Tesla Hacker Launches Open-Source Project 'FreedomEV' To Run On Rooted Teslas, Bring New Wi-Fi Hotspot and Anti-Tracking Features (freedomev.com)

Slashdot reader internet-redstar writes: The Tesla Hacker, Jasper Nuyens -- who uncovered Tesla's "unconfirmed lane change" last year -- now launched at FOSDEM an open-source project called "FreedomEV" to run on top of rooted Teslas. It adds new features to the vehicles, such as a "Hotspot Mode" for in-car Wi-Fi and a "Cloak Mode" to prevent all location tracking and more. It hopes to become available for other cars too. Full presentation video can be found here. The Github project and the website. He is looking for contributors and support from Tesla.

Comments

It's not your car

[Anonymous Coward]

You are just paying a license to drive one of Elons

Re: It's not your car

[Anonymous Coward]

Elon doesn't own any vehicles either ... Protip for the cubicle commandos, CEOs of big companies usually drive company owned cars. They don't have to spend personal money on them or deal with the tax or depreciation liabilities like regular chumps do.

You don't get obscenely wealthy by working hard, you do it by outsmarting those too stupid to think up their own rules.

Re:It's not your car

[AmiMoJo]

Tesla is shipping 100kWh batteries that are software limited to 75kWh for their cheaper cars. Would be nice if you could unlock the extra 25% capacity.

Re:It's not your car

[AHuxley]

When its pulled out of a lake and repaired?

Re:It's not your car

[phayes]

Those purchasing the 75kWH batteries are getting batteries that will last much longer and get 25kWH upgrades in case of emergencies like hurricanes.

Unlocking the latent capacity permanently is simplicity itself: Pay for the 25kWH upgrade -- Oh but you want it for free... Do you still want a pony too?

Re:It's not your car

[Anonymous Coward]

Those purchasing the 75kWH batteries are getting batteries that will last much longer and get 25kWH upgrades in case of emergencies like hurricanes.

Unlocking the latent capacity permanently is simplicity itself: Pay for the 25kWH upgrade -- Oh but you want it for free... Do you still want a pony too?

Many of us have the financial sense not to allow ourselves to be nickel and dimed for BS reasons.

Re:It's not your car

[AmiMoJo]

You can just set the charge limit to 75% if you want to extend your battery life by the same amount. And yeah, I want it for free, it's my car and if I decide I don't need Tesla's on-going support I'll maximize its performance and utility for myself, thank you very much.

Re: It's not your car

[Anonymous Coward]

No Ami, they're not doing that anymore. They had always intended on putting smaller packs in the cheaper cars, but early production issues made it more cost effective to just stuff the larger pack in all of them.

Yes, technically the packs have a longer life than what is advertised. But draining them too much can degrade them faster, so they're limited to prevent overdrain... just like the batteries in your smartphone. It's very similar to how HDD and SSD have more actual capacity than advertised, the extra is kept "hidden" in order to make them have a longer effective lifespan.

Re: It's not your car

[Anonymous Coward]

Tesla fanboi's to the rescue

Re: It's not your car

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you have a point?

numbnuts

Re: It's not your car

[Aighearach]

News flash: "regular chumps" don't "deal with... depreciation liabilities."

They simply buy a car, and years later they sell it for much less.

Re:It's not your car

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you an idiot?

Pay extra to get full use of the battery? That makes sense to you? The battery is the big cost and Tesla is putting it in a cheaper car AND spending money to write software to gimp the battery. So the cheaper car costs more to produce then the expensive one.

It is like buying a computer that has a 12 core 4.5 Ghz processor in it but has software installed that limits it to 2 cores and 3 Ghz but is cheaper then the computer without the limit. Same hardware inside though.

You have to be a special kind of moron to think that is a good idea.

numbnuts

Re:It's not your car

[sjames]

Do you pay your electrician a monthly fee to come over and turn your living room light on for you at sunset?

Re:It's not your car

[phayes]

Why? Do you? Do you also pay him to post obtuse remarks here on /.?

As I noted earlier there are legitimate reasons for people to prefer buying the 75kWH capacity that is delivered in a 100kWH package that are not nullified by your wanting a freebie 25kWH upgrade.

Re:It's not your car

[phayes]

Only superficially. 75% of 75kWH != 100% of 75kWH in terms of range and performance, and 75% of 100kWH will have a longer lifetime as well. That just leaves your wanting to get a freebie 25kWH which you attempt to justify with "because I want".

Re:It's not your car

[sjames]

Just like I want my light on for free. There exists a switch. It's mine, I paid for it. I expect to be allowed to flip it.

Re:It's not your car

[Richard_at_work]

They don't need to justify it.

Tesla sold and shipped the hardware. They just shipped better hardware than was paid for. But they still shipped it.

It's now the buyers hardware, they can do with it whatever they want, so long as they stay within the law

So no, they don't need to justify wanting a "freebie", Tesla already gave them it.

