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South Korea Rules Pre-Installed Phone Bloatware Must Be Deletable (zdnet.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the just-the-basics dept.

New industry guidelines in South Korea will allow smartphone users the option of deleting unnecessary pre-installed bloatware. "The move aims to rectify an abnormal practice that causes inconvenience to smartphone users and causes unfair competition among industry players," said the Ministry of Science, ICT and Future Planning, in a press release. ZDNet reports: The measure will also help give users more data storage and improve battery life, said the ministry. Under the new guidelines, telcos are required to make most of their pre-installed apps deletable except for four necessary items related to Wi-Fi connectivity, near-field communication (NFC), the customer service center and the app store.

112 comments

  1. That means you can even delete the dialer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Interesting

    So operators are completely out of the loop if you use data only and use vpn and a VOIP dialer. This could work for Android but what about iOS?

    1. Re: That means you can even delete the dialer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Examples of necessary may not include every detail.

      Seems like iOS has a few things they need to allow for removal, but most things are these days

    2. Re:That means you can even delete the dialer by Gavagai80 · · Score: 4, Informative

      It explicitly does not mean that. It means "except for four necessary items related to Wi-Fi connectivity, near-field communication (NFC), the customer service center and the app store." Basically, boatware is anything that doesn't need to be on a restore image to make the phone immediately functional and allow convenient re-installation of desired apps.

      --
      This space intentionally left blank
    3. Re:That means you can even delete the dialer by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      So, basically all the bloat will be bundled into the 'Customer Service Centre' app, instead of spread out amongst several apps.

      Actual changes: None. Bloatware will still be there.

    4. Re:That means you can even delete the dialer by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Basically, boatware is anything that doesn't need to be on a restore image to make the phone immediately functional and allow convenient re-installation of desired apps.

      Except on Android the shipped bloatware is part of the read only portion of the image and thus specifically part of the core restore image.

  2. Re:Show me butthoal by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Say in portugues, you irresistible hunk

  3. Can we make rules for removable batteries too? by fustakrakich · · Score: 5, Interesting

    And headphone jacks, let's bring those back...

    When the market fails us, call in the cavalry

    --
    “He’s not deformed, he’s just drunk!”
    1. Re:Can we make rules for removable batteries too? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      unlockable bootloaders..

  4. 1MB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Microsoft's app sent 1MB of data from my phone to their servers. It came pre-installed, and I never used it. At what point exactly did I agree for Microsoft to slurp down 1MB worth of my private data from my phone?

    1. Re: 1MB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      It was really only a few hundred bytes in the payload, but it was wrapped in XML, COM, YAML, C# pickle, webASM.js, who knows what else

    2. Re:1MB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      When you bought the phone and accepted the license agreement.

    3. Re:1MB by swillden · · Score: 1

      Microsoft's app sent 1MB of data from my phone to their servers. It came pre-installed, and I never used it. At what point exactly did I agree for Microsoft to slurp down 1MB worth of my private data from my phone?

      Out of curiosity, what permissions does that app have? What might it have sent?

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    4. Re:1MB by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Hey pops, 1MB isn't that much anymore

    5. Re:1MB by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      At what point exactly did I agree for Microsoft to slurp down 1MB worth of my private data from my phone?

      Woopse, someone didn't read the EULA that came with their device. Trust me, you agreed for the things shipped with your phone to slurp away.

      In any case why would you not want that app to slurp down data? Would you prefer that you had to manually open every single app before they were allowed to download anything from the internet? Can you imagine the resulting unpatched security hole nightmare? ... this is a Microsoft app afterall.

  5. What a coincidence by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    What a coincidence, our latest release of Uninstallable App Store 2000 combines all the functions of our previous apps. This change introduces new heights of convenience for our users by combining messengers, adverts, video streaming, permanently-on microphone all in one app!

    1. Re:What a coincidence by Dustie · · Score: 1

      Are you talking about Apple? Apple are exempt from laws like these. They are allowed to snoop and bloat.

  6. Google probably lobbied for app store exemption by knorthern+knight · · Score: 1, Interesting

    Google Play probably runs 24x7 in the background so that it's "instantly available" when you click on it, instead of having to wait a second or 2 while it loads. Of course this drains the battery and makes other apps slower because Google Play is "stealing cycles" in the background.

