Microsoft Releases Windows 10 Build 18290 With Start Menu Improvements (betanews.com)

DarkRookie2 shares a report a report about Windows 10 Build 18290 for Insiders, which comes with a number of improvements and additions. BetaNews reports: The most noticeable change is to the Start menu which gets a touch of Fluent design, making it look more attractive. Icons have also been added to the power and user menus. The Search and Cortana areas have been given a bit of a cleanup as well. Also new in this build is an option in the Date & Time Settings that will let you manually synchronize your clock with the time server. If you suspect your PC clock might be showing the wrong time, this will let you check and correct the problem if you're right. You can now also check to see which app is using your microphone (just hover over the microphone icon to see), and when your PC has an update that requires a reboot, you'll now be informed via an orange Windows Update indicator in the system tray.

Comments

Call me when they roll it back

[Shaitan]

The start menu has gotten worse and worse with each release and peaked somewhere around XP pro. 7 was the last functional one.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly. Worst thing ever for productivity is having the UI change on someone else's terms. Bet they make it even harder to remove shitware like the XBOX app and Tripadvisor from the start menu, because those are necessary apps for a work computer.

Don't even get me started on those annoying as hell tiles that dont belong anywhere on a PC.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[reboot246]

Yes, "improving" the Start menu on Windows 10 really is putting lipstick on a pig.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[fluffernutter]

Not really sure what the problem with it is. It does the same thing as the win 7 start menu but with a search field you can type into instantly.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[grimthaw]

Besides having a weird time delay (experienced on many systems) where the OS doesn't pick up the first couple of letters in the password field, start menu, etc. So you have to 'wait' for it to catch up after pressing alt-ctrl-del when logging in, pressing start to search, and all number of actions that should be quick and thoughtless...

It also has a search that doesn't work as good as windows 7s. Someone it has gone backwards. Want to quickly get Notepad++?

Press start button (on keyboard) and type note... wait it didnt pick up the n, so its got 'ote'.. it worked out you wanted "Notepad" and every file indexed on the system with 'ote' in it, but no other application on the system with the string 'ote'. NotePad++ is picked up with 'ote', and Windows 7 doesnt have a stupid delay after pressing hotkeys.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[Anonymous Coward]

i can't even believe this is what windows has become

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[PsychoSlashDot]

7 was the last functional one.

So you never learned how to use the Start menu in Win8/Win10. Got it. Works just fine for me, but I learned how to use it to the fullest.

Bullshit. Press the Windows button, then type "cmd". Don't be slow about it. Type it like you know what you're doing. Doesn't always find it. Try the same search for "Windows Update". Doesn't always find it. Repeat with pretty much anything that's installed on your computer. Doesn't always find it.

Sure, it'll search the web to make suggestions, but actual programs that are local, on the actual "Start Menu"... not consistently.

Again, sure, if you. Type. It. Slow. Ly. Be. Cause. You. Do. N't. Know. Wha. T. You. 're. Do. Ing. It. Works.

Screw off, system-wide search. Screw off, Cortana. I'll just keep a command prompt open at all times and memorize all the MMCs, CPLs. Hell, with tab-completion I can get into c:\progra~1\micros~1\office ##\winword.exe faster than it can be searched on the Start Menu.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[sexconker]

90% of the time it can't do a simple search.

For example, I'm remotely connected to a box that brings up only web searches and unrelated store apps for:

D
De
Dev
Devi
Devic
Device
Devices
Devices
Devices a
Devices an
Devices and
Devices and
Devices and P
Devices and Pr
Devices and Pri
Devices and Prin
Devices and Print
Devices and Printe
Devices and Printer

But returns the expected result for:
Devices and Printers

This same box will list Adobe Acrobat DC as a tile when I open the start menu, if I'm lucky fo rit to be chosen. But if I open it and it's not chosen, or if I open it and start typing Adobe Acrobat DC, it will not be shown.

And I've encountered the "Start menu won't open; programs won't run; reinstall, bitch." bug on fresh, clean installs plenty of fucking times.

Windows 10 is shit.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[sexconker]

Besides having a weird time delay (experienced on many systems) where the OS doesn't pick up the first couple of letters in the password field, start menu, etc. So you have to 'wait' for it to catch up after pressing alt-ctrl-del when logging in, pressing start to search, and all number of actions that should be quick and thoughtless...

You have to wait for the "telemetry" service to wake up sometimes.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[Xenx]

While I'm not going to rule out your experiences, it couldn't be further from true from my experiences and those of everyone I know. I've used Windows 10 across quite a variety of systems. From cheap atom based tablets on up. This includes: AMD CPUs, AMD GPU, Intel CPUs, Intel integrated GPU, Nvidia GPU. I've done inline upgrades from 7 to 10 as well as fresh installs on a number of them. I even use a PCoIP zero client to a Win 10 VM at work.

And for the record, Windows 7 has no idea what I want when I type "ote". It found no search results. So, if yours specifically is doing it.. good on you.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[Anonymous Coward]

The start menu has gotten worse and worse with each release and peaked somewhere around XP pro. 7 was the last functional one.

IMNSHO, the Start menu peaked at Windows 2000. It was basic, utilitarian, and functional. RIP WIN2K.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[rtb61]

All they have to do is build http://classicshell.net/ into windows and stop being dicks and trying to force some phone gui in a desktop. Then again from my perspective who gives a rats what M$ does, until they do windows with full privacy, zero monitoring of anything, stop trying to force their applications and end the forced installation of software and of all fucking things advertising, well, basically they can go fuck themselves.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[hudsucker]

For one thing, the Windows 10 Start Menu doesn't allow for program subfolders.

For example, if you had something like a "Microsoft Office" group, containing the key applications at the top level, but the lesser used utilities in a subfolder "Microsoft Office Tools", all of that nice structure is gone. It just throws all of the program icons into the single folder allowed per application.