What people like you are doing however is attempting to justify why people can't do stuff with the hardware they undeniably own.

Re:It's not your car

[Anonymous Coward]

What people like you are doing however is attempting to justify why people can't do stuff with the hardware they undeniably own.

What? No we aren't. If AmiMoJo wants to hack their own car, they are free to do so.

But that isn't what they are asking for. They are asking for Tesla to unlock the full 100 kWH for them, for free. And Tesla is under no obligation to do so. Again, AmiMoJo is free to do whatever the fuck they want to the hardware they bought, but expecting Tesla to do it for them at no additional cost is ludicrous.

Re:It's not your car

[AmiMoJo]

No, I'm saying I'll hack my car to unlock it. GP was correct.

Re:It's not your car

[Anonymous Coward]

No, I'm saying I'll hack my car to unlock it. GP was correct.

Actually, what you said was:

And yeah, I want it for free, it's my car and if I decide I don't need Tesla's on-going support I'll maximize its performance and utility for myself, thank you very much.

That sounds less like you will do the work of unlocking the capacity, and more like you want someone else (ie, Tesla) to do the work of unlocking the capacity at no additional cost to you.

But if you truly did mean that you will hack the car yourself, I can accept that you had previously misspoke. And like I said I have no problem with you hacking the car yourself.

If i was an insurance

[xonen]

Now if i was an insurance company, i would call the insurance void for any car with rooted software.

Not because this particular software is so dangerous, but other software maybe is. That, and the manufacturer can no longer be held liable and/or the vehicle is not on the road as when in tested conditions that approved it. Rooting your car's software might have all kind of unexpected side effects. Even if it's only the entertainment system, in a Tesla that's still highly integrated with the rest of the car.

Now of course i'm not an insurance company, and i would prefer cars to have a full stack of open-source software, that the user could upgrade or change at will. But i do think there are legal issues that have to be dealt with, in case of an error, being it user or software or company's fault.

Re:If i was an insurance

[Viol8]

Agreed. Rooting a mobile phone is one thing, rooting something that weights 2 tons and can do 150mph is something else entirely and could have fatal consequences to occupants and bystanders.

Re:If i was an insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

Standard insurance question - is your car "modified"? Modify the car and fail to declare it and yes it'll void the insurance. Tell them and they'll insure you but you'll be subject to much higher premiums as they can't assess the risk accurately any longer.

Re:If i was an insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

If i was an insurance, i'd be one of those crooked insurances with tiny text, that wouldn't pay for anything ever. Oh wait, that's just a standard insurance.

Anyway, i know this will be shot down ASAP. Can't have people making their lives better.

Re:If i was an insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed as well.

If a car is stock, then the car manufacturer is responsible. Modification to conventional cars often does not affect the mechanical properties of the car or the safety of the car, only things like radios, speakers and idiot-switches.

If you change how the car actually works, then if I was an Insurance company I would immediately cancel the insurance on the vehicle and alert the police that there is an unsafe vehicle.

Like altering the EV software might be worse than driving without your lights on. During perfect conditions, yes maybe the car will operate properly, but add a little bit of rain or snow, and you are asking to be royally screwed.

Then again, if enough people actually contributed to such a project so that they would include the driving characteristics of their city and state, maybe they could surpass the EV manufacturer's own software (such as how the WiFi router WRT54G custom firmware surpassed the stock firmware by leaps.)

Like even a comparison to wireless phones is apt, as rooted firmware often has no access to the radio modem. You might be able to adjust the power output from the WiFi part however. If you could alter how the LTE radio worked, you could eavesdrop or drown out other devices.

Re:If i was an insurance

[internet-redstar]

Now if i was an insurance company, i would call the insurance void for any car with rooted software

When you are making modifications to the drive train, or modify your car so it's value increases, you should report it to insurance. These things are different in most countries, but car modification, modding or tuning exists already for a long time. Advise for your specific region is certainly available.

It is typically focused on things which DO MATTER with respect to safety: changing the suspension, making the car more powerful and things like that. An insurance can't claim that the cause of an accident is because of an unrelated issue, and the cars are build to ensure that even a reboot of the entertainment system will not interfere with its safe operation.

That being said, insurance companies are not know for being reasonable everywhere. And this FreedomEV project is made specifically so it can be easily enabled and disabled. So you could - for example - insert the USB stick when parked at a Supercharger to enable Hotspot Mode. Of watch movies (when that feature gets added). Watching movies in a car is illegal in most countries unless the car is parked, and this can be easily checked by the software.

Cars where never before in scope for us as OpenSource enthousiasts, glad this is finally changing!

Re:If i was an insurance

[geggam]

Yet you can do complete overhauls of mechanical cars legally.

