Steam is Finally Coming To China But Chinese Gamers Don't Want It (abacusnews.com)

Valve officially announced this week the arrival of Steam China in Shanghai. But Chinese gamers are telling the PC gaming platform to "get lost!" From a report: One of the most upvoted comments wrote, "Steam China get out of China." It's important to point out that gamers are directing their anger at Steam China, not Steam. In fact, Chinese gamers love Steam... the global version of it, anyway. There are an estimated 30 million Chinese users playing games on the platform -- games which otherwise aren't officially available in China.

But that's exactly why they fear the launch of Steam China, which is a joint venture between Valve and Chinese company Perfect World. Gamers worry that not only will Steam China be a heavily censored platform with a much smaller lineup of titles; worse yet, it might also be the trigger for the government to ban the global version of Steam.

Comments

Re:Chinese gamers would not want to be banned

[Anonymous Coward]

But if Chinese can't play Global Steam, who will I buy my gold from?

Not again....

[TAz00]

gaben@valvesoftware.com

Re:Not again....

[Anonymous Coward]

quitbeingastupidfag@stfu.com

ban the global version

[Anonymous Coward]

that's exactly what will happen. can't have gamers accessing 'unauthorized' titles. ones that might offend the government or portray it negatively in any way, or might allow unfiltered, un-tappable user-to-user chat...

Re:ban the global version

[Anonymous Coward]

can't have gamers accessing 'unauthorized' titles. ones that might offend the government

Another exported success story from Germany.

Re:ban the global version

[Anonymous Coward]

Did the old games cause carpal tunnel syndrome?

Re: ban the global version

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah Germany is ridiculous.
Unfree socialist state just like it was. The only difference is now it want to hurt its own people instead.

Re:ban the global version

[Anonymous Coward]

or might allow unfiltered, un-tappable user-to-user chat...

A game chat surely is 'tappable'. It goes over the same cables as regular chat - subject to sniffing by government spies. Obviously, intelligence officers may also join the games and pretend to play them, in order to figure out if it is being used as a covert channel.

A game with chat functionality is no more special than 'yet another chat app'.

Re: ban the global version

[Anonymous Coward]

Game chat is extremely open...you don't even need the game to spy on chat, voice or text.

The FBI has monitored WoW on record, who knows what other games they watch?

Goodbye, my Chinese friends.

[Anonymous Coward]

All 1 of them.

Seriously though, don't rock the boat unless you want to sink.
You fucked up Valve, you fucked up big.
Enjoy killing yourself out of the market before you even had a chance.
You just created a 30+ million country of pirates when Steam does get banned and everyone is "forced" in to Steam China censorship.
They'll not buy the games after that. No chance.

Re:Goodbye, my Chinese friends.

[Anonymous Coward]

china numba one

Re: Goodbye, my Chinese friends.

[aliquis]

Lorelei.

Re:Goodbye, my Chinese friends.

[Luckyo]

Wrong tree to take a piss on. With the ongoing crackdown on gaming in China, it's almost certain that Steam is getting banned on the Great Firewall of China in near future. Valve simply sees the writing on the wall and is attempting to keep at least some of the market share.

Valve isn't the cause here. It's the victim desperately trying to adapt to the changing environment before it's killed off by the government entirely.

Re: Goodbye, my Chinese friends.

[Anonymous Coward]

The chinese people are the only morons to blame for this. Push back against the government or stop bitching.

Re: Goodbye, my Chinese friends.

[Luckyo]

I guess you also blame German Jews for the holocaust?

Re: Goodbye, my Chinese friends.

[Anonymous Coward]

Hmmmm, I'm gonna get some shit for this but...
Had that 180,000 chose to fight instead of hop on a train to be divided and conquored they might have made a difference.

Re: Goodbye, my Chinese friends.

[Luckyo]

You're not wrong. But that's not how human psyche works. At all. You may as well expect ants to value the individual ant or suggest that sea cucumbers should fly.

Re: Goodbye, my Chinese friends.

[Cederic]

That didn't go so well for them in the Warsaw ghetto. Still the right option though.

China is a different situation. Many people in China have survived the cultural revolution and seen their children attain a middle class lifestyle. By US or European standards it's horribly compromised but by Chinese standards this is a massive step forward.

They're more likely to celebrate than revolt. Change has happened and it's possible that it'll continue to happen. The current Chinese Government's actions on the Internet are an acknowledgement that they're losing the cultural battle; closing off the current communications routes will merely open others.

Remember your Gilmore.

Re: Goodbye, my Chinese friends.

[Cederic]

Oh, and comically I forgot to mention your curious choice of number.

I think you'll find that rather more than 180k Jewish people prematurely lost their lives between 1938 and 1945. While precise numbers are constantly debated I think 5-6 million is a reasonable estimate.