Microsoft's answer is, apparently, to redesign the application so it doesn't use the Start Menu for program links. But what happens when you have an application that was designed for Windows 7, which has a perfectly functional Start menu, that supports subfolders? It is just a horrid mess.

And what possible reason is there for this limitation? Oh yeah: it is because Windows 8 was designed for tablets, not computers, hence the whole "metro" interface. For some reason Microsoft didn't bother to fix the Metro-emphasis in Windows 10, so we're stuck with limitations that make no sense.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[Iwastheone]

Classic Shell still working for me, Win10. Developer may not be able to keep up with MS constantly trying to defeat it. If not, now may be the time to give up on Windows completely and learn how to Linux. Damn. Damn it all to hell! I miss the old days of computing of freeware...

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[WhoBeDaPlaya]

As someone who actually organizes and extensively uses keyboard shortcuts with the Start Menu, this writeup hits home : http://www.classicshell.net/wh...

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[antdude]

Use a third party instead?

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[Xenx]

While I too prefer Classic/Open Shell on my systems, I'm stuck using default at work. It's definitely not bad. My preferences are based on 20+ years of use and not on the actually capabilities of the new menu.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[Tyger-ZA]

Classic Shell still working for me, Win10. Developer may not be able to keep up with MS constantly trying to defeat it. If not, now may be the time to give up on Windows completely and learn how to Linux. Damn. Damn it all to hell! I miss the old days of computing of freeware...

There's been enough shit going on with operating systems that I'm now thinking about signing up on Patreon for the first time to support Linux Mint. The only OS that still works the way I like.

I guess Microsoft's plan for an OS subscription is actually happening for me, the only difference being that their efforts are making me want to ensure that a viable alternative remains alive and well

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[AbRASiON]

Yes it's quite broken.

I love how I install a new App, let's call it Chromulus I dunno
I click start, type Chro - up comes Chrome browser and then Chromulus is underneath, I open it.
5 minutes later, I hit start, type "Chro" only Chrome comes up, wtf?

A day later, I try again, it's there.
A day later, it isn't

This is literally an installed Application in the start menu with a traditional .LNK file which should be indexed and god damn prioritised first in search results.

NO, I do NOT want to search the web for Chro.

This has occurred enough time over enough apps on enough installs of Windows 10, that I'm with you 10,000% - that search menu is terrible and worse of all, is sloppy inconsistent code
Broken is ok - I'm ok with broken. Inconsistent is the true sign of poor work to me.

That start menu is truly a mess.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[goose-incarnated]

Not really sure what the problem with it is. It does the same thing as the win 7 start menu but with a search field you can type into instantly.

So? The Windows 7 I had on my computer had a start menu with a search field.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[Anonymous Coward]

You can still get that back with Classic Shell. Don't forget to disable the Windows Update service and use ShutUp10 to disable all of the spyware and annoyances. I'm not sure if anyone has found a way to remove all of the bloatware garbage like Cortona and Xbox yet.

It's ridiculous how many hoops Windows 10 makes users have to jump through.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[Waccoon]

In general, search on Windows has been broken since the search 4.0 update was released for XP. Windows can't find anything that isn't in the index, nothing goes in the index unless it's a registered filetype, and partial word matches have been totally broken since forever. In a lot of cases on my Windows7 box, if I use the Explorer search bar to look for a file that's right in front of my face, Windows can't find it. All this worked just fine before the 4.0 update. On top of all this, despite full system-wide indexing, search is abysmally slow.

For launching files, I just use QuickLaunch which still works fine under Win7. For any other searches I use FileLocater Lite, which is actually way faster than the native Windows search engine, and it's... not broken.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[thegarbz]

Out of the box yes, fortunately it's not difficult to just disable those shitty tile things and make the start menu functionally no different than the one from Windows 7. I've defended Microsoft here a few times, but really the only thing defensible on this start menu is the ability to turn the useless shit off.

Re: Call me when they roll it back

[Anonymous Coward]

haters

Sorry, but the use of the term "hater" just indicates you have no valid argument. The rest of your comment is null and void.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[thegarbz]

"Limitations" ... I'd be with you if those "lesser used utilities" didn't amount to superfluous garbage, links to websites or text files, the help file, etc. I can't say I'm upset about the loss of this. These really ARE things that should exist from within the application itself.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[thegarbz]

Doesn't always find it.

Not OP but .... Errr. Yeah always finds it. 100% of the time.

Try the same search for "Windows Update".

Again, finds it 100% of the time I've done it even though the windows you're trying to get to is called "Check for Updates" though the windows link to "Windows Update Settings" brings you to the same window curiously enough, but that's not a start menu issue.

... not consistently.

It's strange you have a consistency problem. I agree sometimes it doesn't find programs, but it will consistently not find those programs.

Hell, with tab-completion I can get into c:\progra~1\micros~1\office ##\winword.exe faster than it can be searched on the Start Menu.

There is something very wrong with your computer.

There's a lot to hate about the Windows 10 start menu, but the actual search component has remained largely unchanged and quite useful since a few service packs into Vista. Instead, complain about the tiles. That complaint I can get behind.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[Anonymous Coward]

Uh, no. The only thing wrong with Windows 8.x was the start screen, which is easily fixed by about a million start menu replacements. With a start menu replacement, Windows 8.x is probably the best version of Windows ever made.

In contrast, Windows 10 has built-in spyware, advertising, non-removable bloatware and is crippled to the point that the user/administrator/owner can't control what Microsoft is allowed to access or tinker with on their computers.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[AmiMoJo]

My experience of Windows 10 has mostly been blighted my the forced restarts, until I found out how to turn them off.

For reference go to %windir%\System32\Tasks\Microsoft\Windows\UpdateOrchestrator, rename the "Restart" file and create a folder called "Restart" so that Windows can't re-create it.

