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Italian Bioengineer Develops 3D-Printed Vegan Steak From Plant-Based Proteins (dezeen.com)

Italian bioengineer Giuseppe Scionti from Spanish startup Novameat has invented the "world's first" 3D-printed meat-free steak made from vegetable proteins, which mimics the texture of beef. From a report: Vegan ingredients such as rice, peas and seaweed, which provide the amino acids needed for a healthy diet, are turned into a food paste that is 3D-printed to form a raw, steak-like substance. Despite an abundance of meat-free products already on the market that taste similar to animal meats, Scionti found that these are limited to imitation burgers, chicken nuggets or meatballs. None of the offerings reproduce a piece of "fibrous flesh" such as steak or chicken breast. In an effort to reduce the impact of animal agriculture and to improve people's nutrition, the Milanese researcher set out to create a plant-based alternative to "fleshy" meat products.

297 comments

  1. It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 4, Informative

    if it isn't meat...

    1. Re:It isn't steak... by mermeid007 · · Score: 1

      ...then it violates the first of my dietary rules, of which there are at least a few. The most important one is don't serve novameat before the appetizers are out.

    2. Re:It isn't steak... by mermeid007 · · Score: 1

      and definitely don't order it at all if they try to give it to you before you even get through the front door.

    3. Re:It isn't steak... by Dunbal · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Why are vegans obsessed with making stuff that isn't meat into something they can call "meat". Surely a vegan is not interested in the appeal of something that sounds like meat, and a non vegan surely is not fooled into thinking that mushy brownish bean curd is a substitute for a nice, rare and bloody steak.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    4. Re:It isn't steak... by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 5, Informative
      Nope, we are not obsessed. Many vegans/vegetarians like me would not eat anything that looks like meat.

      It is the carnivores who think it is an advantage to make vegetables look and taste lime meat.

      --
      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    5. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      As Mandak said, it's not the vegans / vegetarians. We already know what good vegan / vegetarian food is. It's to convince the morons that think they need meat to try out alternatives.

    6. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You hit the nail on the head, in the sense that you admitted what I was going to claim. This is for vegans and vegetarians to try and spread their agenda to people who like meat. Me, I'm just going to eat meat.

    7. Re: It isn't steak... by slazzy · · Score: 1

      Agreed. For me there is a wonderful world of healthy and wonderful vegan food. Although I eat meat too sometimes.

      --
      Website Just Down For Me? Find out
    8. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Delicious lime meat.

    9. Re: It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Insightful

      No, it's a bunch of bullshit. If you don't like meat, don't eat it, that's fine by me. If you like it then eat it. I eat a lot of different foods, I don't NEED meat but I enjoy it, so I eat it.
      The purpose of fake meat comes from a desire to force others to stop eating real meat, and you can just fuck right off with that noise.

    10. Re: It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Funny

      What if carnivores would start producing fake beans out of meat? Would you feel offended?

    11. Re: It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Amen, Preach it Brother

    12. Re:It isn't steak... by jimbo · · Score: 2

      I eat meat most days. However I'll try and eat anything tasty and nutritious. I have loved travelling the planet and trying local dishes.
      While I love meat I'd be perfectly happy to eat my proteins in other ways as long as it satisfies above - whether it mimics meat or is its own thing, I'm happy either way. If keeping an open mind and having enjoyable food lowers my impact on the planet that's great. Our children or grandchildren might not get a choice.

      BTW, I often enjoy a A Beyond Meat burger from A&W, they're yummy, though I don't agree with adding beet juice to simulate myoglobin, it seems silly and it's gone after cooking it anyway.

    13. Re: It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Or you could simply be vegan for nutritional or ethical reasons yet enjoy the taste and texture of meat. Like, you know, th millions of people who do eat meat substitutes on a regular basis.

    14. Re: It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Man, the application of 3d printer technology could be directed towards a more noble cause. He is Italian; maybe a 3d printed Ferrari will, I don't know, make enough money so he can still print steaks suitable for expeditions to Mars

    15. Re:It isn't steak... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Interesting

      Why are vegans obsessed with making stuff that isn't meat into something they can call "meat"?

      Mostly, they aren't. Many vegans aren't interested in fake meat. It is more for non-vegans that crave meat but want a healthier, greener, more humane, or whatever, option.

      Most vegan "beef" is pretty bad, but fake chicken is pretty good.

    16. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I find it kind of ironic that it is usually vegans/vegetarians who are also a big part of the anti processed food crowd, yet have no qualms about hyper processed plant proteins made in to "fake meat". If super processed plant proteins extruded though a nozzle don't fit the definition of processed foods, then I don't know what does.

    17. Re: It isn't steak... by greenfruitsalad · · Score: 4, Interesting

      On the 1 hand, I love meat. On the other, I am aware of my cholesterol levels and other health issues. You come up with a good enough meat alternative (dripping juices, crispy edges, suitable for BBQ) and I'll tell you to "shut up and take my money".

    18. Re:It isn't steak... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      if it isn't meat...

      Ya. It's a "steak-like substance". (Says so in TFS)

      Probably tastes like "despair".

      [ from Better Off Ted, Season 1, Episode 2, "Heroes" ]

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    19. Re:It isn't steak... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Vegan's aren't interested, it's us meat eaters who are. I've tried some of these non-meat burgers and they are excellent. Environmental concerns aside, if I can eat something as delicious as that but more nutritious, lower calorie, doesn't require so much infrastructure to enforce animal welfare... Well it's a huge benefit to me.

      Between vegan steak and lab grown meat we could enter a new age of delicious meat products that are healthy to eat regularly and offer new culinary delights.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    20. Re:It isn't steak... by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      I've tried some of these non-meat burgers and they are excellent.

      Yes, but are they nutritious and healthy ? It's a highly processed food aimed at delivering maximum addictive flavor made from the cheapest ingredients.

    21. Re:It isn't steak... by mmphs · · Score: 2

      I don't eat meat because I don't like killing of animals, but I used to love the taste. If this crap tasted like the real steak, I would be first in line.

    22. Re:It isn't steak... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 3

      Well they ain't cheap, I'll tell you that much.

      In the longer term it should be possible to make them very good. Plant food is much cheaper than meat to start with, so there is plenty of margin to work with. There is a market for good food too, and of course we can regulate it to ensure that manufacturers don't get silly.

      Put it this way, it can't be any worse than Turkey Twizzlers.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    23. Re: It isn't steak... by Dunbal · · Score: 3, Informative

      I am aware of my cholesterol levels and other health issues.

      Exercise and weight control is going to help you a lot more than cutting meat out of your diet. Blaming meat (even red meat) is so 1990's. Get with the times. Oh and yes, I AM a doctor.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    24. Re:It isn't steak... by sad_ · · Score: 1

      it's for people who don't like the idea of not having meat on their plate every day. now they can still eat 'meat', and hope they will open up to the idea since the vega-meat isn't that bad at all.

      --
      On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
    25. Re:It isn't steak... by DNS-and-BIND · · Score: 0

      You don't represent everyone. Classic vegan virtue signalling though - "look how virtuous I am!"

      --
      Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
    26. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Face it jimbo: your dietary habits are of no relevance compared to the work of APK.

      APK dominates all of Slashdot. His power grows by the day. Serve him now, lest ye be on the wrong side of history!

      Promote his hosts file engine now! Bend a knee to APK!

      ALL HAIL APK

    27. Re: It isn't steak... by MrL0G1C · · Score: 4, Interesting

      You give no reason why conscientious meat eaters shouldn't try to create vegetable based meat alternatives. I eat meat and of course enjoy it, I also eat a couple of 'fake-meat' products that taste good but still aren't as tasty as the meat versions, as a meat eater I'd like them to create fake-meats that taste as good as the real thing, are more humane and are better for the environment.

      The clock is ticking for the human race and we're not doing much to slow it down, our species won't last long at this rate.

      --
      Waterfox - a Firefox fork with legacy extension support, security updates and better privacy by default.
    28. Re:It isn't steak... by Eloking · · Score: 1

      Mostly, they aren't. Many vegans aren't interested in fake meat. It is more for non-vegans that crave meat but want a healthier, greener, more humane, or whatever, option.

      Most vegan "beef" is pretty bad, but fake chicken is pretty good.

      Exactly,

      And I really wonder what's the objective of vegan with that sort of research. I mean, let's say they succeed to make a lab steak that's cheap and taste the real the thing. What's gonna happen?

      Sure, people will go with their pocket and, eventually, realeat will disappear.That sound great for the cow/pig/chicken, right?

      Except that they don't exist anymore. Nobody is gonna bread 100 million livestock for fun.

      --
      Elok
    29. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Back in the '90s I had a punker-vegetarian friend who invited me to a vegetarian restaurant with her. She ordered some chili, which had soy fake-hamburger in it.

      She was so disgusted by the mere idea of meat in her food, she sent it back after a couple bites and ordered something else!

    30. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey vegans please do not eat food of my food, it is inhumane and it upsets me.

    31. Re:It isn't steak... by Type44Q · · Score: 4, Insightful
      The word "meats" and "steak" aren't specific the way the word "beef" is:

      think nutmeats and tuna steaks.

    32. Re: It isn't steak... by cyber-vandal · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Or it could just be that that person likes the taste of meat but not the harming of animals and don't actually have any interest in what other people do. People who don't eat meat don't force anything on you, I really don't understand these tantrums from meat eaters about us.

    33. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      This is the ones trying to find ways to convert the people who eat a regular omnivorous diet. This sort of behavior is what makes vegans so damn annoying because they try to ruin eating for the rest of us while most vegetarians fly under the radar these days as they mostly keep to themselves.

    34. Re: It isn't steak... by MightyYar · · Score: 4, Interesting

      I'm an unrepentant carnivore, but if you gave me something where the cost and flavor was about the same but it came without the need for animal husbandry and the associated environmental effects, I'd be very open-minded.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    35. Re:It isn't steak... by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      I love that episode.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    36. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Especially since they're not. They drove the price of quinoa up to the point where the peoples in the Andes could no longer afford it. Now actual people are malnourished and dying from it so a vegan doesn't have to eat a cow.

    37. Re:It isn't steak... by fahrbot-bot · · Score: 1

      I have both seasons on DVD. Still funny every time I watch it through.

      --
      It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
    38. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Your parent replied to a "totality projection". The "we are not obsessed" is true if one person (your parent) doesn't fit the GP's "totality".

      Learn to follow threads.

    39. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your parent replied to a "represent everyone" scenario (e.g. "why are vegans...". The "we are not obsessed" from your parent is correct if one person (your parent) doesn't fit the GP's "why are vegans...".

      Learn to follow threads.

    40. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Most vegans would rather kill off all livestock than breed them, because they regard it as more humane. I'm a meat eater, but I can't say I disagree; especially factory farms are quite atrocious. If we manage to make equally good "meat" without raising animals, sign me up for the genocide of farm animals.

    41. Re:It isn't steak... by drewlake2000 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps they like the food, but don't want anything to die before they eat it, just as simple as that. Perhaps they are vegan for health reasons and don't want to stand out or explain their condition. Just think for a second and I'm sure more will occur to you. Why are you obsessed about what other people want to eat?

    42. Re:It isn't steak... by drewlake2000 · · Score: 2

      Because "sausage" is a naturally occurring meat?

    43. Re: It isn't steak... by drewlake2000 · · Score: 1

      Perhaps it's not about you.

    44. Re: It isn't steak... by drewlake2000 · · Score: 1

      No, fill your boots.

    45. Re:It isn't steak... by drewlake2000 · · Score: 1

      You do know it's not about maximising the number of animals don't you? If Friesians die out never to be seen again fine. The problem is the ethics of causing pain and suffering for something that isn't needed.

    46. Re:It isn't steak... by Eloking · · Score: 1

      You do know it's not about maximising the number of animals don't you? If Friesians die out never to be seen again fine. The problem is the ethics of causing pain and suffering for something that isn't needed.

      Well, if we blindly follow that logic, we should wipe out every species on earth. Nature isn't like Bambi's movie where every animal lives in harmony, it's a constant struggle for survival. We should level the whole planned and lives on plants grown in a lab.

      --
      Elok
    47. Re: It isn't steak... by Mirvnillith · · Score: 1

      Have you tried Oumph (https://oumph.uk/)?

    48. Re: It isn't steak... by Mirvnillith · · Score: 1

      I donâ(TM)t think that many Vegans buy from those aisles.

    49. Re:It isn't steak... by hawkfish · · Score: 1

      Vegan's aren't interested, it's us meat eaters who are. I've tried some of these non-meat burgers and they are excellent. Environmental concerns aside, if I can eat something as delicious as that but more nutritious, lower calorie, doesn't require so much infrastructure to enforce animal welfare... Well it's a huge benefit to me.

      Between vegan steak and lab grown meat we could enter a new age of delicious meat products that are healthy to eat regularly and offer new culinary delights.

      This.

      My teenage son is recently vegan and I'm trying to meat him halfway as it were. Along the way I've found that I actually prefer some of the new vegan burgers like the Beyond Burger to real meat. (The Impossible Burger is too greasy IMHO.) He likes them too, because before he became vegan, he was mostly constructed of bacon and hamburgers.

