Elon Musk Offered Chinese Green Card (politico.com)

hackingbear writes: During Elon Musk's trip to China for the ground-breaking of Tesla's first overseas factory, which will allow it to sell vehicles directly in the world's largest market for electric vehicles, he was offered a Chinese green card when he met with Premier Li Keqiang on Wednesday in Beijing, where they discussed Tesla's China ambitions. "I love China and want to come here more often," Musk was quoted as saying in the report. "If you do, we can issue you a Chinese green card," the premier replied. Getting a Chinese "green card" has been described as "one of the most difficult tasks in the world." By 2017, only about 10,000 foreigners had been granted permanent residency since the program was introduced in 2004, out of an estimated 1 million foreigners living in China; recipients include Dutch scientist Bernard Feringa, who won the 2016 Nobel Prize in chemistry.

Comments

It's a Trap!

[DatbeDank]

Any business leader, especially one the caliber of Elon Musk, willingly visiting China is taking a massive risk given the geopolitical machinations going on.
He'd have to be stupid to not think the Chicoms wouldn't in a heartbeat lock up the star of America's green tech.

I'd sooner visit Afghanistan, Yemen, or Somalia over China. At least the risks are obvious. In China, your freedom is on the whim of some self serving bureaucrats looking to boost their social credit scores.

No thank you!

Re:It's a Trap!

[dryriver]

Communists tend to "lock up" people with good intentions and high ideals - idealists, human rights campaigners, writers, intellectuals. Musk on the other hand is "billions of Dollars unencumbered by democratic ideals and human rights constraints just walked in the door" for China. Musk is exactly what they want - a wealthy industrialist who'll ignore China's horrific human rights abuses and manufacture and sell there anyway. Maybe they offered him the "Dragon Card" because he, for enough dough and benefits, offered to give China some of his SpaceX tech as well? The world is a complicated and often "upside-down" place. "Heroes of Innovation" are sometimes not "true heroes" in real life. A hero is someone who does NOT do anything he or she CAN do for big money. "Resisting temptation" and all that? =)

Re:It's a Trap!

[Rick Schumann]

All he'd have to do is be caught on sovereign Chinese soil with so much as one joint and they'd throw him in prison for drug trafficking, and who knows what demands they'd make of the State Department to get him released back to the U.S..
I think Musk can be fucking awesome, but let's face it, he's a loose cannon. He really needs a tough, competent assistant to keep him out of trouble.

Re:It's a Trap!

[AuMatar]

Yes, because the US drives tanks over its protestors. And the US locks up political dissidents. Don't be fucking stupid.

Re:It's a Trap!

[Rei]

"Loose cannon" is probably a fair label. That said, anyone who ever actually watched the Joe Rogan interview could clearly see that Musk has almost no experience with smoking pot. ;) That interview was great for cracking jokes, of course.

That said, when it comes to China, it's clearly not about Musk; it's about much bigger issues. 4,5% of China's new car sales last year were electric - far higher than the US. China has now issued rules to make it almost impossible to build a new factory for making ICE vehicles in the country. Tesla's Gigafactory 3 is a statement of what they view as their electric future (cleantech is a key part of Xi Jinping Thought). They're also using it as a showcase for their ability to turn around major foreign projects quickly. All of their coverage has included clips of Musk talking about how amazed he is with how fast companies can get things done in China, and Shanghai in particular.

Tesla, being one of the world's most controversial "story stocks", invariably attracts a lot of attention to everything they do, and as a result pretty much everyone in the business world is watching how this project turns out. Which is exactly what they want. There's no question that Tesla has gotten some serious preferential treatment there - being the first foreign automaker to get to fully own a plant in China, getting a really rapid turnaround on the project, getting billions of dollars in uncollateralized loans, having Musk meet with premier Li Keqiang as if he were some sort of foreign diplomat, etc, etc. China wants this project, and they want to show off with it.

Re:It's a Trap!

[dryriver]

There aren't even solid statistics or reports on human rights abuses in China. China could makes hundreds of people "disappear" in any given year, and you might hear of "one or two" people in China who have gone missing. Have you ever seen documentary camera footage of the inside of a Chinese prison or detention center? Precisely what does happen when police pick someone up in China? Are they read their "Miranda Rights", or are they just dragged away and terrorized?

Re: It's a Trap!

[Anonymous Coward]

millions of Uyghurs would like to have a chat with you.. but can't.

Re:It's a Trap!

[Joce640k]

Tell that to Lynndie England.

Re:It's a Trap!

[SirAstral]

This is a false dichotomy.

