US Asks Foreign Allies To Avoid Huawei (cnet.com)

The US government is reportedly trying to persuade its foreign allies' wireless and internet providers to avoid Huawei equipment. From a report: Officials have spoken to their counterparts and telecom bosses in Germany, Italy, Japan and other friendly countries where the Chinese company's equipment is already in use, the Wall Street Journal reported, citing unnamed sources. The US is reportedly particularly worried about the use of Huawei equipment in countries with American military bases, since most nonsensitive communication travels via commercial networks, and it's concerned about Chinese meddling.

Comments

So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[bill_mcgonigle]

You can't buy this kind of premium advertising.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[Freischutz]

You can't buy this kind of premium advertising.

I've had a couple of Huawei's 4G usb/wifi connectors. Thus far they have turned both turned out to be a complete and utter pile of crap so the US Govt. is preaching to the converted as far as I am concerned since I am already avoiding Huawei products like the bubonic plague.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[Zocalo]

Depends where the hardware is in your infrastructure and your levels of paranoia/security requirements. A lot of my clients run high-value networks (national infrastructure, etc.) and most are now moving towards dual-vendor perimeter firewall solutions, creating a physical DMZ in between, not the virtual ones you get by applying rules to traffic passing between internal different ports on the same firewall.

One vendor is typically from a Five Eyes country (there's only so many options for this kind of hardware), and the other absolutely will not be - internal firewalls may also be deployed. Rulesets on both with be default deny, and both will be actively monitored for suspicious traffic coming from the other as part of the standard IDS/IPS setup. Even if both are backdoored on behalf of their manufacturer's governments, it's going to be very hard for either country's security services to get into the network through both firewalls, or to successfully exfiltrate data from a compromised box on the inside.

Well, that's the theory at least. If one or both know about the other's backdoors (which is why this is such a terrible idea in the first place, because sooner or later they probably will) then all bets are off.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[mark-t]

Even if we assume that the Chinese have a backdoor into that equipment, it's better than the NSA/GCHQ having a backdoor into it.

Explain this reasoning.... how is a foreign backdoor preferable to a domestic one?

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[Anonymous Coward]

the foreign entities are outside of your jurisdiction

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[mark-t]

And how is that actually a preferable thing, when we are still talking about invading people's privacy?

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[mark-t]

I never meant to suggest that American spying should somehow be preferable. Obviously the ideal is no backdoors, but the post to which I responded *explicitly* made the assumption that the foreign phone would have a backdoor, and I was wondering why *THAT* would still somehow be preferred.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[fazig]

Let me use this hyperbole here.
What does you scare more? Hearing from some devastating natural disaster that's happening on the other side of the world. Or hearing from a devastating natural disaster that happening inside your country is headed your way?
Now I don't know how you would answer that question. But a lot of people would probably be more concerned when something like that goes down in their neighbourhood. Things that happen in your vicinity are a more immediate concern to most people.

Conversely we assume that if a foreign Government is spying on you - a civilian - who doesn't live in their jurisdiction can't be affected by their spying as much as badly as from your local authorities. And of course we also assume that these foreign governments do not share their intelligence with our own governments. Which of course is in no way certain. Of course if you're an employee working in sensitive areas, maybe concerning national security or involving things like trade secrets this may be a different issue.

Now this doesn't make being spied on by a foreign government a good thing. And these arguments reek of whataboutism. We ought to prefer nobody spying on us and ought to avoid any device that is suspicious in this way. But I hope this helps to understand why some people would rather let a foreign government spy on them than their domestic government.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[mermeid007]

Always Huawei. Is Huawei the only telecom device company in the known universe that they deserve this level of attention?

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[mark-t]

Except that backdoor is still in *YOUR* phone.... so all you've done by choosing a foreign device is brought the foreign "disaster" into your own neighborhood as well anyways.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[AmiMoJo]

Domestic spies can make my life much worse than ones who have no jurisdiction.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[Joce640k]

Even if we assume that the Chinese have a backdoor into that equipment, it's better than the NSA/GCHQ having a backdoor into it.

Yep. Unless you're a company who competes directly with Chinese imports or something.

For home use? Chinese all the way!

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[Joce640k]

Explain this reasoning.... how is a foreign backdoor preferable to a domestic one?

