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A Psion Palmtop Successor Has Arrived and It Runs Android and Linux (pocket-lint.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the best-of-both-worlds dept.

dryriver writes: A lot of people probably remember the 1990s palmtop computers made by Psion fondly. The clamshell-design palmtops were pocketable, black and white, but had a working stylus and a fantastic tactile foldout QWERTY keyboard that you could type pretty substantial documents on or even write code with. A different company -- Planet Computers -- has now produced a spiritual successor to the old Psion palmtops called the Gemini PDA that is much like an old Psion but with the latest Android smartphone hardware in it and a virtually identical tactile keyboard. It can also dual boot to Linux (Debian, Ubuntu, Sailfish) alongside Android. The technical specs are a MediaTek deca-core processor, 4GB RAM, 64GB storage (plus microSD slot), 4G, 802.11c Wi-Fi, GPS, Bluetooth, eSIM support, and 4,220mAh battery. The screen measures in at 5.99-inches with a 2,160 x 1,080 (403ppi) resolution. The only thing missing seems to be the stylus -- but perhaps that would have complicated manufacturing of this niche-device in its first production run.

45 of 82 comments (clear)

  1. What's missing is RAM by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

    4GB is plenty for Android, but for Linux? Nope. I realize I'm at risk of becoming "that guy" who is always whining about RAM, but it really is a sticking point for getting things done.

    --
    "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
    1. Re: What's missing is RAM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      I have one and they keyboard and screen are so small that you aren't going to do too many things are once to need more RAM.

      I run gcc and vim on mine. I posted a few of my SDL projects to it without much problem. (I didn't port my old OpenGL code to GLES2 because that was more work than I was willing to do)

    2. Re:What's missing is RAM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You mean it's not enough for the *browsers* running on Linux? Other software is pretty comfortable with that amount...

    3. Re: What's missing is RAM by reanjr · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Here I am with several terminal windows, an IDE, half a dozen web pages, and a file manager open only using 1.7 GiB of RAM wondering what you're smoking...

    4. Re:What's missing is RAM by OneOfMany07 · · Score: 3, Interesting

      Many (all?) browsers aren't optimized for RAM usage. They'll eat as much as you make available. And aren't great about cutting things back if you like to have tons of tabs open. Think I heard Firefox was even shifting to the one process for each tab like Chrome has been doing (pretty sure that'll eat more RAM up than a pair of rendering processes for whatever you're looking at currently like it used to do).

      But in general I agree...4GB isn't tons for a power-user oriented device (who I'd picture this being marketed to). Could be much worse too...

    5. Re: What's missing is RAM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Informative

      He's right you know. I'm running Fedora 29 x86_64, Cinnamon Spin. Browser open with 7 tabs (4 slashdot, 3 youtube - one playing a 1080p video), music player running, VLC playing a 1080p h264 video, LibreOffice Writer is open.

      Mem: 16035 (Total) 2353 (Used) 10777 (Free) 157 (Shared) 2904 (Cache) 13239 (Available)

      I mean, I don't imagine running all this on this PDA at once. And I sure as hell won't be running virtual machines or compiling.

      At which point is a laptop the more appropriate choice?

    6. Re:What's missing is RAM by fbobraga · · Score: 1

      4GB is plenty RAM for Linux, today: it's only a small amount of RAM for gaming...

    7. Re:What's missing is RAM by pnutjam · · Score: 1

      It's a portable device, you should be doing your heavy lifting elsewhere via ssh or NX.

      I have an hp stream 11" with 1GB of Ram that works great as a portable device running OpenSuSE, KDE Plasma even.

      Too bad it comes with Win10, which it can't even update on the 32GB internal drive.

      --
      Cheap storage VM.
    8. Re:What's missing is RAM by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Many (all?) browsers aren't optimized for RAM usage. They'll eat as much as you make available. And aren't great about cutting things back if you like to have tons of tabs open. Think I heard Firefox was even shifting to the one process for each tab like Chrome has been doing (pretty sure that'll eat more RAM up than a pair of rendering processes for whatever you're looking at currently like it used to do).

      While all of this is true, the original complaint was that while 4Gb might be enough for Windows, it isn't for GNU/Linux. I see nothing different about the way Firefox (or Chrome) handles memory in GNU/Linux vs Windows. So if someone's comfortable in 4Gb under Windows, in theory they should have no problem with any mainstream GNU/Linux distribution such as Ubuntu.

