Prioritizing the MacBook Hierarchy of Needs (sixcolors.com)

Jason Snell, writing for Six Colors: This week on the Accidental Tech Podcast (ATP), John Siracusa floated the concept of a MacBook Hierarchy of Needs, a priority list of features for the next time Apple redesigns the MacBook line, as is rumored to happen later this year. It's a fun thought experiment, because it requires you to rank your wish list of laptop features. That's important, because if I've learned anything in this wacky world of ours, it's that you can never get everything you ask for, so you've got to prioritize.

The ATP hosts all made a "good keyboard" their top priority, an idea that would've been surprising a few years ago but now is almost a given. Yes, of course, Apple laptops need to be fast and reliable and have great displays and good battery life, but the past few years' worth of MacBooks have made a lot of people realize the truth: a bad/unreliable laptop keyboard isn't something you can really work around if you're a laptop user. This is why a lot of nice-to-have-features, like SD card slots, have to fall way down the hierarchy of needs. Any feature that can be rectified with an add-on adapter falls immediately to the bottom of the list. You're stuck with a laptop keyboard forever, and if you're committed to the Mac and every single Mac laptop that's sold uses the exact same keyboard, there's nowhere to run.

Comments

It's just a freakin laptop

[pablo_max]

Seriously, how hard must their lives be that they are dedicating such an absurd amount of time making a dream list for a crappy laptop and then publishing this list for other fanbois to pine over.
Why don't you just do what normal people do? If the product is crap, buy a different one rather than writing love letters about it.

Apple fanbois really are a different sort of person.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[BladeMelbourne]

If they want to pay extra for crap - it's digital Darwinisiam.

Apple hasn't been an innovative leader for a decade. It's best to look elsewhere.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[hackertourist]

Some people accept whatever crappy tool they can find, even if that causes them tons of aggravation down the line. Others realize it's worth investing in top-quality tools. Apple's products used to be top-quality tools, and can be again if the company quit fucking around.

The effort required to turn Apple laptops into top-quality tools is far lower than that required to turn a Windows laptop into a top-quality tool. That's why we don't switch.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm just curious as hell what Hackingbear thinks about this topic given it doesn't have anything to do with either Huawei or China.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Chrontius]

I’m shopping for a Unix laptop that runs MS Office. Got a buying guide I can work from?

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[goosesensor]

You're glossing over a very key point: macOS. As hard as it may be for you to understand, your average computer user, even intelligent people who do real work, usually can't easily up and switch to a new OS and stay productive. Yes Apple makes switching away harder with their ecosystem lock-in, but still, changing primary OSs is a large task for most people.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

They have cash to burn. They are shareholders of super-successful startups, of which there are plenty in San Francisco. Not only that, but they are super cocky and unreasonably bullish about their company's potential IPOs and believe they will be ultra rich by the end of this year.

But this is a story for another time.

I was reading one tech blogger's "wet dream" would be a 5G cellular-capable MacBook... Can you imagine running a full desktop OS connected solely via cellular radios? Data may be technically 'unlimited', but 50GB of guaranteed high-speed data (as per Verizon's Beyond Unlimited plan, for example) will only get you so far in a month if used on a laptop.

Browsing Reddit daily in a week might shoot past 50GB easily.

I don't know what these Apple acolytes are smoking (this week), but I'd sure like to try some of that.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

I’m shopping for a Unix laptop that runs MS Office. Got a buying guide I can work from?

Any. The end.

Any laptop will work. Any Unix OS will work. Hell, NetBSD's claim to fame is ability to run on anything. Any Unix OS of the last 20 years can either run Office natively or via 365.

How is this hard?

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[blindseer]

I took this "MacBook hierarchy of needs" thought as a more general wish list for a laptop. I don't believe it's as much about Apple laptops specifically but shopping for a laptop generally.

Leave the fanboys out of this. What is your wish list on a laptop? Now, hand that wish list to a number of laptop manufacturers and see how many will grant your wishes. Maybe it's Apple, maybe it's not.

It's fine to think that you can just go somewhere else but, what if nobody makes a laptop that fits your hierarchy of needs?

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

Not a helpful comment from you. Some laptops have better support for Linux than others.

https://makeawebsitehub.com/best-laptops-linux/

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

What's a computer?

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Joce640k]

As hard as it may be for you to understand, your average computer user, even intelligent people who do real work, usually can't easily up and switch to a new OS and stay productive.

Sure they can. It's only people like you holding them back by telling them it might be difficult.

How's this for a though: Any effort they put in will be rewarded tenfold by being able to choose between dozens of keyboards/screens/etc in the future.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Joce640k]

Add to this a "screen where I can see what's on it and not just a reflection of my face and every light and brightly lit object in a 100 yard radius".

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

It is NOT just a MacBook

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

>_ Unless you are a developer/professional hipster, why would you want a laptop? You can do more with a smartphone and its cheaper. Bluetooth keyboard, screen mirroring and you are there

You're kidding, right? Because as trolling that would be subpar...

This being still 2019, one user worth her/his salt cannot say a smartphone is a valid alternative for personal computation. I cringe at banks offering banking "apps" for security reasons. And don't start me on screen size...

A desktop OTOH is "a little" inconvenient to carry; a laptop is still too heavy -- "ultrabooks" are not light enough and their price means giving up your first son. That is the current regrettable state of affairs...

But IMHO *all* laptop keyboards suck: either because of the touchpad or because keys are undersized, too flat, too close or even missing. Just some days ago a neighbor kid asked for a spare keyboard to use with her mother's laptop. He's 7 y.o. so this is literally a "the king is naked" example.

That all said, Macbooks are way too expensive and Apple is going fast in the wrong direction. Even Microsoft these days senses the future is in the open arena. Even for a *BSD fan, a Macbook would be a better idea with non Apple software.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

A million times this

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[mrwireless]

I tried to switch, but there's simply nothing as good as Keynote on Windows or Linux.

I looked at all the options:
- Hackintoshes are too much work and unstable with upgrades.
- Fulltime virtual machines.. not really an option either.

After Apple released the new Macbook Air.. I decided to buy the 2017 Macbook Air, precisely for its keyboard. Not so much for reliability, but because I wanted to have some key travel.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[thegarbz]

Why don't you just do what normal people do? If the product is crap, buy a different one rather than writing love letters about it.

Multiple reasons:

a) Vendor lockin. Switching from a Lenovo machine to a Dell machine both running Windows 10 with a slightly different clicky feel on they keyboard and a slightly different graphics card is orders of magnitude different than moving from an Apple *ecosystem* to a Windows / Linux one. Note that word ecosystem. You're not just changing laptops. You're affecting your other fixed devices, your portable devices, you're affecting your software, your existing files, you're changing the way of working, potentially the services you (or worse, your customers) use.

b) Because the product isn't crap, it just has a list of minor annoyances that prevent it from being perfect. So what device do you switch to? I'm no Apple fan but I can give a non-Apple example: I don't like that the Surface Pro only has 1 USB port. What should I do? Switch to a Lenovo Miix with it's horrible keyboard, inaccurate pen and poor quality kickstand? Get the HP Spectre X2, a device which my father has returned under warranty twice?

Apple fanbois really are a different sort of person.

Actually they are taking a completely thought out human approach to their predicament. Try to be less judgy.

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Maelwryth]

I was looking at buying a linux laptop the other week. I believe all of the will run Office under wine. https://masonbee.nz/category/t...

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

A good keyboard is indispensable. I guess if you are lazy and nothing you do matters you could use some kind of gesture alphabet to amuse yourself. A laptop without a good keyboard and monitor is literally worthless.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[fluffernutter]

Isn't Keynote just Powerpoint?

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[fantod]

I've have been looking at other laptops. All laptops have compromises. It used to be Apple compromise was the price, max heat/thinness, and the shiny screen. I've found plenty of laptops that have terrible keyboards, limited Linux support, no SSD, no PCI SSD, terrible trackpads, terrible screens, limited RAM, poorly thought out high DPI screens, even worse thermal management, touchbar-like gimmicks, etc. I won't buy a current MacBook Pro, and probably never again, but I haven't seen anything else I liked unreservedly, either.

I also reserve the right to complain about how the last decade of Linux Desktop development has gone to produce something that looks like but isn't as good as Windows 95, and how of my 4 most used Windows app, 3 of them quit differently and all have different chrome. Also how Haiku apps stutter, even though the multithreaded UI was supposed to prevent that.

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

1. I, like many people, depend on a laptop for work and my livelihood. So, it is not just a laptop.
2. I see no viable competition to MacOS. Windows remains a nightmare for me, and suffers from numerous security issues. Linux seems just ok, and not ready for prime time.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Howitzer86]

Obviously not, or else they could just use another keyboard (without looking silly).

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[ciurana]

Keynote is just PowerPoint like a Corvette ZR1 is jjust a car,

Cheers!

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[fluffernutter]

I've been reading some feature comparisons, and they both seem to do the same thing. Keynote just spoon feeds you Apple's design better.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Hognoxious]

I suppose in theory it's better to have some influence over what happens instead of whining about it later.

What am I on about, it's Apple. ROFLMAO. Courage!

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Oh really now]

Somewhat true, but what Keynote does better than PowerPoint is get stuff out of the way. If you're an occasional slide show creator like most of the world, you'll get your presentation done in a tiny fraction of the time using Keynote. PowerPoint is less immediately intuitive, and takes more time to find where certain features are hidden among the sea of widgets. Keynote has a more simplified interface.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

Why don't you just do what normal people do? If the product is crap, buy a different one rather than writing love letters about it.

Because macOS does not run on other hardware.

As someone who works in IT, and who dogfoods Linux on their workstation, and uses Windows on their work laptop, I like not having to futz around with things on my personal iMac.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Joce640k]

Preferably a keyboard that has a DEL key.

(...and PgUp/PgDn/Home/End).

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[speedlaw]

I'm someone locked into Apple. Why ? My children pounded on them for years--no issues with data loss or OS. My wife is an appliance user...no issues with her stuff either. Every time someone gives me a Windows machine I spend hours on updates (that often don't load) and getting nonsense out of the start up folder. Based simply on time "running the box", and not even doing work, the money spent on Apple has paid back in time returned to my life. YMMV and I don't code, but the only Windows machine we have is my son's gaming rig...and even he wishes he wasn't forcibly "upgraded" to 10. So, just no.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[speedlaw]

and if my option was Win7, OK. Win 10 POS

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Cmdln Daco]

He didn't say Linux. That could be a chromebook, which has deep linux support since it runs a Linux kernel tuned by the manufacturer.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[drinkypoo]

The effort required to turn Apple laptops into top-quality tools is far lower than that required to turn a Windows laptop into a top-quality tool. That's why we don't switch.

If you buy an Apple laptop with a garbage keyboard and no card reader, you're a top-quality tool.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

How many more years are you mac fanatic clowns going to continue beg apple for an ok macbook?