    --

    I'm not repeating myself
    I'm an X window user; I'm an ex-Windows user
    1. Re:Google probably lobbied for app store exemption by jarkus4 · · Score: 2

      No need for special lobbying - store needs to remain to allow installation of new software. Otherwise people would delete everything and be left with no way to fix it themselves.

    2. Re:Google probably lobbied for app store exemption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      "Reset to Factory Defect"

    3. Re:Google probably lobbied for app store exemption by wierd_w · · Score: 3, Informative

      No. There's an out.

      the ADB interface allows the installation of apk files over a usb cable.

    4. Re:Google probably lobbied for app store exemption by ISayWeOnlyToBePolite · · Score: 3, Informative

      No need for special lobbying - store needs to remain to allow installation of new software. Otherwise people would delete everything and be left with no way to fix it themselves.

      No. There's an out.

      the ADB interface allows the installation of apk files over a usb cable.

      Or it could be a function in the customer service app.

    5. Re:Google probably lobbied for app store exemption by Chatterton · · Score: 2

      But the factory default contain the install of these bloatwares. And when it is Facebook that take over your phone your are skrewed :/

    6. Re:Google probably lobbied for app store exemption by johnsie · · Score: 1, Informative

      Installation of APK files is a big security risk. Having an properly manged app market that checks packages are safe is the best way to make sure people don't install malware on their devices. Apple are doing the best job at that bet Google is catching up. Sideloading is so fcking dangerous.

    7. Re:Google probably lobbied for app store exemption by wierd_w · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Agreed, I was point out that you can potentially get the playstore back again if somebody deletes it.

      (and a properly backed up system image will have a legit copy in the backup.)

      Sideloading is intended for testing apps, and for installing private apps that are not on the app store. However, it can be used to get out of the sticky problem that was posed-- what happens when end user deletes the store app.

    8. Re:Google probably lobbied for app store exemption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Installation of APK files is a big security risk.

      Nope. Only APKs downloaded from unknown sources carry such risk. In this case, it was about sideloading apps downloaded from google itself. Stop shilling for the "walled garden", which contains malware anyway thanks to sloppy "policing".

    9. Re:Google probably lobbied for app store exemption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      User control over their devices is the most dangerous thing out there. And the most necessary. Why do you hate freedom?

    10. Re:Google probably lobbied for app store exemption by drinkypoo · · Score: 3, Informative

      "Installation of APK files is a big security risk. Having an properly manged app market that checks packages are safe is the best way to make sure people don't install malware on their devices. Apple are doing the best job at that bet Google is catching up."

      Apple and Google have both delivered malware through their app stores. App stores don't make you safe.

      "Sideloading is so fcking dangerous."

      Do you need the ghost of Steve jobs to hold your dick for you while you piss, too? Loading software from any source is an inherently risky activity, but taking the ability to sideload away from the user is turning their general purpose computing device into a toaster.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    11. Re:Google probably lobbied for app store exemption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Are you kidding? Android and iOS both allow you to side load. If anything, android is the more dangerous one too. I don't see how this was any slight at android or Steve Jobs.

    12. Re:Google probably lobbied for app store exemption by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      Are you kidding? Android and iOS both allow you to side load.

      iOS requires you to jump through hoops, Android doesn't. So no, I'm not kidding.

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    13. Re:Google probably lobbied for app store exemption by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Sideloading is so fcking dangerous.

      Only to idiots who want to pirate shit, or who click on "yes" to everything with no reading involved.

      For everyone else it's no more difficult than keeping malware off of a PC. It's only the "device = appliance = brain off" crowd that has issues with it. For those people I say go buy a new iShiny and be happy.

      Installation of APK files is a big security risk. Having an properly manged app market that checks packages are safe is the best way to make sure people don't install malware on their devices. Apple are doing the best job at that bet Google is catching up.

      Also BTW, APK files are what Google Play installs. The only difference between Google Play and a sideload is the app ID that requested the package installer to run. So no, sideloading is no more or less safe than Google Play from that perspective.

