Slashdot Mirror
Texas Lawmakers Want To Stop Tesla From Fixing Its Own Cars (electrek.co)
In Texas the local car dealer lobby has blocked Tesla from selling its cars directly to customers. They're using old laws meant to prevent car manufacturers from competing with their own local dealers -- but Tesla never had any local dealers!
And according to Electrek, it gets worse... Despite this issue, Texans have bought thousands of Tesla vehicles, which the automaker delivers from other states to comply with the law. Tesla has been able to service those vehicles through its own service centers, which are not subject to those same direct-sale rules, but now dealers are even going after Tesla's right to service its cars.
Quartz offers some additional coverage: At issue is a battle over money. Car dealers derive much of their revenue from selling and (especially) servicing vehicles. Tesla's direct-to-customer sales and service stations are a threat to that business model since they cut dealers out of the transaction.
And according to Electrek, it gets worse... Despite this issue, Texans have bought thousands of Tesla vehicles, which the automaker delivers from other states to comply with the law. Tesla has been able to service those vehicles through its own service centers, which are not subject to those same direct-sale rules, but now dealers are even going after Tesla's right to service its cars.
Quartz offers some additional coverage: At issue is a battle over money. Car dealers derive much of their revenue from selling and (especially) servicing vehicles. Tesla's direct-to-customer sales and service stations are a threat to that business model since they cut dealers out of the transaction.
The state which prides itself on getting big government out people lives until the people need the power of big government to kill competition.
I really like the thought of not having to take a car in for service, that someone can just come out and repair it.
One thing I've wondered is how the fix some things without a real lift - like if they need to replace some parts of the suspension. Seems like they would still have to take it to a real shop for some more advanced repairs.
Since an electric car is generally simpler. I had been wondering what kinds of repairs people were even calling in...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Did they already get John Deere to open up their software?
Do Slashdot people believe in the right to repair? Or should Tesla get to do all repairs on Teslas?
Should the government intervene in these transactions? When? Everywhere but Texas? As long as car dealers lose? As long as Tesla can do whatever they want? For people you like but not for people you don't?
Let us know. So far, the principle seems to be that the internet outrage factory will complain about anything, no matter what. Complaining seems to happen for the sake of complaining. And governments should switch from tight regulation to hands-off specifically to benefit a very special cohort that can harness the outrage message for their own personal benefit (but it's wrong, wrong, wrong, when car dealers do the same thing).
The problem is Tesla won't let anyone else work on them or sell parts. That's BS.
My mechanic is planning on specializing in vintage cars as the electrics start happening. He expects it'll be a pretty quick switch. He says that there will be very little to fix outside of suspensions, and occasionally brakes. Even brakes won't need as much fixing, because electric cars will probably all use regenerative braking. Electric motors, of course, last a very, very, very long time, and generally, they're so cheap that it makes more sense to replace a motor than taking the time to re-wind the coils.
I don't respond to AC's.
In the end, the greedy, slimy car salesman is getting the shaft. They get money from all angles of a car from sales, upgrades, repairs, used sales, subscriptions and finally a smartphone app is destroying their game. This isnt Telsa fault but Apples since they run everything.
One: Build the damned wall at the Oklahoma and New Mexico borders. Two: Just let 'em secede.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
conservatism at its finest.
Nope. I had mobile repair replace my parking brakes (warranty issue) and rotate my tires. He did it in my garage with a jack. The whole point of mobile service is that while it takes the repair guy a bit more time (both in driving and in working), it saves them a ton of overhead in buildings, so it ends up being cheaper.
"But the government created car dealership lobby in Texas is paying him great money to be their bitch."
FTFY
Look into the history; state governments imposed the dealership regime. This is the system your ancestors created to control the power of corporations in their states.
Regulation has costs. That's an important lesson to learn as you mature and set aside the kneejerk instincts with which you were trained.
Entrenched business sees its cash cow wobbling, runs screaming to government because 'jobs!!'. Or something else. I guess.
Film at 11. AC
Nope. Mobile repair can do all sorts of work, including brakes and suspension. Yes it takes longer without a lift, but the added cost in one employee's time is offset by the reduced overhead from fewer service buildings. It also means fewer loaner cars and happier customers.
