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Be it Smartwatches or Smart Speakers, It's Never Been Easier To Make Gadgets. But Only the Big Players Have the Muscle To Survive. (theguardian.com)

Why would you go with the smaller brand, faced with those offerings from tech's behemoths? Or, at the previous displays, why not just buy the cheaper models? Charles Arthur, writing for The Guardian: That's the challenge for many consumer electronics firms. Not how to make things, or how to distribute them and get them in front of potential buyers. It's how to make a profit. Out of Fitbit, GoPro, Parrot and Sonos -- each operating in different parts of the consumer electronics business -- only the latter made an operating profit in the last financial quarter, and all four have made a cumulative operating loss so far this year. Making a profit in hardware has always been difficult. By contrast, in software, all the significant costs are in development; reproduction and distribution are trivial -- a digital copy is perfect, and the internet will transport 0s and 1s anywhere, effectively for free. If your product is free and ad-supported, you don't even need anti-piracy measures; you want people to copy it and use it. Software companies typically have gross margins of around 80%, and operating profits of 40% or so.

In hardware, though, the world now seems full of companies living by the Amazon founder Jeff Bezos's mantra that "your [profit] margin is my opportunity". Indeed, Amazon is one of the reasons why long-term profit is more elusive: it provides a means for small startups to distribute products without formal warehousing arrangements, and compete with bigger businesses at lower cost. That, together with the rise of a gigantic electronic manufacturing capability in the southern Chinese city of Shenzhen, about an hour's drive north of Hong Kong, has made the modern hardware business one where only those with huge reserves of capital and brand recognition can hope to thrive.

72 of 116 comments (clear)

  1. Waiting for an exploitable halt-catch-fire bug by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    How soon before there is a widely exploited bug that can put smart speakers or other devices in a state where they catch fire or do other real damage to themselves and things around them?

    If you google "halt and catch fire" you will see a history of devices that could, through software, be made to catch fire, move in unintended ways that would hurt other things or people, or simply wear themselves out sooner than intended. Think old-school monitors with flyback transformers, impact printers or anything else with moving parts, or even some variable-speed chips.

    In a well-designed device that isn't a robot, the worst thing that SHOULD happen is that a safety fuse blows and the device turns off until it is manually reset. But if the device has moving parts or is intended to navigate around other devices, like a smart car or drone, widely exploiting a bug could do real damage worldwide.

    1. Re:Waiting for an exploitable halt-catch-fire bug by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Do the wall warts powering smart spy-speakers even put out enough power to set anything on fire?

    2. Re:Waiting for an exploitable halt-catch-fire bug by ctilsie242 · · Score: 1

      It wouldn't do anything bad for the makers of those devices. In fact, a HCF instruction would be a boon:

      1: Everyone would buy a v2.0 of their smart whatzit, when they are told that their existing one can't be fixed or upgraded.
      2: If they catch fire, that's their problem. They clicked on the EULA and now have to deal with arbitrators paid by the company.
      3: If a ton of devices catch fire, the C-levels short their stock before the announcement, then make their local shipwrights happy with new yachts.
      4: Even if the smart whatzit is not bought from brand "A", someone will buy it from brand "B", so the IoT industry benefits as a whole from insecurity.

    3. Re:Waiting for an exploitable halt-catch-fire bug by goose-incarnated · · Score: 1

      Do the wall warts powering smart spy-speakers even put out enough power to set anything on fire?

      500mA is more than enough to start a fire with small enough resistance and some flammable material.

      --
      I'm a minority race. Save your vitriol for white people.
  2. Baloney by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

    If you have good useful hardware you will survive and beat the big tech companies. The problem is that these gadgets are just junk and rely on fads. Eventually you run out of people to sell to and your market is saturated. Only a small percentage of people want a drone, or a fitbit, an action camera, or a $60k+ electric vehicle (like Tesla found out), or a $1000+ phone (as Apple is finding out). There isn't an infinite market of consumers out there with excess money. Once the fad is over you have saturated your market.

    1. Re:Baloney by Luthair · · Score: 1

      I'm not sure its that simple, specifically "Smart" Speakers rely on the ecosystem. Even if you could manufacture a great speaker with a profit margin you're never going to be successful because you need to be able to tie into existing services otherwise its pointless.

