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QuadrigaCX Allegedly Traded Against Its Own Customers Without Assets To Back Them (ambcrypto.com)

geoskd writes: QuadrigaCX, the Canadian crypto exchange that made news recently with the passing of its CEO, Gerald Cotten, has been alleged to have been buying cryptocurrency from traders on its platform without having actual assets to perform the transactions. The transactions showed credit to the customers accounts, but when the customer tried to withdraw cash, they had to wait until other customers deposited cash before the funds became available. There is also an accusation that this behavior exists at many other crypto exchanges as well. Perhaps it is time to take a fresh look at Tether...

34 of 93 comments (clear)

  1. "Perhaps it is time to take a fresh look at..." by DogDude · · Score: 5, Funny

    No. Just stop. Really. Just stop.

    --
    I don't respond to AC's.
    1. Re:"Perhaps it is time to take a fresh look at..." by Len · · Score: 2

      But I didn't lose all of my money to QuadrigaCX, so I need to know who can scam the rest off me.

    2. Re:"Perhaps it is time to take a fresh look at..." by Krishnoid · · Score: 4, Insightful

      I really hope these stories *do* continue. I'd like to find one of these middlemen willing to violate as many financial laws as possible, so general education gets into the news cycle as to why investment regulations exist in the first place.

      In addition, it would be great if it covered how each of these violations is currently playing out nearly identically to the way it did at the time in history when/prompting enactment of these regulations. A few months of this and I think even the get-rich-quickers will understand the point.

    3. Re:"Perhaps it is time to take a fresh look at..." by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The transactions showed credit to the customers accounts, but when the customer tried to withdraw cash, they had to wait until other customers deposited cash before the funds became available. There is also an accusation that this behavior exists at many other crypto exchanges as well.

      So you're saying they're just ordinary Ponzi schemes dressed up with fancy geekery? I'm shocked, shocked I tell you!

    4. Re:"Perhaps it is time to take a fresh look at..." by Guspaz · · Score: 5, Informative

      Except your money in a bank account is protected by the CDIC (if you're in Canada, or the FDIC if you're in the US), and there are all sorts of regulations to make sure that banks have enough money on hand to cover withdrawals under normal circumstances.

    5. Re:"Perhaps it is time to take a fresh look at..." by sjames · · Score: 3, Informative

      Exactly this! Many of the banking regulations were put into place in the wake of a disastrous series of bank failures during the depression. These include the FDIC and minimum reserve requirements. the depression era failures are where we get the stereotype of grandma or grandpa stuffing their money in the mattress.

      Crypto currencies bypass those regulations, so it should be no surprise that some "bank like" institutions dealing in crypto currencies are no safer than the pre-regulation banks.

      This SHOULD serve as a warning to the deregulate all the things crowd, but I doubt very much it will sink in.

    6. Re:"Perhaps it is time to take a fresh look at..." by stinerman · · Score: 1

      Obviously this is not the case because the AC spoke of bank runs being "such a problem". I don't know about you but every few weeks we have a bank run in my town, which is why I keep all of my money under my mattress.

      Sometimes I think that we're being inundated with people from the 1920s every time a cryptocurrency story appears.

    7. Re:"Perhaps it is time to take a fresh look at..." by DRJlaw · · Score: 1

      I'm surprised no-one pointed out the obvious here: All banks work this way - they overleverage and loan out more money than they have reserve to cover. This is why a bank run is such a problem.

      No, no legitimate banks work this way. They do "overleverage" and loan out more money than they have in their cash reserve to cover withdrawals, because that's how they earn the interest that they pay customers for their deposits! Most bank loans and investments are illiquid -- you cannot simply call in the loan or sell the investment immediately on demand -- and the bank's cash reserve is only on the order of 5% of deposits based upon long-time historical analysis of deposit holdings versus withdrawal rates.

      But the bank loans and investments are subject to quality reviews and standards imposed by Federally chartered entities (FDIC/Fannie Mae/Freddy Mac), state regulations, and private ensurers. They are almost always legitimate debts with predictable replayment flows and solvency. This is why the mortgage meltdown set the financial world and people are incensed that there have been minimal criminal proceedings (although the civil settlements against mortgage originators have been huge).

      The cryptocurrency exchanges aren't making legitimate loans. They are treating their deposits as a piggy bank at best, and raiding them for hookers and blow at the worst. Graft, corruption, and self-dealing are not "overleveraging," and you should be ashamed to have equated the two.