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    9. Re: What's missing is RAM by reanjr · · Score: 1

      Your budget-ass phone is running horribly inefficient "apps" built largely by amateurs on several additional layers of abstraction over the Linux core. Linux and its apps are largely efficient C code or highly engineered JavaScript web apps written by relatively more competent devs.

  2. That's old model by thechanklybore · · Score: 5, Informative

    The Gemini PDA has been around for about a year - I was one of the backers. The more interesting one is this:

    https://www.indiegogo.com/proj...

    This will actually fully replace your phone with a Palm-style computer, unlike the Gemini, which I've since sold.

    1. Re:That's old model by sacrilicious · · Score: 1

      The page you linked to (thank you for that, btw) has me confused: are they actually selling units now, i.e. that they will ship within days to you if you order... and if so, how is one supposed to be able to tell? (And if not, why does it seem to suggest that they began production a year ago...)

      --
      - First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
    2. Re: That's old model by thechanklybore · · Score: 2

      It's supposed to ship in June this year, but the Gemini was quite late so who knows.

      Indiegogo has terrible page design which makes this stuff quite unclear!

    3. Re: That's old model by sacrilicious · · Score: 1

      Thank you

      --
      - First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
    4. Re:That's old model by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      Looks like a scam... I hope not for your sake, but the lack of any images of an actual working prototype and the fact that what they do show is a mixture of space models and renders is not a good sign.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    5. Re:That's old model by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      Thanks for the link. Any info on how easy this is to root?

    6. Re: That's old model by thechanklybore · · Score: 1

      It's already been presented at CES, and is made by the same team as Gemini who certainly produced the goods, if not a little later than expected.

      I haven't actually funded the Cosmo, but I wouldn't be worried if I had.

    7. Re:That's old model by thechanklybore · · Score: 1

      Obviously running Linux it's already fully unlocked for root. Android-wise, there's already a TWRP & LineageOS build if you want to it that way.

    8. Re:That's old model by Obfuscant · · Score: 1

      The reason I desire a rooted device is to get access to the content I have purchased, is DRM free from the publisher, but is squirreled away in the /data/data directory by the app that handles it. Linux is irrelevant.

  3. But Why? by rv6502 · · Score: 1

    The GPD Pocket is cheaper, double the memory, double the storage, x86-64 CPU...

    GPD Pocket: $509.00 USD, Win10 or Linux, Intel x7-Z8750, 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD, 7" 1920x1200
    GPD Win2: $699.16 USD, Win10 or Linux, Intel Core m3-7Y30, 8GB RAM, 128GB SSD, 1280×720

    I have a GPD Win 1st version dual-booting Linux & Win10. I actually dev using it on the train/ferry/plane: Kdevelop, Gimp, Modo. I play some Steam games too on the Win10 partition. I've been considering upgrading to the Win2, not Pocket because I dev games so the built-in controller is great OTG and doubles as a half-decent mouse. But if it wasn't for my need for a built-in gamepad I'd go with the GPD Pocket.

    This Gemini PDA seems like a downgrade. For 4G connectivity, I have a cell phone I can tether to and there's WiFi almost everywhere otherwise.

    1. Re:But Why? by rv6502 · · Score: 1

      Correction: The without-4G Gemini is $10 cheaper than the GPD Pocket (I only noticed the +4G model price.) ... for half the RAM and half the storage of the GPD Pocket & no x86 Windows 10 compatibility...
      yeah... still a pass for me.

    2. Re:But Why? by sacrilicious · · Score: 1

      I have a GPD Win 1st version dual-booting Linux & Win10.

      I have looked and have not found online documentation of any procedure for successfully installing linux on the GPD, other than people saying they did it but there are all kinds of driver quirks remaining to conquer. Can you point me documentation of someone doing it and concluding with the vibe that it's solid and ready to go?

      --
      - First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
    3. Re:But Why? by rv6502 · · Score: 2

      GPD Win2: https://www.youtube.com/watch?...

      The GPD Win1 was definitely quirky to get working. The GPD Win2 I've only heard "it just works".

      I've had mine (1st gen) working for a while, I haven't tried reinstalling since (if it ain't broken...) so I can't tell if newer xubuntu just works out of the box or still requires a lot of tweaking. But I got the GPU 3D acceleration and can use all 4 cores (turbo boost disabled), sound card, mini HDMI port, touch screen, USB-A port USB3, gamepad works.

