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Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping x32 Support (phoronix.com)
An anonymous reader shared a report: It was just several years ago that the open-source ecosystem began supporting the x32 ABI, but already kernel developers are talking of potentially deprecating the support and for it to be ultimately removed..
[...] While the x32 support was plumbed through the Linux landscape, it really hasn't been used much. Kernel developers are now discussing the future of the x32 ABI due to the maintenance cost involved in still supporting this code but with minimal users. Linus Torvalds is in favor of sunsetting x32 and many other upstream contributors in favor of seeing it deprecated and removed.
[...] While the x32 support was plumbed through the Linux landscape, it really hasn't been used much. Kernel developers are now discussing the future of the x32 ABI due to the maintenance cost involved in still supporting this code but with minimal users. Linus Torvalds is in favor of sunsetting x32 and many other upstream contributors in favor of seeing it deprecated and removed.
Would it have hurt to include this?
The Linux x32 ABI as a reminder requires x86_64 processors and is engineered to support the modern x86_64 features but with using 32-bit pointers rather than 64-bit pointers. The x32 ABI allows for making use of the additional registers and other features of x86_64 but with just 32-bit pointers in order to provide faster performance when 64-bit pointers are unnecessary.
...except for the fact that this explanation is 25% of the four-paragraph article, and another 25% of it was already in TFS. Oops.
#naabhaprzrag, #sverubfr-000, #agi-fcbafberq, negvpyr[pynff*=' negvpyr-ary-'] { qvfcynl: abar !vzcbegnag; }
That's not what the x32 ABI is for.
That's not what x32 is. 32-bit x86 will still be supported.
"x32" is an ABI for x86-64 that uses 32-bit pointers with the x86-64 instruction set for better performance when a large address space is not needed. ;)
It's in the second paragraph in the TFA
"We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
Wrong CPU, nothing to do with 4/586s. From TFA itself:
The Linux x32 ABI as a reminder requires x86_64 processors and is engineered to support the modern x86_64 features but with using 32-bit pointers rather than 64-bit pointers. The x32 ABI allows for making use of the additional registers and other features of x86_64 but with just 32-bit pointers in order to provide faster performance when 64-bit pointers are unnecessary.
While the x32 support was plumbed through the Linux landscape, it really hasn't been used much. Kernel developers are now discussing the future of the x32 ABI due to the maintenance cost involved in still supporting this code but with minimal users.
Just don't upgrade :/
Back in the day Linus share his code with humanity, the idea was to provide a unix kernel alternative for 32bits i386 processors. This means, that whatever original code still exists in the kernel will be removed for good?
Wikipedia:
It's a 64-bit CPU thing, not a 32-bit CPU thing.
This isn't about removing x86 32 bit support as far as I can see, it's about removing 32 bit support for 64-bit processors using the x86_64 branch, it's niche and only started appearing in 2012:
details
You mean "x86" architecture, and that's not what this is about. "x32" is a feature of the Linux kernel where an application can run in a 4GB address space with all pointers being only 32 bit wide while still being in x86-64 mode and having access to all of the new instructions.
Does anyone have comments on how many apps made use of this? I know that's kind of nebulous, and a nebulous answer is fine.
This is about x32, not, x86. In short, it's about using 64-bit mode on a modern 64-bit x86 processor, but using 32-bit pointers for everything, so you get the extra registers but are limited to 4 GiB of address space. The only reason to do so is if you think you don't need the address space and your application is noticeably slowed down by wasting space on larger pointers.
There is still a lot of product in the wild using some x32 architecture, be them 486+ or whatever, with kernel 2.6, please keep it thanks!
They couldn't run the current Linux anyway. With all the GNU bloat shit, you couldn't even install it on a machine like that. You need at least four hundred gigs of RAM, several hundred terabytes of disk storage, a 5Tbps internet connection to download it, and a dedicated power station for your machines.
Why I tried installing the latest version of GNU/Linux on the Cray in my bedroom and after a week of downloading, another two weeks installing, a month of configuration, the Cray just choked on it!
And I didn't even attempt to run Gnome!
No sir! There's just no point in supporting any of today's machines. Maybe in the distant future, someone will make a computer that can run GNU/Linux, but for the time being, it's gotta be Windows.
Comment removed based on user account deletion
A 486 does not support x32.
This is talking about x32, not x86, support. While it could have been clarifies by the summary, x32 can only be used with x86_64 processors. The "architecture" uses x86's 4 byte pointers and integers with the additional registers provided by the x86_64 extension. It essentially turns the Intel ISA into a RISC-style architecture.
There are some advantages to using x86_64 processors with 32-bit pointers, like speed and smaller code size. What makes this unnecessary is the fact that storage and memory have become so cheap that it isn't required.
It allows access to the extended registers of x86_64 but with 32-bit pointers. It requires an x86_64 processor to be used.
This is entirely unrelated to the topic, but I have been wondering about it for quite some while. I'm not a native English speaker, so this is an honest question and not an attempt to make fun of something!
My understanding is that several in some way implies that something is a bit more, or took longer time, than expected. Or that it is equivalent to "quite a few".
But now and then I see the word several used as above, "It was just several years ago" or "Only several days left". Also from native English speakers.
