinking out this BS and not taking into account what the rebels will heck out to circumvent everything.....
Creating an entire subset of your society that is so locked out of daily life that they can't even function is a very, very quick way to incite organized resistance - not just out of ideological opposition, but from pure survival necessity. Blacklisted people will band together with blacklisted people to set up a parallel society so they can simply function day to day. Food? Housing? Transportation? You can't freeze out even 5% of the population from that and keep it contained.
If they were just making life difficult, that would be one thing, but it sounds like the Chicoms have gone so overboard that they won't be able to even eat or sleep under a roof. Watch it blow up.
What's the big deal? Just think of it like China is adopting a big Code Of Conduct, and people who don't behave accordingly will be blacklisted, but instead of just from open source software development, from life! Isn't that your tranny SJW end game? China just wants everyone to be polite and never say mean things and live harmoniously and respectfully. If a CoC is good for Linux, and Rust, and Ruby, and whatever else, why not just have whole country live under a wonderful CoC?
Obviously this is like a dystopian dream and will stifle the feeling of freedom. But we should keep in mind Beijing (and China in general) has some a lot of the sort of petty problems which more rarely happen in the west: Rampant littering. People encourage their children to urinate in the street. Scammers take advantage of tourists, brazenly acting in public places in broad daylight. Taxi drivers lie about the fare, or refuse to use the meter so they can set whatever rate they choose, depending on the passenger's skin color and accent. People get to the front of a queue not by waiting, but by walking to the front of the queue.
The questions that come to mind are whether it will work, whether this is temporary (until the above cultural problems are solved), and whether it's worth the loss in feeling of freedom.
A cat can't teach a dog to bark.
What happens in China is definitely a nightmare, but before we laugh at those stupid Chinese we ought to take stock of what is happening right here in the West.
We are being monitored too. 24/7.
What we do online.
Who our friends are/were.
Where we go shopping.
What kinds of item we usually buy.
The types of association / club we have membership in.
Whom we met last Wednesday.
Which TV / online streaming programs we consume.
And so on. And so forth.
Who is to say what's happening in China won't happen here?
Know how we solved it? Mostly cops giving out tickets. The scammers got arrested. Same results, maybe better, and no massive and terrifying misuse of government power.
China's problem is they treat their working class like crap. This is the kind of crap you have to resort to when you need to keep people from Unionizing.
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any day now. Yep. Any day now. Right after we stop selling bombs to the Saudis...
In other news, I can buy a 50" TV for $200 bucks this Black Friday. And the new iPhone is _sweet_.
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Same shit happened under McCarthy, which is ironic given your words. Could happen again in the US in a few years, only it would be an App that measured your Patriotism. It's not a left/right thing, it's a totalitarian thing.
Suppose the Chinese system only penalizes people who don't treat people with dignity? That's the great part about fighting nazis, like fighting child molesters, anything is justified! "but they're nazis!" is the new "think of the children!" You think you're fighting totalitarianism while enabling it at the same time.
The Chinese government already has this information. The difference now is the information is more open, more publicly available, it's actually a good thing.
"First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
I can see this backfiring somehow...
[($)]
It will fail, possibly taking their whole country with it if they integrate it heavily. Assuming their over leveraged economy doesn't take out the place first thanks to one belt, one road, one noose.
I actually think the underlying idea is good, but the motivation is all wrong here. The underlying idea is basically like a credit report on an individual or the investment-grade ratings issued by such companies as Moody's. I think the main problem is not with the ratings, but with the secrecy. In particular the public parts of the information should be available to the public without paying for the harvesting and various attempts to lock it down under copyright and other schemes.
Let me bring it home to Slashdot. I would like to know what sort of person you [piojo in this case] are so I can decide how much attention to pay to your comment. You might feel likewise before considering my reply. I actually think the generalized solution approach would be something I describe as MEPR (Multidimensional Earned Public Reputation) that would let me get a quick view of what sort of person you are, either from a default viewpoint or adjusted for my own priorities and concerns. (For example, the default might rate politeness relatively heavily, while I'm kind of thick-skinned as long as there's an interesting idea there.) Can you imagine fixing karma so it actually means something?
Unfortunately I think the objective of the dictators of China is just to create an easy way to keep track of troublemakers. It's actually quite like the Libertarians who wrote the book called Nudge , who want to play games to manipulate people with as little effort as possible. Or maybe I should appeal to Sun Tzu? Just read another book based on his classic.