    2. Re:Baloney by hawguy · · Score: 1

      If you have good useful hardware you will survive and beat the big tech companies. The problem is that these gadgets are just junk and rely on fads. Eventually you run out of people to sell to and your market is saturated. Only a small percentage of people want a drone, or a fitbit, an action camera, or a $60k+ electric vehicle (like Tesla found out), or a $1000+ phone (as Apple is finding out). There isn't an infinite market of consumers out there with excess money. Once the fad is over you have saturated your market.

      Which is why companies try so hard to innovate and come up with new technology, though even that can't keep going forever, Apple hit that innovation wall with the last iPhone, which was mostly just a more expensive version of the previous one.

      There are still a few features that could be added to fitness trackers that would make people want to upgrade -- like cellular capability without being tethered to a phone (even sms-only would be useful), pulse-ox sensors, EKG sensors. Plus, the tiny battery with inability to swap it out guarantees 2 - 3 year obsolesce.

    3. Re:Baloney by gurps_npc · · Score: 2

      Wrong. The problem is not poor quality or fads, it is copycats.

      Amazon's working principles make it VERY easy to find a good selling, patent protected product and copy them, selling via multiple amazon accounts. As the patent holders slowly shut down each of your copy cat accounts, they lose all their profit and eventually give up, as it costs them more to shut your accounts down then they gain in profit.

      Amazon itself encourages this because they demand low prices, so you can't be the high quality product. Often, Amazon itself will sell the copy cats as the original,because they consolidate products sold under the same product name in their warehouses. This puts poor quality crap under YOUR brand name, even if you the actual manufacturer has a high quality product, destroying your reputation.

      Amazon's working principles of low price rather than high quality, along with a rather lackadasical attempt to protect patent rights is the cause of the problem, not actual low quality from innovative inventors.

      --
      excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    4. Re:Baloney by phantomfive · · Score: 1

      If you have good useful hardware you will survive and beat the big tech companies

      You can also say that with Kickstarter and 3D printing, it's never been easier to sell niche hardware. There are so many more types of hardware available now compared to 20 years ago.

      --
      "First they came for the slanderers and i said nothing."
    5. Re:Baloney by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      I didn't say anything about "poor quality". Everything listed (GoPro, Parrot, etc) were FADS. They are just gadgets that are cool for a while and a lot of people with excess cash buy them, but eventually everyone who wants/can afford one, has one already. Copy cats are for people who couldn't afford the original and has little effect.

    6. Re:Baloney by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      Add all the features you want, but once the fad is over, it is over. Fitness trackers are a definite fad.

    7. Re:Baloney by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      It definitely is easier. My point is if you make good hardware you will survive, no matter what the big tech companies do. In fact the big tech companies eventually drop out of markets once the profit margin drops or they aren't selling enough.

    8. Re:Baloney by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Unless the US insurafilth mandate them for "discounts" on health insurance (read: not being penalized $200+ per month).

    9. Re:Baloney by pgmrdlm · · Score: 1

      Add all the features you want, but once the fad is over, it is over. Fitness trackers are a definite fad.

      Especially sense most smart phones can do what fitness trackers do. Either they are already installed with these features(Samsung has it, LG has it) or you can download the apps for free.

      --
      Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
    10. Re:Baloney by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      I'd go the other direction. Make it JUST a watch and fitness tracker, no radio. Use a custom low-power chip to track steps and grab a pulse rate once ever 60 seconds; have the entire thing be powered by a replaceable watch battery. Garmin VivoFIT comes pretty close to this ideal.

    11. Re:Baloney by Luthair · · Score: 1

      Add all the features you want, but once the fad is over, it is over. Fitness trackers are a definite fad.

      Until there is a silver bullet for weight loss I doubt it. Just look at the perpetual emergence of diets based on bogus principles.

    12. Re:Baloney by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      They can't continuously monitor pulse rate and pulse oximetry. As far as step tracking, step trackers have existed for ages -- mechanical pedometers.