Running people down in a tank is hardly the only way to perform rights violations against people. Neither is it the most egregious. In most cases a rights violation is usually depending on several factors. Example... missile striking a building to kill a terrorist while also killing innocents is going to be a rights violation to many people. But missile striking a building to destroy and enemy leader while war is declared that collaterally damages innocents will usually not be considered a rights violation. You can tell that there is already spin in those statements because of the verbiage used to describe them though from a purely "technical" perspective both actions killed innocent people just to kill one specific individual.

Getting back to the primary point, it is difficult to quantify "how rights abusive" a nation actually is. There are many ways to "low-key" violate rights to such a degree that they are common place, well accepted, but just endured. When rights violations of this level occur, people start to forget that they exist. And often times due to their prevalence the suffering low-key rights violations cause could actually be worse that just randomly running down one person in a tank in a show of force.

If you resurrected much of America's passed military heroes today, they would likely equate the USA to be the same as many nations they fought to protect America against in the past.

And besides... we don't need a tank, a police officer can just shoot you and likely not get into "meaningful" trouble.

The real problem here is that you are arbitrarily equating a tank running over a person as being worse because you perceive that "authority" is thumbing its nose at human rights. Well, an officer not being treated exactly like they treat regular citizens for killing a person is pretty much the same thing. I can think of many ways to thumb my nose at human rights and get you to think I respect them, in fact politicians spend a lot of time doing just this very thing and getting people to vote for them.

Let me provide you with a working example.

Take two police chiefs. They have comparable crimes rates, incarceration rates, arrest rates, recidivism rates, kill rates of people shot by officers, response rates to crimes, with policies and operations procedures exactly same right down to the placement of punctuation.

If #1 says it is unfortunate we cannot do a better job of stopping crime... you will likely like them.
If #2 says he does not care if officers mow criminals down in the streets... you will likely hate them... even though their policies and procedures are the same and produce the same results in the end.

The point is that you allow the imagery and rhetoric to shape your judgement far more than you should allow it to shape your judgement. A cop shooting an unarmed person in their home because they had the wrong information is essentially the same rights violation as a tank running a person down carrying groceries. Both are sanctioned by the state and following state orders and disrespected life for no reasonable cause. If the results of your actions get the innocent killed "in these kinds of ways" then you are committing rights violations because these events require that an unreasonable amount of disregard for human life be present in the situation for them to occur in the first place, even if the situations are entirely different in setting, excuses, and arbitrarily applied laws!

Re:It's a Trap!

[LynnwoodRooster]

I didn't realize we lock up hundreds of thousands without trial and "re-educate" them about their wrong thinking... And good luck going to China and posting on WeChat something critical of the Government or President Xi. Here in the US, you can protest all you want; in China if you protest the Government. They love to arrest and lock up journalists who speak out against the Government. If the same was in the US, Jim Acosta would have been in prison most of the last 24 months...

Re:It's a Trap!

[transwarp]

"Loose cannon" is probably a fair label. That said, anyone who ever actually watched the Joe Rogan interview could clearly see that Musk has almost no experience with smoking pot. ;) That interview was great for cracking jokes, of course.

The interview was even better for distracting the tech news world on the day Tesla's new head of auditing resigned after less than a month. I'll give it to Musk, it worked.

Re:It's a Trap!

[LynnwoodRooster]

China has now issued rules to make it almost impossible to build a new factory for making ICE vehicles in the country.

False. If you can read Mandarin, you can read for yourself. SMALL companies will be stopped, but those big Government entities - Geely, BAIC, SAIC, BYD, and others are exempt. They can expand all they want. Why? They are Government owned, and the Government gets to do what it wants.

And do you realize that Musk was really there to celebrate the opening of a Chinese factory that carries the Tesla name? It's not a Tesla factory - car factories/companies in China must be at least a joint venture, and must be at least 51% owned by Chinese entities (people or companies). Elon and Tesla don't own controlling interest in that factory - it's a Chinese factory wearing the Tesla badge.

Re: It's a Trap!

[LynnwoodRooster]

You can stay for more than 60 days at a time. That's about it. Getting a 10 year visa is trivial, and you can stay for about 358 days a year in China - because every 60 days you must leave for at least a 24 hour period. Note that crossing over to Macau or Hong Kong counts as "leaving", so bouncing across to Hong Kong for a day resets that 60 day clock.

Re:It's a Trap!

[SirAstral]

China has already figured out two important things. Build a large military to keep aggressors out, but conquer others through economy & control of it. They have learned the American way... military is only used against the weak nations in a post WW2 world, otherwise regulate/control everything they can under the guise of protecting you.

Nothing is mightier than money/power. It is the beast that drives war/conflict, and no other. If someones tells you that a war/conflict was fought for a reason other than money/power then you can safely ignore any advice they have for they are someone else's fool.

