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IBM Apologizes For Racial Slurs On Its Recruitment Webpages (theregister.co.uk)
The Register: IBM has apologized after its recruitment webpages asked applicants whether their ethnicity was, among other options, the racial slurs Yellow and Mulatto. In online application forms for positions within the US tech giant, in among other questions ranging from military veteran status, and eligibility to work in America, a bizarre drop-down menu asked whether jobseekers were Caucasian, Black, or Indigenous, as well as the aforementioned insults. The Register was first alerted to the baffling error on Monday by an engineer who tried to apply for a technical role at IBM earlier this month, and was stunned by the slurs listed for a mandatory input field labeled: "Please state your ethnic group."
Well what else would Homer Simpson be?
Time for an unironic usage of 'git blame'.
We'll get everything we need from the mandatory DNA test.
I used that term with a friend of mine who is mixed-race. He told me it was offensive and that it was an Italian slur that referred to a coffee drink where milk and coffee were mixed together. He said that it's not offensive because of it's content, it's because of the way people used it in the past. However, then I looked it up and it's actually a Spanish or Portuguese word with "uncertain" origins. I basically look at it like this, you shouldn't call people things they don't like. I have an unusual name and when people butcher it or alter it, I get annoyed in a hurry (mainly because it's easy to pronounce and they do it on purpose). I can imagine that a racially charged term that someone is used to being flung at them by hostile racist assholes is that much worse. However, I was glad that my friend simply explained it to me and I was able to say "Oh, well I won't be using that again, then." That's a much more pleasant method for race relations than the kind of crap the mainstream media tries to propagate. I wonder if they'd like a race war, just to improve ratings!
"Mulatto" may have its roots in "mula"... "mule" in English. Being the sterile offspring of a horse and a donkey and used as an often-overworked pack animal, it's not a complimentary term.
-- Insert witty one-liner here. --
Blame the disparate impact judicial reasoning. To prove that one is an equal-opportunity employer, it isn't enough that you don't discriminate; you must be able to prove that you don't have practices that unintentionally result in "discriminatory" outcomes. And in order to prove that, they must collect racial data, so that under disparate impact analysis, they can prove that their hiring practices don't have a discriminatory result.
I'm from Europe, not from Armenia, Georgia or Azerbaijan
"We mustn't be caught by surprise by our own advancing technology" -- Aldous Huxley
Mulato is spanish for a mix between a white person and a black person. It's only a slur if you consider either halves of the ancestry a bad thing. There's also mestizo (white-indigenous) and zambo (black-indigenous.) Also, "negro" is just spanish for "black", and anglos insist in mis-speaking it.
Saying that a spanish word is a slur, is slurring people that have spanish as their first language. Please stop saying that spanish words are slurs, it only serves to marginalize spanish speaker, it is racist and generally disgusting. If you think continuing to do it, please consider separating yourself from society so that it can become more fair to everyone. More socially just, if you will.
Is mulatto an insult in the US of A?
so the question is meaningless right?
I believe it is of Spanish origin, and nothing to do with mules.
Remember that time Nintendo had to recall a Mario Party game because one of the ranks was "spastic?" Non-native speakers of a language can easily make a mistake like that, looking up a word without also knowing its derogatory connotations. Probably same thing here.
Isn't the requirement to report on actual employees, not applicants? So there is no need to ask until after you decide to hire them.
Data is available on people looking for work in a particular industry and on industry-wide demographics, for fair evaluation.
This is usually an optional question in Europe. The data is only seem by HR for statistical purposes, the people evaluating candidates doesn't get it. There is no advantage gained or lost by answering or not.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I learned the term "mulatto" from someone who self-described themself that way. This is the first time I've heard it called a slur.
Also never understood how "oriental" became offensive rather than descriptive. Personally I think using the term "Asian" to refer to what _some_ people in Asia look like is more offensive, as if they were the only people on the continent.
Yet "mula" is "mule" in both Spanish and Portuguese. I think claiming this is merely coincidental stretches credulity.
-- Insert witty one-liner here. --
I'm guessing this happened because the requirements only said to ask for ethnicity but failed to include the list. The developer went and found an obviously wrong list to force testing/acceptance to return a proper list. They all failed.
Trusting software vendors is no smarter than trus
Per Google search, using the search phrase, "etymology of mulatto":
so it was from Spanish, and does have to do with mules.
