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Prioritizing the MacBook Hierarchy of Needs (sixcolors.com)

Jason Snell, writing for Six Colors: This week on the Accidental Tech Podcast (ATP), John Siracusa floated the concept of a MacBook Hierarchy of Needs, a priority list of features for the next time Apple redesigns the MacBook line, as is rumored to happen later this year. It's a fun thought experiment, because it requires you to rank your wish list of laptop features. That's important, because if I've learned anything in this wacky world of ours, it's that you can never get everything you ask for, so you've got to prioritize.

The ATP hosts all made a "good keyboard" their top priority, an idea that would've been surprising a few years ago but now is almost a given. Yes, of course, Apple laptops need to be fast and reliable and have great displays and good battery life, but the past few years' worth of MacBooks have made a lot of people realize the truth: a bad/unreliable laptop keyboard isn't something you can really work around if you're a laptop user. This is why a lot of nice-to-have-features, like SD card slots, have to fall way down the hierarchy of needs. Any feature that can be rectified with an add-on adapter falls immediately to the bottom of the list. You're stuck with a laptop keyboard forever, and if you're committed to the Mac and every single Mac laptop that's sold uses the exact same keyboard, there's nowhere to run.

133 of 240 comments (clear)

  1. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by BladeMelbourne · · Score: 1, Troll

    If they want to pay extra for crap - it's digital Darwinisiam.

    Apple hasn't been an innovative leader for a decade. It's best to look elsewhere.

  2. magsafe by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    magsafe has saved my laptop from death countless dozens of times. unless they bring back magsafe i will only be buying used macbooks ... which also have good keyboards.

    1. Re:magsafe by Pezbian · · Score: 1

      Why'd they get rid of magsafe in the first place? Seems like a keen idea, what's the catch?

      Don't have to buy another one if it doesn't get pulled onto the floor?

      --
      In a world of the blind, the one-eyed man is king--and the two-eyed man is a heretic.
    2. Re:magsafe by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Why'd they get rid of magsafe in the first place? Seems like a keen idea, what's the catch?

      Here's one guess, they had a lot of problems with a lot of Magsafe power supplies. Mostly the cords were failing on them and they had to replace a lot of them. They likely just thought they'd do better with using USB-C than trying to get MagSafe to work right.

      Another guess, people complained that MagSafe wasn't all it was cracked up to be. Laptops got real light and MagSafe actually pulled laptops off tables. Make the magnet weaker and now the weight of the cable can pull it loose.

      One more guess, people didn't like the idea of being locked in to Apple only power cables when other manufacturers were now switching to the industry standard USB-C.

      As I recall Dell and Lenovo allow for the use of their old power cables as well as USB-C to power their laptops, especially on the higher end. I'd like to see Apple do this, MagSafe and USB-C charging on new laptops.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    3. Re:magsafe by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      You couldn't even use magsafe on your lap in bad, the cord would keep coming out. Of course I have the same problem now with USB-C.. Apple just doesn't care about people using a laptop anywhere other than at a desk.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    4. Re:magsafe by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      I've tripped over Thinkpad cords a few times. Laptop/port/cord were built sturdy enough to keep going without having to release.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    5. Re:magsafe by mjwx · · Score: 1

      magsafe has saved my laptop from death countless dozens of times. unless they bring back magsafe i will only be buying used macbooks ... which also have good keyboards.

      I've never had a "magsafe" and do you know how many laptops I've lost to standard power connectors?

      None... Not a single one.

      Do you know how?

      1, I'm not a complete klutz who doesn't watch where they're going.
      2. I have sufficient motor control that when I feel enough pressure to move a 2KG laptop on my body I can stop.
      3. I actually place cables out of the way to begin with.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    6. Re:magsafe by Vadim+Makarov · · Score: 1

      Power over USB-C was one of the two good things in the last year update (the other good thing being lower processor power consumption). It now runs off any USB or USB-C charger (not only Apple's), including an airliner USB socket through a tiny adapter. The speed of charge varies upon the source wattage, of course.

      A socket constantly falling off was my top annoyance with the previous model. Guess, I am NOT one of those people who keep the device sitting squarely on a desk. I hold it in all sorts of positions and move it around.

      All the other design changes have either been a downgrade or no-improvement. Damn Apple, it's been 5 years since the last redesign, and you've produced such a disappointment.

      --
      17779 eligible voters in a district, 17779 'vote' as one. This is Russia.
    7. Re:magsafe by tzanger · · Score: 1

      I have the USB A to micro/usbc/lightning version of this cable -- I fucking love these things. I didn't think they had a C version which worked with the macs though.

  3. NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES by jsepeta · · Score: 4, Interesting

    If Windows laptops can manage to include both USB type C and USB 3.x ports, a MacBook Pro should be able to do the same. My MacBook Pro looks ridiculous with 4 dongles hanging off it.

    --
    Remember kids, if you're not paying for the service, YOU ARE THE PRODUCT THAT IS BEING SOLD.
    1. Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES by 93+Escort+Wagon · · Score: 5, Insightful

      I avoided this problem - and the keyboard problem - buy purchasing a 2015 MacBook Pro.

      In 2018.

      But in reality I have to admit all I did was punt the decision down the road, since there’s no way Ive won’t keep doubling down on the stupid design uber alles ethos. Must be even thinner! Must eliminate those unsightly ports!

      --
      #DeleteChrome
    2. Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Think of the person buying their first computer, or a second computer while keeping their first. These people will be buying cables and accessories for this computer. Why put old ports on a new computer? The only accessories that I can think of that don't come in USB-C versions are keyboards and mice, which are not needed all that often on a laptop anyway.

      Tell me, what are you plugging in?

      If it's a display then there are cables for USB-C to whatever port you will find on a new display. If you need a dongle for VGA then it's time to get a new display. I expect soon to see USB-C inputs on displays for power and video, and supporting DisplayPort and/or HDMI protocol on that port. If it's a device with a USB-B port then don't buy a dongle, buy the right cable. If it's got a captive cable, like a mouse or keyboard, then I can understand the need for a dongle. I have an optical drive with a captive cable, but I don't use this often.

      If you are using four dongles regularly then I'm thinking you should have bought a dock. Docks with just Ethernet, one USB-C (often only for power) and a trio of USB-A ports are small and cheap.

      Using four dongles just sounds like choosing poorly on laptop cables and/or accessories.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    3. Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES by berj · · Score: 2

      four dongles? Why the would you do that? What are you connecting? I've got *one* that has multiple USB-A, SD, HDMI and Ethernet.. I connect it less than 5% of the time I'm using my laptop. Most everything I connect now has direct USB-C connections.