      USB-C works as a USB2 port & charger, I haven't tested hdmi out functionality of that port in Linux
      uSD card slot doesn't work for me, I use a USB adapter if I need to read an SD card.
      And when Linux boots I have to close the lid and reopen once for the LCD to turn on after the latest kernel update (didn't use to do that, but it's a small work around)

    4. Re:But Why? by Shikaku · · Score: 1

      https://wiki.archlinux.org/ind...

      Depends on the device. I have the GPD_Win first generation, Arch linux ran fine except for having to change a bios setting and putting a couple of files in the firmware folder for Wifi. YMMV however, no idea about any of the other GPD line.

    5. Re:But Why? by rv6502 · · Score: 1

      Haha! I'm actually (badly) quoted on that page! "Fixing occasional crash when using all cores" section links to my reddit post 2 years ago.

      The wiki asserts that it's software-controlled when I wrote "It seems it's software controlled" because I'm only guessing. It could also be because Windows might adjust the PSU, allowing the CPU to run at full speed. Maybe both, maybe something else entirely like a missing microcode update or whatever. All I know is the crashes went away.

      If anyone reading this has an editor access to the ArchWiki and would kindly fix the assertion to a hypothesis it would be much appreciated.

    6. Re:But Why? by sacrilicious · · Score: 1

      Have you gotten sleep to work reliably?

      --
      - First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
    7. Re:But Why? by Compuser · · Score: 2

      I own GPD pocket 2 and run ubuntu on it. No issues. I used the mate version pre-made for GPD. Very fast, runs scientific simulations OK (not a beowolf cluster but OK :), runs visual stuff lie simple povray scenes well. No delays on office work or browsing. Best of all, usb-c is thunderbolt so I change and do all data shuffling including sound via one port. Bluetooth works but is a bit quirky.

    8. Re:But Why? by Compuser · · Score: 1

      https://ubuntu-mate.org/gpd-po...

    9. Re:But Why? by rv6502 · · Score: 1

      I never had a single Linux machine sleep and wake properly. I don't think I even tried on the GPD Win 1
      I just shutdown and turn it back on if I don't need it for 5 mins.
      Sorry I cant be of more help

    10. Re:But Why? by sacrilicious · · Score: 1

      Thank you for the data point. I ran across this post that has a solution to at least one person's sleep issues (haven't tried it because I don't own a unit just yet): https://www.reddit.com/r/GPDPo...

      --
      - First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then ???, then profit.
  4. Re: 2 years ago? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2

    You must be new here.

  5. Big question how good is the software ? by Crashmarik · · Score: 3, Informative

    As it stands the specs are damn good, if it had a GPIO bus it would be absolutely perfect.

    But if you have ever played with these niche devices, it's all on how good the software is. I have a bunch of ARM devices with Linux and Android distributions that the dreaded "Not optimized for your device" or can't even install comes up on.

  6. Smartphone form factors by Dracos · · Score: 2

    Way back in the 90s when these kinds of PDAs were available, I debated getting a Psion, but ultimately got an HP 200LX because it ran DOS. Smartphones are the logical successor to PDAs, but until the hardware keyboard returns to phones, I'm not interested in having one: sacrificing screen real estate to emulate a primary input method isn't worth it.

  7. Palmtops are the forgotten form factor by xtal · · Score: 1

    I remember these fondly.. mostly from when I was a kid and broke.

    Atari Portfolio
    Psion
    HP100/200LX (still have a 200LX!)
    The Zeos Palm PC

    Great machines. Would love to see a modern take on them, maybe this is it?

    --
    ..don't panic
  8. Can it replace a phone? by Nocturrne · · Score: 1

    Can anyone that owns one of these tell us how well it works for phone calls?

    1. Re:Can it replace a phone? by damnbunni · · Score: 3, Interesting

      It's fine for calls. I open the screen, dial, then close the screen and hold it like a damn phone. Quality isn't great, but it's okay.

      I find that a smartwatch of some sort is really necessary to use it as a phone replacment. I have a Pebble Time, and that makes up for not having an easy screen for notifications.

      Don't bother with the optional exterior camera. Its godawful.