    13. Re:Baloney by xanthos · · Score: 2

      You seem to be implying that the speaker manufacturers are paying for the privilege of including Spotify, Pandora, Amazon Music, et. al. as streaming options. While admittedly I don't know the internal business arrangements, It is probably more likely that the manufacturers get the access for free since these services have an ad based and/or subscription based model that is independent of the device consuming the service. Either that or the streaming services are actually paying the hardware manufacturers to be included.

      --
      Average Intelligence is a Scary Thing
    14. Re:Baloney by Drethon · · Score: 1

      If you have good useful hardware you will survive and beat the big tech companies. The problem is that these gadgets are just junk and rely on fads. Eventually you run out of people to sell to and your market is saturated. Only a small percentage of people want a drone, or a fitbit, an action camera, or a $60k+ electric vehicle (like Tesla found out), or a $1000+ phone (as Apple is finding out). There isn't an infinite market of consumers out there with excess money. Once the fad is over you have saturated your market.

      Things like smartwatches have great ideas that can be very useful. But for $400, I've got plenty of alternatives to what the smartwatch would do for a lower price. Plus a purchase that high for me needs to be something particularly special, or something I will use just about daily. My use of a smartwatch would happen a couple times a month perhaps.

      So yeah, cost much higher than value makes it a fad to me. And this is what seems like the most useful smart device (other than a phone) to me.

    15. Re:Baloney by ctilsie242 · · Score: 2

      Or employers demand them, as it lowers their premiums.

    16. Re:Baloney by ctilsie242 · · Score: 1

      That would be great, but device makers make just as much money, if not more, selling every single bit of info the device can snarf up, be it your heartrate, location, or whatever. In fact, last time I talked with a VC, no constant metadata/analytics/telemetry, no funding, when it came to IoT devices.

    17. Re:Baloney by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      That too -- Americans are way too accepting of authoritarian bullshit when it comes from private businesses. The French have the right idea: pitchforks, torches, barricades, and yellow vests.

    18. Re:Baloney by Woeful+Countenance · · Score: 1

      Make it JUST a watch and fitness tracker, no radio. ... have the entire thing be powered by a replaceable watch battery.

      I bought two Polar heart-rate monitors in 1998 that were very much like that. I'd buy more of them if I could. My biggest complaint about most current HRM devices is that the only way to get the data out is to upload it to a Web site owned and operated by the manufacturer. I prefer to keep my data to myself.

    19. Re:Baloney by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Yep, the only good VC is one who has cancer. Just like Lloyd Blankfein is a good banker -- hope his leukemia eats him alive.

    20. Re:Baloney by gurps_npc · · Score: 1

      That is bullshit. The copycats do not say they are copycats, they pretend to be original inventions. Normal people do not know which is the 'original microwave popcorn popper", When they look for such a device they find:

      The Original HOTPOP Microwave Popcorn Popper, Silicone Popcorn Maker, Collapsible Bowl BPA Free & Dishwasher Safe (Red)
      by HOTPOP

      The Original Delizioso Microwave Popcorn Popper, 4 Popcorn Cups and Popcorn Recipes E-BOOK Included, Collapsible Bowl, FDA Approved, No BPA (Red)
      by Delizioso

      The Original Salbree Microwave Popcorn Popper with Lid, Silicone Popcorn Maker, Collapsible Bowl BPA Free - 14 Colors Available (Red)

      They can only differentiate based on price, they don't know is the real original, and which is the copycat. They go for the cheapest, and buy a copycat,not knowing that for less than $1 more they get the higher quality, actual invention from the guy that thought it up.

      --
      excitingthingstodo.blogspot.com
    21. Re:Baloney by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      And if you pick something that has a small enough niche, the big tech companies will never even bother you.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    22. Re:Baloney by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      There are a bunch of cheapie Chinese fitness tracker bands that only talk to a phone app which doesn't require account creation via Bluetooth. I don't think they even have the infrastructure to collect data. A "MyEpads" band is an example of this type of device, available for under $10.

    23. Re:Baloney by XxtraLarGe · · Score: 1

      The French have the right idea: pitchforks, torches, barricades, and yellow vests.

      They did that here too, but they got called alarmist, conspiracy theorists, kooks & racists. Some of them may have been some or all of those things, but they were only the fringes of a fringe movement.