Re: Chinese gamers would not want to be banned

[Anonymous Coward]

Guess they should have thought about that a long time ago

In Korea

[Anonymous Coward]

In Korea only old people use Steam.

Re:In Korea

[Anonymous Coward]

You are not even a Korean, are you? 4.5 million active users out of ~50 million population are old people? BattleGround is on Steam and I know there are many young kids play the game. Duh.

Wrong problem

[mwvdlee]

So the Chinese citizens' solution to stopping government censorship and overreach is to try and get a foreign company to stop a product that works with their government.

Seems like the wrong target to attack. How about revolting against your government instead?

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

That's not true. Most Chinese I know like their culture and history. Their current government is scary, they know it, and thats just The Way It Is, and they have many friends and family still in China. I asked my ex why there was no change if most people feel repression on some level... She said to me, how can you change the moon? And if you changed it, would it be better? Could you protect your family if the moon fell from the sky? Leave the moon there.

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

So is that nice way of saying they're too cowards to attack the regime so they don't get jailed? Or what?

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Revolution is the only thing left on the table after the freedom to express grievances and opinions is derived from the citizens at the threat of abductions, tanks rolling over, imprisonment for something made up, being poisoned or beaten to death and getting shot at the street. Extreme measures over trivial matters is a sing of a terrified government.

Re:Wrong problem

[Dunbal]

Their current government is scary

I believe this is not a sentiment you will only find in China. It happens everywhere people find out that government isn't really about them, but about what's good for the people in government. Go ask in Venezuela, in Iran, in the UK or even in the US. You will get pretty much that same answer.

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

They don't like it exactly, it's more of a thing or reality that's always there. Of course it's imposed, but they don't really see a realistic alternative, and that's the way government likes it.

Re:Wrong problem

[JaredOfEuropa]

There are plenty of people here, in our free society, who would not mind some of what the Chinese have. A ban on certain opinions. Bans or controls on addictive substances. Extensive monitoring of public and private life to catch fraudsters and such. A strong authoritative leader. Suppression of certain social groups. Thinkofthechildrenism. No violent video games or movies. Harsh punishment for antisocial behaviour. People have a strong aversion to being controlled, but they just love to impose controls on others.

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Not so much "yellow vest", more "yellow turban" or "yellow scarves". Also, Heavenly Kingdom.
CCP will not let things get out of hand, even if they have to crack skulls. The alternative is, at least in their eyes, a civil war.

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

For historical context on why your comment would be censored in China:

So the British colonist solution to stopping government censorship and overreach is to try and get a foreign company to stop a product that works with their government.

Seems like the wrong target to attack. How about revolting against your government instead?

Re: Wrong problem

[peragrin]

Which is why America some what works. Every few years the core of the government changes. A constant change which then gets stuck doing the same things.

It is why we need term limits for Congress. To let them be changed more often, and to not let Gerry mandered districts dictate the future.

Re:Wrong problem

[DNS-and-BIND]

There was a column published in the New York Times that gazed longingly at China and wished they could have the same system here. No messy democracy, no morons protesting, no fake news, just the smart people [Times readers] get to rule society as they see fit. They make the hard decisions that they see as necessary. Decisions we won't like but that someone has to step up and tell us "no". When China decides there will be a road or a bridge somewhere, it just happens. No debate, no citizens council, no environmental impact statements. One can see how elites greatly envy China and wish they could have that here. Oh, the great things they could accomplish without our interference!

Re:Wrong problem

[DNS-and-BIND]

Because the Communist Party has delivered 30 years of nonstop growth? Things are better every day in China. Revolutions happen when the people are not taken are of, the Communists know this well as it's how they got into power in the first place. People can gripe all they want but the Party is delivering the goods. Who would be insane enough to plunge China into chaos? They did chaos already, it didn't work out well for them.

Re:Wrong problem

[AmiMoJo]

If they revolt they will be killed or sent to re-education camps. If they just use the US version of Steam at worst one or two of those millions might go to jail and more likely the government will just block it one day.

Also this is a bunch of gamers, probably lacking much political engagement and given all the bad press about video games in China at the moment probably lacking much public support too.

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

My employee ate rats and small birds when he was young.
Now he has a good job and a stable income.
He is one of the 800 million China has brought out of poverty the last 40 years. He is also one of the 400 million who has made it into the middle class.

This is not the generation that will revolt against their government.
Frankly, the western democracies are closer to revolt than China.

Re: Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

How about we have term limits on you, and people like you? Gerrymandering has been around almost as long as the republic, and Democrats have profited from it richly in the past. Now that the Republicans have finally figured out how to use one of the Democrats' weapons against them, it's wrong?

So yes, let's have "term limits" on the same broken-record blather from people like you. Term limits on Congress would be great, so long as it lets us get rid of more Republicans, right? Right? Of course.

We won't need them once the Democrats hold the House and Senate, though.

Re:Wrong problem

[fbobraga]

They LIKE their government.