Is that correct, and my understanding of the word wrong?
If the summary is so unclear, it is uninteresting. Why would anyone then rtfa?
Perhaps you could not be retarded and just know this?
X32 is a stupid version of 64 bit that uses 32-bit pointers.
Never understood who thought this was a good idea.
People who care about memory footprint? Linux is used in some pretty small systems, still. If you have far, far less than 4GB you not only don't need 64-bit addressing, you need to not waste 4 bytes on every pointer.
Why not just use x86? More registers (and x64 has a lot more registers) can make a real performance impact.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Linux is just loving to throw away performance features now days. No longer is it desktop ready.
Hugs for all.
It looks like you missed a verb there. Either that, or Slashdot has finally come across something everyone on Slashdot can agree is "News for Nerds." One nerd attempting to assassinate a group of nerds certainly meets every possible meaning of "News for Nerds."
How many people use it? 50? 500? I see no reason for it to exist. It's not like Open Source has too much manpower to afford supporting a queer architecture barely used by anyone.
What this needs to be viable is a good set of utilities. For starters, all the basic command line things that won't need more than 4GB anyway, like uniq, grep, ifconfig, that sort of thing. I'd probably add a "lite" libC like musl, since it'll be targeted at embedded stuff also. Do that, and you have a powerful mix at the ready for embedded support, that's perfectly fine to also use normally on the desktop. And gnu libc is hopelessly bloated anyway, could use a good cleaning.
The comment that it's a drag to support... well, make it less of a drag. That'd be good for any ABI, architecture, and so on.
Good excuse to finally work on a decent ifconfig while at it. Like the netbsd/freebsd one, that lets you do *everything* to an interface that can be done to an interface. No, the alternatives don't cut it, because they're confused in concept. ifconfig the idea is clear. ifconfig the implementation in linux sucks. The linux alternatives to ifconfig suck both in concept and in implementation, and still require that zoo of "helper" utilities that a decent ifconfig wouldn't need.
Not to mention that x32 still lets you use 64-bit native words, etc. for faster computation with the smaller memory footprint.
Get back to me when you find a "desktop" application that uses this.
See subject: Hostnames have a maxsize of 255 characters in length so by using shortstring vs. string it keeps vars on the local stack vs. the global heap (this performs closer to the CPU memory layers in L1/L2/L3/L4 caches vs. system RAM & yes, it performs faster).
Same thing is used for smallint/short vs. int var types & again - it performs FASTER.
* This is something programmers can do for "hand-optimization" but be DAMN SURE nothing you use exceeds the smaller sizes used OR you may run into problems/bugs...
APK
P.S.=> I see the point of it IF you want to get the utmost in performance out of a program - I do it myself & it works - & in a PRETTY SIMILAR way (except this sounds more like pointer-sizes to me, correct me IF I am "off/wrong" on that last part)... apk
How else will I run Linux on my SEGA Genesis?
Oh wait, x32, not 32X.
Carry on.
#DeleteFacebook
Also PC-relative addressing works in x32 mode, and that's a huge gain over i386 for position-independent code (think shared libraries and ASLR). It's supposed to help reduce the size of the working set so you don't thrash the cache as much as you would with 64-bit pointer, size_t etc. Cache miss latency is horrible on modern systems. The trouble is, there are very few libraries built for it, so you pretty much have to build your own userland before you can do anything.
Is surely to provide a better abstraction layer.
I should not have to care if x32, DEC or the Prime Radiant are supported by the kernel admins. Patches should largely just work with minimal hacking.
In turn, it should not be such hard work to maintain code. Different systems have different ways to achieve the same thing with different optimizations possible.
All of that can be stuck in helper code, well almost all, which means there is far less maintenance.
This is not esoteric wisdom, its the basis behind all abstraction layers and the arch directory.
If there's a problem, it's because the job is half done.
Remove support only if nobody is stuck without it and it's trivial for users to add if they do need it.
It's a small world and it smells funny; I'd buy another if it wasn't for the money; Take back what I paid (SoM)
It's in the second paragraph in the TFA ;)
I'd say you must be new here if you expect people to RTFA, but your UID is a respectable 4 digits...
"Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
An x64 processor is expensive, large, and power-hungry for modern "pretty small systems." If you have far, far less than 4GB, you've probably moved to 32-bit ARM.
How else will I run Linux on my SEGA Genesis?
Oh wait, x32, not 32X.
Carry on.
this is the essential slashdot post, a pure brain fart, a true demonstration of the intelligence of this scene
You can still get new laptops with 4gig
I'd say you must be new here if you expect people to RTFA, but your UID is a respectable 4 digits...
Or another way of putting it, his UID can be expressed in 11bits and is therefore obsolete and we should consider dropping support.
Too bad Trotsky-slut SJWs in FOSS are not likewise loosing kernel support. Linux usrland has been pointing with derision to their pimpish culture-whoring for years.
Here's the LKML post that kicked it off, if you don't want to click through: https://lkml.org/lkml/2018/12/10/1145
I think his point #2 is probably the most "nutty", but that really does seem like an implementation detail:
x32 support removal is the kind of thing that should be thought long and hard about, because it's the kind of thing that will be nearly impossible to put back in once it's removed. Abstraction layers and edge cases keep us (and the kernel devs) honest, and have some value even if the number of users is small. Additionally, this seems like a classic case of chicken-and-egg with a lesser-used arch variation. Perhaps actual *publicity* after it was put in 6 years ago would have helped; perhaps this story itself will prompt more use.