"Don't meddle in the affairs of a patent dragon, for thou art tasty and good with ketchup." ~ohcrapitssteve
Yellow as a race has long been considered inappropriate.
Careful with that phrasing!
Ezekiel 23:20
Better question is why it's being asked at all. Open-source doesn't ask. Why should anyone else?
This is what happens when you go to India of the Phillipines for your web development project and yell "okay, who's going to do this for the cheapest?" Tada, "localization problems" to put it politely.
I mentioned to a friend that it is hard to get a job in the USA, since I am an African American White. He retorted that I should be thankful, since *he*, is an African American White Jew and the only city he can ever find work in, is New York.
Perhaps they let Watson write the job ads. Back to the lab...
Table-ized A.I.
Lurking deep in the bowels of an emulated System 36, buried under layers of middleware, obscured by COBOL, is a faithful RPG reproduction of a stack of punch cards from the 30s or 40s. IBM's unholy integration of Java and PHP has exposed this ancient evil to the world once again. Why, young web developer, would you create a new list of ethnicities when Websphere is happy to provide you with a system defined list? What could possibly go wrong?
See that "Preview" button?
Agreed.
When is the last time you applied for a job and WEREN'T asked for your race?
I'm mulatto. White father and Indian mother (feather, not dot). First, time I've even heard any inclination that the term might be racist.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Isn't the requirement to report on actual employees, not applicants? So there is no need to ask until after you decide to hire them.
But how is that going to help if they're one of the overrepresented demographics? You'd need to know the race before making the hiring decision in order to make sure you're able to meet the diversity numbers.
In America, the question is on every job application I've ever filled out. I'm over 50, so that has been quite a few.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
In the US being an Equal Opportunity Employer is often more about the applicants than the people working. After all you can't control who quits or leaves, but you can control who you hire.
But in either case, you kinda have to know how many apply to say that you aren't discriminating. If you only hire 20 white males, that might look bad. But if you only had 100 white male applicants, that is ok (well, mostly). But if you hire 20 white males out of: 20 white male applicants, 20 white female, 20 black male, 20 asian male, 10 black females, 10 asian females. Than it looks like you have a bias.
Probably because you have to hire so many of $protectedclass to $whitemales there for you need to know when to look at the race metric and lay off the skill based hiring. Just my guess, our company just hires anyone that says they are an electrician and let's us in the field figure out who to keep and who to fire. I guess it's easier to deal with that way.
And the Wikipedia article:
The Real Academia Española traces its origin to mulo in the sense of hybridity; originally used to refer to any mixed race person
Real Academia Española
The Royal Spanish Academy (Spanish: Real Academia Española, generally abbreviated as RAE) is Spain's official royal institution with a mission to ensure the stability of the Spanish language.
So the 'mule' origin seems a bit of made-up-after-the-fact-bs to me (I will take the language's official authority as the ... well ... authority on the language).
Wikipedia also notes that the term may also have come from the arabic 'Muwallad'.
Finally there also appears to be quite a bit if disagreement as to if/when it become a derogatory and where in the world you see/hear it seems to tell a different story.
In short I had heard it used before (from someone who identified themselves as that) and I had no clue it was considered offensive so I am glad to not be in the habit of describing people by their skin tone.
You don't apply for many bank loans, do you? Ethnicity is most certainly a question asked on a mortgage loan application. It is a part of the Uniform Residential Loan Application, Freddie Mac Form 65 / Fannie Mae Form 1103. Google them.
Either you're not from the US, or you've never applied for a job. Even a fast food job has that question.
The problem is that the left demanded equal opportunity for all races, which pretty much everybody got on board with, and got a law passed. But, they set it up and won precedence setting court cases so that the only defense against racist policies for a company was to demonstrate equal outcomes. The law, in practice, requires a positive defense.
That question on job applications is part of the positive defense.
Aah, change is good. -- Rafiki
Yeah, but it ain't easy. -- Simba
Extreme left: See racism in Amerikkka.
Extreme right: IBM is just using it to hire cheaper minorities and take our jobs.
Normal people: What does race have anything to do with recruitment in the first place.
Why is "ethnicity" a mandatory field? Actually, given anti-discrimination laws, why is it not a "do not say anything about ethnicity, religion or sex on this or any other form" popup?
Your ad here. Ask me how!
Yeah. More examples of US Government-mandated racialism.