Other than that it's okay. Multiple desktops are nice, although it resets the order of items on the task bar whenever you switch. It's janky crap like that which never gets fixed that erodes what little faith I had in Microsoft after Windows 7 was actually kinda good.

The start menu is still a crap way to organize apps.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[AmiMoJo]

The basic concept of the start menu being a folder tree is flawed. Every app does its own thing so there is no top level organization, it's just a mixture of company names you quickly forget and app names you quickly forget. If you try to organize them they fight you and every update puts them back to the default location.

Microsoft needs to start over with it. It's not easy when there is incentive for developers to spam the menu and desktop and task bar and everywhere else with their crap, but what it really wants is one icon per app and some simple metadata. Phones aren't actually a terrible example, although it would be nice if you could create a "games" folder and when you install new games the icon goes in there by default.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[AmiMoJo]

It seems like there is a bug that breaks the search function. On every Windows 10 machine I've used typing "cmd" brings up the command prompt as the first item instantly. But you are not the only one complaining about it, so there must be something that triggers this problem.

I've been using search since Windows 7 and find it's the fastest way to launch apps now. The main problem I have is remembering the name of apps I rarely use.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[Xenx]

The start menu is still a crap way to organize apps.

They tried to get rid of it, but that went over so well with the users.

Functionally the current start menu isn't really better or worse than in the past, only different. But, that's only based on how I use it. I'm sure there are better interaction options, but a lot of people spent a lot of time barely learning to function with the way it was. Change it too much and they'll just not try to cope. Personally, 99% of the time I use the start menu it's to do one of a couple entirely simple things that I could do another way just as easily.

I'd say it's as much a mental crutch as anything else. My brain will sometimes just decide I don't know what I'm doing any more. I just need to look at it again to try to get myself back in line. I have the same problem with typing sometimes. I have ham hands and if I get careless I'll just lose all ability to type. I have to stop and just look at the keyboard and center myself physically and mentally to be able to start typing again.

Re: Call me when they roll it back

[Duhavid]

"You can easy remove apps using powershell and its easy to set it up for friends to use. I dont have mail, edge and other crap apps installed. You can easy disable Cortana and most of the telemetry."

    A, you have to use powershell to remove apps? What the heck? MS has a system for removing apps, that *should* work just fine
            they are using your machine to monetize you. And you want to defend that?

    B, the telemetry *should not be in there*. It is slowing things down and invading my privacy. It should not be in need of disabling.
            If they really wanted it for debugging and problem solving, they would write trace data to my disk, and require my active permission before disclosing it.

"I get the feel that people who complain about win10 either don't know what they are doing. Don't know how to problem solve or are just jumping on the anti Microsoft bandwagon to be internet popular. I'm 50 years old, have over 30 years in IT and running Win10 isnt that hard. Oh, I'm sure I'll get modded down cause truth hurts."

    It is possible to dislike some subset of Microsoft's decisions without being "anti Microsoft", and it is possible, as in my case, to have started out liking Microsoft very much, and grown to dislike some of their actions and decisions ( I believe ) on the (de)merits of those actions and decisions. I'm 54 and have been involved with computers for over 40 years, including a long stint in IT both operationally and as a programmer. I understand there are those who hate Microsoft without reason. There are also those who love Microsoft without reason.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[AmiMoJo]

That could be because Devices and Printers doesn't exist on Windows 10 any more...

It's still broken though. The new equivalent is "Devices" in the Settings window. But searching for "devices" won't find it. It only finds sub-items like "Bluetooth and other devices".

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[AC-x]

Bullshit. Press the Windows button, then type "cmd". Don't be slow about it. Type it like you know what you're doing. Doesn't always find it. Try the same search for "Windows Update". Doesn't always find it. Repeat with pretty much anything that's installed on your computer. Doesn't always find it.

Unable to replicate issue, works perfectly every time.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[AC-x]

I disagree - Windows 10 start menu is by far my favorite implementation because it lets me arrange all the programs and utilities I use regularly in nice high-density icon grids so I can just launch the one I want straight away without having to scroll or open folder trees. Instant search always works for my apps too, but some people seem to have trouble with it not working..?

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[chrish]

I've been using Classic Shell http://classicshell.net/ since Windows 8. I'll keep using it until MS makes it incompatible somehow, unless MS manages to actually design their Start menu in a decent way.

Pity Classic Shell's been abandoned since 2017 but if there's one thing Windows is good for, it's running legacy software...

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[UnknowingFool]

I think many people would like MS to just release patches for stuff they broke in the last patch first before launching new features no one asked them to make.

Re: Call me when they roll it back

[Duhavid]

I'd prefer that.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[drinkypoo]

The start menu has gotten worse and worse with each release and peaked somewhere around XP pro.

I'd actually say it peaked with 7/Vista because of the search box. Every UI change Microsoft has made has been downhill since Win7.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[drinkypoo]

The basic concept of the start menu being a folder tree is flawed. [...] Microsoft needs to start over with it.

That is slightly annoying, but frankly irrelevant since Vista which solved the two big UI failures of Windows XP: Quick launch and a clogged start menu. Quick launch and half of the start menu fix is the taskbar with pinning, and the other half of the start menu fix was making the useful items float to the top and adding the search box. I almost never actually have to scroll the start menu; I either click the thing I want from the taskbar where it is pinned, click the thing I want from the top of the start menu, or type a few characters and click it from the list of selections. All of these are faster than navigating some complex and probably unsatisfactory mandatory hierarchy of start menu folders anyway.

Re: Call me when they roll it back

[drinkypoo]

The alternative to telemetry is Microsoft ceasing to maintain features on which you rely and subsequently removing them

The alternative to forcing telemetry on users is to not force telemetry on users. Period, end of sentence.

Also, when's the last time Microsoft removed something from Windows, without a more-featured replacement?

because Microsoft can't tell that you or anyone else relies on them.

Horseshit. There's lots of other ways to find that stuff out besides mandatory spyware.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[AmiMoJo]

I wish you could just search for the name of the app or a simple tag like "graphics" to show all graphics related apps.