The Chinese government isn't going to try to arrest a US citizen in his own home, put them on a no-fly list because they read the Koran once, or whatever.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[invictusvoyd]

Open hardware .. "join us now and share the hardware.."

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[Opportunist]

What will the Chinese secret service do if I google the wrong topics?

And now, what will the NSA do?

And which of the two do you think will have more impact on my quality of life?

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[Opportunist]

Well, probably the only one that fails to grease the right palms.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[Anonymous Coward]

Or you just go with a different vendor like Palo Alto or Sonicwall which thus far have not been subject to these problems. Dual vendor firewall solutions are a nightmare scenario. Most companies can barely manage one firewall product much less a second product from an entirely different vendor.

This is why you deployed HIDS as well as NIDS and use a proper SIEM to alert you if any configurations are modified. NIDS will also find any hidden communications from your hypothetical supermicro server sending info back to China. It is a solved problem with a way simpler solution their you're proposing which would be a network disaster.

Internal firewalls are commonly deployed to keep workstations separate from servers because users really can't be trusted. Servers separated from different trust level servers is easily accomplished by using private vlans either in community mode or isolation mode depending on your level of paranoia. People that don't know better will often deploy additional firewalling between trust levels for servers but again, with HIDS and NIDS propery deployed it just adds needless complexity and probably makes your network perform like crap.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[mark-t]

Please explain how, exactly, a backdoor that is usable by the chinese could not also be usable by the NSA.

Leaks happen. Hacks happen. Backdoors are inevitably found, with enough time.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[larryjoe]

Even if we assume that the Chinese have a backdoor into that equipment, it's better than the NSA/GCHQ having a backdoor into it.

Explain this reasoning.... how is a foreign backdoor preferable to a domestic one?

Furthermore, if you're the Germans, who do you trust the least, the Americans or the Chinese? The Germans already have over 30,000 US soldiers on its soil that it willing supports. Would the Germans be willing to do that with the Chinese? The US has been outed spying on Germans, including Merkel herself, and yet Merkel has still emphasized the importance of future US-German intelligence cooperation. Would the Germans have that same attitude toward the Chinese?

And this is only considering political and military implications. I assume that the Germans are just as concerned as the Americans about Chinese industrial espionage.

Re: So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[reanjr]

How is it better? While legally speaking it's better I suppose, it seems to me I'd rather have my data abused to serve American interests rather than Chinese.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[fazig]

Yes, a backdoor is in your phone. Which in itself is a risk that ought to concern you, since it could be exploited by others as well. However that wasn't exactly the point of your question.
You don't bring the foreign "disaster" to your neighbourhood as you don't grant them jurisdiction over you or your neighbourhood just by owning a device that was compromised by them. So unless you plan to go to China yourself or some other place that puts you within the reach of Chinese authorities, what can they do to you? Blackmail?
Now think about what local authorities could do to you if they have some dirt on you. Then compare the two. On top of blackmail the latter can incarcerate you without issues, get a search warrant for your house and worse.

(Playing devil's advocate) that is the reasoning that I can see, despite the whole thing being a false dichotomy to begin with.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[Anonymous Coward]

If you're a US citizen, the NSA can snatch you out the stree, the Chinese government can't.
Boom.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[DNS-and-BIND]

Germany already made its choice after Trump withdrew from the Paris agreement. China is their future. Fuck America, fuck Trump.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[Freischutz]

Dammit! I've been trying to get (hold of) the bubonic plague for some time. Where are you avoiding it so I can get me some (lemme know in the comments' section).

CAP === 'parlor'

Over 80% of United States plague cases have been bubonic plague: https://www.cdc.gov/plague/map... ... now have fun with it.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[Cajun Hell]

You are more boring to a distant adversary who has a very weak relationship with you, compared to a nearby adversary who both rules over you and is also ruled by you. (e.g. The Austrialian government has more reason to fuck with Australians than the Austrian government does. And the Austrian government has more reason to fuck with Austrians than Australians.)

Re: So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[sound vision]

It's not so much that they won't cooperate. They are still providing services for American military bases, which are built (with permission usually) on foreign soil to begin with. What they are saying now is that they won't rebuild their *entire* infrastructure for the US military. If their goal is to be independent or even neutral, the goalposts are already in the wrong place.