Re:It's a Trap!

[Rei]

LOL. Tesla has several dozen people at the VP level or higher. The average executive changes jobs every 3-5 years. At a high-stress company like Tesla with frequent changes in needs, you should expect significantly shorter.

If you're going to freak out every time a person at the VP level or higher leaves Tesla, you're going to be freaking out a lot. But all means, please don't let that stop you. I love the ever-so predictable lows and highs in this stock. Good buy points wouldn't be so easy to come by if not for people like you.

Re:It's a Trap!

[Anonymous Coward]

She tortured people under color of duty. Torture is illegal even for GI's. She was "scapegoated" only because so few others were sought for prosecution, which in turn was because she TOOK PHOTOS. Pure idiocy.

Re:It's a Trap!

[Rei]

Cough.

BEIJING — Electric car producer Tesla will build its first factory outside the United States in Shanghai, becoming the first wholly foreign-owned automaker in China.

Seriously, google it.

As for your PDF:

Chapter III Fuel Vehicle Vehicle Investment Project
Article 11
It is forbidden to construct the following fuel vehicle investment projects (not sold in China) Except for investment projects for sale of products):
(1) Newly built independent fuel vehicle enterprises;
(2) Existing automobile enterprises build fuel vehicle production in the category of passenger cars and commercial vehicles ability;
(3) The existing fuel automobile enterprises are relocated to other provinces as a whole (included in the national level) Development planning or projects that do not change the ownership structure of the company);
(4) Investing in fuel automobile enterprises that are specifically publicized by the industry management departments (enterprise) Except for investment projects in which the original shareholder invests or converts the enterprise into a non-independent legal entity)

Existing ICE automakers are pushing back against the rules, calling them impossible to meet.

China has made it clear what it expects its future to be, and it's electric. Not "several decades from now", but "very soon".

Re: It's a Trap!

[LynnwoodRooster]

The proper term would be "Lao Wai"; only a slovenly Cantonese speaker would use the "Gwai Lo" term. Real Chinese - the Han - use Mandarin and that would be Lao Wai (literally means old foreign). If you're going to troll, at least educate yourself first so you don't look so ignorant.

You're welcome.

Re:It's a Trap!

[LynnwoodRooster]

Those WFOE rule changes for automotive don't kick in until 2022 - if ever (China is famous for slow-walking regulatory changes). Current rules ban WFOE status for automotive factories. Since this factory is breaking ground, the controlling entity already exists - and that means it is majority owned by Chinese entities. By law.

As far as the ICE rules - read it yourself. There is an exemption for investment projects. Guess what - nearly every large Chinese company is considered an investment project, and the local Government (as well as the Provincial, usually) invest cash into the project and benefit from employment. Pretty much any company that would get Provincial level-or-higher investment would be considered an investment project - and exempt from the rule.

Re:It's a Trap!

[slashdice]

The thing is ... he doesn't even smoke that much weed. (and it's legal under California law). Coke, though. that's another thing. E has a nose like a vacuum cleaner.

Re:It's a Trap!

[AmiMoJo]

They are only doing it in retaliation for what the US and Canada did.

Re:It's a Trap!

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

You write such a long clinical unemotional response to someone who "allow the imagery and rhetoric to shape [one's] judgement far more than [one] should allow it to shape [one's] judgement".

You fail in both logic and in rhetoric.

Re:It's a Trap!

[Rei]

Tesla was granted an exception to WFOE rules. I'm not sure why you're having trouble following links or using Teh Google. 2022 is when the rule change goes through and applies to everyone.

And foreign automakers operating in China disagree with you about whether this rule change effectively prohibits them from starting new factories in the country.

Re:It's a Trap!

[Rei]

Or to put it another way: if you don't believe that GF3 is fully foreign owned (by Tesla), by all means, go ahead and name their (fictional) Chinese partner.

Re:It's a Trap!

[fbobraga]

Cold War feelings again...

Re:It's a Trap!

[LynnwoodRooster]

I followed the link - it didn't say what you hope it says. And as far as foreign automakers in China think - of course they come to their conclusion. For them, they cannot be an investment project. An investment project is pretty much limited to Government owned ventures - like car makers. If you're a WFOE, you're out of luck - but if you're China-Government owned, you can make ICEs.

Re:It's a Trap!

[Rei]

Literally every article on the subject says the exact same thing: Tesla's GF3 is the first fully foreign owned auto factory in China and they were granted an exception for this. Tesla has no Chinese partner in the project. Period. Google it. If you want to keep asserting something against all very accessible facts, then by all means, cite Tesla's fictional Chinese partner.