Personal responsibility is what is missing here. If you don't have the skill to do it. Don't

Re:If i was an insurance

[olddoc]

All these posts about auto insurance are quite valid. If you fell asleep and hit a van full of children and your insurance refused to pay you would be screwed. Tesla would also be within their rights to not pay warranty claims either. If your car's 100kWh battery failed and you were running modified software that affected the charging system you might have to buy a new battery pack with $30,000 cash. I really think that rooting a $40,000 to $140,000 car with an 8 year battery warranty is financially very risky!

Re: If i was an insurance

[c6gunner]

I've always wondered about that. What exactly does "modified" mean? If I have to change my calipers and use non-OEM ones, is the car now modified? What about if a shop installs non-OEM shocks? Is that a modification?

The previous guy talked about even software changes to the entertainment system could potentially be dangerous ... how is that different than having a custom deck put in? Does the insurance company consider a custom deck to be a "modification" which can void your policy?

It all seems rather nebulous.

Re:If i was an insurance

[markdavis]

>"Now if i was an insurance company, i would call the insurance void for any car with rooted software."

I agree that it is way dangerous to just "root" a car and start changing stuff. But what if it were a professional tuning/mod company who does it for a living and spends a lot of time, money, and effort making specific, tested changes that are even independently reviewed/certified? I could envision "Private Car Inc" or something where they offer a mod that gives the user an on/off switch for privacy- something that stops location and driving behavior and occupant metrics storage and transmission of that data to anyone. In no way does that affect the safety of the car, it just gives the operator the ability to have privacy again.

Car manufacturers are not going to offer actual privacy on their own. All they are going to do is MAYBE "promise" not to misuse all that data they collect and store. And those promises are not only weak, can change at any moment, and are overridden by warrants and such, but such data can and will be leaked and stolen. The only true privacy is not to collect/store such data in the first place.

Re:If i was an insurance

[nnull]

Huh? People modify their cars all the time. Even the computer in cars. Why is Tesla all of the sudden the exception here?

Re:If i was an insurance

[phayes]

Changing the injection profile of a ICE car has a very circumcised impact and does not have the same security risks as mucking around the same computers that control the steering acceleration and braking on a Tesla. Do you also play with matches and wonder how people die in building fires?

Re:If i was an insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you also play with matches and wonder how people die in building fires?

Yep, all the fucking time. You won't believe how easy it is to play with matches safely.

Re:If i was an insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

Changing the mechanics of something that you can see and feel with your hands and has fairly simplistic testing parameters is one thing. The software that runs on these vehicles is a few orders of magnitude more complex. It takes quite a team of people to assemble this software, and it would take quite a team of people to tweak it to the original assurances.

I write software for a living, and I'm with the GP here - you really want to leave any potential liability in the hands of the publicly traded automobile manufacturer. As soon as your rooted car mows down a kid waiting for a school bus, your entire family's capability to lead even a modest lifestyle will be removed for the rest of their lives.

Re: If i was an insurance

[fustakrakich]

What exactly does "modified" mean? If I have to change my calipers and use non-OEM ones, is the car now modified? What about if a shop installs non-OEM shocks? Is that a modification?

Yes, if insurance (or even the state) wants to play it that way, they would be within their rights. We already have those rules for aircraft.

The previous guy talked about even software changes to the entertainment system could potentially be dangerous ... how is that different than having a custom deck put in?

C'mon, man, you don't have to play dumb. The deck isn't integrated with the cruise control, it just taps power. Our old cars are Rube Goldberg devices, but easy for anybody to fix. The Tesla is a black box, not even worth owning the damn thing, better to lease them or use them like bikes, where you just drop it off. For entertainment use your iPhone. No doubt it will connect to the speakers in the car. The idea of a "deck" is kinda silly now, like using the vice grips to work the power windows

Re:If i was an insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

There are many systems in Tesla vehicles. I think this rooting revolves around the "media center' (with network connectivity) part of the systems and I think the other components are more secure. You can reboot this device while driving and it has no negative impact other than losing access to the big screen and having your music cut off.

Doesn't sound super dangerous to me.

Re: If i was an insurance

[gnasher719]

The previous guy talked about even software changes to the entertainment system could potentially be dangerous ... how is that different than having a custom deck put in?

It's software. Software has bugs. Changes to the entertainment system shouldn't cause problems elsewhere, but how sure are you that they don't? And the problem with insurance is not that they may not pay out if the software caused a crash, they may declare your insurance void if they find out the software is modified. Of course they will only do that after an expensive accident, and return say $2,000 insurance payments instead of paying out say $20,000 for damages.

Re:If i was an insurance

[140Mandak262Jamuna]

Media center is probably a sand boxed virtual machine. It has access to the on screen UI.

This is how privilege escalation starts. Combine this with an exploit to break out of the sandbox, voila! you pwn the whole car.