They might get a miniscule PR bump from not going along with this backbone upgrade idea. We know Apple's shills still hammer on them not unlocking the San Bernardino terrorists' phones as an example of Apple's commitment to privacy. But whereas Apple's success is based heavily on branding, artificial market segmentation, PR shennanigans... Those things are way less important to whatever European ISP is in question. Not unimportant - but also not their bread and butter.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[mark-t]

But owing to the inherent insecurities that backdoors of *ANY* kind can cause, any backdoor that is usable by the chinese could be invaded upon by the NSA anyways, either because of leaks, or simply as the result of a successul hacking effort, etc.

There is no objectively justifiable rationale for preferring a foreign backdoor to a domestic one, and in some ways it could be worse in that it may impact your ability to travel as well.

The only justifiable reason I can see for thinking it is somehow better is based on a complete inverse reasoning of the expression "better the devil you know than one you don't", and actually preferring to have to deal with potentially unknown problems instead of ones that might somehow be in your purview, which seems entirely backwards to me.

Obviously the ideal is that there are no backdoors at all, but the post to which I responded suggested that a foreign one would somehow be preferable, comes across as irrational and reactionary to the mere existence of domestic backdoors rather than being based on a coherent and sound argument.

Re: So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[sound vision]

The "nightmare scenario" is that all the available hardware is riddled with backdoors - and we are already in this scenario.

If your network is important enough, and you don't have the resources to build your own equipment from the ground-up, layering is the only way to mitigate these hardware backdoors. You won't close them, oh no... But now an attacker needs to get through 2 doors instead of 1.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[jpaine619]

I agree that backdoors via either side aren't good. But I'd argue that China having a backdoor into your network is far worse. Why? Economic and Industrial espionage. The US Gov't isn't really in the business of spying for industrial espionage purposes. Yes, it has happened in the past and I suspect it will happen in the future, but China is HEAVILY involved. That's one of the pitfalls of state owned businesses. There is a serious incentive for their government to blur the lines between national spying and competitive spying.

Unless you are some business with strong national security implications the odds that the US Government is going to spy on you to steal your latest wifi design is... unlikely. China has a much stronger incentive to spy on you for purposes like that..

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[William Baric]

Because the Chinese government can't use any information it has on me against me. The Chinese government can't arrest me for wrongthink. That's why a foreign backdoor is preferable to a domestic one.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[Opportunist]

Well, considering that all that crap is made in China anyway, it essentially means that the NSA has to jump over one more hurdle to get to my data. China has it anyway.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[WindBourne]

If you live in America, come to the Western states and go look for prairie dogs during the summer. If you see dead ones located about 100' or more away from the colony, then you have found it.
Otherwise, you can go to any undeveloped nation and find it in various mammals.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[WindBourne]

juno.
Your own locally made switches and routers.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[WindBourne]

Here. Watch this, esp. the end where they Chinese spy gets incriminating evidence on an America so that he can FORCE him to spy for him.
China and Russia do this heavily. And if you think that a foreign backdoor is preferable to a domestic one, then you have NO clue of what is going on in the world. At times, I wish that ppl like you could see/hear some of what goes on. You would understand that in general there is a real reason why the western nations, along with Japan/S. Korea, are banded together and deals with the same groups the same way.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[mark-t]

Assuming they are backdoored by the chinese government, people would still be handing over information gratis to them, and China is, at the end of the day, considered a competitor to the USA.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[WindBourne]

No. The Chinese gov WILL blackmail an American and turn them to traitors IFF they have hard evidence of your being a criminal. After all, if you steal from one group, you can steal for china just as easily so that the evidence is not turned over to the American gov. Of course, then they have you for the original crime (which the American gov may/may not have cared about), along with your then turning traitor to the American ppl.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[WindBourne]

'wrong topics'???? Perhaps you mean pulling up Child pornography? OR, you are searching how to murder trump or connect with AQ? Because otherwise, the American gov does not care. In fact, unless they have a warrant, they can not do anything.
OTOH, The Chinese gov can and WILL use that evidence against you to turn you against America. For example, if they can get evidence that makes it look like you committed murder of some scientists, they might fabricate a bit more and then approach you and blackmail you with it.
And if you think that the American gov is worse, then by all means, show us the evidence of such.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[WindBourne]