      Despite what some vegan fanatics will try to do to the archeological record, humans have been omnivorous for our entire history, This means that we have accumulated thousands of years of cultural history around cooking and the kinds of foods we prepare. This are ingenious, nutritious, tasty and familiar to most people. Vegans are trying, but honestly most vegan recipes I investigate are made by people who seem to have no understanding of food chemistry. The best vegan baked goods recipes I find are either by non-vegans (e.g. a nice one hour cinnamon roll recipe I found by an non-vegan baker) or by people who tried a whole range of alternative ingredients in a scientific manner (lately I've been making a blueberry muffin recipe my wife found that is very good - and which lists the tradeoffs of the various nut-based yoghurts and milks involved). Other stuff I found (e.g. pancakes...) I had to hack up to make them not turn into hockey pucks, and they are still protein deficient compared to egg-based ones.

      So part of the reason for these kinds of "fake animal products" is that there is a rich tradition of making an incredible variety of foodstuffs from real animal products. Vegans can try to start over, but they have about 12,000 years of culinary history to catch up on. Fakery like this is really just trying to take advantage of this rich history - which is also a good thing for promoting Veganism to those who aren't into wearing hair shirts.

      --
      You will not drink with us, but you would taste our steel? - Walter Matthau, The Pirates
    50. Re:It isn't steak... by mad7777 · · Score: 1

      Because some of us humans actually do love meat, but, due to our pesky conscience, we choose not to eat it. It would be wonderful to have a credible substitute, and it feels like the products on the market are getting really close now, if not already there. The A&W Beyond Burger, for example, is an extraordinary accomplishment, nearly indistinguishable from the "real thing".

      --
      Might makes right irrelevant.
    51. Re:It isn't steak... by mspohr · · Score: 1

      Most vegans aren't interested in eating anything that looks like meat. I think people are making these imitation steaks, etc. for non-vegans who want to avoid unhealthy meat fat and chemicals and environmental damage.

      --
      I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
    52. Re: It isn't steak... by robkeeney · · Score: 1

      Proper animal husbandry is far, far better for the environment than the industrial land rape that is the modern grain agriculture required to make fake meat. Pasture land is so much healthier than corn/bean fields.

    53. Re: It isn't steak... by robkeeney · · Score: 1

      You might want to check out https://cholesterolcode.com/ if you're still suffering from the mistaken belief that the cholesterol you get from eating meat or eggs has any sort of negative effect on your health. High cholesterol levels are strongly associated with longevity.

    54. Re: It isn't steak... by greenfruitsalad · · Score: 1

      Thou assumeth too much. I am neither fat, nor inactive. I am able to keep cholesterol at manageable levels by daily swimming and my wife's healthy cooking. (i make sure i don't eat more calories than i expend) However, this has turned swimming/cycling into a chore and most meals into a joyless necessity. If I could have the pleasure of juicy meats without the calories, I'd pay premium for it.

    55. Re:It isn't steak... by Scarletdown · · Score: 0

      It has been said that the fastest way to a man's heart is through his stomach, unless he is a vegan; then it is through his vagina.

      But then again, I always thought no matter what, the fastest way was through the rib cage.

      --
      This space unintentionally left blank.
    56. Re: It isn't steak... by robkeeney · · Score: 1

      99% of vegans give the other 1% a bad name. Be honest, most vegans are on a religious crusade to get people to stop committing the sin of killing animals for food. They first come to veganism from an ethical belief that it is immoral to kill animals and any health effects are secondary. I've seen countless fundamentalist Christians try to bend science to support things like literal 6-day creationism, so it's easy to recognize when vegans do the same.

    57. Re: It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That fails basic economics. If the products in those aisles didn't sell, they wouldn't be in the store. But the prices for faux meat products are quite high in comparison to vegan dietary staples, the rice and peas and beans which the fake meat is made from. With the higher prices, there is little incentive for non-vegans to buy those items. So if the items are selling, the most likely customers are vegans (and aspiring vegans).

    58. Re: It isn't steak... by The-Ixian · · Score: 1

      I am pretty sure the point of those frozen faux "meats" is to allow an easy transition for those who would like to experiment with vegetarianism.

      --
      My eyes reflect the stars and a smile lights up my face.
    59. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You appear to have missed the, "causing pain and suffering for something that isn't needed", part.

    60. Re: It isn't steak... by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Animal husbandry requires massive amounts of grain agriculture. If it was all pasture land, sure, you might have a valid point. But livestock are typically fattened on soybean and corn based feed. More of the corn grown in the US is used to feed animals than is used to feed humans.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    61. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Curious how casting a male into the other gender is an insult. All it implies is that you must think lowly of women in and have masculinity issues.

    62. Re: It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh and yes, I AM a doctor.

      Apparently not a very good one. Over 400 metabolic ward studies have shown dietary cholesterol raises serum cholesterol.

      Sounds like you listened to 00s and 10s Keto "blog science" and Dairy/Meat industry science rather than solid stuff.

    63. Re: It isn't steak... by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      No, we don't have that product in the US.

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    64. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The main vegan aisle is the produce section.

      Then comes the pasta, cereal, frozen veggies and other dried goods (like rice) section.

      It's hard to recognize, I'm sure. The "vegan" section is generally considered to be processed junk food. And people obsessed with processed junk foods isn't limited to vegans.

    65. Re: It isn't steak... by robkeeney · · Score: 1

      No, it doesn't require that. Just because much meat is grown via feedlot currently, doesn't mean that's how it has to be done, let alone that it's the best way. Having people eat corn and beans directly instead of having cattle turn the corn and beans into meat first, does not remove the industrial land rape that is modern grain agriculture. Raising corn and beans is an environmental nightmare.

    66. Re:It isn't steak... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I've tried some of these non-meat burgers and they are excellent.

      Can you name some brands to consider trying? And maybe what you're comparing them to? I have some vegan friends and every attempt at a dinner party has often resulted in something that compares favourably only to a Mcdonalds meat patty and to be honest I'm not sure there's any meat in that either.

      I keep hearing about good tasting alternatives, but I've yet to actually experience any.

    67. Re:It isn't steak... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Yes, but are they nutritious and healthy ? It's a highly processed food

      Meaning what? Define processing. There are plenty of healthy processed foods. There are plenty of processed foods loaded with everything bad for you.
      What is processing? Do I need to reconstitute something? Do I need to grind down offal and sell it as meat? Do canned fruits count? They are processed. What about wine, most of that contains additive 220 so you can consider that "processed" too for a certain definition.

      I hate hearing the term "processed food".

    68. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If your entire existence was this, maybe nonexistence wouldn't be so bad. And don't give me your typical apologist bullshit, this is what industrialized meat production looks like.

      And there isn't going to be 100M livestock just for fun, that would be the point. There will be some, just a lot less, and room for other biodiversity instead of homogenous farm animals is the point. And less pollution overall.

      Your entire line of logic is retarded, bar none.

    69. Re: It isn't steak... by Dunbal · · Score: 1
      Actually an excellent one. There's no point in insisting patients comply with a lifestyle they are absolutely not going to comply with. That's something they don't print in medical texts.Perhaps you should re-read what I wrote:

      Exercise and weight control is going to help you a lot more than cutting meat out of your diet.

      Pick a lifestyle change to work on. Guess which one is more realistic.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    70. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Protein deficient muffins? Wtf?

      Please list some cases of protein defiency that wasn't outright starvation in the past year.

      Much of the rest of your post was just gobbedly gook.

    71. Re: It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am aware of my cholesterol levels and other health issues.

      Exercise and weight control is going to help you a lot more than cutting meat out of your diet. Blaming meat (even red meat) is so 1990's. Get with the times. Oh and yes, I AM a doctor.

      A doctor of what?

      Cholesterol comes from animal cells. Other than taking medication, there is no better way to control cholesterol levels than changing your diet to exclude animal cells.

      Exercise does have health benefits, but weight control is not one of them. As the article says, you cannot outrun a bad diet. If you want to lose weight, you have to manage the number AND type of calories that you put into your body.

    72. Re:It isn't steak... by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Beyond Burger was good.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    73. Re: It isn't steak... by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      No, it doesn't require that

      Right, but grain agriculture doesn't "require" what you are saying either. Yes, raising corn and beans is an environmental nightmare, but more corn is raised for animal feed than for human consumption. More soybeans are fed to animals than to humans. Yes, you can mandate that animals are pasture-fed only. But you can also mandate sustainable grain and legume production. Both scenarios are purely hypothetical at the moment.

      While you are working on that, we could significantly reduce grain and soybean production simply by reducing our reliance on animal husbandry. That is a direct result that is not hypothetical in any way. If you personally adopt a vegan diet, you personally are reducing the need for the production of soybeans and corn. Either that or you simply make the price of meat a bit cheaper so that someone else can now afford it. :)

      --
      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    74. Re: It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In order to justify the shelf space in the store, there MUST be a consistent consumer group for those products. It is absurd to speculate on the motivations of that group, and the notion that the group is primarily made of people who are just trying a vegan diet to see if they like it is based on no evidence. You might as well look at the "ethnic" foods section and conclude that the reason why they have matzo ball soup and jarred gefilte fish is because a lot of people are curious about Judaism and want to see if they like it.

    75. Re: It isn't steak... by robkeeney · · Score: 1

      Your understanding of modern agriculture and economics is severely lacking. Very much beef is raised on land that simply cannot be used for any type of human consumable vegetable crop, be it corn, beans, lettuce, tomatoes, whatever. You simply cannot get a human consumable crop from it. There is no such thing as ecologically sustainable grain and legume production-- anything that could remotely be considered sustainable cannot be done at a profit. Without the artificial fertilizer, herbicide, and pesticide input into huge cleared monocropped fields farmed with huge machines, you simply cannot turn a profit. You'd get a better profit by grazing cattle on it. N.B. tomato, lettuce, melons, etc. are all hardly better than corn, beans, and wheat for the environment. It's all monocropping with large amounts of artificial chemical inputs.

      I will never go vegetarian, let alone vegan. I will not destroy my health and well-being by adopting a diet which flies in the face several million years of human evolution. No, the best way to significantly reduce grain and soybean production is to end the market interference from government subsidies for them.

    76. Re:It isn't steak... by Falconnan · · Score: 1

      You spelled "omnivore" wrong.

      To the average human palate, meat tastes good. Our entire physiology is adapted to accept meat as nutrition. The ethical arguments against cruelty are the strongest vegans have, and I generally agree with them. However, a lot of animals are killed to allow our crops to grow, so that argument is not absolute. However, matching a lot of the nutritional profile to meats is useful. If you can make a vegetable based thing that actually tastes like meat, has the texture, etc., I'll happily transition my diet. But no one has made it (I can tell the difference with nigh 100% accuracy still). And it doesn't taste or feel good to me. Our survival pre-civilization was augmented by meat. Hell, chimps hunt for meat. This is part of our general nature.

      Lab grown meat avoids the vast majority of ethical considerations, but isn't quite ready for prime time. If you go veg for your reasons, I respect that. I despise the factory farming system, too. But the concentrated nutrition in meat is something we evolved to crave to a degree. That some people reject it is to be expected. But for those of us who can't quite do that, give us a desirable alternative.

    77. Re:It isn't steak... by Scarletdown · · Score: 0

      It was a fucking joke. Get over yourself, kid.

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    78. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      How many rodents must die for your corn on the cob?

    79. Re: It isn't steak... by cyber-vandal · · Score: 1

      The noisy ones aren't the majority and even if they were, they're not forcing anyone to do anything.

    80. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is no such thing as a human "general nature".

      What about the environmental arguments? How can I respect your "reasons" to be an omnivore if your diet is a threat to the environment?

    81. Re: It isn't steak... by robkeeney · · Score: 1

      Loud, sometimes violent protests at restaurants, butcher shops, and meat packers are very much attempts to force everyone to do something. Vegans are insufferable and have no place among polite society.

    82. Re: It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I used to say thinks like "I will never go vegetarian". But some years later I actually did.

      Anyway, there will have to be reductions 'cause those artificial chemical inputs are gonna go scarce. Might as well reduce consumption at the individual level right now.

    83. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > It is the carnivores who think it is an advantage to make vegetables look and taste lime meat.

      You're only deluding yourself. I'm very much a carnivore, thank you very much, and I certainly don't think of any "vegetable that looks and tastes like meat" as any sort of "advantage".

      Those who think so, and pursue that research, are those who are *opposed* to meat consumption. They're are a lot closer to being in *your* camp than mine.

    84. Re: It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I am aware of my cholesterol levels and other health issues.

      Exercise and weight control is going to help you a lot more than cutting meat out of your diet. Blaming meat (even red meat) is so 1990's. Get with the times. Oh and yes, I AM a doctor.

      You are a doctor and still fantasize about people making responsible educated mature life choices about their health? Or anything else?

    85. Re: It isn't steak... by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      Your understanding of modern agriculture and economics is severely lacking.

      As is yours, or you are being deliberately deceptive.

      Very much beef is raised on land that simply cannot be used for any type of human consumable vegetable crop, be it corn, beans, lettuce, tomatoes, whatever.

      I don't see why this is germaine. I'm not talking about completely free-range cattle, I'm talking about the majority of meat which consumes more than half of the corn raised for food and the vast majority of soybeans. You are trying to make it sound like meat is raised in a sustainable way. Some is, most is not.

      anything that could remotely be considered sustainable cannot be done at a profit

      The exact same thing can be said of animal production. The sustainably raised meat is expensive.

      It's all monocropping with large amounts of artificial chemical inputs.

      And most of that monocropping goes into meat production.

      I will never go vegetarian, let alone vegan.