Something like it happens in Venezuela: it's will call it a 'dictatorship' hurts so many people...

* just call it authoritarian for now on to let chinese people in in this debate, please
* the linked article defines sensationalism :/

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I asked my ex why there was no change if most people feel repression on some level... She said to me, how can you change the moon? And if you changed it, would it be better? Could you protect your family if the moon fell from the sky? Leave the moon there.

Sheep.

But not an uncommon mentality in Asia. It's the norm to obey whatever authority appointed itself over you.

Re:Wrong problem

[fbobraga]

in our free society

It's really free? https://www.ted.com/talks/jaro... https://libreflix.org/assistir... https://libreflix.org/assistir...
* most Venezuelans think they are in a 'free society', so are most Russians and Turkeys, etc...

Re: Wrong problem

[aliquis]

Aren't we all?

Re: Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you an idiot? It doesn't matter which party is subverting democracy...

Who cares which side of the same coin is cheating with Gerrymandering currently? It needs to stop.

Fuck Republicans and fuck democrats. Term limits for all government offices!

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

T...Extensive monitoring of public and private life to catch fraudsters and such.

China's really knocking that ball out of the park.... oh wait? Chinese is almost synonymous with scam?

Re:Wrong problem

[Cmdln Daco]

The nearly 1 million China citizens of Islamic orientation in re-education camps LOVE China. That's why they need to be re-educated.

Re:Wrong problem

[WindBourne]

They did. You obviously do not know about Tienanmen Square.
The citizen will need time before uprising again.
Until then, it is best to put pressure on the gov, via the outside.
Just keep in mind that Chinese gov has loads of ppl that are trolling here and lying to push Chinese gov POV.

Re:Wrong problem

[WindBourne]

ahhh. Somebody that works for the Chinese gov.
No, the average Chinese does NOT like their gov. They just know that uprising now will not work.

Re:Wrong problem

[Luckyo]

Most Chinese people in general have no idea about their culture and history because Cultural Revolution has actually happened. I've no idea who your Chinese friends are, but chances are, they're not from actual PRC. As in not even raised there, much less living there, which seems to be what you're implying.

And there's well in excess of billion of Chinese people living in PRC, who very much support their government in most things, because state propaganda is near absolute.

Re:Wrong problem

[cascadingstylesheet]

Go ask in Venezuela, in Iran, in the UK or even in the US. You will get pretty much that same answer.

{Sesame Street}Two of these things are not like the other ... two of these things are not quite the same ... {/Sesame Street}

Every place has problems, but no, the UK and US are not totalitarian dictatorships, outside of the fever dreams of overexcited political junkies.

Re: Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Have you seen what street vendors sell in China? I think your employee was just commenting that he moved to a different country.

Re: Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

It is why we need term limits for Congress. To let them be changed more often, and to not let Gerry mandered districts dictate the future.

Term limits don't really help with gerrymandering. Gerrymandering is a round-off fault of a system where "majority in a region elects a single representative for that region". Other countries solves this by not electing "one person from each of many small districts", but instead "10 persons from a 10x larger district".

So if the votes in this larger district is 60% democrat, 30% republican and 10% independent, you get 6 democrats, 3 republicans and one independent oddball. But today's system could give you anything from 10 democrats to 10 republicans - depending on the shape of those smaller districts. Gerrymandering is a solved problem - solved by proportional representation.

Re:Wrong problem

[Type44Q]

People have a strong aversion to being controlled, but they just love to impose controls on others.

You've just lumped together (under the general heading of "them") two completely different kinds of personalities with rather little overlap.

Re:Wrong problem

[N1AK]

And before you bring up Tianenmen square (which was over 20 years ago) I will just say: yellow vest.

You're right, I couldn't believe it when the French military opened fire with tanks and killed hundreds of peacefully protesting students in yellow vests on the Champs-Élysées...

If only the French loved their government as much as the Chinese love theirs, surely then we'd have hundreds of thousands of French people attending *definitely not prisons* education camps to learn to better express that love.

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

No messy democracy - just the fear that you wake up dead someday. Democracy or dictatorship - you may loose power someday. That is less dramatic in a democracy.

No fake news? Sorry, dictatorships has tons of fake news. Usually about how great the the system is and how great the great leader is. Take a look at newspapers from Germany, early 1944. Any signs of problems? For the government? Of course not, everything is fine (and anyone saying anything else will be shot for defeatism.)

You can accomplish a lot without interference. Stuff that isn't worth much - such as those Chinese cities with no citizens in them. Built due to central planning . . .

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

So the Chinese citizens' solution to stopping government censorship and overreach is to try and get a foreign company to stop a product that works with their government.

Seems like the wrong target to attack. How about revolting against your government instead?