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[fluffernutter]

I learned PowerPoint from front to back, with making fully animated slides by creating objects with multiple shapes in a matter of 4 hours.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[605dave]

Ever hear the expression "1 size does not fit all"?

I am happy with the purchase and it has served me admirably. So I bought a MacBook, I am not a fool.

You think they are overpriced and you can get a better deal. You are not a fool.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[jythie]

Depends on what you use your tool for. One of the big reasons people use Macs is the OS and software, and stick with the macbooks mostly because hackintoshs are too much trouble.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Ensign_Expendable]

I must be one of five people in the world that loves the current keyboard. The keys are larger and the short "travel" helps me type faster. The dust issue is problematic, I will concede.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[jythie]

Even when people can switch, they still might simply prefer OSX. In my lab we have windows, OSX, and linux machines, and many of us use all 3 for various tasks. But when it comes to laptops pretty much everyone uses macbooks to do their real work.. and this is a software development shop and thus not exactly 'average users'.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[jythie]

This. Keynote is a great tool for occasional users or ones who just want to produce slides. Powerpoint is better if you really want to get into producing flashy 'wow' presentations.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

Or they're just advocating for a product they want that feels more like the golden age of the product, just like the new Ford Bronco. This doesn't have alot to do with it being Apple specifically. It has to do with a once great product falling in quality or disappering and the devoted fans wanting to get back to the past glory. I have a couple of older Macs, Lenovos, a Dell, and a Purism laptop currently and I miss the good days of Apple for sure but just wanting a return to glory doesn't mean you can't also use other products.

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

That all said, Macbooks are way too expensive and Apple is going fast in the wrong direction.

Apple is riding in the same boat as cable operators. The relentless demands of stockholders for growth has placed them in a bad position. Once you have saturated your natural market you cannot count on market growth and you need to soak your current customer base for it. Since Apple is on the extreme end of pricing, customers begin to abandon you for alternatives even if they are not totally fungible. What do you do? Drop your prices and people begin to question the strategy and value of your premium brand. Do nothing and you lose market (and mind) share. The only workable alternatives are innovation or expand into other markets. Apple is trying (A) with their wearables and (B) with their Hail Mary on services.

I wouldn't expect any real innovation from the Mac bunch in the near future. They are also rans now.

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

1. I, like many people, depend on a laptop for work and my livelihood. So, it is not just a laptop.
2. I see no viable competition to MacOS. Linux seems just ok, and not ready for prime time.

What do you use your Apple notebook computer for in your personal life and in your professional life? I have been using GNU/Linux full-time since January 2000 for personal and professional tasks. I am seriously curious about your requirements.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

Seriously, how hard must their lives be that they are dedicating such an absurd amount of time making a dream list for a crappy laptop and then publishing this list for other fanbois to pine over.
Why don't you just do what normal people do? If the product is crap, buy a different one rather than writing love letters about it.

Apple fanbois really are a different sort of person.

More importantly, if a "good keyboard" is literally at the top of the priority list, then stop fucking around with the shitty factory keyboard and just buy a damn external one. I carry a TKL mechanical keyboard with me when I travel. It's not hard, and it's certainly not worth having to endure the world of Microsoft over something that trivial.

As far as a list of needs that will never amount to actual change, have fun with that. The vendor doesn't give a flying fuck what you think or what you want. You're going to get what makes them the most money. They've proven that long ago.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

Ever hear the expression "1 size does not fit all"?

I am happy with the purchase and it has served me admirably. So I bought a MacBook, I am not a fool.

You think they are overpriced and you can get a better deal. You are not a fool.

I don't use Apple so I have no first hand knowledge of keyboard issues but you do not address the obvious concern. If the keyboard is indeed garbage then it stands to reason that the tool is not fit for purpose. The keyboard is an integral and necessary part for the operation of a laptop. A substandard keyboard would be a major disqualification for most buyers of premium cost laptops.

For years Apple users have made claim that the Apple brand commands a premium price due to the much higher standard of the component parts. For years others have made the case that other manufacturers have standards just as high for components. Features like card readers, Ethernet ports and multiple USB ports have been removed. The memory is non-upgradable. So, just exactly where are the goalposts now?

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

if you don't like screen, try tmux or byobu.

--XYZZY--

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

But when it comes to laptops pretty much everyone uses macbooks to do their real work.. and this is a software development shop and thus not exactly 'average users'.

Are you at a San Francisco startup with a bunch of hipster brogrammers? Are there more Starbucks cups or tattoos in the building than dress shirts? Do conversations at the water cooler focus on how terrible it is when breeders have more than one child? These might be your answer to why.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm someone locked into Apple. Why ? My children pounded on them for years--no issues with data loss or OS. My wife is an appliance user...no issues with her stuff either. Every time someone gives me a Windows machine I spend hours on updates (that often don't load) and getting nonsense out of the start up folder. Based simply on time "running the box", and not even doing work, the money spent on Apple has paid back in time returned to my life. YMMV and I don't code, but the only Windows machine we have is my son's gaming rig...and even he wishes he wasn't forcibly "upgraded" to 10. So, just no.

As a Windows user: A MILLION TIMES THIS!!!!!!! If you only occasionally turn on your Windows machine, you might find it takes hours or days before the damn thing settles down to less than 100% disk activity. Every fucking app registers its own boot check for updates stomping all over everything else trying to start. The anti-virus brings the system to its knees as it tries to update. Windows tries to update causing massive constipation. I leave machines running 24/7 even if I don't need them just so that they will be available when I do.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

Some people accept whatever crappy tool they can find, even if that causes them tons of aggravation down the line. Others realize it's worth investing in top-quality tools

Most who buy Apple products have no clue as to what a quality tool is -- they just believe the hype/reality distortion field.

Apple's products used to be top-quality tools, and can be again if the company quit fucking around.

Apple hadn't had quality products since just before "the second coming" of Jobs. The reality is that Jobs rushed crappy, untested products to market to beat competitors to the punch, and now we have a world of manufacturers who never do proper field testing. The term "first adopters" was creation of the Apple (it was one of the very few things that actually originated with Apple).

The effort required to turn Apple laptops into top-quality tools is far lower than that required to turn a Windows laptop into a top-quality tool. That's why we don't switch.

That's the reality distortion field. It's just hype.

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

If Apple is releasing a redesign this year, the wish list is already too late, another important point.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[quonset]

So you're saying it's easy to use, doesn't require daily maintenance, and isn't expensive to update?

Sounds like a good product.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[skegg]

>> What am I on about, it's Apple. ROFLMAO. Courage!

If not for this minor (yet major) point. They're giving feedback to one darn obstinate, hubristic company.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Joce640k]

No true Scotsman?

Macbooks are fine for reading your email or dashing off a tweet in a darkened corner of Starbucks. Apparently that's a decent chunk of the population so fair enough.

But ... a "top-quality tool" they are not. Typing code on them is a complete chore with all the missing keys and I have yet to find a decent FTP program for the Mac (eg. equivalent to WinSCP).

I own and use both, there's no way I could use a Macbook for any sort of serious work.

PS: A Chromebook would give most MacBook users the same user experience and same "minimal setup" for half the price. Apple's only real selling point is image.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Joce640k]

Most who buy Apple products have no clue as to what a quality tool is -- they just believe the hype/reality distortion field.

They like the Apple stores, they see their friends have pretty MacBooks, they go with the flow.

Apple really understands marketing and presentation.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Joce640k]

The new Win8+ start menu and "flat" colors are a UI disaster, yes. The first thing I do with any Windows PC these days is install Classic Shell.

Apart from that, Win10 isn't awful.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Joce640k]

Bollocks. Nobody develops real software with a MacBook keyboard.

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

Then get a Retina or an A1278. (With RAIDed SSD's and faster RAM my 2011 i7 beats out a 2015 i5 Retina)

Also, you do realize that OSX can just automatically connect to an FTP server right? There is no killer FTP app because no one needs one.

Also isn't there FileZilla if you really want to be a Luddite?

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

Standards just as high as Apple in the PC world? Did your mother drop you on your head when you were a baby? There's nothing in the PC sphere within a million miles of the MacBook Pro line in terms of component quality. I can tell you exactly how many times I've seen an ISL6259 IC over a BQ Chinese clone in a PC mobo. Zero. Look at how much wasted space comprises a PC mobo. Look at the case material.

Only an idiot would say that it's arguable that PC's have as good build and component quality as Apple. The difference is as night and day as a product made on CNC machinery and a caveman pounding it with a rock.

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

FTP? Open the fucking Terminal dumbass.

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

The "dust issue" is a lie. See also third gen KB with "dustproofing". The keys still fail.

The contacts aren't coated right and that's a manufacturing process flaw. The coating flecks off and causes bad connection and key bounce. Stop believing everything the dunces at 1 Infinity Loop tell you

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

It is shocking how arrogant Apple is, going against what everyone needs for their own perceived values.

While these mac nerds are banding together to ask for a keyboard that isn't a pile of shit, Apple is busy converting their chips to ARM so nothing can be run in WINE or bootcamp. They won't have an expensive shtty keyboard at the top of their problem list in a couple years, lol

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

What are you doing that prevents you from using PowerPoint like 99% of the business world?

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

it doesn't support ftps implicit or explicit, it doesn't support sftp..

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Chrontius]

Normally I don’t reply to trolls.

But “Network Utility” alone is enough to make me seriously consider never abandoning OSX, even if I have to refurb an old white MacBook and run the oldest supported software to make it snappy again.

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Chrontius]

I’d prefer BSD, but at this point I’m willing to consider any Unix distro whose UI isn’t a bag of dicks, (Unity, I’m looking at you) and where I don’t need to drop into the terminal unless I want to.

Honestly, I like Chromebooks. (Especially for handing to people who don’t “do computers” - automating myself out of a job supporting family IT bullshit is nice! Last time I did it, though, it was with MacOS, but I’d definitely be pitching Chrome these days) That’s not what I’m looking for, here, though. Though, I suppose, a hacking-shed or devmode Chromebook (pixel?) might actually suit me quite nicely.

That said, since when did they have a decent (read: reliable, drama-free) way to run MS apps on Unix?

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Paul Carver]

Whatever you're using ftp for should definitely have been retired about a decade ago, but does sshfs not work on a mac? My laptop runs Linux and I mostly use scp from the command line, but do on occasion use sshfs if I feel like I absolutely must use a file browser. Why would you want to use a different file browser for remote files than you do for local files?

I use sshfs on my laptop, on my servers, on raspberry pi, on my OpenWRT routers. It's basically just sftp under the hood so it would be bizarre if it doesn't work on a mac.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Chrontius]

It probably has something to do with the local broadband monopoly not delivering anything fit for service

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Chrontius]

Time you spend operating the computer is time you can’t spend using the computer?

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

Apple really understands marketing and presentation.