    2. Re:Can it replace a phone? by Nocturrne · · Score: 1

      I guess I'd still have to bring a phone with a good camera in any case. This might still be a good replacement for my aging Android tablet though. Thanks for the info.

  9. Oh mean I loved Psions by Lurks · · Score: 1

    There's something cool about a physical keyboard in a portable computer. I used a Psion to write a book during a train commute over a period of a year. So I feel nostalgic about this but...

    When I think about it. What is the reason we need a pocketable device with a full keyboard. It seems to me that a touch-screen keyboard is a perfectly adequate compromise for typing in a pocketable device, but if you're actually going to want to type a lot... you can't really go past a mini laptop like an XPS 13 or whatever.

    When you talk about running apps on something like this. It has a screen that is more mobile-like in size, but an input mechanism from desktop devices. Are you going to run a mobile browser, or a desktop browser? Probably mobile. Which means you're touching the screen, and then you realise that mobile web sites are usually configured for portrait vews...

    So, it's kind of cool, and I'm sure there's niche use cases and hell, it's not breaking the bank. I don't really see much of a use though. Well, actually, I quite like the idea of a linux device where you're interacting with the shell rather than a desktop... but really useful? Hmm.

  10. Foldable bluetooth keyboard similar and cheaper by Craggles · · Score: 2

    Wouldn't it be better to just get a foldable bluetooth keyboard for you phone for most people, the screen is the same size as most modern mobiles, and the keyboard would be bigger if foldable. Seems to me, this is pretty redundant now. https://www.pcworld.com/articl...

    1. Re:Foldable bluetooth keyboard similar and cheaper by Teun · · Score: 1

      It's the Linux mode + attached keyboard that make it nice.

      --
      "The likes of Facebook and WhatsApp are free to those whose privacy is of zero value."
  11. Re: 2 years ago? by jenningsthecat · · Score: 2

    You must be new here.

    You must be news here. Oh, wait...

    --
    'The Economy' is a giant Ponzi scheme whose most pitiable suckers are the youngest among us and the yet-unborn.
  12. Oo-la-la! by BrendaEM · · Score: 1

    Nice looking! It's like...a cellphone for people who have stuff to do.

    --
    https://www.youtube.com/c/BrendaEM
  13. Why would we want 10 cores? by OneOfMany07 · · Score: 1

    I can hardly use 4 cores fully on my desktop without specifically trying. And I assume that 10 cores of chip real estate could have gone to stuff like bigger caches that might actually make stuff feel faster on the one task I'm truly working on.

  14. Janko? by ledow · · Score: 1

    Is that the company owned by one of the guys (Janko Mrsic-Flogel) related to the Retro Computers Limited / ZX Vega thing on IndieGoGo that shipped about 100 crappy protoype units and then disappeared from existence?

    Certainly if he wasn't solely *responsible* for the Vega thing, he was one of the guy that caused the company to wind up (https://www.thegazette.co.uk/notice/3193686), owed money to the company directors and had to have a court order against him (https://www.theregister.co.uk/2019/01/23/retro_computers_ltd_directors_ordered_pay_3k_legal_costs/), and certainly played a part in knowing what state the device was actually in, but gushing about it all over the place to try to get people's money knowing it was a turkey.

    Whether or not the Gemini is any good (to be honest, I've seen better devices), I wouldn't do business with any of these people. And I wouldn't TOUCH IndieGoGo with a bargepole now as, despite explicit promises to try to reclaim their backer's money, they have done literally nothing and don't even answer queries now.

    Fortunately, I've never backed any of their projects - this guy or any of the other directors or IndieGoGo - because it's much more important to me for them to do business correctly. Same as the OpenPandora thing many years ago. Lots of people losing LOTS of money.

    It really comes to something when a Korean company that I'd never heard of until I picked up one of their devices (GamePark Holdings) does better business than people in my own country (the UK) making similar devices. All the UK-based "successors" to that device have been cons or ending in disaster.

  15. Old news by cosmo42 · · Score: 2

    Thanks for posting about Gemini, but this is really old news. It was shipped to first backers to year ago and I received mine something like 8 months ago.

    It's the best phone currently available for my use. Camera is terrible and there are some HW quality issues but nothing beats a proper keyboard. I've backed Cosmo Communicator which should fix the issues.

    I consider it more like successor for Nokia Communicators and N900 as it's a phone. All modern phones have PDA functionality.