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Start-Ups Aren't Cool Anymore (theatlantic.com)

A lack of personal savings, competition from abroad, and the threat of another economic downturn make it harder for Millennials to thrive as entrepreneurs. From a story: Research suggests entrepreneurial activity has declined among Millennials. The share of people under 30 who own a business has fallen to almost a quarter-century low, according to a 2015 Wall Street Journal analysis of Federal Reserve data. A survey of 1,200 Millennials conducted in 2016 by the Economic Innovation Group found that more Millennials believed they could have a successful career by staying at one company and attempting to climb the ladder than by founding a new one. Two years ago, EIG's president and co-founder, John Lettieri, testified before the U.S. Senate, "Millennials are on track to be the least entrepreneurial generation in recent history."

Some of the reasons have been well-documented. The romantic view of entrepreneurship involves angel investors and venture capital funds, but in fact, the ordinary entrepreneur is more likely to fund a start-up using personal savings -- something underemployed Millennials simply could not build as they entered the workforce during or in the immediate wake of the Great Recession. Funding from friends and family is the next most common source, but this personal network could not help much during the most recent economic downturn, when so much home equity was underwater. Student debt worsened the underlying economic problems. According to a report by the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, between 2004 and 2014, the number of student borrowers rose by 89 percent.

Lately, though, it seems that even those who might typically have access to other forms of funding, like venture capital, are having a hard time getting investors' attention. As Matt Krisiloff, a former director at the Y Combinator start-up accelerator in Silicon Valley, tweeted, "Start-ups are a lot less cool than they used to be." Michael Sadler, an economist at the University of Texas at Austin, is concerned about the rising concentration of start-up investment in just a few super-performing regions such as Austin, New York, and Silicon Valley. As with American politics, it appears the geography of U.S. venture capital and economic growth has become increasingly polarized.

164 comments

  1. Maybe not profitable by OffTheLip · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Start-ups are a lot less cool than they used to be.

    VC folks like to get a return on their investment and lately, tech hasn't done so well. It's business.

    1. Re:Maybe not profitable by PopeRatzzo · · Score: 1

      Who modded you insightful? What wasn't well known in the '90s is common knowledge now.

      VCs don't want a return. VCs want flop after flop so they can get their fees. They aren't the ones investing. They're the copper wire scrappers of Silicon Valley. They do billions of dollars of damage and get a few percent of the damage cost in return.

      Capitalism at its finest. Making America great once more.

    2. Re:Maybe not profitable by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      Who is going to invest huge sums of money with someone who has no proven track record of a return on investment?

      I get that people who like to go on rants about capitalism probably don't understand economics terribly well, but that is something that should be intuitively obvious if you stop to think about it for a few seconds.

    3. Re: Maybe not profitable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I'm sure that you thought you said something wise and informed, but it reads like a fucking retard's hot take on venture capitalism right after setting down the Communist Manifesto.

      I didn't even read the poster's name and knew it was one of our three resident leftist morons.

    4. Re:Maybe not profitable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So how exactly do they get their fees if the startup never turns a profit? Becoz capitalism? Or are you thinking of liquidators who are entirely different but hey that doesn't matter becoz capitalism evil.

    5. Re:Maybe not profitable by pete6677 · · Score: 1

      What other industry has anywhere nearly as good ROI as tech?

    6. Re:Maybe not profitable by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      this word 'should' sure gets used a lot in theory where actions are idealised and pristine, don't you think?

  2. Do you know who else isn't cool anymore? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    My MOM!

  3. Never have been by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And wont be. Additonally, only an idiot would work for free at a start up. Then again the world is full of gullible mellenials

    1. Re: Never have been by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Geez. Where are you that you can work for not free?

    2. Re:Never have been by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      TFW you get the gullible ones filtered into a big bucket and then totally haven't created a subset. No sir.

      The world is full of self-reinforcing belief systems. Stop congratulating yourself for having selection biases eh.

  4. And nothing of value ws lost. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "Millennials are on track to be the least entrepreneurial generation in recent history."

    Great - they might actually do something useful. Most "entrepreneurs" just buy things and re-sell them, or exploit other people's talent to make themselves rich. It's a waste of talent for young people to become "entrepreneurs", which in earlier eras we might just have called "merchants". Time to stop celebrating these people and celebrate people who actually do things, rather than just manage capital and other people's labour.

    1. Re:And nothing of value ws lost. by jellomizer · · Score: 0, Offtopic

      For most people who Buy Things and Resell them will often add some value add to the product. Such as offering it at a convent location for you to pick it up, giving services and knowledge to help pick the right product, or just have more product available so there is less shopping around.
      The biggest advertising slogans is cutting out the middle man, however the Middle Man will often protect you from going in the wrong path, or just filling out a lot more paperwork, and leads you to more liability.
      Even the Used Car Salesman is often a better person to go threw to get a used car compared to Crags List or the car on the side of the road. As his business does rely on repeat business and word of mouth. So he would offer cars that have gone threw some level of quality checks.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
  5. Young CEOs aren't cool anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    And for good reason. Someone who has experience with technology and managing people is preferable to young inexperienced corporation owners. It takes more than knowing how to manage one's finances to become a business owner.

    1. Re:Young CEOs aren't cool anymore by jellomizer · · Score: 2

      I don't think age is a major factor here. Many young people are disciplined enough to keep the books, know the product, and deal with people. But they are just as likely to screw up as an older person starting their own business. And sometimes the older person will bring along their baggage which will counteract experience. Such as yelling at employees, or just bringing a cloud of depression to a company, or just low energy. It really is 6 on one hand and half a dozen on the other.

      However the Young CEO use to be cool, because the technology was new, and it was easier to find young wiz kids who know how to program, compared to retrain an engineer with 30 years experience with electronics.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    2. Re:Young CEOs aren't cool anymore by malkavian · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Personally, I suspect age is a factor. The last decade or two has seen a lot of expansion of investment into younger entrepreneurs.. And there's been a lot of getting burned by investment into that sector.
      I'll definitely agree that a lot of young people have the discipline to keep the books, but they're very unlikely to know the finer points of how this is really going to affect them outside what textbooks say. And have far less experience in planning for the tougher times, as they've not had to account for a whole load of continuity factors (which come with experience, and seeing other people's screwups as well as your own, on someone else's dime).
      And for every person that brings along a personality trait that offsets experience, you have the younger person with the same traits without the experience, which makes a rough situation untenable.

      Back when I was setting up my first company in the '90s, I brought in a PR company to get the word around, and the quote I had then was that it was a shame I didn't have more grey in my hair, as it was a trait that was reassuring to investors, as it brought the impression of experience to the table.
      Then it became cool to have young CEOs and entrepreneurs, so the money went with the cool, and the ROI didn't quite pan out as hoped. Yes, there are young people with all the right traits for success, but experience AND traits beats traits. And given that the old cycle of 'older people getting the investment, doing a few decades and retiring' is now broken, you have the young successful people that were invested in originally starting newer ventures and being successful in the 4th, 5th, 6th try by now, and they know how to get the funding. And the ones that were successful in the first place now have the track record, and they're starting new things too, competing with the slightly younger and completely inexperienced people. From an investment point of view, you get two people asking for cash, one with a good track record for return, one completely without record, and unless there's a sure fire win in the untried, by and large, it's returning to the older behaviour of the most probable best return.

    3. Re:Young CEOs aren't cool anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I've watched offices worth of 20-something to mid-30 "rockstars" lose their shit when terminated, despite being infinitely employable.

      Why? Six figures and not one of them had any savings whatsoever.

      They all of them had damned near every goddamned shiny tech toy that came out, though, as well as bar bills that would make the Founding Fathers blush. Let's not forget the ones that just had to live in San Franshitsco, despite having to commute outside of it on a daily basis, or the ones who had more little tins of medicinal weed than a Mexican cartel.