      --
      Taking guns away from the 99% gives the 1% 100% of the power.
    24. Re:Baloney by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      People who are interested know the difference between a GoPro and a knock off. Gopro isn't losing money because people are accidentally buying the knockoffs (or even knowingly). The market for action cameras is saturated, and everyone who wants a Gopro already has one. In addition the fad is over, so there aren't new people looking to buy.

    25. Re:Baloney by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      The Tea Party was co-opted by corporate interests who wanted deregulation. I'm thinking more like Occupy Wall Street plus the Tea Party, on steroids.

    26. Re:Baloney by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 1

      If you have good useful hardware you will survive and beat the big tech companies.

      Not really - Because if you have "good useful hardware" (but not the economies of scale that the big tech companies have) you will have to charge more than your competitors, which puts you at a disadvantage right out of the gate.

      Yes, companies like Apple can charge a premium for good hardware, but they're an exception, not the rule.

      That's why the market today is well-known brands (Nest Labs [Google], Logitech) and cheap gadgets.

    27. Re:Baloney by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      There's no silver bullet for weight loss, but there is one for getting a healthy amount of exercise. Live within 2 miles of work, walk to/from work. That gets you up to about 4 miles a day (8000 steps). Another mile of day-to-day activity and you're up to 10,000.

    28. Re:Baloney by Etcetera · · Score: 1

      Sadly, my concern there is that I probably can't trust the app. Especially if it's Chinese.

      There's a "non-cloud" 2-way pet camera I picked up on the cheap, but the phone app it connects to requests every permission under the sun. No thanks. I'd actually prefer it to run a small embedded web server since at least then I could FW it off and be aware of what on net might be able to reach it. With an app on my phone, the risk gets just that much bigger.

    29. Re:Baloney by pgmrdlm · · Score: 1

      Smart watches can monitor the heart rate constantly, which are tied to the smart phones. As much as I HATE apple, https://www.cnet.com/news/appl.... Others will follow.
      Myself, nope. I like my Citizens watch, so I will most likely stay with it. I know they also have a smart watch. Maybe someday.
      Just saying. Everyone has their phone with them. More and more people are buying the watch(god, please don't let me give in). They offer everything a fit and other health gadgets have.

      --
      Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
    30. Re:Baloney by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      A "smart watch" and a fitness tracker are essentially the same fuckin' thing, with slightly different software. I was lumping the two into the same bin.

    31. Re:Baloney by pgmrdlm · · Score: 1

      Fitness trackers are specific purpose unit Smart watches are not.

      --
      Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
    32. Re:Baloney by hawguy · · Score: 3, Informative

      Here is the interesting thing. If you convert Euros to dollars and liters to US gallons, Californians are paying more for diesel and gas (petrol) than the French are, and the citizens of the state are asking for still higher fuel taxes.

      It's less interesting if you post the actual facts instead of making "facts" up, Mr Trump:

      Gas price in San Francisco: $3.39

      At 3.78 liters in a gallon, that's $0.89/liter.

      At today's exchange rate, a Euro is worth $1.13, so $0.89 is 0.78 EUR

      In France, the December price is 1.42 EUR. There are only a few counties where gas is cheaper than what californian's pay: . Russia, Belarus, and Azerbaijan.

      Or, to convert in the other direction the French are paying $6.06/gallon for gas.

    33. Re:Baloney by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Gas is $0.89/liter CDN in Alberta, Canada right now. That 30% cheaper than $0.89/liter USD in California. However, it just got that cheap recently.

    34. Re:Baloney by hawguy · · Score: 1

      Fitness trackers are specific purpose unit Smart watches are not.

      Where do you draw the line? I have a Garmin fitness tracker with a touchscreen that can run downloaded widgets and display notifications from my smart phone. Is that a fitness tracker or a smart watch?

    35. Re: Baloney by hawguy · · Score: 1

      Keto would like to have a word wit u.

      The silver bullet consulted with Keto and determined that Keto is no silver bullet.