NSA can and does use them but they do not want this to be useful to the Chinese as well.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[WindBourne]

Paris, like Kyoto, is a joke. Even your nation is breaking it.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[WindBourne]

LOL.
The NSA can not touch a single American. They are NOT allowed to do that. And Chinese gov. DOES grab ppl from foreign soils. So does America, but China/Russia do it far far more.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[WindBourne]

the NSA is NOT about stealing secrets/IP/etc. However, they DO listen in to various spies, business/gov heads and have caught dirty deal going down, such as when Airbus did million dollar bribes to middles eastern gov. The NSA WAS listening to those gov officials and caught them taking the bribes. Later on, IP was being sold to Russia/China by European employees when NSA was listening to the Russian/Chinese. In fact, over and over, we see that NSA catches ppl selling IP/ state secrets/etc to foreign advisaries. Show me a case where NSA listened in on European Business-> European Business or other national business and we captured IP from them? It has NEVER happened.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[WindBourne]

sure. what bids? Back up what you are saying with proof.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[Anne Thwacks]

and China is, at the end of the day, considered a competitor to the USA.

Maybe by Trump supporters. Outside of America there is no contest.

America is not even in the running. If you want Quality, you buy European or Japanese. If you want cheap, you buy Chinese. Nobody buys American.

A quick trip round my house:

European products: 50%
Chinese products: 30%
Japanese products: 10%
Unidentifiable/Korean/other: 10%

American products: 0%
Obviously, I live in Europe.

Looking in the streets outside, almost everything is European. Nothing is American. Links on my browser home screen: about 5% American, 0% Chinese - but then I can't actually read Chinese.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[mark-t]

Yes, a backdoor is in your phone. Which in itself is a risk that ought to concern you, since it could be exploited by others as well. However that wasn't exactly the point of your question.

Actually, that was *exactly* the point of my question. For the same reason that any backdoor that might be intended only for use by legitimate law enforcement would certainly be exploited by nefarious individuals as well, whether because of the almost inevitable leaks or through hacking efforts or what you, any backdoor that might exist in a Chinese phone would be exposing you to the exact same risks... plus, because you would further be basically giving the Chinese your private information gratis, you are compounding any of the vulnerabilities you otherwise have with any domestic backdoor, potentially limiting your ability to travel as well.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[fazig]

I mean, I do agree on you. At least as far as all those security concerns go. Having a backdoor of any kind in your device is dodgy at best.
But I think your reasoning appears to rely on the premise that a backdoor planted by the Chinese government is inherently less secure than a backdoor planted by authorities like the NSA. And therefore the Chinese backdoor would be more prone to exploitation, which then outweighs the dangers that may come from surveillances by a local authority. Feel free to correct and or add something here.
Maybe that is true. Maybe not. I'm not in a position to make assumption about the competence of China's cyberwarfare. I just can see why at least some people are more concerned by spying from people who can directly affect them than those that are far far away.

Re:So they won't cooperate with the NSA?

[mark-t]

I wouldn't suggest that it is any less secure, but I think it's unlikely to be more secure... and so would be vulnerable to nefarious entities exactly as any domestic backdoor would be.

Further, all other things equal, the NSA I believe is more likely to be fairer even to those it may persecute than the Chinese government would be. I realize that the Chinese government is far away and not able to significantly impact you or I right now, but I feel that when something wrong is happening, wanting to ignore it, or worse, endorse or somehow prefer it, simply because the really bad stuff isn't in one's own backyard is not really ethically justifiable, nor even an ultimately sustainable position.

I'm reminded of a well known poem, written, I think, in the 1950's:

First they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - Because I was not a socialist.

Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - Because I was not a trade unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak for me.

Of course!

[gweihir]

If people use Huawei, the NSA-Backdoors (e.g. Cisco) are not present! They cannot have that...

Re:Of course!

[Anonymous Coward]

If people use Huawei, the NSA-Backdoors (e.g. Cisco) are not present! They cannot have that...

No, if the Chinese have a backdoor into Huawei phones, you can assume that the NSA has found it and is piggybacking on it. Don't assume that just because the Chinese compromised a model, that it's not being listened to by the NSA.