  7. Only in Korea? by dmt0 · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Does it mean that there will be a special firmware version just for Korea with deletable bloatware and the same old for everybody else?

    1. Re:Only in Korea? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Of course. Combine that with factory installed apps on the system partition.... they won't get any extra space back by uninstalling anyway

    2. Re:Only in Korea? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      You don't have to buy Samsung, Nokia has got some pretty good smart phones running Android One with no bloatware.

    3. Re:Only in Korea? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nonsens, Android One has lots of bloateware. Beeing made by Google, does not make it any less bloatware.

    4. Re:Only in Korea? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Space is usually not the issue.
      The things we want is to get control of battery and data usage.

      Unfortunately it doesn't tell very much that 69.2% of the battery is used by "Android system" and another 15.0% by "Android".

    5. Re:Only in Korea? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Does it mean that there will be a special firmware version just for Korea with deletable bloatware and the same old for everybody else?

      Well, "globalization" works both ways. You can order a phone from Korea if need be. Sure, you may then have to change the language and the sw keyboard from Korean to English, but it'd be fine after that. Americans already buy unlocked phones from Europe, to avoid carrier lock-in. Easier, as Europe has English-language phones.

    6. Re: Only in Korea? by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      As far as battery and data usage go, disabling the app is just as good as deleting it.

    7. Re:Only in Korea? by Dustie · · Score: 1

      Is the App-store and Safari etc. bloatware in iOS? Or is it different when Apple does it?

    8. Re: Only in Korea? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Don't have a clue what Apple do, guess they have some bloatware too.

      But it does not change the fact, Android One contains uninstallable Google bloatware just like any other Android variant.

    9. Re: Only in Korea? by sd4f · · Score: 1

      I'm not being critical of you personally, but when people sugarcoat bad aspects of android as if it were a 'feature', it really seems like it's shilling. The undeletable preinstalled bloatware is incredibly annoying. Merely being able to disable it, sucks too. Why on earth is it a feature of android that some apps can't be deleted?

      When I first got an android phone, I made the mistake of getting one from a carrier, so it came with a fair bit of bloatware, and updates delayed even more than just the manufacturer. Problem is, the community just says it's my fault because I got a carrier branded phone, because android/google is beyond criticism and can't possibly be flawed at all.

    10. Re: Only in Korea? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Maybe you meant un-uninstallable?

    11. Re: Only in Korea? by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      I'm not being critical of you personally, but when people sugarcoat bad aspects of android as if it were a 'feature', it really seems like it's shilling.

      If you're not being critical of me, why would you bring this up out of the blue? If you're not accusing me of doing it, who exactly have you seen do this, and what does it have to do with my comment?

      The undeletable preinstalled bloatware is incredibly annoying. Merely being able to disable it, sucks too.

      I understand that the bloat is annoying, but what sucks about "merely being able to disable it"? Is it just one of those pet-peeve things? If not, what's the actual difference between deleting it and disabling it, and how does it impact you?

      Why on earth is it a feature of android that some apps can't be deleted?

      It's not; the feature is being able to factory reset the phone to it's original condition at any time. The fact that you cannot delete parts of the original system is a byproduct of that.

      Don't pretend that this is an android only thing, either. I've never seen a phone which lets you arbitrarily delete included programs. My original 1990s Nokia certainly wouldn't let you do that, nor any of my subsequent flip phones or BlackBerrys. And certainly the iCrap devices won't let you delete or modify the system in any significant way. So this has always been standard across all mobile devices; the only thing that differs is how much crap is bundled onto them in the first place.

      Android is actually superior in one respect; being open source it is relatively easy for me to replace the entire OS on my android phone with a stripped down and customized version. I can't really do that with any of the competing choices.

    12. Re: Only in Korea? by sd4f · · Score: 1

      If you're not being critical of me, why would you bring this up out of the blue? If you're not accusing me of doing it, who exactly have you seen do this, and what does it have to do with my comment?

      The community, as I mentioned in my last paragraph, does this all the time, so while I'm not being personal in my criticism to you specifically, what you say is consistently touted by the android/google shills around.