    36. Re:Baloney by hawguy · · Score: 1

      There's no silver bullet for weight loss, but there is one for getting a healthy amount of exercise. Live within 2 miles of work, walk to/from work. That gets you up to about 4 miles a day (8000 steps). Another mile of day-to-day activity and you're up to 10,000.

      Even if you live farther away and/or drive to work, there are lots of ways to get exercise. Like, instead of parking next to your office you can park farther away, like in a separate building then walk the rest of the way to work.

      Or ride your bike to work (some days or every day). If you live too far for a reasonable bike commute, then drive part way and bike from there. I have a 15+ mile commute which is more than I want to do both ways every day, so on days my wife goes in to the office,I ride in with her with my bike and then bike home. The buses here have bike racks, so I could ride in on the bus and then bike home.

      If you ride the bus, it's easy to get in some walking -- when I take the bus, I usually get out of the bus about 2 miles before my house and walk the rest of the way.

      People have lots of excuses for why they can't get exercise, they need to look for excuses for why they *can* get exercise, which takes more work.

    37. Re:Baloney by _Sharp'r_ · · Score: 1

      SF is one of the most expensive places in the country for gas. The current national average is $2.25/gallon (Or 0.779 CDN $/Litre), with some parts of the country as low as $1.80/gallon.

      --
      The party of stupid and the party of evil get together and do something both stupid and evil, then call it bipartisan.
    38. Re:Baloney by Kielistic · · Score: 1

      Fossil (and other manufactures) make what they are calling "hybrid" smartwatches. They are exactly what you are saying except they do have a bluetooth radio. They claim year long battery life with their built in (replaceable) battery though.

    39. Re:Baloney by pgmrdlm · · Score: 1

      I would consider that a low end smart watch. How about Apples Watch, which now can do heart monitoring. Fitness tracker or smart watch? Probably wrong here, but I would define a fitness tracker that only is used for exercise and health(fitness). Smart watch, that and much more.

      --
      Anonymous comments are as pathetic as the anonymous "sources" that contaminate gutless journalism from the New York Time
  3. Software as a Service. by jellomizer · · Score: 1

    It isn't so much about the device, it is about the Software service infrastructure behind it.
    Companies are not doing the IBM Mistake which allowed Microsoft to Dominate the PC Market. They are being careful who they license too and have stricter guidelines on who and what can use their software and their section of the cloud.

    Back in the late 1980's I could be a White Box PC maker and compete against the likes of Gateway and Dell. I would just need to get all the Case, Power supply, motherboard, CPU, Graphics board, IO Controller Board, Drives... And slap in a $60 MS DOS Install. I would be able to put them all together. Add 20% to my expenses and still be competitive in price with the big boys.

    Today. I can make the device. However I will need to negotiate with Amazon, Google, Microsoft, Apple to see If I can access their cloud to use the service. Being that I want to make money off making a product competing against their own, it will not be cheap, and I wouldn't be able to make profit off of it.
     

    --
    If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
    1. Re:Software as a Service. by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      Or continue posting as a fake anonymous coward who keeps linking to his youtube channel under a thin disguise of mockery.

      I miss the old slashdot trolls. What happened to the moocow guy?

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
  4. To Much by zippo01 · · Score: 4, Informative

    As I get older the shiny tech edge gets not only less attractive but off putting. I don't want/need light bulbs with WiFi, I don't want my thermostat connected to the internet. Why does anyone need a washer, dry or refrigerator connected to anything but power and water? Why not get cameras all over the house, so people all over the world can watch you and your family. This extends to everything. Hey, buy a car only highly specialized and expensive people can work on! Rebuy all the media you already own, because we have a new format that isn't any better, just different! Hey we no longer have a working web page, download our app that has less functionality but might spy on you, it'll be a big surprise. Its just more to worry about, more to deal with, and I'm an electrical controls engineer! I would imagine most new tech is only used to a small fraction of its capability, because most people don't care or want to put the effort in. The move complex/connected something is, the less reliable, and harder to understand the ramifications and risks of owner ship..

    1. Re:To Much by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 2

      What if those cameras are on your internal network and talking to a Raspberry Pi based DVR inside a box that looks like an ordinary circuit box? What if those cameras could also talk to a LOCAL thermostat, know when people are home, and raise/lower the temperature accordingly? There are proper/ethical ways of doing things and unethical shortcuts.