Re:If i was an insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

Those profiles are modified as well. Acceleration changed to be more responsive at the risk of engine damage. Automated braking and cruise control distances reduced. Lane assist modified to be tighter and avoid bouncing or looser to avoid the pull on the wheel.

If programming for these in vehicle computers was easier there would be full on 'autopilot' replacements available and not just tweaking parameters of existing systems.

Re:If i was an insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

You would discover that because auto insurance is required to be owned, that you would be required to sell it or not sell auto insurance to anybody.

Re: If i was an insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

Whoosh

Re: If i was an insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

You don't actually have to carry insurance, you can get an indemnity bond instead. But most people can't afford to plunk down $30k (or more depending on State) to get one.

Re:If i was an insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

fuck off you god damn Musk cock sucking fan boy

Re:If i was an insurance

[kurkosdr]

And they are doing so illegally (by nulifying their inspection/smog check certificate but still driving their vehicle on public roads), much like the people who install large exhausts with no catalytic converter in their vehicles. So, yes it can be done, but you will probably be breaking some regulations doing so. This is a question open-source and free software advocates have to answer: In tightly regulated computers, like a car computer, should the 4 freedoms the FSF touts still apply?

Re:If i was an insurance

[kurkosdr]

Changing the injection profile of an ICE car nullifies the smog-check certificate and may make the car emit more pollution that it's government-approved specifications. Also, the ECU of a modern car controls the ABS and the airbags.

Re:If i was an insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

Wrong. Despite what luddites think, "computers" aren't "magical". You can build your own car from scratch and insure it. You can replace any component in a mass-produced car - including motors, engines or brake systems. They insures hot-rods - a somewhat higher premium thats all. Rooting may void some warranty, but not the insurance.

Re: If i was an insurance

[AmiMoJo]

Usually anything that a) increases risk or b) increases value/repair cost. So pretty much any change from factory, including things like adding a protecting coating or wrap.

Re:If i was an insurance

[drinkypoo]

Yet you can do complete overhauls of mechanical cars legally.
Personal responsibility is what is missing here. If you don't have the skill to do it. Don't

The problem is that this software will be available to Joe Schmoe, who can just plug it in without understanding the repercussions. You can't completely overhaul a mechanical car without at least a little knowledge.

Re:If i was an insurance

[Cmdln Daco]

Ooogy-boogy! It's software! It's magic! Mere mortals should not be allowed to meddle with it!

Re:If i was an insurance

[Cmdln Daco]

Tesla cars are Powerful. A non-Elon should never be afforded that kind of power!

Re:If i was an insurance

[andydread]

People have been modifying cars since the dawn of the car. Rooting is just another form of mod. It's actually common to just replace the stock computer and use one of the many after-market computers that allows you to be root out of the box rather than simply modifying the limited factory one. Nothing to see here.

Re: If i was an insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

The OEM system in my car connects to the can bus. Playing around with those wires and interrupt the communication between the safety systems and the engine management. It will stop the stability control system from functioning.
It's not even that modern, it's 15 years old now.

Re:If i was an insurance

[Cito]

I actually went to pay my car insurance today at state farm. I asked about modifying vehicles and they have no rules against modifying. Also my state doesn't do emission inspection. State farm even insures golf carts here cause many many people in my town put blinkers and brake lights on a golf cart and use for for in town travel.

Re:If i was an insurance

[Aighearach]

Nope, never been asked that.

I have my car way over-insured too. Even full coverage with everything, they don't ask me that question.

As long as I start from a car in their database, I can modify it as much as I like and they don't care. If it was a pure custom car, then it would be more complicated.

I don't doubt that they asked you that, but I've never been asked that, so how "standard" is it?

Re:If i was an insurance

[grep -v '.*' *]

If you don't have the skill to do it. Don't

Be at ease, citizen -- Dunning-Kruger Man is here you rescue you from your folly!

Re:If i was an insurance

[jonesy16]

No, but you can pay someone else to do it for you, not much different.

Re:If i was an insurance

[jonesy16]

There is a level of debatable difference between previous iterations of car modding (more power, better/worse handling, appearance, sound) and modifying software that has the ability to fully drive a car. Sure, adding a supercharger and 200 HP to a car could make it more dangerous in the hands of an average driver, or potentially push the physics of the car to the point where it's no longer 100% safe on the road, but that's still in a different realm than messing with the brain of a car that you didn't design, that perhaps isn't even fully understood by the hackers, and could, in theory, drive the car by itself in any way that it wants.

The key difference here is the previous modding still left the driver in control, this modding could (maybe not in its current iteration but future iterations) put the control in something else's hands.

Re:If i was an insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

...

The problem is that this software will be available to Joe Schmoe, who can just plug it in without understanding the repercussions. You can't completely overhaul a mechanical car without at least a little knowledge.

There have been enough Joe Schmoes who have done EXACTLY THAT for me to have been worried for some decades now.