Backdoor

[Anonymous Coward]

USA asks countries to only use NSA backdoored equipment.

Why?

[lennier1]

For most users the difference between American or Chinese backdoors in their hardware means jack shit!

Cool I'm safe

[grumpy-cowboy]

I'm from Canada and I use a Google Pixel phone. My privacy is protected!

Re:Cool I'm safe

[Fly Swatter]

Some forums have an actual [sarcasm] font, this is as close as we can get. I think they should be used more often, just for you.

Re:Cool I'm safe

[DontBeAMoran]

I did not miss the sarcasm, but I think this is abusing the code/monotype tag. As AC said above, I see it as "vanity plates" for comments, i.e. "look at me, I'm different!"

Re: Cool I'm safe

[sound vision]

They posted code here occasionally 10 years ago. Now, you're lucky if you can even find a real 15 year old to argue with... most trolls are just here to collect a paycheck nowadays.

I have one

[houghi]

I have a Huawei phone, so does this moean the NSA can't read my data? Bummer.

Bullshit ...

[Anonymous Coward]

US Asks Foreign Allies To Avoid Huawei

This is complete and utter bullshit, because Trump has decided America has no foreign allies.

Tell you what, we don't care what the US says any more, so stop trying to dictate to us and fuck off.

Signed, everybody-but-America-first because we don't give a fuck about what you want.

Allies my fucking ass, Trump has pretty much stated there is no such thing. And, no, we're not just going to forgive and forget this time.

The Chinese are not the good guys

[Anonymous Coward]

Even if we assume that the Chinese have a backdoor into that equipment, it's better than the NSA/GCHQ having a backdoor into it.

I really have to point this out: the Chinese government are really NOT the good guys.

Yeah, the slashdot echo chamber says over and over "NSA bad!", but, really, learn something about what the Chinese government is doing to see some serious repression.

Re:The Chinese are not the good guys

[Anonymous Coward]

Sure, but if you live in the USA, the Chinese aren't the ones who can put you in jail.

Re:The Chinese are not the good guys

[Joce640k]

Yeah, the slashdot echo chamber says over and over "NSA bad!", but, really, learn something about what the Chinese government is doing to see some serious repression.

They're not doing it to me or anybody I know. The NSA/GCHQ just might.

Re:The Chinese are not the good guys

[Opportunist]

Yes, the Chinese government is a million times worse than the US one. The story about getting an automatic ticket when crossing the road while the traffic light shows red because their CCTV with facial recognition is linked to their passport database alone is creepy to say the least.

And a swine flu pandemic in Asia certainly is more critical than a common flu over here. Yet I'd be more concerned of getting the common flu over here because I rarely travel to Asia. And I'm more concerned about an agency that at least has some chance to have an impact on my life over one that almost certainly has none.

Even aside of the whataboutism in your complaint, this is simple risk assessment. Even a risk that is mission crippling may be ignored if it cannot strike, while you have to take one that has a lower impact into account if it can.

Re:The Chinese are not the good guys

[XXongo]

G. Bush allowed (this is well documented, BTW) allowed the Chinese to assassinate a dissonant reporter on U.S. soil.

The phrase "this is well documented", posted without any documentation, can be translated as meaning "this is not documented; I heard it from some conspiracy paranoid on the internet somewhere".

China does execute more people than rest of world combined

Re:The Chinese are not the good guys

[AmiMoJo]

The Chinese government aren't good guys either, but they don't have any jurisdiction over me either.

Of course I build my own network hardware these days.

Re:The Chinese are not the good guys

[gravewax]

I don't visit china and the Chinese government have no jurisdiction or even much in the way of government cooperation. It isn't about which government is worse it is which has the power to fuck me over, the Chinese can collect all they want, they can't do shit to me, the NSA or other 5 eyes if they decide to target me I am completely at their mercy.

Re:The Chinese are not the good guys

[sit1963nz]

The USA are not the good guys either.

https://www.theguardian.com/bo...

However, the 96% of the worlds population who are NOT US citizens would like to invoke Trumpian politics and say "USA LAST" and this trade war is yours, not ours. Also No deal with the US is better than a bad deal with the US.

