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Britain and Germany Will Not Ban Huawei, Citing Lack of Spying Evidence (reuters.com)
An anonymous Slashdot reader writes from a report via Reuters: Despite persistent U.S. allegations of Chinese state spying, Britain said it is able to manage the security risks of using Huawei telecom equipments and has not seen any evidence of malicious activity by the company, a senior official said on Wednesday. Asked later whether Washington had presented Britain with any evidence to support its allegations, he told reporters: "I would be obliged to report if there was evidence of malevolence [...] by Huawei. And we're yet to have to do that. So I hope that covers it."
At the same time, German officials have told The Wall Street Journal that the country has made a "preliminary decision" to allow Huawei to bid on contracts for 5G networking. Catering to the surging populism, the U.S. has accused Huawei and other Chinese telecom equipments, along with European cars, as national security risks, even though the National Security Agency, American's cyber spying agency, was found to have wiretapped German Chancellor Angela Merkel, conducted economic espionage against France, and hacked into Chinese networks. Earlier this week, beleaguered Huawei founder Ren Zhengfei described the continued investigations by the U.S. into the Chinese firm -- including the arrest of his daughter and company CFO, Meng Wanzhou -- as politically motivated.
At the same time, German officials have told The Wall Street Journal that the country has made a "preliminary decision" to allow Huawei to bid on contracts for 5G networking. Catering to the surging populism, the U.S. has accused Huawei and other Chinese telecom equipments, along with European cars, as national security risks, even though the National Security Agency, American's cyber spying agency, was found to have wiretapped German Chancellor Angela Merkel, conducted economic espionage against France, and hacked into Chinese networks. Earlier this week, beleaguered Huawei founder Ren Zhengfei described the continued investigations by the U.S. into the Chinese firm -- including the arrest of his daughter and company CFO, Meng Wanzhou -- as politically motivated.
Whats the deal with all the racism on this site? Does BizX think that is cool or something?
The US has squandered its credibility. I can't say that Huawei inspires me with trust, but US accusations mean nothing.
Every sufficiently capable country should be mandating a complete set of source code minimally and ideally developing homegrown designs and manufacturing capability for security reasons. Relying on the US, China, and/or other countries is a really bad idea. Some countries have recognized the threat and responded accordingly. At least India, Russia, and Iran have some home-grown design, development, and manufacturing capabilities that they are working on. If only they were offering competing products on the world stage we'd probably all be better off. Unfortunately you may not need a high performing or cost efficient CPU at least of your own to realize the security and so we end up with a very small number of companies and countries capable of producing commercial offerings.
Or corrupt, no real third option here.
The real problem would be finding evidence that American companies can be trusted, eh?
From the purely economic perspective, China has the most to lose if they allow any private companies to get involved in spying. I'd go even farther and say that the Chinese leaders (including Xi) have redefined "communism" to mean "whatever makes money". That means it would now be an attack on "The Party" if Huawei did anything that threatened their corporate profits.
Having said that, I think the real threat to Huawei's profits is bad customer service. I've actually owned about 6 Huawei devices going back more than a decade. Technically they have all been on the scale from good to excellent, and the prices have put them on the scale from excellent value to superior, but the customer service has always been on the scale from none to miserable. I think if Huawei seriously wants to be an international player in broader areas of consumer electronics, they desperately need to rethink and redo their entire customer service operation. Nuking the support part of their website would be a good start. (Maybe it isn't so gawdawful in Chinese? I'm sure it can't be worse.)
Then again, there are some features to look for to determine if ANY maker's devices have been designed with espionage in mind. Level 0 would be things like unmentioned microphones, but the google just won that boobie prize. Level 1 would be reasonable features like EEPROM that has legitimate purposes but which could be used to install malware. After all, every device may need an upgrade at some point.
Level 2 would be clever design for fail safe concealment of the espionage-related capabilities. For example, a DRAM without power protection could be used for holding malware that would automatically disappear when the power is cut for any reason. Part of the POST could check for the network environment so as to detect if the device has been moved into a trap or DMZ (thus preventing re-installation of the spyware).
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
The allegations against Huawei are as credible as the Bloomberg Story on spy chips on SuperMicro boards and the reports on WMDs in Iraq.
Sure one has to assume back-doors exist in network equipment and handle the risks - but in Cisco hardware, such back-doors (as trivial as "default passwords") pop up like every other month, even before the NSA tampers with the devices during shipment.
You must be new here.
Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
Why is the USA letting the BND and GCHQ say no to US directions on Communist telecom equipment?
The NSA allowed the BND and GCHQ to grow. Their staff worked with the NSA/CIA for decades.
This is how the BND and GCHQ responds to the USA after decades of US support and sharing?