      Even if a cheap, delicious meat substitute were available? That sounds like an emotional rather than rational decision.

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      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    86. Re: It isn't steak... by robkeeney · · Score: 1

      My understanding of modern agriculture and economics is neither severely lacking nor deliberately deceptive. I live among it and participate in it every single day and I am painfully aware of the very harmful effects caused by the market distortion from government crop subsidies.

      Cheap and delicious is not healthy and nourishing. No meat substitute will have the nutritional profile of real meat, which is what the human body needs.

    87. Re:It isn't steak... by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      I'm non Vegan, and I'd be hypocritical if I said I was overly concerned about Animal welfare (if so, why not already be one? And why do I buy the cheapest eggs? etc), but...

      ...there are multiple good reasons for coming up with a manufactured "beef" steak. Aside from potential efficiencies if mass produced (cattle farming isn't), there's also the ability to make cuts of meat that do not exist in nature - filets with the full flavor of a strip steak, for example. You can basically make something with a custom texture and flavor, and forego strips of fat and other aspects of the real thing that do not add to the joy of eating a good steak.

      So, if they've got this right, or even if it's just early days, my hat off to them.

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      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    88. Re:It isn't steak... by hey! · · Score: 1

      Great; that means I can feed my vegetarian friends pulled pork.

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      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
    89. Re:It isn't steak... by nasch · · Score: 1

      Perhaps as a way to encourage more people to stop eating meat.

    90. Re: It isn't steak... by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      My understanding of modern agriculture and economics is neither severely lacking nor deliberately deceptive.

      Then why do you seem to deny that most corn and nearly all soybean production is to feed livestock? You seem to hate corn and soybean production. Fair enough. Most corn is grown for ethanol and meat, and something like 90% of soybeans go to animal feed. How can you deny that cutting meat production would also cut the production of these crops?

      No meat substitute will have the nutritional profile of real meat, which is what the human body needs.

      How can you make absolute statements about the future like this? How do reconcile the scientifically demonstrated health benefits of a vegetable-based diet with your belief in the healthful effects of a meat-based diet?

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      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    91. Re:It isn't steak... by VVRaven · · Score: 1

      Maybe you should take issue with capitalism then, and not veganism. Food is expensive in many places and the fact that it can be denied to people based on money is a travesty.

    92. Re:It isn't steak... by VVRaven · · Score: 1

      "virtue signalling" is one of the biggest none issues ever thought of.

    93. Re:It isn't steak... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 1

      Well, if we blindly follow that logic, we should wipe out every species on earth.

      As a general rule, doing things blindly is a bad idea.

      Disclaimer: This post is not intended to denigrate blind people in any way.

    94. Re: It isn't steak... by robkeeney · · Score: 1

      Because corn and soy production are NOT tied to actual market demands for them, but to government subsidies and price supports. Corn and soy are cheap enough to feed to cows, pigs, and chickens in massive quantities because the government heavily subsidizes their production. Industrial farms always raise lots of corn and soy because the government guarantees them an income for doing so; the actual market for them is a secondary concern. If all animal agriculture disappeared to today, corn and bean production would hardly drop a whit.

      "scientifically demonstrated health benefits of a vegetable-based diet" Have you actually read any of these studies that appear to demonstrate this? I have and they're universally horse shit. They *never* compare all cause mortality-- Oh boy, the plant-based-diet rats didn't get cancer at as high a rate, never mind that more than half of them died before study completion, while all of the animal-based-diet rats lived to the end of study. They also tend to compare vegetable-only diets to the standard American diet, full of Coke, cheesy-poofs, pop-tarts, and pizza. They NEVER compare to a meat-only diet.

      You should investigate the history of those who promote a vegetable-based-diet, the Kelloggs especially. John Kellogg (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Harvey_Kellogg), an SDA, believed that sex was dirty and sinful, and that a plant-based diet would help suppress sexual appetite. Are you really comfortable taking diet advice from the Seventh Day Adventist prophetess and her visions? All of the science purporting to show that plant-based diets are healthier are driven by ethically and religiously motivated vegans and vegetarians. The science purporting to show a plant-based diet is healthier is LITERALLY the same as using science to prove a literal 6-day creation.

      Conversely, humans have a digestive tract most similar to canine digestive tracts along with extensive co-evolution with dogs. There are no necessary vitamins, minerals, or other nutrients that humans can't get from meat, but there is at least one that cannot be gotten from any plant. Because of vitamin B12, we are obligate carnivores-- there are simply no natural dietary sources of B12 sufficient for humans other than meat. The only dietary energy source sufficient to allow the human brain to evolve to its size is meat and fat from animals.

    95. Re: It isn't steak... by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      If all animal agriculture disappeared to today, corn and bean production would hardly drop a whit.

      This assumes that government incentives would not change. I think that is a faulty assumption. While I do recognize that the farm lobby is powerful, there is only so much excess production that they can justify. It's easy to justify an overproduction so that even a severely bad year does not lead to a food shortage - it's not so easy to justify double that again. Soybean production in particular is 90% dedicated to animals and would be very hard to direct elsewhere.

      I have and they're universally horse shit.

      The vast majority of nutritional studies are indeed horseshit. But there have been some pretty solid studies which point to a benefit of a plant-based diet.
      Dietary fiber intake is inversely correlated to colorectal cancer
      Red meat is correlated to colorectal cancer (but not poultry, and fish is inversely correlated)
      EPIC also has yielded studies showing a correlation between dairy intake and prostate cancer, as well as saturated fat and breast cancer.

      You should investigate the history of those who promote a vegetable-based-diet

      Yes, there have been many charlatans. But let's stick with science and avoid the temptation to use ad hominems.

      Because of vitamin B12, we are obligate carnivores-- there are simply no natural dietary sources of B12 sufficient for humans other than meat

      Agreed, but we are also a lot smarter than dogs. If we can get B12 from an artificial source, I have no justification to reject that. You CAN live a healthy lifestyle today without any animal products whatsoever. It takes a lot of tenacity and - I agree with you - it's not the natural state of things. But the fact that it is possible shows that, in the future, it should be possible to do so with a lot less effort. Few of us live in anything like our "natural" state, except for a handful of miserable subsistence tribes living in Savannah-like conditions.

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      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    96. Re:It isn't steak... by 140Mandak262Jamuna · · Score: 1

      Usually it is the juveniles who make fucking jokes. Most likely you are the kid.

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      sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
    97. Re:It isn't steak... by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

      The only ones that come to mind at the moment are the one that has the line, "On the way home, we got a flat tire. She jacked; I pumped. She jacked; I pumped. Then we got out and fixed the tire." as well as the tale of Johnny Fuckerfaster (which always seemed to fall apart at the end. Anyone know what the full ending of that one was supposed to be?).

      Now surely no modern kid would have known either of those. Right?

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    98. Re: It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This assumes that government incentives would not change.

      The US government is still subsidizing wool production from WW2. They've dumped grain into the ocean. Don't be so naive

      From your study links, Participants completed a dietary questionnaire Dietary questionnaires are horse shit aka hearsay anecdotes: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fnut.2018.00105/full and BOTH again compare health conscious plant-based diets against beet and pretzels, pizza, coke and donuts diets.

      There's no ad hominem in pointing out the conflict of interest in those who push a plant-based diet. You believe in "creation science". There's no two ways about it.

      And no, you cannot live a healthy life without meat. You can survive, but you won't be healthy: https://chriskresser.com/why-you-should-think-twice-about-vegetarian-and-vegan-diets/

    99. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Curious how casting a male into the other gender is an insult. All it implies is that you must think lowly of women in and have masculinity issues.

      Yes, that is correct. The most straightforward way to question a man's masculinity is to call him a woman (or liken him to one).

      I am guessing that bothers you. It's supposed to.

    100. Re:It isn't steak... by Tony+Isaac · · Score: 1

      I think you missed the point.

      If vegans aren't interested in eating anything that looks like meat,
      and if meat-eaters aren't interested in eating anything that looks like meat (but isn't)...

      Then WHO is left? Who exactly is it that wants this faux-meat?

    101. Re:It isn't steak... by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      Look at all the offended vegan SJWs modding me down. Silly girls, I have Karma to burn.

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      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    102. Re:It isn't steak... by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

      Sausage is a meat product made of meat, like meat loaf.

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      There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
    103. Re: It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yes, you can mandate that animals are pasture-fed only. But you can also mandate sustainable grain and legume production. Both scenarios are purely hypothetical at the moment.

      Yes, purely hypothetical. And so is mandating veganism.

      I have nothing against others going vegan - for their health or any other reason. But some try to recruit by appealing to ethics. They portray themselves as "better" somehow. And they are the reason I eat a little more meat than I actually want to. In order to make up for whatever effect such people have on society, environment and so on.

    104. Re: It isn't steak... by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      The US government is still subsidizing wool production from WW2.

      Yes, but it's a $5 million subsidy. That barely registers on anyone's radar against the $16 billion in overall agricultural subsidies. The farm bill comes up every 5 years or so. Usually it's pretty stable, but there definitely is incremental change each time. Regardless, this is a red herring - we can't refuse to make any changes simply because we think the government is too corrupt. A much larger obstacle to my argument is the fact that no competitive, tasty, and nutritious meat substitute currently exists!

      questionnaires are horse shit

      Perhaps, but I fail to see studies supporting your assertions about the health of a meat-based diet. I'm quite aware that the studies I pointed to are merely correlation studies.

      pointing out the conflict of interest in those who push a plant-based diet.

      It's just not an interesting argument. You brought up people from over 100 years ago. Meanwhile, there are actual scientific papers to discuss - and to your credit you've done just that.

      But let's not get too hung up on health claims... obviously an unapologetic carnivore such as myself does not find them significant enough to act upon. Your paper says:

      Thus, we posit that while dietary intake is an obvious and essential component of health, it is a trivial risk factor for obesity, metabolic, and chronic diseases (15, 55, 73, 113, 114). Our position is rapidly acquiring support given the “tiny” effect sizes and “massive confounding” inherent in nutrition research (61, 138–140). For example, when compared to the relative risk estimates of smoking tobacco, estimates for dietary factors are an order of magnitude smaller (140). In fact, these estimates are so trivial, “crude and imprecise” that most diet-disease associations may be considered spurious (141). As such, we posit that measuring “diet” per se is tangential if not irrelevant to the major public health issues faced by industrialized nations (113, 114).

      I pretty much agree with that - it does not matter much whether I eat a meat or a plant-based diet, so if fake meat is better for the environment, tastes the same, and provides plenty of protein - what do I care?

      You can survive, but you won't be healthy: https://chriskresser.com/why-y...

      I hope that you can re-read that article and see what utter pseudo-scientific BS it is. Vegans are well aware of the dangers of B12 deficiency, and they take supplements to compensate. Whether the B12 was made in the gut of an animal or in a lab, the human body does not care. Vegetarians get plenty of B12 from dairy and eggs. For someone like me who doesn't have an ideological reason to avoid meat, I'm highly confident that I'd still have plenty of B12 in my diet even if McDonalds switched to vegetable-based "meat" patties. Some of his links are hilarious since they directly contradict other parts of his paper. He actually links to this abstract, which supports his claim that vegans "often" suffer malnourishment (as opposed to cheeto-eating omnivores?) but directly contradicts some of his other stuff:

      Vegetarians exhibit a wide diversity of dietary practices, often described by what is omitted from their diet. When a vegetarian diet is appropriately planned and includes fortified foods, it can be nutritionally adequate for adults and children and can promote health and lower the risk of major chronic diseases. The nutrients of concern in the diet of vegetarians include vitamin B(12), vitamin D, -3 fatty acids, calcium, iron, and zinc. Although a vegetarian diet can meet current recommendations for all of these nutrients, the use of supplements and fortified foods provides a useful shield against defi

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      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    105. Re: It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      High cholesterol levels are strongly associated with longevity.

      I know. It is ironic, seeing people harming themselves by lowering their cholesterol. Some even take pills in order to harm themselves this way.

    106. Re: It isn't steak... by strikethree · · Score: 1

      I'm an unrepentant carnivore, but if you gave me something where the cost and flavor was about the same but it came without the need for animal husbandry and the associated environmental effects, I'd be very open-minded.

      I could get behind this, but I would take it a step further: Just offer Bachelor Chow. :)

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    107. Re:It isn't steak... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Thanks will see if it's available locally.

    108. Re:It isn't steak... by hawkfish · · Score: 1

      Protein deficient muffins? Wtf?

      Pancakes, not muffins. If you bothered to read my post without all that froth coming out of your mouth, you might have figured that out.

      Please list some cases of protein defiency that wasn't outright starvation in the past year.

      If you were trying to raise children, one of whom has sensory issues, you would not be so dismissive. (Protip: it's "deficiency")

      Much of the rest of your post was just gobbedly gook.

      And we have spelling error number two. For someone complaining about my incoherence, maybe you should look in a mirror. Not to mention doing a little adversarial research on your own position...

      --
      You will not drink with us, but you would taste our steel? - Walter Matthau, The Pirates
    109. Re: It isn't steak... by MightyYar · · Score: 1

      And so is mandating veganism.

      Wha? I'm not suggesting such a thing. I'm simply saying that I'd consider buying "fake steak" if it tasted the same and had a similar price. I'm generally not buying steak for health reasons, but definitely there are bonus points if the fake steak has a nutrition profile on-par with real steak.