Well, Apple certainly knows how to put one over on the clueless.

Enjoy your crapple!

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[vux984]

Ive got a few blockers, but one key area where linux falls flat in professional use:

skype for business meetings, microsoft teams meetings, ring central conference calls, teamviewer meetings, onedrive for business, and sharepoint document collaboration stuff.

Linux is very much a 2nd class citizen or excluded outright. Yes, some options support linux, and for office365 you've got the web-apps which do _some_ of the stuff, but it's limited and slower.

You can't dictate what your clients, and partner organizations use and its unprofessional and unacceptable to be "difficult" to meet with people, to only be able to join from a smart phone when training and presentations are being made etc. (And using your phone to get around limitations in linux still requires acknowledging that those are limitations with linux that you had to introduce a 2nd platform in order work around them.)

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

^^^^ Spotted the fanboi. Here's a hint, brah. If components were universally so awesome nobody would be bitching about the keyboards.

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

Yeah. Windows has maintenance tasks which have to be run frequently. Updates, Defrag, there is one that deletes your desktop shortcuts to shared files if you are on a laptop and take it out of the building. Most of these tasks are recommended to be done when the computer is powered on but not needed. Thus it is expected practice to leave the computers running 24x7.

Faster computers, especially ones with SSDs, can complete these maintenance tasks quicker, and often with less impact on foreground processes.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[angel'o'sphere]

The MacBook keyboard is a relatively new issue.
So yes, many people use macs for software development.

I never tried the new keyboard, so I have no idea how it feels.

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

They should keep and lower the price of the MacBook air, Mac mini and maybe an entry level iPhone again. If people can at least afford to get into the apple system while they're young many will buy pro equipment growing up. As is they are losing the younger generation.

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

If you are still on a hdd boot drive, log off Slashdot and go mow a lawn or three if you need one. A 240GB ssd is $30 on Amazon.

On an unrelated matter, Bumblebee movie has the best 90 seconds of G1 Transformer cinematic goodness. Good soundtrack tour too. Humans, as always, were terrible, and plot armor abounds. But those two clips.... Whoo!

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

You can't choose what your family uses, but you can absolutely choose whether or not your friends, partners and clients do. If you want me to integrate windows 3.11 with a trumpet winsock as your public facing mission critical whatever... You're not going to be a client.

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

I love how the bay area fudgepackers with their mighty modpoint sleeper accounts have modded y'all down.

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

It feels like utter crap, key sizes and positions have changed, not just depth.
Not to mention it is now paired with a needlessly gigantic trackpad, and so your palms don't have familiar rest areas.

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

Itâ(TM)s because we donâ(TM)t want to use Windows

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Chrontius]

I find that most of them I've laid hands or eyes upon in person lately have all of those compromises you point out. The only exception is the "poorly thought out high DPI screens" part, since most of them omit that feature entirely.

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[vux984]

"If you want me to integrate windows 3.11 with a trumpet winsock as your public facing mission critical whatever... You're not going to be a client."

Sure that's fair. You can easily afford to walk away from those potential clients. But can you really afford to walk away from everyone who uses office 365? And not just from clients, but also vendors, subcontractors, and other 3rd parties?

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

Agreed. I don't understand the hate for windows 10, though I share the hate for the default start menu. Classic shell fixes nearly all of my issues with win 10, and the addition of the Linux subsystem makes up for the deficits.

Re: It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

I buy MacBooks because I prefer MacOS and one of the reasons that I prefer MacOS is because it is closely tied to the hardware which can only be done be a company that makes both hardware and software.

I have an iPad Pro because I need the larger screen. IOS is horribly locked down.

Apple has some good things going for it:

- Accessibility; apple does screen zoom, reader, and other aids best.
- Privacy
- Unix subsystem on MacOS
- Resale value
- Built in backup, and security that works very well

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

"I don't understand the hate for windows 10"

You probably don't do any work on it. Try to leave a task running for days/weeks and see what happens. Try to use the computer day in-day out for your small business, then walk in to the office one morning to discover that all of your work has been lost.

Yes, I know the user is responsible for saving their work, but they should not have to *fight* with the OS in this regard.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[Anonymous Coward]

"- Fulltime virtual machines.. not really an option either."

Why? I live in VMs, never been a problem.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[tsa]

Most flashy wow presentations are extremely annoying to watch.

Re:It's just a freakin laptop

[finkployd]

That effort required has become a LOT closer in recent years. I've switched. (after 15 years)

magsafe

[Anonymous Coward]

magsafe has saved my laptop from death countless dozens of times. unless they bring back magsafe i will only be buying used macbooks ... which also have good keyboards.

Re:magsafe

[Anonymous Coward]

Why'd they get rid of magsafe in the first place? Seems like a keen idea, what's the catch?

Re:magsafe

[Pezbian]

Why'd they get rid of magsafe in the first place? Seems like a keen idea, what's the catch?

Don't have to buy another one if it doesn't get pulled onto the floor?

Re:magsafe

[Anonymous Coward]

Learn not to be such a clutz!!

millions of people survive with laptops that don't have a mag safe... you can too.

Re:magsafe

[blindseer]

Why'd they get rid of magsafe in the first place? Seems like a keen idea, what's the catch?

Here's one guess, they had a lot of problems with a lot of Magsafe power supplies. Mostly the cords were failing on them and they had to replace a lot of them. They likely just thought they'd do better with using USB-C than trying to get MagSafe to work right.

Another guess, people complained that MagSafe wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Laptops got real light and MagSafe actually pulled laptops off tables. Make the magnet weaker and now the weight of the cable can pull it loose.

One more guess, people didn't like the idea of being locked in to Apple only power cables when other manufacturers were now switching to the industry standard USB-C.

As I recall Dell and Lenovo allow for the use of their old power cables as well as USB-C to power their laptops, especially on the higher end. I'd like to see Apple do this, MagSafe and USB-C charging on new laptops.

Re: magsafe

[Anonymous Coward]

Because laptops were getting so light that the magnetic part would have been too strong to reliably disconnect instead of just dragging th laptop to the floor.

Re:magsafe

[fluffernutter]

You couldn't even use magsafe on your lap in bad, the cord would keep coming out. Of course I have the same problem now with USB-C.. Apple just doesn't care about people using a laptop anywhere other than at a desk.

Re:magsafe

[fluffernutter]

I've tripped over Thinkpad cords a few times. Laptop/port/cord were built sturdy enough to keep going without having to release.

Re:magsafe

[Anonymous Coward]

magsafe has saved my laptop from death countless dozens of times. unless they bring back magsafe i will only be buying used macbooks ... which also have good keyboards.

You're not wrong, but they traded-off that for the convenience (?) of TB3 / USB-C port harmonization. If you want the best of both worlds, then perhaps go third-party:

* https://www.engadget.com/2019/02/11/thundermag-magsafe-thunderbolt-3/

Re:magsafe

[Anonymous Coward]

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07H2YZK6V/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_api_i_a.-GCbBQESVRX

Re: magsafe

[Anonymous Coward]

"Here's one guess, they had a lot of problems with a lot of Magsafe power supplies"

Almost certainly not true. MagSafe was in almost every notebook they shipped for over a decade - tens of millions of units in total.

Your other ideas seem reasonable.

Re:magsafe

[Anonymous Coward]

Another guess, people complained that MagSafe wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Laptops got real light and MagSafe actually pulled laptops off tables. Make the magnet weaker and now the weight of the cable can pull it loose.

Interesting theory, I never thought about it that way.

Re:magsafe

[Anonymous Coward]

Magsafe is my number one.

Re: magsafe

[Anonymous Coward]

That's an interesting point. I use it in my lap occasionally, and although a bit of annoyance I would still prefer MagSafe to USB.
I hate the MacBook logo on new MacBooks - it is freakishly annoying and distracting.

Re: magsafe

[Anonymous Coward]

MacBook Pro should not be feather light in the first place. They need a large battery, usable ports, nice reliable keyboard, power. There are tons of shitty Air and nameless macbooks already.

Re:magsafe

[mjwx]

magsafe has saved my laptop from death countless dozens of times. unless they bring back magsafe i will only be buying used macbooks ... which also have good keyboards.

I've never had a "magsafe" and do you know how many laptops I've lost to standard power connectors?

None... Not a single one.

Do you know how?

1, I'm not a complete klutz who doesn't watch where they're going.
2. I have sufficient motor control that when I feel enough pressure to move a 2KG laptop on my body I can stop.
3. I actually place cables out of the way to begin with.

Re:magsafe

[Vadim Makarov]

Power over USB-C was one of the two good things in the last year update (the other good thing being lower processor power consumption). It now runs off any USB or USB-C charger (not only Apple's), including an airliner USB socket through a tiny adapter. The speed of charge varies upon the source wattage, of course.

A socket constantly falling off was my top annoyance with the previous model. Guess, I am NOT one of those people who keep the device sitting squarely on a desk. I hold it in all sorts of positions and move it around.

All the other design changes have either been a downgrade or no-improvement. Damn Apple, it's been 5 years since the last redesign, and you've produced such a disappointment.

Re:magsafe

[tzanger]

I have the USB A to micro/usbc/lightning version of this cable -- I fucking love these things. I didn't think they had a C version which worked with the macs though.

NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[jsepeta]

If Windows laptops can manage to include both USB type C and USB 3.x ports, a MacBook Pro should be able to do the same. My MacBook Pro looks ridiculous with 4 dongles hanging off it.

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[93 Escort Wagon]

I avoided this problem - and the keyboard problem - buy purchasing a 2015 MacBook Pro.

In 2018.

But in reality I have to admit all I did was punt the decision down the road, since there’s no way Ive won’t keep doubling down on the stupid design uber alles ethos. Must be even thinner! Must eliminate those unsightly ports!

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[blindseer]

Think of the person buying their first computer, or a second computer while keeping their first. These people will be buying cables and accessories for this computer. Why put old ports on a new computer? The only accessories that I can think of that don't come in USB-C versions are keyboards and mice, which are not needed all that often on a laptop anyway.

Tell me, what are you plugging in?

If it's a display then there are cables for USB-C to whatever port you will find on a new display. If you need a dongle for VGA then it's time to get a new display. I expect soon to see USB-C inputs on displays for power and video, and supporting DisplayPort and/or HDMI protocol on that port. If it's a device with a USB-B port then don't buy a dongle, buy the right cable. If it's got a captive cable, like a mouse or keyboard, then I can understand the need for a dongle. I have an optical drive with a captive cable, but I don't use this often.

If you are using four dongles regularly then I'm thinking you should have bought a dock. Docks with just Ethernet, one USB-C (often only for power) and a trio of USB-A ports are small and cheap.

Using four dongles just sounds like choosing poorly on laptop cables and/or accessories.

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[berj]

four dongles? Why the would you do that? What are you connecting? I've got *one* that has multiple USB-A, SD, HDMI and Ethernet.. I connect it less than 5% of the time I'm using my laptop. Most everything I connect now has direct USB-C connections.