The USA asked Germany and the UK for one telco thing over the decades and the UK and Germany say no the USA?
All the training, equipment, crypto help, tracking of the IRA and the UK says no after decades of free US support?
All the help the USA tax payers gave West Germany with the Stasi and Soviet Union?
Time for the USA to get its Special Relationship going with Canada and New Zealand.
Give more supportive nations like New Zealand the full NSA upgrades and let Germany and the UK enjoy their Communist telecom equipment.
5 eye nations that like the USA, the NSA and its decades of support. Nations that appreciate US tax payers support.
The US supported the UK and West German, now Germany for decades.
Now Germany and the UK will trade that US support all in for one generation of Communist telecom equipment?
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
" I am sure Huawei spies. Most tech companies do. " - Ok... do most companies spy for China's Communist Party?...
No, most of them spy for the US's Republicrat party (which is in turn just a mouthpiece for the financial cartel).
When the British are willing to publicly turn their nose at their 'ally' in a big way like this, you know it is bad.
Personally, having used rooted Huawei phones, and having previously had them be one of the few phone companies to allow unlocking without having to phone in, I can say that Huawei phones are/were nicely engineered, had unique features compared to their competitors and were immensely reliable (I only stopped using mine after misplacing it for a few weeks, and having a replacement purchased for me.)
Having said that, the US and its corporations are more of an immediate threat to my security and freedom than the Chinese are. If they really want everyone backing their horse, they need us to not feel like we're just getting their brand instead of the Chinese one.
So, I took the time to actually read the article you linked to, including the statements by the NCSC and GCHQ that “serious problems with their security and engineering processes” are “not indicators of hostile activity by China”, and that they “would be obliged to report if there was evidence of malevolence” by Huawei, “and we have yet to have to do that.”
Huawei's problem is that they didn't figure out how to transfer $500,000,000 to Trump's family like ZTE did.
thanks for sharing this plot for sale in g14
Why does Huawei have to abide by sanctions that China isn't a party to? US law applies to the US, not the whole world. US spies all the time and treats its so-called allies with contempt. Remember the debacle over US tapping German chancellor's phone.
https://www.businessinsider.com/second-huawei-employee-arrested-in-poland-on-suspicion-of-china-spying-2019-1
https://www.hongkongfp.com/2018/12/12/three-hong-kong-passports-arrested-huawei-exec-meng-wanzhou-revealed-canadian-court/
https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/dec/07/meng-wanzhou-huawei-cfo-court-bail-fraud-sanctions-breach-canada
https://www.businessinsider.com/second-huawei-employee-arrested-in-poland-on-suspicion-of-china-spying-2019-1
https://www.scmp.com/business/companies/article/2177512/huawei-and-skycom-firm-accused-breaching-us-sanctions-shared-web
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-huawei-tech/huawei-units-to-be-arraigned-on-u-s-criminal-charges-on-feb-28-idUSKCN1PN2WP
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/third-canadian-detained-in-china-following-arrest-of-huawei-exec-2018-12-19
https://www.forbes.com/sites/arthurherman/2018/12/10/huaweis-and-chinas-dangerous-high-tech-game/
If you think US Industry and US Government are not connected when the corporations basically buy the elections for their favorit politicians than I have a bridge to sell you. US National Security is defined as whatever is good for US business. Huawei was alright till it was making copies of Western Tech. Now that they have actually overtaken and hold most of the 5G patents they are bad for US business and hence bad for US National Security.
Whether the companies are state owned or the state is company owned in neither China or the US system do you have independent govt and industry.
**Life is too short to be serious**
Why does Huawei have to abide by sanctions that China isn't a party to?
They (allegedly) resold American technology to Iran in violation of the licensing contract, and in violation of American law.
do most companies spy for China's Communist Party?
Why do you care? What is the CCP going to do to you?
You have far more to fear from your own government.
They also allegedly dragged tricked a bank with US operations (HSBC related) into violating the Iran embargo by financing the sales into Iran. Apparently that's classed as fraud.
"A number of financial institutions, including JP Morgan, Bank of America, Wells Fargo and international banks, were all judged guilty and paid enormous fines for violating sanctions in the last several years," Roach told CNBC's Eunice Yoon on Friday. "None of their executives, of course, went to jail — why is Huawei being singled out for the sanctions violations?"
Because it's only bad when other countries do it...
Of that magnitude? Apparently yes, as far as public statements seem to indicate at this point in time.
The problem the US have with Huawei is about more than whether they have been spying or not - it's about the fact that the US as a nation have lost control of the technology because the Chinese are the only credible firms producing 5G equipment. That means that they can control or break the standards in subtle ways, and then deliberately make it much harder or impossible for US (or other non-Chinese) firms to compete on a level playing field (by making only Chinese equipment truly cross-compatible). I don't know if this is actually happening but it is a legitimate concern - it's like the difference between Microsoft's OOXML vs ODF - the OOXML standard is technically open but it's close to impossible to truly implement something which is properly cross-compatible with MS Office.
