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'Prism, Prism on the Wall, Who is the Most Trustworthy of Them All?' Huawei Hits Back at US Over 5G Security Claims (zdnet.com)
The tension between Huawei and the U.S. government took a new turn Tuesday after the Chinese networking giant's rotating chairman Guo Ping poked fun at the massive surveillance programs maintained by the United States. "Prism, prism on the wall, who's the most trustworthy of them all?" Ping said onstage at Mobile World Congress tradeshow. From a report: Ping first appeared to attempt to make light of the ongoing row -- "There has never been more interest in Huawei, we must be doing something right," he said -- but later took a more direct aim at the US and some of its own issues with cybersecurity and surveillance. "Prism, Prism on the wall, who is the most trustworthy of them all?" he said, referencing the previously secret National Security Agency surveillance project, telling the audience to ask Edward Snowden -- the whistleblower who revealed the activity -- if they didn't understand what he meant. Ping also took aim at the US Cloud Act, arguing that the legislation allows the US government to demand access data held by US companies, even if it is stored in different countries. "The Cloud Act allows them to access data cross-borders. So for best technology and for greater security, please choose Huawei," he said.
The implication is that because NSA does data collection that somehow Huawei isn't an IP thief, fraud, espionage tentacle wholly owned by the Chinese Communist Party, an adversary that seeks military conflict with the US.
As much as I was dismayed by PRISM (12 years ago when I first found out about it right?) I don't see how this addresses Huawei's frauds or thefts or espionage for China ongoing.
https://www.businessinsider.com/second-huawei-employee-arrested-in-poland-on-suspicion-of-china-spying-2019-1
It's also not just the USA that noticed.
I am always assuming that I am being spied upon. However in America the first Amendment prevents me from being put in jail from my viewpoints, just as long as I am not using my speech intentionally hurt people. Also if content was released about me, that has only happened via my own government spying on me, then I have recourse against it. China doesn't have such advantages to its citizens.
I am not saying what America is doing is good, or the right thing to do. But at least I have some power and rights from it.
If something is so important that you feel the need to post it on the internet... It probably isn't that important.
Yet more people are incarcerated in the US than in China. Maybe you guys are just more criminally inclined.
Ive said this before and will likely have to say it again. If you use American tech, the Americans have access to your data. If you use Russian tech, the Americans and the Russians have access to your data. If you use Chinese tech the Americans, Russians, Chinese and everyones pet gerbil has access to your data. Its comical to live in a fantasy world where there is privacy. The only choice you have is who has access to your data.
Exactly, these points are overlooked. As much as we are shocked by the scope or scale of the collection, WHAT IT IS USED FOR is the key. In China such data is used to disappear dissidents, undesirable ethnicities, journalists, etc.
ONE MILLION UIGHURS IN CHINESE PRISONS. The Chief of INTERPOL for chrissake was arrested and secretly detained for MONTHS without being charged. These are common daily occurrences in China.
Now of course there can be a "whattabout the baby cages" argument related to US (Trump admin) policies against non-citizens at the US border, and the US D.O.C. is by no means an example of a well-oiled bureaucracy.
But the distinction is clear - there are protections in our laws and in our systems that respect and evaluate the rights of individuals, even those accused of crimes, in our system they are sacrosanct until evidence proves otherwise.
There is no comparison between our system and the lawless ethno-state criminal cabal Kangaroo courts that comprise the Chinese "legal" system, or government generally. None.
China is a criminal cabal without even the ATTEMPT AT PRETENSE of being a good faith legally obligated nation that protects ANYONE'S rights, except maybe Han-bloodline Uber-drones exclusively by birthright.
China has no laws, it's autocracy. The sooner apologist morons realize this fact in plain sight staring them in the face, the fewer morons need to see the inside of a Chinese "court" or prison to understand the difference.
There are well over 1 million ethnic Uighurs being detained for no actual crime in China.
Most estimates are that there are less than a million detained in the Xinjiang camps.
America incarcerates over 2 million people, roughly four times as many as China per capita. Many are in pre-trial confinement, having been convicted of nothing. Many others are in prison based on plea bargains rather than evidence. America has one of the world's highest false conviction rates.
There is plenty to criticize about China's prison system. There is much more to criticize about America's.
There's more to criticize about the US' prison system!?