      It might not be avocado toast, but god damn, if there isn't a serious lack of financial sense.

      But hey, let's blame boomers, for preventing us from spending responsibly when the assets necessary to build our own businesses are literally handed to us in this industry.

    4. Re: Young CEOs aren't cool anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Yeah, because the Boomers are doing soooo much better.

      Personally, I would just love for Social Security and Medicare to be paid out on a dollar-per-dollar basis. Let's see how far that $100,000 paid into Medicare over a lifetime REALLY goes in our healthcare system.

      I bet healthcare reform and calls for "socialist" reforms would happen overnight.

    5. Re: Young CEOs aren't cool anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It's a lot more than $100k paid in. Pick a number. Compound interest for 40 years. Pay that out.

      To the entire generation of boomers.

      What?! Can't afford to do that all at once? Maybe you should have voted for some different Congress critters, the kind that don't keep raiding the cookie jar, the kind that can do simple arithmetic.

    6. Re: Young CEOs aren't cool anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      That money is not invested and does not accrue interest.

    7. Re: Young CEOs aren't cool anymore by pete6677 · · Score: 1

      Boomers have had more economic opportunities than any other generation of Americans before or after them.

    8. Re:Young CEOs aren't cool anymore by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      Remember when Peter Thiel started paying people not to go to college and start their own leading edge tech enterprise fresh out of high school? So how well did that turn out? Then there is Theranos, another company funded by someone who never bothered to get their bachelor degree. Now Google, under its new management, wants to contract people without degrees as long as they pass a paper or whatever test. But with their shrinking main business why do they even need that many people to begin with? Burnout? Not interesting anymore?

    9. Re: Young CEOs aren't cool anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      BridgeAndTunnelRube

    10. Re:Young CEOs aren't cool anymore by jellomizer · · Score: 1

      I don't see this as an age issue. But an issue with education and perception of education.
      Back in the olden days most middle class jobs didn't need any education. Drop out of school in the 8th grade and get a full time job and you are good for life. High School degree was good enough to often get you a cozy white collar job. an Associates degree Low level management, Bachelors degree mid management, Masters top level management, PHD mean you were some specialist or a professor.
      What happened? Well 2 World Wars, a bunch of wars against the spread of communism. So this added the GI bill which help pay for college making it affordable for the average citizen to get a degree, and also to help avoid being drafted as students will be less likely to be drafted.
      So by the late 20th century nearly everyone had a High School degree, and many have some college. This just raised the bar, on the minimum requirements.

      Now the problem is there is a lot of talent who just isn't good for school. And we should find a way to help find such talent and bring them in. But also there is just a lot of lazy kids without the talent, and doesn't want to do do more school.

      --
      If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    11. Re:Young CEOs aren't cool anymore by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      There are a lot of professions which do not require such a high level of education. Sure. It does not mean those occupations are not important. We still need carpenters, plumbers, electricians, etc. Those people still need a high level of education to perform well, but they can learn on the job.

      It's when you claim to design a leading edge chip design with people fresh out of high school, like Peter Thiel claimed, that I start to scratch my head and consider that he's bonkers.

  6. Start-ups were not meant ot be cool. by jellomizer · · Score: 4, Insightful

    They are a high risk and long term investment.
    For every Google there are thousand failures all from energetic people who believe that they have the next big thing to change the world. If you are going to invest in a startup vs an established company, you need to get past the flash and focus on the business plan, income, and market share. Opening a Deli next to the new Amazon warehouse may bring in much more money then trying to use the latest AI and other buzzards to add synergy to the creative personal to streamline business processes, and make teens flock to it.

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:Start-ups were not meant ot be cool. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      the latest AI and other buzzards

      Don't leave your burger unattended.

  7. Even harder for those discovered to be nazi scum by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CONSEQUENCES KEN DOLL

  8. We all read too much Hacker News by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hearing the endless Stanford techbro war stories on HN just made the whole thing seem obnoxious. Tech entrepreneurship is so self-important and elitist. There are a million different businesses you can start in America that don't require a bunch of connections from Stanford and Yale (but tech is a meritocracy we promise!)

  9. Economic Downturn by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Want to know how to cause an economic downturn? Keep telling everyone that there is going to be an economic downturn.

  10. Small business is not the same thing as a startup by nealric · · Score: 4, Insightful

    The article talks about millenials as business owners, but then goes on to talk about "startups" which are not really thie same thing. When people talk about "startups", they are talking about the kinds of business that are funded by Angel investors, VC, and the like, which are formed with the hope of one day becoming a public company or being bought by one. These days, such business are usually in the tech industry or some offshoot thereof.

    But the vast majority of small-businesses are just that and always will be. We are talking about things like restaurants, dry cleaners, auto repair shops, and the like. The fact that young people aren't forming small business enterprise has little to do with anything happening in silicon valley or other tech centers.

  11. You obviously don't run a startup Kendall lol by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Thanks for the "general advice" but it's obvious that your lazy commentary was not inspired by your success in running any actual startups or anything related to it, you pathetic blathering idiot lol.

    Go back to defending Trump's latest lie, you were more believable lool. Fuck out of here fakedick wanna-be-MBA.

  12. There isn't by rsilvergun · · Score: 5, Insightful

    multiple studies have already shown that Millenials are no different than any other generation in how hard they work or what they want. The only major difference is they came of age in the 2008 market crash and that they're saddled with over $1 trillion in student loan debt.

    Every generation likes to talk about how lazy the next one is. It's a narrative pushed by our ruling class to keep us at each other's throats while they rob us blind. Along with racism and classism it's a key strategy the ruling class uses to maintain power and wealth inequality while being about 1% of the population. I really wish that here, now, in 2018 with the power of the internet, we could get a majority of people to spot this pattern and start pushing back against it.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re:There isn't by Guybrush_T · · Score: 1

      While I agree with the idea, this article was one the rare ones NOT saying anything negative about Millenials.

    2. Re:There isn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      +1 for explaining just one of the ways Kendall is a ridiculous lying nazi faggot of no value who obviously runs zero businesses.

    3. Re:There isn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1


        I really wish that here, now, in 2018 with the power of the internet, we could get a majority of people to spot this pattern and start pushing back against it.

      Largely what's happened is that the internet has allowed people to so highly differentiate themselves into different camps and tribes that nobody really wants to see anything but their own little niche.

      That, combined with an American reluctance to ever talk about Class (Everyone thinks they're middle class) and you just get shut out when you bring it up.
      Even among Occupy Wall Street this was a problem. They all had this sense of something being wrong with wealth distribution, but lack of leadership and focusing on hyper-small differences turned the whole exercise into the typical cat-herding that liberal politics often devolves into.

    4. Re:There isn't by phantomfive · · Score: 2
      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    5. Re:There isn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      multiple studies have already shown that Millenials are no different than any other generation in how hard they work or what they want. The only major difference is they came of age in the 2008 market crash and that they're saddled with over $1 trillion in student loan debt.

      One generation dealing with a market crash is another generation dealing with a market crash. Or a world war. Or a military draft. And I sure as hell don't sit around worrying about how I'm "saddled" with $20 trillion of national debt, nor does my credit score have anything to do with that, so stop with the bullshit "trillion" dollar student loan problem. The only real difference is previous generations of graduates weren't stupid enough to believe degrees in gender studies and lesbian dance theory would actually be worth the money and effort spent.

    6. Re:There isn't by Kjella · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Every generation likes to talk about how lazy the next one is. It's a narrative pushed by our ruling class to keep us at each other's throats while they rob us blind. (...) I really wish that here, now, in 2018 with the power of the internet, we could get a majority of people to spot this pattern and start pushing back against it.