    8. Re:"Perhaps it is time to take a fresh look at..." by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Crypto currencies bypass those regulations, so it should be no surprise that some "bank like" institutions dealing in crypto currencies are no safer than the pre-regulation banks.

      People never seem to understand that cryptocurrency is a completely unregulated financial market.

      You have zero legal protections, because this is what you thought was a feature.

      These exchanges aren't even remotely bank like. I liken it more to having someone hold on to a large pile of your cash without a receipt and without legal protections -- you might get your money back, but if you don't, don't go around acting all surprised. And don't whine that you have no recourse because you chose to participate in an unregulated financial market.

      I find myself reading that summary and thinking "Oh, gee, a cryptocurrency exchange is little more than a ponzi scheme".

      I'm past being concerned about the plight of people who handed their money to something which most assuredly isn't a bank. Bummer dude, but you might as well give your keys to a homeless guy and ask him to park your car.

      I find little about the official account of this exchange to be credible, because it sounds like it was shady from the beginning.

    9. Re:"Perhaps it is time to take a fresh look at..." by sjames · · Score: 1

      It certainly does seem shady. I agree it reads more like a Ponzi scheme.

    10. Re:"Perhaps it is time to take a fresh look at..." by sjames · · Score: 1

      In this case, there's no guarantee you will actually be issued the stock, and if you sell it back, no guarantee that the dollar balance in your account can ever actually be withdrawn.

      Meanwhile, they do their best to project a bank-like image.

  2. Crypto is MLM by mabu · · Score: 5, Insightful

    It amazes me that this Ponzi scheme is still ongoing. There's ample evidence of wash trading at all the major exchanges.

    One of my favorite quotes on this is from the NYU economics professor who was famous for identifying the housing bubble, who also called out the crypto currency bubble in 2017, is asked again what he thinks of the crypto movement:

    "I also have attended many of these crypto or blockchain conferences. I met some of these individuals, and I must say I’ve never seen in my life people who on one side are so arrogant in their views, who are total zealots and fanatics about this new asset class, while at the same time completely and totally ignorant of basic economics, finance, money, banking, central banking, monetary policy.

    They want to reinvent everything about money, but most of them are absolutely totally clueless. The ratio between arrogant and ignorant is astounding — I have never seen such a gap in my life. These are fanatics. Some of them, like criminals, zealots, scammers, carnival barkers, insiders who are just talking their book 24/7.

    There is an element of excess in every bubble, but the typical bubble is an outgrowth of some technological evolution that maybe changes the world for the better. The internet was in a bubble in the late 1990s, but it was a real thing but valuations of many internet-related stocks were sky-high. Prices crashed and dot-coms went bust, but the internet kept on growing. Billions of people used it, and it has changed the world. Cryptocurrency as a technology has absolutely no basis for success, and the mother of all bubbles is now bust.

    Twitter and in-person interactions with the fans of cryptocurrencies made me stronger and more secure in my belief."

    1. Re:Crypto is MLM by ArchieBunker · · Score: 1

      It works pretty well on the Dream Market.

      --
      Only the State obtains its revenue by coercion. - Murray Rothbard
    2. Re:Crypto is MLM by mabu · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Well, in fairness, the early days of crypto currency treated crypto currency like an actual currency: having zero intrinsic value and mainly being a placeholder for goods and services that were exchanged. In fact the original premise of Bitcoin was as a micro-payment system of nominal value, allowing people to send tiny bits of pennies, that in aggregate would matter to third world countries and various charities, etc.

      What we see now, is something completely different: the treatment of crypto as an investment security itself, which makes absolutely no sense because it has nothing tangible backing it up.

      So the problem isn't with bitcoin as much as the perverse way people have now begun to use it, which is fundamentally different than how it was originally designed.

      Now bitcoin (and all crypto) is basically a distributed money laundering system with a Ponzi scheme on top. There is no reason for anybody to be in this space unless they're a criminal, or want to engage in criminal-like behavior (such as profiting by exploiting others and not offering anything of real value in return).

      Crypto and blockchain offer nothing to regular, ethical businesspeople. But they're like catnip to anarchists and narcissists.

    3. Re:Crypto is MLM by Luthair · · Score: 1

      It wasn't, the shills were simply out in force. Cryptocurrencies were the biggest pump and dump of all time.

    4. Re:Crypto is MLM by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Funny

      This is FALSE.