Sure, there are some things they can't do, but if they shift 75% of the work to mobile service, then they can handle four times as many cars without increasing the number of service centers. It's the simplest way they can scale their service operations as the number of cars on the road jumps.
Tesla is a libtard worshipped company so you just knoe they are up to no good. Take them down NOW while you still can. Real American like us support you, Texas!
So when them congresspeople successfully block Tesla from servicing its own cars... do they happen to know how to fix the cars themselves?
Tesla should be entitled to fix their own cars, but anyone else should be too and the training / tools / parts / software required to do it should be available at a fair price.
This is absurd. Cut out the middleman and in particular when they threat Tesla over nothing. The US should be proud of Tesla, not trying to sabotage legit business. Choose another car, texans - your old F150s, if you please. Let Tesla service their customers, do not make artifical obstructions.
No. It is just like building in a tent: a stupid idea that is needed because you need to be "Agile" (a.k.a haven't thought about things completely ahead of time). Tesla is moronic.
If you're in the State of California, you're running a risk. If the mechanic is injured in your garage, you could be liable for covering his medical costs. A floor that is not completely flat, or if you have inadequate lighting, could be construed as negligence on your part. And using just a jack without jackstands is definitely dangerous.
Browsing at +1 - no ACs, I ignore their posts. So refreshing!
One thing I've wondered is how the fix some things without a real lift - like if they need to replace some parts of the suspension. Seems like they would still have to take it to a real shop for some more advanced repairs.
Nope. Thousands of people do these repairs on their own cars in their garage or driveway. They use jacks, chain hoists, and ramps (depending on the repair). Lifting an entire car 7-feet in the air is a convenience, not a necessity.
The same type of laws are present in all 50 states. Most of the states have had those laws for 50+ years, with a few going back 100 years. A few stragglers joined in the last 30 years, with Texas being the last one. So those accusing Texas of doing this because of some anti-Tesla agenda should read up on history, and look into their own states' laws before throwing stones. It'll be a helluva lot more productive towards repealing these laws or updating them to reflect how cars are purchased and repaired in the 21st century.
Forget Chicago, New York, California. The state of Texas has by far the most corrupt politicians in the nation. From the governor on down to local sheriffs, they all have their hands out to someone who's only happy to put a little something in it.
This came as a surprise to me when lived in South Texas. Texans love to talk about their love of freedom and hatred for big government and regulation, but it turned out to be the exact opposite. This is a real shame, because the people of Texas, the actual citizens, are some of the nicest, most decent people you could meet. But decades of unabashed corruption and gerrymandering have completely destroyed anything like true representation. Only recently has this been changing a little bit, because the energy industry in Texas is slowly losing it's mojo.
They've covered in up using Koch Brothers money and energy industry wealth, but if you look closely, you quickly learn that Texas state politicians are so corrupt it would make a Chicago alderman blush.
You are welcome on my lawn.
Fuck you. Create some fucking jobs!
Ah, you hate that your anti-Tesla attitude is like all your criticism, devoid of value.
Try spreading some bribes around like a REAL Amurrican you fag!
"But the government created car dealership lobby in Texas is paying him great money to be their bitch."
FTFY
Look into the history; state governments imposed the dealership regime. This is the system your ancestors created to control the power of corporations in their states.
Regulation has costs. That's an important lesson to learn as you mature and set aside the kneejerk instincts with which you were trained.
The lesson is that if you allow your politicians to be bought, corporations will exploit them to their own benefit & will exclude competition.
There is not much of money in servicing the electric cars. Brake, suspension, collision repairs... Tesla should simply out source all its servicing to national chains like NTB or Pep Boys. It will save itself from the service hell. After manufacturing hell and delivery hell, it is approaching service hell.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
Why should we be upset about this? What perspectives are there to consider where a dealer is beneficial?
My parent's garage in the UK has a 7 foot hole dug in the floor with planks over it, to enable repairs for cars. It was there when they bought the house, 45 years ago.
Ah yes, Texas, the contender for the lowest "quality of life" stats in nearly every category.