    2. Re:To Much by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      As I get older the shiny tech edge gets not only less attractive but off putting.

      Same here. Hell I hate the fact that macOS has facebook and other bullshit built-in because I'm never going to use it. It's wasted space on my SSD and maybe even wasted RAM and potentially insecure hooks in the OS itself.

      I don't want/need light bulbs with WiFi.

      I bought Philips SceneSwitch Colour (2200K, 2700K, 5000K) bulbs. They don't connect to anything but they do offer something more than regular dumb bulbs.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    3. Re:To Much by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

      The hardest and most expensive piece these days is the plastic box. I can't believe how much some of those little boxes are. I've started repurposing the enclosure of other obsolete stuff. It really is a golden age to be a electonics hobbyist.

      Get yourself either a laser cutter and/or a 3D printer. Then you can build your own custom enclosures.

      --
      #DeleteFacebook
    4. Re:To Much by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      You can still text on a flip phone. If you're writing a research paper and texting it to someone, then you're better off calling them anyway. Texts = SMS. SHORT Message Service! People often forget the first word of this acronym.

    5. Re:To Much by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 1

      I don't want my thermostat connected to the internet.

      Mine isn't, but I can see the value. Last night my family and I left a restaurant and started the 15-minute journey home. Would have been nice to have been able to remotely bump the thermostat from 60F to 70F before we left the restaurant so the house was warm when we got home.

      Why does anyone need a washer, dry or refrigerator connected to anything but power and water?

      Refrigerator I agree with you. Washer / dryers will soon be able to query the public utilities to find out when power gets cheaper, and not turn on until then. It's also nice to remotely turn on the dryer an hour before you get home, so you can hang up your clothes without them sitting all wrinkled in the dryer.

    6. Re:To Much by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Technically, querying the utility only needs a one-way link. No cloud-clown account needed -- you should just be able to input a URL where your utility has an XML file of daily power rates. As far as the dryer, will the clothes be sitting wet in there all day growing mold before you turn it on?

    7. Re: To Much by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      When we lived in an apartment that had its own thermostat, it was at 50F 100% of the time. Neighbors liked to heat to 75F, enough heat leaked through the walls to keep our place at 65-70F without the heat ever turning on. Free heat!

    8. Re:To Much by chispito · · Score: 1

      It's also nice to remotely turn on the dryer an hour before you get home, so you can hang up your clothes without them sitting all wrinkled in the dryer.

      That sounds nice, but when you think it through
      1) Put load in wash (~45 min)
      2) Move load from wash to drier but do not turn on
      3) Go do something for up to 12 hours, but make sure you have the time and energy upon arriving back home to take out the load for hanging/folding

      Plus, let's be honest, if you are doing laundry for more than one person, you want to get it all done as fast as possible anyway, load after load. Your other scenario, about running when rates are lower was... slightly more realistic, but still runs into the problem of throughput.

      I have to agree with the GP. Most smart devices solve problems nobody is having.

      --
      The Daddy casts sleep on the Baby. The Baby resists!
    9. Re: To Much by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 1

      U put your thermostat on 60 when you leave the house?

      My house is somewhat older and somewhat drafty (heated by natural gas). No point in spending the money burning gas (and putting CO2 out the chimney) when no one is there to appreciate it, particularly when the forced-air will warm it up the 10F in 10-15 minutes.

      We do the same thing for the 8 hours we're asleep.

    10. Re: To Much by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      So just turn on the heat when you come in -- wear a sweater for 10 minutes, Jimmy Carter style. Not that 60F actually feels cold when coming in from 30 or 40F outside.

    11. Re:To Much by b0s0z0ku · · Score: 1

      Or instead of (2), you can put a clothing line on your back porch, hang the clothes, and never have them wrinkle. Bonus points if it annoys uptight neighbor or HOA goose-stepper types.

    12. Re: To Much by lennie61 · · Score: 1

      I'm a Software Engineer and I agree that most of the "Smart" Thermostats (like Nest) cost WAY too much for the "power" of being connected to the Internet. My old $25 thermostat that just sets the temperature on a 5 (weekday)/2 (weekend) time based schedule is more than sufficient for ~10% of the price...