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      W..w..W - Willy Waterloo washes Warren Wiggins who is washing Waldo Woo.
    110. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yawn... Hmm?... Oh sorry dell asleep there due to the tedious comment, unfortunately I also slaughtered some microbes apparently. Would you like to know how I would behave on a desert island with only a pig and human corpses?

      https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2018/nov/15/why-theres-no-such-thing-as-a-perfect-vegan

    111. Re:It isn't steak... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If animals eat animals, and animals eat humans, and humans are animals, why shouldn't humans eat animals? (Or other humans, for that matter?)

      The core problem with veganism is that it attempts to apply human ethics in a domain where they clearly have no meaning.

  2. BTDT. by msauve · · Score: 1

    This is just Animal 57.

    (Soylent Green is people!)

    --
    "National Security is the chief cause of national insecurity." - Celine's First Law
  3. 3D printed? by 50000BTU_barbecue · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Really? If a paste going through a nozzle counts as "3D printed", every tube of Cake Mate needs a new label.

    Seriously, I thought 3D printing hype died down years ago?

    If you'll excuse me, I have to go 3D print some paste on my toothbrush before I go to bed...

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    Mostly random stuff.
    1. Re:3D printed? by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Really? If a paste going through a nozzle counts as "3D printed"

      No, it's but everything being made in it's entirety from a robot controlled extruded is pretty much going to be labeled "3d printed". The correct term is additive manufacturing. Feel free to flip a table or two because it's not going away.

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      Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    2. Re:3D printed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope, the hype is still going. Here's an example -> https://reason.com/archives/2018/11/29/when-governments-restrict-guns-people-ma

      "3D manufacturing will not render current international and national controls on firearms obsolete," the report's authors say. "It may, however, make applying these controls more difficult, in effect posing new law enforcement challenges. As additive manufacturing technologies continue to improve and become more readily available to private individuals, it will become increasingly difficult to enforce regulations on firearms manufacturing."

      So, making gun laws impossible to enforce is somehow different than making such laws obsolete? That's a distinction without a difference in my mind.

      Sleep well once you've finished with your 3D printed toothpaste, it's quite possible that in the morning all gun laws will be meaningless.

    3. Re:3D printed? by Libro · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I know this is slashdot, but that's an absurd rant. The machine in the article looks very similar to the 3d printer on my desk. It just extrudes a different material to the plastic mine extrudes. Why the problem with the term 3d printed ? It's a perfectly useful term with a clear meaning, which in my view is used quite suitably in this context. Some here say the "correct" term is additive manufacturing - well I'd say that's just an alternative term. There's nothing incorrect about calling something 3d printing if it's coming from a machine that extrudes a material to create three dimensional objects layer by layer. And it's not a hype. It's an extremely useful technology that is now becoming cheap enough to be available domestically. It's like calling smartphones a hype ten years ago. Or the internet. Is that a hype ? I genuinely believe that all of these new and innovative applications of 3d printing, particularly with new kinds of materials, like in this article, are examples of they way manufacturing is being turned on its head. Extraordinary things are happening, and I for one am really interested in reading about them.

    4. Re: 3D printed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Awesome. This means my grandma has been "3D printing" cakes since the 50s.

    5. Re:3D printed? by Dunbal · · Score: 0, Troll

      I thought 3D printing hype died down years ago?

      Vegans are just discovering it. They're a bit slow, they've been too busy telling everyone how they're vegan, and how wonderful life is since they decided to become vegan.

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      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    6. Re: 3D printed? by Dunbal · · Score: 0

      Soft serv ice-cream is ancient 3-d printing - who knew! Need to the put the price of the ice cream up.

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      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    7. Re:3D printed? by LiquidAvatar · · Score: 2

      Make sure to wash your hands after you 3d print into the toilet, too.

      --
      It is difficult to free fools from the chains they revere.
      -Voltaire
    8. Re:3D printed? by quenda · · Score: 4, Funny

      3D printed steaks have been around for years.
      The question is if this new method using vegetable proteins is any improvement over polyamide or ABS. Double-blind taste tests have been inconclusive.

    9. Re:3D printed? by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 4, Informative

      The problem with faux meat is replicating the structure and the fat distribution. Textured protein does an okay job at the filamentous part, but can't distribute fat through the produced chunks. Also the chunks are limited in size.

      With fused deposition modeling (ie. 3d printing) you can replicate that structure to some extent and distribute fat throughout, in far larger chunks than can be produced by textured protein extrusion.

    10. Re:3D printed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://pics.me.me/frantically-waving-hands-and-chasing-down-ice-cream-truck-hey-2438081.png

    11. Re:3D printed? by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      The "printed" part refers to arranging the extruded material in a specific pattern under computer numerical control (CNC). As opposed you the uncontrolled shape of toothpaste that you extrude by hand.

      This has in fact been around for a while in the food industry, e.g. confections with CNC printed decorations.

      --
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      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    12. Re:3D printed? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I just 3D printed your wife.

    13. Re:3D printed? by hey! · · Score: 1

      "Cake Mate" is icing for cake decoration. If the way you are using it can be characterized as "3D printing" I'd say you're using rather more of it than most people would.

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      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  4. Re: It isn't gay sex... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...if the partipants aren't gay

  5. I wouldn't eat this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I only eat my food when it's alive. I don't even like eating gagh if they're not moving much.

    1. Re:I wouldn't eat this by mermeid007 · · Score: 1

      If this is what I think it is (we call it meat impersonation back home) I know the reviews would be negative. Or is it something else?

    2. Re: I wouldn't eat this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      By gagh, I assume you mean hairy balls?

    3. Re:I wouldn't eat this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Turn in your nerd card.

    4. Re:I wouldn't eat this by Q-Hack! · · Score: 1

      Turn in your nerd card.

      Wouldn't that be Turn in your Geek card? Nerds tend to be less interested in DS-9 trivia.

      --
      Some days I get the sinking feeling Orwell was an optimist.
    5. Re:I wouldn't eat this by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Turn in your geek card yourself. Gagh isn't specific to ST:DS9.

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      #DeleteFacebook
    6. Re: I wouldn't eat this by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Nope, those are called tribbles.

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      #DeleteFacebook
    7. Re:I wouldn't eat this by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you're right. But we can definitely agree that arguing the distinction between geeks and nerds makes us both dorks.

  6. Re: It is vegan steak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The participants are gay and also thoroughly enjoy tube steak.

  7. Look at me! by Tokolosh · · Score: 1

    I invented a process to turn ribeye steak into tofu.

    Why is this not a thing, I wonder?

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    Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    1. Re:Look at me! by quenda · · Score: 1

      I have a better machine for turning vegetable protein into ribeye steak:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      And given the cattle produce lots of meat, and only a small amount of ribeye, it would make sense to start making fake steaks with ground beef instead of tofu.

    2. Re:Look at me! by Scarletdown · · Score: 1

      I don't think you can patent the process of taking a dump.

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  8. I don't get vegans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0, Troll

    Seriously I don't understand the vegan mindset, well the one's that want to eat things that 'resemble' meat. I mean it seems to me that they're saying they don't agree with eating meat bc murder, but they're happy to eat something that looks like the result of murder. WTF?

    1. Re: I don't get vegans by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      You're only "trying" to understand so you can fail. You're quite the intellectual heavyweight, obviously.

    2. Re:I don't get vegans by Brett+Buck · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you try to apply logical and rational thought to a vegan die-hard, you are going to be really disappointed.

    3. Re: I don't get vegans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the idea is to present a wider variety of plant based, protein rich foods thereby making eating less or no meat more attractive to more people, e.g. I'm not even vegetarian but I've tried both vegan and meat haggis: By far, I prefer the vegan one. Plant based foods use up far less resources than animal based ones so every plant based food that is successful means greater efficiency in food production and lower environmental impact.

    4. Re:I don't get vegans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Inside every vegan is meat eater trying to get out.

    5. Re:I don't get vegans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

      Some people, like myself, are omnivores who know animals - sentients - suffer and die so I can have a meal. I don't like that, so I started minimizing my meat-eating. I love meat however. So if someone could give me something that tastes exactly like meat, I'd devour it.

      As far as vegans (no dairy or eggs): the egg industry keep chickens in battery cages. If you understand what the battery hens endure, and you're smart enough to care, then you might try to avoid battery eggs. But that's easy to do because there are lots of cage free eggs out there nowadays. Dairy...? Veal comes out of the dairy industry, and the calves are separated from their mothers way early. Veal is a brutal industry. When the Millenium comes, I imagine veal farmers will be hanging outside their empty barns. I don't have the force of will to avoid dairy though, though I should IMO. Eggs I only eat the non-battery kind. Meat... like I say, if they can give me a suffering-free alternative, I'm all over it.

      Not everyone cares. Most don't I suppose. Gotta have the intellectual firepower to think about this stuff, be able to model the existence of other sentients. Hyena doesn't care about what the wildebeest thinks. Nature is in fact brutal. But if I can avoid being brutal, I'll do it because I like to reduce the level of suffering on the planet.

    6. Re:I don't get vegans by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      I think they believe that if they can come up with a substitute that doesn't make everyone instantly gag, then they can call us all terrorists for "choosing" to eat animals when there's "an alternative".

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    7. Re:I don't get vegans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It isn't a matter of logic, it is a matter of values.

      "Logic" takes you from premises to conclusions, you see, but our values are where we get our premises from.

      But of course you knew that. You are just flinging poo.

      Many vegans value the lives of animals more than you do. That's it. There is nothing intrinsically logical or illogical about it.

      I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that maybe you think something like....humans are omnivores and therefore it is illogical to abstain from eating meat. Aside from the obvious huge leap, I will point out that being an omnivore means an all-plant diet is an option. If humans were only carnivores, that would be a different story. But we aren't. So this is a simple matter of people choosing within the options that their genetics provide.

    8. Re:I don't get vegans by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      Even in the animal kingdom this is true.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    9. Re:I don't get vegans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Brett Buttfuck tries to apply logical and rational thought to vegans all the time. You can tell he's legit.

    10. Re:I don't get vegans by guruevi · · Score: 1

      Perhaps you should go look at some human biological evolution or some animal evolution for that matter. Omnivores pretty much eat meat whenever they can, meat is typically opportunistic but it's a huge advantage for those that can get it. It's the reason we evolved the way we did and the reason we can get really sick long term if we don't eat any meat at all (by choice or otherwise) - vitamin B12, dehydration and iron deficiencies (resulting in reduced development in children) being the primary ones.

      --
      Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    11. Re:I don't get vegans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you try to apply logical and rational thought to a die-hard, you are going to be really disappointed. That applies to vegans, "carnivore" humans, atheists, evangelicals, scientists, etc, etc. The real question is why would people want to eat something that tastes and/or feels like meat but refuse to kill an animal? Perhaps because they think raising and killing an animal just to eat it is wrong when there are alternatives like faux meat?

      There's also the ecological question of whether animal meat vs faux meat is harmful to the planet. There's around 19 billion chickens, 1.4 billion cattle, and around 1 billion sheep and pigs (I presume each). A large percentage of those are slaughtered or exploited (constantly milked or egg laying) for human consumption yearly. The resources to feed those animals is usually a substantial amount of the food supply for which if the land were used in more diverse production would apply equal or greater food resources at lower water, erosion, etc levels.

      I say all this as a meat eater. I realize that just because meat is delicious and I want to eat it quite regularly doesn't mean it's good for me or the planet. Those who are offended by those who merely look for alternatives clearly have issues.

      Those who are offended by those who go beyond mere efforts of persuasion into the area of harassment or worse obviously have reason to be upset--as in all die-hards. It is not only too simplistic but obviously wrong to bring up vegan die-hards as an example of the norm of vegans any more than it is to point at all the morbidly obese or heart attack at 30 meat eaters.

      But, yea, keep on hating.

    12. Re:I don't get vegans by HiThere · · Score: 1

      I think the idea is that it can be made more cheaply, and if it tastes good enough, it will take over the market. This is probably correct, as with increasing competition for meat, the price will probably go up...and the Chinese have started being able to afford it.

      The question is, "Will it taste good enough?". So far the answer has been "not really" for most people, and "yes" for some, and "Why mimic meat?" for others. But each incremental step causes an additional group of people to say "yes". When I was growing up the only vegetarians were people with either religious obligations or severe economic (or health) problems. These days the stuff doesn't taste nearly as bad...or maybe my taster has just gotten more used to it.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    13. Re:I don't get vegans by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 1

      Meat has an interesting textural quality mostly absent from vegetables and fruit and even when present with fundamentally different nutritionally qualities, which makes it impossible to emulate meals which people grew up with.

      They want something familiar, without the murder.

    14. Re:I don't get vegans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      In many parts of the world the ability to tolerate lactose into adulthood is predominate. This means humans have evolved to drink milk. Lacking milk in the diet, not all that long ago, meant death. The people that could not drink milk in adulthood often failed to reproduce.

      These humans that drank the milk from cattle also ate the meat. Maybe your genetics allows you to live on an all plant diet but I'm guessing that this may not be true for everyone. I recall an article on how women are more likely to be able to get all the nutrition they need on an all plant diet. It turns out that eating meat for pregnant women carries risks for the baby, both in the womb and while breast feeding. Men on the other hand are less able to stay healthy on an all plant diet, likely having something to do with the higher calorie and protein needed for the higher muscle mass of the typical male over the typical female.