It's not the government's business (see 14th Amendment to the United States Constitution), it's not my employer's business, and it's not of your business.
This is a chance for you to learn that the same word can have different meanings and/or connotations in different countries.
It's use in the US is defensive. If you ask the question of all your applicants, you can have data to refute claims of bias in hiring. It's also always optional to answer.
So...you might want to take a moment to learn about the continent of Asia. Specifically, the countries that are on it.
I'm sorry you were triggered. Here, show me on this doll where the leftists touched you.
"When you have eliminated the unacceptable, whatever is left, however improbable, must be the truthiness" - Holmes
"Mulatto" may have its roots in "mula"... "mule" in English. Being the sterile offspring of a horse and a donkey and used as an often-overworked pack animal, it's not a complimentary term.
Don't be an ass.
"The average reporter we talk to is 27 years old......They literally know nothing." - Ben Rhodes
Well....n****r is just a color descriptor - and even has a country named from the same root. Original meanings mean nothing.
The reason they're asking these questions is to make sure they have a diverse work force, instead of a qualified workforce. It's more important for a company to be a mix of culture, then it is for a company to have an able and qualified staff, because skin color diversity makes the libtards happy, and that's all that matters anymore, because if you don't make them happy, they'll just #metoo your ass and waste massive resources over hurt feelings.
The idea that unequal results equals racism predates Obama. This is particularly true of the Fair Housing Act.
Obama just helped put mainstream this kind of thinking and supercharged it.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
That entire rainbow umbrella pretty much ensures that any sort of nuance will be completely lost as all manner of things (big and small) and wildly different things get lumped together.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Nah. It's still a-ok to call you a cracker.
Cracker? I prefer Saltine American, thank you.
It sounds more likely that mulatto and mule are siblings in language rather than parent-child, ie. both originating from the same root.
-=This sig has nothing to do with my comment. Move along now=-
Some of us are just genuine social libertines and find the new Victorian mindset appalling.
A Pirate and a Puritan look the same on a balance sheet.
Pretty sure they were shooting for 'milado', i.e. mixed race, most often black/white, but not exclusive. Where I grew up it was not at all disparaging. No idea where it is on the PC scale these days.
Yes, and one of the answers to the question is "I do not wish to furnish this information". They ask, but you are not required to answer. I see no reason to answer unless you believe your race will help your application.
Enigma
The problem is most of the "ethnicity" labels are rooted in some form of ignorance. For examples, the three terms The Register implies are legit categories of ethnicity: - If you read the history of "Caucasian," it was one of a tri-chotomy ethnic terms, the other two of which are roundly dismissed as offensive today. - The labels "black" and "white," besides being remarkably poor representations of skin tone, are rooted in a dichotomy that traces to the early days of supremacist thinking. - As for "indigenous," some consider it a white-washing (pun intended) of the many distinct cultures that inhabited present-day Canada and the United States before the age of European settlement. While it may be more acceptable than the malaprop "Indian," like "black" and "white" it does not describe an ethnicity. Truthfully, for most people, the most accurate description of their ethnic background is "Other." We all come from a differing nexus of our DNA and heritage, and to assume one is like the other simply due to skin tone or region of origin is a remarkably simplistic, and offensive, view of culture.
The asterisk implies this may have been a required field... Other things are odd, such as the additionally linked job requirements posting for an "intern" that required 1 year experience in a lot of things you don't get in school (ie, somewhere between entry level and junior).
I'm guessing this happened because the requirements only said to ask for ethnicity but failed to include the list. The developer went and found an obviously wrong list to force testing/acceptance to return a proper list. They all failed.
This is clearly a fantasy scenario - a developer would never go out of their way to do anything. :)
If you read the article, it appeared that the "offensive" items all had a prefix of "Brazil_" and mulato/mulatto is a term that means mixed race. From what I know of Brazil, they have a good portion of mixed race people. Not sure what is up with Yellow though.
I suspect that this is simply a mistake, no need to take to the streets or smash your IBM... uh... what do they make again?
My beliefs do not require that you agree with them.
There are lots of types of racism, and it's a tug of war. We have seen how a hands-off approach most definitely causes racial disparities in many instances, neighborhoods segregate, schools segregate, and so forth. Yet any action taken to solve these problems is seen as racist. In fact there are many people who think that there is no actual problem in the first place or that it shouldn't be solved or that segregation is desirable.