You don't seem to understand the culture of China (or most Asian countries) -- there is no real freedom of speech. Deep inside Chinese people, they loyal to their country or they fear to be terminated if they show any resistance. A revolution needs people that aren't afraid to die and the people who want to do that are extreme people. China is a huge country, so you would need a lot of extremists because not many regular people would want to follow. Furthermore, unlike western countries, you could be dead and the reason of your dead could be fabricated to tarnish your name. No legitimate investigation. Thus, you just waste your life for nothing.

How many lives do you want to waste before you get the real freedom? And if you want to suggest on revolution, why aren't you the first to do that in the country rather than saying/telling others to do? Insightful? Hmm...

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Conveniently lost the link?

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Young Chinese are not afraid of their government because of what happened at Tiananmen square. They haven't heard about it.

They may be scared because some topics and some words and some dates are banned. Trying to dig up why, gets you some very clear & stern warnings, and perhaps some privileges lost already. Goodbye job/education or whatever. If you keep digging around such known taboos, you might find a reference to something at "Tiananmen square" among other info. And you'll find that all who asked about that are gone. They are not around here anymore, so you cannot ask further. Scary.

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

There are plenty of people here, in our free society, who would not mind some of what the Chinese have. A ban on certain opinions. Bans or controls on addictive substances. Extensive monitoring of public and private life to catch fraudsters and such. A strong authoritative leader. Suppression of certain social groups. Thinkofthechildrenism. No violent video games or movies. Harsh punishment for antisocial behaviour. People have a strong aversion to being controlled, but they just love to impose controls on others.

State sanctioned religions, weak environmental protection controls, going to jail for badmouthing the leader, I mean what part of flyover country wouldn’t vote for all that?

Re: Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Imagine if you had a job where mostly you do nothing, but you have lots of opportunities to scam as much as you'd like, and you are already the criminal type.

There is only one downside, the job lasts 5 to 10 years and then you have a 5 to 10 year hiatus before you can work again.

The criminal is going to double or triple his scamming so he can weather out the dry spell. He isn't going to be reformed.

He also isn't going to be mad when the inevitable hiatus comes round. He knew it was part of the deal. He's just going to wait for next time.

And that's your system in the US. Canada, too, since we only elect two parties to power.

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

In China that revolt thing is hard mode. Last time they tried, Tanks happened.

Re: Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Every few years the core of the government changes.

Go ahead and keep telling yourself that.

Re: Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I have, and I have eaten some.

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah - man, I was really confused which side of politics you were referring to. Both. Well done.

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Like most places they couldn't give two shits.
Americans are always complaining about their government but never do anything to fix it.
Take the last Presidential election, two complete and total losers. Hillary came third, Trump came second, didn't even bother to vote came first...

Re:Wrong problem

[mlw4428]

Well now that your bold claim is in, how about something like evidence to back up your statement? A source? Anything more than your anecdotal response of a highly unlikely article?

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

So in other words you meant that the article doesn't really exist

Re: Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

And we have weapons, especifically given to be able to overthrow the government.

Re:Wrong problem

[Lothsahn]

+1

Re:Wrong problem

[Solandri]

The Communist Party has been in control there for 69 years. They're the reason China is so behind the rest of the world. China's growth didn't begin until they got out of the way and allowed capitalistic reforms - allowed people to build and run businesses without Party interference. Giving them credit for the growth is rather like thanking your prison guard for not beating you today.

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly how many Chinese people do you know/have met, and actually talked to them about culture and history to make such a consensus?

CR occurred but didn't exactly wipe out everything. They teach history in China. "New Confucianism" is an actually considered a thing these days in China.

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I think there is a misconception that Tianenmen was totally peaceful. But really, part of the issue was actually that the policing force was relatively weak back then, and simply didn't have riot gear, tear gas, bean bag launchers, etc., to deal with the issue. If they did, the solution would have probably been different.

Re:Wrong problem

[DNS-and-BIND]

Yes, they are taking the capitalist road to achieve socialism. This was Deng Xiaoping in the 80s. Please do try to keep up.

Re:Wrong problem

[fibonacci8]

That sounds suspiciously like the premise for Plato's Republic. But with bits about the New York Times added in as a distraction.

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

The thing is CR is such a mix bag. There were certainly bad elements to it, but there were good things that occurred from it. You had for the first time people moving all over the place in China. Intelligent people going to the country side, etc., so society became more "mobile". This had to change to some degree the culture, if not general nationalism rather than a very clanish outlook at things. Moreover despite universities being closed temporarily in the beginning, you had elementary schools, middle schools, high schools, etc. being opened up in the countryside. I mean back then when literacy rates were really low, universities weren't as necessary as elementary schools. Women were seen as equal counterparts to men. Certain aspects of traditional culture was lost, but you have to remember how idiotic some/much of that trad. culture was, or how superstitious it was, or how rigid as a society it was. Not being able to do certain things on certain days because of some astrological forces in play is just idiotic. People may point to Taiwan, but Taiwan had close to 50 years of colonization by the Japanese who somewhat already modernized the culture there.