      But the idea that people need four (heck.. even two) dongles is ridiculous. I'm sure someone out there needs an RS232 serial port and a VGA port.. but they are going to have dongles pretty much no matter what laptop they buy. To get the normal selection of laptop ports absolutely doesn't require more than one dongle and I'd rather have all that extra crap not inside the laptop. I can plug those cables on whichever side of the laptop I want and leave them off for the vast majority of time I don't need them. Perfect.

    4. Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES by serviscope_minor · · Score: 1

      If it's a display then there are cables for USB-C to whatever port you will find on a new display.

      So my choices are carry round a USB-C to HDMI dongle or preemptively rewire every conference centre I visit so they have USB-C cables not HDMI. Or I can buy a sensible laptop.

      If it's a device with a USB-B port then don't buy a dongle, buy the right cable.

      Right-o I'll just rewire all those devices with builtin cables to have USB-C cables (which I can't use with older laptpos)! Brilliant!

      Or I can get a thinkpad which is faster, has more storage is lighter, has a nicer keyboard, better cooling, and is cheaper.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    5. Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Why would I buy USB-C when exactly one device in my house has USB-C with the others all having normal USB? Then I need a dongle for everything else!

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    6. Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      External graphics, mouse, keyboard, test device. 4 dongles.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    7. Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES by berj · · Score: 1

      That can be done with one adapter with all four ports.

      There are bucketloads of single adapters that will handle all of this and more. They're small, light and cheap.

    8. Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      How many are approved by apple and guaranteed not to fry my laptop?

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    9. Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES by Bigbutt · · Score: 1

      Dongle for the Media cable. Gives me the HDMI, USB, and USB-C connections.

      HDMI for external monitor. USB for the CD, and USB-C for the Apple keyboard.

      Note that my MacBook 2013 with the HDMI port supports HDMI 2.0 on my monitor but the MacBook 2017 with the external Media adapter only supports HDMI 1.2 (basically not 2.0).

      Power plug.

      Dongle for the Ethernet cable (oddly my MacBook can't connect to my Plex servers wirelessly, only through a wired connection).

      USB dongle for the USB thumb drive (for the occasional file copy from one system to another; aka sneakernet).

      USB dongle for the USB external backup drive (4TB).

      A couple of them are pretty much always needed regardless of if I'm at my desk or on the couch.

      And I didn't think about a dock in part because Apple doesn't supply one. You have to get a third party one and until you mentioned it here, it wasn't even a consideration so I'll investigate that, thanks :)

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    10. Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES by Bigbutt · · Score: 1

      Even the Apple external CD is a USB-B so a dongle is needed for that. And two of my cables are for Rocksmith and don't come in USB-C so at least two USB-B dongles for those.

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    11. Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

      USB dongle for the USB thumb drive (for the occasional file copy from one system to another; aka sneakernet).

      You're supposed to copy from one of your computers to another 'through the cloud' so that the contents can be scrutinized in case something bad might be in whatever you're copying. For your pr0tection.

    12. Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES by Bigbutt · · Score: 1

      For my internal stuff sure, but when copying from my work laptop to my personal stuff, I don't have that luxury (work blocks cloud type stuff).

      [John]

      --
      Shit better not happen!
    13. Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES by squiggleslash · · Score: 1

      Got to say, if MacBooks are so fragile that people are actually bothered about the manufacturer "approving" USB dongles, the situation is even worse than just a matter of plug compatibility.

      Is it really that bad in the Apple eco-system now?

      --
      You are not alone. This is not normal. None of this is normal.
    14. Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      To be fair, I am properly being more cautious than most. I work for a small company that wanted an iPhone app and I am basically being entrusted with this laptop. I'm not prepared to hand it back to them with a USB-C port fried and explain that Apple refused to fix it.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    15. Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES by hawk · · Score: 1

      >If Windows laptops can manage to include both USB type C and USB 3.x ports,
      > a MacBook Pro should be able to do the same.

      Yeah. There's that block of unused room between the 5.25" floppy and the parallel port . . . :)

      hawk

    16. Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES by berj · · Score: 2

      Is it really that bad in the Apple eco-system now?

      No. He's just making up stories in his head.

    17. Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES by tzanger · · Score: 1

      mouse and keyboard are easily solved with bluetooth.

    18. Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES by tzanger · · Score: 1

      No, it's not really that bad. OP's just paranoid or demands colour-coordination for his dongles. Both are silly reasons.

    19. Re:NO MORE FUCKING DONGLES by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      Except I bought the mouse and keyboard I like and they are usb.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  4. I might get a good price for my late 2013 MBP by mfearby · · Score: 1

    I've always used mine in 'clamshell' mode with an external Kinesys ergo keyboard. My almost virginal MacBook Pro keyboard might actually be worth more than the laptop itself, LOL.

  5. Start with the 2015 design by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Pretend everything since 2016 never happened.
    The 2015 and prior design has everything going for it that people have been complaining about since the 2016 re-work.
    - Plenty of ports
    - MagSafe charging
    - A reliable keyboard

    Take the same 2015 design
    - Update the ports, maybe even add a few
    - Keep MagSafe
    - Don't fuck with the keyboard, it was fine,did not have to be re-imagined and made worse
    - Update the chassis for a thinner bezel design
    - And of course update the guts
    - Oh, and ditch that dumbass touchbar /rant over

    But seriously Apple do that and I'll buy a Mac again.

    1. Re:Start with the 2015 design by fuzzyf · · Score: 1

      This!

      I got the 15" 2015 model fully specced and it's nice, but I will not be bying a new Macbook Pro as they are now.
      No magsafe, no USB A and that useless touchbar.. ffs.
      And the price? What are they thinking? Come on


      The thing is. I don't really care if they "innovate" or not. I just want a good laptop. Good battery, good screen, good keyboard, good performance, good build quality. Throw in a SD card reader and USB A ports so I don't have to go and find that stupid dongle every time I need to connect something.
      When I bought the 2015 model there was no other laptop out there that could do SSD above SATA speed, high res display, dedicated graphics and still be able to last for 10 hours if you just are writing some code. It was my first mac, so I didn't really think magsafe and touchpad would be that good, but they truly are.
      The reasoning for them to remove Magsafe only make sense inside an Excel sheet before the eyes of an MBA.
      Apple used to provide really good laptops for professionals. Now it seems they main target is bloggers.

    2. Re:Start with the 2015 design by finkployd · · Score: 1

      This would win me back as well. I'd be willing to overlook the dumbing down (and let's be honest, basically abandonment) of OSX even.