      I understand that the bloat is annoying, but what sucks about "merely being able to disable it"? Is it just one of those pet-peeve things? If not, what's the actual difference between deleting it and disabling it, and how does it impact you?

      Why should it matter how I want to use my device? If I want to delete crap, why shouldn't I be able to? If I want to reclaim space from bloatware which I know I'll never use, why can't I even remove it from the image? Next you'll say that I'm holding my phone wrong...

      Don't pretend that this is an android only thing, either. I've never seen a phone which lets you arbitrarily delete included programs. My original 1990s Nokia certainly wouldn't let you do that, nor any of my subsequent flip phones or BlackBerrys. And certainly the iCrap devices won't let you delete or modify the system in any significant way. So this has always been standard across all mobile devices; the only thing that differs is how much crap is bundled onto them in the first place.

      Your last point is basically the problem; android consistently gets ridiculous amounts of bloatware and crapware included in it. Why does iOS and even windows phone (when it was a thing) manage to avoid that?

      Android is actually superior in one respect; being open source it is relatively easy for me to replace the entire OS on my android phone with a stripped down and customized version. I can't really do that with any of the competing choices.

      AOSP is open source, while Android on all phones being sold, is not. Replacing the entire OS requires an unlocked bootloader, something which is not always available. This is google/manufacturers doing a bait and switch, but the neckbeards haven't quite caught on, because while they may proclaim these features, reality is even they don't use them, but think they're still there.

    13. Re: Only in Korea? by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      The community, as I mentioned in my last paragraph ...

      I asked what it has to do with my comment, and you just repeated your complaints about "the community". You didn't answer me at all.

      Why should it matter how I ...

      I asked what the difference was, and why it bothered you. Again, you didn't answer my question at all.

      Your last point is basically the problem; android consistently gets ridiculous amounts of bloatware and crapware included in it. Why does iOS and even windows phone (when it was a thing) manage to avoid that?

      They don't; you're delusional. Let's see what T-Mobile says about their phones.

      https://support.t-mobile.com/d...
      Apple iOS 12 = 44 applications.

      https://support.t-mobile.com/d...
      Microsoft Lumia 640 = 46 applications.

      https://support.t-mobile.com/d...
      Galaxy S8 = 49 applications.

      That's a difference barely worth mentioning. Apple and Microsoft come with plenty of bloat, and no, you can't remove it.

      Compare them to a lighter android phone:
      https://support.t-mobile.com/d...
      OnePlus 6T = 32 applications.

      You're whining about android devices as if they were all the same. How about you exercise that brain of yours and buy one which is loaded with less crap than an iPhone or a Windows Phone, rather than more?

      AOSP is open source, while Android on all phones being sold, is not.

      AOSP is android. You know, as in Android Open Source Project. Android is open source. This isn't hard.

      Replacing the entire OS requires an unlocked bootloader, something which is not always available.

      It's never available on non-android phones, except unofficially. I'll take "available sometimes" over "available never", thanks.

      This is google/manufacturers doing a bait and switch, but the neckbeards haven't quite caught on, because while they may proclaim these features, reality is even they don't use them, but think they're still there.

      I've unlocked and re-flashed every android phone and tablet I've ever owned. My current phone is running LineageOS 15.1; my old phone (backup for travel) is on 16.1. I've gone through multiple tablets; the one I currently have was good enough stock that I didn't bother unlocking the bootloader for about 2 years, but I did it recently after the last manufacturer update pulled an Apple and made it slower with worse battery life. It is now also on LineageOS, and performing better than when it was new.

    14. Re:Only in Korea? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      I'm more interested in this magic bloatware free base image. The key part about Android is that the bloatware is part of the read only image of the phone and the apps then download on first acceptance of play store conditions. That's the reason why there is only a "disable" function but you can't fundamentally uninstall it. You can only get the bloatware back to its factory shipped condition.

      Obeying this ruling will require shipping a device with a different configuration than Android builds normally do.

    15. Re: Only in Korea? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      This is absolutely not true.

      That extra space taken up on the storage will result in extra wear-leveling work by the storage firmware as the user writes additional data to the disk.