I'm waiting.

Re:It's a Trap!

[LynnwoodRooster]

OK - point to one since my GoogleFu isn't strong enough, apparently. As far as ownership - it's not a publicly traded company, so ownership is not disclosed. Like in the US - private companies do not have to disclose ownership.

Re:It's a Trap!

[Gavagai80]

Musk is from South Africa. He lives in the USA because it's expedient. He's not some American agent pushing America's agenda, and China knows that.

The risk of landing in prison is far, far higher in the USA than in China for anyone who isn't a political activist. The USA has 4% of the world's population and 22% of the world's prisoners.

Re: It's a Trap!

[Anonymous Coward]

When talking about human right we are referring to how a government treats their own citizens (or subjects or property depending on the country).

But! Oh! The US bombs people! Waaaaah! is not a human rights issue. It is politics.

Re:It's a Trap!

[Rei]

I literally gave you a Google search result in which every single article talked about the topic. And (for the third time!), I'll repeat: "If you want to keep asserting something against all very accessible facts, then by all means, cite Tesla's fictional Chinese partner. ... I'm waiting."

How many times are you going to dodge that? Let me take a wild guess: you're going to respond yet again, without a name for the fictional "Chinese partner".

Re:It's a Trap!

[SirAstral]

I may have failed to help you understand, but you were successful in revealing why you can be easily fooled and manipulated.

If emotions are required for an appeal to your sensibilities then, at best, you are likely only going to be a product of your environment instead of being an agent of beneficial change or reason within the environment. Anyone can make an appeal to emotion... including evil & illogical people. But those that can remain level headed and explain why an argument is baseless without getting over emotional are usually valuable. Nuance is lost on those like you, and any analysis at depth is ignored or played off as unworthy of consideration.

Additionally, since you are not able or willing to provide counter points, it is likely you are incapable of a deeper analysis making your own comments anemic If you need emotions behind that statement just imagine someone calling you something vulgar to help make you feel better about yourself. I am not against a good insult or few and participate in regular vulgarities myself.

Re:It's a Trap!

[Lost Race]

Eventually one must admit that one has been arguing with a brick wall, and leave the wall in peace to do its job of holding down the floor.

Re:It's a Trap!

[AHuxley]

In the USA you are free to talk about the Tiananmen square protests..
People in the USA are free to talk about a personality cult in China.
When a Communist party leader gets to be emperor.
Books like Animal Farm and Brave New World can be talked about in the USA.
The USA allows an animated bear to be talked about in reference to politics.

In the USA people have freedom after making such comments about China.
People in the USA also enjoy freedom of religion and can publish their own comments on politics and political parties.
China is also working on a Social Credit System https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... to track all its citizens social reputation.
Travel bans, limits to education are just the start of problems people face if they speak out in any way.

Very different from the freedoms that are fully protected in the USA.

Re:It's a Trap!

[angel'o'sphere]

In theory ... in practice I'm not so sure about your freedoms.
Considering e.g. legal age for sex or alcohol ...
The home land security flight bans ...
The retarded punishments for "computer crimes".

The social credit system in the US is FB ... in case you have not noticed. Employers forcing you to hand access to the account over before accepting you e.g.

Weekly drug tests etc.

Re:It's a Trap!

[angel'o'sphere]

What is the difference to shooting people with war weapons?

From the point of view of the Chinese, the people "run over by tanks" could have walked away ...

Re:It's a Trap!

[AHuxley]

In the USA you can still talk about such things.
In China the talking is banned too :)
The talking and comments about politics in the USA are not crimes.

Re: It's a Trap!

[theweatherelectric]

we are referring to how a government treats their own citizens

America assassinates its own citizens, even though America's constitution is supposed to prohibit that. When America indulges in extrajudicial killings it becomes difficult to claim the moral high ground over Russia or Saudi Arabia.

Re: It's a Trap!

[LynnwoodRooster]

To be honest, it was our prior President who did that. I don't think the current President would do that. He seems to play a lot closer to the Constitution...

Re:It's a Trap!

[dunkelfalke]

Like Manning?

Re:It's a Trap!

[johnsie]

The guy walked in front of the tank, which is an incredibly stupid thing to do. No evidence whatsoever that the tank drove over him. And yes, the US has one of the highest inmate counts per person in the world.

Re:It's a Trap!

[johnsie]

Americans prefer to quietly collect everything you say, the places you go and the things you do. It's all stored in datacenters and analysed. I'm sure if they thought you were a risk they would find a way to quietly deal with you.

Re:It's a Trap!

[Can'tNot]

You're confused, freedom of speech is a civil right (sometimes categorized under political rights). The human rights that the parent is talking about are things like life and liberty, both of which are things that the United States deprives its citizens (and non-citizens) of at a rate higher than China.