There are many who claim that what happened in the last 30 years could happen because CR happened. Whether there were more benign versions of CR that could have occurred is another argument. It can be argued that India needs a CR of sorts, with their rather feudal caste system still in place after 70 or so years of independence.

Re:Wrong problem

[DNS-and-BIND]

Seriously? You can't imagine Times readers thinking themselves the world's panacea if they were only handed absolute power with no interference from the people? Hell, they jack off to it every day. A government composed of The Smart People in society, empowered to do what they think is right without any restrictions? You really find this unlikely?

Re:Wrong problem

[Luckyo]

It wiped out enough for overwhelming majority of the culture to have been wiped out. One has to be an incredible apologist for Mao to pretend otherwise.

It's obvious that Chinese culture will continue to be permeated by the Confucian principles, such as societal harmony. But such base principles permeate all societies of East Asia, and culture is built on top of them. And in case of China, if you want to find Chinese culture, there's really only one place left where it survived. ROC.

In mainland China, it's post-Cultural Revolution state, where Chinese culture has been utterly eradicated. Whatever remains of it has been utterly twisted and corrupted by Mao's version of Marxism.

Re:Wrong problem

[Glarimore]

It doesn't matter what anyone can imagine. You still haven't produced the article in question even after being asked for it.

Re:Wrong problem

[mlw4428]

Good god. The actual content of your reply is nonsensical and a little fucking batshit insane. Just answer my question so I can do my own research: can you post your source for the NY Times article you mentioned?

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

That is true and it is still on-going I think. They twisted history of their own and the countries around them. DO NOT trust everything they say about their own history.

Re: Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Have fun with your stupid fucking bump stocked capgun as a drone takes out your half of the block. I get more depressed every time someone brings this retarded point up.

Re: Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Absolutely no one thinks one person with a gun is able to overthrow a government. Or go against a tank. Or a drone.

Why people keep making this stupid comparison is beyond me.

How about a million people with a million guns? This is a real existential problem for a tyrannical government no matter what tanks and drones they have, and if you don't see why, you haven't really thought this out.

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

30 years of growth out of almost 70 years existence isn't a good track record. They also had to adopt the policies of the systems they deem almost as an enemy in order to achieve that growth. With a mix of totalitarianism to force it to happen. They have a risk of sliding backwards though, with recent changes making them closer to the communism they were straying from in these last 30 years.

Re:Wrong problem

[Luckyo]

Well, considering that no one still knows even what the approximate number of deaths has been as a result of Mao's policies, it's rather hard to produce a reliable account that we could evaluate for trustworthiness in the first place.

Re:Wrong problem

[Darinbob]

Of course it can change. It was changed completely less than a century ago.

Re:Wrong problem

[Darinbob]

Steam is merely a market place. Few people use the Steam extras (voice chat, text overlays) and there is plenty of healthy competition there. But as a market place, big deal, why does it matter if there are fans or detractors? That's like posting an article saying that the Chinese don't like Tesco. As a market place, Steam has a big drawback of DRM (not the same as anti-piracy), not as onerous as some competitors but it's still a drawback.

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Exactly what is Chinese culture? When you say that Chinese culture was wiped out. What was wiped out exactly that was extremely worth saving? Care to give some examples? Mao stated that he was basically burning down Chinese culture, but he said that the bad would be destroyed, while the good would continue on regardless and could not be eradicated.

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually if you read academic papers, there was growth throughout the 70 years existence. Although it might have been slower prior to the 80s due to international economic sanctions and such. Once the external environment shifted, boom, China started growing instead at 8-12% a year versus the 3% or so.

The Communist government argues that Mao's policy may have not been the best, but also the environment which he existed in, was much different than the late 70s/80s, when Deng comes into power. It may also be said that without Mao's opening up of China with the US to fight together against the Soviets, the environment may have persisted longer.

Re:Wrong problem

[youngone]

DNS-and-BIND is doing the classic right wing trick of pretending the "left" are what the right actually is.
As everyone knows it's the right that spends so much effort on worrying about everyone's sexual orientation and which toilet they use, but apparently it's the "left" who are the authoritarians.

Re:Wrong problem

[youngone]

...allowed people to build and run businesses without Party interference.

You have misunderstood how things work in China.
Try reading some history books, or even better visit China.
Talk to a few of the locals, they're nice enough people, and they're always keen to practise their english.

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

the Communist Party has delivered 30 years of nonstop growth

What about them other years?

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

So the Chinese citizens' solution to stopping government censorship and overreach is to try and get a foreign company to stop a product that works with their government.

Seems like the wrong target to attack. How about revolting against your government instead?

With modern technology and surveilance, they have no chance at all..not one... it was likely already difficult enough in the old days, but today it would be completely impossible. Same goes for just about any country in the world today.

Re:Wrong problem

[Luckyo]

You answered your own question there, if you understand Mao's base tenets and have even a cursory understanding of history of China.