A level playing field with open and transparent standards is something we should all be concerned to maintain because the next logical stage will be for the firms benefiting from the closed standard is to leverage that "lockin" to raise prices.
The US government and US businesses are separate entities, that is a very big difference. The companies spying don't have the resources of the state at their disposal or the inclination to sell what they find to the state (not that China has anything to steal) and tapping the phone of the German chancellor isn't exactly a shocker. Germany has had some fairly nasty Chancellor's in the past.
Because China isn't punishing but rather encouraging them due to the tight ties between the state and business in China.
Which would also be in violation of international law.
I don't know, devalue their currency to steal our jobs and manufacturing, use that advantage to steal our manufacturing technology, hack our infrastructure/businesses, international business, steal our ICBM technology, industrial and tech IP, and siphon our wealth. Of and hire a sockpuppet using the nick "ShanghaiBill"
It isn't like they do much. They make censored state versions of a few things and they adapt some software to run on their cheap knock off devices.
People often forget that most telecommunication companies used to be owned by their own government before 1990, and there are still many in Western Europe. Deutsche Telekom, present in the USA, has 38% state ownership. Do you care about German spies? Nope.
Convenient paranoia. Use interoperable global standard equipment and donâ(TM)t over rely on any suppliers. Huawei could be useful for promoting competition lower $ and by allowing minority equipment. Likewise China will feel compelled to reciprocate buying Nokia and Ericsson. Better than a trade war.
...now the UK just have to stop threatening to send their war ships into sensitive areas[1] and that'll help avoid pissing off the Chinese and perhaps help them post Brexit.
[1] If they really want to ensure freedom of navigation, why not send a dirt great oil tanker or something? TBH, I imagine there are very many British ships going through those seas every day. Is there any evidence of the Chinese trying to prevent *anyone* using those waters? ...anyone who isn't an obvious threat to them, that is.
Max.
It is when the AC trolling inbreds start coming out in force that /. needs to start thinking about banning a/c posts on a story-by-story basis. Any story which meets certain criteria *is* going to be inundated with this kind of trolling, something which is predictable.
Of course that just raises the bar a little.
Mielipiteet omiani - Opinions personal, facts suspect.
Britain is facing Brexit and a bunch of trade and economic issues. They'd rather stay in the good graces of the Chinese, the idea being they can replace stuff they would have bought from Europe with Chinese goods. And then there's the idea that if they don't get on board with 5G at a price point they can afford, their economic disadvantages will be worse yet.
The Germans probably figure they're just too smart to worry about hacked Chinese equipment, especially if they can isolate it with some good homegrown or European sourced technology. Plus they may well have come up with counter-espionage techniques that defeat Russian and American penetration that defeating the Chinese can't be any harder.
And in both cases, we can blame Trump's idiotic foreign policy for some of this. I'd wager if we had made Britain feel like they had a trade ally in Brexit and not shit all over German foreign policy, they might have gone along with us on Chinese telecom equipment.
Thats censorship. I thought slashdot was above censorship? Or is it only OK when you want to do it?
Mobile phones are a minor risk since easy to replace and detect. Infrastructure a bigger concern since harder to rip out. Democracies should ensure their vendors are less susceptible to influence to avoid over reliance. China and lately India limit foreign influence so prevalent behavior. Then there is Sketchy Corp behavior with IP and sanctions violations as another concern. But even US Cos sue each other over IP like Qualcomm vs Apple.
"But over time, with it combined with real hate, has poisoned our soles." Buy new shoes??...
devalue their currency to steal our jobs and manufacturing,
Anyone actually living in China can tell you that the country has been trying hard, really hard, to pop UP their currency, e.g. by restricting the annual maximum of foreign currency an individual can *send out* of China. Otherwise, Yuan would be worth as much as Yen. so you should thank them for popping up their currency, else made in China products would be much cheaper.
use that advantage to steal our manufacturing technology,
Joint venture requirement is allowed under WTO treaty which they and the US have both signed up to. And requiring tech transfer is not "steal". In practice, companies only transferred enough peripheral tech so to allow manufacturing to happen. If a manufacturer doesn't know how to make the product, how can it start manufacturing for you? the core tech such as source code and semiconductor design are still been done in the Silicon Valley and never transferred. In accordance with WTO commitments, China has gradually narrow down the catalogs of industries requiring JVs over time. Bottom line: walk away and give up the market or lower labor cost if you don't like the deal, China did not put a gun at your head, blame your own (or the top 1% Americans') greediness
hack our infrastructure/businesses,
Read the TFA
international business,
Maybe you learned your English writing in the fake US education system?
steal our ICBM technology, industrial and tech IP, and siphon our wealth.