Re:The Chinese are not the good guys

[Anonymous Coward]

The U.S. government has directly and indirectly killed over a hundred thousand women, children, and other civilians, in the Middle East in the last 15 years. There's nothing that Chinese government has done that would put them close to being worse than the U.S. government.

Re:The Chinese are not the good guys

[Opportunist]

True, the Chinese prefer to do that to their own people.

More considerate to the world, granted, but then again, does it really matter that much where the humans are from that are being killed?

No evidence, no proof, no oversight

[Tokolosh]

If the US government has information that Huawei is nefarious, why not present the evidence? Instead, we must trust the say-so of an organization that asserts the right to snoop on it's own citizens, to drone-strike them without trial, and to prosecute non-US whistleblowers.

I realize that the Chinese are not innocent, but from the point of view of an American they are the lesser of two evils.

Re:No evidence, no proof, no oversight

[Type44Q]

I realize that the Chinese are not innocent, but from the point of view of an American they are the lesser of two evils.

Only an ignorant American. Our government may be just as stupid, corrupt and evil as China's but their respective methods of maintaining control differ enough that it's obvious which regime people usually try to escape from... and which one* they try to escape to.*

*Media grandstanding notwithstanding (say that fast)

Re: No evidence, no proof, no oversight

[ljw1004]

I think the question is different... as a private US individual just doing my own stuff unrelated to national security, I'd prefer to be spied upon by the Chinese rather than the US government, simply because they won't care about most of the things I do.

Re: No evidence, no proof, no oversight

[RuiFRibeiro]

Amen brother. Unfortunately, I often say it, and people do not understand....

Re:No evidence, no proof, no oversight

[XXongo]

Likely to protect the inside source of of the intelligence. The Chinese government isn’t exactly known for exorcising due process and the protection of human and civil rights.

Well, yes, if the Chinese figure out how the US got their information, people will die. http://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/22952/chinas-dismantling-of-cia-spy-ring-highlights-growing-dystopian-like-surveillance-state, https://www.businessinsider.com/how-china-found-cia-spies-leak-2018-8

--
(*"exercising", I think. Although "exorcising due process" is an apt bon mot)

Re: No evidence, no proof, no oversight

[brunes69]

+1000.

If I had mod points, you'd get them.

Re:No evidence, no proof, no oversight

[DNS-and-BIND]

I think you misunderstand the question. Let's say the Chinese government knows everything I do. Sort of like Google. How could they possibly use that to harm me? Where's the motivation? On the other hand the US government has made it very clear it hates my guts and would very much like to harm me. You see the difference here?

Re:No evidence, no proof, no oversight

[DNS-and-BIND]

Ok I'll bite: how would the Chinese government harm me? Let's say they have everything I do on my phone. What form would this harm take? And more importantly what would the motivation be? The US government has made it clear it hates us deplorables. They have the motivation and the means to harm us. How is China the worse choice?

Re:No evidence, no proof, no oversight

[sjames]

As an American living in the U.S. not handling classified material, Chinese spying is not much of a personal concern. If I was Chinese or living in China, it would bve much more concerning personally.

Re: No evidence, no proof, no oversight

[sound vision]

Is your job of any importance, and have you ever heard of "industrial espionage"? If not, it's time to hit up Wikipedia.

Bleeding the bank accounts or trashing the credit of random unimportant citizens would be a nice way to throw a wrench in the US economy, as well. This could be arranged so that each instance looks like "normal" fraud. (Funnily enough the US does have double the bank/CC fraud of anyone else by most measures...)

And now, the modern miracle of social media has enabled targeted misinformation campaigns. Elections are the most obvious target, but we see these tactics can also be used to get a flash mob to stone someone to death, or shoot up a pizza parlor.

Re: No evidence, no proof, no oversight

[DNS-and-BIND]

No I am an ordinary person. I have much more to fear from my own government than the distant Chinese. The intelligence community illegally spies on me - why? Why do they fear me? They're on my side - or I guess not.

Re:No evidence, no proof, no oversight

[Tom]

I realize that the Chinese are not innocent, but from the point of view of an American they are the lesser of two evils.

More importantly, from the POV of the american government, the backdoors your manufacturers added and told you about are better than the backdoors foreign manufacturers added and didn't tell you about.

Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

I understand other nations have asked the US to cooperate in other affairs, being rebuked. Now comes the US asking for cooperation, I wonder how that will go?