It would also really help if organizing he start menu was easier. Make it easy to group apps into categories and make sure that when they update they don't default back to the root level like they do now.

Re: Call me when they roll it back

[Voyager529]

the telemetry *should not be in there*. It is slowing things down and invading my privacy.

The alternative to telemetry is Microsoft ceasing to maintain features on which you rely and subsequently removing them because Microsoft can't tell that you or anyone else relies on them.

So, you're arguing that Microsoft would have kept Windows Media Center for all the people like me using it as a DVR if only telemetry was enabled?
You're arguing that Microsoft would have kept the Windows Photo Viewer instead of forcing the appy-app version if only telemetry was enabled?
You're arguing that Microsoft would have kept Paint and Solitaire instead of forcing the appy-app version if only telemetry was enabled?
You're arguing that Microsoft would have let me keep my Synaptics control panel applet rather than forcing the generic 'Settings' touchpad config area that is missing half the functions I need if only telemetry was enabled?
You're arguing that Microsoft would have kept Aero themes if only telemetry was enabled?

You're arguing that Microsoft is going to stop auto-downloading appy-apps because they can see I uninstall as many as I can if telemetry is enabled?
You're arguing that Microsoft is going to make all the OOBE options opt-in if enough people disable them all anyway if telemetry is enabled?
You're arguing that Microsoft is going to leave Acrobat Pro as the default PDF reader if enough people undo its switching back to Edge if telemetry is enabled?
You're arguing that Microsoft is going to stop nagging Chrome users to use Edge instead if telemetry is enabled?
You're arguing that Microsoft is going to stop advertising OneDrive in File Explorer by default if telemetry is enabled?

Forgive my skepticism.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[Shaitan]

7 already had a search field, not that you need one with a decently organized start menu. The first thing they did wrong was make the start menu dynamic. A consistent start menu is more functional than one which mostly contains random entries. They systematically removed useful items like rapid access to the control panel and "my computer" or "this pc", which in turn was your rapid access to system properties. Oh and how about "Run."

Yes there are ways around it. If you know the shortcut to open run it isn't a big deal, if you've memorized the commands to type in order to open the various control panels, etc. But a user didn't used to NEED to learn these things. You could get to everything you needed to figure out and understand the machine right from the start menu... especially useful if you are an advanced cross platform user who looks to be able to use that knowledge and a bit of probing to find their way around a platform and not memorized shortcuts and sequences because there is no way you'd memorize them on every platform.

Aside from that, it is just poor UI design practice. They aren't adding function, they are redesigning the UI just for the sake of doing it.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[ilsaloving]

I can understand why they added that limitation. Everyone and their goldfish was using subfolders and polluting them with every damn useless thing imaginable. Links to uninstallers (Because the control panel wasn't good enough?) . Readme files. All sorts of nonsense, and just made everything convoluted and that much more difficult to find the thing you actually needed.

OSX for example, allows for folders but generally discourages them unless there's a specific need for it. I find it jarring and irritating when I install an app and suddenly there's new folder I have to dig through. At this point I now equate program sub-folders with developers who don't really know how (or care to) to package their products cleanly. Cisco is the first example the pops into my head.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[Voyager529]

The start menu is still a crap way to organize apps.

They tried to get rid of it, but that went over so well with the users.

Functionally the current start menu isn't really better or worse than in the past, only different...

Amongst the things that the Win7 start menu did well was to give a number of options. Preferred applications can be pinned, the entries can be searched, and the complete index can be browsed if needed.

The single biggest issue with the newer iterations of the start menu is the lack of information density. 48 entries per column, and six columns, fit on a 1920x1080 screen. That's nearly 300 entries before a scroll mechanism would be required. The Win8 start menu could fit 48 entries on the same screen size...but for what? I'm not touching my screen, and I'm not sitting ten feet away that I need the large type, and there's no way to increase that density. There is zero improvement to be had from the tile paradigm. Even live tiles with their whole "at a glance" defense means that tiles don't look the same when you're looking at them. If a dashboard was something worth pursuing, then developing widgets and the sidebar was really what MS needed to do.

Moving on from sheer information density, admittedly not the most intuitive means of doing so, but a whole lot of the common control panel applets are two clicks away. Network connections, system information, drive mapping, and printer adding were all very simple to access. Perhaps there's a case to be made for right clicking the start menu to get to several of them, but the appy-app Settings options are still not at 100% feature parity from the Control Panel, even ignoring third party entries like nVidia or M-Audio or Rane.

Finally, let's talk about search. There's no cue to enter text; I cannot count how many times I've been on a support call when I've been like "just type...I know it doesn't look like you can, but trust me, you can...just type...I promise it will work...JUST. TYPE." The search bar in the taskbar is dumb because it takes up space for running program entries. But anyway, the biggest issue is that searching for applications means the machine also searches the file system for things, and Bing for internet searches. Sorry, zero defense on that one, either. Bing searches on the start menu? That make application searches take longer?

There is not a single change to the Win10 start menu that is an objective improvement over Classic Shell. Not once has anyone been able to say "this function is better". If you like it, and I mean this 100% sincerely, I am happy for you. I simply haven't been able to share in your affinity for the changes.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[Killall -9 Bash]

Suck every cock in the universe, you micro-penised, H1-B visa having, shitlord Microsoft employee. Removing adware shouldn't be part of installing windows.

Re: Call me when they roll it back

[Killall -9 Bash]

No, you'll get modded down because you're missing the point, on purpose I suspect. Not everyone has 30 years of IT experience, and not everyone has hours to spend to make their windows 10 usable (i gave up after 2).