So did the US
Of and hire a sockpuppet using the nick "ShanghaiBill"
Personal attack is a sign of paranoia
I don't know,
You are absolutely right on this! You don't know anything but keep spitting out BS.
Cisco, Microsoft and Intel also have been documented doing things. What rant do you plan to write as an AC about that?
Thats a distinction without a difference. Neither US is a capitalist country nor is China a Communist country. Both of them are Crony Capitalist or Fascist (Like Mussolinis Italy).
Fascism without the racism comes down to state directed capitalism where the State instead of being a regulator (as in Capitalism) or owner (as in Communism) is a promoter of industry. State directed capitalism. Mostly directed through export licenses, tax incentives, tariffs, exemptions to worker laws.
Nothing wrong with fascism (as long as you can keep the racism out of it) as it can lead to rapid progress like in Italy and Germany prior to WW2 (and prior to Hitler wasting resources on killing Jews) but please lets stop pretending that the US and Chinese systems are really different.
**Life is too short to be serious**
"Anyone actually living in China can tell you that the country has been trying hard, really hard, to pop UP their currency, e.g. by restricting the annual maximum of foreign currency an individual can *send out* of China."
That increases the value of their currency in reality, it does nothing for how they value their currency on international exchanges. When they start restricting the maximum amount of currency coming IN, value their currency appropriately on the foreign exchange, and start putting heavy tariffs on exports I'll start recognizing and applaud their efforts.
"If a manufacturer doesn't know how to make the product, how can it start manufacturing for you?"
You can't. That is a problem for the US how? But more than that, you can order a product to be made in China and watch your product appear sold by a chinese vendor on Alibaba within weeks. That is theft. In the case of software Chinese companies have horrendous records for contributing back to open source technologies. Regardless of whether you are technically acting legally or not there is such a thing as ethics, integrity, and self-respect. Design your own new technologies we haven't thought of yet and enrich the world. And yes, they steal our manufacturing technology, the minute the first chinese factory opened using modern US manufacturing techniques that wasn't owned by a US company that happened. You let our people train personal and learned how we worked and then copied it but you don't improve and give anything back, if anything you just cut corners.
"Bottom line: walk away and give up the market or lower labor cost if you don't like the deal, China did not put a gun at your head, blame your own (or the top 1% Americans') greediness"
Sounds good. Were you under the impression someone (sane, not weird trolls on slashdot) actually blames the actual people of China? Opposing our trade with China isn't really about hurting China, it's about helping us. It isn't about finding someone to blame. There is no reason for specific ill will toward China and any of that is just justification for taking the corrective actions we need to on the global stage.
Currently the scale is tilted toward China and it is tilted that way largely through technology and advancement they gained from the US. Instead of showing gratitude and using that gift to come to the table as a friend and partner China is trying to steal our spot at the head of the table. I'm not saying China should never earn the head spot but I am saying China should never earn the head spot by simply taking our technology and exploiting their massive labor pool and poor labor practices.
"Personal attack is a sign of paranoia"
No, his posting history indicates this is exactly what he is. He posts irrationally supportive responses including information ranging from misleading to outright false. It's called propaganda.
Is it the contradiction between, on the one hand, Oz gov won't use Huawei stuff since the Chinese might be spying, but on the other, Oz gov demands the ability for itself to spy/intercept?
Or is it examples of what retaliation might look like, for example https://www.abc.net.au/news/20...
Looks like the 5 eyes said "you first" to Oz, and now UK and NZ are saying "on second thoughts..." (yeah, I know this particular story mentions Germany, not NZ)
Remember when Obama was in office and there was outrage over spying on Angela Merkel's phone? Yeah, figured you forgot about that.
So Germany can either get in bed with America again, where the Germans know for an absolute FACT that America will be spying on them... or, they could take a gamble on Huawei.
As a government, I wouldn't trust either, but since they are not making the technology themselves, they will have to choose the lesser of the evils.
"Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
When they start restricting the maximum amount of currency coming IN,
Except that China is, and has been so most of last 4 decades, putting more effort restricting the outflow of foreign currencies. Your assertion has no base.
If Huawei really is an innocently accused company that has nothing to do with the Chinese state and its intelligence branches, they should state so and if necessary move out of China to escape any forced cooperation. But this hasn't happened and to me it is a clear admission that all the rumors are true.
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
There's Kickstarter, Patreon,
Yes, let's disrupt the boring old business model of artists getting paid for stuff they sell because people like it, and replace it with a return to begging.
Sorry, begging on the internet.
To have a right to do a thing is not at all the same as to be right in doing it