      The current generation got bigger problems - no, really - and it's social media. The constant flow of perfect Instagram pictures is making everyone feel inadequate and lead to depression and burn-outs even though they drink less, smoke less, work harder, take better care of their health and is in many ways much less rebellious than in the past. Because that shit goes on social media too and there's never a cell phone camera far away. There's a huge uptick in anxiety issues that they're not good enough or cool enough, driven by a lot of superficial relationships aka Facebook "friends" and Tinder "dates". It's gotten to the point that many teens need a mental coach to unwind and allow for experimentation and failure than a chaperone and to just be themselves instead of competing in a popularity contest. Of course we had bits and pieces of that but social media has dialed it up to 11.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    7. Re:There isn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      > multiple studies have already shown that Millenials are no different than any other generation in how hard they work or what they want.

      That's contrary to almost every study I have seen. Can you cite something useful instead of restating your own beliefs as fact?

    8. Re:There isn't by nwaack · · Score: 1

      multiple studies have already shown that Millenials are no different than any other generation in how hard they work or what they want. The only major difference is they came of age in the 2008 market crash and that they're saddled with over $1 trillion in student loan debt.

      There's a big difference in what that student loan debt was USED for though. Previous generations were smart enough to realize that if you wanted a good job than you had to get a degree is something with REAL LIFE VALUE.

      Student loan debt isn't that big of a deal when you have a Computer Science degree, etc. and actually learned something that gave you value in the job candidate market. However, student loan debt becomes a BIG problem when you have a degree in SJW gender studies and have no value whatsoever to the real world.

      Millenials have a huge amount to do with the predicament they're in, but they choose to blame everyone else.

    9. Re:There isn't by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Ahoy retarded motherfucker!

      they're saddled with over $1 trillion in student loan debt.
       
      "Saddled" infers that this debt was laid on them. The fact of the matter is that they volunteered for it when they went on to get degrees that they could never hope to land a job with the kinds of payoffs to make it a worthwhile investment. Maybe they were sold a false bill of good but they in no way were "saddled" with the debt.
       
      Let's stop smooching the asses of morons who thought that they were going to make 6 digits out of the gate doing shit like web design, marketing and communications. These people are as much to blame as the bums you knew from high school that never bothered to progress in their career when they made store manager of a Burger King.

    10. Re:There isn't by Your.Master · · Score: 1

      There was one recently on slashdot: https://www.federalreserve.gov...

      More to the point, I think the affirmative claim that needs evidence is that "Millennials are different than any previous generation in how hard they work or what they want". Do you have backing for that?

    11. Re: There isn't by astrofurter · · Score: 1

      "Everyone thinks they're middle class"

      In the past, yes. But not so much anymore.

      I know a lot of people who 10 years ago would have described themselves as "middle class", but today describe themselves as "working class" or "lower middle class". Not because they dropped a level, but rather because they have new awareness & understanding of where they have always been.

      I'd say this change in class awareness is a trailing indicator of the ongoing economic collapse. But on a more optimistic note, it may also be a leading indicator of a new populist politics.

    12. Re:There isn't by suutar · · Score: 1

      Do you have a pointer to the data you're using on what percentage of millennial degrees are in which fields?

    13. Re:There isn't by nwaack · · Score: 1

      Do you have a pointer to the data you're using on what percentage of millennial degrees are in which fields?

      No, and I don't need one either. All you have to do is look at the amount of liberal arts colleges today vs. 25 years ago, or the types of majors offered at colleges today vs. 25 years ago and you'll see exactly what I'm talking about.

    14. Re:There isn't by drsquare · · Score: 1

      Of course he doesn't. Since when are boomer rants based on facts?

  13. Millenians have more than previous generations by Tokolosh · · Score: 0

    A common trope is that Millenials are poorer that previous generations. However, they have many things that earlier generations did not:

    High-efficiency homes and appliances
    Cars with many safety enhancements, lower pollution and better mileage
    Better insulated, less polluting, better constructed and safer homes
    "Green" energy supplies of fuel and electricity
    Much more recycling
    New drugs and healthcare technology
    Higher spending on schools
    Higher safety from crime and terrorism
    New government departments and agencies to look out for the public's interests.

    It should be pointed out that these benefits don't come for free, which may explain why millenials are poorer in cash terms, but richer overall. This is the choice made by society.

    --
    Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    1. Re:Millenians have more than previous generations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "However, they have many things that earlier generations did not:" -You're full of shit, home ownership is way down, crime is up compared to boomers, recycling is a joke as implemented, the government is sabotaged by the GOP,
      drugs are too expensive for most people... pretty much EVERY LAST THING YOU SAID was absolutely horseshit.

      Typical lying baby-boomer morons, lol.

    2. Re:Millenians have more than previous generations by Geoffrey.landis · · Score: 2

      Unfortunately paying for all those things, socially beneficial though they may be, means that they don't have spare cash to invest in start-ups.

      --
      http://www.geoffreylandis.com
    3. Re:Millenians have more than previous generations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Very cool and very legal
      - Baby Boomer

    4. Re: Millenians have more than previous generations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Exactly how do any of these things actually help me? I think not. Fuck off.

    5. Re:Millenians have more than previous generations by 110010001000 · · Score: 2, Funny

      Millenials own MacBooks and iPhones, not homes.

    6. Re:Millenians have more than previous generations by Tokolosh · · Score: 1

      Horsehit? That they exist? Or that they have no value?

      I shall assume that you mean that they have no value. (I did not say home ownership, I meant the homes themselves. Millenials have to stay somewhere, and ADA compliance, mandatory solar panels and high-efficiency refrigerators do not come for free)

      Anyway, if the things I listed (and many I did not) are so worthless, why do we have them? Would you rather have airbags in your car, or take the cash, like a Baby Boomer?

      --
      Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    7. Re:Millenians have more than previous generations by TigerPlish · · Score: 1

      Are you USA-ian?

      A common trope is that Millenials are poorer that previous generations. However, they have many things that earlier generations did not:

      High-efficiency homes and appliances
      Cars with many safety enhancements, lower pollution and better mileage
      Better insulated, less polluting, better constructed and safer homes
      "Green" energy supplies of fuel and electricity
      Much more recycling
      New drugs and healthcare technology
      Higher spending on schools
      Higher safety from crime and terrorism
      New government departments and agencies to look out for the public's interests.

      It should be pointed out that these benefits don't come for free, which may explain why millenials are poorer in cash terms, but richer overall. This is the choice made by society.

      None of those are explicitly for millienials. I'm far away from millienial yet I drive a fairly recent car, partake in recycling, live in a safe area, have access to the new drugs and medical techniques. Plenty of new housing around here, only I chose my 1973 home carefully, in a quieter-than-usual corner of my neighborhood.

      New government agencies? What.. Space Command or whatever Trump's Space Force is called? What new waste of money has the Feds come up with that you're speaking of?

      Higher spending in schools? Now I know you're not USA-ian. In the US schools get the short shrift and have to make do with a miserly budget.

      --
      The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.
    8. Re:Millenians have more than previous generations by Tokolosh · · Score: 1

      You are correct that Millenials are not the only ones to "benefit". However, I believe they bear the brunt of the cost consequences and corresponding drag on growth.

      New government agencies? Take a look here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... . If you start in 1973, the same age as your house, you will note the massive success called the Drug Enforcement Administration. There are many others, and we all look forward to Millenials funding the Space Force.

      Higher spending in schools? A contentious subject, but the best info I have found is here: https://www.politifact.com/vir... . As of 2015, adjusted for inflation, a 117 percent increase in federal spending per student over 30 years ago. Average NAEP scores for 17-year-olds have barely budged during the last 30 years of testing. So, more than double and you call it miserly?

      My point is that people want these things, but they have to understand that there are unintended consequences, like poor Millenials.

      --
      Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    9. Re:Millenians have more than previous generations by Tokolosh · · Score: 1

      Exactly. The democratic system has made this choice, for better of worse.

      --
      Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    10. Re:Millenians have more than previous generations by Win0ver · · Score: 1

      If you start in 1973, the same age as your house, you will note the massive success called the Drug Enforcement Administration.