    16. Re: Only in Korea? by sd4f · · Score: 1

      I did answer your questions. If your command of english is so weak as to not being able to understand that I was giving you the benefit of the doubt, then I can't help you. Maybe enrol into some english classes. I'm not being critical of you if english isn't your native language.

      They don't; you're delusional. Let's see what T-Mobile says about their phones.

      ...

      That's a difference barely worth mentioning. Apple and Microsoft come with plenty of bloat, and no, you can't remove it.

      I think it's you who is deluded, have a look at those lists and you can clearly see most of the apps are from the manufactuer/OS and core functions of the phone. Just t-mobile apps, android has 5, WP has 1 and iOS has 0. Also regarding that list, I'm not familiar with iOS, but certainly on WP, many of those apps can be uninstalled (I think at least 24 of them) and you do get some space back. A reinstall on WP requires apps to be downloaded from the store, they're not included in the recovery partition, only the core OS apps which are not uninstallable, such as phone, messaging, web browser, etc... Regarding OnePlus, well that's a massive feature of theirs in being lightweight. It's why they sell so many phones.

      Lastly, AOSP =/= Android. Here's an excellent article from Ars Technica explaining the situation.

      You're whining about android devices as if they were all the same. How about you exercise that brain of yours and buy one which is loaded with less crap than an iPhone or a Windows Phone, rather than more?

      And we've gone full circle here. Like I said in my first post (if you could comprehend it), I had this problem with my first android phone, not afterwards. When you get about the worst experience the platform has to offer, you do learn a lot about the do's and don'ts. But please note what I said;

      Problem is, the community just says it's my fault because I got a carrier branded phone, because android/google is beyond criticism and can't possibly be flawed at all.

      But, just how it is mostly the case, the community (this time that includes you!) just says that I'm doing it wrong, so again, it's not a flaw, it's a feature. If you want to reinstall the OS and do all that stuff, more power to you, I just want a device that works, for me, out of the box. There are some of those around, even android devices, but it really narrows down to only a couple of manufacturers, and no OnePlus is not one of them, due to undocumented spyware 'features'.

  8. Am I alone— by Barny · · Score: 4, Insightful

    In noticing that the article linked is 5 years old?

    I mean, I know /. usually lags a little, but this is crazy.

    --
    ...
    /me sighs
    1. Re:Am I alone— by Anubis+IV · · Score: 3, Funny

      Reading the article is like looking at how the sausage is made: it leaves you with questions you don’t want answered.

    2. Re: Am I alone— by TimMD909 · · Score: 1

      We'll let you know in 5 years. Stand by.

    3. Re:Am I alone— by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      five years? i bet samsung still doesn't abide by it.

    4. Re: Am I alone— by Barny · · Score: 3, Funny

      This latency sucks.

      --
      ...
      /me sighs
    5. Re:Am I alone— by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      What? You read the article? That is unpossible.

    6. Re: Am I alone— by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Nope, I caught that one the moment I saw one of the commenters praising windows phone. It's been at least 2 years since any of the ten people who bought a windows phone have praised it.

    7. Re:Am I alone— by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Slashdot articles are pulled from pulled from TechCrunch and TheVerge.

      Yes, TechCrunch does currently have this story:

      https://techcrunch.com/2019/01...

    8. Re:Am I alone— by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      ...So now, 5 years later when the guidelines are surely implemented by now, is the pre-installed bloatware deletable?

    9. Re:Am I alone— by sad_ · · Score: 1

      so are they making special phones for S Korea then? because everybody else in the world is still not able to remove pre-installed bloat from their phone.

      --
      On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
    10. Re:Am I alone— by BlackOverflow · · Score: 1

      I guess this never came to the US in the last 5 years. All my Motorola phones have had an NFL app that I have and would never use, but I can't delete it, only disable it. This is really frustrating because it's using up valuable storage space.

    11. Re: Am I alone— by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      No, it's not. Pre-installed apps are stored on the system partition. Deleting it would make absolutely no difference to your usable space.

    12. Re: Am I alone— by swillden · · Score: 1

      No, it's not. Pre-installed apps are stored on the system partition. Deleting it would make absolutely no difference to your usable space.

      The storage used by the system partition is carved out of the same pool of storage used by the data partition. If the apps weren't pre-installed, the system partition would be smaller and the data partition would be larger.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    13. Re:Am I alone— by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The hardware is the same, the firmware differs.