  6. MBP Never Again... by cormandy · · Score: 4, Interesting

    I bought a late 2016 MBP - the one post-magsafe, all USB C and with the new butterfly keyboard. Love quickly turned to loathing. Although it wasnâ(TM)t the first MacBook I bought (4 over the years for my immediate family) it was the first I bought for myself after years of Wintel laptops, all ThinkPads (both Lenovo and IBM). Iâ(TM)ve experienced keyboard issues, most notably double-spacing. Keyboard already replaced once. Wake on sleep problems. Failed speaker. My gripes are as follows: - no magsafe. This is an issue for non-obvious reasons: the USB C port simply does not hold onto the charger cable as well which can often easily slip out causing the laptop to fall back to battery - the cost of repairability. The top case is a fusion of the keyboard, battery, speakers and some other bits so if any one part fails you have to replace them all at once at rediculous cost. Easily $400 if you need to buy a new keyboard - 16GB ram. Granted this may change - non-expandability. Cannot change ram or internal storage. - as above, the keyboard. Too sensitive, low travel, goddamn noisy (try typing in a meeting and everyone will be looking at you), susceptible to dust, expensive to repair - switching between apps on OSX for some bloody reason always brings up the wrong document, and not the last one I was working on when I have multiple docs open. Cannot stress how much this pisses me off! - hundreds of $$$ spent on dongles to replace missing ports: ethernet, HDMI, SVGA and USB - VMWare Fusion so I can use Visio and MS Project to get my job done Although Iâ(TM)m no fan of Windows my next laptop will again be a Wintel. I will miss the iMessage OSX app but this is about it. Lenovo (X1E) and Dell (XPS 15) have shown that you can do powerful, thin and light with expandibility and with ports people actually use.

    1. Re:MBP Never Again... by berj · · Score: 1

      Hundreds of dollars on dongles? Come on.

    2. Re: MBP Never Again... by cormandy · · Score: 2

      Sigh... Apple USB C vga multiport adapter: $69 USD Apple USB C ditial av multiport adapter: $69 USD Add on an ethernet adapter: $35 USD Usb c to usb 2 adapter... Anyways clearly hundreds of $$$. Thatâ(TM)s what I paid.

    3. Re: MBP Never Again... by berj · · Score: 1

      Too late for you now.. but there are so many better (and cheaper) ways to do that.

      There are piles and piles of multi port adapters that have USB-A, HDMI, and sometimes even ethernet.. all for much less than $100. If VGA is absolutely a must then you can just get an additional VGA adapter (note that this would be required regardless of which Macbook from the last decade you bought. I'm not even sure that *any* Macbook had a VGA connection...). If you needed to spend much more than $100 I'd be shocked.

    4. Re: MBP Never Again... by berj · · Score: 1

      Since we're just making up fantasies now: an angel will come down from the sky and fix it for free.

    5. Re: MBP Never Again... by fluffernutter · · Score: 1, Informative

      Apple regularly reminds people to use Apple approved devices or they may damage the laptop.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    6. Re: MBP Never Again... by berj · · Score: 1

      You've got a very active fantasy life.

    7. Re: MBP Never Again... by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      but there are so many better (and cheaper) ways to do that.

      Well if your solution is to not buy Apple products then you can have just avoided the situation all together by not buying the original damn Apple product that requires you to bolt on a lot of non-Apple products to get basic functionality. .

    8. Re: MBP Never Again... by berj · · Score: 1

      one thing is "a lot" to you?

    9. Re: MBP Never Again... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Hu?

      Why would Apple tell you such nonsense? After all if a dongle kills your laptop the dongle vendor is liable.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    10. Re: MBP Never Again... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      No they don't ... would be illegal in most jurisdictions anyway.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  7. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by hackertourist · · Score: 5, Insightful

    Some people accept whatever crappy tool they can find, even if that causes them tons of aggravation down the line. Others realize it's worth investing in top-quality tools. Apple's products used to be top-quality tools, and can be again if the company quit fucking around.

    The effort required to turn Apple laptops into top-quality tools is far lower than that required to turn a Windows laptop into a top-quality tool. That's why we don't switch.

  8. Physical function keys. by devslash0 · · Score: 2

    I don't care about the touch bar. I need my function keys to work. Period.

    1. Re: Physical function keys. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You can switch it to always show function keys. I wonder why no one ever mentions this.

  9. um what now? a working keyboard a priority? by Escogido · · Score: 1

    "you have to chose between this cool new feature or this broken thing fixed" is a false dichotomy. there is no reason apple wouldn't be able to accomplish things that are not mutually competing for power consumption, physical space, or cost. there is a point in making priority lists but fixing what shouldn't be broken in the first place don't belong there.

    1. Re:um what now? a working keyboard a priority? by Escogido · · Score: 1

      of course they care about selling new product, and usability certainly has been a huge part of their brand during jobs times. not so much today, but they still are ahead of their competitors on many points.

      and, I don't quite agree that design "always" trumps functionality. what often happens is that given a functionality set, investing in design is more profitable than investing in developing said feature set further. it is especially true since functionality and design require different skillsets, and most functionality-focused teams don't really have the usability-focused mindset. this will correct itself with time, but not in the short term.

  10. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by Chrontius · · Score: 3, Insightful

    I’m shopping for a Unix laptop that runs MS Office. Got a buying guide I can work from?

  11. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by goosesensor · · Score: 2, Insightful

    You're glossing over a very key point: macOS. As hard as it may be for you to understand, your average computer user, even intelligent people who do real work, usually can't easily up and switch to a new OS and stay productive. Yes Apple makes switching away harder with their ecosystem lock-in, but still, changing primary OSs is a large task for most people.

  12. Magsafe please by blindseer · · Score: 1

    I like the choice to go with USB-C/Thunderbolt. I understand why Apple did this.

    People complained about the loss of the SDXC slot but I think I used it just once or twice in the years I had my old laptop. The lack of HDMI port and replacing it with video on USB-C doesn't bother me much either, especially since HDMI doesn't (or at least didn't at the time) support the higher resolutions that Thunderbolt or DisplayPort gives. Cables from USB-C to HDMI/DisplayPort/whatever don't seem to cost all that much more than HDMI or DisplayPort cables. I didn't much like the expense of a Thunderbolt 2 adapter but, again, this is expected with a switch to something faster. People seem most vocal about the loss of the USB-A ports, and that does suck a bit at first but buying a trio of adapters is about $25. Complaints about a lack of an Ethernet port just don't compute for me. Ethernet ports have been MIA on laptops for a while, or so it seems. USB to Ethernet adapters are cheap and small if you really really need them, with WiFi being nearly ubiquitous now I find few cases where they are needed. I've seen the poorly implemented attempts to preserve the Ethernet port and still keeping the computer thin, and I'd much rather it just not be there.

    What there is no proper adapter for is the MagSafe port. Sure, there are cables that approximate the MagSafe but then there is a little "nub" hanging off the computer. Removing this nub can mean it getting lost, either inside the laptop bag or just lost permanently. I haven't lost mine yet but I can see that happening. With most other USB-C uses you are tethered to a table or desk. People want a laptop on their lap, and to get it on one's lap and off again means moving it. Often in ways that might tangle the power cord. MagSafe means such tangles won't damage the computer.

