Google CEO Admits Company Must Better Address the Spread of Conspiracy Theories on YouTube (techcrunch.com)

Google CEO Sundar Pichai admitted today that YouTube needs to do better in dealing with conspiracy content on its site that can lead to real-world violence. From a report: During his testimony on Tuesday before the House Judiciary Committee, the exec was questioned on how YouTube handles extremist content that promotes conspiracy theories like Pizzagate and, more recently, a Hillary Clinton-focused conspiracy theory dubbed Frazzledrip. According to an article in Monday's Washington Post, Frazzledrip is a variation on Pizzagate that began spreading on YouTube this spring. In a bizarre series of questions, Rep. Jamie Raskin (D-MD) asked Pichai if he knew what Frazzledrip was.

Pichai replied that he was "not aware of the specifics about it." Raskin went on to explain that the recommendation engine on YouTube has been suggesting videos that claim politicians, celebrities and other leading figures were "sexually abusing and consuming the remains of children, often in satanic rituals." He said these new conspiracist claims were echoing the discredited Pizzagate conspiracy, which two years ago led to a man firing shots into a Washington, D.C. pizzeria, in search of the children he believed were held as sex slaves by Democratic Party leaders.

Comments

Believe anything

[magarity]

that claim politicians, celebrities and other leading figures were "sexually abusing and consuming the remains of children, often in satanic rituals.

Seriously, if you think this is true then really isn't it a case of not getting your medication more than a problem with youtube?

Re:Believe anything

[Marxist Hacker 42]

It's usually more a case of not having reported being abused by somebody in the first place.

Re:Believe anything

[RedK]

A few years ago, I would have been hard pressed to believe Allison Mack of Smallville fame would be 2nd in command of a sex trafficking operation.

Yet here we are.

Re:Believe anything

[bickerdyke]

The Pizzagate claims were so ridiculous, that trying to expose or disprove it would have made anyone who tried look like a nutter himself. It's like trying to disprove the claim that gravity stopped working last thirsday between 3 and 5 pm. Where would you start when you even can't find a single person who would recall such an event? And even mentioning that would just be switched over as evidence on how powerfull the cover-up has to be if "they" manage to delete everyone's memories....

Yes, people you would need their medication posting on youtube IS a problem. But neither stopping them from posting would be an solution, nor would trying to sensibly counter them be.

Even before the internet every village had the village idiot. But they were isoplated, everyone else knew to ignore him and most important: He couldn't team up with thousands of other village's village idiots for confirmation.

Re:Believe anything

[gtall]

I think the problem is worse that you indicated. I bought the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders merely because I kept running into people who...uh...orbited around different planets than the Earth. I needed a way to understand the issues with these people. There are cases where you can say, "Yup, needs meds.". Good luck getting them to take the meds. There are many borderline disorders where meds will help but good luck getting those people on meds as well.

The biggest problem though is that most people with disorders do not just have one...think of a smorgasbord...a little of this, a little of that...and they'll take advice from the Swedish Chef before they take any from you or a medical professional...bork, bork, bork.

Re:Believe anything

[KeensMustard]

Just an FYI (which kinda makes you point) : Flat Earthers literally believe that gravity doesn't exist.

Instead:

1. The earth is accelerating 'upwards' at 9.8 m/s^2. We are held in place by the acceleration

2. Or (since this mean the earth is now moving at relativistic speeds) we are held to ground by density. That's right, density.

Re: Believe anything

[Zero__Kelvin]

Plenty of mentally I'll people would choose the doctor. You aren't Joseph Heller, so stop trying to write a sequel to Catch 22.

Wrong answer. Correct answer is

[Luckyo]

"Dear representative, surely you're not trying to apply pressure from position of governmental authority on me, the private entity in violation of my first amendment rights? Are you at all aware of the principles outlined in constitution, and why they were put there?"

Re:Wrong answer. Correct answer is

[Marxist Hacker 42]

As far as the politicians know, the Constitution was superseded by the Patriot Act in 2001.

Re:Wrong answer. Correct answer is

[Actually, I do RTFA]

"Dear representative, surely you're not trying to apply pressure from position of governmental authority on me, the private entity in violation of my first amendment rights? Are you at all aware of the principles outlined in constitution, and why they were put there?"

Leaving aside a needlessly combative tone, there are a lot of issues with that response that make it pretty dumb.

• There is no first amendment right to libel or slander, nor on inciting people to commit violent crimes
• Asking questions like "what is your company's policy on X" and "are you trying to prevent X" isn't a violation of the first amendment, even if X relates to speech.
• YouTube claims no editorial control over videos, and therefore it has no expression that would be infringed upon
• The "safe harbor" exemptions to copyright infringement enforcement that enable YouTube to function make Google's policy questions fair game

Re:Wrong answer. Correct answer is

[Actually, I do RTFA]

There is absolutely a First Amendment right to libel and slander!