China is a country that regularly disappears people and is currently trying to break a minority population through mass incarceration for reasons no civilized country would prosecute some one for.
On top of that, China's system lacks so much transparency we have to go with international estimates on what's going on with their prison system.
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Given that you lied about such things as blood plasma, I'll go with the UN. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-rights-un/u-n-says-it-has-credible-reports-that-china-holds-million-uighurs-in-secret-camps-idUSKBN1KV1SU
U.N. has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps
There's more to criticize about the US' prison system!?
The bottom line is that an American is four times more likely to be incarcerated than a Chinese citizen.
If you are rotting in prison, the fact that America's system is transparently unjust, so everyone knows about the high false conviction rate, and the defects of our plea bargain based courts, doesn't really mean much, so long as people don't care about the injustice.
So who doesn't care? Apparently you, since you would prefer to point to the other side of the world than address bigger problems here at home that we have the collective power to fix.
The bottom line is that you lied and claimed that the Chinese prison system is knowable to outsiders and the legal system is comparable to the US, where innocence until proven guilt w/ lawyers, evidence is the norm.
The bottom line is you lied about blood plasma being sterile more than anyone could count, so convinced your lying ass was right, even though it's 100% false.
The bottom line is the UN says there are credible reports of well over 1 million Uighurs (no mention of other groups, that's just 1) in SECRET PRISONS in China without crimes or convictions of them.
The bottom line, Bill, is you're a blathering liar in defense of an autocratic ethno-state criminal cabal credibly accused of crimes against humanity, and you're dishonestly trying to use whattaboutism to deflect.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-china-rights-un/u-n-says-it-has-credible-reports-that-china-holds-million-uighurs-in-secret-camps-idUSKBN1KV1SU
U.N. has credible reports that China holds million Uighurs in secret camps
The bottom line : The people in US prisons actually face trials. You're an apologist coward, Bill. You belong in a Chinese prison, bottom line.
Just because they may or may not have stolen technology, doesn't mean their products will spy on you.
Not only is that false, as someone else pointed out, but even the nugget of truth there is misleading. The US doesn't incarcerate more people per capita because of government corruption or the silencing of dissidents. It is mostly because of dumb drug laws, harsh sentencing of actual criminals (arguably also dumb), lack of effort around rehabilitation, and income inequality / segregation.
Total number of people in prison, or per capita figures, don't paint an accurate picture when comparing the US and Chinese governments. It is like comparing a poor starving person with someone on a diet. They may both be hungry but for very different reasons.
-- All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing. -- Edmund Burke
"The bottom line is that an American is four times more likely to be incarcerated than a Chinese citizen."
I don't really feel that's the bottom line. I feel like the bottom line is that in this country we have guaranteed rights. They might not function as well as they should but they're a hell of a lot better than what a Chinese person has. When Americans are regularly made to disappear by the government for minor infractions or simply because of things they say, get back to me.
"If you are rotting in prison, the fact that America's system is transparently unjust, so everyone knows about the high false conviction rate, and the defects of our plea bargain based courts, doesn't really mean much, so long as people don't care about the injustice."
So a fucked system that is transparent is worse than a fucked one that isn't? You're not making sense here.
"So who doesn't care? Apparently you, since you would prefer to point to the other side of the world than address bigger problems here at home that we have the collective power to fix."
If you can't make a sound argument based on what some one has said then put words in their mouth! Good work!
How does me thinking the Chinese prison system is more fucked than ours mean that I don't think we should be working on our own? You're full of it.
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There are well over 1 million ethnic Uighurs being detained for no actual crime in China.
Most estimates are that there are less than a million detained in the Xinjiang camps.
This is not correct. There are some estimates that are less than one million. Most are at least one million. Several are several million. But, of course, these estimates don't really matter. Would attitudes or policy change if the real number were 950,000 instead of 2 million?
America incarcerates over 2 million people, roughly four times as many as China per capita. Many are in pre-trial confinement, having been convicted of nothing. Many others are in prison based on plea bargains rather than evidence. America has one of the world's highest false conviction rates.
There is plenty to criticize about China's prison system. There is much more to criticize about America's.