Hire a Linux system administrator, systems engineer,
See subject & https://linux.slashdot.org/com... on pointer size there...
APK
P.S.=> "Onwards & UPWARDS"... apk
An x64 processor is expensive, large, and power-hungry for modern "pretty small systems." If you have far, far less than 4GB, you've probably moved to 32-bit ARM.
I admire your ideal world where management chooses components rationally.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
People under severe memory constraints who need to use pointers that take up only half the space? People under severe performance constraints who can't spare the cycles to copy 64-bit pointers or do 64-bit lookups?
As far as I know their support is feature complete, outside of bugs in the toolchain/kernel.
Personally all these 'lets delete xxx feature' discussions and removals is just making the linux kernel LESS interesting, while the major fuckups and bugs in the kernel are mostly in new, stupid, overengineered code that wasn't well thought out to begin with.
x32 from everything I hear has some shortcomings, but at the same time has been the proof of concept for all the other 32 on 64 bit ABI attempts made. Furthermore if they are fucking around with the syscall interface often enough for it to affect ABI compatibility, maybe they should be taking a hard look at their own development practices instead of those of other developers.
Ah damn ok it isn't x86, I was confused...
"Science will win because it works." - Stephen Hawking
Interesting thread/article here on /. today - refreshing & back to "old-school slashdot" imo (better than POLITICAL or "SJW" articles that have been hitting this place the past year or so now)... apk
Yeah, fewer and fewer real articles between the clickbait, but those few are still interesting.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
I don't care what car you drive, or what it smells like, I don't want to lick it!
And a lot of older features in *MINOR* releases, which at this point they are apparently pushing at 10 per year, making it hard for people to keep up with features they care about. Especially if they standardize on an older stable kernel and don't bother checking the lists because all the new feature work and regressions seem full retard and they are waiting for things to stabilize again.
Personally I'm looking at what it would take to get a linux kernel fork going, CoC free, with legacy features and a a series of standardized formal ABIs versioned for new driver development and deprecation support (But at the source level never removed. If something becomes insecure but is relied upon by code which hasn't been forward ported, you keep it boxed in somewhere for that poor sod of a developer who needs to forward port other code later and needs both the original implementation and the new implementation to test against, something linux has been notorious for not supporting, which in part is responsible for some of the half baked amateurism in glibc that made it such a clusterfuck of badly implemented features over the years (certain 'leaders' didn't help, but there were flaws at both kernel and library level.)
I tend to find that oddball intermediate layers like this die off rather quickly. In terms of "when I'd heard of it" to "when its death is proposed", this one is really quite quick.
I'm surprised that x86 is still supported, let alone an oddball "64-bit processor with 32-bit pointers" hybrid setup. Surely even x86 is only more for legacy and embedded chipsets, nowadays, where I can't imagine that x32 would help at all.
Either your chip is 64-bit capable, or not. If it is, even if there are minor advantages to running it in 32-bit mode, when there is COMPLETE and total support for 64-bit mode, it seems a nonsense not to use it. If it's not, then the question is moot anyway.
It's not like ARM or Intel of old where all the previous chips used 32-bit, then they supported 64-bit but people didn't get on board with it for a while. It's people with full-64-bit support, that can run either full 64-bit or full 32-bit, but choose to use an oddball and barely-supported middle ground because... well.. they don't want to use 64-bit pointers and use a little more memory.
It's like running your 80386 in 8086 mode. It may have been useful for a short period of time in the transition when the new hardware was expensive but the old software was more expensive to replace, but it'll die off and you'll never use it again. Except, in this case, it's wanting to use the 80386 chip features in a machine, but in such a way that it can only address 1Mb of RAM. Not even "use the 80386 as an 8086" but literally "I want to use the extra processor registers but not the full 4Gb of RAM, just the first Mb".
And in an era where 64-bit hardware has been the norm for nearly 2 decades now.
You're responding to somebody who probably considers javascript a low level language.
So, just because Al Gore is wasteful in his energy consunption, the thousands of climatologists who contributed to the IPCC assessment reports must also be wrong? This is idiotic, even for you.
Please do tell what natural processes could explain the rapid warming over the past few decades. I'd like to know.
As for religion, anyone who has read your posts here knows exactly what god you worship.
Challenge accepted.
See subject: Hostnames have a maxsize of 255 characters in length so by using shortstring vs. string it keeps vars on the local stack vs. the global heap (this performs closer to the CPU memory layers in L1/L2/L3/L4 caches vs. system RAM & yes, it performs faster).
Same thing is used for smallint/short vs. int var types & again - it performs FASTER.
* This is something programmers can do for "hand-optimization" but be DAMN SURE nothing you use exceeds the smaller sizes used OR you may run into problems/bugs... compiler messages & warnings are your pal here vs. that too.