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[Killall -9 Bash]

No. This has been a problem for over a decade. I can't tell you how many times someone brought a computer into the PC repair shop i used to work at complaining that there was a typing delay... which I fixed by uninstalling windows search or google desktop..... Then they built the predictive typing / search shitware into browsers. then into the OS. It's already built into your TV, waiting for the day people starting using them as internet browsers. Next will be your AR glasses. Then your brainchip.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[orient]

Classic Shell lists "Devices and Printers" when I reach "de".

Re: Call me when they roll it back

[Shaitan]

"Everytime an OS comes out, the haters start claiming crap and usually it's either BS or self inflicted. And if (big IF) it has happened to you then try updating your drivers. I have more than 10 machines running win10 plus one running insider. No ads ever. The main issue I've run into a couple drivers causing issues and that's the Manufacturer's fault, not Microsoft's. I also had to modify the bios on my acer e 15 to turn AMD-V on, again not Microsoft's fault. You can easy remove apps using powershell and its easy to set it up for friends to use. I dont have mail, edge and other crap apps installed. You can easy disable Cortana and most of the telemetry."

First of all not being able to disable telemetry entirely means you all your windows 10 systems are broken but telemetry shouldn't exist in the first place. For the rest, you do realize we aren't a bunch of old men who can't figure it out or luddites. You aren't a luddite just because you oppose some "new" technology, you SHOULD oppose "new technology" that doesn't bring benefits and change for its own sake.

Your argument basically boils down to "I managed to make the systems all function as designed." While I do realize Microsoft has historically set the bar so low that the system actually functioning is impressive for them, it isn't impressive in general. We are complaining about the design itself, the fact the horrible design functions as designed isn't the point, it is a terrible design to interact with. An XP pro or even win 7 UI combined with the same actual functional improvements under the hood would have been a dramatically superior design for the desktop and there is absolutely no reason that couldn't have been done.

How is upping the indexing to include file contents and redesigning the key start point of interaction around it a sensible approach on a system where you've implemented a performance killing indexing function that every informed user disables as part of tuning a system? A sensible approach is to figure out the things a power user turns off and disable them out of the box in the next release even if you leave the option for those few users who actually want it.

There is nothing about the design changes in windows 8 and 10 that indicates they are for the benefit of users rather than for the benefit of Microsoft. There isn't even some kind of reasonable blend of the two concerns, it is purely an effort of Microsoft wanting access to the data of millions of users and trying different approaches until it finds something that sticks.

Yes, you can download a third party app and restore the start menu to something functional and disable most of telemetry and most of these annoying "improvements" and then firewall off the rest. Not "if you want to", this isn't some preference, it is people who are ignorant and people who are not. Why the hell is this crap there in the first place? Nothing Microsoft has done to the start menu has been an improvement (other than a slick theme) in 10 years I doubt it is happening now.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[Killall -9 Bash]

No, it does exist. The entirety of the win7 control panel, and all of its items exist in windows 10. They hide it as hard as they fucking can, because they want you to use "settings"..... which half of the time doesn't have the functionality you need, so you have to go to the legacy control panel anyway. "Settings" is such a flaming piece of unfinished garbage that they have to hide the control panel.

Re: Call me when they roll it back

[Shaitan]

Riiiiigggghhhtttt.... first of all, even if that were true, the information would be drowned in the mass of uninformed and uneducated actions of most users who have no idea what they are doing. That is a rapid race to the bottom. If those users were magically gifted with understanding they would use different features and use the system in different ways, the ideal should be to strip out the uninformed usage and bring the system closer and closer to a power user configuration out of the box. Then the system is configured as a power user would configure it out of the box and the more powerful tools become the things all users learn in the first place.

Lets be honest, windows has gotten so bloated and terrible that even Microsoft avoids using it where they can. Instead of fixing it they just figure they'll monetize the suckers as much as they can as long as they can with the assumption that everything is just going to be a dumb browser host at some point. Then we'll all basically be terminal users using mainframes... err cloud services and have come full circle but with much more bloated and inefficient protocols.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[kenai_alpenglow]

Seems like UI is driven more by "artists" then by functionality. Another enterprise level package did a major update. The UI is all fancied up and "purty", but the amount of info I can see is now drastically limited. I don't need pretty that gets in the way of doing my job. So I use the old interface and will do so until it's taken away.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[sexconker]

That could be because Devices and Printers doesn't exist on Windows 10 any more...

Wrong, as usual.

Go ahead and repeat the exact thing I showed.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[Megol]

So now pointing out that one _can_ remove that irritating crap is equal to promiscuously doing sexual favors? How about keeping your sexual fantasies in your diary?

Re: Call me when they roll it back

[doesnothingwell]

I can remember computers before Microsoft, they added the arrogance to OS design. Windows 10 keeps telling me to invent disk space on a tablet that lacks it, and high speed internet when I am at home and don't have it. EVERY DAY! twice a day, with a unblockable popup window! WTF. Yes, I killed a few processes taking that shit out. They can all die in a fire,of cancer,eating shit, listening to marketing calls,sucking cock,anally raped,listening to muzak,waiting on hold,for your protection,locked in a room of lawyers,working in HR, and it wouldn't be enough. When I get linux efi working on this turd tablet, windows 10 is gone.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[GonzoPhysicist]

They systematically removed useful items like rapid access to the control panel and "my computer" or "this pc", which in turn was your rapid access to system properties. Oh and how about "Run."

Have you tried right clicking on the start menu? It gives quick access to those things. It's one change I can get behind.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[AmiMoJo]

I did.

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[Iwastheone]

VERY interesting, thanks for this/ :)

Re:Call me when they roll it back

[ConceptJunkie]

Nothing Microsoft has ever done is a good way to organize apps. KDE 3.5 had the best way to organize computer applications, and I had independently come up with a similar system for organizing my apps around the days of NT 4 or Windows 2000.

The Start Menu is one of the worst anti-features ever written.

windows 7 had a start menu

[Anonymous Coward]

it was great. it was predictable, reliable, and just fucking worked. vista had one too. it was like that as well, and so was xp's. me and 98 and 95 and 2000 and nt all had them. and they all. were wonderful.