    13. Re:To Much by jittles · · Score: 1

      I don't want my thermostat connected to the internet.

      Well, I can only tell you why I personally got a Wi-Fi thermostat. I used to travel a lot for work. Like A LOT. Some years I would fly over 100,000 miles. When you're not home often you don't really need to heat or AC on much. But it sucks coming home to a freezing cold or burning hot house at 3AM on a Friday night / Saturday morning. Sometimes I would forget to adjust the temps while I was gone. So I could turn the AC / heat off. Set it to temperatures that keep the house safe from mold or mildew. In fact, my thermostat can be set to turn on the AC if the humidity raises above a certain point. So what happens if I forget to turn the AC off? I do so from the airport. Don't want to come home to a 58 degree house after a long trip? Turn on the heat as soon as you touch down and the house will already be warming up before you get home. Is it necessary? No - I could live without it. But I found that I started saving over $100 a month in the summer and $20-30 a month in the winter. I've had that thermostat for 6 years now, so it has easily paid for itself.

      As for security cameras, they can be helpful. However, I would personally put them on a completely separate network from your home network and use a single system to bridge them onto your network. Whether that is through RDP to view the video on a system that sits on both networks, or a VPN connection to that network, it protects your personal devices and privacy but still can potentially allow you to remotely view what's going on at home.

    14. Re:To Much by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      I don't want my thermostat connected to the internet.

      IMHO, the problem is that we changed the internet from the peer-to-peer model to the server-based model. It should be that the devices sends the data to your local network, and you having control to expose that as you see fit. Instead, it sends it to a 3rd-party cloud provider, who then has a hole through your firewall.

      All this started when we went from personal home pages to centralized systems like MySpace and then Facebook. That was the beginning. Now it is just assumed that data is placed on the cloud. Even my 10 year old son is seeing it. Some games save to the cloud: yay! When he got his new laptop, his save games were there! Other games required him to manually copy them to a flash drive and copy them across. He is smart enough to do that. BUT, he notices some games didn't save to the cloud right. And other games deleted his saved worlds when they send updates, or they lost some of his saves.

    15. Re:To Much by CohibaVancouver · · Score: 1

      you can put a clothing line on your back porch

      I live in the Pacific Northwest. Here is my forecast for this week (with apologies in advance for the metric temperatures).

      https://imgur.com/a/mDQuEnM

      ...and pretty much the previous two months and upcoming two months.

    16. Re:To Much by swillden · · Score: 1

      What if instead of paying for that system, it's electric usage, and maintenance, you instead install the thermostat next to the door and hit a button on your way out to lower the temp by 15 degrees?

      Because I'm incapable of remembering to do that. At 50 years old I know what I can and can't expect of myself, and while I can dream and create nifty things, remembering to do little things is simply not going to happen. So, my garage door closes automatically, my thermostat detects when no one is home and adjusts accordingly, my sprinklers run automatically and adjust the amount of water based on soil moisture, my lights automatically turn off at night, etc., etc.

      Because I can't remember to open the windows at night in the summer to cool the house down, I'm building a system to automatically draw cold night air in and use the house HVAC system to pump it through the house. I'll spend many hours on this project before it's done -- installing ductwork, fans and dampers, designing electronic circuits and printed circuit boards, then soldering them together, writing software, testing and wiring and testing and tweaking... probably far more hours net than if I were simply to take 60 seconds each evening and morning to open and close the damned windows. But I've spent nearly 30 years trying to remember to open and close the damned windows, and at this point it's clear that's just never going to happen. So, I'll automate it. And then I'll automate something else, and so on. And all of these doohickeys will be Internet-connected so I can monitor and manage them remotely if I want to.

      If that seems ridiculously complicated to you, and you think it would be much easier to open and close the windows, well, maybe that's true for you. Not for me.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    17. Re:To Much by antdude · · Score: 1

      Same here. I used to be excited to get the newer stuff, but not anymore. I got tired of buggy, costly, bloated, etc. products, I just use older stuff that are more stable, cheaper, etc.