Just cruising through this digital world at 33 1/3 rpm...
Most of those jobs can be done by a mobile mechanic though the suspension repair may need a trip to the alignment shop at the end.
Source, I've done most of them at home with a jack and jack stands.
For tires, there are fully equipped tire trucks and that is the way big trucks often get their tires fixed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
He is no more at risk with an auto repair tech than he is with a plumber, appliance repair, HVAC repair, etc.
Ken
I don't even know why you bother commenting any more. You're as much of a joke these days as APK.
A law like this may also affect Right to Repair and knock down makers of farm and construction equipment like Caterpillar and John Deere who have been trying to hold a monopoly on servicing their own brands of equipment.
Tesla mobile service is awesome. They come to you and fix the car. Since Teslas don't need any routine maintenance (no oil change, tuneups, etc.), you only need service when something breaks. Again, since the cars are so simple (electric motor, big battery) there's not much to go wrong.
In 75,000 miles, I've only needed service twice. Once for water in a tail light and once for a door handle repair. Mobile service came and fixed the door handle. Fast and easy. (Tail light was repaired under warranty before mobile service was available.)
Auto dealers are pissed at Tesla because EVs don't need any of their overpriced service. So happy I don't have to go to the dealer for oil change, etc.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
And how many states are enforcing those laws against Tesla? That's the only thing relevant here, and Texas is the only state making noises about blocking not just sales, but repairs.
You are proud of the fact that you fucked up your state so hard that people are fleeing it in enough numbers to change Texas? I am sure you have all sorts of cherry picked examples how things are great in Ca, but at the end of the day, the numbers don't lie. The high taxes, silly legislation, PC police are making it unlivable. If it was paradise, your numbers would not be falling. I am also looking at you NY
...... Oh yeah, parasite. Clean up your own mess and leave other states alone. Please.
Remind me, what is the word for creatures that take a vibrant coast and consume it from within, then move on to another host.
"Liberalism is a very noble idea, currently controlled by some very bad people. Be sure you do not get the two confused.
Texas - as Red and GOP as you can get.... Isn't is interesting that the GOP is constantly screaming how the open market can solve all problems and "Government IS the problem!". Yet, when an new idea threatens any cashflow to the existing oligarchy, the first thing the GOP does is to kill it with "Government IS the Problem" regulation. Hypocritical fuck wads.
And of course, to both you and the parent poster, everyone that has mobile service done -- has space for these things, or already has these things.
Examples:
- I've lived in an apartment building, where any work on your car was prohibited and in the lease
- some houses literally have a driveway too slanted to allow for any reasonable shoring/jacking up of a car. Try it on a gravel driveway with a large incline.
And for every "But...", there are more examples to replace the ones listed above.
Thing is, and this is what I don't really get, Tesla is getting a free pass here. For example, I live in Canada -- and there is no way someone is going to be jacking up a car on an icy street, at -40C, to replace struts or what not for hours of work. Just absolutely not going to happen.
And worse, the nearest repair centres are hours and hours away by car... if your broken car can even get there.
People have approached Tesla, trying to get them to partner with 3rd parties for repairs. I personally know of one family owned garage, trying to repair Teslas in my area. Can't get parts, Tesla won't talk to him, no repair manuals available, nothing!
This is just sheer greed, and stupidity on their part. They can't even manage to keep simple stores open, but they want to run, and control all repair depots. I know of dozens, yes dozens of people in my area unwilling to buy -- because *you can't get them fixed locally*! There isn't even mobile repair locally!
It all smacks of idiocy, or perhaps absolute greed and control issues.
*I* can't even repair my own car?! People on /. have been complaining *forever* about closed firmwares on cars, about inability to repair tractors, on and on.. yet I can't get repair docs for my car? I can't easily get parts?
WHY?
Tesla does NOT have the fiscal might to open their own repair centres. Again, they can't even open their own stores. They NEED to allow third parties to repair vehicles. They NEED to sell *all* parts openly, they NEED to sell repair manuals, software, etc.
Until now, they've been a "special" car manufacturer. But they're moving into larger volumes. Things are going to go very badly for them, if they continue with this model.....