8 did not have one. 10 **DOES NOT** have one

10's "start menu" is the "start screen" from windows 8 shrunk down somewhat. tiles on one side and the 'app list' (from the downarrow on 8's start screen) on the other.

classicshell, now known as, open shell is a god damn start menu. 10's is not. it's an abomination, as is the 'metro' or whatever the fuck they call it today 'settings' vs the former 'control panel'. it's all fucking bullshit.

shitty ui changes. shitty updates. shitty user tracking. shitty ads. shitty forced installs. shitty nudges to 'the cloud'. shitty privacy policy and update policies. shitty everything. welcome to your new pc experience.

+_+_+_+_+_+_

windows 7 users have just over one year to decide what the fuck they're gonna do. suffer needlessly forevermore or switch. ubuntu downloads are >> thataway >> https://www.ubuntu.com/

Re:windows 7 had a start menu

[northerner]

I wish Microsoft had supported and accommodated Classic Shell rather than break it with every new Windows 10 release.

So, let me get this straight...

[IWantMoreSpamPlease]

The latest patch fucks up your data, messes with dark theme, wipes out god only knows what else....and their solution is to make some icons shiny?

Do I have that right?

Re:So, let me get this straight...

[Anonymous Coward]

Not only that, Edge currently breaks the network filesystem, system wide. Windows really has dropped below the usability threshold. Upload a file from a network drive to a website from Edge, and Edge locks that folder view across the entire system until all Edge instances exit. Windows explorer will show files that are not there anymore, update the files on the network share from another machine on the network and the Win10/Edge machine can only see the files that were when it uploaded a file. That's shamefully broken. After this, I can trust nothing Win10 does.

Just today I reinstalled a laptop for a client that had their user profile data and files wiped because windows and hp silently dropped support for the HP Validity fingerprint scanner. If a user is using the fingerprint scanner for login and you remove the driver their profile gets wiped, login user files, the works. So windows update in the October update ever so helpfully decided to silently remove the driver. Poof! Your login and files are gone! Isn't that so much better now? Microsoft: "I'm helping!".

Re:So, let me get this straight...

[ArhcAngel]

Did you check here

Re:So, let me get this straight...

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you blaming that for your poor choices? 10.04 is almost 10 years old

so the BRAND NEW PRINTER might have better luck with something less ancient, no? Try the 14/16/18 LTS (in reverse order)

HTH

Re:So, let me get this straight...

[Anonymous Coward]

Errr, no. It says right in the summary that this patch makes the Start menu look more attractive. That is a fact.

Re:So, let me get this straight...

[Bite The Pillow]

No. The patch that lets you copy a registry path, a basic setting in Windows, which is a system upgrade, fails to install on my pc.

If you get it to the point of fucking up your data, you are further along than am I.

Re:So, let me get this straight...

[thegarbz]

No you have this completely wrong. Their solution is to fix the problems in the patch (data deletion is fixed, iCloud issue fixed, Intel driver fixed, F5 VPN and Trend Micro issues are ongoing) while a different team is working on "improvements" for the next version.

If MS stopped all development to fix bugs we'd still be using Windows 95.

Re:So, let me get this straight...

[coofercat]

Yes, although now, they've done the digital equivalent of a supermarket re-arranging all the shelves. It's all still in there, but you can't find any of it.

Re:So, let me get this straight...

[ASCIIxTended]

The latest patch fucks up your data, messes with dark theme, wipes out god only knows what else....and their solution is to make some icons shiny?

Do I have that right?

When did Apple engineers start working for Microsoft?

Focus Groups - real ones

[Anonymous Coward]

Focus groups opinions should be listened to. MS are still not listening to the we want to go back crowd.

Lets us admit Win10 was going to be an IPhone killer, where Redmond dreamed Windows10 would quickly grab 50% plus of Apples captive market. Well, that did not happen, and an insecure crappy Android that now has a shelf life of less than 3 years - ate their breakfast.Clearly failed - bigtime.

Part 2 was that the user to loose control. Telemetary, 100's of things doing things behind your back. Ram in Bing too. And soften mugs up for the 'Cloud'. And they think this will work. It will, up to the point of a FaceBook moment. Even AWS has trouble holding things in.

I say to MS, keep waving the stick. Big coprorates are with Amazon already,and .gov sidelined you in big gov( AWS now).Influence waned, because you did not listen. Oh, and AWS is promising to be more stable. I see that trickle turning into a tide.

If AWS is a threat, Windows 11 will have to be released - with rollback that conforms to focus groups. Relief will buy you five years more.

 

Re:Focus Groups - real ones

[Anonymous Coward]

It's Part 2 that leaves a very bitter taste in my mouth. I would rant about how great Windows 10 is all day long if they would make the installation more modulare so you could have zero telemetry.

They can't do that. They would have to rehire a few of those QA engineers and testers. They love making the customer into their beta testers. They need telemetry to facilitate that.

One client I support wants the full on Windows 10 out-of-the-box disaster experience for his users migrating from Windows 7. He wants it to be as shitty as possible to encourage the powers-that-be to be more amenable to Apple and Linux alternatives. No Classic shell. No shut up 10. No deferring updates. No disabling piggy useless services. etc.

I gotta admire his style.

Re:Focus Groups - real ones

[Anonymous Coward]

This is exactly what we've done at our place. The users *HATE* the Windows 10 GUI and we've finally managed to get a decent amount of them to start using Linux desktops. We're currently migrating some huge old mainframe systems over to Linux (Microfocus COBOL) and the desktop is becoming more irrelevant. As long as the users can run the terminal emulator that connects to the remediated "legacy" systems they're able to work. All the serious back end work is done on VMs running (mainly) on AWS so us techies are quite happy using Putty/Winscp/ssh etc. to connect. After that it's just shell access so who cares which desktop O/S launches stuff ?