But the idea that people need four (heck.. even two) dongles is ridiculous. I'm sure someone out there needs an RS232 serial port and a VGA port.. but they are going to have dongles pretty much no matter what laptop they buy. To get the normal selection of laptop ports absolutely doesn't require more than one dongle and I'd rather have all that extra crap not inside the laptop. I can plug those cables on whichever side of the laptop I want and leave them off for the vast majority of time I don't need them. Perfect.

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[serviscope_minor]

If it's a display then there are cables for USB-C to whatever port you will find on a new display.

So my choices are carry round a USB-C to HDMI dongle or preemptively rewire every conference centre I visit so they have USB-C cables not HDMI. Or I can buy a sensible laptop.

If it's a device with a USB-B port then don't buy a dongle, buy the right cable.

Right-o I'll just rewire all those devices with builtin cables to have USB-C cables (which I can't use with older laptpos)! Brilliant!

Or I can get a thinkpad which is faster, has more storage is lighter, has a nicer keyboard, better cooling, and is cheaper.

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[fluffernutter]

Why would I buy USB-C when exactly one device in my house has USB-C with the others all having normal USB? Then I need a dongle for everything else!

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[fluffernutter]

External graphics, mouse, keyboard, test device. 4 dongles.

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[berj]

That can be done with one adapter with all four ports.

There are bucketloads of single adapters that will handle all of this and more. They're small, light and cheap.

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[fluffernutter]

How many are approved by apple and guaranteed not to fry my laptop?

Re: NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[Anonymous Coward]

From Apple directly, does this count? https://www.apple.com/shop/product/HL9B2VC/A/belkin-usb-30-4-port-hub-usb-c-cable

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[Bigbutt]

Dongle for the Media cable. Gives me the HDMI, USB, and USB-C connections.

HDMI for external monitor. USB for the CD, and USB-C for the Apple keyboard.

Note that my MacBook 2013 with the HDMI port supports HDMI 2.0 on my monitor but the MacBook 2017 with the external Media adapter only supports HDMI 1.2 (basically not 2.0).

Power plug.

Dongle for the Ethernet cable (oddly my MacBook can't connect to my Plex servers wirelessly, only through a wired connection).

USB dongle for the USB thumb drive (for the occasional file copy from one system to another; aka sneakernet).

USB dongle for the USB external backup drive (4TB).

A couple of them are pretty much always needed regardless of if I'm at my desk or on the couch.

And I didn't think about a dock in part because Apple doesn't supply one. You have to get a third party one and until you mentioned it here, it wasn't even a consideration so I'll investigate that, thanks :)

[John]

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[Bigbutt]

Even the Apple external CD is a USB-B so a dongle is needed for that. And two of my cables are for Rocksmith and don't come in USB-C so at least two USB-B dongles for those.

[John]

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[Anonymous Coward]

I own a UBS-C to A 2.0 dongle, still wrapped but I can use it when I need one more port on the laptop (e.g. if move to use it with keyb and mouse). It only cost $1.

They're probably completely harmless, just a passive tap into the USB 2.0 lines to downgrade your USB 3.1 or TB3 port to USB 2.0.
If I could blow money right there I'd probably get a Mac Mini and downgrade the USB-C ports this way, and think how that would piss someone off somewhere on the internet.
If I wanted to get all fancy with a USB-C powered computer I bet I would go with one of those power supplies with USB port(s) on it. You can plug a Logitech mouse/keyboard wireless nub in there..

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[Cmdln Daco]

USB dongle for the USB thumb drive (for the occasional file copy from one system to another; aka sneakernet).

You're supposed to copy from one of your computers to another 'through the cloud' so that the contents can be scrutinized in case something bad might be in whatever you're copying. For your pr0tection.

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[Anonymous Coward]

If Windows laptops can manage to include both USB type C and USB 3.x ports, a MacBook Pro should be able to do the same. My MacBook Pro looks ridiculous with 4 dongles hanging off it.

You're going to have to scream louder to get your voice heard.

The executives standing on the other side of that fucking mountain of dongle revenue can't quite hear you.

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[Bigbutt]

For my internal stuff sure, but when copying from my work laptop to my personal stuff, I don't have that luxury (work blocks cloud type stuff).

[John]

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[squiggleslash]

Got to say, if MacBooks are so fragile that people are actually bothered about the manufacturer "approving" USB dongles, the situation is even worse than just a matter of plug compatibility.

Is it really that bad in the Apple eco-system now?

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[fluffernutter]

To be fair, I am properly being more cautious than most. I work for a small company that wanted an iPhone app and I am basically being entrusted with this laptop. I'm not prepared to hand it back to them with a USB-C port fried and explain that Apple refused to fix it.

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[Anonymous Coward]

If Windows laptops can manage to include both USB type C and USB 3.x ports, a MacBook Pro should be able to do the same. My MacBook Pro looks ridiculous with 4 dongles hanging off it.

Get a USB-C hub, that's what we do for our Dell laptops at work, it's not even about the dongles, why are you ok with four wires, plus power, hanging off a laptop? Very few people can plug two office monitors into a PC laptop without dongles anyway because we have dvi, display port, mini display port, hdmi, mini hdmi, and you never seem to have two of whatever is at the end of the monitor cable. A hub lets you move all the wires and dongles somewhere out of the way with a single cable to your laptop for power and everything.

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[Anonymous Coward]

Got to say, if MacBooks are so fragile that people are actually bothered about the manufacturer "approving" USB dongles, the situation is even worse than just a matter of plug compatibility.

Is it really that bad in the Apple eco-system now?

You can buy USB-C hubs designed for Macs, like color matched, at Walmart and Best Buy. Go take a peak next time you're truffling through the discount DVD bin.

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[hawk]

>If Windows laptops can manage to include both USB type C and USB 3.x ports,
> a MacBook Pro should be able to do the same.

Yeah. There's that block of unused room between the 5.25" floppy and the parallel port . . . :)

hawk

Re: NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[Anonymous Coward]

If you need a dongle for VGA then it's time to get a new display.

Apparently you've never had to present in a conference room on the road. I'll just tell the customer "it's time to get a new display" and leave. This is why Dell is still putting VGA connectors on (real) laptops in 2019

Re: NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[Anonymous Coward]

Only for the small price of $70 can you have the function that almost every laptop ships with. Yay!

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[berj]

Is it really that bad in the Apple eco-system now?

No. He's just making up stories in his head.

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[Anonymous Coward]

"which are not needed all that often on a laptop anyway."

You have no idea of what you speak.

Adding a keyboard and/or mouse is the #1 usability improvement for the device. It is the most common peripheral to be added to a laptop for exactly that reason.

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[tzanger]

mouse and keyboard are easily solved with bluetooth.

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[tzanger]

No, it's not really that bad. OP's just paranoid or demands colour-coordination for his dongles. Both are silly reasons.

Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES

[fluffernutter]

Except I bought the mouse and keyboard I like and they are usb.

Feedback after pressing the power-on button!

[Anonymous Coward]

One of my pet peeves is the lack of feedback after pressing the power-on-button when the macbook has been in hibernation after a low-battery shutdown.

You attach the power cord, press the "power-on" key in the top right, and then nothing happens for ten seconds - or at all!

In some instances, this is due to the fact that the device does not yet deem the battery charge high enough to start the boot process. In others, this is just a lenthy delay until ram has been restored.

What I would expect is an acoustic feedback, or a blinking led, that indicates the keypress was detected and the boot process has started.

I cannot imagine that it would be impossible for the management processor that boots the system to toggle a led - and if it is, apple should just spend 2 cents for a parallel open drain output for a LED, e.g. the Caps-Lock indicator that could blink to indicate the boot process has started!

In the old days, one of the distinguishing features of MacOs - or rather System X.Y - against Windows was meaningfull progress-bars whereever possible.

I recently purchased a new Macbook Air for a relative. The USB-C charger cable was flaky out of the box, and it took me a lot longer than neccessary to troubleshoot this because of the lack of a charging indicator LED. How stingy can you be on a 1500€ Laptop?

Re:Feedback after pressing the power-on button!

[Joce640k]

My favorite is the way there's no keyboard illumination until after you've typed in your password. Try typing "NrhUk328jds" in a darkened room in an input box that only shows **********.

Re:Feedback after pressing the power-on button!

[fluffernutter]

It's even more awesome when you need the power plugged into the external display module for that to work, but the laptop won't turn on unless the power is directly plugged into the laptop.

Re:Feedback after pressing the power-on button!

[fibonacci8]

Great, now I have to change my password.

Re:Feedback after pressing the power-on button!

[PetiePooo]

Great, now I have to change your password.

Fixed that for ya'...

I might get a good price for my late 2013 MBP

[mfearby]

I've always used mine in 'clamshell' mode with an external Kinesys ergo keyboard. My almost virginal MacBook Pro keyboard might actually be worth more than the laptop itself, LOL.

Re:I might get a good price for my late 2013 MBP

[Anonymous Coward]

Same. I've got a late 2013 MBP as well, and a Logitech K760 bluetooth keyboard it talks to means the actual keyboard has little use. I have no interest in upgrading to any of the later models of MacBook "Pro".

Start with the 2015 design

[Anonymous Coward]

Pretend everything since 2016 never happened.
The 2015 and prior design has everything going for it that people have been complaining about since the 2016 re-work.
- Plenty of ports
- MagSafe charging
- A reliable keyboard

Take the same 2015 design
- Update the ports, maybe even add a few
- Keep MagSafe
- Don't fuck with the keyboard, it was fine,did not have to be re-imagined and made worse
- Update the chassis for a thinner bezel design
- And of course update the guts
- Oh, and ditch that dumbass touchbar /rant over

But seriously Apple do that and I'll buy a Mac again.

Re:Start with the 2015 design

[fuzzyf]

This!

I got the 15" 2015 model fully specced and it's nice, but I will not be bying a new Macbook Pro as they are now.
No magsafe, no USB A and that useless touchbar.. ffs.
And the price? What are they thinking? Come on


The thing is. I don't really care if they "innovate" or not. I just want a good laptop. Good battery, good screen, good keyboard, good performance, good build quality. Throw in a SD card reader and USB A ports so I don't have to go and find that stupid dongle every time I need to connect something.
When I bought the 2015 model there was no other laptop out there that could do SSD above SATA speed, high res display, dedicated graphics and still be able to last for 10 hours if you just are writing some code. It was my first mac, so I didn't really think magsafe and touchpad would be that good, but they truly are.
The reasoning for them to remove Magsafe only make sense inside an Excel sheet before the eyes of an MBA.
Apple used to provide really good laptops for professionals. Now it seems they main target is bloggers.

Re:Start with the 2015 design

[finkployd]

This would win me back as well. I'd be willing to overlook the dumbing down (and let's be honest, basically abandonment) of OSX even.