Tesla mobile service is awesome. They come to you and fix the car. Since Teslas don't need any routine maintenance (no oil change, tuneups, etc.), you only need service when something breaks. Again, since the cars are so simple (electric motor, big battery) there's not much to go wrong.
In 75,000 miles, I've only needed service twice. Once for water in a tail light and once for a door handle repair. Mobile service came and fixed the door handle. Fast and easy. (Tail light was repaired under warranty before mobile service was available.)
Auto dealers are pissed at Tesla because EVs don't need any of their overpriced service. So happy I don't have to go to the dealer for oil change, etc.
In my experience modern ICE cars don't suffer a lot of severe powertrain related breakdowns. More than 50% of repairs is stuff that would impact an electric car the same: Tie-rod ends, struts, etc.
Meanwhile Tesla owners seems to have a lot of warranty claims for door handles (WTF? How can these break?) and "Drive Units" (AKA complete powertrain). Teslas actually have a poor reliability rating.
Don't get me wrong, as a nerd I like electric cars. Tesla has made very interesting models, and really pushed range. I'm also perfectly fine with Tesla trying to "disrupt" the dealership model, however there seems to be a reality-distortion-field around them.
Also, I'm a fan of right to repair. Tesla doesn't seem like they are. Third-party repairs? LOL.
One problem and i'm no expert in writing laws, but there is a bit of a problem they don't define what a nonfranchised dealership is, they define a franchised dealership, which has a or statement it. Not one could argue the law is value at best. This would also be making companies like https://aevgo.com/buy-now/ decide to leave the state. Let's face it there is nothing texas can do to stop them, it was a out of state same and since the financal tranaction crosses statelines texas has no juristriction.
It may or may not be Tesla, but plug-in electric vehicles are the future of transportation, and fighting against it is pointless.
They are all about big government... until the government fucks them over. Then they are all about states rights... except in conservative states... where we obviously need big government.
Does this become clearer now?
As an aside... PLEASE run fake-Hispanic Beto and idiot girl in 2028. That will be the end of the Marxists and similar assorted trash for a generation.
When was the last time you saw an appliance repaired?
Modern ICE cars do need oil changes and have finicky emission systems which require regular maintenance.
Teslas really don't need any routine maintenance. Even brakes seem to last forever because of regen.
The early production of the door handle retraction mechanism had a weak pivot gear which broke. The replacement is much stronger. Same with the early "drivetrain failure" which was just a "milling sound" due to lack of lubrication in early production models. The whole drivetrain can be dropped by removing about 4 bolts so the easiest thing to do was exchange them and send them back to the factory for rebuild. My car (a 2015) fortunately hasn't had that problem.
The reality is that the cars are very reliable and people have driven them hundreds of thousands of miles with very little maintenance or repair. Even the batteries are proving to be be solid with less than 10% degradation over 100,000 miles so they should last a lot longer than an ICE car.
Tesla has loosened up their policy on parts so anyone can buy any replacement part and shop manuals and of course there are salvage parts available so anyone could open up a Tesla repair shop. Problem is that they don't need much in the way of maintenance and repair so not much of a market.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
It is just like building in a tent: a stupid idea that is needed because you need to be "Agile" (a.k.a haven't thought about things completely ahead of time). Tesla is moronic.
Wait, what? You think it matters if a building has soft walls, instead of hard walls?
Like some magical God of Snobbishness is going to cause your pants to fall down while you try to work, because the building is a mere tent. Or something something. You thought that you thought Tesla is moronic, but your trollish subconscious was merely demonstrating agility.
There is a waiting list to buy the cars. Your friends who insist they don't want things they can't afford or don't want anyways, doesn't even have the potential to be a loss in demand for them. You present it as if it is some mistake on their part. I know it is natural for you to feel you are important, and your friends are important, but you're not.
Other people, who do know how electricity works, do repair Teslas on their own. If you don't know how to do it, it makes sense they don't want to spend their time teaching you. They're trying to scale up production still. It also makes sense that they don't want to sell their parts retail; they're a new company, the parts frequently change, and their competitors would love to get ahold of the parts without having to buy the whole car; and then also get the updated parts whenever they come out and immediately see what to improve in their own designs. That just won't make sense for Tesla until they're one of the top car companies and are battling for even the low-margin sales.