Re:If i was an insurance

[sjames]

You don't have to present any sort of certificate of mastery to the guy at the parts counter.

Re:If i was an insurance

[sjames]

Any teen is free to DIY their brakes. It's even fairly common because guess who is more likely to have some free time than they are to have enough money to pay a mechanic?

Re:If i was an insurance

[dgatwood]

Nope. They are two entirely separate computers. The MCU (Media Control Unit) is a physical computer that controls the main screen. I think it also controls the small dashboard screen, but I'm not 100% certain. In MCU1 cars, they are based on NVIDIA Tegra. In MCU2 cars, they're Intel-based.

The autopilot computer is an entirely separate piece of hardware. In AP1 systems (all MCU1), the AP computer was built by MobileEye. In AP2 setups hardware (all MCU1), they are based on NVIDIA Tegra. In AP2.5 cars (MCU1 or MCU2), they are still based on NVIDIA Tegra, but with more GPUs. In AP HW3 (MCU2 or retrofitted with MCU1), the AP computer will contain custom Tesla tensor processing hardware; the SoC is unknown, as far as I'm aware.

They do share a network, though, so ostensibly you could compromise the AP hardware from the MCU, though why anybody in his/her right mind would want to mess with the self-driving hardware (beyond, perhaps, to tap/record the camera feeds, which you might be able to pull from the MCU anyway) is beyond me.

Re: If i was an insurance

[sjames]

And so, your honor, we're absolutely certain the brake failure was caused by the pine tree air freshener hanging on the rear view mirror.

Re:If i was an insurance

[drinkypoo]

You don't have to present any sort of certificate of mastery to the guy at the parts counter.

No, but you generally have to know something to actually make substantial mechanical changes. Most people who are capable of making the vehicle make substantially more power, for example, are also capable of understanding the value of increasing braking force. People who just buy a tune off the internet get into trouble all the time.

Re:If i was an insurance

[chuckugly]

Sure, because as we know no one has ever in the history of automobiles modified or in any way hot rodded a car before this.

Re:If i was an insurance

[sjames]

Where I grew up, seeing a Mustang or Nova with steam pouring out of it was a common sight. The owners either forgot or never knew that if you increase engine output, you need more cooling. They tended to have stock brakes.

Re:If i was an insurance

[drinkypoo]

Those vehicles (in the Nova era) had inadequate brakes from the factory :)

Re:If i was an insurance

[chuckugly]

Malarkey

Re: If i was an insurance

[chuckugly]

The deck isn't integrated with the cruise control, it just taps power.

Welcome to the 21st century, where the 'deck' generally taps into the vehicle CAN bus for things like integration with the wheel controls.

Re:If i was an insurance

[phayes]

Not all ICE cars driven today have a smog-check certificate or ECU's that control ABS or airbags. However, all Tesla's have computers that go much further, controlling the steering, acceleration and _all_ braking, not just ABS & airbags. I'll agree with you that mucking around the computers of ICE cars with computer controlled security features can be a bad idea but with the computers being the heart of Teslas critical driving functions, people doing so approach Darwin Award levels of poor judgement because they can undermine so many of them.

Re:If i was an insurance

[phayes]

Teens with Teslas are already pretty uncommon.

Teens with Teslas and sufficient knowledge to start mucking around with the car's internal systems without the Tesla shutting down due to unsigned & unrecognized code or know how to get around these checks are going to be exceptionally rare. Not all teens are Bunny Huang (who isn't a teenager anymore either).

Re:If i was an insurance

[rtb61]

You kind of miss the point. Yes, you can screw with your car mechanically or it's programming but if it causes the car to crash, you will lose your insurance coverage, be sued by your victims and of course if the change was proven reckless, be charged with reckless operation of a vehicle and the penalties on top like manslaughter should you kill someone.

Do not hack you cars software, you make yourself fully legally liable for all consequences and in the event of an incident, you will have to prove your innocence, prove you changes did not cause the crash.

Re:If i was an insurance

[sjames]

So imagine how much less adequate they were after the engine got a power boost!

Re:If i was an insurance

[sjames]

Meaning anyone who manages to successfully hack their Tesla will be well more qualified than we require to be permitted to work on a safety critical automotive system. My point exactly.

Re: If i was an insurance

[loufoque]

Are you implying a random mechanic who dropped out of high school is a smarter and more balanced person that a software professional with an engineering degree?

Re:If i was an insurance

[bankman]

Most people who are capable of making the vehicle make substantially more power, for example, are also capable of understanding the value of increasing braking force.

You mean like chip tuning?

Re: If i was an insurance

[Anonymous Coward]

Plus the cost of a brake pad replacement at the local repair shop is ridiculously expensive.

Re:If i was an insurance

[strikethree]

Changing the injection profile of a ICE car has a very circumcised impact and does not have the same security risks as mucking around the same computers that control the steering acceleration and braking on a Tesla.