MBP Never Again...

[cormandy]

I bought a late 2016 MBP - the one post-magsafe, all USB C and with the new butterfly keyboard. Love quickly turned to loathing. Although it wasnâ(TM)t the first MacBook I bought (4 over the years for my immediate family) it was the first I bought for myself after years of Wintel laptops, all ThinkPads (both Lenovo and IBM). Iâ(TM)ve experienced keyboard issues, most notably double-spacing. Keyboard already replaced once. Wake on sleep problems. Failed speaker. My gripes are as follows: - no magsafe. This is an issue for non-obvious reasons: the USB C port simply does not hold onto the charger cable as well which can often easily slip out causing the laptop to fall back to battery - the cost of repairability. The top case is a fusion of the keyboard, battery, speakers and some other bits so if any one part fails you have to replace them all at once at rediculous cost. Easily $400 if you need to buy a new keyboard - 16GB ram. Granted this may change - non-expandability. Cannot change ram or internal storage. - as above, the keyboard. Too sensitive, low travel, goddamn noisy (try typing in a meeting and everyone will be looking at you), susceptible to dust, expensive to repair - switching between apps on OSX for some bloody reason always brings up the wrong document, and not the last one I was working on when I have multiple docs open. Cannot stress how much this pisses me off! - hundreds of $$$ spent on dongles to replace missing ports: ethernet, HDMI, SVGA and USB - VMWare Fusion so I can use Visio and MS Project to get my job done Although Iâ(TM)m no fan of Windows my next laptop will again be a Wintel. I will miss the iMessage OSX app but this is about it. Lenovo (X1E) and Dell (XPS 15) have shown that you can do powerful, thin and light with expandibility and with ports people actually use.

Re:MBP Never Again...

[berj]

Hundreds of dollars on dongles? Come on.

Re: MBP Never Again...

[cormandy]

Sigh... Apple USB C vga multiport adapter: $69 USD Apple USB C ditial av multiport adapter: $69 USD Add on an ethernet adapter: $35 USD Usb c to usb 2 adapter... Anyways clearly hundreds of $$$. Thatâ(TM)s what I paid.

Re: MBP Never Again...

[berj]

Too late for you now.. but there are so many better (and cheaper) ways to do that.

There are piles and piles of multi port adapters that have USB-A, HDMI, and sometimes even ethernet.. all for much less than $100. If VGA is absolutely a must then you can just get an additional VGA adapter (note that this would be required regardless of which Macbook from the last decade you bought. I'm not even sure that *any* Macbook had a VGA connection...). If you needed to spend much more than $100 I'd be shocked.

Re: MBP Never Again...

[Anonymous Coward]

You shouldn't need any fucking dongles at all, period. But, you do, because the only port Tim Cook really cares about is a man's anus.

Re: MBP Never Again...

[fluffernutter]

And when you destroy your laptop and Apple tells you your dongles weren't "Apple approved"?

Re: MBP Never Again...

[berj]

Since we're just making up fantasies now: an angel will come down from the sky and fix it for free.

Re: MBP Never Again...

[fluffernutter]

Apple regularly reminds people to use Apple approved devices or they may damage the laptop.

Re: MBP Never Again...

[berj]

You've got a very active fantasy life.

Re: MBP Never Again...

[Anonymous Coward]

My car dealer regularly tells me the other mechanic in town might damage my car. But unless they can prove he did, they still have to honor the warranty.

Re: MBP Never Again...

[fluffernutter]

Well with a laptop this expensive I'm not taking the chance.

Re: MBP Never Again...

[Anonymous Coward]

It's the same thing as an inkjet printer manufacturer saying to only use their brand of ink, other inks are inferior and may damage the printer. It's a lie to keep you from purchasing from their competitors.
(Car analogy): Would you only buy a Ford-brand (or Ford-approved) beaded seat cover for your new Ford car? It's an accessory, as long as it follows the standards set forth (in this case, approximate seat size), it's all good. Ford (or Apple) would just want extra money from the accessory brand paying for the "approved" logo.

Re: MBP Never Again...

[thegarbz]

but there are so many better (and cheaper) ways to do that.

Well if your solution is to not buy Apple products then you can have just avoided the situation all together by not buying the original damn Apple product that requires you to bolt on a lot of non-Apple products to get basic functionality. .

Re: MBP Never Again...

[Anonymous Coward]

Third party graphics adapters won't work on recent MacBook Pros. Basically, there's some sort of chip in the first party ones to "ensure compatibility". Third party ones don't have the chip, so their output is terrible.

Related Louis Rossmann video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NYVjIjBMx6o

Re: MBP Never Again...

[Anonymous Coward]

Except he is 100% right. You used unapproved devices or cables and Apple will void the warranty. It's in their legalese.

Re: MBP Never Again...

[berj]

one thing is "a lot" to you?

Re: MBP Never Again...

[angel'o'sphere]

Hu?

Why would Apple tell you such nonsense? After all if a dongle kills your laptop the dongle vendor is liable.

Re: MBP Never Again...

[angel'o'sphere]

No they don't ... would be illegal in most jurisdictions anyway.

Re: MBP Never Again...

[Anonymous Coward]

"After all if a dongle kills your laptop the dongle vendor is liable."

And good luck taking proceedings against the vendor. I know how it is "supposed" to work: the point of sale vendor is responsible, but good luck actually holding them accountable.

Re: MBP Never Again...

[Anonymous Coward]

Do you think $100 to replace all the ports that should have already been built into your very expensive computer is reasonable?

Prioritising vomiting

[Anonymous Coward]

*vomit*

last macbook for me

[Anonymous Coward]

my previous macbooks were bombproof.

the current one has a crappy keyboad that woks intermittantly, dongle is a pain in the arse, and it was really expensive.

I don't want to get a windows laptop, but i don't want to get ripped off by Apple again.

It's over man!

[Anonymous Coward]

Time to give up and move on. The Mac is dead,

Re:It's over man!

[_merlin]

Exactly. This line made me laugh:

...if you're committed to the Mac and every single Mac laptop thatâ(TM)s sold uses the exact same keyboard, there's nowhere to run.

If you're "committed to the Mac" you have a problem. I used Macs all through the '90s, I weathered the PowerPC transition, Carbonised my applications, ran Mac OS X as my primary OS starting with Public Beta, and made the transition to Intel. But it was never a religion - it was because at the time it was the best option for me. I didn't use Macs exclusively - I had Sun workstations and Windows PCs as well - but the Mac was my "preferred desktop" so to speak.

After 2003 or so, there was just less and less to be happy about. The hardware quality hit a high in 2001, and hasn't been the same since. The 2001 iBook was really solid and reliable, with great battery life. I have a "Snakebite" dual G4 that still works fine. But from 10.4 "Tiger" onwards, every release of OS X was buggy and broke something. I got a first-generation MacBook so I had something to work with for porting to Intel, but it was a terrible machine. The cooling was very inadequate, the GMA950 GPU stole half the RAM bandwidth, it would kernel panic regularly if an external display was connected, the top case cracked, and the optical drive became misaligned with the slot in the case.

My last Mac was a 2010 17" MacBook Pro with the 1920*1200 matte display, running 10.6 "Snow Leopard". That was the last tolerable version of OS X, and even then there were annoyances. Xcode had been dumbed down to the point where I'd rather just use vim and work at the command line. The machine was compromised as well. The mechanical click in the trackpad wasn't coupled to the microswitch, so it would click mechanically without registering. Adjusting this required taking the battery out and messing with tri-wing screws. You can't have it running while adjusting it, so it's trial and error. The unibody MacBook Pros were never as tough as the previous models with the magnesium allow chassis. They'd bend, and the bottom panels were really thin and weak. At least that model had a battery that could be replaced easily enough with just some screwdrivers, unlike the newer ones with glued-in batteries.

It had got to the point where the only thing keeping me on the Mac was the annoyance of moving data and getting equivalent applications set up. Eventually that machine developed interrupt controller issues, and I looked at my options. I just wasn't interested in anything Apple was offering. I'd already switched to a Dell Precision T3610 as my main desktop, and I got a Dell Latitude as my new notebook. Sure, there are things I dislike about it, but it's a better machine. Everything's user-replaceable, including the keyboard and LCD. Bigger battery, still has built-in Ethernet, SD card reader, and even VGA out.

If you're "committed to the Mac" you're throwing your money away so that Apple can maintain its insane profit margins. You're getting worse products every time, with fewer upgrade options, less poorer serviceability, and less durability. Apple is not committed to you.

Re:It's over man!

[fluffernutter]

IF you're an iphone developer, you're "committed to the mac"

Re:It's over man!

[_merlin]

Yeah, I'm kinda lucky that the line-of-business applications I develop are deployed on Linux, the open source projects I contribute to are portable across Windows/Linux/Mac, and for my photography etc. the Adobe stuff runs on Windows as well as Mac. I don't need (or want) to develop Mac or iPhone software at this point.

WTF, who are these people?

[Anonymous Coward]

So I go to check out this Macbook list out of curiosity, I find it is a podcast, which is to say, idiots blithering about technology. Let me say, I am biased against podcasts because you have to mine them for information, which is hard. A text based piece of information is optimized for this task. But what is worse is that these guys obviously use computers regularly, but they don't really understand. One is arguing how Chrome on Mac is horrible because "everything is in the wrong place". That's just user preference, what you are accustomed to. It has nothing to do with whether the browser actually does what it is supposed to. And then they say that it is "even worse than Slack". What? Slack isn't a browser, wtf??? I quit listening long, long before they got to anything about a Macbook feature list because it's a podcast and they are stupid.

Some people have commented, "Why do you need to make a Macbook wish list, why not just use a different machine. Stupid fanbois!". I understand why someone might say that. However, as a Mac user and a software developer, I can tell you that Mac has straddled the commercial PC and Unix machine world very well. It has become the Unix OS that Linux was supposed to be by now. I have terminals, I can run shell scripts, I am dealing with Unix permissions, I can close the lid on the machine and it goes to sleep, open it up, it wakes up without any problems, etc. etc. And that's the OS. As far as hardware and until Tim Cook, the Macbook was reaching a state of perfection. Light, long battery life, chic, top hardware specs, replaceable components, Magsafe, could handle falls and a bit of water without falling apart, and lots of ports. It cost a lot of money, but it was worth it because of all of the above. Then Jobs died. Tim Cook took over after that, and he has taken away ports, made the machine fragile, made the machine not upgradeable/serviceable, not upgraded the hardware components for several years, etc., etc, while increasing the price! The obvious point is that he is trying to maximize profit. There is hope that he will stop this and a prioritized wishlist would be the first step. I am not hopeful. Cook knows that the MacOS is the selling point. Until Windows or Linux can offer the same kind of experience, he will be able to keep taking things away while increasing the price. Microsoft has been toying lately with opening Windows up and making it more Unix-like, but they have a long way to go. Not to mention their development process of just writing new code or implementing APIs according to which application is running has got to go. And Linux needs to have a team like the kernel team focused solely on fixing the GUI portion of the OS. We probably need a hardware vendor (like Apple) who has a vested interest in the user experience on their machines. Redhat, Ubuntu, etc. make their money from the server side, so that is where they spend their money. Until the market responds, Tim Cook will continue to keep us living in 2012.