Re:It's a Trap!

[froggyjojodaddy]

Can you really though? I mean, folks can't even get down one knee during the anthem without the President calling them "sons of bitches"

Re:It's a Trap!

[DNS-and-BIND]

Oh, no! They deliberately insulted millions of patriotic Americans and then someone hurt their feelings! Who knew that actions have consequences! Someone call the waaaahmbulance!

Re:It's a Trap!

[Shaitan]

Emotions are a fundamental requirement in order to have self-defined objectives. Even a drive as fundamental as hunger is an emotion.

"Running people down in a tank is hardly the only way to perform rights violations against people."

They also used machine guns when they used that tank. They used them in the slaughter and burning of the people in the brutal occupation of their neighbor Tibet as well. Since China argues Tibet is part of China or that there simply is no Tibet we would have to count those as actions against its own citizens.

That aside it is almost impossible to parse your post.

It may be possible to make the argument the United States has as bad of a human rights record as China on a global scale but domestically there is no question. Even with detention camps for the japanese in WWII and the brief eugenics sterilization of criminals there is little comparison.

Re:It's a Trap!

[Shaitan]

Nobody is entirely unemotional including those labeled as sociopaths. An emotion is nothing more than a form hormonal signaling and even the most primitive drives such as hunger are examples. Without emotion there is no self-drive.

Re:It's a Trap!

[angel'o'sphere]

The Trumpet suffers from free speech, too!! In other words: he is free to utter any stupidity he wants ...

Re:It's a Trap!

[AlwinBarni]

I still would choose democracy any time you asked, even if bad things happen at least I can do something about it with guaranteed freedom of speech, assembly, petition and most importantly my vote.

Re:It's a Trap!

[grumpyman]

They will also go to anywhere to kidnap dissident and bring them back to China, if they can.

Re:It's a Trap!

[Rick Schumann]

Ironically China has this right but of course being China they're going about it in the most draconic authoritarian way possible, literally forcing their will on everyone they can. ICEs have to become obsolete sooner rather than later; fossil fuel use needs to end sooner rather than later. Waiting for it to become scarce is too long to wait. Electric ground vehicles are the future and the world needs to embrace it not fight against it. The sooner it's widely adopted as standard the sooner R&D into things like energy storage will be ramped up, facilitating electric vehicle production, adoption, and price reduction.

Re:It's a Trap!

[Shaitan]

I wouldn't exactly call that comparable. Those were armed forces who were part of a nationwide network preparing for a rebellion. Granted, only an idiot believes the government on that one but those weren't peaceful protesters or monks who insist on digging a handful at a time to avoid killing an insect.

Still not cool, since that rebellion was about protecting the people from a corrupt system but at least it was part of a hostile armed force. The Chinese don't have that going for them. Better examples are probably citizens tortured by allies on our behalf, Gitmo, and pretty much all the shenanigans of the NSA and friends.

Re:It's a Trap!

[froggyjojodaddy]

I didn't realize it's not patriotic to get on one knee during the anthem. Man, all those people who get on a knee when knighted by the Queen have been openly mocking her all this time and she didn't even know!

To protest at an injustice is the highest form of patriotism. To sit/stand idly by and let injustice occur is the exact opposite of patriotism.

Re:It's a Trap!

[DNS-and-BIND]

Uh, the Left believes that patriotism is for morons. Seriously? You're arguing in bad faith.

Giving the finger to the American people is really bad form. But I suppose it felt really good for all those millionaires to pretend to be oppressed. They treat Americans as The Other.

"I love China and want to come here more often,"

[Anonymous Coward]

"Lots of pedos, plenty of places to dig a hole in the ground."

Trump has a green card ...

[CaptainDork]

... and it's a beautiful thing. Much better than Musk's failing green card. Sad. Melania got an expedited green card.

Re:Trump has a green card ...

[ShanghaiBill]

Importing high-dollar whores to spy for foreign adversaries...

Slovenia is a member of NATO, and a solid American ally.

Re:Trump has a green card ...

[CaptainDork]

Hillary didn't expedite Trump's green card. Melania's husband did that.

Re:Trump has a green card ...

[Patent Lover]

Don't forget her parents. Chain migrants.

Its So Much Quicker To Steal EV Tech...