Re:Wrong problem

[Cederic]

30 years of growth out of the last 30 is a good track record.
https://data.worldbank.org/ind...

I expect their growth to slow mainly because they're catching up with the US and Europe and growth from there is inherently slower. Whether it's further slowed by a change in Government policy or kept above global averages by those policies is going to be interesting in the next couple of decades. But as I said, I expect their growth to slow from its current rate.

Re:Wrong problem

[Cederic]

this is a bunch of gamers, probably lacking much political engagement

There are over 550 million 'gamers' in China, but feel free to write them off as inconsequential and irrelevant, instead of the majority of people under the age of 50.

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm pretty sure I have more than a mere cursory understanding of Chinese history. The question still remains, what Chinese culture was wiped out. Please give some examples. You constantly pose as an expert on Chinese culture, but when asked to explain the basis of your opinions, you never do. If anything it appears you have a superficial knowledge about China. Do you speak a Chinese dialect? Can you read Chinese? When you ask random Chinese people about Chinese history, what were the questions you asked about regarding culture and history?

BTW. try asking random Americans about American history, and see how little they know about their own history, laws, and culture. I'm fairly sure American knowledge about their own history is much less despite its history being significantly shorter. If you can watch CCTV, at least 2 stations have pretty much non-stop broadcast about history/culture, and another shows almost non-stop Chinese opera. What you don't find on Chinese TV are nearly any idiotic "history" shows that try to establish that aliens created everything of note.

Re:Wrong problem

[djinn6]

More importantly, they lack political engagement because they're too busy playing games. Take that away and they'll have time to think about overthrowing the party.

Re:Wrong problem

[Luckyo]

Gotta say, this is the strangest troll I've had in a while. I'll entertain it for a while I suppose.

It seems that you're confusing "knowledge of history" with "culture". Direction from former to latter is in fact non-existent. As easily evidenced by the fact that culture existed and was passed down generations when most people were subsistence farmers. By your argument, culture didn't exist until Weimar style schooling system came into existence, or until broadcast television came to exist in each country.

Now, if we take your argument as gospel truth, you're absolutely correct. Cultural Revolution didn't actually wipe out Chinese culture, because Chinese culture just didn't exist before it, as most people before it were subsistence farmers, like in much of the rest of the world, and as such, had no culture. But as I note above, you argument is utterly absurd on merits, and goes into some kind of postmodern warping of meaning of words to mean utterly different things to justify the conclusion you're heading to.

And so, I'm done addressing this particular line of trolling. If you have an argument that can work without this grade of BS, make it. Otherwise, head back under your bridge.

Re:Wrong problem

[AmiMoJo]

Gamers who play on mobile phones... Remember that until very recently there was a ban on importing consoles so it was either Chinese domestic ones (mostly knock-offs of 16 bit era or ARM based emulation boxes) or a relatively expensive gaming PC.

And this population is 30 million, still quite significant but I'm betting that the intersection of gamers using Steam and people politically motivated enough to fight the system is quite small.

Re:Wrong problem

[Cederic]

PC gamers: Wealthier than the average population. More technically proficient.

That means they're influencers within their social spheres. Family, friends.

They don't need to fight the system. They just need to mention how shitty it is. Others will fight it for them.

Plus your 30 million is too low, according to another post further down.

Re:Wrong problem

[sound vision]

China moved from communism to pragmatic socialism and turned a shithole into a superpower within a few decades.

It seems that once you get rid of inflexible ideology, you can focus on what matters, instead of fixating on how thoroughly "communist" or "capitalist" you can be. China has began to dispense with the rigid ideology the past few decades. The US has doubled down on ideology. Guess which country is rising, and which is falling.

Re:Wrong problem

[Anonymous Coward]

LOL. I'm not trolling but simply pointing out that you make statements and then provide no basis to them. You still haven't stated WHAT culture was wiped out. You keep dodging the main question, and persist on not simply answering the question. You obviously don't speak Chinese. You probably know a token Chinese friend or two and not particularly well because frankly Americans have a different definition of what a friend is, therefore establishing some anecdotal evidence of...

"Most Chinese people in general have no idea about their culture and history because Cultural Revolution has actually happened. I've no idea who your Chinese friends are, but chances are, they're not from actual PRC. As in not even raised there, much less living there, which seems to be what you're implying."

There's almost no doubt you're simply full of shit. Normal people who have no knowledge of Chinese culture will not watch Chinese opera because they simply don't know the stories and cultural themes being presented, yet they have a channel JUST for that. Obviously there are people who still enjoy watching it. Ask Chinese people to spout out a line of poetry or a couple of chengyu and I'm sure they can at least state a few, and the historical basis of it. Now ask someone to do the same in America.