REPOSTED 2nd time to exhaust the LIMITED abused DOWNMODPOINT of an obviously OBSESSED psychotic LOON that STALKS me constantly & downmods me projecting his MENTAL issues here https://linux.slashdot.org/com... off topic.
APK
P.S.=> I see the point of it IF you want to get the utmost in performance & EFFICIENCY out of a program - I do it myself & it works - & in a PRETTY SIMILAR way (except this sounds more like pointer-sizes to me, correct me IF I am "off/wrong" on that last part (Kudos to _merlin (160982) per my "query" here now https://linux.slashdot.org/com... )... apk
Don't take the 10% advance away from me! :-/ https://t2sde.org/
See subject: They're to "further someone's agenda" ala "Climate Change" bs (which I think is natural/cyclical & mankind can't DO that much vs. it - no, doesn't HURT to try & be more efficient + "good to nature" though) - for example, take Al Gore (conman imo): He talks "save energy" but has some compound or home that BURNS like 1/2 the energy consumption where it's located (statewide) from what I've heard...
* What a HYPOCRITE conman - preaching "do as I say, NOT as I do"...
APK
P.S.=> The SCUM takes what's BEST in your as a human being civilized dutiful person & USE IT AGAINST YOU for their own greed/ends/profit (like "for the children" OR organized religion (yes, I believe in an almighty creative spirit & I think it loves us but I DO NOT BELIEVE IN MEN CREATING "GODS" TO MANIPULATE US) - which I gave up on - they use it to STIR THE MASSES to wars etc. like CHUMPS - the "opiate of the masses" alright - "thou shalt not kill" but the "CONTROLLERS" do THAT, everyday)... apk
It's pretty clear you don't understand the issues.
The Earth receives a certain amount of incoming solar radiation, called the solar constant, even though it varies over time. The Earth also radiates outgoing longwave radiation (OLR) and approximates a blackbody. The system is generally in equilibrium, where insolation equals the OLR. Hotter objects radiate more energy, and the Stefan-Boltzmann Law describes this for a blackbody. It's simple to calculate what the temperature of the Earth needs to be for the OLR (predicted by the Stefan-Boltzmann Law) to equal the amount of insolation. The Earth needs to have a global average temperature of 255K, or about -18 degrees C.
The global average temperature is actually around 288K, or roughly 15 degrees C. This is because of the greenhouse effect, in which some of the OLR is trapped by the atmosphere rather than escaping to space. To compensate for the greenhouse effect, the Earth must be hotter than 255K. That means the amount of OLR increases, so enough of it gets through the atmosphere and escapes to space to equal the amount of insolation.
If you have a stronger greenhouse effect, that means a lower proportion of the OLR radiated from the surface actually escapes to space. To compensate, the Earth must warm even more, to maintain the aforementioned equilibrium. Greenhouse gas concentrations are increasing, and most of the increase after the industrial revolution is driven by human activity. While an increase in insolation would also cause warming, and the solar constant does change over time, that's not driving the warming over the past few decades. If anything, solar output has declined slightly, but it hasn't changed that much.
So, yes, human activity is driving the warming over the past few decades. Insult me if you must, but that won't change the physics involved.
Not even. X86_64 CPUs can run x86 code just fine. There is a special abi that allows using the 64bit features in 32bit mode. Neat in theory, but almost never used in practice.
give it up ... never was and never will be.
Al Gore & conmen like him = hypocrites via "Do NOT as I do but as I say" well, PRACTICE WHAT YOU PREACH THEN, conman!
* It's THAT simple - or are you too "thick" in the skull to "get it"?
(Apparently, you are)
The ice age happened. Then the planet warmed again. The TRUE cause? Who knows but it IS a proven cycle that occurred. EAT YOUR WORDS (& does Al Gore & crew asking for money going to STOP that? No).
LASTLY You should LEARN TO READ - I said it's not a "bad thing" to be efficient & environmentally conscious here https://linux.slashdot.org/com...
APK
P.S.=> Nature wasn't kind to you in intelligence... apk
We know why you snowflakes don't like it getting warmer. You melt faster than you do already under the pressure of life.
See subject: THANK-YOU for a good laugh - that was a good one!
* :)
APK
P.S.=> Too bad this has meandered off topic but there ya are... apk
LMAO - Look @ your "ReAcTioN" - I love it ya "snowflakian being" (INFERIOR) doesn't LIKE being defied so I defy you.
* Go "Cry to MOMMY" ok - your "TaNtRuMz" have ZERO EFFECT on me & certainly won't STOP me... nothing stops me, but me (accept it, you can't).
APK
P.S.=> Lastly: I'm FAR from "complaining" (that's what you EFFETE "snowflakes" do) - I do something about it/take EFFECTIVE ACTION & get you to RUN DRY of your "downmodpoints" you abuse, easily - ESPECIALLY when I'm on topic & YOU ARE NOT snowflakian being (lol)... apk
Management choosing components should be a strong signal to find another job. Engineers should be picking components.
Hey Hey APK! How many coins did you mine today? None from me as I don't run your bit mining engine.
What on earth are you rambling about? Is there some special use case for 32-bit pointer support on a 64-bit OS that is near and dear to your heart? Or, do you not know what you are talking about?