Not according to the Supreme Court. For example, in NYT vs. Sullivan, the SC modified NY's libel laws because of the first amendment (demonstrating that just calling it a civil action doesn't remove it from the first amendment), but libel is still actionable (demonstrating that libel itself is not protected.) Prior restraint is a different issue, and could be used to prevent publication of a serious enough libel. But, in general, prior restraint has to be justified on a case-by-case basis.

ouTube consistently exercises editorial control over videos

I'd have to look it up, but algorithms promoting/demoting/demonetizing is not editorial control. And removing videos that violate the ToS isn't either. Again, according to the courts.

Re:Wrong answer. Correct answer is

[dcw3]

They've moved far away from being a pure content provider. When you prioritize their favorite sites, they're choosing the content that they want you to look at to make them more revenue. If it was a simple matter of providing search results based upon the most popular sites, it might be a different matter.

Or Perhaps...

[iCEBaLM]

... they should just stop trying to be the gatekeepers on speech, and let ideas live and die on their merits.

Re:Or Perhaps...

[Your.Master]

The only way to stop being the gatekeepers of speech here is to remove the search box and recommended links, and only allow people to subscribe to channels / watch videos that they can directly link to outside of their platform.

Re:Or Perhaps...

[lgw]

Google recommendations are pretty straightforward, though. If you watch X, they'll recommend what other people clicked on after watching X. It's a bit more subtle than that, but that's the essence. What you're complaining about is "clickbait works", which is a sad commentary on human nature more than anything else.

Re:Split It Off And Charge

[DaHat]

Plenty of Ancient Alien's episodes on YouTube, which come from the History Channel (which is usually legit).

Where would they go? They seem popular enough to run for 13 seasons.

Those are just innocent conspiracy theories? Ever stop to think about the racism of them? Suggesting that PoC wouldn't have been able to build the pyramids and other ancient structures on their own... but only with the help of aliens was it possible.

Re:Only Approved Conspiracy Theories Are Allowed

[dryriver]

What is bugging the hell out of the mainstream media and the companies that own and operate aforementioned media is hard-truth Youtube channels like ACFAU ("A Call For An Uprising") which uncover all sorts of craaazy-nasty stuff about Hollywood, TV producers, music artists and more that are not supposed to be known or discussed. There are "conspiracy" videos about pop stars like Beyonce and Jay-Z that easily reach 4 - 5 million views. A lot of people are beginning to realize that we do live in a very elaborately constructed media-matrix, and that the truth behind the people who control said matrix is, to put it bluntly, horrible. So no, Google should NOT censor Youtube.

Snowden revelations, then and now

[russotto]

Then: "Holy shit, the NSA is reading everything! Start encrypting more!"

Now: "The NSA is reading everything? Ridiculous! Another stupid conspiracy theory, bury it."

Re:Snowden revelations, then and now

[Actually, I do RTFA]

This is pretty much to goal of the Kremlin-backed conspiracy theories. They know the truth about X is going to come out, but they just want 50 falsehoods about X for it to get lost in.

Re:Dear moron plastic-eater Luckyo

[DaHat]

Yet.

Like it or not, at some point many of these sites are going to be regulated under "privately owned public space" type laws, or perhaps even as utilities.

I'm not calling for it, it's just an obvious result of the degree of power these companies have over so much communication, and the arbitrary nature their policies are enforced.

Make America Gullible Again

[Tablizer]

Why don't they teach critical thinking in grade school? I don't understand why there are so many gullible people in the USA who want to stay that way. Maybe preachers are spreading it, and people believe their preacher because of family/town habit? I'm very uncomfortable sharing a country with so many idiots. Large quantities of such people are dangerous. They will get us poisoned, nuked, and/or locked up in Comcast Central Prison one of these days.

Re:Make America Gullible Again

[alvinrod]

If you think people could learn critical thinking by being taught in the appropriate manner, this wouldn't be a problem. Read up on the massive number of cognitive biases that humans exhibit and some of the other literature that suggests they're baked in to the hardware as it were (and may have been beneficial at the time from an evolutionary standpoint) and you'll realize that you're dealing with a much harder problem than just adding it to the school curriculum.

Re:Make America Gullible Again

[jettoblack]

Think of it like herd immunity for vaccines. As much as I love the internet, it broke through all of the barriers that used to protect us from the spread fake news, and society hasn't yet figured out how to fix it.