You wave your hands and say things will go badly for them, and yet, their strategy is different than what you want in exactly the ways that they need it to be to have success. ;)
Too bad you don't have machine shops or electronics in Canada, then you could repair a modern car.
Meanwhile Tesla owners seems to have a lot of warranty claims for door handles (WTF? How can these break?) and "Drive Units" (AKA complete powertrain). Teslas actually have a poor reliability rating.
My brother's wife's car has had 4 door handles break on it. We think it is down to a combination of that particular model having weak/cheap handles, and my brother having kids that yank with all their strength on the door handle, like they think that that will overwhelm the door being locked before mom has the chance to hit the unlock all button.
And no, it isn't a Tesla.
I don't read AC A human right
I have 2009 Sonata which I drive every day. Aside from twice a year oil change, which I do myself the car hardly needed anything done. Same as my wife's 2008 Camry. I keep a log of every work item that I perform on the car. So far that log has 44 entries in 10 years. That includes any and all work done on my car, including tire changes and rotations. Somehow I doubt that your Tesla did not need new tires after 75K miles.
My point is that conventional cars are extremely reliable if maintained properly. I only changed spark plugs once after over 100K, and still on original brakes and I serviced them myself. Electric cars need brakes just like any other car, they need wheel alignment, etc. I also watched youtube channel of the guy who rebuilds teslas and that car has complex refrigeration system to keep battery at the right temperature.
Over all Tesla reliability is far lower than that of Toyota or Honda, at least according to Consumer reports.
Fuck the car dealers. Let them fucking choke on their own bullshit.
Model 3. It recently got damaged by a piece of debris, I made an appointment at the local Tesla repair center. On that day which was about two weeks from the accident, drove it down there at 8am - they replaced the passenger door, front right fender, and front bumper. It cost me ~$2000. I picked it up the same day at 5pm.
Thank God our legislators aren't of the same mindset as those in Texas.
Shut up homo.
but now dealers are even going after Tesla's right to service its cars.
what about the customer right to get their car serviced through someone of their choosing? i thought capitalist america was ostensibly all about customer choice?
That may be true for ICE vehicles, but fact of the matter is my car I bought in 2012. It has spent less time in the shop in the nearly 7 years I've owned it than my co-workers model 3 he got in January.
Modern ICE cars do need oil changes and have finicky emission systems which require regular maintenance.
If by "regular" you mean replacing oxygen sensors about every 200k miles and the catalytic convertor after 300k? The only time I had an issue with emissions it was a simple leak that was easily fixed in an exhaust shop for less than $100.
Where are the laws that would protect the consumer from local car dealerships and repair shops.
I actually would prefer that when I need service, the car company can come and pickup my car and replace it with a loaner and ship it back to the factory to be properly refurbished... not simply repaired.
Consider if Tesla were to build an assembly line that could disassemble 80% of the vehicle and perform full maintenance including changing bushings, replace capacitors, etc... and then reassemble the vehicle. It should be possible to build such an assembly line that could process many vehicles per hour.
When the car is in service, it would even be possible to offer upgrades such as newer computers and better sensors.
This assembly line would be huge and would require a substantial location.
With the extremely high environmental cost of producing a car like a Tesla, it makes a huge amount of sense to keep these cars driving for as long as possible. Instead of thinking in terms of 10-15 years, anything that can be done to extend their lifespans to 30+ years should be highly encouraged.
Let's also point out that by centralizing the service, it means that large companies can be forced to be held accountable for managing the waste. Smaller firms like local dealerships and repair shops don't have the infrastructure or the means to participate within such an infrastructure to manage the lifecycle of a modern vehicle and its components.
But, I suppose if you're in Texas, there's no such thing as global warming or waste management problems. Whenever they throw away single use plastics or used tires, they automatically become fairy dust and happiness for all the world to share.
A modern ICE car needs an oil change every 30000km or 18000miles or so. As for your regular maintenance on emissions ... never seen it. It's also not listed in the recommended maintenance manual from my car.