[dryriver]

...when the electrical vehicles are being made right under your nose. And by the way, is it ethical at all to manufacture anything in a 1 billion strong COMMUNIST country where citizens have minimal rights, if any? Couldn't you make stuff just as cheaply in Ghandi's India, where - at the very least - people get to vote in local and national elections, and might want a factory job or two to feed their children as well? Couldn't you manufacture cheaply in Vietnam, Bangladesh or Africa, or Latin America as well? Why China, China, China all the time? Factories don't function elsewhere? Who the fuck came up with the idea of pouring Trillions of manufacturing Dollars every year into the last not-so-great bastion of Communist Political Rule? Obviously someone to whom Universal Democractic Ideals and Human Rights was "an odious ideal". I'd feel a lot better if the tech shit I buy was NOT MANUFACTURED IN BLOODY CHINA. There are dozens of underdeveloped but reasonably FREE countries where people need jobs just as badly as China, and who'd jump on the opportunity to manufacture even a QUARTER of the stuff China makes right now. But no - it has to be China, China, China apparently... because "Made In China" makes a product EXTRA SPECIAL, you see?

Re:Its So Much Quicker To Steal EV Tech...

[angel'o'sphere]

You seem to be an idiot.
Against popular believe: they have elections and voting in China, too.
And: Vietnam is a "communist" country, just like China.

There are dozens of underdeveloped but reasonably FREE countries where people need jobs just as badly as China
Underdeveloped as in: not developed enough to run such factories ... so why do you want to produce anything in a country that can't produce it?

Re:Its So Much Quicker To Steal EV Tech...

[ShanghaiBill]

Couldn't you make stuff just as cheaply in Ghandi's India

No. Absolutely not. India is far more corrupt, bureaucratic, and inefficient than China. Chinese workers are four times as productive as Indians. All the supply chains are in China, and it is easy to find people with manufacturing expertise.

Plus is China, the corruption WORKS: You bribe one guy, and you get the permit to build your factory. In India, you bribe one guy, and he steps aside so you can deal with the next bureaucrat with his hand out. It can take years to get a license to operate a fruit stand. A car factory? Forget it.

Go visit both China and India. You will be astounded at the divergence in living standards. China is far more prosperous. There are reasons for that.

Re:Its So Much Quicker To Steal EV Tech...

[hackingbear]

Couldn't you manufacture cheaply in Vietnam, Bangladesh or Africa, or Latin America as well?

1. all these countries also violate intellectual properties left and right. All developing countries, including the USA itself, violate intellectual propertiesen mass during the early days of its industrialization. (And they will all become patent trolls once they become developed.)
2. like the US, China has entered an era post low-end manufacturing and therefore boost its intellectual property protection as a way to move up the economic food chain. This is the real reason the US is so afraid of China now: once China plays the same IP games, the US will lose its competitive advantages.
3. many of those other countries, including those "democratic" ones, are more corrupted than the "communist" China.

You don't hear much about IP violations, or corruption, or human rights violation in those other countries or the US itself simply because China is currently the main arch-rival of the US and the West world.

Re:Its So Much Quicker To Steal EV Tech...

[dryriver]

China is far more prosperous because... erm... some people with great POWER and ZERO ETHICAL CONCERNS decided to M-A-K-E CHINA PROSPEROUS. There is NOTHING special in any way about China as a manufacturing location, unless you are a LEFT IDEOLOGUE masquerading as a WESTERN CAPITALIST. =) There are at least 70 cheap countries in the world that could manufacture ANYTHING China can given a fraction of the investment. But the BIG MONEY from around the WORLD is being FUNNELED to China. Of course that makes sense to the SHITSTAINS running this SHITSHOW - you can get away with things in the OPEN AIR PRISON that is the PEOPLE'S REPUBLIC OF CHINA that you cannot get away with anywhere else. No democracy. No human rights. No religious ethics. No God. No law. No constraints. No consequences for anything wicked being done to people there. So WHO are the powerful people who decided that HUNDREDS OF FECKLESS NEW DOLLAR BILLIONAIRES should be created in CHINA of all countries? and WHY CHINA when so many other countries can do the same? Waiting for your response...

Re:Its So Much Quicker To Steal EV Tech...

[ShanghaiBill]

an actual attempt at necessarily diverse Democracy in India...

The BJP, the ruling party in India, is about as "pro-diversity" as America's KKK.

Re:Its So Much Quicker To Steal EV Tech...

[Applehu Akbar]

Because you can build large things in China without having hordes of hippie moms or Westwood real estate snobs sue you into oblivion. Musk drilled a short section of urban transit tunnel near Dodger Stadium because it's a good place to show off concept demos to investors, but if he wants to install a prototype transit line under the streets of a real city, it's going to have to be in China.

Re:Its So Much Quicker To Steal EV Tech...