There have always been lots of crazy people spread throughout society, but before the internet, your social interactions were limited to your local community groups. If you didn't want to be ostracized, you had to at least pretend to blend in with local norms. Your choice of media were limited to things like TV, radio, and newspapers which had to appeal to a geographic market rather than a particular bias or viewpoint. These factors acted like herd immunity, protecting these vulnerable crazy people and helping to contain fake news before it could spread.

Enter the internet. Every crazy and/or dishonest person can now make a direct connection with millions of vulnerable people without geographic, political, or financial barriers. Media outlets can now specialize in highly tailored viewpoints without any consideration for geographic appeal, and have to constantly out-extreme each other to maintain a shrinking slice of viewers. Instead of local social groups helping to contain the spread of misinformation, we now have a positive re-enforcement cycle: the bolder and crazier your fake news, the bigger your audience of gullible people eager to consume more and more outlandish ideas, and the faster it spreads. It's like a virus spreading rapidly through a population that lacks natural immunity.

Fucking flat-earthers and moon-landing hoaxers

[ZombieCatInABox]

Yes, please. get rid of those fucking flat-earthers and moon landing hoaxers. Seriously, they are not just people with "differing viewpoints". They are a concerted, well organized plague of trolls and con-artists who's goal if solely to flood every single channel about science, astronomy, space-exploration, etc, to infuriate people and direct them to their innane and pathetic videos, in order to generate views and ad revenue.

They are a disease, a cancer of youtube.

Re:Only Approved Conspiracy Theories Are Allowed

[dryriver]

Except of course that those "alternative" platforms will very quickly get shut down with brand new "hate speech" laws. Look what they did to everything from Torrent sites to emulated games sites.

Re:Probably just had the wrong pizza joint

[chiefcrash]

Notice the summary said "discredited" and not "disproven." Pizzagate was never investigated. Police never bothered looking into the claims. We have no idea what happened with it. It may be "discredited" in that the media claims it's false, but it's never been disproven because no one has ever seriously looked into it.

This is a bit like saying nobody has disproven my theory that you molest sea anemones by candlelight. After all, there's no evidence that it doesn't happen, and nobody has really investigated it...

Of course, there's no evidence that my theory is correct, or even enough evidence to launch an investigation, but let's not worry about that....

I have to ask though: why sea anemones?

Conspiracy theories?

[AHuxley]

Like Tiananmen Square https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...
Term limits in China?
Celebrities want their good movie reviews found and bad movie reviews banned?
Big brands want no results on their DRM efforts?
Repairing a computer is now a trade in counterfeit parts?
Time to help Spain with all results about anything to do with any Catalan declaration of independence.
Not find results about French protester?
Only find what a German government approves of politically?

Time for a real search engine again.
Removing content for the politics of NGO, nations, think tanks, European bureaucrats, faith groups, cults, celebrities will not result is a useful search product.
Users know what they enjoy search for. Provide that search service to the users and show them some ads. A search engine is not a publisher of content.

Re:Conspiracy theories?

[dryriver]

No no no... All that stuff is being done to you and me for OUR HEALTH AND WELLBEING, you see? Its for our own good! The system CARES about us. It always has. That's why they put nice stuff like DRM in our games and media discs. So WE benefit and GROW as human beings! =) (Cue the Soviet propaganda music and Red Army choir singing "Its AAALLLLL for the GOOOOOD of the PEEEEOPPPLE".)

Re:Only Approved Conspiracy Theories Are Allowed

[Tyler Durden]

Those aren't "Approved Conspiracy theories". They're just a bunch of straw men you invented to represent everyone who pisses you off.

Maybe decide if you're a platform or a publisher?

[argStyopa]

If you're a platform, then you're just the delivery device.
Of course, you'd have to stop with the fucking editing, censoring everyone that doesn't follow your religion, stop trying evangelize your creed and just serve up videos.
Hint: 2018 rewind, where was your BIGGEST SUBSCRIBER youtuber Pewdiepie?

If you're a publisher, then understand the moment you start to pick winners and losers, when you put your finger on the scales (even if it's for a cause you really really believe in!) you are now RESPONSIBLE for the message.
IMO you should lose your section 230 exemption too, then. The EFF's position that Sec 230 allows basically any modding at all is hypocritical; they would certainly change the moment someone started to censor out EFF 'freedom' posts.