If you drive it a lot then every few years you may need timing belt done, and every few years spark plugs swapped and injectors checked (though with modern fuels that's also turning into a pointless activity). Otherwise, there really isn't much maintenance in a modern ICE car at all.
*Note that these recommendations should not be applied to Range Rovers which should be completely dismantled and rebuilt every 5000km or breakdown, whichever comes first.
Eliminating the middle man, never as simple as it sounds. About 50% of the human race is middlemen and they don't take kindly to being eliminated.
I have no fondness for Tesla or the "electric car revolution", but car dealers should not be the ones deciding the future either. In fact, the dealership model (in the US) is to make money with volume - which mean cheap, under-optioned and option-packaged cars. This means that unless you are very very motivated, you can't buy a vehicle that is best for you. Dealers can move cheap cars the fastest - they source them with pre-packaged options (e.g. if you want active lane departure prevention, you have to get the top of line model with nappa leather, or go without), and attach the most attractive financing to them. This is why the European car market is so much more diverse, but also more expensive. With the volume of cars sold in the US, dealers can make money selling nicer cars with a la carte options too, but it is more work for them.
Look around you. Look at the sea of mediocrity on the American roads - SUVs barely different from each other except for their hood ornaments, differentiated basically by size from mere super-size to megaladon. Insipid inefficient power-trains. People buying expensive name brands with the barely more options than air-conditioning. The dealership model did this.
Don't buy mediocre junk. Spend a little more and don't settle, maybe it means you have to special order (or buy direct from manufacturer if possible). But you won't be looking again in a couple of years because you couldn't live with the compromises that you'd convinced yourself are worth making to drive with something off the dealership lot today.
The Texas Education Board sets national standards, in effect, for education, and I cannot think of any overreach California does, except for vehicle emissions, and those are only a net good for the public. Yet somehow you whinge about the blue state of California you disagree with for their "overreach" yet ignore the red state of Texas for ACTUAL OVERREACH.
You must be republican.
No, Calif isn't being fucked up. Note how wildfires are not caused by state government (and what happened to states rights?), and how losing a home and seeing the risk of repeat increase, you decide to leave is nothing to do with the state laws.
Not forgetting that it's mostly the rural places in Calif. and those vote republican.
Now, lets look at Texas.
Massively increasing windpower renewable use. Very much a blue state thing, at least according to republicans. Their education board effectively sets educational standards nationwide, whilst the only equivalent Calif has is emissions standards, which is only a net benefit for the public anyway, the only ones it hurts are the manufacturers who would prefer to scrimp and shortcut and pocket the savings in extra profits.
So tell me how Calif is making Texas blue again?
Republican GOP is making Texas turn blue. The GOP is beholden to the raging nutbags of the far FAR right and to pander to them the party is becoming so insane and corrupt and toxic to any normal rightwinger that republican voters who cannot ideologically brig themselves to vote red are just not voting (like democrats who saw rightwinger hillary as no reason to vote blue, either, giving the nutbars one last shot at the presidency, which they only won by the generations of gerrymandering their party did).
It "needs" an oil change every year. They don't check if it NEEDS one, and it is free money for them (since they don't even have to actually change the oil), and if they check then they'll just charge you anyway, so it is entirely moot. They will also change 4 spark plugs on a 3 cylinder engine.
You're REALLY engaging in whataboutism, and whinging at slashdot for not being a procorporate shill like yourself (well, pro corporate right wing, Elon is not rightwing enough and the products are far too lefy eco greenie to be considered "right and holy" to you, so don't count as corporate).
Right to repair is orthogonal. EVEN WITH CARS, which the right to repair ideas are not about, fucking idiot. The anti-right-to-repair rhetoric is about warranty and cowboy "repairs" that then reflect badly on the brand with proclamations of "unreliable products" when some asshat idiot fucks up a self repair but it isn't reported as who repaired it but what broke down.
Tell me how Tesla could fuck it up and NOT deserve the bad press for a failed repair? Because if that isn't possible, then right to repair is irrelevant.