      And now we now for sure you're a full of shit boomer. The DEA is overall a massive failure. The war on drugs is a massive failure.

    11. Re:Millenians have more than previous generations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Whoosh...

    12. Re:Millenians have more than previous generations by Tokolosh · · Score: 1

      From the Wikipedia I linked:

      "In 2014, the DEA spent $73,000 to eradicate marijuana plants in Utah, though they did not find a single marijuana plant. Federal documents obtained by journalist Drew Atkins detail the DEA's continuing efforts to spend upwards of $14 million per year to completely eradicate marijuana within the United States despite the government funding allocation reports showing that the Marijuana Eradication Program often leads to the discovery of no marijuana plants."

      Remember that when you call for government intervention.

      --
      Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    13. Re: Millenians have more than previous generations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Wow, cherry picking

      > As of 2015, adjusted for inflation, a 117 percent increase in federal spending per student over 30 years ago

      Even if that's true, Federal education is a very small part of the entire budget.

      Anyways, maybe it did go up... To make up for budget shortfalls in the states... The red States.

      Another item paid for by the blue states and our more sensible economy.

    14. Re: Millenians have more than previous generations by astrofurter · · Score: 1

      Hahahahahahahahahahahaha! He he he whoa-ho haha whee-he hahahahahaha!

      "democratic system" !!!

      Good one, broham, good one!

    15. Re: Millenians have more than previous generations by astrofurter · · Score: 1

      "USA-ian"

      Is that similar to a Euroturd?

    16. Re: Millenians have more than previous generations by Tokolosh · · Score: 1

      "We fought for freedom, and all we got was democracy." -- Pieter-Dirk Uys

      --
      Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    17. Re:Millenians have more than previous generations by TigerPlish · · Score: 1

      If you start in 1973, the same age as your house, you will note the massive success called the Drug Enforcement Administration.

      Oh wow, DEA 1973. Hardly a "new" agency. It's almost as old as I am. The others I can think of are nothing to be proud of. DHS? TSA? Please, fetch me my sick sack, I'm about to return my breakfast.

      The DEA and the whole war on drugs is a fail.

      And where's all this spending for schools? I certainly don't see it. Teachers are paid a pittance, schools are in disrepair.

      --
      The "Civilized World" jumped the shark ca. 1973.
    18. Re:Millenians have more than previous generations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You are correct that Millenials are not the only ones to "benefit". However, I believe they bear the brunt of the cost consequences and corresponding drag on growth.

      I think the picture is actually worse then you realize, at least in the USA. Taxes today are far more regressive then in the past, so ordinary people are paying more than their fair share for the government services (and other benefits) they are getting.

      See, for example: "Are State Taxes Becoming More Regressive?" by Nicholas Johnson and Iris J. Lav (they conclude YES, they are definitely becoming more regressive).

      Also, the ITEP study "Who Pays" concludes The vast majority of state and local tax systems are inequitable and upside-down, taking a much greater share of income from low- and middle-income families than from wealthy families.

      Even just this year the picture will start getting even more regressive, thanks to the long-standing failure of Congress to deal with the Internet sales tax issue - and the willingness of the Supreme Court to create extra demand for lots of lawyers and accountants by making all or most businesses responsible for understanding the tax codes of every jurisdiction (no conflict of interest at all there!).

      I suspect the overhead of having to deal with this extra legal complexity will have FAR more negative economic consequences than the actual amounts involved in the taxes. After all, it's well established that the tax issue is a relatively small factor in the success of Internet business.

      The recent decision - and the long term trend towards increasingly regressive taxes - are also a great way to seriously hurt public confidence in government, which will also have strong negative consequences (economic and otherwise).

      Any regressive tax can be thought of as a tax break on the rich. As such, regressive taxes pose very serious governmental ethics issues - which in turn poses very serious legal ethics issues when government judges are upholding those taxes.

      For example, associations of legal professionals make substantial campaign contributions to the politicians who select judges - and who vote on the salary of judges. Also, it seems extremely likely (given the current state of the US legal system) that a judge who establishes early in their career that they won't rock the boat on legal ethics issues will be far more likely to be selected for higher office, creating a huge conflict of interest. We may very well be seeing the result of that conflict of interest in the S Dakota vs Wayfair decision.

      How can a nation survive over the long term when there is massively unethical stuff going on in it's government, and in it's legal system?

      Millennial will bear a disproportionate share of this regressive tax burden. They'll actually get hit multiple times, having to spend more in direct taxes, and also having to pay more to support government services such as welfare. Talk about double taxation!

      Thus, fundamentally, there are two questions society needs to solve:
      1. How much do we want to pay for general social benefits?
      2. How willing are we to pay FAR more than our fair share for those benefits, as a result of ethics problems in government and in law?

    19. Re:Millenians have more than previous generations by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      New government departments and agencies to look out for the public's interests.

      That really made me laugh. You do realize who's appointing the heads of these gov't departments and agencies, right?

  14. Don't forget Monopolies by rsilvergun · · Score: 4, Insightful

    and the general consolidation of power that's been going on for about 30, 40 years now.

    I think it was Zuckerberg that made this point, but the next generation of billionaires will likely live into their 150s and be productive for most of that time. Most of the tech that keeps them living that long will be too expensive for the working class too.

    If you think it's hard to keep wealth inequality and the power gap that includes in check now wait until the aristocracy lives 30-50% longer than you and I do.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
    1. Re: Don't forget Monopolies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Maybe if the government weren't propping these bad actors up with copyright, patents, and by enforcing anticompetitive contracts, we wouldn't have this problem?

      Solution is right here people! Copyright, Patents, and Antitrust. Fix these three things!

    2. Re:Don't forget Monopolies by edi_guy · · Score: 1
      I don't think so. Paul Allen, Steve Jobs, as examples. Both had all the money and resources in the world and still died young. I feel bad for Paul Allen, but for the life of me can't understand why he didn't put something like 50% of his fortune towards a cure for Hodgkin's & non-Hodgkins lymphoma after his initial diagnosis in the 80's and again in the early 2000's.

      Can't watch the Trailblazers if you are dead. Can't look cool with an iPhoneX if you are likewise dead. Like most technololgy any big advances in medicine will be readily available to the public at some exorbitant, but not unrealistic cost.

    3. Re: Don't forget Monopolies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "...likely live into their 150s..."

      No, no they won't.

    4. Re:Don't forget Monopolies by Tablizer · · Score: 2

      and the general consolidation of power that's been going on for about 30, 40 years now.

      Between roughly 1996 and 2006, I tried 4 different dot-com start-ups. Two were big flops, and two were minor flops that hinted of promise if I had spent more time on them. But we had young kids and I thus had less time to spend on uncertain startups. One also starts thinking more practical when family comes: you need money here and now.

      I also worked for a startup. Their "pay" was partly in stock-options, which were worthless after the crash.

      There was a "wild frontier" vibe back then. Friends and colleagues discussed all kinds of "dot com" start-up ideas at lunch. We considered a dating site, real-estate catalog, custom horoscopes/fortunes, naughty chat-bots, category-specific auction sites, fee-based programming components, and so forth. There seemed to be a "first to market wins" pattern such that if you are the first in category X, then you can get enough funding and search-engine results to dominate X, or at least be bought out for millions.

      Those days are mostly gone. There are already established competitors in almost every category you can think of. Maybe some new technology will create another "mass garage-startup billionaire" era with the same feel one of these days. YouTube star? Perhaps, but that's not where most geeks feel competitive. Plus, our cats are lazy and ugly, and would rather code Python than sing and dance.

    5. Re: Don't forget Monopolies by Tokolosh · · Score: 1

      I would mod this up if I had not already commented elsewhere.

      Copyrights and patents' scope and duration are absurd, and contradict the intent of the Constitution in granting them. So I lose little sleep over my civil disobedience in pirating.