      It's not like a person changes the settings for each phone depending on market, they already install different images depending on market so this is a non-issue for the manufacturers.

    14. Re: Am I alone— by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      The system partition is already far larger than it needs to be. Manufactures reserve space for future upgrades. There's no reason to think that they would significantly shrink the system partition just because you forced them to make some of the bloat deletable ... especially since they would almost certainly maintain copies of it on the system partition in order to restore them during a "factory reset".

      If we really wanted to maximize the amount of space we would just eliminate partitioning entirely. Maybe use BTRFS on android and make the system "partition" just a subvolume, and then have the OS monitor free space and reserve just enough so that it doesn't run into issues. That would definitely give you your space back. However, it's a solution in search of a problem. Most modern phones have way more free space than they really need, and a couple hundred megabytes (or even a whole gigabyte) isn't going to make any real difference to the consumer. Your problem is likely caused entirely by the fact that you have a much older phone which was severely limited on space to begin with.

    15. Re: Am I alone— by swillden · · Score: 1

      The system partition is already far larger than it needs to be. Manufactures reserve space for future upgrades. There's no reason to think that they would significantly shrink the system partition just because you forced them to make some of the bloat deletable

      OEMs leave extra space for upgrades, but they definitely make them smaller when fewer apps are preinstalled. I've spoken to several about exactly this topic.

      --
      Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
    16. Re: Am I alone— by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      That's possible; I have no inside info on how exactly they make those determinations so I'm fine with deferring to your anecdote. Either way it's irrelevant. Modern phones come with 32 GB of storage minimum, and most have 64+. Minimizing the system partition would have been helpful when the standard was 8-16, but these days it's entirely pointless. And any such changes aren't going to help you with your old phone anyway.

  9. Re:Am I alone-- by Tablizer · · Score: 2

    the article linked is 5 years old

    If you complain, a dupe will be posted.

    --
    Table-ized A.I.
  10. Re: So here's what Mueller should rule by reiterate · · Score: 2, Funny

    What is even happening? Who is spending all of this time putting these weird comments into every story on here?

  11. Re: Google probably lobbied for app store exemptio by Tomahawk · · Score: 1

    Trying explaining that to your grandmother...

  12. Dialer? by Tomahawk · · Score: 1

    Considering that this is about mobile phones, why isn't the phone dialer on the list of exemptions?

    1. Re:Dialer? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Many phones come with a dialler that runs incoming phone numbers past commercial scam databases. People that are more concerned about keeping their phone history secret than worry about being scammed might want to remove the built in dialler completely and replace with something simpler.

  13. Re:Am I alone-- by Barny · · Score: 1

    What, next year?

    --
    ...
    /me sighs
  14. Re: Google probably lobbied for app store exemptio by wierd_w · · Score: 4, Informative

    Granny wont be the one doing the fixing. That's "what she has you for, dear."

    Since it is you that needs to know, why bother telling her?

    Just turn on developer mode, plug in the damn cable, do the one liner from the console, and stop being a bitch about it. :P

    In case you were wondering, it's

    abd install [somefile.apk]

    AND-- if you want to back up all of granny's stuff, modern android versions support a backup operation, so you can back up all of granny's apps and their associated private data too, and restore it just as easily. (so when she deletes everything and corks up her phone, you can just restore everything and say fuckit.)

    See this handy little article for details.

    https://9to5google.com/2017/11...

  15. Re: So here's what Mueller should rule by astrofurter · · Score: 2

    Propaganda operators, domestic and foreign both I suspect.

    https://cryptome.org/2012/07/g...

  16. The phone companies will find a loophole by rossz · · Score: 1

    I don't know about Korean phone companies, but the American ones will make sure they have a loophole. For example, allow stuff to be deleted, but reinstall it with the next "patch" which happens at least weekly. Yes, I know patches aren't that often, but they will be.

    --
    -- Will program for bandwidth
  17. Re: Google probably lobbied for app store exemptio by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Granny wouldn't uninstall it in the first place. And any half-brain with half a clue who would can also figure out how to do a factory reset and not be so stupid the second time around.