Dear UNIDENTIFIABLE ac stalker of me: My prog's no coinminer & /. laffs @ you "snowflakians" upset you https://linux.slashdot.org/com... obviously (look @ your "ReAcTioNz" hahaha which I point out here too that got ya "a wee bit 'hot'" hehehe https://linux.slashdot.org/com... )
* I do try to EMPATHIZE w/ "your kind" (the DEFECTIVE as gweihir calls you, OR as I call you usually, JEALOUS "Lil' Jowie" do-NOTHING "not-men" INFERIOR weezils that STALK me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous etc.).
LOOK - I know "your kind" (lol) has ALWAYS "thrown tantrumz" & MOMMY repsonds just to shut you up, but it doesn't work on me - & you certainly DO NOT LIKE IT as I rather EASILY dust & DEFY you gettting you to RUN DRY of your ABUSED 'downmodpoints', lol!
APK
P.S.=> You ought to be used to it by now I'd think, having done nothing of VALUE in your WASTED existence & LOSING (it's all "your kind" is 'good' @) - I love your type! Why? 1st - you're not in my way in life (too weak/lazy/stupid), no competition & 2nd - you ALWAYS make ME look GOOD & yourself STALKING me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous like the WEEZIL you are hahaha - thanks! apk
This isn't 4GB per system, this is 4GB per process. So, for example, an x32 version of Chrome can still hog all your computer's RAM since it's a set of processes rather than just one.
So, yes, human activity is driving the warming over the past few decades. Insult me if you must, but that won't change the physics involved.
You gave a nice middle-school level Earth Science description of how global warming works, but you gave no evidence for this claim. Obviously, human activity affects the climate, the question is: just how much, exactly?
If you look a bit deeper into the science you'll find it's all about feedback loops. The amount of CO2 in our atmosphere wouldn't amount to much warming without positive feedback loops. There are also negative feedback loops, and it's all poorly understood, which is while climate science is an actual science where original work is happening. If it were all so clear, it wouldn't be a field of study.
Just to start: almost all of the greenhouse* effect comes from water vapor. The atmosphere is effectively saturated, so the key is how much water can the air hold at a given temperature. Warmer air holds more water, so positive feedback. But wait, more clouds increases the Earth's albedo, so negative feedback. This also is why no climate (or weather) model is meaningful without modeling the oceans (ocean temps matter a heck of a lot).
*"Greenhouse" effect is a stupid name. Greenhouses work by letting in light and blocking convective losses (and limiting conductive too, in anything modern). Glass trapping outgoing IR barely matters.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
See subject: I didn't post that but TRUTH always made me LMAO & you project what you do obviously (like you are now too) but it sure "got a rise" outta ya, lol - funny stuff & PROBABLY very true!
* I see you're also DRY of "downmodpoints" again (hehehe) per "yours truly" EASILY defying you & showing you WHO IS BOSS (me) as always - you're SO easily manipulated - your "tell" is that you start posting & STALKING me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous PROJECTING your own methods in false accusations my way once you are DRY of 'downmodpoints'.
(You're easier to read than a book & TWICE as simple to "get a rise" out of)
APK
P.S.=> NOW, lastly - I can't HELP IT if I am laughing @ YOU & "your kind" after I read that post (you & your FELLOW 'snowflakian beings', lol - MELTING under the pressure of life already, a little GLOBAL WARMING only accelerates it - hence your "no global warming" bs GRUBBING for shekels)... apk
We're only talking about dropping support for referencing UID 1135 directly. He can still reference it like everyone else by using the standard UID 0000001135 scheme.
One of the options for negative moderation is redundant. By definition, reposting your comments results in redundant posts. Why, then, should they not be moderated as redundant? How is it an abuse to moderate redundant posts to -1? I'd like to hear your explanation.
NPD! The CRY of the injured "ne'er-do-well" vs. their SUPERIORS (like me obviously based on your effete reaction & wasted life doing ZERO of value STALKING me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts here, JEALOUS "Lil' Jowie", hahahaha).
* You've got DELUSIONS of GRANDEUR even thinking you're QUALIFIED to issue your 'prognosis' there, Dr. Quack the WHACKO "SiDeWaLk-ShRiNk of /.", lol...
APK
P.S.=> You said I'm God here, not I (I think I quoted JOB from "The Lawnmower Man" once though admittedly but only to make a point computers are in my control SINCE I ACTUALLY CODE GOOD THINGS others like & use + yes, I've 'facetiously' albeit KIDDINGLY stressing it, called my "The LORD of HOSTS" because it fits since my program creates good hosts files & many here + 100k @ least worldwide use it as well as praise it - now YOUR KIND? Well - sits around STALKING my kind out of JEALOUS "Lil' Jowie" RAGE but it's REALLY @ yourself & you KNOW it, do-NOTHING "not man" you are, lol)... apk
People under severe memory constraints who need to use pointers that take up only half the space? People under severe performance constraints who can't spare the cycles to copy 64-bit pointers or do 64-bit lookups?
Why are said people using a 64-bit CPU in the first place, then? Let them use a 32-bit ARM CPU or something, and stop gimping the x86_64 architecture.
Because the architecture offers significant enhancements besides 64-bit pointers, and they want those enhancements without having 64-bit pointers for the reasons I stated.