      Our genetics often require a diet that is in part from animal products. I'm a tall male of European ancestry. I need 3000 calories per day to maintain a healthy weight, as dictated by a physician. I'm pretty sure that I'd be grazing all day on an all plant diet, and I don't have time for that.

    15. Re: I don't get vegans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      People are able to be morally opposed to doing something that on a strictly visceral level might be physiologically pleasureable,.

      Like pederasty.

    16. Re: I don't get vegans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Understanding gaffot vegans is impossible ... so shove a lamb-leg up their azzwholes and and claim a broccoli-like texture.

    17. Re: I don't get vegans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Itâ(TM)s the other way around. We get sick from meat.
      We are not omnivores, neither our teeth nor our digestive system is ready for meat.

      Oh, of course if we cook it, then we can eat meat. Not much of an omnivore, right?

    18. Re: I don't get vegans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Again a flawed argument. Meat is neither richer in protein nor richer in calories compared to plant based food. Of course grass is not what I talk about.
      I do eat meat, but I do not convince myself it is somehow healthy or even necessary to eat.

    19. Re: I don't get vegans by religionofpeas · · Score: 1

      We are not omnivores, neither our teeth nor our digestive system is ready for meat.

      Our teeth are just fine for chewing meat. They aren't very good at biting through thick hide, or for killing animals, but that's because we've used spears and knives. Our teeth aren't very good for eating fruit (makes them rot), or eating hard plant matter (wears them down too quickly).

      Our digestive system is also just fine for meat. Compared to other apes we have a longer small intestine. We also have bigger kidneys to help process excess protein.

      Oh, of course if we cook it, then we can eat meat

      Yes, and our teeth have adapted to that habit. If you eat vegetables, you need to cook them too (in order to make starches easier to digest and to neutralize a variety of toxins), otherwise it's pretty much impossible to get enough calories in the wild.

    20. Re:I don't get vegans by SuperDre · · Score: 1

      It's not directed at vegan's, it's directed at meat eating people to try the vegan way... But having tasted a lot of those vegan burgers/chicken-/shormalike alternatives, they all tend to taste like cardboard.. Therefore I take these articles not really serious until I tasted it myself. Personally I don't mind if they can replace meat with vegan products if the products actually taste the same, but till now it still hasn't happened. But vegans tend to preach their way of life is better and healthier, even though there isn't any shred of scientific proof.

    21. Re: I don't get vegans by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Again a flawed argument. Meat is neither richer in protein nor richer in calories compared to plant based food. Of course grass is not what I talk about.
      I do eat meat, but I do not convince myself it is somehow healthy or even necessary to eat.

      Humans evolved on a diet that included fish, milk, eats, and red meat. Lacking any of these means a diet lacking in the vital vitamin B-12. People can live on a diet lacking animal products today only because of synthetic B-12 supplements. This is not anything close to a "natural" diet. A diet that requires synthetic additives to meet a vital nutritional need is quite likely not all that healthy, and quite possibly not "sustainable".

      The argument was that humans are omnivores and therefore a diet of all plant matter is an option, the truth is that this is not an option. It is only with modern technology to synthesize B-12 in a factory that vegans can survive today. Humans could not live on a diet lacking animal products only a few decades ago. This is most evident in the evolutionary shift in adults able to tolerate lactose. The humans that did not drink milk from animals tended to die off. Those humans that domesticated animals for food tended to have a better chance of survival than those that did not. Humans evolved from cultures that ate cooked vegetables and meat. A diet lacking cooked vegetables and meat is going to be a diet that is lacking in something important to life.

      Eating a diet that varies so wildly from our ancestors is a diet that puts a person's health at risk. If you value animal life more than your own then you deserve to die a painful death, you are an error in the evolutionary process and your death will correct it.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    22. Re:I don't get vegans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Well, the vegans I know and love run with "animals and animal products are not food".
      With that axiom in place, you get many of the resulting interactions purely from applying logical and rational thought thereafter.

      Agreed, many will behave illogically and irrationally anyway. Just like the rest of us non-vegans. /shrug

    23. Re:I don't get vegans by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We keep evolving.
      Evolution occurs faster in our culture than in our bodies.
      Next steps in evolution include changing our diet to be much lighter on the environment, and less cruel.

    24. Re:I don't get vegans by hey! · · Score: 1

      And while we're at it, what about those people who play Grand Theft Auto? It's almost as if they're saying they don't believe in violent robbery but they're happy to pretend to do it.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  9. Not true by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They make vegan meat strips now that are indistinguishable from the real thing. I have a vegan friend and eat it all the time. Pretty tasty stuff actually. Its like meat strips of beef or pork. Taste and texture are excellent.

  10. Too funny by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'll stick to eating regular steak, not this nonsense. Kthx!

  11. Ethical conservation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As an ethical conservationist, I take only what I need from the forest. No GMO, all natural and ethical.

    1. Re:Ethical conservation by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      Did you get your computer from the forest? Which tree do you plug it into?

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
    2. Re:Ethical conservation by helpfulcorn · · Score: 1

      Perhaps I can sell you some organically grown, all natural, free range C code? It's easier to keep down than the hormone-free Java. It will compile on any homeopathic (13x and higher dilution only) OS so long as you have a holistic architecture. It's all very natural and ethical, it'll just cost you ten times more for all that extra naturalness and ethincs, which is sort of funny because if so much less goes into it, you'd think it would be cheaper. Well, fuck you, give me your money so you can improve the world!

    3. Re: Ethical conservation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We're you raped by a cow as a child? You seem pretty angry about people with different views.

    4. Re: Ethical conservation by Dunbal · · Score: 1

      Pointing out the fatal flaw in someone's argument is not anger, Mr. ad hominem.

      --
      Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  12. Non-viable replacement by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 2, Interesting

    1) It takes 30 minutes to print a 100g "steak" which appears to be a little larger than a quarter.
    2) No information on it's taste or consistency. Being translucent is not a good sign.

    I really want someone to make a replacement for meat, not because I give a shit about the animals but because they are heavily subsidized and damaging to both the environment and our bodies. This isn't going to cut it.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
    1. Re: Non-viable replacement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Iâ(TM)m with you on the environmental damage / climate change affects of beef. But this is a first step, itâ(TM)s not perfect but somebody can build on this and hopefully soon we will have viable replacement so we can still have a natural planet, not just parking lots and feed lots for cows.

    2. Re: Non-viable replacement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meat is damaging to our bodies? What cool-aid have you been drinking

    3. Re:Non-viable replacement by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 2, Insightful

      1) It takes 30 minutes to print a 100g "steak" which appears to be a little larger than a quarter. 2) No information on it's taste or consistency. Being translucent is not a good sign.

      I really want someone to make a replacement for meat, not because I give a shit about the animals but because they are heavily subsidized and damaging to both the environment and our bodies. This isn't going to cut it.

      I guess I'd try it, but it doesn't sound too appetizing.

      Since we're on the subject of personal ethics, might as well give my own. I wish to cause animals as little pain as possible, but understanding that humans are inherent omnivores, I accept that meat is a part of our dietary need. So I eat meat. I enjoy it. I don't care what vegans think, and having worked with several, at this point pissing them off is not a negative thing.

      But whatever. I like food that tastes good. And I've found some veggie burgers that to me taste better than a lot of real ones. The wife and I have them several times a month.

      Oh - with a couple nice pieces of my home made bacon on them. Yum!

      If I were to give my outlook on eating meat, it would be akin to the American Indian practice of thanking the animal that provided us with the sustenance.

      All life is precious. From humans (though we seem to try to skirt that at times) to lower animals, to plants, to micro-life. Not one of us survives except by killing and eating living things.

      The concept of a human eating meat being evil is simply silly, making any omnivore or carnivore evil, and only frank vegans as non-evil.

      And for what it is worth, the vegan diet is the diet of a prey species.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    4. Re:Non-viable replacement by HiThere · · Score: 1

      Well, that's one way to enter the "Caves of Steel". It may be a better option than some of the others.

      --

      I think we've pushed this "anyone can grow up to be president" thing too far.
    5. Re:Non-viable replacement by jimbo · · Score: 1

      I believe it's bleedin' obvious that this prototype or proof of concept is not ready for mass production.

    6. Re:Non-viable replacement by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      Humans have been -- and still are -- evolving into omnivores for hundreds of thousands of years now. No moral choice can re-sequence your DNA and magically turn you into an herbivore.

    7. Re:Non-viable replacement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I think the damaging 'our bodies' is popular drivel. No peer reviewed research seems to show this. Meat/fat being bad seems to come from grain lobby and that there is not enough meat to go around if the general population woke to just how beneficial real meat was.

      Yeah I'm on the Keto diet( less than 25g carbs/day; strict) and it did f'ing wonders. ~10 months now down over 50lb(eating as much as I want), skin conditions I've had for 10 years went away, improved BP, 1/4 to 1/10th the number of headaches. I use to feel like shit after eating a bag of potato chips, never the case after eating a pound of bacon.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

    8. Re:Non-viable replacement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That's pseudoscientific horseshit, you could just as easily evolve into a fecalo-phage.

    9. Re:Non-viable replacement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really want someone to make a replacement for meat, not because I give a shit about the animals but because they are heavily subsidized and damaging to both the environment and our bodies.

      I also really want someone to make a replacement for meat, because it'll drive down the price of putting real dead cow on my plate.

    10. Re:Non-viable replacement by skam240 · · Score: 1

      No moral choice can re-sequence your DNA and magically turn you into an herbivore.

      While a vegetarian is certainly still capable of being an omnivore if someone only eats plants then for all practical purposes they are an herbivore. We're animals capable of free thought, no DNA re-sequencing necessary,

      --
      I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
    11. Re:Non-viable replacement by skam240 · · Score: 1

      The following was quoting the above and should have been in quotes, "No moral choice can re-sequence your DNA and magically turn you into an herbivore."

      --
      I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
    12. Re:Non-viable replacement by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      It's a proof of concept, not a product being offered to you. You should be welcoming this, it's a step towards the ultimate goal of a high quality synthetic steak, the thing you actually want.

      If all you do is shit on everything until it's absolutely perfect you will find that it takes much longer to get the things you want than if you try to be constructive about it.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    13. Re:Non-viable replacement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Since we're sharing ethics, I'd say that cattle are doing pretty well under the current circumstances. Being delicious, thick skinned and compliant was a successful adaptation for this strain of the bovine species.

      How many wildebeest are there? 1.5 million. Cape Buffalo? 900,000. Cattle? 998 million.

      How many pigeons are there? 400 million. Chicken? 50 billion.

      If you care about animals, the repugnant but coherent conclusion is that the best thing you can do for their species is to eat them. They worked hard to adapt to us, it'd be a tragic waste to fail them because they were so irresistibly delicious.

      Even if you don't particularly love cattle, they have earned this treatment. The number one vector for human death in history: livestock through their close proximity to man and the diseases they carry such as anthrax, BSE, sleeping sickness, and tuberculosis. Even today, the cape buffalo is one of the biggest killers in Africa today, so we should feel pretty good that we could turn such a hostile environment into a positive and productive experience for our species.

      And now that we have the upper hand on the situation, some people want to spare these creatures what little utility they retain for the human species? That's madness.

      The human species has existed for only 200,000 and nature has been trying to exterminate us that entire time. I say we take the fight to her.

    14. Re:Non-viable replacement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Oh look everyone, we found one of the brain-dead vegans! Go eat a steak, you brain is malfunctioning from malnutrition.

    15. Re:Non-viable replacement by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      "No moral choice can re-sequence your DNA and magically turn you into an herbivore".

      While a vegetarian is certainly still capable of being an omnivore if someone only eats plants then for all practical purposes they are an herbivore. We're animals capable of free thought, no DNA re-sequencing necessary,

      Your rationale is something that might be used to promote breatharianism.

      Fixed the quotes for you.

      Rick is still correct. Humans are simply not designed to be vegans, or even vegetarians. Yes, a person can make a choice that they only eat a certain thing. One of the vegans I actually liked was a fruitarian - she made the choice to only eat fruits. But the choice she made - or anyone who defines themselves by what they eat - is made by a moral or preferential choice, and has nothing to do with what we are actually designed to eat.

      I lost contact with her several years ago, I hope she went away from that diet, because that can't be healthy.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    16. Re:Non-viable replacement by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      There is nothing inherent about being human. There's no such thing as "human nature" since we are able to create it as we please.

    17. Re:Non-viable replacement by skam240 · · Score: 1

      You apparently missed the part when I stated "for all practical purposes".

      "...and has nothing to do with what we are actually designed to eat." ...And we're designed to eat plants. Yes, we can eat meat as well but we are certainly designed to eat plants. I don't think I'm getting your point there.

      --
      I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
    18. Re:Non-viable replacement by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      There is nothing inherent about being human. There's no such thing as "human nature" since we are able to create it as we please.

      "Human nature" you're quoting something I didn't write by the way - is the least of this matter.

      This is more in the realm of biochemistry. If you create as you please, the concept that you don't need air, or can live by eating sawdust, you won't survive no matter what you please.

      Certain enzymes are needed. Certain proteins are needed. A herbivore doesn't do well on a all meat diet, a frank carnivore can't live on a all vegetable diet.

      Omnivores evolved to use and need a mixture of plant and meat. But they likewise do not do well on only one or the other. No matter what we decide as we please.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    19. Re:Non-viable replacement by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      You apparently missed the part when I stated "for all practical purposes".