    I want MagSafe back. Don't lose the power by USB-C, keep that because that means retaining compatibility with third party chargers. I've seen other laptop makers have USB-C charging while keeping whatever legacy power port they had. Apple should be able to figure this out. I had convinced myself that removing MagSafe was a good idea but I changed my mind. I want it back now. Maybe it doesn't need to be the same MagSafe they used before, but that would be nice. I don't know if MagSafe maxed out at 85 watts but that was the largest at the time. Maybe get a version that could handle 100 watts like USB-C, or more.

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    1. Re:Magsafe please by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

      How much do I need to spend on a monitor to get one with "video over USB-C". I didn't see any when I was shopping, but granted I was sorting by price and getting the cheapest 24 inch I could find.

      --
      Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
    2. Re:Magsafe please by fuzzyf · · Score: 1

      Buying adapters is not about the cost. It's about having that f... adapter available whenever you need it.
      I hate having to go and fetch and adapter when I just want to get stuff done.
      Did you even remember to bring it with you?

      HDMI is pretty much the default for hooking up to any projector/screen, and it's going to stay like that for at least the lifetime of the next macbook pro line.

    3. Re:Magsafe please by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Maybe you aren't looking hard enough. This article was easy enough to find: https://www.imore.com/best-usb...

      Perhaps better option for now is just buying the right cable.

      USB Type C to HDMI 3.1 Cable: https://www.monoprice.com/prod...

      USB Type C to DisplayPort 3.1 Cable: https://www.monoprice.com/prod...

      I know these cables cost more than those without USB-C but that's the price you pay to get a smaller port on your portable computing device. If they used the full sized desktop connector then the cables would be cheaper but then you are now carrying a larger device for that larger port.

      If you got a proper USB-C display then you often also get what is effectively a laptop dock in the display, where it supplies power to charge your laptop and additional ports for things like mouse, keyboard, and Ethernet.

      USB-C to replace the old HDMI and mini-DisplayPort ports was a good choice in my opinion. The USB-C ports are smaller and allow for other benefits such as power to be drawn from the display for charging. The only competition I see in this space is the even rarer SuperMHL connector.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    4. Re:Magsafe please by samwichse · · Score: 1

      https://www.amazon.com/Plugabl...

      https://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d...

      $17-18?

      Not a fan of the USB-C only BS, but this one isn't too bad.

  13. Definitely the keyboard. by Static · · Score: 1

    I would never buy a Mac for myself for a number of reasons, but my work-issued laptop is an MBP. I'm on my second or third. The keyboard has _always_ sucked - even the 2012/3 models we started with. I noticed my colleagues were slowing their typing down because the keyboard was shit even compared to the cheap and cheerful Dell keyboards we had prior. A triumph of form over function.

    There is a reason I use an external keyboard as much as possible. A Happy Hacking Keyboard to be honest, but even Microsoft's TypeCover keyboard is considerably better than that on Mac Books.

  14. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by blindseer · · Score: 1

    I took this "MacBook hierarchy of needs" thought as a more general wish list for a laptop. I don't believe it's as much about Apple laptops specifically but shopping for a laptop generally.

    Leave the fanboys out of this. What is your wish list on a laptop? Now, hand that wish list to a number of laptop manufacturers and see how many will grant your wishes. Maybe it's Apple, maybe it's not.

    It's fine to think that you can just go somewhere else but, what if nobody makes a laptop that fits your hierarchy of needs?

    --
    I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
  15. Keyboard dongle by Njovich · · Score: 1

    This is why a lot of nice-to-have-features, like SD card slots, have to fall way down the hierarchy of needs. Any feature that can be rectified with an add-on adapter falls immediately to the bottom of the list. You're stuck with a laptop keyboard forever

    If only there was a way to connect a keyboard to your laptop using a cable or even using fancy wireless technology.

    1. Re:Keyboard dongle by TeknoHog · · Score: 2

      If only there was a way to connect a keyboard to your laptop using a cable or even using fancy wireless technology.

      At home, my laptop is docked and I use a real mechanical keyboard. It's wider, thicker and heavier than the laptop itself. So obviously I'm not going to lug the keyboard around when I'm on the road. If I was going to do that, I wouldn't need a laptop to begin with. A laptop needs to be usable without any external dongles, that's kind of the point of having one.

      --
      Escher was the first MC and Giger invented the HR department.
  16. Alternative brands by enriquevagu · · Score: 4, Insightful

    When there are so many issues that you have to prioritize them, maybe it's time to start looking at other brands that fit your needs.

    1. Re:Alternative brands by thegarbz · · Score: 2

      When there are so many issues that you have to prioritize them, maybe it's time to start looking at other brands that fit your needs.

      When you make a judgement based on a number rather than a severity or impact of sets of problems maybe it's time to not be in charge of any product selection.

  17. Re:It's over man! by _merlin · · Score: 1

    Exactly. This line made me laugh:

    ...if you're committed to the Mac and every single Mac laptop thatâ(TM)s sold uses the exact same keyboard, there's nowhere to run.

    If you're "committed to the Mac" you have a problem. I used Macs all through the '90s, I weathered the PowerPC transition, Carbonised my applications, ran Mac OS X as my primary OS starting with Public Beta, and made the transition to Intel. But it was never a religion - it was because at the time it was the best option for me. I didn't use Macs exclusively - I had Sun workstations and Windows PCs as well - but the Mac was my "preferred desktop" so to speak.

    After 2003 or so, there was just less and less to be happy about. The hardware quality hit a high in 2001, and hasn't been the same since. The 2001 iBook was really solid and reliable, with great battery life. I have a "Snakebite" dual G4 that still works fine. But from 10.4 "Tiger" onwards, every release of OS X was buggy and broke something. I got a first-generation MacBook so I had something to work with for porting to Intel, but it was a terrible machine. The cooling was very inadequate, the GMA950 GPU stole half the RAM bandwidth, it would kernel panic regularly if an external display was connected, the top case cracked, and the optical drive became misaligned with the slot in the case.

    My last Mac was a 2010 17" MacBook Pro with the 1920*1200 matte display, running 10.6 "Snow Leopard". That was the last tolerable version of OS X, and even then there were annoyances. Xcode had been dumbed down to the point where I'd rather just use vim and work at the command line. The machine was compromised as well. The mechanical click in the trackpad wasn't coupled to the microswitch, so it would click mechanically without registering. Adjusting this required taking the battery out and messing with tri-wing screws. You can't have it running while adjusting it, so it's trial and error. The unibody MacBook Pros were never as tough as the previous models with the magnesium allow chassis. They'd bend, and the bottom panels were really thin and weak. At least that model had a battery that could be replaced easily enough with just some screwdrivers, unlike the newer ones with glued-in batteries.