YOU just want to whinge at tesla, slashdot and everyone who doesn't agree with your nutbar politics.
solution is simple , give those dinosaurs a tesla to fix and live stream their faillure on facebook , this is not mecanics anymore it's code , and encrypted at that , they will have the same issue we had when they went from OBD1 unencrypted to OBD2 crypted .
What, you think Tesla isn't bonded/insured or something?
LOL
Have the dealers lobbying for this legislation demonstrated an ability to service Tesla or other EVs in sufficient volume, across the entirety of the state (or at all), subsequent to this restriction going into force?
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
It's easy to do suspension component replacement with mobile equipment, which is how most hobby mechanics and those pros without a lift or whose lift(s) are occupied get it done. A jack and jack stands are enough to R&I front and rear suspensions. Lifts are convenient but not a necessity.
Crash repairs etc would need a proper shop but it's so easy to "total' modern vehicles many wrecks will be written off, auctioned by Copart etc, and be salvaged for parts or repaired for resale rather than fixed and returned to the original owner.
It's not economic to return many damaged vehicles to their previous condition. OTOH auction buyers can and do buy multiple wrecks at leisure (they have storage lots) and repair their buys with donors. For example if a nose is damaged on the vehicle they wish to keep they'll try to find a donor hit in the rear. Swap parts, done. Used paintwork is often a better match for a used vehicle than new paint and a complete donor section has all the small parts one would otherwise have to purchase.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
Many ICE cars have issues with the emission system causing trial and error sensor replacements and an inability to get an inspection sticker at only 100,000 miles. I've seen many people fork over a grand or more to get the idiot light to shut off when it throws an emission code.
You may only change your oil every 18,000 miles but that is not what most people are advised to do. Also, you understate the need for regular maintenance and the complicated engine/emissions/transmissions having problems.
All of my ICE cars required several trips a year for routine maintenance or things that broke. Just don't have any of that with Tesla.
Yes, my Land Rover does require lots more maintenance but after redoing the seals a few times, it's just regular maintenance plus emissions parts breaking like any other ICE car.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Repubtard fallacy: blame the liberals.
Mahhhhh rights!!!!!
Just replaced the catalytic converter in my truck over 150k miles.
This is not common...at all. In my 20 years of owning a car, I've never had the door handle break. And I've owned 4 cars in this time period. All different makes and models.
They might be, but are you?? They are fixing this thing on YOUR property. Who is liable if the guy slips in your garage on an oil spot?
Most of those jobs can be done by a mobile mechanic though the suspension repair may need a trip to the alignment shop at the end.
If there were enough demand, people would start building alignment racks on trailers, too. It's not even difficult, which is how we know there's very limited demand.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
In my 20 years of owning a car, I've never had the door handle break.
It was very common on 80s through early 2000s GM vehicles. Both sides broke on my '86 IROC, all the door handles went bad on our 2000 Astro. I was able to get just the handles for the Camaro from the dealer, but not for the Astro. They had discontinued the handles alone, and wanted to sell complete mechanisms, for $1000/set. I had to go to eBay to get knockoffs, which worked fine.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You may only change your oil every 18,000 miles but that is not what most people are advised to do.
You must drive an old beater. It's not only what most people *are* advised to do, it's what their cars are programmed to advise them to do.
Also, you understate the need for regular maintenance and the complicated engine/emissions/transmissions having problems.
Maybe I just own a more reliable car than you since no part of the manufacturer's maintenance manual of my vehicle has any part of the emission systems scheduled for maintenance (though I stopped reading through it by the time I got to the 150k service, so maybe it gets done with the second timing belt). Don't get me wrong, an O2 sensor fails and the shit will go into limp mode to the garage, and cars are tested against emissions on a yearly basis here, but there's no preventative maintenance, only breakdown maintenance and my subtle dig at Range Rover was that was the only car I or any of my friends have ever had problems with their emissions systems with ... and breaks ... and accessory belt, some ECU issue, the central locking failed etc etc.
All of my ICE cars required several trips a year for routine maintenance or things that broke.