      99% of monopolies are granted, enabled and sustained by the government. If legislators did not have so much power to pick and choose winners and losers, Citizens United would be a non-issue.

      "When buying and selling is controlled by legislation, the first to be bought and sold are legislators." -- PJ O'Rourke

      --
      Prove anything by multiplying Huge Number times Tiny Number
    6. Re:Don't forget Monopolies by cheesybagel · · Score: 1

      No one, recorded (unless you accept the Bible as a valid record), has lived into his 150s. So he's basically talking out of his arse.

      The inequality in terms of lifetime actually used to be WORSE at one point. Unfortunately it has been getting worse in places like the USA again.

    7. Re:Don't forget Monopolies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Posting AC due to Mod.

      There was a National Geographic May 2013 scope where they expected babies born that year will live past 120 years en-masse.(heavily paywall 'ed)

      So some people may not be as outlandish as they sounded right now when they predicted some Global Elite - with access to infinite money and more importantly, "Secrets" that are not made public or given normal access yet - to live just(?) 20/30 years longer than the young generation......... As long as you start relatively young.

    8. Re: Don't forget Monopolies by Tablizer · · Score: 1

      Too early in the morning for a Trump impression, Bub.

  15. Re:Even harder for those discovered to be nazi scu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    CYBERSTALKING HAS CONSEQUENCES and when Ocasio-Cortez is president and passed anti-stalking laws the NSA is going to find you and put you in Gitmo like the Incel freak you are.

  16. you are all full of shit by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Qed

  17. Start ups are like Micro Breweries by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    If you're not currently involved in one yourself, you at least know someone else that is/runs their own.

    They're a dime a dozen. We're desensitized lol... of course they aren't cool anymore

  18. Re:Small business is not the same thing as a start by Junta · · Score: 1

    Yep, more that they see most small businesses are overwhelmed by big chains.

    VC may also be taking a dive, but by number of people by far more are involved in those other sorts of businesses.

    --
    XML is like violence. If it doesn't solve the problem, use more.
  19. Are you sure it isn't the threat of regulation? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Even Pelosi and Van Jones have acknowledge the booming economy.

    But who wants to navigate the horrors of regulations and government fed liabilities?

  20. Will they really though? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Small businesses require local money to be profitable. If the available local wealth is at the whim of large corporations who can wipe out the local economy on a whim and move back and boom it on a while, that gives them a lot of power in destroying or influencing the support businesses around their own.

    Your amazon example for instance: All they need to do is undercut the local deli/restaurant with their cafeteria, or make it inconvenient to pop over to the next building to buy food, say by having your belongings investing coming into or going out of the building.

    While I agree the small industry should be the lifeblood of America, to a large degree in local economies it has been eclipsed by large businesses, and unless a region still has privately owned farms and to a lesser degree resource extraction (mining, oil, etc.) it is not a self sustaining community and as a result is relying on the 'generosity' of often faceless and foreign multinationals to keep it afloat.

  21. Re:More like startups take a lot of work by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 3, Insightful

    It's not the amount of time a start-up takes, it's the risk. A start up is a long shot. You might get rich, or you might spend years going nowhere. Risks are taken by people who can afford them. Fewer people can now.

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  22. What about bureaucracy? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Starting a business isn't as simple as pursuing your ideas, you need to maneuver around licenses, zoning, patents, local government, federal governments. Remove the bullshit from creating a business and more people will create them.

    An individual or small company should be exempt from patent litigation for example.

    That way they don't need to raise a million dollars in capital to start; To Rent a building, hire a lawyer, hire file for X and Y.

  23. Startups haven't been cool since 1998 by wyattstorch516 · · Score: 2

    Anybody wanna buy some Pets.com stock?

    1. Re:Startups haven't been cool since 1998 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Sure, do you take Flooz?

    2. Re:Startups haven't been cool since 1998 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      PETZ is losing value like the best of them.

  24. Re: More like startups take a lot of work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    It's not vision that's lacking it's money.

    I still need to eat, sleep, pay for rent, etc.

    Now on top of this you think I can afford to start a big business?

    No. The money isn't there.

    I'd gladly work for $30-40K if it meant I could start a decent business (v.s. my expected $80K+), but starting a business these days means making negative pay. Which is dumb no matter how you look at it.

    Everyone wants to keep their nest egg secure. Owning a home is a first priority, starting a business comes after. Nobody wants to be out on the street because the business fails.

    The lack of ability to safely start a business without the risk of going personally bankrupt and homeless if it fails is a good discouragement towards starting a business.

  25. Startups are great by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 3, Interesting

    Startups are great, but they should have a real product, not just the latest fad app. Advice: learn a trade first, whether it's engineering, medicine, law, plumbing, electricity, or science. Then use your experience to start your own company.

    Of course, you might be a unicorn with a brilliant idea just out of high school, but don't count on it.

    1. Re:Startups are great by fat_mike · · Score: 1

      And take some basic and intermediate accounting classes. If the company takes off you'll actually be able to understand what your accountant is saying.

    2. Re:Startups are great by ljw1004 · · Score: 1

      Startups are great, but they should have a real product, not just the latest fad app. Advice: learn a trade first, whether it's engineering, medicine, law, plumbing, electricity, or science. Then use your experience to start your own company.

      Are you basing your advice on the way you think the world should work, or the way it actually seems to have been working? My impression is that the startups which produce useless terrible apps are the ones that do well in their funding rounds. I don't like it. It's just my impression.

  26. It isn't about you by nehumanuscrede · · Score: 2

    " threat of another economic downturn make it harder for Millennials to thrive as entrepreneurs. "

    Not to point out the obvious but economic downturns have a tendency to wreak havoc on everyone, not just Millennials.
    ( Welcome to the real world btw where things don't always go as expected. )

  27. Start ups are actually HARD by argStyopa · · Score: 4, Insightful

    ACTUALLY starting a business is fucking hard: You risk your OWN money* as well as a shit ton of time, sweat, and (more or less) your family, relationships, prime working years - all for something you "hope" will work.

    This is essentially what Marx got *completely* wrong, by positing "capital" just existing ex nihilo, instead of recognizing the massive amount of wealth that was invested in all those businesses that didn't succeed. By discounting the 'red in tooth and claw' investment carnage that happened so that the (current) businesses exist, one hand-waves away essentially the entire justification for why business owners are ENTITLED to make more than the downtrodden wage slaves they employ - it is that disparate result that incentivizes people to take the risk to found businesses in the first place.

    But I wouldn't say that Millennials are necessarily perceiving it wrongly; as much as that might make their elders uncomfortable. The fact is that capitalism as is practiced in the US isn't really much like capitalism; it's "capitalist" on the up side, but socialist on the down side. (When in fact, capitalism like evolution ONLY advances by the death of noncompetitive entities.) Why found a business, if every buggy-whip-maker you are putting out of business is only going to go on the federal protective dole ensuring that the poor devils never actually fail?

    If there's no ability to eliminate your competitors, there's little incentive to jump into the competition.

    *Kickstarter is bullshit - and closer to a religious donation than investment. The idea that people are sinking money is only working by the principal of distributed risk, with the interwebs making the distribution part easier; if you can convince 10 million people to each 'risk' $10 with you, that is in some ways a lower bar than getting a handful of VC funds to each invest $25 million in your idea.

    --
    -Styopa
    1. Re:Start ups are actually HARD by bigpat · · Score: 1

      I think what concerns me most about this economy is how much of it seems wrapped up in the Federal Reserve banks handing out cheap money to a select few big city banks from which it is further doled out with bankers and investors taking up the largest share until what trickles down is not nearly enough to capitalize the actual economy.

    2. Re:Start ups are actually HARD by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 2

      I'm not sure why you think business owners are (in caps) "ENTITLED to make more money". It seems like you think you demonstrated something, but instead seem to just be asserting it loudly.