    It had got to the point where the only thing keeping me on the Mac was the annoyance of moving data and getting equivalent applications set up. Eventually that machine developed interrupt controller issues, and I looked at my options. I just wasn't interested in anything Apple was offering. I'd already switched to a Dell Precision T3610 as my main desktop, and I got a Dell Latitude as my new notebook. Sure, there are things I dislike about it, but it's a better machine. Everything's user-replaceable, including the keyboard and LCD. Bigger battery, still has built-in Ethernet, SD card reader, and even VGA out.

    If you're "committed to the Mac" you're throwing your money away so that Apple can maintain its insane profit margins. You're getting worse products every time, with fewer upgrade options, less poorer serviceability, and less durability. Apple is not committed to you.

  18. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    As hard as it may be for you to understand, your average computer user, even intelligent people who do real work, usually can't easily up and switch to a new OS and stay productive.

    Sure they can. It's only people like you holding them back by telling them it might be difficult.

    How's this for a though: Any effort they put in will be rewarded tenfold by being able to choose between dozens of keyboards/screens/etc in the future.

    --
    No sig today...
  19. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    Add to this a "screen where I can see what's on it and not just a reflection of my face and every light and brightly lit object in a 100 yard radius".

    --
    No sig today...
  20. Re:Feedback after pressing the power-on button! by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    My favorite is the way there's no keyboard illumination until after you've typed in your password. Try typing "NrhUk328jds" in a darkened room in an input box that only shows **********.

    --
    No sig today...
  21. I Can Get Everything I Ask For by Greyfox · · Score: 1

    Dell's I9 laptop is fast, has an amazing video card, great monitor, great keyboard and plenty of ports on it. I can get it pre-loaded with Linux, 64 GB of RAM and a 2 TB SSD. I'm trying to think of a downside, can't really. I've never been a huge fan of Dell but if you look at their selection of machines past the Dell "My First Laptop" your employer issued you, some of their hardware is actually pretty good. Maybe having an Apple Logo on a laptop somehow makes it impossible to deliver a package like that, but I can definitely get everything I ask for in a Laptop.

    --

    I'm trying to teach myself to set people on fire with my mind... Is it hot in here?

    1. Re:I Can Get Everything I Ask For by Entropius · · Score: 1

      Typing this on my XPS 15 -- a fantastic machine for a fraction of the price of Macs.

    2. Re:I Can Get Everything I Ask For by thomaswoob · · Score: 1

      There are a couple of solid alternatives - hardware wise - but Linux is as far from OSX as is Windows. Even though Apple has done little to make it really better the last couple of years, neither M$ or Linux have managed to come even near it in terms of overall usefulness for developers. Plus there are still many software packages that simply dont exist for Linux and that help people to work on their computer.

    3. Re:I Can Get Everything I Ask For by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      If it can run macOS in a VM it would definitely be a great alternative.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  22. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by mrwireless · · Score: 1

    I tried to switch, but there's simply nothing as good as Keynote on Windows or Linux.

    I looked at all the options:
    - Hackintoshes are too much work and unstable with upgrades.
    - Fulltime virtual machines.. not really an option either.

    After Apple released the new Macbook Air.. I decided to buy the 2017 Macbook Air, precisely for its keyboard. Not so much for reliability, but because I wanted to have some key travel.

  23. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Insightful

    Why don't you just do what normal people do? If the product is crap, buy a different one rather than writing love letters about it.

    Multiple reasons:

    a) Vendor lockin. Switching from a Lenovo machine to a Dell machine both running Windows 10 with a slightly different clicky feel on they keyboard and a slightly different graphics card is orders of magnitude different than moving from an Apple *ecosystem* to a Windows / Linux one. Note that word ecosystem. You're not just changing laptops. You're affecting your other fixed devices, your portable devices, you're affecting your software, your existing files, you're changing the way of working, potentially the services you (or worse, your customers) use.

    b) Because the product isn't crap, it just has a list of minor annoyances that prevent it from being perfect. So what device do you switch to? I'm no Apple fan but I can give a non-Apple example: I don't like that the Surface Pro only has 1 USB port. What should I do? Switch to a Lenovo Miix with it's horrible keyboard, inaccurate pen and poor quality kickstand? Get the HP Spectre X2, a device which my father has returned under warranty twice?

    Apple fanbois really are a different sort of person.

    Actually they are taking a completely thought out human approach to their predicament. Try to be less judgy.

  24. Mod Parent Up! by jddj · · Score: 1

    Seriously, this is so right.

    If Apple wants to dick with the 2015 ports, ok, switch Thunderbolt 2 to USB-C. Leave the rest alone for God's sake.

    My 2017 13" MacBook pro is the first Mac I've bought which I found quite disappointing (and I've been a Mac owner since 1994).

    I'm much happier with my $400 Chromebook, which, while it has the USB-C-only problem too, has a real ESCAPE key, a micro-SD slot, a touchscreen (which I don't really use, but still...), screen folds flat 180Â and 360Â, great backlit keyboard, 2FA sign-in, still made of aluminum, but maybe 1/3 the weight, plus, if someone steals it, I can buy another and all my stuff comes right back.

    Oh yeah, and it was 1/3 of the price.

    Yes, of course it's not MacOS, but after living with ChromeOS, using it daily for a couple years, I'm going to the Mac for less and less stuff.

    Photoshop is still and always the killer app for a Mac, though some online editors are starting to pick up on basic image editing. So I guess I'm stuck with this rich boat anchor for a while longer. If I had a way to get off it, I would. I can only dread what Apple's next round of "courage" will bring.

  25. Re: It's just a freakin laptop by Maelwryth · · Score: 1

    I was looking at buying a linux laptop the other week. I believe all of the will run Office under wine. https://masonbee.nz/category/t...

    --
    I reserve the write to mangle english.
  26. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    Isn't Keynote just Powerpoint?

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  27. Re:Feedback after pressing the power-on button! by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    It's even more awesome when you need the power plugged into the external display module for that to work, but the laptop won't turn on unless the power is directly plugged into the laptop.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  28. Re:It's over man! by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    IF you're an iphone developer, you're "committed to the mac"

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  29. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by fantod · · Score: 4, Insightful

    I've have been looking at other laptops. All laptops have compromises. It used to be Apple compromise was the price, max heat/thinness, and the shiny screen. I've found plenty of laptops that have terrible keyboards, limited Linux support, no SSD, no PCI SSD, terrible trackpads, terrible screens, limited RAM, poorly thought out high DPI screens, even worse thermal management, touchbar-like gimmicks, etc. I won't buy a current MacBook Pro, and probably never again, but I haven't seen anything else I liked unreservedly, either.

    I also reserve the right to complain about how the last decade of Linux Desktop development has gone to produce something that looks like but isn't as good as Windows 95, and how of my 4 most used Windows app, 3 of them quit differently and all have different chrome. Also how Haiku apps stutter, even though the multithreaded UI was supposed to prevent that.