You were talking about climate change and how al gore is a con man. THAT IS NOT ON TOPIC!!
I've DESTROYED YOU before, & SO BADLY you don't DARE expose YOUR registered 'lusername' to me ...
Bring it on, spammer boi.You can't touch me, and we already know that the reverse is not at all true.
Hey Ivan, welcome back!
For today's English lesson, go and look up Ms. and Miss.
Stop complaining about the summary when you don't even understand basic English. Try running it through Google Translate or something.
Modern memory-constrained systems are not x64, though. They're ARM. The type of memory constraints that x86 systems have are not at the scale that benefits from accessing half a register.
And when you're programming an embedded system that is that memory-constrained, it is perfectly normal to have sections of inline ASM. So that is what you'd do if you actually needed this.
And generally when things are that constrained you're not using linux anyways. That's the real point. People accessing half a register are running Mbed OS or FreeRTOS or something. Before you want this feature, you already switched to ARM, and you probably also then went smaller than linux.
I'm an embedded dev, and this is totally useful on any platform with 4G of memory, which is a lot of them. It is, in fact, probably the most optimal way to run an x86_64 processors on a platform that actually does not need more than 32 bits of address space. This is a non-trivial number of applications. Like, lots. There are computers beyond servers and engineering workstations ya know. Lots more. You just conveniently pretend embedded and/or purpose-built systems are designed and programmed by magic.
Just because the BOFH didn't explain their reasons, doesn't mean they were irrational. It only means you're not important enough to know. And the BOFH is probably an engineer.
This should only save space, not cycles. A 64 bit computer takes the same time to do a 64 bit or 32 bit operation. This is all about pointer size.
The same thing exists on 32 bit machines, where it is normal to support both 32 and 16 bit pointers.
The model I provided is simple but effective in explaining the impact of the greenhouse effect at a global scale. It doesn't predict how much the temperature will rise given a particular greenhouse gas concentration, but it's useful for giving a simple explanation. It's actually a simple model of the climate system at a global scale that is used in college classes on the topic. Of course, far more detailed models are discussed later in the semester.
About carbon dioxide, it's not a particularly potent greenhouse gas, but it has a very long residence time in the atmosphere compared to water vapor. That's why it matters. Methane has a relatively long residence time relative to water vapor, but is also far more potent than carbon dioxide. The residence time of these gases is important in assessing their overall effects.
Clouds are more complicated than your post describes. They do increase albedo, but they also reduce outgoing longwave radiation. On a clear, windless night with snow cover, all other things equal, it's going to be colder under clear skies rather than cloudy skies. It's important to take into account when and where the clouds occur.
As for the issue of feedbacks, positive feedbacks are primarily involve reducing the albedo and increasing the greenhouse effect. Warming due to more carbon dioxide and methane might melt snow and ice cover, resulting in a lower albedo in some areas. The warming would also, as you note, probably increase the amount of water vapor in the atmosphere. Our mitigation strategies do a pretty good job of identifying how negative feedbacks would operate. One of the feedbacks involves reducing the amount of solar radiation that is absorbed, either through scattering more of it in the atmosphere or increasing the albedo. The other obvious feedback is an increase in the rate at which greenhouse gases are removed from the atmosphere.
The climate system is metastable, otherwise a small forcing could produce runaway climate change. Instead, the climate system tends to oscillate around an equilibrium, and the negative feedbacks are large enough to restore the equilibrium if the forcing isn't too large. Otherwise, the climate system may move to a different equilibrium, and this is where tipping points are involved. Provided the climate system doesn't reach a tipping point, I suspect the current equilibrium would be restored. However, some of the processes involved operate on sufficiently long time scales that there would still be a significant disruption in the climate system. The feedbacks that restore equilibrium in the climate system are important and significant, no doubt. But if they take a long time relative to the initial forcing and positive feedbacks, that still allows for substantial climate change in the short term.
Regarding the responsibility for the recent warming, I'll offer two hypotheses: man-made greenhouse gases and changes in solar output. If the solar output is the main factor, we would expect to see solar output increase to coincide with the warming. In reality, it's remained steady, if not slightly decreasing. However, the greenhouse gases concentrations continue to increase, and do a better job of explaining the observed warming.
Where was I doing that HERE under the parent thread, on topic, you downmod hid (& I merely reposting nullifying that) https://linux.slashdot.org/com... ?
* POOR LIL' LIAR YOU, blows it again...
(You're pitiful)
APK
P.S.=> In ANOTHER spot (which only proves it's YOUR DEMENTED ASS STALKING ME AGAIN, lol) I only replied to lgw who noted it to me (as I stated I was refreshed it wasn't SJW bullshit in this article's topic again) https://linux.slashdot.org/com... & we merely MEANDERED (until YOU stepped in "climate change snowflake" - yes, we KNOW WHY you fear it getting warmer - you SNOWFLAKES already MELT under the pressure of life (lol) badly enough as is, lmao)... apk
Projecting your modus operandi again? Yes, obviously - you know what I've noticed?? You trolls' fav color HAS to be transparent!
* You're SO EASY to see thru... lmao!