      "...and has nothing to do with what we are actually designed to eat." ...And we're designed to eat plants. Yes, we can eat meat as well but we are certainly designed to eat plants. I don't think I'm getting your point there.

      We are designed - we have evolved, to eat both plants and meat. This is the very essence of an omnivore. Not exclusively plants, and not exclusively meat. There are specific nutriments that humans need to live in a healthy manner. And if a person wants to be a vegan - they must tailor their diet very specifically and very carefully in order to survive in a healthy manner.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    20. Re:Non-viable replacement by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      How many wildebeest are there? 1.5 million.

      Did you ever notice that in a nature show, whenever you see a wildebeest, something really bad is going to happen?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    21. Re:Non-viable replacement by skam240 · · Score: 2

      "And if a person wants to be a vegan - they must tailor their diet very specifically and very carefully in order to survive in a healthy manner."

      So it's completely possible to be a human herbivore. Thanks for making my point.

      For the record, I eat plenty of meat. I just find your line of thinking stupid.

      --
      I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
    22. Re:Non-viable replacement by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      "And if a person wants to be a vegan - they must tailor their diet very specifically and very carefully in order to survive in a healthy manner."

      So it's completely possible to be a human herbivore. Thanks for making my point.

      I made no such point, unless you have something else in mind. No one is going to simply go into the woods and live a healthy life by eating only plants. You need very specific knowledge and access to some very specific replacement foods. Perhaps you didn't grok "very specifically and very carefully." The sort of specifically and carefully that must be adhered to when engaging in an un-natural activity.

      For the record, I eat plenty of meat. I just find your line of thinking stupid.

      That's nice. And given your responses, I'm not surprised you find my line of reasoning stupid. It really isn't difficult though.

      Human - Eat an omnivorous diet. Get nutriments that millions of years of evolution have adapted your physiology to function with. Naturally and simply. No intervention needed.

      Human - Eat an all vegetable matter diet. Without intervention, insufficient nutriment intake. Diet must be supplemented with some rather specific intake. That intake must be known to be eaten.

      Frank Carnivore - Not possible to adequately feed on an all plant diet. Additions of plants into food is dangerous.

      Frank Herbivore - I do not know of research showing a meat only diet for Frank Herbivores.

      Omnivores - Eat a mixed diet. Get essential nutriments from both meat and vegetable.

      Now let's not go Dunning Kruger on us, mkay?

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
    23. Re:Non-viable replacement by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 1

      First of all, we are not 'designed'. We have evolved, please be more careful in your choice of terms. Furthermore, while some distant (i.e. likely on the order of X*10^6 years ago) hominid ancestor of ours might have been herbivorous, homo sapiens are clearly not; as previously stated, we have been evolving into omnivores for at least hundreds of thousands of years. We cannot change our dietary requirements on a whim any more than someone can just change the color of their eyes through a sheer act of will. You can argue against this all you want but the facts do not support your claims. In fact there is evidence suggesting that starting to become omnivorous may have been a major contributing factor in our developing the level of intelligence we now take for granted.

    24. Re:Non-viable replacement by skam240 · · Score: 1

      "I made no such point, unless you have something else in mind. No one is going to simply go into the woods and live a healthy life by eating only plants. You need very specific knowledge and access to some very specific replacement foods. Perhaps you didn't grok "very specifically and very carefully." The sort of specifically and carefully that must be adhered to when engaging in an un-natural activity."

      You're making that lifestyle out to be waaayyyy harder then it is in a modern society. It's actually very easy to be a reasonably nutritionally fit vegan in modern society. If you pay a bit of attention to the food you buy then you can be nutritionally sound fairly easily. Really this is true for anyone of any diet. On the other hand there are plenty of people in the first world who eat meat who are nutritionally deficient.

      --
      I ignore Anonymous Coward posts. If you want to discuss something, that's awesome. Log in.
    25. Re:Non-viable replacement by Ol+Olsoc · · Score: 1

      You're making that lifestyle out to be waaayyyy harder then it is in a modern society. It's actually very easy to be a reasonably nutritionally fit vegan in modern society. If you pay a bit of attention to the food you buy then you can be nutritionally sound fairly easily. Really this is true for anyone of any diet. On the other hand there are plenty of people in the first world who eat meat who are nutritionally deficient.

      Vitamin B12 is one issue. Especially for Pregnant vegans. It is considered critical that a pregnant vegan consult and work with a healthccare specialist - especially since the vegan doiet is often heavy in floats, which mask a B-12 deficiency , often until severe symptoms show up. Infants born can have physical issues even if the vegan mother does not.

      Calcium. Vegans have a 30 percent higher bone fracture risk. Supplements are critical.

      Vitamin D. Dont get enough vitamin D and the critical Calcium and protein will not be absorbed Suplements are critical.

      Omega 3 fatty acids are deficient in vegans. Plant based Omega 3 conversion is inefficient compared to fish based - Vegans must take a lot of these sources and supplements

      Iodine deficiency - Like goiter? In addition to a lack of iodine, excessive consumption of vegetables like sweet potatos or Cauliflour or broccoli can cause goiter if Iodine levels are not high enough - Supplements or mandatory seaweed consumption is indicated. Pregnant women with iodine shortage can produce babies with cretinism.

      Iron zinc, protein are also issues The Mayo Clinic states that recommended iron intake must be almost twice that of a normal diet. As well, males who want to become vegan must be checked for hemochromatosis to avoid liver failure or diabetes mellitus before doubling their iron intake. This is not shit I made up. So anything you wish to refute, have at it.

      Point is, you can get adequate nutrition on a vegetarian diet. You cannot on a vegan diet without lots of supplements, and with very well outlined and specific health risks to the vegan and their offspring. Veganism is simply an unnatural and potentially dangerous diet.

      --
      The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
  13. Cue the vegan-bashing... by Misagon · · Score: 0, Troll

    Oh, God... Here we go again.

    "Why do vegans want things that look and taste like meat?"
    * Not every vegan/vegetarian does. Many shun products that are too much like meat.
    * It is for ex-meat eaters who want to recreate a dish in veggie form -- but often not specifically the meat in that dish. Maybe the dish is traditional or a memory from childhood.
    * It is for socialising together with meat-eaters without having to feel left out.
    * Vegetarians are lazy too, and something pre-packaged is just easy to cook.
    * Or ... the product is actually for climate-conscious meat-eaters. Call them "hipsters" if you will -- maybe they are. Or maybe it is prepping for an eventual day when livestock has been outlawed because drastic measures are needed to save the climate.

    "I eat meat. Meat is yummy"
    What an insightful comment! Here is a ball. Why don't you bounce it?

    --
    "We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
    1. Re:Cue the vegan-bashing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whatever helps you sleep at night ...

    2. Re: Cue the vegan-bashing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We all know what helps him sleep at night

    3. Re:Cue the vegan-bashing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      How is "I eat meat. Meat is yummy" vegan bashing? It sounds like you're carnivore bashing. In fact, how is your first question vegan bashing? Are you too insecure to answer (or ignore) questions?

    4. Re:Cue the vegan-bashing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're conflating vegans with vegetarians. Please don't.

    5. Re:Cue the vegan-bashing... by Solandri · · Score: 4, Interesting

      "I eat meat. Meat is yummy"
      What an insightful comment! Here is a ball. Why don't you bounce it?

      I'll bite. I eat meat. Meat is yummy. Your body has evolved so that things that are good for you taste yummy. By not eating meat, you are depriving your body of nutrients it needs to survive. Vegetarians and especially vegans have to be careful to supplement their diet with pills or sufficient quantities of specific plants which provide those nutrients. Thus indicating that theirs is the diet which is innately unnatural and unhealthy. You can make an argument against eating too much meat, but that does not translate into an argument for eating no meat at all.

      The argument that eating meat is cruel is easy to shoot down too. If your reasoning is based on minimizing the amount of cruelty animals suffer, consider that the fate of nearly every living thing is to be eaten alive. It just happens out of our sight most of the time. But that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. Living to a ripe old age and dying of natural causes (organ failure) is something almost unique to humans and the few animals we adopt as pets. Nearly all wild animals die young, painfully, and frequently with what most people would consider close to the "maximum" amount of suffering possible. In contrast, the way we dispatch domesticated animals for meat is quick, painless, and humane. So you actually reduce the total amount of cruelty suffered by animals by replacing wild animals in the environment with domesticated ones, protect them from predators and disease with our fences and medicines, then dispatch them painlessly when you're ready to slaughter them.

      Then there's the argument that meat is too resource-intensive. That the world's human population is growing beyond the land's capability to feed it, so we need to start eating lower on the food chain. Except that's false too. Nearly all of the world's population growth is happening in developing nations. The developed countries (where most meat eating happens) have close to zero population growth; some even have negative population growth (their population is shrinking). So they're clearly able to feed their populations using the land and resources they have. If you want to reduce population growth, the key is to help all countries on the planet become economically developed. Regressing to an agrarian society is actually counterproductive, and will result in even faster population growth.

      The only argument for vegetarianism / veganism I've heard which makes sense is the energy intensity one. You can feed the population using less energy per capita if everyone eats plants (even after accounting for supplements to make up nutrients normally obtained from meat). But the entirety of modern civilization is based on being able to generate more energy per capita than in the past. As a nation develops, the percentage of its economic output devoted to food production decreases. Since everyone still must be eating (the same amount of food is being produced per capita), that means the country is producing more energy per capita than before. And that excess energy is being spent on productive tasks other than food production. If there's plenty of excess energy, why not use some of it to raise meat if you want?

      Note that if the scientists researching this are able to produce something which tastes like meat but requires less energy to produce than raising animals, I will have no qualms about switching to it. Less energy to produce translates into lower cost, so it'll be a simple economic decision. Contrary to the imaginations of vegetarians / vegans, knowing an animal died to feed you is not a part of the enjoyment from eating meat.

    6. Re:Cue the vegan-bashing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your body has evolved so that things that are good for you taste yummy.

      In the sense that "good for you" used to mean "don't die from lack of calories" then, yes. But now that many people in developed countries are getting so many calories that it's actually bad for their health, there's a case to made that the higher calorie food that tastes yummy is no longer good for you.

      By not eating meat, you are depriving your body of nutrients it needs to survive.

      People need a wide variety of nutrients in order to be healthy. In general, if you only eat one particular food ingredient (only ever eat steak, only ever eat broccoli, etc.) then you're going to eventually end up with a nutritional deficiency. If you really want to only ever eat one thing and not have to worry about a nutritional deficiency then something carefully engineered like Soylent is pretty much the only option.

      The argument that eating meat is cruel is easy to shoot down too.

      Suppose you were given the choice between living free but eventually dying a painful death, or being raised in captivity (on something like a feed lot) by space aliens who would eventually kill you (humanely in a typical slaughter house) and eat you, or not existing at all - which would you choose? Back when people were debating whether black people should be slaves, one argument was that the slaves had better lives working on the plantations than they would have had back in the "jungles" of Africa. But, myself, if I had to choose between freedom in Africa or slavery on a southern plantation, I'm pretty sure I would choose freedom.

      So, since I would not, myself, want to be raised in captivity and then killed and eaten. And many animals that are raised for food are sophisticated enough to prefer not to be killed and eaten, it seems like the ethical thing to do to respect their preferences.

      If you want to reduce population growth, the key is to help all countries on the planet become economically developed.

      In this context, economic development is about industrialization - using science and technology to produce goods and services more efficiently. It has nothing to do with whether the agriculture is producing animal-based food or plant-based food.

      Contrary to the imaginations of vegetarians / vegans, knowing an animal died to feed you is not a part of the enjoyment from eating meat.

      But part of the enjoyment of plant-based meat would be knowing that an animal didn't die to feed you. :)

    7. Re: Cue the vegan-bashing... by mapkinase · · Score: 1

      memory from childhood.

      And I thought it would be some kind of bullshit reason...

      --
      I do not believe in karma. "Funny"=-6. Do good and forbid evil. Yours, Oft-Offtopic Flamebaiting Troll.
    8. Re:Cue the vegan-bashing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Meat is yummy. Your body has evolved so that things that are good for you taste yummy.

      Based on that, I would have to assume that most vegetables are toxic.

      In contrast, the way we dispatch domesticated animals for meat is quick, painless, and humane. So you actually reduce the total amount of cruelty suffered by animals by replacing wild animals in the environment with domesticated ones, protect them from predators and disease with our fences and medicines, then dispatch them painlessly when you're ready to slaughter them.

      Agreed, nature is brutal.

      Their demise is only part of the cruelty. Many food animals live their lives in tiny little cages. I've seen chickens jammed into little cages with barely a feather left on them. They peck each other a lot in the confined space. Pigs and cows also often live in horrible conditions in tiny pens, barely able to move.

      Death is a relief for them.

      Full disclosure: I eat meat. I love it.

    9. Re:Cue the vegan-bashing... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Being human is not natural. There's nothing natural about, say, justice or democracy. Why should your diet be natural? Is your body natural? Think about it!

  14. Re:vegan goodie goodies need to die in a fire by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Why would you insult someone who is trying to improve the world? You may not realize it but the level of animal products per capita in the US is unsustainable and therefore will need to be replaced with something. It's better we figure out how to do so sooner rather than later.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  15. ASCII Much? by AndyKron · · Score: 1

    This is my "I don't care" face. (-__-)

  16. Re:vegan goodie goodies need to die in a fire by iggymanz · · Score: 2, Insightful

    Strawman argument, that's not "improving the world." Your definition of "improving the world" is not accepted.