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  18. Re:Am I alone-- by Opportunist · · Score: 1

    Well, at least within two years. What lightning reaction do you expect here?

    --
    We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
  19. Re: Google probably lobbied for app store exemptio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    You have no idea how Android apps work in the background if you think just being there will drain your battery.

  20. good, its about time by FudRucker · · Score: 1

    now i can finally delete facebook, microsoft office, and other crap i never use, at the moment i can disable these apps but i can not delete them, now i expect a system update to change that so i can finally uninstall all the unused third party crapware

    --
    Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    1. Re:good, its about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      You need to buy a phone from Korea sold after the law have become active first.

      Isn't it interesting how the market haven't provided you with what you want and you have to rely on the legislation in another country for companies to get it.

      It is almost as if market capitalism doesn't work as advertised unless there are more than a hundred vendors to choose from.

    2. Re: good, its about time by Parker+Lewis · · Score: 1

      You can buy mobiles manufactured by state-owned companies.

    3. Re:good, its about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      The market provides, in this case. When you want something unusual, look for niche suppliers. Buy a Fairphone, if non-bloat is the primary concern.

      Or buy one of the many phones supported by cyanogen, and "upgrade". When the ROM is changed, even the "factory reset" is changed to what you want.

    4. Re:good, its about time by FudRucker · · Score: 1

      thats what i am going to do when it comes time to buy a new phone, i will go to a brick & mortar and ask to see the phone and i will open the settings - apps and see if there are third party apps and if they can be uninstalled, i dont like the lock in of third party apps, Samsung phones are great hardware but the software side of things has some annoyances

      --
      Politics is Treachery, Religion is Brainwashing
    5. Re: good, its about time by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      Isn't it interesting how the market haven't provided you with what you want and you have to rely on the legislation in another country for companies to get it.

      It is almost as if market capitalism doesn't work as advertised unless there are more than a hundred vendors to choose from.

      Market capitalism has never meant that every whim of every individual will be satisfied. You're thinking of "magic".

    6. Re:good, its about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      We have not had free capitalism in many years. Most people get phones thru the carrier duopoly, phones loaded with crapware and carrier wares designed to track & gather much personal information.
      Even my OnePlus phones bought from OnePlus are designed with communist Chinese government controls. If OnePlus was free to design phones, Google firmwares & apps still control what the phone may do and MUST do. Capitalism is not to blame here. Every effort to sell phones with other OSs has been wrecked by non market forces.

    7. Re: good, its about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Good, keep that in mind next time someone claims that the market will sort something out.

    8. Re: good, its about time by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      I always do. I've yet to see anyone other than you suggest that the market is supposed to be magic, though.

    9. Re:good, its about time by Solandri · · Score: 1

      It is almost as if market capitalism doesn't work as advertised unless there are more than a hundred vendors to choose from.

      It's ironic that you would level that charge against an industry which was nearly crippled by overzealous regulation. The EU mandated all phones must adhere to the GSM standard. A bunch of regulators sat down, and stamped out what they thought would be the ideal way to use the technology, and mandated that everyone use the system they came up with. Most countries outside the EU followed suit. The U.S. did not, and allowed competing phone standards. One of these was CDMA.

      GSM worked fine for voice communication, but it turned out to have a fatal flaw when cellular data service became more common. You see, GSM mandated the use of TDMA - each phone is assigned a timeslice and takes turns talking to the tower. That's fine for low-bandwidth applications like voice. But for high-bandwidth data, it results in bandwidth being wasted on phones which needed little or no data during their timeslice.

      OTOH, CDMA allows all devices to talk to the tower simultaneously. The tower tells them apart via orthogonal codes (kinda like writing horizontally and vertically on the same sheet of paper - the letters are orthogonal enough for you to distinguish which are supposed to be read horizontally, which vertically). The transmissions of other phones then just raise the noise floor, which automatically divides all the available bandwidth equally between all phones which happen to be transmitting at that moment. If only one phone transmits, it gets all the bandwidth. If a dozen phones transmit simultaneously, they each get 1/12th the bandwidth.