  30. Re:fix the Mac by going back in time a few years. by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    Mag-safe only worked if you were using your laptop on a desk. Otherwise it would fall out at random times. And I don't buy a laptop to use at a desk.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  31. Wish list by tarokejihi · · Score: 1
    I have a 2015 MacBook Pro 13" that I like, however it doesn't compare with my previous 2010 MBP13. And in term of keyboard the 2015 is very disappointing while the best one IMHO was the 2008 MacBook Black. So my wish list would be :
    • - 2008 MB Black keyboard with physical function keys
    • - Mag safe (that was innovation)
    • - Replaceable battery
    • - Replaceable SSD
    • - Upgradable RAM up to 128Go
    • - Mini Display port
    • - Mate display as an option
    • - 3 to 4 USB-A ports on the same side
    • - IR Remote (that was neat)
    • - Aluminium Unibody (it is good)
  32. Re:Feedback after pressing the power-on button! by fibonacci8 · · Score: 2

    Great, now I have to change my password.

    --
    Inheritance is the sincerest form of nepotism.
  33. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by Howitzer86 · · Score: 1

    Obviously not, or else they could just use another keyboard (without looking silly).

  34. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by ciurana · · Score: 1

    Keynote is just PowerPoint like a Corvette ZR1 is jjust a car,

    Cheers!

    --
    http://eugeneciurana.com | http://ciurana.eu
  35. "almost a given" by Mozai · · Score: 1

    How is "parts that don't break before the warranty expires" _almost_ a given?

    1. Re:"almost a given" by drinkypoo · · Score: 1

      How is "parts that don't break before the warranty expires" _almost_ a given?

      Courage? Thinking differently?

      --
      "You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
  36. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    I've been reading some feature comparisons, and they both seem to do the same thing. Keynote just spoon feeds you Apple's design better.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  37. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    I suppose in theory it's better to have some influence over what happens instead of whining about it later.

    What am I on about, it's Apple. ROFLMAO. Courage!

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
  38. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by Oh+really+now · · Score: 1

    Somewhat true, but what Keynote does better than PowerPoint is get stuff out of the way. If you're an occasional slide show creator like most of the world, you'll get your presentation done in a tiny fraction of the time using Keynote. PowerPoint is less immediately intuitive, and takes more time to find where certain features are hidden among the sea of widgets. Keynote has a more simplified interface.

  39. A few items not improved by speedlaw · · Score: 1

    I want the magsafe back. That alone saved me a few thousand new laptops. A USB port might be nice, and not only a C port...dongles ? Really ? I bought an Air again just because of that.

  40. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by Joce640k · · Score: 1, Insightful

    Preferably a keyboard that has a DEL key.

    (...and PgUp/PgDn/Home/End).

    --
    No sig today...
  41. Re:It's over man! by _merlin · · Score: 1

    Yeah, I'm kinda lucky that the line-of-business applications I develop are deployed on Linux, the open source projects I contribute to are portable across Windows/Linux/Mac, and for my photography etc. the Adobe stuff runs on Windows as well as Mac. I don't need (or want) to develop Mac or iPhone software at this point.

  42. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by speedlaw · · Score: 2

    I'm someone locked into Apple. Why ? My children pounded on them for years--no issues with data loss or OS. My wife is an appliance user...no issues with her stuff either. Every time someone gives me a Windows machine I spend hours on updates (that often don't load) and getting nonsense out of the start up folder. Based simply on time "running the box", and not even doing work, the money spent on Apple has paid back in time returned to my life. YMMV and I don't code, but the only Windows machine we have is my son's gaming rig...and even he wishes he wasn't forcibly "upgraded" to 10. So, just no.

  43. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by speedlaw · · Score: 1

    and if my option was Win7, OK. Win 10 POS

  44. Re: It's just a freakin laptop by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

    He didn't say Linux. That could be a chromebook, which has deep linux support since it runs a Linux kernel tuned by the manufacturer.

  45. Re:WTF, who are these people? by Cmdln+Daco · · Score: 1

    MacOS is evolving into the expensive proprietary hardware developers had to use to develop Nintendo games.

  46. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    I learned PowerPoint from front to back, with making fully animated slides by creating objects with multiple shapes in a matter of 4 hours.

    --
    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  47. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by 605dave · · Score: 1

    Ever hear the expression "1 size does not fit all"?

    I am happy with the purchase and it has served me admirably. So I bought a MacBook, I am not a fool.

    You think they are overpriced and you can get a better deal. You are not a fool.

    --
    Be kind, for everyone you meet is fighting a difficult battle. - Plato
  48. Re:Feedback after pressing the power-on button! by PetiePooo · · Score: 1

    Great, now I have to change your password.

    Fixed that for ya'...

  49. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by jythie · · Score: 1

    Depends on what you use your tool for. One of the big reasons people use Macs is the OS and software, and stick with the macbooks mostly because hackintoshs are too much trouble.

  50. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by Ensign_Expendable · · Score: 1

    I must be one of five people in the world that loves the current keyboard. The keys are larger and the short "travel" helps me type faster. The dust issue is problematic, I will concede.

  51. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by jythie · · Score: 2

    Even when people can switch, they still might simply prefer OSX. In my lab we have windows, OSX, and linux machines, and many of us use all 3 for various tasks. But when it comes to laptops pretty much everyone uses macbooks to do their real work.. and this is a software development shop and thus not exactly 'average users'.

  52. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by jythie · · Score: 1

    This. Keynote is a great tool for occasional users or ones who just want to produce slides. Powerpoint is better if you really want to get into producing flashy 'wow' presentations.

  53. Thicker! It all starts with that. by LaughingElk · · Score: 1

    I'm typing this my 2015 MacBook Pro that I've been nursing along. I have a long list of things Apple could do to get me to buy a new MacBook, but it all starts with one thing:

    Make it thicker!

    Once you've done that, now there's room for
    -A real keyboard with real key travel
    -USB 3 ports
    -An ethernet port
    -Several kinds of video ports
    -A really, really big battery
    -A heat management system that doesn't have to throttle the processor
    -A reliable hinge that doesn't pinch the video cables
    -Great speakers
    -Magsafe!

    Please make this happen, Apple. I never asked you for a laptop that was so thin I could shave with it.

  54. Allright... here's my Macbook Pro Wishlist: by El+Jynx · · Score: 1

    DO change:
    - go back one keyboard generation
    - bring back the f'in 17" model, and a 20" model for huge people like me (and gamers / designers)
    - create a decent desktop docking system, with MODULAR port expansions so people can pick what they need (SD card, old Firewire, MIDI, whatever). You're the geniuses, rethink the workplace.
    - a few normal USB ports. I know USB-C is the way to go, but I share the dislike of extra dongles when I'm traveling. Seriously? Find some other way to force the ecosystem.
    - Why not just make the left or the right side modular as well, so I can swap in a bar with USB ports for a bar with SD slots and Firewire for when I go photo editing?