Re:Only Approved Conspiracy Theories Are Allowed

[dryriver]

I'm not talking about Terms Of Service. I'm talking about sweeping "hate speech laws" - such as those Emanuel Macron is pushing for - that could be used against anyone and anything and any kind of video of text based website for just about any arbitrary reason. The European Union loves this kind of stuff - what Atheist Progressive-Socialist Europeans express is ALWAYS "love speech", and anything that deviates from it is ALWAYS "hate speech that will bring about another Hitler invasion of Europe, make children cry, bla bla bla...". TOS is not the problem. Hard laws that can be ABUSED to shut down any and all alternatives to mainstream hot air news-analysis-make-believe is the problem. Calling something your opponent or adversary posits "hate speech" is the sneakiest and easiest way to avoid a real debate. Just press the HATE SPEECH GO AWAY BUTTON and everything is great again in your Atheist Progressive-Socialist European paradise.

Re:How about things like 9/11?

[gtall]

Bingo! I talked to one of these nutters once, and that was before I read the Popular Mechanics book on 9/11 (they used real scientists and engineers rather than some guys on the internet). This fellow spouted about how the fire wasn't hot enough to melt steel. My response was that it didn't need to be hot enough to melt steel, it only needed to be hot enough to weaken steel...and that steel was under a load. It was as though I said nothing, he couldn't get his head around the fact that the fire wasn't hot enough to melt steel, hence it couldn't have brought down the buildings.

That would be fine if that's how it worked

[rsilvergun]

in practice powerful propagandists prop up bad ideas all the time.

Put another way, there is no such thing as a "Free Marketplace of Ideas" anymore than there's a free marketplace anywhere or any time. In the absence of anti-trust laws you get robber barons, but I'd hardly call a regulated economy a "free marketplace".

So you make trade offs between protecting vulnerable groups and having freedom and innovation. Google's done an alright job so far. The only folks I've seen completely deplatformed ere the ones actively encouraging violence (and no, having your ad revenue go away isn't a deplatforming...).

Re:That would be fine if that's how it worked

[dcw3]

Our anti-trust laws are in severe need of enforcement and/or reform. I'm very much a free market advocate up to the point where there's very little competition. And, that can be at the local levels...think ISP local monopolies. Without competition, you don't have a free market.

Re:Dear moron plastic-eater Luckyo

[DaHat]

I would expect such a law would require equal treatment under the 'policies' in place, as well as an abolishment of 'hate speech' rules.

Over the weekend we saw a prominent youtuber kicked off Patreon for having used a racial slur when mocking the alt-right, on a video from 10 months ago, that was on someone elses channel and was never posted to Patreon.

They week before they kicked someone off because of a *previous* association with a group which a third party has labeled a 'hate group'.

Conversely, they apparently had no problem with a popular left-leaning podcast telling viewers/listeners (rather emphatically) to kill themselves and those around them... which was posted to the site.

Up until recently a 'journalist' on the site was quite up front that they were not only seeking to start a (non political revolution, and mentioned the use of firearms to achieve it (since edited).

Re:Split It Off And Charge

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think it has anything to do with race, but the fact that nobody but them were able to accomplish such a feat in that time period.

Central/south Americans & Egyptians... not exactly white folks, long ago built great structures... yet the Europeans didn't. Apparently the ancient aliens didn't like them?

It's interesting that you brought race into it though, since the Egyptians had white slaves (although this was long before the pyramids were built).

I brought race into it to demonstrate the silliness of more 'popular' conspiracy theories, which are apparently ok. After all, what's the point of conspiracy theories if you don't make em extra crazy?

Unrelated, if you are referring to the Hebrew slaves, be careful who you say that to, as anyone on the alt-right will talk at length about how Jewish people aren't actually white. They can never quite explain how they will achieve their ethno-state and be successful keeping out Jewish people, when they can so easily blend in.

Granted, the alt-right are kind of like communists, they believe that a wave of a magic fairy wand will achieve their end goal.

Religious institution are directly opposed to it

[rsilvergun]

not all of them, but the Evangelicals are.

I'm inclined to think it has less to do with religion and more to do with the ruling class wanting to keep a lid on the working class. Too much education and critical thinking will get folks to start demanding better pay and working conditions.

Re:Ignorance

[Actually, I do RTFA]

How does a CEO of a company worth almost a trillion dollars go into a high profile meeting with the US House Judiciary Committee and _not_ already know about the things they're likely to ask about?

I guess because the hearing was not about getting answers from Pichai but more about the Senators talking.

Senators rarely speak in the House.

To answer GP, it was a question about some new conspiracy theory. If it was about pizzagate, he probably could have answered, but this could just be too damn new.

Re:Only Approved Conspiracy Theories Are Allowed

[AmiMoJo]

It's easy to rant about this stuff in ALL CAPS, but do you have any specific criticisms of the rules that Macron is proposing, for example?