APK
P.S.=> You DO know that STALKING me as you do by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous posts only PROVES you fear me, don't you? apk
We know why you snowflakes don't like it getting warmer. You'd melt faster than you do already under the pressure of life if it gets warmer!
why does some of the best tech, only get mentioned when it is beeing removed?
its self-signed ssl without a certificate authority all over again.. (aka. dnssec-dane)
but why not just merge it with x86_64?
kernel & kernel space do not need to use 32bit pointers, to support executables that does!
it could simply mmu map x32 executables & libraries/wrappers to the first 4gb of virtual memory!
personally I like the idea of running kernel and user space on different cores..
for example:
Intel: ME(quark) + x86_64,
AMD: PSP(arm) + X86_64,
Wii: (arm) + PPC,
RPI: (vc4) + ARM,
ESP32: (ulp) + Xtensa,
etc..
I'm starting to think you have a split personality and have been stalking yourself all this time.
Everyone notices you hassle me & raymorris, gweihir, SuperKendall, creimer + probably others I don't notice as much - you're nothing more than a sick in the head little pest.
APK
P.S.=> Honestly imo, the way you act? I used to think you were some DOLT I dusted here who "tried me" & failed so he stalks me all psycho-style "butthurt" but now? I think you're some lonely kid w/ nothing better to do/too much time on your hands (idle hands = the devil's workshop) - grow up, do something else w/ your life before 10-20 yrs. goes by & you find yourself doing what you're doing now - nothing & certainly NOTHING worthwhile or fulfilling... apk
Article topic isn't global warming so get on topic OR just go away pest. Best part is IF you're right? Added heat melts away snowflakes (lmao) like you, just as the joker replier said & I found extremely hilarious.
APK
P.S.=> Care to PROVE your statements on anti-semitism, bigotry etc. with proof of ME posting any of it? No?? Didn't think so (I use shekels all the time - rubbed off on my FROM my friends that are jews actually (surprise, surprise))... apk
I am still hoping for 8-bit support one day for the M6809 processor... Dang.
Honestly -- I don't know why there ever was so much movement toward x64 -- everything takes more memory..
Feedbacks are critical, yes, and we would absolutely ignore CO2 if it weren't for them. However, it's important to note that there is a hard limit on the lower bound, regardless of what's going on with the water cycle. The key effect of increasing CO2 is that it pushes the CO2-rich layer further out into space. There isn't any H2O up there, or very much else for that matter, so whatever cumulative effect it has, it cannot be occurring at the edge of space. Pushing the CO2-rich layer further out directly increases the average path length for photons exiting the Earth. This *must* cause warming, and the amount of warming can be calculated more-or-less directly. Doubling the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere *must* cause at least 3.7 W/m^2 of warming, per thermodynamics.
"You gave a nice middle-school level Earth Science description of how global warming works, but you gave no evidence for this claim."
Uhh, that was more college-level, but I'd bet you didn't attend such a high level of educational institution.
~Geologist
Those written by programmers with a clue - obviously that doesn't include you since you're clueless. Oh, also several Linux-operated pieces of hardware utilize it.
Deuces, ya ill-educated fuck.
Provided ... you do not use the C programming language.
Java has done this for a long time. Pointers only point to things that are 8 byte aligned. And you do not do pointer arithmetic just to parse a String.
What was it you said? Oh, that's right
"Article topic isn't global warming so get on topic OR just go away pest. " - apk
You're such a paranoid hypocritical weirdo
I just laughed so hard I spit coffee all over my screen: You STALK me constantly by UNIDENTIFIABLE anon & say I have issues? Please... lol!
APK
P.S.=> Everything you "advise" is ALL on & about you - i.e. - you need shrinks & are a danger to yourself.... apk
"Run, Forrest: RUN!!!" from a question https://linux.slashdot.org/com... = you...
APK
P.S.=> Now, what's that about EGO? Yours feelin' a "wee bit SHATTERED"?? Yes "Forrest"... apk
See subject & again: Care to PROVE your statements on anti-semitism, bigotry etc. & proof of ME posting it? No?? Didn't think so (I use shekels all the time - rubbed off on my FROM my friends that are jews actually (surprise, surprise)).
* You've DELUSIONS of GRANDEUR even thinking you're QUALIFIED to issue your 'prognosis' there, Dr. Quack the WHACKO "SiDeWaLk-ShRiNk of /.", lol...
APK
P.S.=> Also care to produce your license to practice psychiatric sciences w/ your degree in them too PLUS a formal diagnosis of my alleged mental condition given in a professional psychiatric environs? No, didn't think so either (YOU ARE LIBELING ME per the "Goldwater Law" you know breaking laws saying what you said PSYCHO that STALKS me all over /. constantly & YOU TRY CALL ME "CRAZY"? Please)... apk
Where'd I say that in the post you replied to? That was a DIRECT reply to lgw I was speaking to & HIS points (which were on topic to me so I replied back to his points, that's all + I was speaking to HIM, not you, so butt out WHACKO that STALKS me all over /. like the psycho you are).
* You're COMPLETELY OFF-TOPIC & butting into a conversation that didn't INVOLVE you @ all...