You haven't even named one example, because you probably don't even know what Chinese culture was like prior CR and after CR. What were major cultural themes in China's history? What was the culture like e.g. During the Xia-Shang-Zhou period. How did that change in the imperial dynastic period of Qin-Han, how did that change again during Sui-Tang, to Song to Yuan to Ming-Yuan-Qing. Then finally tell me what was the culture like during the Republican era and how that eventually evolved into PRC era. You probably don't even have a basic understanding of the fundamental changes or the devolution/resynthesis cycles that went on, but you keep acting like you do.

/.mindmaid subscription service debut

[Anonymous Coward]

the virtual end of indecision? your eyelids may seem like they're getting heavier all the time, but who cares when all the important stuff is indexed in the mymindmaid(bm) cloud y f(r)onts, & filtering away annoying or demanding stuff can be done with 1 click? why bother searching any further? pay what you want, when you want to? getting the complimentary implant installed is quick, painless & free. (injection site may sprout folical antennae in remote locations)...

Re: /.mindmaid subscription service debut

[Anonymous Coward]

I will improve the intellectual quality of slashdot with one word: djjdjdjjsjjsjjxjjeueudhnskduekxkdjjsnsjxnd

Re: Chinese gamers would not want to be banned

[Anonymous Coward]

They did, and they earned a bunch of gold. Then they moved onto other worthless digital currencies that they can sell to lonely nerds, like bitcoin.

Good, get lost.

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm sick of seeing Chinese gamers screaming WE NEED CHINESE TRANLSATION on every fucking game, shitting up the workshop with their translations and not tagging them as such, and giving games bad reviews because the developer DARED to not know their language.

Perfect name

[Dan East]

If ever there was a perfect name for a communist "company", "Perfect World" would be it.

Re:Perfect name

[fbobraga]

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt3...

Dissent by proxy

[iTrawl]

Well done rulers of China, you got dissent by proxy. They can't criticise you guys directly, but they'll rise up via the commercial products that you guys get your hands into.

Doublethink:
1. Communist Party is the best party in the world (except for the US, who now have the best of everything)
2. Steam sucks! We want better games! We demand change!

Re:Dissent by proxy

[Anonymous Coward]

Actually it's dissent by VPN.

Venezuela is the country that appraises more...

[fbobraga]

... 'democracy', in Latin america by far, in the http://www.latinobarometro.org... : maybe something like it (misunderstanding a foreign concept, for cultural/political reasons) is happening in China against Steam...

Fringe

[jbmartin6]

Chinese gamers love Steam... the global version of it, anyway. There are an estimated 30 million Chinese users playing games on the platform

For China, 30 million is just a fringe user base. I think it would be accurate to rephrase as 'not very many Chinese gamers have even heard of Steam'

Re:Fringe

[Type44Q]

For China, 30 million is just a fringe user base.

That depends entirely on how poor your math skills are: are you comparing that figure to the number of PC gamers in China or the number of people??

Re:Fringe

[Anonymous Coward]

" I think it would be accurate to rephrase as 'not very many Chinese gamers have even heard of Steam'"

Might be even more accurate to rephrase as "Most chinese realize that Steam is in fact foreign, and they know how their government treats foreign companies. They could wake up one day and for seemingly little reason find steam banned in china and all their money spent will be gone."

A lot more chinese gamers may pick up a chinese controlled steam once it's launched and been around for a little while since they can probably be assured it won't be outright banned one morning because somebody released a game about defacing a particular flag or a game called TANKS VS CITIZENZ! (in the way this comment might get slashdot swept up in their great firewall for a while.)

Re:Fringe

[larryjoe]

For China, 30 million is just a fringe user base.

That depends entirely on how poor your math skills are: are you comparing that figure to the number of PC gamers in China or the number of people??

According to this article, there are around 300 million PC gamers in China. So, the 30 million is still a small portion of gamers. However, many Chinese gamers play in internet cafes, and those are the gamers that Steam wants to access.

Because they can't

[Anonymous Coward]

Dissent is censored, shamed, you're put on lists of undesirables, life will be made difficult for you

There is no such rule against Steam China so all they can do is protest Steam China.

SJW cowards

[Anonymous Coward]

Where are all the SJW's? China is great, free market...bs bs bs.

And this is who America ought to open markets with?
Get 'em Trump! Let the economic war begin. I know who will win.

Re:SJW cowards

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck off troll. "What about"-ism is the popular tool of keeping the weak minded content.

Pay for games on steam or ...

[stinkyjak]

Could it be that most Chinese already have better access to free hacked or pirated versions of those offered via steam by pay.

forget the politics

[Anonymous Coward]

perfect world does not need to be running any segment of steam, full stop.

8th year player of Forsaken World here. We can testify to their ineptitude.

Chinese will ruin the world

[Anonymous Coward]

Everything goes to shit when Chinese are involved.

Re:Steam is Not So Good for Females, Anyway

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe if you focused on protecting PEOPLE from attacks, and degrading posts, you would get some support. I don't really want to be threatened with rape, nutsack, or any other "jokes" either.