      --
      Ant(Dude) @ Quality Foraged Links (AQFL.net) & The Ant Farm (antfarm.ma.cx / antfarm.home.dhs.org).
  5. Those are all super bad examples by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

    Only a small percentage of people want a drone, or a fitbit, an action camera, or a $60k+ electric vehicle (like Tesla found out), or a $1000+ phone (as Apple is finding out)

    Wow you are absolute pants at understanding markets.

    All of those things have growing markets with a lot of demand.

    Fads do indeed have issues with market saturation- but those ain't it, which is why all of those items are in markets with healthy growth (even if some companies may struggle within the space, like Fitbit itself which has a lot of oxygen sucked away by heart-monitoring Apple Watches).

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Those are all super bad examples by 110010001000 · · Score: 1

      Uh, no. Apparently you haven't been following the trends. Tesla and Apple have not been growing nearly as fast as they have been, especially on the high end. The market for $1000+ iPhones and $60k+ Teslas are very limited and the market is punishing them now as the demand has evaporated. The vast majority of people are not like you, or like the people you know.

    2. Re:Those are all super bad examples by SuperKendall · · Score: 1

      I pay attention to earns reports, not market rumors.

      Little tip for you - growth is growth, even if it appears somewhat slower at times.

      You said the market was saturated. Which would mean no growth... there is growth, so the market is by definition not saturated.

      kthanksbye. You can have then last response since you appear not to understand markets or growth or, well, anything.

      --
      "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    3. Re:Those are all super bad examples by 110010001000 · · Score: 2

      I said the growth was slowing and eventually the market is saturated. Obviously no market with any growth is 100% saturated, but the massive growth is over. In particular Tesla and Apple are finding that out the hard way. There are only a limited number of people in those markets. I know you are a young technocrat and Apple/Tesla fanboy, but you are too inexperienced to know that the valuation of these companies are based on massive growth not "earns reports". Once the growth slows, they have a harder time borrowing money against their valuations. Many companies learned this the hard way - the tech industry is littered with them.

  6. Muscle? Or Lawyers? by WCMI92 · · Score: 1

    The huge megacorps can afford the lawyers. If you can't you are a slave.

    --
    Corporatism != Free Market
  7. Re:Commerciality is much more difficult than softw by DontBeAMoran · · Score: 1

    This sounds quite similar to the Shoe Event Horizon storyline from The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.

    It's quite possible that in the (very near) future, the only companies on the planet that will be able to manufacture anything will be the ones that also have software services associated to their own hardware. We're already almost at that point with Amazon, Apple, Google and Microsoft.

    --
    #DeleteFacebook
  8. The problem is the products. by DMJC · · Score: 1

    I think the problem is the products themselves, also development is harder than people give credit for. I mean sure there's a lot of standards based me-too products out there. But there's very little innovation. One of the things Steve Jobs was able to do was bring an entire new shape/form factor to market that was almost completely new, or at least so different to what was available for a reasonable price that it seemed completely new. I think start up companies just completely lack the resources to pull that off. Razer is the only company I can think of that recently started putting out new products with original designs. Even they have had to slowly build to that point, first with keyboards/mice which quite frankly are pretty average things. Then using that money to break into the high end laptop space, and finally starting to develop new tech like the Razer core e-GPU chassis, which sure there were some kit bashed ones people had put together but the Core brought it together into a product and made it sexy. I'd like to see someone make a home media server that has a ton of storage, a really sexy case. E.g something that doesn't look like an Apple TV square box. Designed for silence and to look good. I can't imagine anyone designing/building anything like I have in mind. There's just no interest/money to develop a new product from scratch and those with the money to do it definitely don't have the expertise or skillset to pull it off. There just aren't many companies around today that can integrate hardware with software properly.

    1. Re:The problem is the products. by Nexus7 · · Score: 1

      Yeah, more than consumers, manufacturers are even bigger sheeple. Look at every big and small company making bigger and bigger phones with more and more cameras. The only way they can do that at a lower price than Samsung is to make a lower quality product. If I'm looking for a smaller phone say 5" and light with a newer processor - nothing out there. Smaller manufacturers should be developing niche markets and growing them, not chasing lower and lower margins with commodity products.