APK
P.S.=> You call me names libeling me w/ no proof BUT I do have proof YOU SUPPLY in you STALKING me on /. now yet again via UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous WEEZIL coward methods as always - there are LAWS against STALKING you know... apk
Take your own advice, get on topic (you off topic troll STALKING me by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous like the psycho you are).
APK
P.S.=> Consider taking your OWN advice & using it yourself, loon... apk
I'm sorry that what you learned in college is what I learned in middle school. Hope they didn't charge too much.
Regarding the responsibility for the recent warming, I'll offer two hypotheses: man-made greenhouse gases and changes in solar output. If the solar output is the main factor, we would expect to see solar output increase to coincide with the warming. In reality, it's remained steady, if not slightly decreasing. However, the greenhouse gases concentrations continue to increase, and do a better job of explaining the observed warming.
You're familiar with the ice core data from Vostok et al? The clockwork regularity of the 100k year cycle is clearly solar. And yet, 10k years ago the clock broke, and the glaciers did not return. Why not? No one knows, but solar output remaining steady is a glaring anomaly.
The past 10k years of relative climate stability are unique in the past million-ish years that we have data for. Good thing too, as it's what allowed humans to become technological.
To me, the biggest question is where would the climate be heading without human activity. Solar models are even more primitive than climate models, so no one has a clue, but it's the most important question. Glaciers are a far worse threat than warming, at least to us humans, but they're already 10k years overdue, and just maybe the Quaternary Ice Age is ending, and it's going to get a lot warmer.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
You'd think an educated man (lol, not) like you could realize you're off topic completely, topic being "Linux Kernel Developers Discuss Dropping x32 Support" - Linux, not your theories.
APK
P.S.=> GET ON TOPIC PLEASE & quit STALKING us all by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous offtopic trollings... apk
I have a laptop with a AMD64 processor and 2GB RAM - I suppose a good candidate for this. ;) )
- Does anyone know where to download a x32 ABI distro?
(live CDs and/or detailed instructions how to build your own
Thanks!
When people have been calling the AMD64 architecture 'x64', it makes perfect sense to mistake the rare 'x32' architecture for '32-bit x86'.
Yeah, I call it amd64. Both x86_64 and x64 are terrible names.
This is actually great for shitty old netbooks with the hard 2gb RAM limit. It's a real shame that distros targeting older systems aren't using this, it maximizes usefulness of lots of old hardware.
Real fucking shame it's not more widely available
For fuck's sake, read the article.
Care to PROVE you are a certified professional in "writing analysis" yourself? IS there such a degree/certification?? That's YOUR problem.
APK
P.S.=> This ought to be good for a laugh... apk
Arstechnica = losers who stalked me (as you do now anonymously unidentifiably) to NTCompatible.com & Windows IT Pro magazine forums to their public dismay in Jeremy Reimer & Jay Little + Jarrett DeAngelis (who posts here on /. until I drove his ass off too) when their websites were REMOVED by their hosting providers in Shaw Canada & CrystalTech (for both email harassing me caught on a tracking ticket + stalking me & posting lies about me on them).
Right AFTER I destroyed them both PUBLICLY @ Windows IT Pro on Exchange Servers memory being freed UNHALTING them (which tells you Exchange is HEAVILY POINTER ORIENTED linked list driven, which leads to memory fragmentation that CAN halt a serverware).
Jay Little the "self-proclaimed 'EXCHANGE EXPERT'" HAD TO CONCEDE IT from MICROSOFT'S OWN DOCUMENTATION proving it FOR me there (where they as usual stalked me AS YOU ARE NOW)
Peter Bright/Dr. Pizza (alias GOITERMAN, lol) can tell you what happened to his IRC server after that (lol).
"The great arseHOLEtechnica" (not) RUN OUT of their own server chatrooms hahaha (by "yours truly").
In effete retaliation they edited my posts & impersonated me on their little private playpen of UNDERACHIEVER losers.
APK
P.S.=> ABOVE ALL ELSE: Thanks for outing yourself as 1 of the "few, the defeated" from arseHOLEtechnica - always a pleasure exposing your lame asses (that are nothing more than do-NOTHING "ne'er-do-wells" THAT CAN'T STAND THEMSELVES for it (lol, no shit) & that you are REDUCED to STALKING ME by UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous too... lmao!)... apk
Correct lgw (used it in function/proc calls) in https://linux.slashdot.org/com... where in Windows @ least, the 32-bit version of my program had a LIMIT of 8 "register" (C++ analog to "fastcall" function/proc pointers) & the 64-bit model could have up to 16 of them!
* Yes - it makes a difference on repeatedly called functions/procs & ESPECIALLY "workhorse" ones that AFTER I "hand-profiled" my code!
(Where to profile, I do 'oldschool' methods of registering hi-res multimedia timers in my code, checking time taken in each in repeated runs, recording it & then applying register to ones that take the MOST time &/or DO THE MOST WORK (especially IF/when repeatedly called (no recursion types in this program though)).
APK
P.S.=> Interesting thread/article here on /. today - refreshing & back to "old-school slashdot" imo (better than POLITICAL or "SJW" articles that have been hitting this place the past year or so now)... apk
Its nice to see an informative post by a dedicated Slashdot fan (a rare action now a days). I ran out of mod points but I thing I would friend you instead. Thanks Misagon.