Collection of statistics is necessary, for example, if you need to determine if this segregation is happening because of discrimination or self selection.
People make stuff up and as long as it's on the internet someone will believe it -- Calvin Coolidge
I'm guessing it was written in another language and simply went though a translation program that isn't a full AI that can understand context or political correctness. Other languages use their own terms for race that translate as such.
In Spanish they often call me "whity" and I have to remember not to take offense every time they say it and it does not carry any baggage of a slur but rather an allusion of race. Which is how language should be.
It happens quite readily because it is NATURAL for people to tend to congregate, associate and prefer to live with people that look and act largely like themselves.
We all as humans have a bit of tribalism baked into us.
There's nothing wrong with this, as long as there is no discrimination or that type action if someone prefers to live differently.
This is just naturally the way humans tend to act if not forced by outside forces, like the government.
While everyone should be free and and able to live where they want, I don't think it is necessarily to have things gamed by the government.
Why not let people live lives directed by their natural tendencies?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I think down here in the New Orleans area...mulatto is synonymous to "creole".
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
I'm sorry you were triggered. Here, show me on this doll where the leftists touched you.
You win the internet today, David. And you owe me a non-soda drenched keyboard.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
"Mulatto" may have its roots in "mula"... "mule" in English. Being the sterile offspring of a horse and a donkey and used as an often-overworked pack animal, it's not a complimentary term.
Yet today, wouldn't the offspring of a Horse and Donkey be a Honkey?
That's just a joke. But seriously IBM, who in the devil's hot stinking taint thought that "Mulatto" and "Yellow" were in any way appropriate?
Even if Mulatto was at one point an acceptable term, so were retard, idiot, moron, imbecile and cretin. We cant do much about slur creep, other than to pay attention and not use the particular words deemed offensive
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Pretty sure they were shooting for 'milado', i.e. mixed race, most often black/white, but not exclusive. Where I grew up it was not at all disparaging. No idea where it is on the PC scale these days.
Probably not super offensive, but certainly archaic, and stupid to use.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
When is the last time you applied for a job and WEREN'T asked for your race?
I'm mulatto. White father and Indian mother (feather, not dot). First, time I've even heard any inclination that the term might be racist.
We're kind of locked in a weird sort of identity politic world these days. The best example is the star of Captain Marvel, Brie Larson, making the trip from far left to racism and sexism. https://www.youtube.com/watch?...
Too many white male critics, and repeatedly claims that she doesn't hate "White dudes"
In today's world, you are against racism and sexism by being racist and sexist. So my guess is if you are an SJW, the use of a race based word is fine.
Me? I just scrub my speech of as much language that can be connected to what we call "race" as possible. Not easy.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
US gov keeps track on a quota.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I think you may have missed the point of this exercise.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
I'll take the bait. Over represented demographics are an indicator that you have a problem with the hiring processes, when your groups demographics don't match the wider population then you should change the hiring/review/culture that caused the mismatch. You absolutely should never hire anyone but the best candidate and diversity numbers should never be a goal. This doesn't mean that the race of the person doesn't affect the assessment. For instance if a certain demographic typically performs worse in standardized testing then their ability would otherwise suggest then you should scale that appropriately when assessing the best candidate. If however the reason for your demographics being under represented is a surprising number of people leaving after your annual Christmas party a hooters no amount of hiring will fix it.
You're assuming this is the cause, however it can be measured if statistics are kept (ie, are minorities applying for housing loans in some areas but being rejected). Science should be able to trump gut-feelings.
For instance if a certain demographic typically performs worse in standardized testing then their ability would otherwise suggest then you should scale that appropriately when assessing the best candidate.
How exactly would you compensate for that? How many points is being an underrepresented minority worth on the standardized test? What if I'm not underrepresented but had a shitty kindergarten teacher who instilled a hatred of learning that took years to overcome, do you factor that in too?
I guess what I'm getting at here is that by looking at the race instead of the individual, you're committing exactly the problem (making judgments based on race) that you're trying to fix. It may be true that statistically group A performs different on a given standardized test than group B, but those statistics go out the window when you're evaluating an individual who may or may not fit that mold.
If however the reason for your demographics being under represented is a surprising number of people leaving after your annual Christmas party at hooters no amount of hiring will fix it.
Agreed.
"Oriental" is offensive because it literally means "eastern," and as such implies that Europe is the "default"/center of the world, and people from Asia are therefore the Other.