    Do NOT change (or, at least, check carefully with public opinion first {yeah, I know, wishful thinking}):
    - the hardware / software integration. It's awesome.
    - aesthetics. They've always looked gorgeous, keep it up.
    - the great Displays. Love the resolution.

    Rethink:
    - the keyboard.
    - Mac as a gaming platform. I've got a Steam account full of games that prove that it's quite possible. It just requires some PROPER FRICKIN' DRIVERS and some dedication/commitment from Apple.

    --
    A positive attitude may not solve all your problems, but it will annoy enough people to make it well worth the effort.
  55. Who really uses the keyboard? by AlanObject · · Score: 1

    A lot of bellyaching about keyboards here.

    I am typing this on a Apple bluetooth keyboard paired to my MacPro-2015. I would say 90% of my heavy-typing work is done at my desk where the keyboard is. The laptop itself is closed and driving an external display which also provides me a wired mouse.

    The only time when I even open the laptop is when I take it somewhere. And then I use the keyboard that still looks new after four years. All laptops that are lightweight have keyboard problems eventually don't fool yourself. Anyone who pounds on one at their desk by default is just asking for it.

  56. The OS Chimera by AlanObject · · Score: 1

    As usual I see the back-and-forth between Windows/Linux/MacOS. Everything said has been said before many many times.

    Including this.

    I have MacOS but I also have Windows in VM. Some applications just don't have a MacOS version like Solidworks, The Citrix Xen VM manager and a number of tools like that and accounting packages.

    I have lots of Linux systems around so I don't need a Linux VM but if I did I could have one in a few minutes.

    In this day and age crusading for one favored OS over another is just retarded. So is arguing that it is too hard to switch.

    But.

    MacOS hosts Windows and Linux and BSD as guest VMs far better than any other OS hosts its rivals. And by "better" I mean not only do the over-boundary features work but it is much easier to install and maintain.

    So if you are a serious multi-system developer you don't need MacOS but you would prefer it if you care about productivity.

  57. Add official eGPU support for MacBook Pro 2012 by bussdriver · · Score: 1

    EXACTLY!
    You have to sell it as a new revolutionary DONGLE. Apple is obsessed with the stupid things. The "super dongle" which snaps on the side and puts back all the ports the idiots removed.

    Parent is right... but:
    2012 is the last decent MacBook Pro. I've given up on them getting back any retired competent employees. I am fine with Thunderbolt 1 eGPU just wish it wasn't a mess to get it working.

    + REPLACABLE SSD (they can have defects, always getting larger)
    + REPLACABLE RAM (2012 last one)
    + 2nd SSD slot. My 2012 DVD-R is replaced with a cheap HD used as a 2nd backup. slower cheaper larger is fine. I realize they'll never go back to spinning rust storage.

  58. Trackpad, keyboard, low reflection display, ports, by clay_buster · · Score: 1

    Trackpad, keyboard, low reflection display, ports, magsafe. MacBooks used to be top or have good options for these areas.

  59. Infected by the USB virus by bussdriver · · Score: 1

    Apple finally needs to get vaccinated...
    Hopefully the disease over at USB 3,4 ...Intel with Thunderbolt... doesn't spread any further. Obviously, Apple got it when they were in bed with Intel on Thunderbolt 3.

    MagSafe plugs didn't last... the cables used a stupid type of plastic too. but making $$ in replacements wasn't enough to counter the brain damaging USB virus.

    YES MagSafe maxed at 85 Watts. Apple CRIPPLED all their laptops so you run your battery down doing serious work. Their LIE is heat related but if you stick your laptop out in the winter so the fan never comes on, it will still draw over 85W and start pulling from the battery until it goes dead! Recent OS updates kept the machine from dying so it just cycles down to half speed like it was overheating. Not a PRO device if you can not do PRO workloads on it. (think rendering overnight) plus you can't replace the battery you are wearing down with extra cycles (anytime you peg 100% it draws from battery for the missing power.)

    1. Re:Infected by the USB virus by blindseer · · Score: 1

      Not a PRO device if you can not do PRO workloads on it. (think rendering overnight)

      Overnight rendering on a laptop? You are doing it wrong.

      --
      I am armed because I am free. I am free because I am armed.
    2. Re:Infected by the USB virus by bussdriver · · Score: 1

      If I rendered stuff for a living, then I'd not use a laptop for it. We have general purpose computers so we can do anything on them we feel like.

      You buy "pro" gear so you can use it 100% not be stuck with a tiny power supply that has to borrow from your battery every time you run the CPU at 100%.... adding to battery cycle count... which BTW, are not officially a user replaceable item. The thermals are a false problem; adding a heat sink fixed it.

      Yet again, blind-seer... I see you assuming confidently despite being blind... such a fitting handle.

  60. Sign Apple F'd up bigtime by bussdriver · · Score: 1

    When people are making LISTS and rank ordering them to fix what used to be the best. Windows users used to buy Mac then run windows simply because the laptop was so good. not anymore.

  61. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by quonset · · Score: 2

    So you're saying it's easy to use, doesn't require daily maintenance, and isn't expensive to update?

    Sounds like a good product.

  62. Real Innovation: by bussdriver · · Score: 1

    The bottom metal plate they've always had, make it do something:

    1) super thin unibody like now. no battery. just a few ports. like now.

    2) cheap: battery IS the metal plate on the bottom. glued to the plate. Essentially, the battery's bottom cover is the metal bottom of the laptop. Simple cable plug connects it. Keeps DIY people happy and they can continue their current behavior.

    3) medium: metal plate on bottom has side ridges so it makes laptop THICKER. add more battery.

    4) pro: same as above but side ridge has all the needed missing ports. Added SSD too* MAGSAFE PORT. (added weight = magnet now works + it's damaged more if it weighs more.)

    5) fancy: pro + more ports + thicker for more battery.

    6) 3rd party products:

    - hardened in-field add-ons with wrap around plastic/rubber to protect the whole bottom and sides of the laptop.
    - docking solutions; bottom plates designed to dock
    - GPU + Fans + even more SSD... 3rd party power... crazy big batteries... 12V car power... eGPU is nice but not portable. People USED to be able to lift 8lb laptops , some of us still can.

    * All models: MB has a simple internal PCI connector (as they used to do in various forms forever... to get wifi or cards or bluetooth, etc.) This allows for any kind of bottom plate circuitry.

  63. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by skegg · · Score: 1

    >> What am I on about, it's Apple. ROFLMAO. Courage!

    If not for this minor (yet major) point. They're giving feedback to one darn obstinate, hubristic company.

  64. Current MacBook Pro hardware is... lacking by Chelloveck · · Score: 1

    I've been using MacBook Pros for a decade now. I got one of the new ones a few weeks ago. My experience...