Pre-Existing Meddling

[Pimpy]

If these countries wanted to avoid meddling by foreign powers, they might start with throwing out the US military bases.

Huawei excellent product. USA jealous.

[keneng]

Huawei and their Kirin SOC's are awesome. I plan to buy a SBC built with SOC similar to their MATE 20 Pro for Linux when they become available.

Consumer freedoms are hampered by listening to all this USA economic intervention. The small guys lose in this scenario with less product variety. No. I won't accept this. Canada should not heed to this request.

Commercial networks ...

[PPH]

... should be considered to be compromised. No matter who's hardware they use. If your telecommunications need to be secure, you need to encrypt/decrypt it before it touches these networks. Because you never know who's hardware is connected to that network.

Re:Commercial networks ...

[PPH]

First, that's a pretty big assumption. And if true, then what good would securing the middle of the network be? (the place you'd find the Huawei equipment.)

I'm confused

[AxeTheMax]

Is this a case of the pot calling the kettle black, or is it the other way around?

Any phone is easy to monitor...

[MindPrison]

...there are PLENTY of Darkhat Youtube videos out there that will tell you in DETAIL how to do it, just with a little patience and 2 hours on your hands, you can do it to your OWN PHONE PLEASE just to get the idea of you being "protected" by a particular country out of your head, if you REALLY want to know - that is.

Anyway, I have a lot of smartphones, and I got the Huawei Pro 20 for the Camera, but what surprises me is how snappy it is in comparison to all the other phones, to me - that indicates less bloatware, and less processes bogging down the phone. I can have mine on 3 months in a row without the need to restart it, and it's still insanely snappy and smooth, can't say that for any other phone I've used, it even reports if there's a process somewhere that is drawing too much power during the time the particular process isn't being used for something I use, very nifty feature.

So this is just Government FUD. I love Murican's with all of my heart, they're an open minded people, who gladly gives more than they can afford (I've been there so many times), but their government - oh boy... something needs to happen there, fast.

NSA installing spyware on Cisco routers

[SonarNerd]

Everyone still remembers the information about NSA installing spyware on Cisco routers, right? Maybe sales and thus information from such have strangely decreased? So let's call an ad-campaign!

How not to get spied on

[AHuxley]

Know who is looking and why.
Got skilled scientists and lots of new patents? Winning international contracts with real innovation and actual skill? Can your company win a bid on price and quality?
Got smart staff who can out think the global competition as they got promoted on merit?
Selling dual use https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... products globally?

Understand what the NSA, GCHQ, Chain, EU wants from deep in your electronic networks.

Have nothing of future interest on your internet facing networks other than existing business products and services, support.
Have your vital meetings away from all consumer electronic devices with secret long term meeting records kept on paper.
When its on a network it can't just be copied out.
When different nations security services can not get your company plans electronically they will try in person.
Place a camera near some secure paper "files" and see who shows an interest on getting access at different times.
Secure your offices from walk in spying attempts like in person penetration testing.
Look into the political backgrounds of all staff to see who would talk to another nations spy agencies due to faith, cult, citizenship, friendship, politics, debt, lifestyle.

Don't buy products/services and from brands known to have backdoors. If one nations security services have the network keys so do other nations and business competitors.
Dont let strange NGO workers, charity workers, new best friends wonder around your secure buildings.

So *now* we are "Foreign Allies...

[DeanElhard]

... as opposed to the last year or so when it's been "Threats to National Security" for daring to make cars, steel, and aluminum... This feels like the guy who just spent the last 2 hours drunkenly and loudly cursing out his girlfriend at the bar and falsely claiming she cheated on him storming off and getting pulled over by the cops for DUI and then calling the same girlfriend to come bail him out...

depends on what you are up to

[WindBourne]

If you are a spy or are committing crimes in a domestic nation and you do not mind the idea of being blown by a nuke, then go with the Chinese stuff.
OTOH, if that does not apply to you, you can get networking gear from America, Canada, Spain, Germany, France, Australia, Japan, S. Korea, etc.

manufactured in China

[Khashishi]

What is the difference between a Chinese company and an American company that manufactures in China? It seems like either can have a Chinese backdoor. But I suppose it's easier for the NSA to put a backdoor into an American company's product.