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
Give me your tired
Your poor
Your huddled masses
With a good social credit score
Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
So they won't be judged based upon their thinking or clothing or reading?
That's good, isn't it?
Sent as ripples into the electromagnetic field. No single photon has been harmed in the process.
Blacklisted people will band together with blacklisted people to set up a parallel society
Yep! And then they will either be sent to re-education camps, or "disappeared".
China in fact would find it very HANDY for such people to band together, it would save them a lot of time.
If you want a 100% effective Panopticon, I can think of no better state on Earth that can make that happen by sweeping the undesirables under the rug.
So what everyone has to decide in the end is, do they want a model like that or a model like America? I'm not really sure there are any other workable models left.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Guess they don't care that fucking bullshit like this will drive some people to suicide, they've got over a billion people so I guess they don't give a shit if they lose a few hundred million of them when they lose their minds from stress and anxiety and commit suicide in any way they can manage, because who the fuck would want to live like that?
Yet another prime example of why, if there are indeed advanced, starfaring alien civilizations out there, that they don't bother talking to us or even letting on they exist: the fact that the government of a country that has about 18% of the total population of humans treats them like this is flat-out disgraceful and disgusting.
We have a FICO score, they have a Make-Commies-Happy score.
Table-ized A.I.
People invest in protecting what's important to them; that's why banks invest in vaults and rich people have guards for their families and properties.
The USA has a huge military budget because:
[1] it values its freedom and independence
[2] it values its allies and trade routes
[3] it costs the USA a lot more to get any measure of military might since it does not have a conscripted military and its materiel is not made by government suppliers.
The USA has not, historically, HAD a "health service" because we traditionally left health to the people themselves, the private sectore, and communities and states (The US Constitution says nothing about healthcare, and it explicitly says that anything it does not assign to the federal government belongs to the people and to the states).
A little knowledge is dangerous --- and by your posting I judge you "mostly harmless"
Anyone who gathers together to protest will be arrested in real time.
People near any illegal gathering will be watched.
Any news published about such events will be removed. The publisher will face travel bans and work bans.
Like the West having social media shadow banning content and accounts.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
High quality Chinese people who are willing to adopt a freedom first capitalist mindset are welcome in america.
Yeah because âoegoing privateâ for treatment isn't a thing...
And guess what. Even our private treatment is much cheaper than yours.
You literally have the worst health system in the world.
Yes it's true in the west we are also closely monitored.
However, there is a difference:
* In China you are monitored to make sure you fit within the system the government thinks is desirable.
* In the U.S. you are monitored but deviation from the system is simply recorded to be used against you if you get too out of line, or to sell things to you.
In actual terms you have much more freedom to be yourself in the U.S., it just means enduring more ads.
In both cases truly radical elements will have a harder and harder time existing and persisting.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
The US freedom of speech, freedom after speech, to peaceably assemble and the right to petition is looking great.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Reality will simply conform to expectation. I'd have thought all systems would converge on that.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
https://www.theguardian.com/so...
You're in good company, or bad company. That national health services aren't government run, just government financed, is probably beyond you.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
Only difference is in the US private companies keep scores on you instead of the government.
Well in China it is US companies, ex Google, helping to keep track of people on behalf of the Chinese government. Its only the US government that Google/Amazon/etc employees refuse to work for.
And you're certainly able to explain what this has jack all to do with a surveillance system that even Orwell couldn't make up?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
And they don't matter.
You have the freedom of speech. This is correct. But nobody is required to listen. You have the right to assemble peacefully, this is correct. But mostly because those in power noticed that it doesn't matter. You can petition what you want. Please leave your petition in the waste basket provided, we'll ignore it later.
Anything else you wanted to do or say?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Right! That has been the staple of commie countries for pretty much the past century (read: as long as commie countries existed). Let's praise the good worker and badmouth the bad kulak and the atrocious bourgeois. Let's have worker of the week/month awards with extra rations and preferred allocation of rare goods and luxury items like cars.
Why didn't it work, again?
Riiight, because nobody gave a fuck since those in power who were part of the supply chain could always simply take what they wanted even if they were the biggest assholes and you could get faster ahead by kissing the right butt instead of working your own off.
In other words, the system works in theory. But you shouldn't let it get into contact with human beings and their character.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
We all know that Orwell would say "OK, I give up. I was totally wrong, this is way more sophisticated a totalitarian system than I could dream up." We all happly carry our dobbleplusgood portable televisor around with us. Add a super-controlling engieered gouvernment to that, and you're way past 1984. Big time.