Re:WTF, who are these people?

[Anonymous Coward]

It is going to be interesting what will happen to Apple.

Right now the only people who need to use macOS are the developers making software for the mac eco system.
Since other people don't need macO, developers don't need it for making macOS apps anymore, so it is only for iphone/ipad development.

Apple either needs to make laptops people and developers want, or start making a development toolkit for windows or linux.

I am a developer who has an macOS app that I sell. My next product will be cross platform, I am writing my own high performance GUI toolkit on top of Vulkan (qt is way to slow), and I will try to build my product for mac using cmake and using a cloud-build machine (on storyboards or .nib files for me). Really the only issue is signing the binaries before distribution.

Re:WTF, who are these people?

[Cmdln Daco]

MacOS is evolving into the expensive proprietary hardware developers had to use to develop Nintendo games.

Physical function keys.

[devslash0]

I don't care about the touch bar. I need my function keys to work. Period.

Re: Physical function keys.

[Anonymous Coward]

You can switch it to always show function keys. I wonder why no one ever mentions this.

Re: Physical function keys.

[Anonymous Coward]

Are you a fucking retard? Following your stupid n1gger logic - let's just switch physical keys to a sensor panel, no fucking big difference. Kill yourself stupid bitch.

um what now? a working keyboard a priority?

[Escogido]

"you have to chose between this cool new feature or this broken thing fixed" is a false dichotomy. there is no reason apple wouldn't be able to accomplish things that are not mutually competing for power consumption, physical space, or cost. there is a point in making priority lists but fixing what shouldn't be broken in the first place don't belong there.

Re:um what now? a working keyboard a priority?

[Anonymous Coward]

apple cares more about selling new product than about actual usability, this is why design always trumps functionality

Re:um what now? a working keyboard a priority?

[Escogido]

of course they care about selling new product, and usability certainly has been a huge part of their brand during jobs times. not so much today, but they still are ahead of their competitors on many points.

and, I don't quite agree that design "always" trumps functionality. what often happens is that given a functionality set, investing in design is more profitable than investing in developing said feature set further. it is especially true since functionality and design require different skillsets, and most functionality-focused teams don't really have the usability-focused mindset. this will correct itself with time, but not in the short term.

Magsafe please

[blindseer]

I like the choice to go with USB-C/Thunderbolt. I understand why Apple did this.

People complained about the loss of the SDXC slot but I think I used it just once or twice in the years I had my old laptop. The lack of HDMI port and replacing it with video on USB-C doesn't bother me much either, especially since HDMI doesn't (or at least didn't at the time) support the higher resolutions that Thunderbolt or DisplayPort gives. Cables from USB-C to HDMI/DisplayPort/whatever don't seem to cost all that much more than HDMI or DisplayPort cables. I didn't much like the expense of a Thunderbolt 2 adapter but, again, this is expected with a switch to something faster. People seem most vocal about the loss of the USB-A ports, and that does suck a bit at first but buying a trio of adapters is about $25. Complaints about a lack of an Ethernet port just don't compute for me. Ethernet ports have been MIA on laptops for a while, or so it seems. USB to Ethernet adapters are cheap and small if you really really need them, with WiFi being nearly ubiquitous now I find few cases where they are needed. I've seen the poorly implemented attempts to preserve the Ethernet port and still keeping the computer thin, and I'd much rather it just not be there.

What there is no proper adapter for is the MagSafe port. Sure, there are cables that approximate the MagSafe but then there is a little "nub" hanging off the computer. Removing this nub can mean it getting lost, either inside the laptop bag or just lost permanently. I haven't lost mine yet but I can see that happening. With most other USB-C uses you are tethered to a table or desk. People want a laptop on their lap, and to get it on one's lap and off again means moving it. Often in ways that might tangle the power cord. MagSafe means such tangles won't damage the computer.

I want MagSafe back. Don't lose the power by USB-C, keep that because that means retaining compatibility with third party chargers. I've seen other laptop makers have USB-C charging while keeping whatever legacy power port they had. Apple should be able to figure this out. I had convinced myself that removing MagSafe was a good idea but I changed my mind. I want it back now. Maybe it doesn't need to be the same MagSafe they used before, but that would be nice. I don't know if MagSafe maxed out at 85 watts but that was the largest at the time. Maybe get a version that could handle 100 watts like USB-C, or more.

Re:Magsafe please

[fluffernutter]

How much do I need to spend on a monitor to get one with "video over USB-C". I didn't see any when I was shopping, but granted I was sorting by price and getting the cheapest 24 inch I could find.

Re:Magsafe please

[Anonymous Coward]

I'm using a cheap 2017 laptop with Ethernet port. You'll find it on "gaming laptops" as well. Plenty Ethernet remains on laptops just one step thickness above "ultrabook".
I don't use it often, but one day I troubleshooted/maintained a laptop and just plugged a network cable in rather than bother finding and entering the wifi code. So : instant Internet connection, under a second and Internet was a good 10x to 20x faster than on 802.11n. Yes that may happens sometimes. In my country at least every wired Internet connection costs the same whether it's dsl, fiber or cable so the cheapest Internet is 1000 Mbps if that's available, and 802.11n is the cheapest wifi.
It was fun to download bloated software and drivers in seconds.

Re:Magsafe please

[fuzzyf]

Buying adapters is not about the cost. It's about having that f... adapter available whenever you need it.
I hate having to go and fetch and adapter when I just want to get stuff done.
Did you even remember to bring it with you?

HDMI is pretty much the default for hooking up to any projector/screen, and it's going to stay like that for at least the lifetime of the next macbook pro line.

Re:Magsafe please

[blindseer]

Maybe you aren't looking hard enough. This article was easy enough to find: https://www.imore.com/best-usb...

Perhaps better option for now is just buying the right cable.

USB Type C to HDMI 3.1 Cable: https://www.monoprice.com/prod...

USB Type C to DisplayPort 3.1 Cable: https://www.monoprice.com/prod...

I know these cables cost more than those without USB-C but that's the price you pay to get a smaller port on your portable computing device. If they used the full sized desktop connector then the cables would be cheaper but then you are now carrying a larger device for that larger port.

If you got a proper USB-C display then you often also get what is effectively a laptop dock in the display, where it supplies power to charge your laptop and additional ports for things like mouse, keyboard, and Ethernet.

USB-C to replace the old HDMI and mini-DisplayPort ports was a good choice in my opinion. The USB-C ports are smaller and allow for other benefits such as power to be drawn from the display for charging. The only competition I see in this space is the even rarer SuperMHL connector.

Re:Magsafe please

[samwichse]

https://www.amazon.com/Plugabl...

https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d...

$17-18?

Not a fan of the USB-C only BS, but this one isn't too bad.

Definitely the keyboard.

[Static]

I would never buy a Mac for myself for a number of reasons, but my work-issued laptop is an MBP. I'm on my second or third. The keyboard has _always_ sucked - even the 2012/3 models we started with. I noticed my colleagues were slowing their typing down because the keyboard was shit even compared to the cheap and cheerful Dell keyboards we had prior. A triumph of form over function.

There is a reason I use an external keyboard as much as possible. A Happy Hacking Keyboard to be honest, but even Microsoft's TypeCover keyboard is considerably better than that on Mac Books.

Keyboard dongle

[Njovich]

This is why a lot of nice-to-have-features, like SD card slots, have to fall way down the hierarchy of needs. Any feature that can be rectified with an add-on adapter falls immediately to the bottom of the list. You're stuck with a laptop keyboard forever

If only there was a way to connect a keyboard to your laptop using a cable or even using fancy wireless technology.

Re:Keyboard dongle

[TeknoHog]

If only there was a way to connect a keyboard to your laptop using a cable or even using fancy wireless technology.

At home, my laptop is docked and I use a real mechanical keyboard. It's wider, thicker and heavier than the laptop itself. So obviously I'm not going to lug the keyboard around when I'm on the road. If I was going to do that, I wouldn't need a laptop to begin with. A laptop needs to be usable without any external dongles, that's kind of the point of having one.

Alternative brands

[enriquevagu]

When there are so many issues that you have to prioritize them, maybe it's time to start looking at other brands that fit your needs.

Re:Alternative brands

[Anonymous Coward]

Prisoners of Apple Walled Garden cannot leave without losing all they have invested to it (software, use routines etc.) and the pain of re-learning everything on Windows or Linux-based system is a non-starter for someone who has gobbled up the kool aid for years.

Re:Alternative brands

[thegarbz]

When there are so many issues that you have to prioritize them, maybe it's time to start looking at other brands that fit your needs.

When you make a judgement based on a number rather than a severity or impact of sets of problems maybe it's time to not be in charge of any product selection.

Re:Alternative brands

[Anonymous Coward]

the apple snobs just don't like to admit that all of their hardware (inclusive, generally, and always) is at least a year behind current tech, and overpriced by 2-3x market. It's all just for status-symbol and an anti-MS fanboi stance. If they were realistic, they would admit that really just like the mickey-mouse OS, and that in reality, the hardware is junk inside and just has a pretty case and screen attached to it. All the macs can burn in hell as far as I'm concerned, especially the laptops and so called "pro" gear. A xeon processor in a desktop? Good luck with those benchmarks vs a mainstream $400 i7 running at 4 or 4.5ghz, which will mop the floor with whatever video rendering or other work you're doing on your precious imac pro. Don't get me started on your 7 year old ancient "mac pro". Mac fanbois deserve to get crapped on continually by apple. You put up with it, so you deserve it. Someday you'll realize you're the Palm Pilot and the rest of the world moved on 10 years ago.

I Can Get Everything I Ask For

[Greyfox]

Dell's I9 laptop is fast, has an amazing video card, great monitor, great keyboard and plenty of ports on it. I can get it pre-loaded with Linux, 64 GB of RAM and a 2 TB SSD. I'm trying to think of a downside, can't really. I've never been a huge fan of Dell but if you look at their selection of machines past the Dell "My First Laptop" your employer issued you, some of their hardware is actually pretty good. Maybe having an Apple Logo on a laptop somehow makes it impossible to deliver a package like that, but I can definitely get everything I ask for in a Laptop.

Re:I Can Get Everything I Ask For

[Entropius]

Typing this on my XPS 15 -- a fantastic machine for a fraction of the price of Macs.