Re:Steam is Not So Good for Females, Anyway

[Anonymous Coward]

What's wrong with the existing rules which already prohibit harassment and the like? Or is your issue with enforcement?

WTF are you smoking?

[Anonymous Coward]

They can just stick it into Bing and do a search, it's not tricky.

Re:WTF are you smoking?

[WindBourne]

Nope. Bing is scrubbed by Chinese firewall. However, Google/Bing/etc are not needed. Not all stories are in writing and ppl talk.

Fuck you / .

[Anonymous Coward]

Every article I read nowadays almost political on /. What the fuck happens to actual tech news.

If only the people of China could do something...

[SpencerWilliams]

Steam China get out of China? Because they don't like their own government-imposed censorship? Do any of these firebrands plan to change any of their own draconian policies?

Re:Steam is Not So Good for Females, Anyway

[Lothsahn]

I agree with this. Sexual abuse and harassment against any person, whether they be female, male, intrasex, or otherwise is wrong. As I understand it, steam rules exist to prevent harassment, and topics that are political or flamebait get locked by moderators quickly, like your above topic.

It's right in the steam topic that you created, before it got locked:
Ask for rules that protect everyone.
Wait, the rules are there.
Report and move on.

I suspect you're not getting the support you want from the Steam and Slashdot crowds because many of us are against identity politics. Instead of identifying and grouping people based on aspects of their identity, many of us (myself included) prefer to deem harassment, sexual assault and vitrol as unwanted and bad against ALL users and put in place rules to protect everyone, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, or other aspects of one's identity.

I fully recognize that certain groups of individuals may encounter harassment, assault, and vitrol more than others, but that simply means that the rules provide those people more protection and redress, which is a GOOD THING(tm).

The moon? The frickin' government!!!

[SpencerWilliams]

But... China's government is composed of their own people! Yes, let us bring up Tianenmen Square where almost every single effing Chinese citizen was in support of the movement. There was a very *very* small group of people who gave the military (most of whom indeed supported this movement!) orders to kill their own people, so that everyone with a uniform and a gun who did not want to do this nevertheless told themselves they have to because these really powerful people are giving them orders. Yes, if only China governend itself... if only China was ruled by its own effing citizens instead of viewing their leadership as some kind of inanimate object that gives them orders they all disagree with. Effing ridiculous...

What might this mean for the inverse?

[Monster_user]

So, with China cracking down on ways to get around filters, what is this going to mean for the quality of games coming out of China?

Perfect World is mentioned here as teaming up with Steam. Perfect World is a developer, owner, and publisher of MMORPGs, Notable examples of games they have include: Neverwinter Online, Star Trek Online, Torchlight, Final Fantasy Type-0, Champions Online, and City of Heroes.

How much of this content is designed in China these days? How much of the content that appeals to a western audience is based on media and artwork provided over a VPN connection?

What impact will this have on trade, and communication, and relationships? What will we have in common once "The Great [Fire]Wall of China" goes up? How will we maintain the peace when there is nothing to bring us together peacefully?

Call Trump

[Anonymous Coward]

Its Ironic that the Chinese people dont want this because its their governments own policy of forced IP theft in order to enter the Chinese market in progress.

We should all stop buying Chinese products whenever possible until this is resolved. I already have.

Why do you always lie WindBourne?

[Anonymous Coward]

You claim to know many Chinese people. Ask one of them to search in Bing and tell you what they find. Why constantly lie about things all the time?

at least 1person approves of all WindBournes lies

[Anonymous Coward]

Seems like at least one person approves of all WindBournes lies...
Or did WindBourne get a mod point?

WindBourne opened strongly with a lie about American beef. Directly contradicting the link in the post he responded to. No excuse for that one.

Then he quickly followed up with a two for one. Claiming America makes the most Electric vehicles and buys the most efficient air conditioners.

He was really on a roll, as almost immediately he posted this set of lies, claiming China has the worse air conditioning efficiency (they are better than America) and falsely accusing someone else of lying (even though they showed links). He also doubled down on his lies Replying to a linked IEA report with some random blog that didn't even agree with him anyway. Thinking that wasn't enough lies, he then falsely claimed again someone else was lying. He also attempted to lie about what his link said and tried to pretend he proved the other person was a liar. Quite a ballsy move, he must have been getting quite desperate.

Lastly to round out the week he went back to one of his longtime favourite lies. Claiming China is 80% coal.

So in summary, lies about beef, lies about electric vehicles, lies about air conditioning, lies about coal, and the standard "falsely calling everyone else a liar".

Will this be the new baseline for his level of lying or was this week just an outlier? Tune in next week to find out.

Sritty eyed yerrow bastards

[Anonymous Coward]

Sritty eyed yerrow bastards


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Didn't want to admit you were wrong?

[Anonymous Coward]

Didn't want to admit you were wrong?