No. This is EXACTLY the same thing in all/most modern cars.

You would think that the various electronic subsystems would be segregated, but no. That is not natural to how people think. Even modern airplanes don't have true separation between the entertainment systems and the bus that routes the signals to various elements that control the plane in the air.

So yeah, if you modified the injection profile on my car, built all the way back in 2004, you also have the ability to crash any safety features present in the vehicle. I don't have lane assist, but modifying injectors would exist in the same "place" as the code for lane assist. Or, to put it more technically, since this is Slashdot, the same RAM chips that hold the injector data also hold the data that lane assist needs to operate.

Would it be safe to assume that you would think it would be smart to limit modifications to any car newer than about 2004? Think about it. ;)

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[Anonymous Coward]

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"now launched at FOSDEM"

[Anonymous Coward]

Nice that the Slashdot Editors take such pride in their work.

Not well thought out.

[Gravis Zero]

I'm not saying it's a bad idea but do you really want to be messing with your car using JavaScript, Unix shell and PHP? I know you're thinking, "but those are the most reliable languages!" and I'm going to have to disagree because that title clearly belongs to Adobe Flash and Microsoft ActiveX. ;)

Re:Not well thought out.

[Anonymous Coward]

If the car software is a hodgepodge of perl scripts and crappy arduino-like spaghetti code like Tesla, why not?

Re:Not well thought out.

[Aighearach]

Arduino is:

1) A brand of carrier board for AVR microcontrollers
and
2) A programming GUI that comes with a C library that makes it easier for newbs to write C for microcontrollers.

There is nothing there that would make any connection with spaghetti code.

You're just smooshing two pejoratives you don't understand together, and tossing them at somebody. For shame.

Now THIS is where the DoJ should be

[Anonymous Coward]

Pursue this hacker-crim to the ends of the earth, all four corners if need be. Up with this Musk can not put.

Cool stuff

[Anonymous Coward]

The slashdot of today makes me sad. Root your car? That's cool as hell!

Re:Cool stuff

[phayes]

You know whats even cooler? Licking your fingers & sticking them in an electrical socket. You should do that right away! Better yet, throw yourself off a multi-story building face first! Nobody cares if it's dangerous, it's cool so you gotta do it...

Re:Cool stuff

[Anonymous Coward]

You know whats even cooler? Licking your fingers & sticking them in an electrical socket.

What does a basement smell like with someone inside who's never left it in 45 years?

Re:Cool stuff

[Anonymous Coward]

So you can answer "how does your ass taste" now, since you have obviously been licking your fingers and sticking them in there instead. Sometimes repeatedly.

Re: Cool stuff

[Anonymous Coward]

Next time we have a "sending humans to mars" discussion I will be sure to use this basement dwellers logical fallacy.

Re:Cool stuff

[Aighearach]

Just shout that question up the stairs and find out, jeeze.

Your subconscious wrote...

[Gravis Zero]

Actually, ActionScript is the language, not "Flash" and it was originally made by-

Thanks, asshole. It's just a joke. Not everyone knows the technical details about every language.

Flash Player and ActiveX are really just platforms. Flash Player executes bytecode using a JIT compiler while ActiveX executes native-

THANKS, ASSHOLE. IT'S JUST A JOKE. NOT EVERYONE KNOWS THE TECHNICAL DETAILS ABOUT EVERY LANGUAGE.

I know you were thinking it... we were all thinking it. ;)

Re:Your subconscious wrote...

[Gravis Zero]

I think it's hilarious that the mods went crazy on this. I guess they didn't read the post subject... or anything else. ;)

Re:Your subconscious wrote...

[Aighearach]

It was probably just stupid and anti-intellectual, and this is a site for nerds.

Threat to Homeland Security

[Anonymous Coward]

The guy in that video sounds like one of Putin's h@X0Rs and he's meddling with American cars. We need to keep the fatherland, motherland and homeland safe and secure from foreign people like him. What if the al-Qaeda sleeper cells hack my Tesla and use it to melt more skyscrapers? Real TV news says jet fuel makes steel-framed skyscrapers fall straight down so it could happen! Yikes! ae911truth dot org

Re:Threat to Homeland Security

[Aighearach]

Hey Ivan, Americans don't have a "fatherland."

Countries that use that metaphor are usually countries we're about to have to go to war with.

Will it Pass DMV Inspection?

[schwit1]

I suspect vehicle manufacturers will soon lobby state DMVs to fail the inspection of any vehicles that is running has non-manufacturer approved software.

It's for the safety of the children.

Re:Will it Pass DMV Inspection?

[Anonymous Coward]

What inspection? Most states don’t have vehicle inspections.

Re:Will it Pass DMV Inspection?

[Cito]

I live in Georgia, we've never had emission inspections lol

That's West coast Cali bullshit

Re:Will it Pass DMV Inspection?