Comparing the American justice system to the Chinese system is really hard, mainly due to the extreme opacity of the Chinese system. Yes, some of the per capita numbers for China are somewhat lower due to the big denominator. However, there are several significant factors that would favor facing the US system instead of the Chinese system:
(1) Many laws in China would be considered to be unacceptable by most Americans. For example, texting or posting offensive words like Tibet, Taiwan, or Winne the Pooh. Criticizing the president, his party, and existing laws. Possessing a beard or a Koran at home. Arguing certain viewpoints on Slashdot. The concept of "law" in China is very different in China, and most Americans would find it unacceptable.
(2) The judicial system in China does not protect the rights of the accused. Extra-judicial punishments, no effective right of appeal or even representation, no due process, no limits on cruel and unusual punishments.
On paper, China is the world's largest democracy and an exemplary protector of the rights of the people. In reality, the application of law in China is far inferior to the US system. This is not to say that the US system is great, good, or even satisfactory. It's only to show how truly bad the China system is.
Americans can banter about the philosophical differences between US and Chinese surveillance and law because they have the first-world problem of stating whatever they want within the insulating cocoon of American rights. Where are the corresponding Chinese discussions of Chinese surveillance and law? I'll give you a hint. It's not because the Chinese system is so perfect that there's nothing to criticize.
WHAT IT IS USED FOR is the key
Yeah, like these usages are entirely acceptable, since they are done by the GREATEST NATION on earth.
ONE MILLION UIGHURS IN CHINESE PRISONS.
Wow, what a change of heart for Americans! We are suddenly having real empathy about Muslims, as long as they are not being locked up in Guantanamo.
The Chief of INTERPOL for chrissake was arrested and secretly detained for MONTHS without being charged.
Wow, another change of heart for a top Chinese security official who supposedly have done, well because he was the top police chief, all the political crimes such as "disappear dissidents, undesirable ethnicities, journalists, etc."
Yes they do because in the pressure of the moment, they are told that if they don't then innocent or not it is doubtful they're going to be able to prove their innocence and if they don't want to have any more trouble necessary evil take the plea bargain. To most people being threatened by the most powerful incarceration machine in the free world is extremely intimidating. Especially when your experience in life is that the rules only help the people who make the rules and f*** everybody else due to selective enforcement and glaring exploits actually practiced by those in positions of reputation power and or financial advantage.
You're an apologist coward, Bill. You belong in a Chinese prison, bottom line.
Actually, he might be an employee just doing his job as directed. The logic that it is okay to jail only a million people without trial because 'Murrica bad! is just ludicrous.
Yeah, America jails too many people. This was the result of three major things. Thig one was the "get tough on crime" movement, the victim's right's movement, and the for profit prison system. All were intertwined.
The biggest problem of making the prison system a profit center is that like all corporate entities, you have to make more profit the next quarter. And there are limits to how cheaply you can maintain prisoners, so the answer is to make sure you have more prisoners in prison for a longer time.
For that, the magic elixir of the outrageous mandatory penalties for non-crime crimes like weed possession, the three strikes rules that could put a person in prison for life for silly things like shoplifting food, and the ability of the victims to keep a person in prison based on how they feel.
I can be sympathetic to the victims, but the rest of those assholes should be the ones behind bars.
But here's the thing - it isn't a crime for me to express that opinion. Bill should try some pointed criticism at the Chinese government - calling them assholes that belong in prison.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
The logic that it is okay to jail only a million people without trial because 'Murrica bad! is just ludicrous.
I never said any such thing.
The fact that innocent people in China are unjustly imprisoned is wrong.
The fact that innocent people in America are unjustly imprisoned is also wrong.
By pointing out that America is proportionally worse, I am not in any way justifying China's behavior.
The logic that it is okay to jail only a million people without trial because 'Murrica bad! is just ludicrous.
I never said any such thing.
The fact that innocent people in China are unjustly imprisoned is wrong.
The fact that innocent people in America are unjustly imprisoned is also wrong.
By pointing out that America is proportionally worse, I am not in any way justifying China's behavior.
Tell us why it is porportionally worse. What is the execution rate in China? Are their prisoners treated well? Are they given trials? Are they imprisoned for opinions?Tell me how you arrived at the conclusion that you would rather be jailed in China than in the USA. You made your claim twice, support it.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction.
It is not much different in the US. . The owners of the large corporations set the government agenda and policies, and the public at large has no influence over it.