Maybe next time around I'll really ditch my regular smartphone for something else. I've allready considered stocking up on older Blackberrys. They're pretty cheap now.
We suffer more in our imagination than in reality. - Seneca
If nobody wants to listen, how can you be sure you were saying something?
Because it could be measured.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
Has similarity. A serious penalty, ex judicial, no right of appeal.
Only in the USA. No other democracy. It is very strange that the USA has the best constitution concerning rights and the worst record of actually providing them.
That said, it is still nothing like what China is proposing. And has already imposed on the Uyghurs. China is becoming very grim. Nobody there will dare to criticize the government on anything.
If Emperor Xi goes bad, he cannot be stopped domestically. And he can drag the whole world down with him.
They do not need mandatory GPS in cars. They already have number plate readers everywhere. Plus they can track your phone.
MaCarthy was an amateur. And he did not have the technology.
My friend Ben says you're an idiot.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
I had to spend the night in emergency in Guangzhou after suffering heatstroke. Clean, modern facility, up-date equipment, well-trained staff, doctors who'd studied at Johns Hopkins and Karolinska. Four hundred dollars (¥1600). That's about twice what I'd pay here in Sweden, but it's only about 1/100 of what it'd cost me in the US.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
s/1\/100/1\/10/
Sorry about that.
Il n'y a pas de Planet B.
You just have to report on your neighbors, and they report about you. Crowd-sourcing worked very well under the soviet communism.
how many points it will take before you get shot.
er.... erased.
This system will be heaven for people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder because they will be able to extend their abuse onto anybody they meet in a meaningful way. They will be able to charm and connive all of the social goodwill they need while causing serious damage to the people they abuse.
Social media is the vehicle for personality disorders to spread.
My ism, it's full of beliefs.
Dude literally stated that he's opposed to all of this as a liberal and you went and argued the exact opposite point because apparently either you cannot read or just enjoy building massive strawmen. How 'fun'. I can do this too, watch me:
"What's the big deal, China's just making sure no-one can openly criticize the Dear Leader or his party, and those who dissent too hard or belong to the wrong religion/ethnicity/political movement will be taken to 're-education camps' where if need be they can be killed and their organs harvested if some Good Loyal Citizens(tm) are in need of them, isn't that your ultra-conservative Trumpian end-game; to have the government be able to operate with impunity, above the rule of law and get rid of the pesky media that Trump calls 'the enemy'?"
See how easy this is? Now Is this productive for the discussion at large in any way? Nope. It's just 'ooh I'm so right they're so wrong aah' -partisan ego jerk off for cunts like you. Grow the fuck up man.
"It is the business of the future to be dangerous" -Alfred North Whitehead
Hack the thing. The hack could come from a government, or a private organization like WikiLeaks with an interest in causing chaos. Don't destroy it, just start slightly altering people's credit.
Just start lowering the credit of people with military training and access to guns a fractional amount. Veterans, police, military, etc. Make them slightly more angry and frustrated. Then start fractionally increasing the credit of people with borderline anti-government views. Create an angry underclass with military training and access to weapons while helping some of the people who will radicalize them do their thing.
... when this arrives in the USA. (It's already like China in the U.K. and many other European countries. We don't have free speech, and most of us work with idiots who are totally against free speech -otherwise known as Leftwingers, who are too stupid to debate their own position, and know they're wrong, but would rather get you sacked from your job, or even put in prison, for merely saying things they don't like.)
China is just the final stage of the denial of free speech.
"The denial of free speech is the first act of tyranny."
The Beijing project will improve blacklist systems so that those deemed untrustworthy will be "unable to move even a single step,"
So basically they will create a group of people who have nothing left to lose. Well done. That's going to work out great.
Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
1984 is an instruction manual....for CCP and Google.
See how our "progressive" overlords go high, arsholes first.
It's absolutely hilarious how all those progressive silicon types benefit from worker's exploitation and openly support totalitarian regimes.
Disgusting!
The Chinese are behind the curve. In the USA, we've had this rolled out for years.
https://www.moneycrashers.com/...
TL:DR
Loans are tough (or impossible) to get
If you get a loan, your rates are higher.
Can't rent an apartment (As a landlord, *I* check credit ratings)
Can't get some jobs (My employer checked my credit rating)
Can't get security clearance
You may not be able to get a cell phone contract
Higher insurance premiums
Trying to avoid the credit system is tough too. Try renting a car or buying an airline ticket without a credit card.