      --
      Your ad here. Ask me how!
    3. Re:Start ups are actually HARD by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Welcome to QE2 ("Quantitative Easing 2"). Also known as "Fed gives money to banks so their balance-sheets can be in the black, because they are too-big-to-fail".

    4. Re:Start ups are actually HARD by Aristos+Mazer · · Score: 3, Insightful

      argStyopa started with a good post, but I agree with Actually -- there seems to be a gap in the argument about entitlement. In argStyopa's post, the claim is that owners are entitled to make more because they took the risk. But the failed entrepreneurs also took the risk. So the owners that succeed are only entitled if they succeeded by their own skill. If they succeeded by luck or by having an advantageous start, then they are not entitled. The US system recognizes that luck and advantageous start are the predominant reasons for why one business succeeds over another. And even when they succeed by their own skill, that skill is not necessarily in providing better service: the first guy who realized that "AAA Plumbing" got you a better position in the old phone book and thus made you the default choice for desperate customers was a business genius who legitimately out-competed, but he was not necessarily the best plumber.

      "Seeing a void in the market and risking capital to fill it" does (in my opinion) justify owners having greater share of the profits, but that does not appear to be the most common basis of entrepreneurial success in US society.

    5. Re:Start ups are actually HARD by alvinrod · · Score: 1

      If you own something and it increases in value, are you not entitled to that value as the owner of the asset? If not, what does it even mean to own that asset?

      I don't think the connection is difficult to make, unless your worldview very much relies on dismissing that connection.

    6. Re:Start ups are actually HARD by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      If you own something and it increases in value, are you not entitled to that value as the owner of the asset?

      What do you mean by the word "entitled"? It may sound like I'm being an ass, but there is the "entitled means have a legal right" and "entitled meaning worthy of X". (There are other definitions, but we'll ignore them). The conversation up to now seemed to focus on the second definition. And I want to know if you're trying to shift it to the first or if I'm misunderstanding.

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    7. Re:Start ups are actually HARD by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      If, accoding to the article, the prime funding sources are own capital and freinds and family, then I think it is fair to say that Marx had a very good point.

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
    8. Re:Start ups are actually HARD by Actually,+I+do+RTFA · · Score: 1

      Thanks for being more articulate than I was. I'll go further though, in the spirit of discussion. The OP never said that they were entitled to because of their skill, but risk. Heck, since frequently there are owners of the business (e.g. a VC/Angel/stockholder) aren't the ones supplying the skill, I'm not sure where your argument applies to them being entitled. And certainly there are non-owner key hires whose skill is vital.

      I think your point about failed owners is really valid - if the only criteria is risk-taking, they definitely did so as well.

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  28. Anti-competitive behavior is rampant by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's never been a worse time to start a new business: your established competitors not only have deeper pockets than you, but they also go out of their way to crush your business before it gets established. The recent trend of startups "existing to get bought out by another company" is just a sad example of perverse incentives.

    1. Re:Anti-competitive behavior is rampant by feepness · · Score: 1

      Recent trend?

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      Hint, check the aspect ratio of the above clip (4:3, not 16:9).

  29. Be careful what you ask for by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I did. And I downmodded you because you asked.

  30. AWS any effect? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Back in the day, you had to set up networks, infrastructure, servers, etc. I bet the startups that made it were the ones that could manage that part, not the ones with the best idea.

    Today, you can get all that infrastructure with a quick check to AWS (or competitors). Now you have to have a good idea to compete, not just ability to execute because nearly anyone can execute now. I personally could make an E-Bay competitor in a month, it would cost a lot, but I also doubt I would steal many of eBay's current customers. 20 years ago, I could get VC money if I showed I could set up infrastructure to do so (I personally couldn't). Today, not so impressive (now I can). VCs are more likely looking for good ideas, not people who set up servers/networks.

    Not sure if that is a major reason, but I am willing to bet it has some impact.

  31. Re:Small business is not the same thing as a start by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    The article talks about millenials as business owners, but then goes on to talk about "startups" which are not really thie same thing. When people talk about "startups", they are talking about the kinds of business that are funded by Angel investors, VC, and the like, which are formed with the hope of one day becoming a public company or being bought by one. These days, such business are usually in the tech industry or some offshoot thereof.

    But the vast majority of small-businesses are just that and always will be. We are talking about things like restaurants, dry cleaners, auto repair shops, and the like. The fact that young people aren't forming small business enterprise has little to do with anything happening in silicon valley or other tech centers.

    Excellent point... small businesses are really the engine of the economy and it does seem that the competitive landscape has made it harder to hang a plank and be able to succeed without the protection racket of a big corporation.

  32. Barbie says NO #metoo by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Barbie: No means NO. #metoo

  33. parasites killed all the hosts. Film at 11 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's not just millenials that don't have personal savings. The generation before doesn't either. So now we have 3 generations living in systemic poverty thanks to the greed of the oligarchs. Fuck them. It's not like their party is even over. Startups aren't "cool" anymore, but they are more than happy to unwind all of our oldest institutions and destroy the earth to satisfy their insatiable appetite for ever more and more wealth.

  34. How many start-ups were really start-ups? by k6mfw · · Score: 1

    Going somewhat OT but I wonder how many start-ups of back in days were really start-ups? I remember many of these "entrepreneurships" had only one customer (not in first year but year after year) such as Lockheed, Tandem Computers, Rolm, etc.

    --
    mfwright@batnet.com
  35. We live in the age of the megacorp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    There isn't a single industry that has not consolidated in the last 30 years, and that is not fully controlled by a few major players.
    You can still start a company, but the changes of becoming big and successful, or being bought out by one of the powerhouses, have greatly diminished. If you have a novel idea and found a company, the moment you appear to succeed, any of the major players will run with your idea and implement their own version.

    The days of the sleeping giant incumbents are over. They are agile giants now, they know the risks, they have seen it, and they are not going to let it happen to them.

    1. Re:We live in the age of the megacorp by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You're a few orders of magnitude off there. They are Teracorps. As in, "worth" "trillions", at least according to their casino bigscreens.

  36. Crap hourly pay by TJHook3r · · Score: 1

    Maybe millennials did the sums and realised their hourly pay was somewhat closer to burger-flippers after finishing their 100 hour weeks!

  37. Well yeah by Ryanrule · · Score: 0

    90% of boomer and genx activity is rolling up the ladder behind themselves.

  38. Startups are extremely competitive environment by misnohmer · · Score: 0

    Competitive environments are seen as discriminatory because by their very nature they discriminate against people who achieve less. If your mentality is "everyone deserves a trophy because they tried", and "it's not fair to use one's advantage, whether genetic talent of the fact that parents had time and money to school the child", of course startups are not cool.

  39. the investors are wiser now.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    ...after the dot-com crash nearly 20 years ago, they at the bare minimum will question wether they should invest any capital into comewipemyass.com or anything else the least bit questionable. They have to consider if there would be any demand for a bottom wiping concierge service, or if this service can find anybody to send out to do this task (or anything else questionable), before they write that check and send it off.

      Yes, the bar has been raised, and if your idea isn't solid and there is a pretty good chance that your business will go bust in short order, you can forget it.

    1. Re: the investors are wiser now.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      it sure didn't help things when the old dot bombs were taling the money and spending it on an extravagent office space with play rooms, coffie bars, and other luxuries, and having a 'product' that wasn't making any money yet.

    2. Re: the investors are wiser now.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It sure didn't help things when the old dot bombs were taking the money and spending it on an extravagent office space with play rooms, coffee bars, and other luxuries, and not even having a 'product' that was making money yet.

    3. Re: the investors are wiser now.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You can say that again

      You can say that again

    4. Re:the investors are wiser now.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Uhh, did you not just see that "crypto phone" startup thats shutting down after blowing through 150 mill of VC? Did you not see Theranos? Investors are just as greedy and stupid as always.