      CDMA worked so well for data that within a year, GSM threw in the towel, licensed CDMA, and included it in their UMTS spec for cellular data. That's right, CDMA won the GSM vs CDMA war. Your 3G GSM phone used wideband CDMA for data. That's why CDMA phones got 3G about a year before GSM phones - they just had to flip the existing CDMA radio from voice mode to data mode, while GSM users needed to get a new phone. That's why GSM phones could talk and use data at the same time - they had a TDMA radio for voice, and a W-CDMA radio for data, while CDMA phones only had a single CDMA radio.

      If the U.S. regulators had followed the EU and required GSM, we probably would be stuck around 1 Mbps data speeds today. Newer technologies like LTE (which mostly uses OFDMA - like CDMA except using orthogonal frequencies instead of orthogonal codes) likely wouldn't exist or would still be in the research stages. CDMA was the test case which proved that this crazy "every phone transmits at the same time and we use orthogonality to tell them apart" scheme actually worked when scaled up to a nationwide cellular network. So we narrowly averted a regulatory disaster with cell phones. Capitalism saved the industry, and with only two competitors too.

      Capitalism can fail. Regulation can fail. The key is not to become so ideologically beholden to one that you consider it to be infallible, and focus only on failure modes of the other while ignoring cases where your chosen ideology fails.

    10. Re:good, its about time by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

      Your phones come with Facebook and MS Office pre-installed? Sounds like you need to buy different phones.

    11. Re:good, its about time by mvdwege · · Score: 1

      That's a neat bit of revisionism there. GSM ruled the actual world (except the US) for voice communication; it was so succesful that by the time it needed an update for high-bandwidth data, the owners of the CDMA IP begged to be taken into the UMTS standard.

      --
      "I know I will be modded down for this": where's the option '-1, Asking for it'?
  21. The question is why they made it ever not be by DrXym · · Score: 1
    Write the crapware apps to a writable partition of the phone. If people choose to delete the apps, they go away forever. If they choose to keep them, then the app will update like any other, e.g. the Facebook placeholder app gets replaced by the latest from the store. The only slightly tricky part is for a factory reset where the default apps have to be reinstated to the write partition from some tarball which does reside in the read partition for that purpose and no other.

    This is moderately more effort to do than burning them into the read only partition but not by much.

  22. Re: Google probably lobbied for app store exemptio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    BS
    The user can download the store app and install it manually. Just get the .apk file from the provider. Like fdroid.

  23. iOS ? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Will , how will Apple comply?

    Android should be easier and suspect the larger threat to iOS which would be more reluctant to comply.

    1. Re:iOS ? by Dustie · · Score: 1

      Can't wait to get rid of Safari!

  24. Re: So here's what Mueller should rule by subie · · Score: 0

    As a Democrat, even I'm getting tired of these anti trump copy paste comments. Give it a rest already and move on with your life. Every article on slashdot has the same basic crap said about trump and nothing to do with the article. Go get a new hobby Alice!

  25. Fun to be had! by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    "...deletable except for four necessary items related to Wi-Fi connectivity, near-field communication (NFC), the customer service center and the app store."

    Make the dialer app deletable and don't have it on an app store anywhere. Then charge idiots who uninstall it $1000 a pop to reinstall :)

    There will be plenty of idiots who do it.

  26. Outstanding! by ilsaloving · · Score: 1

    Now if only this applies to phones in North America as well...

  27. Great news! by Dustie · · Score: 1

    I can finally delete the App-store and Safari!

  28. So what happened by Paradise+Pete · · Score: 1

    Considering that this is from five years ago, how did it work out? Was it effective?

  29. Re: Google probably lobbied for app store exemptio by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    I have yet to see an ADB backup that was actually able to restore everything on the phone. It gets a lot of the data and is probably good enough, but it wasn't everything.

  30. Subscribe To Pewdiepie by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Apply these rules in India and watch T Series lose!

  31. Re:That means you can even delete the adblocker by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 0

    Not GayPK, APK, or the guy I'm replying to.

    Just wanted to say that it made me laugh (Not being sarcastic or ironic. I really did chuckle out loud) that at least we know YOU, Anonymous Coward, are not APK, since you didn't use the rather obvious writing style that APK uses.

    lol.