      The investment side IS backed up by the fixed issuance quantity absorbing whatever portfolio allocation the worlds investing and saving populace decides to put into it over time. Even at a measly 10% allocation of all cash, gold, savings, you're looking at $1M coin. Start digitizing even just 10% of stock, commodity, real estate and derivatives markets and yeah, $100M is no problem. From $0 10 years ago, to $100M 10-20 years from now. That's your return. And it WILL happen because investors and people want it... they want the digital convenience, the privacy, the sub-hour worldwide settlement, the contracts, the witnessing, etc, and the freedom.

      Once the investment side reaches global portfolio comfort allocation, and forex equilibrium, the growth phase slows towards that point, while the underlying transaction and cash aspect that has been running and growing since day zero just continues on level from that point thereafter.

      It's really quite simple and amazing how such vast swaths of people fail to grasp it.
      Once they all wake up in about 3-5 years and things start to really click... holy shit you better be strapped in that rocketship because the force launching you will be hella strong.

    5. Re:Crypto is MLM by Cederic · · Score: 1

      So look, I decided to give myself a challenge and select no more than one comment from any Slashdot story.

      https://news.slashdot.org/comm...
      https://news.slashdot.org/comm...
      https://hardware.slashdot.org/...
      https://news.slashdot.org/comm...
      https://news.slashdot.org/comm...
      https://yro.slashdot.org/comme...
      https://news.slashdot.org/comm...
      https://news.slashdot.org/comm...

      I could go further (by looking further back in time) but I think the point is made.

  3. Cryptocurrency value for money by alvinrod · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I'm beginning to think that cryptocurrency is some of the best value you can get for your money. At least in terms of entertainment for the people who didn't invest in any of it. Maybe it will all eventually settle down and turn into a respectable currency, but right now you can't find a bigger shit show anywhere and it's utterly engrossing. We should at least require that all cryptocurrency algorithms do something useful like protein folding so that at least some good comes out of all of this idiocy.

    1. Re:Cryptocurrency value for money by ceoyoyo · · Score: 1

      It's a great object lesson for people who think that government financial regulation is bad, such as most of the bitcoin evangelists. Of course, the lesson seems to be utterly lost. As you say, entertaining though.

      Seriously though, if you were twenty something, fresh out of college, running your first business nearly solo from your basement, and a bunch of idiots gave you hundreds of millions of dollars, would you not steal them?

    2. Re:Cryptocurrency value for money by Required+Snark · · Score: 1
      Although cryptocurrency is an endless source of amusement for those who enjoy watching avarice, gross stupidity and morons getting fleeced, in the overall scheme of things it can't hold a candle compared to Congress.

      Schadenfreude trade offs of cryptocurrency vs Congress:

      Cryptocurrency isn't completely free entertainment because one way or another the public ends up paying for the scams. But for how much it costs you personally it's a bargain.

      Congress has Hiking the Appalachian Trail, revelations about paying off porn stars, the head of the EPA spending $43K on a phone booth, overt racism, endless sexual misconduct, etc, as well as all the cryptocurrency kerfuffle. Unfortunately, Congress is really expensive, and when they get it wrong it has a huge impact on your personal life, and the lives of everyone else in the world and generations yet unborn.

      So Congress, as much fun as it is, does not provide the same bang for the buck because it's so damned terrifying.

      --
      Why is Snark Required?
    3. Re:Cryptocurrency value for money by arglebargle_xiv · · Score: 1

      I'm beginning to think that cryptocurrency is some of the best value you can get for your money.

      Congresspeople are the best value you can get for your money. Cryptocurrency is a distinct second.

    4. Re:Cryptocurrency value for money by Type44Q · · Score: 1

      We should at least require that all cryptocurrency algorithms do something useful like protein folding

      When I first read about Bitcoin (on here, no doubt), I initially misunderstood its premise and thought it was backed by processing power (i.e. we'd be buying and selling units of "computing time"). I quickly realized that this wouldn't work - it would be deflationary - but it didn't sound so silly after I found out what BC was actually backed by

  4. Cardpool does the same thing by Powercntrl · · Score: 1

    If you try to sell a gift card to Cardpool for Amazon credit when they're all out of Amazon gift cards, they will delay processing your order for an eternity (most likely, due to waiting for people to sell them some unwanted Amazon gift cards).

    The internet is full of shady dealings.