Most of the average users are quite happy with Libre Office on Linux so the only blockers left are Exchange and the hard core power Excel/Word users (an admittedly large group). But the hatred for the Windows 10 "experience" is real and getting worse by the day.

Even better our security people have banned classic shell which helps ramp up the hatred immensely :)

Hopefully MS keep fucking up, keep forcing ads/telemetry/Edge/Cortana/foced upgrades and all the other bullshit they're currently pushing and we can eventually get everyone onto Linux/Apple desktops (the users who have them love their Macbooks)

Windows 10 will be the end of Microsoft. The bully is no longer listening at all and even the most cowed users are starting to say "enough is enough".

Re:Hell's teeth

[Luckyo]

It's easier to do than try to address more serious problems.

Also it doesn't impact MS' bottom line.

Instantly

[ArchieBunker]

Yeah right "instantly". Half the time you type the next letter of the word you're looking for and the results disappear. Then when you finish typing the word then you see what you're looking for. Windows file searches are the slowest fucking thing in the world. There is a program simply called "everything" that searches all your drives in real time.

Did they go back to the useful start menu?

[HannethCom]

Nope, still the useless crap that no one wants to use. I think the only reason for the new menu was to make people not want to use it, so they could have their stats show that people don't use the menu.

Busted RDP client

[Anonymous Coward]

First thing I noticed this morning (after the surprise restart) is the the RDP client was "improved" - Old version had been removed, when I clicked on it the new one downloaded.

All settings and ~ 200 saved sessions gone.

No actual improvement (actually removed functionality)- just so they could throw some lipstick onto the thing.

What did they break?

[OneHundredAndTen]

I mean, it would not be a Windows 10 upgrade if nothing ended up messed up.

Re:What did they break?

[thegarbz]

The start menu. It's right there in the title. They touched it, so it stands to reason that it didn't survive.

Fluent but Ugly

[mcswell]

"...the Start menu which gets a touch of Fluent design, making it look *less* attractive."

There, fixed it for you.

Re:Fluent but Ugly

[mcswell]

Doggone, I'm not even going to argue with you!

I'll do the same thing as when they killed XP, ...

[Grog6]

... and win98: ignore it.

If I have to, because of rampant vulnerabilities, I'll put it on the non-public net, and read email with a Linux machine.
Or an ipad.

Since Gamespy was murdered, Lan games are what we play, so fuck them.
 

Classic Shell

[toejam13]

Call me when they include a classic shell option. I absolutely hate the new Windows 10 start menu. Yes, there is a third party utility that can provide such a menu, but the author has complained about how each new version of Windows makes it increasingly difficult to keep the utility functional.

Re:Classic Shell

[Anonymous Coward]

Wish I had mod points, Classic Shell needs to be perpetuated. Endlessly, at least until MS learns what its true users want and need. They are driving their true users away. (sigh)

Re:Classic Shell

[Anonymous Coward]

Been using Classic Shell on Win8.1, and I love it.

Never cared for Win7's menu. Better than 10 though I suppose.

XP's menu could get messy by default, but was easy to customize. I do the same with Classic Shell.

Re:Classic Shell

[Anonymous Coward]

It's funny because it took a *long* time to get that good. Classic shell is basically the culmination of years of UI design work to get the best balance of function & display, ie: the "layered window manager" with grippable frames and typically some persistent panel/dock. Intuitive, grandma can use it, etc, etc.

They threw it all away because the restless idiot hipsters they hire would rather play interior decorator instead of doing real work like making their OS stable and reliable.

Re:Classic Shell

[thegarbz]

Just what is it specifically that you need Classic Shell for? I'm curious. Personally I disable all that tile shit and then the Start Menu becomes very close to the traditional start menu found in Windows 7 and just turns into a list of programs with a link to documents, pictures and settings.

What is missing?

Change != Improvement

[schwit1]

If MS really wanted to improve windows 10 they would start by moving PC Settings back to Control Panel. And don't install so many services and apps until the user starts them for the first time.

Re:Change != Improvement

[thegarbz]

The vast majority of running services are manually triggered. Just because the user doesn't explicitly start something doesn't mean they aren't needed by something.

As for moving the settings back... I don't care what they do as long as they all end up in the same place. Going to two different places is a pain in the arse. e.g. How come you can add and administer all bluetooth devices from the Bluetooth settings page but you can't connect to a bluetooth access point from there and instead need to open up Devices and Printers. That sort of thing gives me the shits.

Re:Change != Improvement

[UnknowingFool]

The vast majority of running services are manually triggered. Just because the user doesn't explicitly start something doesn't mean they aren't needed by something.

I have never once used the Store. Yet it keeps running with multiple processes. Calculator for some reason keeps running. From what I can tell you have to manually turn OFF the new Win 10 Apps (but you can't turn off Store). They will launch in the background and keep running until that time.

Re: Change != Improvement

[UnknowingFool]

Did you seriously just ask why I am concerned about a process I didn't want to run and I didn't ask to run and isn't vital to the system? Other than the fact that just this March, a Windows update caused the Store app to run at high CPU for some users? It's not like Windows updates are getting better and have fewer issues. MS has had to pull updates 3 times in October alone.

Re: Change != Improvement

[UnknowingFool]

Not only did I ask exactly that, I also eluded that the second half of your sentence is false.

Base on what? Is it based on your presumption that since it doesn't happen to you, it must be false?

Oh noes, a bug!

Which directly answered your question about why I don't like processes running in the background that launch themselves.

So back to the original question, why are you afraid of the number of processes you are running, and doubly so if you don't understand them and they are part of the default system configuration anyway?

You are asserting that I don't know what Store does. I know what the Store does. I know what Calculator does. They are not integral to keeping Windows running. Service Host can be inscrutable as to what is running but Calculator is not.

OMG My Linux box has a process called "deferwq" Quick we need to stop it because I don't know what it does nor did I explicitly start it! It's a quite a silly approach to managing the system.

