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Texas Lawmakers Want To Stop Tesla From Fixing Its Own Cars (electrek.co)
In Texas the local car dealer lobby has blocked Tesla from selling its cars directly to customers. They're using old laws meant to prevent car manufacturers from competing with their own local dealers -- but Tesla never had any local dealers!
And according to Electrek, it gets worse... Despite this issue, Texans have bought thousands of Tesla vehicles, which the automaker delivers from other states to comply with the law. Tesla has been able to service those vehicles through its own service centers, which are not subject to those same direct-sale rules, but now dealers are even going after Tesla's right to service its cars.
Quartz offers some additional coverage: At issue is a battle over money. Car dealers derive much of their revenue from selling and (especially) servicing vehicles. Tesla's direct-to-customer sales and service stations are a threat to that business model since they cut dealers out of the transaction.
And according to Electrek, it gets worse... Despite this issue, Texans have bought thousands of Tesla vehicles, which the automaker delivers from other states to comply with the law. Tesla has been able to service those vehicles through its own service centers, which are not subject to those same direct-sale rules, but now dealers are even going after Tesla's right to service its cars.
Quartz offers some additional coverage: At issue is a battle over money. Car dealers derive much of their revenue from selling and (especially) servicing vehicles. Tesla's direct-to-customer sales and service stations are a threat to that business model since they cut dealers out of the transaction.
The state which prides itself on getting big government out people lives until the people need the power of big government to kill competition.
I really like the thought of not having to take a car in for service, that someone can just come out and repair it.
One thing I've wondered is how the fix some things without a real lift - like if they need to replace some parts of the suspension. Seems like they would still have to take it to a real shop for some more advanced repairs.
Since an electric car is generally simpler. I had been wondering what kinds of repairs people were even calling in...
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
Did they already get John Deere to open up their software?
Right to repair works both ways. Every mechanic should have a right to work on Teslas if they so choose, but Tesla should also have a right to service their own cars if they choose.
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My mechanic is planning on specializing in vintage cars as the electrics start happening. He expects it'll be a pretty quick switch. He says that there will be very little to fix outside of suspensions, and occasionally brakes. Even brakes won't need as much fixing, because electric cars will probably all use regenerative braking. Electric motors, of course, last a very, very, very long time, and generally, they're so cheap that it makes more sense to replace a motor than taking the time to re-wind the coils.
I don't respond to AC's.
One: Build the damned wall at the Oklahoma and New Mexico borders. Two: Just let 'em secede.
CUR ALLOC 20195.....5804M
Right to repair works both ways. Every mechanic should have a right to work on Teslas if they so choose, but Tesla should also have a right to service their own cars if they choose.
If they're lease vehicles, then they're Tesla's cars. If they're sold vehicles, they're not Tesla's cars. Tesla is free to service all of the vehicles they actually own, but if they stand in the way of other people repairing the vehicles they've sold and therefore no longer own, then they're in the wrong.
All manufacturers of anything which is serviceable should be forced to provide the same materials they use for service to any interested party, for only a reasonable distribution fee. All manufacturers of anything which is not serviceable (i.e. glued together, and difficult to disassemble without destruction) should be responsible for a long warranty period, and for taking it back for recycling.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Nope. I had mobile repair replace my parking brakes (warranty issue) and rotate my tires. He did it in my garage with a jack. The whole point of mobile service is that while it takes the repair guy a bit more time (both in driving and in working), it saves them a ton of overhead in buildings, so it ends up being cheaper.
Nope. Mobile repair can do all sorts of work, including brakes and suspension. Yes it takes longer without a lift, but the added cost in one employee's time is offset by the reduced overhead from fewer service buildings. It also means fewer loaner cars and happier customers.
Sure, there are some things they can't do, but if they shift 75% of the work to mobile service, then they can handle four times as many cars without increasing the number of service centers. It's the simplest way they can scale their service operations as the number of cars on the road jumps.
So when them congresspeople successfully block Tesla from servicing its own cars... do they happen to know how to fix the cars themselves?
Tesla should be entitled to fix their own cars, but anyone else should be too and the training / tools / parts / software required to do it should be available at a fair price.
Tesla already complies with right to repair laws. You can buy access to all their service manuals. There's a guy who resurrects dead Teslas who has used that occasionally (but only occasionally, as the access is expensive).
One thing I've wondered is how the fix some things without a real lift - like if they need to replace some parts of the suspension. Seems like they would still have to take it to a real shop for some more advanced repairs.