    --

    ---
    DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
    1. Re:Cardpool does the same thing by Solandri · · Score: 1

      If you try to sell a gift card to Cardpool for Amazon credit when they're all out of Amazon gift cards, they will delay processing your order for an eternity (most likely, due to waiting for people to sell them some unwanted Amazon gift cards).

      The usual way you solve that is to allow bidding, with the highest bidder getting the exchange first instead of the first person to enter a bid. That way if there's a shortage of Amazon gift cards, the excess bids for Amazon gift cards makes them more valuable, encouraging people who have Amazon gift cards to give them up.

      But that creates a free market, which apparently is taboo for some of the people running and participating in these exchanges. So they languish with queues and delays.

  5. Re: "Perhaps it is time to take a fresh look at... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Deregulation and lack of oversight means the majority will get screwed over while a few might ... might just get rich. Everyone thinks they are one of the few, not realizing that if they haven't set the terms, written the rules, or done the time to build something, it's only a matter of time before they fall into the crosshairs of fate, criminals intent on finding out where they live, both, or far far worse.

    Greed turns everyone into naive little boys and girls. The more there is to gain, the more they thinks they have a sure thing going, the greedier they get. And it is in their fall that others others become truly rich.

    Thank everyone for buying into cryptocurrency! Their ruination will give rise to a better, greater world and be the better for it.

  6. Re: "Perhaps it is time to take a fresh look at... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Except banks have minimal capital requirements that prevent a depositor from having to wait for their cash. So again there is a proven mechanism in the traditional financial market that these new currencies ignore. And yes bank runs and massive economic crises can overrun this protections but it also work millions of times a day.

  7. Re:No, not another "exchange" by jpaine619 · · Score: 1

    Yeah.. The "authorities" are awesome at regulation... Totally prevented the 2008 banking crisis. Oh wait....

  8. Re:Great Risk of More Exchange Owners To Runaway!! by jpaine619 · · Score: 1

    What the hell is up with all of the unnecessary commas? They have a purpose. They aren't glitter that you sprinkle all over the fucking place.

  9. Re:Fractional reserve by jpaine619 · · Score: 3, Informative

    No. It's not the same. Your bank is earning interest on the money it loans out.. i.e. there is always some positive cash flow.. Well, assuming it's not 2008 and they aren't loaning gobs of money to assholes with a credit score of 400.

    These morons were buying coins with money they did not have. If your bank runs out of cash, they make a phone call and have more delivered via armored truck. Your bank can also sell assets or loans to generate cash. i.e. they can sell real property or debt obligations that are backed by real property.

    I feel like I shouldn't have to explain this. Gonna have to assume you're a product of our (USA) public school system and have never been taught financial responsibility and how the banking system actually works. Mostly this, probably, isn't your fault. Well, unless you're an adult.. Then you should have sought out the knowledge.. You can't be expected to be spoon fed every bit of information you need to navigate life.

    Fiscal education should be absolutely mandatory.. Knowing how to manage your money and how the whole damn system works is information that is critical to a person's financial well being and stability.

  10. Re:No, not another "exchange" by gravewax · · Score: 1

    the 2008 banking crisis is a perfect example of what happens with lack of regulation, crypto currencies are like a permanent 2008 banking crisis.

  11. Re:Fractional reserve by Roger+W+Moore · · Score: 1

    No. It's not the same. Your bank is earning interest on the money it loans out.

    So it's exactly the same. The bank expects to get the loan amount plus interest back whereas these guys expected to make money when the crypto rose in value. In either case, there is a risk that the bet will not pay off and the person making it will end up in trouble because they have lost the assets they need to repay the customer.

    The only difference is that banks are highly regulated and, as a result, have to keep the risk of the bets they make under control. In return they have a central, government infrastructure to provide emergency cash and loans plus usually deposit guarantees.

  12. Perhaps ... by cascadingstylesheet · · Score: 1

    Perhaps it is time to take a fresh look at Tether...

    No, perhaps it's time to take a fresh look at not using fake "currency" slung by carnival hucksters who make Donald Trump look like Mother Theresa by comparison.

  13. Re:Tether is a joke by Luthair · · Score: 1

    I thought the point was that people should look at their finances because it might also be a scam.

  14. lol what the hell? by stonecypher · · Score: 1

    > Perhaps it is time to take a fresh look at Tether...

    Why? Their auditors bailed when they couldn't find assets to back the coin, which is just the more severe form of the same damn scam

    Author owns tether - suspicion level 1.0

    --
    StoneCypher is Full of BS