[MessageDrivenBean]

How to tell?

Re:Will it Pass DMV Inspection?

[Anonymous Coward]

I live in Georgia, we've never had emission inspections lol

That's West coast Cali bullshit

But only someone from Georgia would think an electric car would have emission inspections.

Legal in Canada

[davecb]

See Ghaffari v. Co-operators General Insurance Co., 1996 CanLII 8031 (ON SC), http://canlii.ca/t/1vtth, as retrieved on 2019-02-09

Health/Life Safety

[codesmith.ca]

Hacking anything that falls under health/life safety is really not a good idea.

Imagine how much faster I could get things done if I hacked the light curtain on the guillotine paper cutter at work!

Yeah, lets not go there.

Re:Health/Life Safety

[Anonymous Coward]

What a bunch of nonsense. If the brakes of my motorcycle fail II will die. If the clutch misbehaves drastically I will die. If the chain breaks, fails, too loose, I will die. Etc. According to you I should not touch or improve anything just because OEM is prefect. So rather than replace the shitty OEM R/R that did severe damage to the battery with a proper non penny pinching one, I should go and get someone to put back the OEM one because of danger of fire hazard, explosions, and what not?

Nonsense.

Filthy statists.

[Anonymous Coward]

I read this thread and omg... do you guys even car? One can change any mechanical or software component on current vehicles. And that's not even the half of it; the ones screeching the loudest about this probably wear their brake pads to a nub and refuse to fix anything until it becomes catastrophic. Guess what, their insurance isn't dropping them, they don't get tickets, they keep driving. Then they argue with the mechanic on why things need to be replaced so they don't actually kill them cuz they're getting "ripped off".

But now software controls? OMG! Rooting should be illegal, what if people do this or do that? I'm completely ignorant as to how vehicles work but I'm about to dictate to you what you can and can't do with your property. Am I reading this right? Slashdotters going statist about software modifications to HW you own? Did I stumble into a PTA meeting of moms demand conformity? Tesla requires your location data for the "chillun".

These aren't even mods to the drive train and all the scared ignorance comes out. Its really underscoring where all the other intrusive regulation in my life comes from. Slashdotters, its not a good look for you.

Re: Filthy statists.

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah I am thinking this wave of ACs are just paid Tesla shills. No one who claims to support open software and freedom can be that dense.

Re:Filthy statists.

[Aighearach]

I tell my mechanic I want to replace stuff, and he says, "Why don't we just test it first?" Come on man, I feel better when I have some new parts.

In any case, there is no conflict in these people's opinions; they're mostly Republican neckbeards. As is well documented, most of the people who support deregulation have a false belief about what the current rules are. When I talk to people who want to deregulate about what sort of safety rules they would support, they always describe safety rules that are broader and move invasive than the rules we already have. They simply consume media that concludes there is "too much," and they decide they believe it without learning the details.

So there is no surprise at all that these "information wants to be free like Freedom Fries and Uber" crowd gets scared by this; they think that there are already lots of rules preventing people from modifying their drive trains, they have no clue at all about what is already on the road with them. They perceive this as a new threat.

But you won't notice, you're also grousing about "intrusive regulation" so you're probably also just as ignorant about what is actually regulated.

Inspections (Re: Filthy statists.

[Anonymous Coward]

In most states, there are inspections to varying degrees by competent, licensed , trained mechanics. The state legislature figured that uninspected vehicles cause societal harm.

So inspections for tires, brakes, emissions were codified and rolled out. This includes inspections of mods, like lights.

So now imaging that a tesla has been rooted. And someone messes with the braking algorithms to optimize charging over stopping distance, and they messed those up. The issue isn't, like others have said here, will it be insured. The issue is, can a reasonable inspector determine if the mods met the inspection requirements?

And the answer is:
- can legislation be written well enough, and
- can it be reasonably inspected?

Obviously, the answer right now is no and no.

I would expect legislation to be started in lean forward states to require inspectors to check for hashes of software of control systems that are certified by the manufacturer. Just like how they do emissions inspections today (and yes, VW cheated): inspectors pass risk through to the manufacturer.

For me, theres a societal good for right to repair of your John deere and laptop, which makes sense. And then there's a right to repair for a vehicle that can kill me & mine. That means "expect legislation re inspections in a decade or so, rolling out first in the socialist state of Cali." But a bunch of upper middle class or rich folks are gonna be killed first (all regulations are written in the blood of the victims).

Re:Inspections (Re: Filthy statists.

[Anonymous Coward]

Most states have emissions testing. Relatively few have safety inspections and they're often done by private mechanics. Braking algorithms? For the autopilot maybe, that's a simple design that has to be bulletproof. A majority of the issues you are thinking up still stem from a poor understanding of vehicle systems. These things have been taken care of at a manufacturer level due to previous safety standards, even for drive by wire acceleration and braking. Or do you think a tesla can't stop if the power cuts out.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vehicle_inspection_in_the_United_States

This could make Tesla a valid option...