Red Herring. With Linux there is more assurance that all processes have a function and that it should be running especially if you installed all the software manually. But we are talking about Windows. And by managing a system, you don't monitor what is running on your Windows system? That is a silly way not to manage a system. Considering Windows is the platform with the most worms, trojans, viruses, etc, I'd think it would be foolish for you not to monitor it.

Re: Change != Improvement

[thegarbz]

Base on what? Is it based on your presumption that since it doesn't happen to you, it must be false?

Are you struggling to follow the conversation? Whether it happens to me or not has nothing to do with your reply just now. In fact I told you the service is executed for a specific reason but you seem to have ignored that, written it off as non-vital (presumably from your very intimate knowledge of Windows's inner workings)

Which directly answered your question about why I don't like processes running in the background that launch themselves.

It does nothing of the sort. What you did is called setting up a Strawman Argument. You attempt to distract and legitimise your argument to talking about something completely different. Or do you have a CVE pointing to critical bugs in Microsoft's Store / Licensing system?

You are asserting that I don't know what Store does. I know what the Store does.

If you did, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

Red Herring. With Linux there is more assurance that all processes have a function and that it should be running especially if you installed all the software manually.

Not at all. I installed no such software. But it's running. Who provide assurance to the function? Some paid programmer.

And by managing a system, you don't monitor what is running on your Windows system? That is a silly way not to manage a system.

Of course I do, maybe you should actually read my post to the end rather than typing pointless replies. You could have saved yourself an entire paragraph.

Re: Change != Improvement

[UnknowingFool]

Are you struggling to follow the conversation? Whether it happens to me or not has nothing to do with your reply just now. In fact I told you the service is executed for a specific reason but you seem to have ignored that, written it off as non-vital (presumably from your very intimate knowledge of Windows's inner workings)

What I said specifically and you failed to understand is that Windows 10 Apps run in the background by default without being launched. "The issue is that these apps are always running in the background, even if you didn't open them, and that will drain battery, bandwidth, and system resources." Please up on what Windows does before you go accuse other people of not knowing what the hell they are talking about because you don't seem to know what you are talking about.

It does nothing of the sort. What you did is called setting up a Strawman Argument. You attempt to distract and legitimise your argument to talking about something completely different. Or do you have a CVE pointing to critical bugs in Microsoft's Store / Licensing system?

Baahahahaha. I linked to an exact article showing how an unnecessary service caused high CPU usage possible slowing down or crashing a Windows system for no reason at all. And you denied it.

If you did, we probably wouldn't be having this conversation.

No the problem is that when you challenge people who seem to have a clue you double down.

Not at all. I installed no such software. But it's running. Who provide assurance to the function? Some paid programmer.

Again you do know that Windows does not allow you to finely control what is installed on your system. By paid programmer are you admitting that you don't actually admin your own systems?

Of course I do, maybe you should actually read my post to the end rather than typing pointless replies. You could have saved yourself an entire paragraph.

Buddy you're the one who tried to mansplain something and utterly failed because I happen to know something about computers.

Oh boy..

[AbRASiON]

> "Icons have also been added to the power and user menus"

Here we go.
Did they decide to label them this time?
Do they have any colour or shading?
Do they even have a line / box indicating the shape and size of them or are they all meterial designed on to nothingness?

Modern icons are terrible, thank goodness I don't do first level support anymore.

Stop the presses!

[fustakrakich]

The Start Menu has a new hat!

just give up

[sad_]

2019 will be the year of the linux desktop!

Re:Start menu?

[beuges]

So you're posting on /. from where, exactly?

No drag and drop

[kbg]

Great but no one at Microsoft thought that people would like maybe drag and drop links from the start menu search to the desktop?

Sometimes I wonder if anybody at Microsoft actually uses Windows.

Seconds in the clock UI

[peppepz]

Have they added back the seconds in the clock application or in any of the applets? There is currently no way for me to display a clock with seconds in Windows 10 (or I failed to find it). So if I need to adjust a watch I can't use my PC as a source. It is a pretty basic feature that was present in Windows presumably from version 1.0 and has been removed, with no replacement; because design I suppose.

Re: Seconds in the clock UI

[_Shorty-dammit]

Click the clock in the taskbar?

Re: Seconds in the clock UI

[peppepz]

Doh! Thank you!

Re: Seconds in the clock UI

[chrish]

There's got to be a Rainmeter https://www.rainmeter.net/ clock that shows seconds.

Re:Start menu?

[tepples]

I assume posting on Slashdot is still possible from a terminal-based web browser such as w3m or elinks, unless a CAPTCHA on registration prevents that.

Time.gov

[tepples]

Until Microsoft solves the problem, let's explore workarounds. From what source are you adjusting the PC's clock itself? I guess you could use Time.gov unless you have an aversion to running gummint scripts in the browser.

Re:Start menu?

[tepples]

There is always the mp3 version of the captcha if you don't have a GUI to display the image.

Does registration on Slashdot have the MP3 version?

Though I have a hard time believing anyone on here hasn't actually used a GUI even if they choose not use one on their personal computers.

Some Slashdot users are blind and for this reason interact with Slashdot through a screen reader.

Perhaps they will fix...

[BrendaEM]

Perhaps they will fix the Wifi that keeps disconnecting. Perhaps they will finish the user settings. Perhaps they will fix the bugs that let the users set default programs. Perhaps they will fix the Bluetooth file transfer, that thinks you want to okay every single transfer. Perhaps not, because Microsoft is an old top-heavy company filled with dead wood.

I may never see their changes

[ASCIIxTended]

Step one: Install Windows.
Step two: Start IE or Edge long enough to go to Ninite.com
Step three: Download custom Ninite installer for Chrome, Firefox, 7Zip, VLC, SumatraPDF, Notepad++, PuTTY, and most importantly CLASSIC START.

Goodbye stupid Windows ad menu.