Re:I Can Get Everything I Ask For

[thomaswoob]

There are a couple of solid alternatives - hardware wise - but Linux is as far from OSX as is Windows. Even though Apple has done little to make it really better the last couple of years, neither M$ or Linux have managed to come even near it in terms of overall usefulness for developers. Plus there are still many software packages that simply dont exist for Linux and that help people to work on their computer.

Re:I Can Get Everything I Ask For

[angel'o'sphere]

If it can run macOS in a VM it would definitely be a great alternative.

Mod Parent Up!

[jddj]

Seriously, this is so right.

If Apple wants to dick with the 2015 ports, ok, switch Thunderbolt 2 to USB-C. Leave the rest alone for God's sake.

My 2017 13" MacBook pro is the first Mac I've bought which I found quite disappointing (and I've been a Mac owner since 1994).

I'm much happier with my $400 Chromebook, which, while it has the USB-C-only problem too, has a real ESCAPE key, a micro-SD slot, a touchscreen (which I don't really use, but still...), screen folds flat 180Â and 360Â, great backlit keyboard, 2FA sign-in, still made of aluminum, but maybe 1/3 the weight, plus, if someone steals it, I can buy another and all my stuff comes right back.

Oh yeah, and it was 1/3 of the price.

Yes, of course it's not MacOS, but after living with ChromeOS, using it daily for a couple years, I'm going to the Mac for less and less stuff.

Photoshop is still and always the killer app for a Mac, though some online editors are starting to pick up on basic image editing. So I guess I'm stuck with this rich boat anchor for a while longer. If I had a way to get off it, I would. I can only dread what Apple's next round of "courage" will bring.

fix the Mac by going back in time a few years.

[Anonymous Coward]

My pre touch bar macbook pro is my perfect work laptop. My 2014 Macbook air is my perfect personal laptop. Most of the updates I've seen from Apple have made their machines worse - silly little things like getting rid of mag-safe, and bigger things like ruining the keyboard. I actually have so much of a worry about what will happen when my Macbook Air dies that I'm keeping an eye out for a 2017 Air to keep in a cupboard just in case. I really don't want the new ones.

Folks will say buy Windows, but OSX works for me. Almost perfectly. Far far more tuned to me than Windows, and without the clunkiness of Linux. So yeah, fix the Macs? Go back in time.

Of course, I can feel the walled garden closing in, so there's always a chance that OSX will die for me too.

Re:fix the Mac by going back in time a few years.

[fluffernutter]

Mag-safe only worked if you were using your laptop on a desk. Otherwise it would fall out at random times. And I don't buy a laptop to use at a desk.

Re:fix the Mac by going back in time a few years.

[angel'o'sphere]

I use my laptops 99.99999% of my time on the desk.

That I use it in bed or actually on my lap is an extremely rare occurrence.

Re:fix the Mac by going back in time a few years.

[fluffernutter]

Then why not buy a desktop?

Re:fix the Mac by going back in time a few years.

[Anonymous Coward]

umm, that may be your experience, but it is not mine. Bed, sofa, desk, standing desk - no bother at all.

And having watched two of my wife's laptops go to ruin because of worn out power sockets, the mag safe doesn't seem to suffer the same ruinous stresses. If USB-C is as fragile as USB, then I really don't like it becoming the critical port of my laptop.

Apple fans are weird

[Anonymous Coward]

Hey Apple idiots, stop whining about how terrible Mac's are, and just stop buying their crap and maybe Apple will get a clue. Instead of dreaming of the day when the MacBook will be everything it should be. Since when has the MacBook been any sort of proper notebook for doing work on? Not for a while now. Just wait until Apple switches to ARM CPU's and then maybe you'll want some cheese with that whine.

Apple

[Anonymous Coward]

"Stuff for rubes." - Tim Apple

Wish list

[tarokejihi]

I have a 2015 MacBook Pro 13" that I like, however it doesn't compare with my previous 2010 MBP13. And in term of keyboard the 2015 is very disappointing while the best one IMHO was the 2008 MacBook Black. So my wish list would be :

• - 2008 MB Black keyboard with physical function keys
• - Mag safe (that was innovation)
• - Replaceable battery
• - Replaceable SSD
• - Upgradable RAM up to 128Go
• - Mini Display port
• - Mate display as an option
• - 3 to 4 USB-A ports on the same side
• - IR Remote (that was neat)
• - Aluminium Unibody (it is good)

"almost a given"

[Mozai]

How is "parts that don't break before the warranty expires" _almost_ a given?

Re:"almost a given"

[drinkypoo]

How is "parts that don't break before the warranty expires" _almost_ a given?

Courage? Thinking differently?

A few items not improved

[speedlaw]

I want the magsafe back. That alone saved me a few thousand new laptops. A USB port might be nice, and not only a C port...dongles ? Really ? I bought an Air again just because of that.

the article is crap

[Anonymous Coward]

how about this gem from TFA: "As the ATP hosts pointed out, there’s a possibility that this rumored 16-inch MacBook Pro might actually have a display capable of displaying true native Retina resolution, rather than the scaled default found on all Retina MacBooks"

The author is claiming MacBooks can not display Retina resolution. lol.
That was enough of the article for me...

Yes, but all about the OS

[Texmaize]

The elephant in the room is that Mac OS is still the best game in town. MS is still less useable and sells your personal information, as has been documented on slashdot many times. You can argue that Linux is far superior and offers more control, which may be true. However, if you are being honest it has moments of critical incompatibility that makes getting stuff done in the real world problematic.

So, I will give you Tim Apple has been doing whatever he can to mess up the OS and make the once wonderful products less good. But the number one feature on this list is the OS. And that is why we are hoping so much for a non-garbage laptop.

Thicker! It all starts with that.

[LaughingElk]

I'm typing this my 2015 MacBook Pro that I've been nursing along. I have a long list of things Apple could do to get me to buy a new MacBook, but it all starts with one thing:

Make it thicker!

Once you've done that, now there's room for
-A real keyboard with real key travel
-USB 3 ports
-An ethernet port
-Several kinds of video ports
-A really, really big battery
-A heat management system that doesn't have to throttle the processor
-A reliable hinge that doesn't pinch the video cables
-Great speakers
-Magsafe!

Please make this happen, Apple. I never asked you for a laptop that was so thin I could shave with it.

Allright... here's my Macbook Pro Wishlist:

[El Jynx]

DO change:
- go back one keyboard generation
- bring back the f'in 17" model, and a 20" model for huge people like me (and gamers / designers)
- create a decent desktop docking system, with MODULAR port expansions so people can pick what they need (SD card, old Firewire, MIDI, whatever). You're the geniuses, rethink the workplace.
- a few normal USB ports. I know USB-C is the way to go, but I share the dislike of extra dongles when I'm traveling. Seriously? Find some other way to force the ecosystem.
- Why not just make the left or the right side modular as well, so I can swap in a bar with USB ports for a bar with SD slots and Firewire for when I go photo editing?

Do NOT change (or, at least, check carefully with public opinion first {yeah, I know, wishful thinking}):
- the hardware / software integration. It's awesome.
- aesthetics. They've always looked gorgeous, keep it up.
- the great Displays. Love the resolution.

Rethink:
- the keyboard.
- Mac as a gaming platform. I've got a Steam account full of games that prove that it's quite possible. It just requires some PROPER FRICKIN' DRIVERS and some dedication/commitment from Apple.

Who really uses the keyboard?

[AlanObject]

A lot of bellyaching about keyboards here.

I am typing this on a Apple bluetooth keyboard paired to my MacPro-2015. I would say 90% of my heavy-typing work is done at my desk where the keyboard is. The laptop itself is closed and driving an external display which also provides me a wired mouse.

The only time when I even open the laptop is when I take it somewhere. And then I use the keyboard that still looks new after four years. All laptops that are lightweight have keyboard problems eventually don't fool yourself. Anyone who pounds on one at their desk by default is just asking for it.

Re:Who really uses the keyboard?

[Anonymous Coward]

Plenty of people. I use the MBP display and then have en external display directly above. My 2012 15" Retina MBP is a joy to use. My 2017 is a piece of crap. One has a good keyboard, one has the worst keyboard I have ever used. I don't see why I should try and shoehorn in an external keyboard and mouse (which forces your hand away from the keyboard) because Apple prioritises form over function. Been using Apple Pro laptops since PowerBook G4. I won't be having another one unless they radically change direction on both hardware and software.

The OS Chimera

[AlanObject]

As usual I see the back-and-forth between Windows/Linux/MacOS. Everything said has been said before many many times.

Including this.

I have MacOS but I also have Windows in VM. Some applications just don't have a MacOS version like Solidworks, The Citrix Xen VM manager and a number of tools like that and accounting packages.

I have lots of Linux systems around so I don't need a Linux VM but if I did I could have one in a few minutes.

In this day and age crusading for one favored OS over another is just retarded. So is arguing that it is too hard to switch.

But.

MacOS hosts Windows and Linux and BSD as guest VMs far better than any other OS hosts its rivals. And by "better" I mean not only do the over-boundary features work but it is much easier to install and maintain.

So if you are a serious multi-system developer you don't need MacOS but you would prefer it if you care about productivity.

Add official eGPU support for MacBook Pro 2012

[bussdriver]

EXACTLY!
You have to sell it as a new revolutionary DONGLE. Apple is obsessed with the stupid things. The "super dongle" which snaps on the side and puts back all the ports the idiots removed.

Parent is right... but:
2012 is the last decent MacBook Pro. I've given up on them getting back any retired competent employees. I am fine with Thunderbolt 1 eGPU just wish it wasn't a mess to get it working.

+ REPLACABLE SSD (they can have defects, always getting larger)
+ REPLACABLE RAM (2012 last one)
+ 2nd SSD slot. My 2012 DVD-R is replaced with a cheap HD used as a 2nd backup. slower cheaper larger is fine. I realize they'll never go back to spinning rust storage.

Trackpad, keyboard, low reflection display, ports,

[clay_buster]

Trackpad, keyboard, low reflection display, ports, magsafe. MacBooks used to be top or have good options for these areas.

Upgrade just the mainboard of the old Apple Air .

[Anonymous Coward]

The best Apple keyboard is the one used in the later MacBook Air notebooks. Besides the reliability the newer keyboards have a bigger issue, the tactile feedback of a keypress occurs before the keypress is actually registered. Try this on a new MacBook, open an editor, slowly and softly press the G key till you feel it click, see that the G character is not on the screen. Unconsciously users of these keyboards type harder to make sure every press is registered. This makes them loud and my colleagues complain about getting RSI from these keyboards.

I wish Apple would re-release the MacBook 11, with just a faster CPU and more memory. You don't need Retina on the road and for such a small screen, I use an external screen on my desk.

If someone makes a replacement board which fits in the MacBook 11 shell that runs hackintosh I would pay more for that than the price of a new MacBook Pro.

Infected by the USB virus

[bussdriver]

Apple finally needs to get vaccinated...
Hopefully the disease over at USB 3,4 ...Intel with Thunderbolt... doesn't spread any further. Obviously, Apple got it when they were in bed with Intel on Thunderbolt 3.