  40. Steve Jobs didn't seek medical treatment by rsilvergun · · Score: 2

    Until it was way too late. Allen got his diagnosis in 1982 and made it until 2018. He didn't die from the cancer per se, it was septic shock. Better treatments will fix that.

    Zuckerberg is young, rich, and got rich when he was young. He's going to have the advantage of several decades more advancement.

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  41. The attitude has changed. (And don't forget custom by raymorris · · Score: 1

    > I personally could make an E-Bay competitor in a month, it would cost a lot, but I also doubt I would steal many of eBay's current customers. 20 years ago, I could get VC money if I showed I could set up infrastructure to do so

    Creating similar functionality is easy. I did that 20 years ago.
    No VC would be interested in my dinky little eBay clone. Infrastructure isn't special either. You can very easily find people who know how to set up servers and such. You just have to ask a few load balancing questions in the interview to sort out the ones who know how to scale.

    What eBay has that is valuable is customers. If you have a million customers and that number is increasing every month, that's what gets investors interested.

    The article left out an obvious likely difference between this generation and people 20 years older. It actually sounds like the author may not see it because they themselves are affected. That's the entrepreneural spirit. The article basically listed excuses for why millennials can't start businesses. (Basically because they don't have much money). News flash - a large percentage of immigrants start businesses, and they don't show up with an $200,000 in their pocket. Immigrants very often come to America with nothing but a dream, a hope for the future and a burning desire for a better life. It's that dream coupled with drive to do something to achieve your dreams that characterizes and entrepreneur.

    In fact, having money, having cushy job, will *discourage* people from striking out on their own. If you're well-paid by employer and have great benefits, why leave that? It's most often when people are laid off or unable to get a job that they start their own thing.

  42. Idea: WhatGram by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    It's a mixture of WhatsApp and Instagram only it takes the best of both and leaves the rest behind...I have tons of others as well. AppleSoft, SAPFace, CiscGoo...many others.

  43. That's not what TFA is about by rsilvergun · · Score: 3, Insightful

    tech's doing just fine. The way venture capital works is you throw money at 100 businesses, 98 of them fail and you make a killing on the 2 that survive and thrive.

    The article is saying that Millennials don't want to work for start ups anymore. I don't think they ever did, it's just that the economy's finally recovered enough they've got options. Most start ups pay like crap, give you stock options to make up the difference and then either collapse leaving you with worthless options or do like that "OnLive" company did an fold the company on paper forming a new LLC and invalidating all the existing options.

    It's very, very rare that working for a start up pays off. There was a lot of that during the .com boom because it was a whole new technology. That's a once in half a century event. Millennials, like everybody else, would much rather have money in hand, a steady paycheck and several weeks of vacation than some charismatic CEO type giving them free beer in exchange for half the pay and 80 hour work weeks.

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    1. Re: That's not what TFA is about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      I hit it 7+ figures big. Twice. Plus 6 failures where I learned a lot, grew my career, met a lot of smart people.

      Or I could have been an IT shop jerk off like so many others. Cashed my $50k a year checks. Lived in a shitty apartment. And hated life.

      Startups treat smart hardworking people very well. The rest of you stay away, please. You are not fit for it. Go fix my laptop while I do better things.

    2. Re: That's not what TFA is about by Riceballsan · · Score: 2

      I invested my life savings in lottery tickets... Won, now living in a great mansion. Don't know what's wrong with you guys... clearly if it worked for me it works for everyone!

    3. Re: That's not what TFA is about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      https://xkcd.com/1827/

  44. Those Unicorns with brilliant ideas by rsilvergun · · Score: 1

    usually have rich parents to fall back on so they can go back and finish their real degree when the start up fails.

    --
    Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
  45. Millennials like paychecks by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Millennials like paychecks, especially when they aren't bouncing.

  46. Re:They have unfair competition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Creimer posted 100+ videos in a year. Here you are! A sad little fuck still pining away for his attention. Sad. Fucking sad.

  47. huh.... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "staying at one company"

    "climbing the ladder"

    what novel fucking concepts today's young people have come up with.

    i wonder what they'll come up with next? perhaps a trip to funky town? bell bottoms and platform shoes? velvet elvis?

    talk to your grandparents, and kids: your great-grandparents, they'll tell you all about the good ol' days of starting a job at minimum wage after high school, marrying their sweetheart soon after, popping out 2.3 kids and buying a fucking house *on minimum wage* while only *one person* in the household worked. staying at that job for 40 years, and loving it, and never having to worry about health care costs or other skyrocketing bills, or about not having a large enough retirement pension (before you ask 'what the fuck are those?' ask your grandparents that, too) after they retire. after their story is told, ask them why they keep voting to keep this same wonderful life away from you and your own family.

  48. No. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Each generation complains about "kids these days" with no help at all from some conspiracy on the part of the ruling class.

    People are just petty. They like to look down on the next generation. It's just how people are.

    Well, most people, anyway.

  49. How to be a start up by AHuxley · · Score: 2

    1. Study hard so you understand all the needed topics. Go full Renaissance man on all the topics needed.
    2. Read up on emerging science.
    3. Have the academic ability, time and wealth to study more.
    4. Have the skill to talk about what is emerging. Learn to talk to people and to talk to large numbers of people.
    5. The money and location to build on ideas. To buy new equipment needed.
    6. To know your own limits and know when to bing in an outside expert to clear a problem.
    7. How to create something new.
    8. To protect that creativity. Sell the brand to the world.
    8.5 Learn how to do a great interview. Have a great translator to help with international languages. Do an interview at 3 am when needed. Be nice to the person doing the interview. Know your topics and be ready for many varied questions about your past, skills, interests and product/service/brand.
    9. How to grow with your brand and when to start a new brand.
    9.5 When people report problem thank them for the report and tell them how the problem is getting fixed. Fix the problem and thank the person again telling them what was fixed and when.
    10. Teach other people how you did something really new and great.

    People don't do great:
    They are not that smart.
    That are not able to talk about their product to random people.
    Their nation has strange tax and funding laws. Starting a new business is really difficult in their nation. Laws stop people. They have no money.
    They don't protect their product.
    They don't seek the best help to get their product ready in time. Average engineers and artists working for big brands are working on the same problems too.
    Don't go to failed nations that allow all your great work to be copied by a local brand.
    Look into your workers pasts. Are they criminals? Do they have political activist friends, a political past?

    --
    Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
    1. Re:How to be a start up by kiviQr · · Score: 1

      You have to be good at sell ideas and keep trying. Once you can do that you can find people to follow you (from developer to investor). If it fails you try it again and again.

  50. commies by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    By government fiat, only rich people can raise capital, by paying lawyers a million dollars for permission to raise said capital. Poor people have the same "right". The rich bribed the government to pass these regulations so they don't have to compete with the poor.

  51. As an educator, I can say there are differences by Texmaize · · Score: 2

    As a professor, it was painfully obvious the year that "millennials" started hitting. In order to create fair exams, certain content is repeated for comparison. These provide measures to see if variation in class performance is due to baseline ability, or mistakes in test writing. At the time, we were not sure what was going on, since the millennial phenomena hadn't been described yet. All we did know is that these students were profoundly worse than the years before. They struggled with concepts, gave up when faced with difficult problems, and became irate when you did not drop everything to cater to them, on their schedule. This trend continued for several years.

    Worse, there was a growing trend of arrogance that went with this relative lack of ability. Increasingly, students began to confuse the ability to look up something on wikipedia, with actual knowledge and problem solving skill. They were also very dogmatic and intellectually uncurious. If presented with a fact that challenged their preconceptions, they would simply shut down and ignore it. I never thought that exchanging ideas at a university would no longer be in vogue.

    So, when stories of this generation began to circulate about this generation being lazy in the workplace with a sense of entitlement, I was in no way shocked. This is what I had seen in my engineering classes. To be clear, I am not saying that I had zero, bright and hardworking students. Some of the best that I had taught were in this era. What I am saying is that the proportion of academic gems to soot was very low.