    What nonsense to say it's unsustainable. It is very sustainable and only an engineering problem to make more meat.

  17. I don't understand by blanca12 · · Score: 0

    I don't understand the vegan mindset. _____________________________________ https://inro.in/lucky-patcher/ https://inro.in/9apps/ https://inro.in/vidmate/

    1. Re: I don't understand by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I really truly don't understand the Apple or Microshaft mindset.

  18. Keepin' it Natural by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I'm a vegan because I don't belive in factory foods created by multinational conglomerates like Monsanto, ADM, and Bayer.

    I prefer my food to come from smaller, woke, artisan factories.

    1. Re: Keepin' it Natural by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This seems sort of strange to me. These are problems which are limited to vegetables, but monsanto is a bad company.

    2. Re:Keepin' it Natural by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Funny enough all those listed companies have stakes in the farming "plant" industry. If it weren't for these multinational conglomerates, we probably would't have nearly the crop yields that we have these days that there is excess for these hippies to have their fake meat/dairy products. If hyper processed plant products to make something that resembles meat and dairy isn't the epitome of processed foods, I don't know what is.

    3. Re:Keepin' it Natural by hey! · · Score: 1

      I prefer my food to come from smaller, woke, artisan factories.

      Reminds me of a sign I saw at a truck stop: "Artisan egg sandwiches".

      My immediate thought was that I'd rather take the egg home and put it in an incubator. What will hatch? A stonemason? Glassblower?

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  19. Re: vegan goodie goodies need to die in a fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    OMG itâ(TM)s so loud in here! I didnâ(TM)t know it could get so loud!

  20. lol by Shaitan · · Score: 1

    "Despite an abundance of meat-free products already on the market that taste similar to animal meats"

    ROFL

    Good luck naming one. Maybe after so long without tasting a juicy steak or burger you forget what one tastes like... and I do mean entirely forget.

    1. Re:lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      My sister used to make vege burgers without telling us and we never picked up on it until after she told us.
      There's a few brands of fake bacon that taste pretty much the same as bacon.

    2. Re:lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I notice that you didn't actually name one.

  21. Haribo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is this part of a new line of Haribo gummy products? That "steak" looks like a gummy candy.

  22. mama mia that's a spicy... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    3D-printed meat-free meatball made from vegetable proteins.

  23. Re: It is vegan steak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Is it called hung lo? Are you bullying gays on the down low?

  24. I already eat plant-based steaks by LynnwoodRooster · · Score: 2

    They keep saying "you are what you eat", and since cattle eat grass, I figure by eating a steak I'm eating vegetables... Time for another salad - a nice, big, New York Strip salad, medium rare!

    --
    Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
    1. Re:I already eat plant-based steaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So you're basically a big bag of Russian cocks, eh Trumptarded nazi?

    2. Re:I already eat plant-based steaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      If that is what's been deep in your mom every day, well...

    3. Re:I already eat plant-based steaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Then she's a Republican just like you?

    4. Re:I already eat plant-based steaks by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      Yeah, BSE totally comes from the cows eating grass. L

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    5. Re:I already eat plant-based steaks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      They keep saying "you are what you eat", and since cattle eat grass, I figure by eating a steak I'm eating vegetables... Time for another salad - a nice, big, New York Strip salad, medium rare!

      Sadly, most are not eating grass because they are grain fed, and we are losing out on vitamin K2 because of it. Probably among other things.

  25. Re:vegan goodie goodies need to die in a fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The last time we tried to transform The Great Prairie from the perfect habitat for meat on the hoof to crop farmland, it resulted in the greatest ecological disaster in the history of the US: The Dust Bowl.

  26. Re:vegan goodie goodies need to die in a fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The steak is a lie. Lies don't improve the world. If someone squirts some plant paste on my plate and tells me it's filet mignon, then I'm going to piss on their leg and tell them it's raining.

  27. Re: It is vegan steak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Come again, sum yung gai?

  28. Re: vegan goodie goodies need to die in a fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There were umpteen million bison out there farting our climate into oblivion. Not to mention the billions of nasty passenger pigeons.

  29. Eating meat is morally repugnant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thats why as a vegan i like to pretend to eat meat.

  30. Vegans are extremists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Vegan are extremists, that's all you need to know about them.

    They oppose all form of animal exploitation, and yet the vast majority of them own pets, for their own personal benefit (like most pet owners), but are perfectly ok with that. They say "well my pet is not suffering, it is healthy and happy", well so are the chickens in my back yard that I keep with absolutely no fence, that are free to leave whenever they want. Pets = ok, free range chickens = not ok. Their philosophy is inconsistent and irrational.

    They claim all animal killing is murder on the same level as human murder, but they still cannot explain why they don't consider killing plant life also murder. They'll say that killing an animal makes them suffer, when there are ways to instantly kill an animal without suffering, as any competent firearm hunter will tell you. Furthermore, they have no proof that plants don't suffer, especialy when they eat them raw, like many of them do.

    I could go on and on, but basically, the only reason vegans are the way they are is their emotional reactionto seeing animals suffer, or to the idea of animal suffering. Veganism is rooted purely and only on emotion, and every seemingly rational argument they make in favor of it is pure rationalisation, trying to intellectually justify their philosophy.

    1. Re:Vegans are extremists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. You're just ignorant and projecting your misunderstanding onto a group that is nothing like what you claim.

      There certainly are animal activists (not necessarily vegans nor even vegetarians), and some are more extreme than others. However, being vegan is a personal dietary choice. It doesn't mean anything else.

      Most of the vegans and vegetarians don't declare their personal choice and resent it when non-vegetarians makes a fuss over their personal dietary choice when dining out.

      LPT: Never announce to a waiter that your friend is vegan/vegetarian.

    2. Re:Vegans are extremists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You would not have a problem with killing another human to eat it then?

    3. Re:Vegans are extremists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I (different AC to the one above) am a vegetarian and have been so for over twenty years. If civilisation fell, I would have no problem with cannibalism to survive. I'd gladly feast on my enemies. And possibly my neighbours.

    4. Re:Vegans are extremists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope. You're just ignorant and projecting your misunderstanding onto a group that is nothing like what you claim.

      I've had personnal experience with people that are exactly as I describe. And they call themselves vegans. Who am I to believe ? You, or them ?

      OTOH, I've had vegetarian friends for decades. Very good friends. They don't eat any animal product, don't wear any fur, don't use any product tested on animals. They call themselves vegetarians. And you know what ? They hate vegans. With a passion.

      You're conflating vegetarianism and veganism. Vegetarianism is a "personal dietary choice". Veganism is an extremist, activist movement, by definition. The former is moderate and logically consistent. The later is not.

    5. Re:Vegans are extremists by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Looks like I found a vegan here, and not surprised he would try to use logical falacy. Logical falacy is all vegans can use, because their whole philosophy is based on it.

      Did I say that I was vegan ? Did I say that I considered human life equal to animal life ? Heck, I don't even consider all animal life to be equal, yet I don't like animal suffering, and I never intentionnaly inflict suffering on animals, I even take care not to step on ants when walking down to street, and every insect and arachnid I find in my home I carefully pick up and put outside. And I consider large scale, industrial cattle raising to be cruel and unworthy of a so-called civilized species.

      Yet I unapologetically swat mosquitoes that try to suck my blood, and I show no pity to the fleas that bother my chickens. And the last animal that tried to raid their coop will remember it dearly for the rest of his life.

      Are you telling me that you or any other vegan have never swat a mosquito ? Are you telling me that when fleas and ticks attack your beloved animal slaves, I mean, pets, you do nothing about it ? After all, mosquitoes, fleas and ticks are animal life, aren't they ?

      As I said: Inconsistent, irrational mindset, based purely on emotion and nothing else. At least have the courage to admit it and present your philosophy for what it is. After all, there's nothing wrong with emotions. There is, however, something wrong with hypocrisy and trying to paint anyone not adhering to your philosophy as evil murderers.

  31. You aren't trying. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    This is NOT hard to understand. I will explain it plainly anyway:

    An animal carcass laying in a pool of blood, with organs hanging out or head chopped off, "looks like the result of murder."

    A cooked and finished steak does not "look like the result of murder."

    See? One looks a LOT more appetizing than the other, even to many meat eaters. And it doesn't matter, because "looks like the result of murder" is not remotely what motivates vegans to avoid eating meat. Many do it out of compassion, some for health reasons, and some because they don't like the taste. This whole "looks like the result of murder" is something YOU made up which is not relevant at all.

    So stop being deliberately obtuse.

    I will add that there isn't some huge market of Vegans clamoring for something more steak-like than tofu. This invention isn't for that purpose. Someday, when the tech is good enough, it may be able to produce protein-rich food that is as pleasant to eat as meat, but without the huge environmental impact (and at lower cost). Until then, this is just a prototype that isn't ready for any market.

    1. Re:You aren't trying. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      An animal carcass laying in a pool of blood, with organs hanging out or head chopped off, "looks like the result of murder."

      A cooked and finished steak does not "look like the result of murder."

      So, by your own admission, veganism is based on principles that are purely subjective.

      And the desire to extend to the entire human population a philosophy based on the purely subjective principles of a very narrow subset of the population is somehow a Good Thing (tm) ?

      Yeah, I thought so.

  32. Re:vegan goodie goodies need to die in a fire by Dunbal · · Score: 1

    trying to improve the world?

    Because one man's freedom fighter is another man's terrorist. Improvement is subjective.

    --
    Seven puppies were harmed during the making of this post.
  33. Re:vegan goodie goodies need to die in a fire by Powercntrl · · Score: 1

    You may not realize it but the level of animal products per capita in the US is unsustainable

    Cows are a renewable resource. They fucking eat grass. If humanity becomes doomed because we can't figure out how to grow grass for cows to eat, we deserve our fate.

    Furthermore, if you're talking about cow farts, we can clean that shit out of the atmosphere with technology that exists today. If it actually became a problem, we'd have more motivation to use it.

    --

    ---
    DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
  34. Steak? by Vanyle · · Score: 1

    That is supposed to be a steak? Looks more like a gummy bear.

  35. Re:vegan goodie goodies need to die in a fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Your definition of "improving the world" is not accepted." Actually empirically, it is. Your tastes don't matter, deplorable nothing faggot.

  36. Re: It is vegan steak by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Just good clean young Republican homosexual nazi fun. Trump Jr. is prison-dreamy.

  37. Humans evolved as meat eaters. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As hunter-gatherers the human diet for many thousands of years was primarily fruits supplemented with meat.

    Grain based diets and meat based diets are both relatively new, and tend towards being unhealthy, as does a meat-free diet.

    As for sustainable meat, what we really need is actual meat tissue that's grown in a lab and not on an animal. Besides avoiding the ethical issues raised by factory farms, lab grown meat should be substantially more efficient, more consistent, and far less impactful on the environment (hint - E. coli outbreaks involving vegetables are always caused by runoff from a livestock operation).

    1. Re:Humans evolved as meat eaters. by Pinky's+Brain · · Score: 0

      We also evolved to live without medical care and face natural selection.

      Lab grown meat is just an investment scam. You can't just throw muscle cells into some cheap vegetable soup and fish out a steak. They need to be thrown into a carefully and expensively chemically produced sterile nutrient soup, which then needs to be kept mostly free from the waste products the muscle cells produce which adds more costs. Those cells don't form in nice tasty big muscles with inter-muscular-fat deposits either. You just get a bunch of cells, which at best you can press into something resembling very poor ground beef.

      Nature is our bitch and science our backhand. We can create anything deficient from vegetable sources with yeasts and bacteria ... we don't need animal cell cultures for that. As for then making something palatable resembling a steak at a reasonable price, I think 3D printing has much better odds than using animal cell cultures for the foreseeable future.

    2. Re:Humans evolved as meat eaters. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yet people have no qualms about throwing animal feces into their "sustainable" vegetable gardens. Guess what, if it wasn't for us meat eaters you wouldn't have enough animal feces to throw on to your plants. You'll be at the mercy of Monsanto, ADM, and Bayer to create all the nutrients that your "plant meat" needs.

  38. millennials? vegans? freaks! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You millennial vegan FREAKS can't just enjoy a normal steak? THAT'S how you get the texture of real beef! Why would you want to replicate the texture if you hate it so much? You know, even if you believe in evolution, don't you think we evolved to love the taste of what our species is used to and what our species needs? YES, humans are MEAT EATERS (well, omnivores, to be exact). Get your heads our of your ASSES. This whole vegan thing is very new. Any radical changes that were made in just a few decades, whilst humans have been on this earth for many magnitudes longer... well, those are, as I said, RADICAL and stupid! Wake up!

  39. Re: vegan goodie goodies need to die in a fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    We could start eating aborted fetuses. Two problems solved.

  40. GURUEVI IS A KNOWN PEDO! DOES HE EAT CHILDREN? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You're a known PEDO guruevi! Do you also EAT the poor children you rape you cowardly monster? Disgusting coward!

  41. Re: It isn't gay sex... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Did you just say party pants?

    It is a serious question, your Honor.