    • I actually like the feel of the new keyboard. The key travel is a slight bit too shallow for my taste, but it feels crisp. I haven't had it long enough to know if it's reliable over time.
    • The arrow keys blow. The previous machines had an inverted-T pattern with all the keys half-height. You could easily find them by feel. The new one has the left/right keys full height, and the up/down keys half-height between them. It's almost impossible to differentiate them by touch. Yeah, yeah, I know, real programmers don't use the arrow keys...
    • The touchbar is a major WTF. It would have been an innocuous addition to the function keys. It's a horrible replacement for them. No tactile feedback and the need to look down from the screen make it difficult to use. Worse, things that were a single keypress (volume control, expose, brightness) are now multiple presses and waiting for the damned thing to finish its transition animations between them. Who is this designed for? What workflow could this possibly improve?
    • I'm constantly brushing against the oversized trackpad with my palms. It does a reasonable job detecting this and ignoring false touches, but if my left palm is near it and I use my right hand to try to use the mouse the trackpad will often decide that both are unintentional. And on previous models I'd do a click-drag by moving the pointer with my index finger, then clicking and holding with my thumb while I continue to drag with my index finger. Can't do that any more, the click-hold is apparently triggering the palm rejection.
    • Lack of magsafe. Magsafe saved me so many times. I can't wait until I damage a USB cable or the port itself because somebody trips over my power cord.
    • All USB-C. Okay, maybe it is the future, but it's *NOT* the present. How about a couple legacy ports so I don't have to lug around an entire bag of adapters?

    I've been very happy with Apple's hardware for a long time, and I like the OS better than any of the alternatives for daily desktop use. I gave them the benefit of the doubt this time around and I'm not happy with how it worked out. My next machine won't be a Mac unless these issues get fixed.

    --
    Chelloveck
    I give up on debugging. From now on, SIGSEGV is a feature.
  65. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    Most who buy Apple products have no clue as to what a quality tool is -- they just believe the hype/reality distortion field.

    They like the Apple stores, they see their friends have pretty MacBooks, they go with the flow.

    Apple really understands marketing and presentation.

    --
    No sig today...
  66. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    The new Win8+ start menu and "flat" colors are a UI disaster, yes. The first thing I do with any Windows PC these days is install Classic Shell.

    Apart from that, Win10 isn't awful.

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    No sig today...
  67. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by Joce640k · · Score: 1

    Bollocks. Nobody develops real software with a MacBook keyboard.

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    No sig today...
  68. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by Chrontius · · Score: 1

    Normally I don’t reply to trolls.

    But “Network Utility” alone is enough to make me seriously consider never abandoning OSX, even if I have to refurb an old white MacBook and run the oldest supported software to make it snappy again.

  69. Re: It's just a freakin laptop by Chrontius · · Score: 1

    I’d prefer BSD, but at this point I’m willing to consider any Unix distro whose UI isn’t a bag of dicks, (Unity, I’m looking at you) and where I don’t need to drop into the terminal unless I want to.

    Honestly, I like Chromebooks. (Especially for handing to people who don’t “do computers” - automating myself out of a job supporting family IT bullshit is nice! Last time I did it, though, it was with MacOS, but I’d definitely be pitching Chrome these days) That’s not what I’m looking for, here, though. Though, I suppose, a hacking-shed or devmode Chromebook (pixel?) might actually suit me quite nicely.

    That said, since when did they have a decent (read: reliable, drama-free) way to run MS apps on Unix?

  70. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by Paul+Carver · · Score: 1

    Whatever you're using ftp for should definitely have been retired about a decade ago, but does sshfs not work on a mac? My laptop runs Linux and I mostly use scp from the command line, but do on occasion use sshfs if I feel like I absolutely must use a file browser. Why would you want to use a different file browser for remote files than you do for local files?

    I use sshfs on my laptop, on my servers, on raspberry pi, on my OpenWRT routers. It's basically just sftp under the hood so it would be bizarre if it doesn't work on a mac.

  71. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by Chrontius · · Score: 1

    It probably has something to do with the local broadband monopoly not delivering anything fit for service

  72. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by Chrontius · · Score: 1

    Time you spend operating the computer is time you can’t spend using the computer?

  73. Re: It's just a freakin laptop by vux984 · · Score: 1

    Ive got a few blockers, but one key area where linux falls flat in professional use:

    skype for business meetings, microsoft teams meetings, ring central conference calls, teamviewer meetings, onedrive for business, and sharepoint document collaboration stuff.

    Linux is very much a 2nd class citizen or excluded outright. Yes, some options support linux, and for office365 you've got the web-apps which do _some_ of the stuff, but it's limited and slower.

    You can't dictate what your clients, and partner organizations use and its unprofessional and unacceptable to be "difficult" to meet with people, to only be able to join from a smart phone when training and presentations are being made etc. (And using your phone to get around limitations in linux still requires acknowledging that those are limitations with linux that you had to introduce a 2nd platform in order work around them.)

  74. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    The MacBook keyboard is a relatively new issue.
    So yes, many people use macs for software development.

    I never tried the new keyboard, so I have no idea how it feels.

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  75. Re:fix the Mac by going back in time a few years. by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

    I use my laptops 99.99999% of my time on the desk.

    That I use it in bed or actually on my lap is an extremely rare occurrence.

    --
    Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  76. Magsafe by DatbeDank · · Score: 1

    KEYBOARD FOLLOWED BY MAGSAFE!

    Yes it's old and yes it's not USB-C. But it's proven tech that works. A standard that came to define Apple.

    Dropping it was an absolute mistake. The Surface products all have equivalent magsafe knock offs that work very well. For the first time, Apple is regressing and resting on its laurels.

    Bring it back, admit the mistake, and move on from this singular love of silly USB C ports.

  77. Re:fix the Mac by going back in time a few years. by fluffernutter · · Score: 1

    Then why not buy a desktop?

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    Laws are rules for the court, but merely a bottom bar to hit for life. Think beyond laws in your actions always.
  78. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by Chrontius · · Score: 1

    I find that most of them I've laid hands or eyes upon in person lately have all of those compromises you point out. The only exception is the "poorly thought out high DPI screens" part, since most of them omit that feature entirely.

  79. Re: It's just a freakin laptop by vux984 · · Score: 1

    "If you want me to integrate windows 3.11 with a trumpet winsock as your public facing mission critical whatever... You're not going to be a client."

    Sure that's fair. You can easily afford to walk away from those potential clients. But can you really afford to walk away from everyone who uses office 365? And not just from clients, but also vendors, subcontractors, and other 3rd parties?

  80. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by tsa · · Score: 1

    Most flashy wow presentations are extremely annoying to watch.

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    -- Cheers!

  81. Re:It's just a freakin laptop by finkployd · · Score: 1

    That effort required has become a LOT closer in recent years. I've switched. (after 15 years)