[LynnwoodRooster]

LOL! Voting in China? You've ever lived there, or have Chinese family? Not a chance! The party controls all, down to the local level. IF your family is chosen as one that gets a vote (not all families get the right to vote), the Party chooses which member of your family gets to vote. It is 100% fascist/dictatorship based Government. There is a vote as much as there were votes for Saddam Hussein.

Here are the results of the latest 2018 election; the closest race was Zhang Jun who ran for the Minister of Justice, he sqeaked by with just 99.49% of the vote - that is a nail-biter in China!

There are NO elections in China, it's window-dressing only for outsiders to feel better about the Country. All positions are pre-selected, pre-arranged, and done only with the blessing of the Central Communist Party leadership only.

Re:Its So Much Quicker To Steal EV Tech...

[LynnwoodRooster]

Exactly. If anything, China shows that Fascism Works. Blend the Government and Business nice and close and it works. Sucks for basic human rights and freedoms, but you can build lots of stuff and get factories running!

Re: Its So Much Quicker To Steal EV Tech...

[LynnwoodRooster]

I'm surprised he accepted the position! He lost 5 out of 1000 votes - a travesty!

Re:Its So Much Quicker To Steal EV Tech...

[ShanghaiBill]

IF you're ethnic Han there's prosperity, any other race is shaken down, imprisoned, disappeared, robbed, cheated.

Not true. Most minorities in China are doing about as well as their Han neighbors. The big exceptions are Uyghurs and Tibetans.

In Xinjiang, much of the conflict is not Uyghur vs Han, but Uyghur vs Hui despite both being Muslim.

I have never been to Tibet, but I have been to the Tibetan region of Yunnan, including the city of Xianggelila. I traveled there from Lijiang, and the difference between the two cities is startling despite being only 60 miles apart.

Xianggelila is ethnically Tibetan, and was sullen. I was warned not to go out after dark. I saw a group of teenagers sniffing gasoline to get high, and in the morning there were several drunks passed out in the gutter on my street. There was litter everywhere, and many areas smelled like urine and vomit.

Lijiang is ethnically Naxi, and is a joyful place, with bustling nightlife. Troupes of entertainers were dancing in the street. Even street repair crews were singing and laughing while they worked. Many Naxi in Lijiang operate shops out of their homes, or rent spare rooms to visitors.

The Tibetans look at the Han and see "invaders". The Naxi look at the Han and see "customers". This difference in attitude makes a world of difference.

Re:Its So Much Quicker To Steal EV Tech...

[jrumney]

...in Ghandi's India

Ghandi is currently polling 23%, against Modi at 41%. The era of the Ghandi family dynasty is not about to be revived.

Re:Its So Much Quicker To Steal EV Tech...

[AHuxley]

For people approved by the Communist party. Just like the Soviet Union, East Germany.

Re:Its So Much Quicker To Steal EV Tech...

[angel'o'sphere]

East Germany actually had more than one party ... and you were obliged to vote, so nothing about "approval".

Re:Its So Much Quicker To Steal EV Tech...

[angel'o'sphere]

Point is: there are votes. Which our parent claimed there weren't.

Re:Its So Much Quicker To Steal EV Tech...

[AHuxley]

The other party was fully approved by the East german government :)

Re:Its So Much Quicker To Steal EV Tech...

[angel'o'sphere]

The other parties were about a dozen.

And obviously parties need to be approved, or they would not be able to run in elections. Or how do you actually do it?

So what will it be this time?

[AlanObject]

Now an Elon Musk thread. I suppose we were due.

I have been repeatedly assured with great Reason and Authority on this very web site that Elon Musk is a fake. Delusional. His engineering is crap. His books are cooked. There is no way he will ever make a profit. His quality control is just shit. The cards burn and the wheels fall off. He will never be able to scale his manufacturing. He lied to investors. The employees are all in open revolt. Every other car manufacturer in the world is going to eat his lunch. Out of cash in 6 months you watch. He smoked pot.

So now he is in China which apparently likes what he does. Of course they are going to steal all the technology which according to the above is worthless, so proving Musk is Delusional and a Fool once again. I guess.

Meanwhile I read that China -- a huge growing market -- projects 2019 they will buy fewer ICE cars but more cards overall for the first time in history.

So I came here to find out how this latest news proves once again what a charlatan Musk is. Waiting.

Re:So what will it be this time?

[angel'o'sphere]

Out of cash in 6 months you watch. He smoked pot.
Pot is cheap. Even in countries where it is "illegal".
I doubt he runs out of cash because he spends some money on pot ...

Re:So what will it be this time?

[Brett Buck]

I am not sure what you are talking about, Slashdot is the home of the flaming Musk fanbois.

Re:So what will it be this time?

[CanadianMacFan]

If he had money he could have gotten something better than pot.

Re:So what will it be this time?