    I would also be remiss not to comment about "being saddled with 1 trillion in college debt." That is classic millennial thought. I.E. a complete and total lack of personal responsibility. No one forced that generation to go to a high priced schools. Every state in the U.S. has a very good public university, which is not all that expensive. This was an option. In fact, it is one that I personally chose, so that I would not have huge, crippling debt. As a generation, millennials were remarkably short sighted and un-analytical about college. It does not take a genius to understand that spending $240,000 at an elite school to earn a degree that leads to jobs that make 30K is simply idiotic. Yet, many of millennials did just that.

    No one forced that generation to rack up this debt in trivial non-ecconomcailly viable majors. In fact, because of the internet, millennials had access to far more information about salaries and outcomes than any other generation before it. As a group, millennials simply CHOSE to ignore advice, evidence, and basic math. It is not anyone's fault but their own. Now, they need to live with the consequences of bad judgement.

    So, yes, every generation has its triumphs and flaws. Some win major world wars, some travel to the moon, and some even invent the internet. Others, well, I guess their crowning achievement is finding a way to count the number of superficial friends that they have... and wonder why they are considered lesser by those before and after them.

    --
    "Liberalism is a very noble idea, currently controlled by some very bad people. Be sure you do not get the two confused.
    1. Re:As an educator, I can say there are differences by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Every state in the U.S. has a very good public university, which is not all that expensive. This was an option. In fact, it is one that I personally chose, so that I would not have huge, crippling debt.

      The downside of course being that a less prestigious university tends to have less valuable social networks and less degree signaling power which, quite apart from any educational value, are two of the most valuable things that one can obtain at university. Given how poorly many universities prepare students today with skills that are actually marketable, this is not an insignificant consideration. The Harvard education and the Yale degree, to paraphrase John Kennedy, are still worth going into debt to receive. The degree from Anywhere State University? Not so much.

  52. Re: More like startups take a lot of work by Jastiv · · Score: 1

    staring a business might be negative pay, but so is sitting around while no company will employ you. Or worse yet, you could get a job and take it only to lose money because cost of living is more than what the job pays.

  53. Re: As an educator, I can say there are difference by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    They must need more standardized tests. We need to krank up those standardized tests!

  54. Nor by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Nor is the word cool but that doesn't stop you.

  55. maybe the learned a lesson from previous cohort? by kiviQr · · Score: 1

    There are no angles in investing - there is only a pure business where you work your ass off for pie in the sky that may never realize. The only one who benefits is owner - which is not you but your Angle Investor!

  56. Ungrateful kids by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Typical spoiled kids.

    Take away their smartphones and watch them all roll into balls, crying.

  57. Re: CONSEQUENCES ARE COMING NAZI FAGGOT KEN DOLL by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Soros-funded troll farm propaganda operators sure do love cyberstalking.

  58. Re: As an educator, I can say there are difference by astrofurter · · Score: 1

    "No one forced that generation to rack up this debt in trivial non-ecconomcailly viable majors."

    Hmm... I wonder why your generation didn't rack up so much debt? *cough* public support for higher education *cough* Hmmmmmmmmm...

  59. Re: I want to sign up for your newsletter by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Hey Commie, who -exactly- is the ruling class you refer to multiple times?

    Please provide a few names.

    And since it is a conspiracy of -the ruling class- to (lololololol) create silly names each 20 years for the next generation for the purpose of keeping us at each others throats or whatever, are the demographers and journalists who write endlessly about this stuff in on it too?

    Tin
    Foil
    Hat
    Communist
    Idiot.

  60. Re: The attitude has changed. (And don't forget cu by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Asians and white people can do what you're talking about.

    Everyone else is a bottom feeder who lives off of their achievements, and cries racism when you point it out.

  61. Re:The attitude has changed. (And don't forget cus by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    that argument about how you rationalize that some people are comfortable and wont leave their job gave me parochial grandfather cancer.

    That is to say [citation needed] etc.

  62. Re: Millenians have more than previous generation by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Oh so the blue states like mine, California, where the evil af teachers union owns the government has a great education system, great test scores and well educated population.

    Bwahaahhaahhaahahhhaahahhaahhhaa

    You are an idiot. Probably a result of public education in California.

  63. It's just work by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    As a middle aged tech lead I work at a startup with 3 generations of people. My team consists of millineals except for me. They are hard workers but not especially invested in staying at one place. Also they are more middle of the road politically than most of posters on this forum. A lot of what is being said here is more stereotype than the real world.

    Tech minded millineals with good skills have many options for employment. That is probably why fewer young people are creating startups. I struggle to bring good employees on board because they have 3 or 4 other offers. There is lots of work and it's easy to get it.

  64. All work and no play makes Jack a dull boy by Ignatius · · Score: 1

    [...] lead to depression and burn-outs because they drink less, smoke less, work harder, take better care of their health and is in many ways much less rebellious than in the past.

    fixed that for you.

    Todays Millennial lifestyle would have made dystopian sci-fi material not too long ago.

  65. That real fact is millennials aren't cool anymore by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Startups are still great for those that can actually code rather than cut-and-paste garbage.

  66. Never Cool by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    To the best of my knowledge, they were never cool to someone needing a paycheck.

    The biggest problem was that they weren't run like a business (ignoring the questionable billing/payment schedules of large corporations). Payroll wasn't done like payroll. Contractors went unpaid as was any 'person' getting money in the rears.

    Lost 2 employees that were dying to go to one. Never understood it. There was a lower chance of being rich, or having a job down the road to being unemployed. Seems kind of dumb to me. One wanted to keep his spot open as a very junior employee . . . the other majorly burned his bridges with everyone above me. The latter was *TOLD* to come and beg for his job back (by his wife) after there was too much overlap between him and an officer's job.

    I knew his wife and warned him in advance that if it fell through, it was all him. He called to tell me I was right. :/

    Like I said, never was cool.

  67. Re: The attitude has changed. (And don't forget c by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    True

  68. Start-ups by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I fear that before too long Europe will get start-ups too, just because America has them.

  69. Re:The attitude has changed. (And don't forget cus by drsquare · · Score: 1

    Your third paragraph is confusing businesses and startups. Immigrants start businesses, but usually something safe that doesn't scale. And many of them fail.

    Your fourth paragraph is contradicted by reality, most successful startup founders are from rich backgrounds. Their wealth and connections allows them to gamble on speculative startups.

  70. Are you changing my words AND redefining English? by raymorris · · Score: 1

    > Your third paragraph is confusing businesses and startups. Immigrants start businesses, but usually something safe

    So if I'm understanding you correctly, you're doing three things here to completely change the question, then asserting an answer that's still false, even after you changes the question. First, you change my words from "start a business" to "launch a start-up". Okay, I'm fine with that. Oxford Dictionary defines start-up as:

    --
    Start-up
    1.1count noun
    A newly established business.
    âproblems facing start-ups and small firms in rural areasâ(TM)
    --

    Okay, that's fine. They mean the same thing.

    Then in step 2 you redefine English to say that any fairly safe business, any wise business, isn't a newly established business - only wild gambles are start-ups. Sorry, English disagrees with you.

    > most successful startup founders are from rich backgrounds

    If you had claimed "the top three crazy start-ups that get then most press in Silicon Valley were started by rich people", you might be right. 99.999% of start-ups are not in fact Tesla. As it is, your claim isn't just wrong, it's wildly, ridiculously wrong. Hilariously wrong. For example, the *average* investment by an angel investor is $32,000. Meaning of course the founders needed to find an angel in order to get $30K, because they don't have $30K. SBIC figures show total investment by all investors of less than a million for most start-ups.

  71. Re:They have unfair competition by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    He's going to "pastebin" us a taste of our own medicine