Geography does not seem to be your strong subject, and neither does Linguistics.
Have you heard the term "occidental"? If Europe is the Center of the World, why would Europeans be refereed to as Occidentals?
Yes, it used to be the formal (basically Latin) way of saying Western.
The words are not offensive due to their meaning, but due to their historical usage. I think the whole thing is mildly silly, but I only use such words when I deliberately want to be an asshole.
It's like "cis". It should not be an insult, but it is usually used as one. I have chosen to take offense and throw someone out of a party for using it. But it was a pretext, I was not particularly offended, I just disliked the screeching moron who was using it.
No good deed goes unpunished...
It happens quite readily because it is NATURAL for people to tend to congregate, associate and prefer to live with people that look and act largely like themselves.
We all as humans have a bit of tribalism baked into us.
There's nothing wrong with this, as long as there is no discrimination or that type action if someone prefers to live differently.
This is just naturally the way humans tend to act if not forced by outside forces, like the government.
How do you know this? It could just as easily be cultural. For example a culture that considers certain colours inferiour would resist the natural urge to breed for maximum genetic diversity.
The urge to not inbreed is pretty powerful, yet we have groups that prefer their siblings, and consider themselves superiour for doing it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
Uhhh... you salty?
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I'm neither an american nor a republican. The current strain of "progressives" can't think beyond their labels, though.
Even if Mulatto was at one point an acceptable term, so were retard, idiot, moron, imbecile and cretin. We cant do much about slur creep, other than to pay attention and not use the particular words deemed offensive
So calling some idiotic moron and imbecilic cretin is unacceptable? That's retarded. What am I supposed to call him? An "alternately-abled information challenged individual"? Yeah that just rolls of the tongue.
Of course those words will give offense when used as an insult. They are not offensive in and of themselves though. Just like "yellow" and "mullato" could be used in a context which makes them insulting, but have zero negative connotations in the context of an employment questionnaire. Pretty much ANY word can be used as an insult/slur. People who don't understand that are fucking retarded.
In polite company, a person can discuss and disagree without calling the other person a moron or retarded. Try disagreeing with your boss and call him or her âoeidiot âoe. In here, it isnâ(TM)t faux pas so much. But in either case, it shows an inability to form a good argumen when you resort to that sort of language. But do as you are able.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
People make stuff up and as long as it's on the internet someone will believe it -- Calvin Coolidge
I'm too drunk to taste this chicken-Col Sanders
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
One side effect of Forcing those âoedudesâ out of leadership careers is that when these women decide that its time to get married and have a family, the pool of acceptable men has shrunk a lot. They want a well paid man in a leadership role as a husband. Very few women marry down. But there are now very few that fit the requirements, and if a well to do male reaches his mi 30â(TM)s - early 40â(TM)s without getting married, he is probably enjoying the bachelor life.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
It just occurred to me, but go ahead and have fun with it!
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Right your boss would like it much better if you told him:
"Great plan, Einstein. You're a goddamn genius."
You didn't use the forbidden R word, so all is good.
The best outcome is of course to assess every candidate as an individual, this isn't however practical. So if you are short-listing a group of graduates based upon GPA then it is worth scaling to give the person who had to keep a job during college a chance. Most evidence of bias in testing is due to Socio-Economic factors not race, however minority races are generally lower placed socio-economically. So yes affirmative action is flawed and overly simplistic but let's not pretend that the 'no action' path is balanced. I personally believe that a shortlist of candidates ensure it includes minorities but after that point it should play no further part in the hiring process.
Right your boss would like it much better if you told him:
"Great plan, Einstein. You're a goddamn genius."
You didn't use the forbidden R word, so all is good.
You'll go far.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Thank you. I've been getting scared lately because terms that used to be benign are suddenly indicators of irredeemable bigotry of one sort or another. Mulatto isn't a term I generally used unless I was performing a certain Nirvana song, but I never would have thought it derogatory.
Racism is a problem and historically in America we've displayed our exceptionalism in how we've manifested it over they years. But the language is becoming a minefield of things that are suddenly unforgivable to express. And yes, in some cases it being done to weaponize the language for things like politics. But in cases like this, I think someone seems to have unilaterally declared parts of the language out-of-bounds without informing the rest of the English speakers.
Yes, using the terms on the application is odd and anachronistic. But when did they become slurs?