Wow! Just wow! Maybe you're unlucky in choice of car or just in general but the only thing my car is in the garage for is tire changes and oil changes, every 12-16months depending on how far I drive it. If it goes in the workshop twice a year it's because I didn't drive it enough and the maintenance cycle and roadworthy cycles go out of sync.
but after redoing the seals a few times
Yeah I wasn't joking about Range Rover :-)
Tesla is as much a tech company as they are a car company, and in the tech world for every open-source right-to-repair organization, you'll have five startups based around their new closed standards and vendor lock-ins.
Here's some actual data to prove my point. Your fantasy of no oil change, no repair ICE cars is busted.
https://electrek.co/2019/03/18...
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
THE BEST PLACE TO SOLVE YOUR FINANCIAL PROBLEMS (mrslindarobertloanfirm@gmail.com )
Hello everyone in this forum, I am Jane Robin from palm Harbor Florida 34682. USA and want to use this medium to express gratitude to Linda Robert Loan for fulfilling their promise by granting me a loan, i was stuck in a financial situation and needed to refinance and pay my bills as well as start up a Business. I tried seeking for loans from various loan firms both private and corporate organization but never with success, and most banks declined my credit request. But as God would have it, i was introduced by a friend named Mary Williams to Linda Robert Loan whom also confirmed to me that she also obtained a loan from them. In an attempt to resolve my current situation, i got in contact with the company via email and undergone the due process of obtaining a loan from the company, to my greatest surprise within 48hours just like my friend Mary, i was also granted a loan of $80,000.00; So my advise to everyone who or know someone who desires a loan, if you must contact any firm with reference to securing a loan online with low interest rate of 3% and better repayment plans/schedule, please contact Linda Robert Loan Besides, he doesn’t know that am doing this but due to the joy in me, i'm so happy and wish to let people know more about this great company whom truly give out loans, it is my prayer that GOD should bless them more as they put smiles on peoples faces. You can contact them via email on ( mrslindarobertloanfirm@gmail.com) or Text/Call 1 272 203 0459
Remember: Whatever a conservative is whining the most about, that is PRECISESLY what they are doing or want to be doing in the near future.
Guilty dogs bark and they bark loudly.
You talk like you're one of those assholes who also own a plane. The only hobbiests worse than airplane pilots are fucking cyclists. We have too many of both here on slashdot. Does it make you squirm in absolute haughty derision to know that I rebuild tesla, prius, and leaf battery packs myself? I also rebuild drill battery and laptop battery packs when I feel like it. I ain't certified in shit. I do wut i want. Is your blood pressure about to make your head pop? Shaking in your shoes and turning red yet? FUCK. OFF.
It is actually a trick question. The answer is basically "none" for rare earths. The Tesla uses a standard AC induction motor, which doesn't use permanent magnets, thus no rare earths.
The batteries use lithium and cobalt, and while scaling is an issue in that they need to expand and build new mines to meet the demand, are not rare earths. The cobalt isn't necessary either, and even the lithium could be changed out if they get something like a flow battery developed enough.
Considering most places have rolling blackouts from the demand of heaters in the winter?
Huh? Where the hell do you live, where have you lived, that you think that blackouts from heaters are normal? I've lived in half a dozen states(and about that many countries) and never experienced that. Power outages due to storms, certainly, but a grid unable to handle standard demands?
I see you don't get out much. That's ok. You do you. But please don't apply your understanding of the world to everyone else. It doesn't fit.
You do realize that this is an ad hominem fallacy, a personal attack, not a counter for my argument?
You might want to be careful with you accusations as well. I have more miles on me than 95% of people. Fact is, the average for cars in the USA is only 15k miles a year, and most people aren't exceeding 300 miles on a single trip on a monthly basis. If you only bust that a couple times a year, like my driving through two midwestern states to visit my parents, there are solid reasons to rent a vehicle anyway.
I don't read AC A human right
No oil change? No repair? Were you talking to some mythical voice in your head because you certainly weren't replying to me.
But hey sure I'll buy the fact that costs are reduced when people stop stealing mufflers.
Thank you for acknowledging that ICE cars cost more to maintain.
(You might also want to check your oil change assertions. Most manufacturers recommend 5,000 to 10,000 mile intervals. Nobody recommends 18,000 miles. You could be damaging your engine with dirty oil.)
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?