Please do not read this sig. Thank you.
of how to create an underclass in a country that is increasingly homogeneous.
See, in order for a ruling class to keep a working class in line they need to divide the working class. In America we do this along racial lines (Black/White/Latino). India uses a caste system. Japan got creative and declared some professions "unclean" and forced families into them, then kept lists of those families.
The goal here is to get you "kicking down". e.g. to direct your rage at the poor lot in life you got at a group below you, until you get to a small enough and low group that they're easily controlled. Like I said above, the pattern repeats again and again.
There's two problems with this in 2018.
1. Education. Well educated people don't see the point of hating on someone without reason; and China's been doing a massive education push.
2. Interbreeding. Folks don't enforce apartheid like they used to. So there's a gradual intermixing until the groups aren't distinct enough anymore. Japan made this work with their caste system, but that needed Buddhism to work, and even then education eventually broke it down. China's facing the same problem.
Giving everyone a "score" is a prefect way to create a new caste system and once again get everyone "kicking down".
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They seem to have no understanding that they are going to create a large and ever-growing underclass of "untouchables," who are disconnected and and resentful of the government and the system and everyone else in society. But then, we are talking about afraid and paranoid communism. What else would anyone expect?
E Proelio Veritas.
to weakening racism. The "Southern Strategy" is pretty well documented and it works, but it's not working with the young'uns as much. It's possible that workers might get past it.
The ruling class always hedges their bets. Have a look at this youtube channel. One of the complaints from him you'll keep seeing is how the "Alt-Right" has basically turned into a 24/7 anti-SJW network while turning away from the more generalized skepticism that drew a lot of folks into it.
The Clinton Democrats (I refuse to call them "The Left", they're not, they're right wing on economics, which is always what matters) use identity politics to distract from economic problems they can't address because their wealthy donors won't let them. The actual Right (organized under the banner of the GOP) are all about identity politics, mostly around the identity of being a White Male. Again, both groups are doing the same thing: divide and conquer.
The actual American Left, e.g. the "Berniecrats" are the only group trying to get away from identity politics and back to substantive policy. Pay attention to how they vote and what they say and this becomes clear. You will hear them talk about "diversity" but not for it's own sake; but rather for the practical consideration of preventing marginalized groups from being oppressed. Again, they're about policy, not wishy washy social mumble jumble Woo. For example, they support LGBTQ rights not because they want you to gay marry a turtle, but because they want LGBTQ folks to be able to participate equally in society.
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For a while there, I thought China had figured out how to apply the Nash Equilibrium to society via big data and the cognitive neuroscience of behavior.
Then I thought, it's China, dude. What's really going on is probably more of a game of "Fuck You, Buddy", where somebody's got to win, and if it isn't you, it might be me.
Oh, wait... that's us.
Never mind.
Everyone is quick to talk shit about McCarthy, but nobody seems to remember that he ended up being right about communist infiltration in our government, particularly in the state department.
This system will be China's undoing. The Chicoms will use this system for all sorts of ends.
Follow the money: if the Chinese elites were confident in the long term viability of China and these experiments why are they sending their hard earned cash abroad - much to the chagrin of the Chicom government?
Between the tariffs, these social engineering experiments, and the Chicoms constant pushing on the Taiwan issue, I expect a major event to occur in the next 2-3 years that will throw their 5, 10,15 year plans out the window.
Expect a war to follow, Xi will lose the mandate of heaven.
Part of what is wrong in the world today, is people like the OP, who apply logic so badly, they equate rape and murder with the equivalent of saying "our leader is bad."
"Liberalism is a very noble idea, currently controlled by some very bad people. Be sure you do not get the two confused.
Some of the commenters here actually get it, but those raised (indoctrinated) by the Bipolar TV/entertainment narratives won't be able to functionally comprehend the seriousness of China's uber-Orwellian Social Credit System!
Their Confucian Institutes --- their massive human rights abuses in the PRC, itself --- their OBOR strategy, that canal being built through Nicaragua, etc., etc., etc.!!!!
Recommended Reading:
China RX by Rosemary Gibson
Crack99 by David Locke Hall
People's Republic of the Disappeared by Michael Caster
Seems like a good idea on the surface, until you realize that this is designed to become an entrenched system that will enable those in power to easily and immediately shut down a persons entire life just by changing their status to 'DISHONORABLE". Toe the line, do as we say, or receive a dishonorable status that, as they even brag, "will prevent you from taking even a single step". Why can't they do it the good old fashioned American way, with sex scandals and accusations of racism?