  42. What a bunch of utter bullshit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    In an effort to reduce the impact of animal agriculture and to improve people's nutrition

    BULLSHIT. The Vegan agenda has little to do with 'human health' and everything to do with elevating dumb animals above humans on the food chain. Vegans couldn't give a rats' ass about human health or vitality, they'd just as soon the human race mostly died off just so some dumb cow or chicken can live. Strict vegetarian diets are not healthy for humans because we've been evolving into omnivores for hundreds of thousands of years. No so-called 'moral choice' can magically re-sequence your DNA and turn you into an herbivore. Strict vegetarian diets over the long term cause any number of malnutrition-caused ailments, including interfering with the normal functioning of your brain. Pediatricians will counsel parents to not try to feed their developing children all-plant-based diets because it will sabotage their growth and health and could even kill them; parents that do not heed this advice will have the pediatrician in question call Child Protective Services because it's severe enough to qualify as child abuse.

  43. Re:vegan goodie goodies need to die in a fire by Gravis+Zero · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It is very sustainable and only an engineering problem to make more meat.

    Everything is only an engineering problem. The question is, when does the cost become too high to continue?

    I looked into your past posts because I had a feeling you might be one of the many people worthy of the label "foe" but I found you to be an intelligent and interesting person. You are rough around the edges like rusty razor blades but not the typical "out of your fucking mind" extremism that fails to comport to logic that's become the staple of post-2008 Slashdot. Congratulations, you win nothing.

    --
    Anons need not reply. Questions end with a question mark.
  44. Steak like substance by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Green slime may be described as a "steak-like-substance". It also may be described as the soilent-green shit Trotsky-slut progressives penned-up in the barb-wire Utah gulag are fed with bread and de-pissed grey-water until they drop dead.

  45. Re:vegan goodie goodies need to die in a fire by Rick+Schumann · · Score: 2

    Someone walks up to you and says:
    Hey, I want to improve the world, too! Here, help me spread this weaponized virus that will kill 90% of the humans on the planet, then stop and leave us alone!
    ..what do you mean you won't help me, I said I want to improve the world!

    Someone else walks up to you and says:
    Hey, I want to improve the world, too! Here, take this bomb and go blow up that Mosque full of muslims, then take this assault rifle and go kill as many blacks as you can!
    ..what do you mean you won't help me, I said I want to improve the world!

    Be careful what you wish for, you might just get it.

  46. gabagool by PopeRatzo · · Score: 0

    Wake me up when they can 3D print a nice vegan sopressata that actually tastes like sopressata.

    I hope they take away this bioengineer's Italian citizenship. He's making the rest of us look bad.

    --
    You are welcome on my lawn.
    1. Re:gabagool by Krishnoid · · Score: 1

      How about some'a nice gabba-gool? You may as well 3d-print it and serve it, since I bet a lot of people don't know what it is anyway.

  47. Re: vegan goodie goodies need to die in a fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As said plenty of times before.

    Emulating meat is something most vegans do not get at all. Why emulate something you do not like anyway?

  48. Veganism is actually bad for your health by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Veganism is just not natural. It is almost like illness. I know a few ppl suffering from sever lack of B12, and guess what - they stopped being vagans. It is not normal human behavior to take shots just to keep being vegan. What is the big deal? Not healt because they eat GMO plants every day.

  49. LOL at the Slashdot sociopaths by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My god, don't the comments here show the almost universal sociopathy of Slashdotters... Incapable of the most basic form of empathy.
    And also incapable of questioning anything they've been told since childhood. Eating meat is totally unnatural for humans, which is why we can't chase down animals and kill them with our bare hands and teeth - do we have claws? Are we able to bite a cow on the back of the neck and break their spine to kill them? Are your hands designed to kill animals? Think about it. Yet the vast majority of people will swear blind that they are supposed to eat meat, without actually thinking it through.
    Lab grown meat (not the 'meat' discussed in this article) is very soon going to be cheaper than 'real' meat, and at that point the argument for torturing and killing animals (yes, they are tortured, but how would a sociopath even comprehend such suffering if it isn't their own?) will be over.

  50. Re:vegan goodie goodies need to die in a fire by grep+-v+'.*'+* · · Score: 1

    Your definition of "improving the world" is not accepted.

    THAT. THat, thAT. THAT's the problem. Who decides who's right? The SJW / PITA / whatever people have already decided they're right and everyone else is wrong and in some cases must be immediately stopped. Discussion? Convincing other people? Who has time for that?

    Let's say we all agree that pollution is bad and needs to be reduced. THEY want to remove all coal plants, I want to remove half, YOU want to remove the single absolute worst offender (by whatever standards.) Who's right? We ALL are. Who's wrong? We ALL are.

    Who's in control? Well that's an interesting question. In the US it's supposed to be a democracy, with people arguing for both sides and somehow coming to an agreement. Except people have lost faith in (some/all of) their elected officials, and Climate Change! Save the Baby Whales! Save the Amazon! seem to have reached a fever pitch. But I'm sure we can still go higher -- after all, fatigue sets in so you have to be louder and louder to attract and keep attention. Luckily we have "filter bubbles" and "safe spaces" and Facebook communities to keep us from the horrible din of conflicting ideas.

    Remember Windows viruses and hoaxes a decade ago? X is bad / wrong, tell all your friends about it right NOW! Don't check with anyone, this too important for that. you're our only hope, Obi Wan User, don't let us down.

    It is very sustainable and only an engineering problem to make more meat.

    ... is people!

    --
    If the universe is someone's simulation -- does that mean the stars are just stuck pixels?
  51. Reductio Ad Absurdum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Vegans say that it's wrong to kill any animal. How much do you want to bet they'd be willing to slaughter hundreds of animals? Just go to the vegan's home and sprinkle flea eggs.

    1. Re:Reductio Ad Absurdum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Better yet, bedbugs. Great idea to infest vegans with bedbugs.

  52. Why this is important. by Maelwryth · · Score: 1

    If you take a country like New Zealand, replacing meat with a vegetable alternative will massively cut down emmissions. And in reply to those not understanding the vegan mindset. Part of that mindset is to reduce the amount of pain and suffering humans cause animals. Replacing meat with and alternative means less animals butchered (perhaps).

    --
    I reserve the write to mangle english.
  53. I like my untextured soy protein, thanks. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Really, I don't get the obsession over recreating the worst aspects of meat "for the sake" of vegetarians. Who wants to chew some grizzly tough piece of fibrous matter sculpted to emulate being ripped from animal corpses? Give me a smooth piece of tofu any old day.

  54. Re:vegan goodie goodies need to die in a fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So much THIS!
    I love my veggies, but CHRIST vegan food is disgusting almost all the time. It's either horribly bland or tastes like actual dirt, or, it tastes entirely of spinach / kale / some other leafy green since that is all they know how to fucking use.
    The only decent thing I have had that didn't taste like 10 kinds of ass was a Quorn tikka masala. That was damn tasty. But that is specifically because the quorn itself has a pretty mild taste similar to how chicken usually tastes, not too strong but not too bland.

    There is nothing wrong with eating meat.
    The big problem is eating TOO much meat. Hell, just eating too much period, never mind the meat.
    Most humans alive today can get by on 1-2 meals a day on a typical 8-10inch plate. No heaped servings either.
    The most obese areas in the world eat 4x or more. It's obscene.
    Unless you are a hunter-gatherer, there is zero reason for eating that much. We simply don't expend the energy we get from those meals.
    Not only that, those peoples bodies are no longer going through autophagy at required healthy levels due to said diets, which is THE biggest reason for most modern illness. (including the recent-ish explosion in cancer over the past 2 decades)
    The body can't repair itself if it is flooded with nutrients. It simply stops.
    "Starving" is a literal feature of the body. Farming royally fucked with that. Our body hasn't had enough time to adapt to that since it is such a fundamental feature of our biology.
    Of course, with modern scummy companies, they have tricked people in to thinking not eating every few hours means you will die or other stupid shit. Some people seriously think that. Or at the least, end up unwell.
    They have burned in to their minds so hard they actually do end up feeling physically sick, a psychosomatic reaction to not eating constantly.
    It's a disaster.

  55. Lab meat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The only solution is lab grown meat, basically bioengineered muscle tissue And that's some way off. Most of the world eat a fraction of the meat that Americans eat in the Standard American Diet.

  56. You don't need 3D printers for this by eggstasy · · Score: 1

    We've been making fibrous food for centuries, it's called noodles. Surely you can "print" a vegan-friendly steak-like material in mere seconds using the same method.
    100 grams every 30 minutes will never sell, my family would need to have a 3d printer working on this for 16 hours a day to survive off of this "meat", and we would most definitely not prefer vegan "steak" unless it's substantially cheaper.

  57. Re:vegan goodie goodies need to die in a fire by coofercat · · Score: 1

    Indeed. I've recently patented the '3D cow pasture' - it's a bit like vertical gardening, except with cows.

  58. if you can add in "blockchain" and "mobile first" by mwfischer · · Score: 1

    this becomes the most millennial thing i've ever read on /.

  59. No mention of taste by DaveV1.0 · · Score: 1

    So it must look like steak and taste like shit.

    --
    There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
  60. Why a 3d printer? by scourfish · · Score: 1

    Other than sounding fancy and futuristic, why not just mix a bunch of proteins together like all other fake meat does?

    1. Re: Why a 3d printer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The printing process lays down the protein mixture in a way that simulates the stranded texture of meat. Think of the way shredded beef or turkey breast comes apart. They've pretty much had the flavor aspect down for a couple decades. 3d printing opens up all sorts of novel possibilities for texture and shape.

      If they can mimic browning, texture, and taste, then there's a possibility to not only replace meat, but improve on it.

      Imagine a multi material food printer, laying down beef and bacon, and various spices embedded in a patty.

      And hopefully they can devise some way of just using real meat with these systems.

  61. Re: vegan goodie goodies need to die in a fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    So you're saying that killing off species is good for the planet.

  62. How do you know if someone eats meat? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Don't worry, they'll tell you.

  63. Good by gx5000 · · Score: 1

    No seriously, let them develop this....more steak for the rest of us unethical evil meat eaters.

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    End of Line.
  64. Talk about animal cruelty by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There are nearly a billion cows on earth. If people quit eating them they would be nearly extinct and seen only in zoos.

  65. Nasty and Disgusting by DatbeDank · · Score: 1

    Please tell me how this horrificly over processed fake meat is any better than the soy'd, GMO monstrosities that we already have today?

    Vegans need to stop making imitations and make creations of their own. Vegan steak, please. How about a 4 day cured and smoked watermelon?

    https://www.foodandwine.com/ne...

  66. Why is this news? by BrendaEM · · Score: 1

    There are a lot of other vegetarian meats available, many more convincing than the meat in the article.

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
    1. Re:Why is this news? by hey! · · Score: 1

      Well, it's a different approach than what we've mostly heard about. The usual approach in the news is to culture meat cells on some kind of collagen matrix. The result actually *is* meat, but without the animal cruelty issues some people object to.

      But if you think about it, some kind of process where the artificial tissues is constructed out of some readily available vegetable feed stock would have quite a few practical advantages.

      --
      Post may contain irony: discontinue use if experiencing mood swings, nausea or elevated blood pressure.
  67. Vegan by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Read that it is an old Indian word meaning terrible hunter.

  68. Reverend Horton Heat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Eat steak, eat steak
    Eat a big ol' steer
    Eat steak, eat steak
    Do we have one near?
    Eat beef, eat beef
    It's a mighty good food
    It's a grade A meal
    When I'm in the mood

    Cowpokes'll come from a near and far
    When you throw a few rib-eyes on the fire
    Roberto Duran ate two before a fight
    'Cause it gives a mighty man an awful lot of mighty might

    Eat steak, eat steak
    Eat a big ol' steer
    Eat steak, eat steak
    Do we have one near?
    Eat beef, eat beef
    It's a mighty good food
    It's a grade A meal
    When I'm in the mood

    Eat meat, eat meat, filet mignon
    Eat meat, eat meat, eat it all day long
    Eat a few T-bones till you get your fill
    Eat a New York cut hot off the grill

    Eat a cow, eat a cow 'cause it's good for you
    Eat a cow, eat a cow, it's a thing that goes moo

    Look at all the cows in the slaughterhouse yard
    Gotta hit 'em in the head, gotta hit 'em real hard
    First you gotta clean it then the butcher cuts it up
    Throws it on a scale, throws an eyeball in a cup

    Saw a big Brangus steer standing right over there
    So I rustled up a fire, cooked him medium rare
    Bar-B-Q'ed his brisket, a-roasted his rump
    Fed my dog that ol' Brangus steer's hump

    Eat steak, eat steak
    Eat a big ol' steer
    Eat steak, eat steak
    Do we have one near?
    Eat beef, eat beef
    It's a mighty good food
    It's a grade A meal
    When I'm in the mood

  69. Re:vegan goodie goodies need to die in a fire by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What nonsense to say it's unsustainable. It is very sustainable and only an engineering problem to make more meat.

    The easiest engineering solution is to reduce the number of humans, and nature may very well choose that route.

  70. "similar" is subjective, I suppose... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "...an abundance of meat-free products already on the market that taste similar to animal meats..." [citation needed]

  71. Cost? by nasch · · Score: 1

    Make meat substitutes passable (it doesn't even have to be quite as good as the real thing, though that would be best) and cheaper than meat, and it will take off. With steak being so expensive, and also so bad for the environment, that could be both an attainable goal and a big win. It's got to look appealing too though, since it's not going to be breaded or put in a bun.

  72. Nauseating radioactive gummy by AlexanKulbashian · · Score: 1

    Candy makers beat them to it. and they look tastier https://previews.123rf.com/ima...