MagSafe plugs didn't last... the cables used a stupid type of plastic too. but making $$ in replacements wasn't enough to counter the brain damaging USB virus.

YES MagSafe maxed at 85 Watts. Apple CRIPPLED all their laptops so you run your battery down doing serious work. Their LIE is heat related but if you stick your laptop out in the winter so the fan never comes on, it will still draw over 85W and start pulling from the battery until it goes dead! Recent OS updates kept the machine from dying so it just cycles down to half speed like it was overheating. Not a PRO device if you can not do PRO workloads on it. (think rendering overnight) plus you can't replace the battery you are wearing down with extra cycles (anytime you peg 100% it draws from battery for the missing power.)

Re:Infected by the USB virus

[blindseer]

Not a PRO device if you can not do PRO workloads on it. (think rendering overnight)

Overnight rendering on a laptop? You are doing it wrong.

Re:Infected by the USB virus

[bussdriver]

If I rendered stuff for a living, then I'd not use a laptop for it. We have general purpose computers so we can do anything on them we feel like.

You buy "pro" gear so you can use it 100% not be stuck with a tiny power supply that has to borrow from your battery every time you run the CPU at 100%.... adding to battery cycle count... which BTW, are not officially a user replaceable item. The thermals are a false problem; adding a heat sink fixed it.

Yet again, blind-seer... I see you assuming confidently despite being blind... such a fitting handle.

It's the software, stupid

[Anonymous Coward]

If we want laptops with better hardware, then our choice is Microsoft laptops.

And that's no choice at all.

Nobody in their right mind wants to use Microsoft's crappy, buggy, spyware software. Windows just keeps getting worse, and worse, and worse.

That's why we're begging for better Mac hardware. Because then we can avoid horrible Microsoft software.

Forever.

Sign Apple F'd up bigtime

[bussdriver]

When people are making LISTS and rank ordering them to fix what used to be the best. Windows users used to buy Mac then run windows simply because the laptop was so good. not anymore.

Real Innovation:

[bussdriver]

The bottom metal plate they've always had, make it do something:

1) super thin unibody like now. no battery. just a few ports. like now.

2) cheap: battery IS the metal plate on the bottom. glued to the plate. Essentially, the battery's bottom cover is the metal bottom of the laptop. Simple cable plug connects it. Keeps DIY people happy and they can continue their current behavior.

3) medium: metal plate on bottom has side ridges so it makes laptop THICKER. add more battery.

4) pro: same as above but side ridge has all the needed missing ports. Added SSD too* MAGSAFE PORT. (added weight = magnet now works + it's damaged more if it weighs more.)

5) fancy: pro + more ports + thicker for more battery.

6) 3rd party products:

- hardened in-field add-ons with wrap around plastic/rubber to protect the whole bottom and sides of the laptop.
- docking solutions; bottom plates designed to dock
- GPU + Fans + even more SSD... 3rd party power... crazy big batteries... 12V car power... eGPU is nice but not portable. People USED to be able to lift 8lb laptops , some of us still can.

* All models: MB has a simple internal PCI connector (as they used to do in various forms forever... to get wifi or cards or bluetooth, etc.) This allows for any kind of bottom plate circuitry.

Current MacBook Pro hardware is... lacking

[Chelloveck]

I've been using MacBook Pros for a decade now. I got one of the new ones a few weeks ago. My experience...

• I actually like the feel of the new keyboard. The key travel is a slight bit too shallow for my taste, but it feels crisp. I haven't had it long enough to know if it's reliable over time.
• The arrow keys blow. The previous machines had an inverted-T pattern with all the keys half-height. You could easily find them by feel. The new one has the left/right keys full height, and the up/down keys half-height between them. It's almost impossible to differentiate them by touch. Yeah, yeah, I know, real programmers don't use the arrow keys...
• The touchbar is a major WTF. It would have been an innocuous addition to the function keys. It's a horrible replacement for them. No tactile feedback and the need to look down from the screen make it difficult to use. Worse, things that were a single keypress (volume control, expose, brightness) are now multiple presses and waiting for the damned thing to finish its transition animations between them. Who is this designed for? What workflow could this possibly improve?
• I'm constantly brushing against the oversized trackpad with my palms. It does a reasonable job detecting this and ignoring false touches, but if my left palm is near it and I use my right hand to try to use the mouse the trackpad will often decide that both are unintentional. And on previous models I'd do a click-drag by moving the pointer with my index finger, then clicking and holding with my thumb while I continue to drag with my index finger. Can't do that any more, the click-hold is apparently triggering the palm rejection.
• Lack of magsafe. Magsafe saved me so many times. I can't wait until I damage a USB cable or the port itself because somebody trips over my power cord.
• All USB-C. Okay, maybe it is the future, but it's *NOT* the present. How about a couple legacy ports so I don't have to lug around an entire bag of adapters?

I've been very happy with Apple's hardware for a long time, and I like the OS better than any of the alternatives for daily desktop use. I gave them the benefit of the doubt this time around and I'm not happy with how it worked out. My next machine won't be a Mac unless these issues get fixed.

Moving On

[Anonymous Coward]

I have owned Macbook pros for my last two laptops. My current machine is a 2012 MBP and still going fine BUT I cannot expect it to go for much longer>

So I have been looking at the laptop market and I would love to buy a new MBP, I enjoy MacOS and obviously the two I have owned have both reached the 7 year mark which reflects great value as well as a quality system.

Three issues though concern me:
1) The keyboard - too many reports of problems for too long
2) The lack of ports - I want to carry one device and not a heap of dongles/plugs to connect
3) It's 2019 and I at least want a touchscreen if not a convertible ( Yes an ipad pro would be great for my needs; it just has to run MacOS not IOS which is too limited for a work device)

I watch with hope that Apple can deal with all these issues. The longer I watch the more I think they are not going to change any of this. So sadly after 14 years it look like I am heading back to windows.

I am not whinging or complaining simply explaining why after so long I am moving to another companies product.

Infrared Drowning System for Coffee spills

[Anonymous Coward]

Made in Singapore -- another tax haven for Cook and Co.

Touch Bar?

[Anonymous Coward]

I don't think the stupid touch bar will be on many people's lists.

I do

[Anonymous Coward]

But then real is such a subjective term. You appear to want it to mean what you think it should, not what it actually means.

What a bunch of Debbie Downers

[Anonymous Coward]

If Apple listened to Slashdot we'd still be using 40MB SCSI.

Magsafe

[DatbeDank]

KEYBOARD FOLLOWED BY MAGSAFE!

Yes it's old and yes it's not USB-C. But it's proven tech that works. A standard that came to define Apple.

Dropping it was an absolute mistake. The Surface products all have equivalent magsafe knock offs that work very well. For the first time, Apple is regressing and resting on its laurels.

Bring it back, admit the mistake, and move on from this singular love of silly USB C ports.

I'm weird

[Anonymous Coward]

I like the new style keyboards... going back to typing on older keyboards feels weird... it feels like it's a lot more work to type fast as the keys travel further and don't have the initial resistance to depression.

I do admit that the keys tend to clog, but that's because I'm a filthy pig that sheds a lot of hair and skin and who picks his nose, but I've found that if a key sticks it will still work, just need to press harder on it and that it can be easily unclogged by holding it upside down and blowing on the key, or if I have a can of air handy a quick squirt is all you need.

My number one grievance with late model MBPs isn't the loss of Magsafe or lack of ports other than USB-C - it's the touch bar. I bought the base non-touch bar version because I hate the touch bar with a passion. I want my physical ESC key god damn it! User-upgradeable RAM and storage is also a must.

I don't care about MagSafe now that I've been using this for a couple of years. Majority of my time using this thing is at a desk plugged into an external USB-C display that has a wired keyboard and mouse and ethernet plugged into it. I like only having the USB-C cable to handle that and power as compared to the older Cinema Display's that had two plugs.

So, my list of priorities:

1. No Touch Bar
2. Upgradeable RAM
3. Upgradeable Storage
4. Higher Capacity Battery
5. Faster CPU

mac's are lame. Proof published..

[Anonymous Coward]

so, with the price of a mac book being fucking out of control, with the elitist crap bundled, and the STAGGERING depreciation associated. You would think that Getting a Keyboard right would be a no brainer.
I think its further proof that even Apple can't resist hating on themselves, and like sheep they still tolerate it. Why?
It's touted as a premium productivity product and marketed as such, that said is it really unrealistic to expect that shit works, and works for a reasonable length of time, at that price point?

It seems obvious that the overlords ARE NOT LISTENING, AND AS SHEEP, THEY STILL FOLLOW.

Lame, like this publication has become.

Re:mac's are lame. Proof published..

[Anonymous Coward]

so, with the price of a mac book being fucking out of control, with the elitist crap bundled, and the STAGGERING depreciation associated. You would think that Getting a Keyboard right would be a no brainer.
I think its further proof that even Apple can't resist hating on themselves, and like sheep they still tolerate it. Why?
It's touted as a premium productivity product and marketed as such, that said is it really unrealistic to expect that shit works, and works for a reasonable length of time, at that price point?

It seems obvious that the overlords ARE NOT LISTENING, AND AS SHEEP, THEY STILL FOLLOW.

Lame, like this publication has become.

Agreed,
Thats why I and others in my field have STOPPED ORDERING THEM for the infrastructure. There seems to be ZERO value in purchasing such a high priced piece of hardware. People want Mac Functionality, download A mac Emulator run it on a reasonably priced Windows device, and Wow you have just saved a significant amount of budget which could be deployed to other REAL needs in the infrastructure, and decreased time spent with: Apple care, compatibility issues, depreciation, Operating system/Hardware Lockout, and having to use specific "dongles" at a premium price for general functionality. Lets Face it. Windows devices can survive on their own infrastructure without the assistance of other technologies. Linux devices are pretty much in the same boat not requiring a divergent piece of technology to exist. Can the same be said about similar Apple offerings, at competing price-points?
Can your budget take the "Mac/apple" Hit?

It should be priortizing the need of....

[Anonymous Coward]

Fuck the needs of the Device. What about the needs of the environment that it's used in?

Not to sound like a total dick but..Its not a Child..
It's a device we Purchase for 3 reasons: Productivity, Gaming, and OOoooh It's APPLE shinny(sheep).

Therefore, is it unreasonable not to have to care for it, or to care for it at the same level as it's "bretheren" PC's?

This argument is fucking Stupid, The Correct choice should be obvious.

Dear Prudence...

[Anonymous Coward]

My boyfriend is an asshole, he spends my money, he's ungrateful, he stays out until all hours and refuses to tell me where he was. He never cleans up and he has other girlfriends on the side.

Yet I love him and I know he'll change. Here's a list of the things he's going to begin improving Real Soon Now...