[Anonymous Coward]

The combination of an open cellular network connection, unaccessable proprietary software w/ drm like controls, unavoidable surveillance, and autodrive tech....

I could afford one... But Tesla- to me- is a non-starter due to all this- an machine built for dystopia and fascism- for neoslavery. Frankly, I don't even like having to share the road with them.

Let me shut off that internet, not be spied on- and make it so I am in firm control of the updates/changes made over time. That starts to look like something worth looking into at least.

As is= Tesla's are like Cell phones- and I'm extraordinarily disappointed/disturbed by how many people are ok with that, or just not paying attention.

Re:This could make Tesla a valid option...

[Anonymous Coward]

...and then I watch the video and realize it's not feasible. This doesn't actually solve any trust issues- and frankly, given all the shill-ish comments here- I think maybe it's a poison well, something designed to harm the very idea it presents.

Tesla design is too defective to fix via software. They've not properly segregated the systems. Same problem as cellphones have.

Systems that control safety critical function- should not be mixed with 'infotainment'- and sure as HELL shouldn't be connected to the internet.

One should ask- what's the difference between a tesla and a billionaire's/governments/hackers private fleet of assassination drones?
A Software update- aka- NOTHING- there's not one god damn thing that objectively separates those two things, so long as there is an open internet connection and automatic over the air updates. And THAT is the problem. It's not about how likely it is that they could be used this way- it's that they COULD be. That is NOT OK. It NEVER will be.

It is about friggin time !

[Anonymous Coward]

It is about friggin time that consumers got to control the software their cars are running.

I own a 2008 Ford Superduty that has a basically non function nav system because the optical disk is so out of date and buggy that the maps are unusable. And the optical drive stopped working. Ford wants $300 for a new disk and $1000 for a new center unit.

It is just stupid how fast the center console electronics gets outdated these days. And you can't add apps. Why doesn't the center console run Android and let users add apps and connect devices via USB, Bluetooth ? Android Auto is a joke compared to running native Android. Ford Sync is terrible. Every manufacturer just has to have their own proprietary system. It is stupid. Planned obsolescence at it's best.

The best infotainment system you can buy is your phone. Why can't manufacturers leverage that in their vehicles instead of trying to reinvent the wheel with their own crap. I love how GM et al is advertising their cars as beeing hot spots. Really, my phone did that 4 years ago and I don't need another sim card or proprietary data plan to do it. Are consumers stupid ?

This has been a pet peeve of mine for a long, long time.

wow. Some of the comments here

[WindBourne]

Seriously, I am amazed at some of the comments here.
Look, I buy a thing. It is mine. We own a Tesla. It is ours. We extended our warranty and even when it expires, we will continue with Tesla service. Why? Because they are excellent.
Obviously, if you root your car, then Tesla no longer has any responsibility to your. At that point, Tesla can, and should, shut down all communications to the car. That means that the telephony connection should be stopped. No more tracking. But, also no more internet/ip radio. Unless of course, they buy that from elsewhere. All in all, it should be our choice to decide whether to root, and by the same token, it is then Tesla's freedom of choice as well, as to whether to support the vehicle or not.

Simple as that.

BTW, for those of you speaking of the dangers, I have seen more issues from mechanics than I have from Computer issues. I lost an entire wheel at the axle because the Honda mechanic did not put back the shear pin. In fact, it was because of that, that we ended up with a Tesla.

Re:wow. Some of the comments here

[110010001000]

Not really. Tesla is a "tech" company. Tech companies have been moving away from the "you own it" model of business to the "you rent it". I would expect Tesla to oppose this.

Re:wow. Some of the comments here

[Anonymous Coward]

We own a Tesla.

Nice WindBourne.
Is that why you have a grand total of THREE posts over at teslamotorsclub.com since you registered over there one year ago?

I lost an entire wheel at the axle because the Honda mechanic did not put back the shear pin.

What "shear pin" is that?
Wheels are not retained using a "shear pin".

Dangerous as hell!

[Rick Schumann]

Consider this: if you use this 'aftermarket' software to run your vehicle and you get in an accident as a result? It's all on you.
No one should use this for any reason.

Re:Dangerous as hell!

[pauljlucas]

How is this different from using 3rd-party parts? Or must I buy only parts from Tesla for a Tesla? Or Only parts from Ford for a Ford? If anything, I think it is more on the software author, not the end-user.

Freud Was Here

[Anonymous Coward]

the injection profile of a ICE car has a very circumcised impact

My car prefers a circumcised injector.

tesla hire this guy

[sad_]

tesla should hire this guy, let him do his thing, make sure that his works gets officially released to your vehicles.
people who don't care about it, wont mind and those that do, will be thrilled and happy to promote your vehicles to others.