[angel'o'sphere]

I guess some people would argue: there is nothing better. Only the origin and quality varies ... and the price.

Re:Forgotten!

[dryriver]

Take a quality 1990s Radio Controlled Car and scale it up to real-car size. Put a modern battery pack in it. You might get something that isn't much worse than a Tesla, and much cheaper to make, too... =)

Good

[AndyKron]

Give him the card. Maybe he'll stay.

Personal experience

[fubarrr]

Personal experience:

Chinese green card is a thing about which people have very mixed feelings. Application chances are totally random, privileges are a mixed blessing. Chinese state does not give a consistent message about what people should to expect from it.

In other words, it is a very hard to get, yet near meaningless document in comparison to 5 and 10 year work visas, aside you becoming fully subject to the glorious Chinese legal and tax system...

I knew one brilliant expat entrepreneur, undoubtedly a woman of exceptional achievement.

She lived in China since she was 14. She got her PhD in nanotechnology at 26, and by 27 she had an own chemical business that she made with money she won from "1000 talent plan" â" a national level scientific grant.

She owned a number of patents, and spoke 5 languages freely (including 2 Chinese dialects,) and she was a stunning tall beauty on top of that...

I would've said that is somebody was an ideal applicant, it would be her. She went to apply for that green card, and got a refusal notice _the next day_ with reason stated along the lines "we considered your high achievements, but you are too young and lack class..."

The attitudes of Chinese elites towards things like talent, merit, entitlement and personal achievement had not changed much in past decades. China was and is an extremely elitist and snobby country.

This attitude is pretty much telling "talented youngsters have no value besides being patronees,
and pages to the elite"

All they want is his "technology"

[p51d007]

People are LOW on the pole in China. POWER & technology rule the boat over there. Humans, are "subjects"...be it slave labor, or what not. To do what the STATE wants.

Re:Chinese will now steal all Tesla tech!

[LynnwoodRooster]

There is no Tesla factory in China. It is a Chinese factory with a Tesla name. Automotive factories in China must have a majority ownership of Chinese entities (individuals and companies). And in China, 51% ownership means 100% control of the factory. It is a Chinese factory, owned and run by the Chinese, and Elon's just hanging the big "T" in front of it.

Re:Your mail-order whore can't wait to poison you

[LynnwoodRooster]

Why are you so racist? How was the rally at your local KKK chapter - did you get your sheet properly bleached and pressed?

Re:Your mail-order whore can't wait to poison you

[Rei]

Do you have anything better to do than racist trolling?

Re:Your mail-order whore can't wait to poison you

[Rei]

Examples:

  * Crystal meth
  * Fixing up your trailer
  * Sleeping with your cousin
  * Adding another confederate flag sticker to your pickup
  * Not graduating from high school

Come on, there's loads of other things you could be doing apart from racist trolling on Slashdot.

Re: Chinese will now steal all Tesla tech!

[Anonymous Coward]

Read the news. They made an exception for Tesla's Shanghai Gigafactory. Tesla owns it outright.

I’m missing something

[93 Escort Wagon]

I’ve read the summary; I’ve read the comments... but I’m still unclear on why I should care in the least whether or not Elon Musk gets a green card from China.

Re:I’m missing something

[m00sh]

I’ve read the summary; I’ve read the comments... but I’m still unclear on why I should care in the least whether or not Elon Musk gets a green card from China.

China - lots of hate

Musk - lots of hate and lots of stans.

China and Musk in the same article? Click gold mine!

They want him to pay 45% Chinese tax

[Nocturrne]

...and give up his rights, just like all other Chinese people, so they can force him to transfer technology for EV cars and SpaceX tech, on his next visit.

Re:big deal

[HornWumpus]

Monaco, their neighbors got them to agree to 'conditions' a couple of decades ago. To get the zero income tax of Monaco citizenship, you have to jump through lots of hoops and suck up paying your taxes for decade or more.

Otherwise the EU was threatening to start taxing Europe's 0.01%. Pretend country, long running tax dodge etc.

Re:Oh how cute, cozying up to China

[johnsie]

Why should anything be made in America? Are Americans any better at working at Chinese people? Are they as cost effective as Chinese workers? If not then there's no reason why America should be selected over China. Simply being "American" doesn't entitle people to work, it doesn't make you special or any better at the job. It certainly doesn't make you more deserving of work.

evil

[thunderclees]

The PRC is shrewd enough to keep a tight lid on foreign access to industry and education since they would not want foreign nationals doing the same IP theft that the PRC does does by stuffing people into other states industry and education system. Then of course there is also the Billions someone like Mush would bring in hard currency were he to consider setting up shop in the workers paradise.