Nope. Thousands of people do these repairs on their own cars in their garage or driveway. They use jacks, chain hoists, and ramps (depending on the repair). Lifting an entire car 7-feet in the air is a convenience, not a necessity.
Why are you purposely trying to confuse two completely separate concepts?
Right to Repair, and Dealers trying to protect their business models, are only very superficially similar.
Maybe you would be less confused by the response if you yourself weren't trying to muddy the issue.
The same type of laws are present in all 50 states. Most of the states have had those laws for 50+ years, with a few going back 100 years. A few stragglers joined in the last 30 years, with Texas being the last one. So those accusing Texas of doing this because of some anti-Tesla agenda should read up on history, and look into their own states' laws before throwing stones. It'll be a helluva lot more productive towards repealing these laws or updating them to reflect how cars are purchased and repaired in the 21st century.
Forget Chicago, New York, California. The state of Texas has by far the most corrupt politicians in the nation. From the governor on down to local sheriffs, they all have their hands out to someone who's only happy to put a little something in it.
This came as a surprise to me when lived in South Texas. Texans love to talk about their love of freedom and hatred for big government and regulation, but it turned out to be the exact opposite. This is a real shame, because the people of Texas, the actual citizens, are some of the nicest, most decent people you could meet. But decades of unabashed corruption and gerrymandering have completely destroyed anything like true representation. Only recently has this been changing a little bit, because the energy industry in Texas is slowly losing it's mojo.
They've covered in up using Koch Brothers money and energy industry wealth, but if you look closely, you quickly learn that Texas state politicians are so corrupt it would make a Chicago alderman blush.
You are welcome on my lawn.
There is not much of money in servicing the electric cars. Brake, suspension, collision repairs... Tesla should simply out source all its servicing to national chains like NTB or Pep Boys. It will save itself from the service hell. After manufacturing hell and delivery hell, it is approaching service hell.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
They are both government stepping in to dictate terms to people, so that the manufacturer loses and independent shops win.
- Right to repair: Small repair shops want repair business, use government to force companies to help facilitate independent repairs. Good?
- Auto dealers: Small repair shops want repair business, use government to force Tesla to use independent repairs. Bad?
Very similar. Personally, I would prefer governments didn't bully anyone unless it's absolutely necessary. Independent repair shops want to do repairs doesn't justify forcing manufacturers to help out. Independent repair shops want to repair Teslas doesn't justify enforcement against Tesla. By the same token, manufacturer wants to restrict repairs doesn't justify government intervention to help the manufacturer either.
Ah-bullshit.
https://service.teslamotors.co...
I agree with your sentiment, but considering that Tesla is the manufacturer, they should get to dictate where you can buy their vehicles. I don't believe that they should be required to offer them through dealers if they don't want to do so. If you'd argue that if a dealership wanted to obtain and then sell the vehicles through a third party, then I'd agree that Tesla should have no ground to prevent them from doing so, but I wouldn't force Tesla to do business with them directly.
I think that in the long run they'd sell more vehicles if they worked with dealers, but if they don't want to, that's their own business. I'm not a stock holder (well at least not directly, and possibly not through any fund) so I really don't care if they lose money for their own foolishness. Right now I don't think they can meet demand so they don't lose anything by not working with dealerships.
My parent's garage in the UK has a 7 foot hole dug in the floor with planks over it, to enable repairs for cars. It was there when they bought the house, 45 years ago.
Believing in the rights of individual PEOPLE to do what they like with what they've bought is one thing. I'm 100% in favor of that. You want to work on your own Tesla? Cool. Go for it.
Abuse of the legal system by one BUSINESS to force another to subsidize it... now that's something else entirely. And I'm entirely opposed to that. Your business wants to open a shop repairing Teslas? Okay. Do the work of developing the skills, building your parts supply chain, and learning the technology yourself. You want a law forcing Tesla to help you? Go fuck yourself.
Imagine all the people...
Most of those jobs can be done by a mobile mechanic though the suspension repair may need a trip to the alignment shop at the end.
Source, I've done most of them at home with a jack and jack stands.
For tires, there are fully equipped tire trucks and that is the way big trucks often get their tires fixed.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverted_totalitarianism
He is no more at risk with an auto repair tech than he is with a plumber, appliance repair, HVAC repair, etc.
Ken
That's not how I read the GP. I interpreted Gavagai80's comment as saying Tesla should have the option to offer repair services to anyone who wanted service from Tesla, not that Tesla should have the option to force all Tesla owners to get service from Tesla.
A law like this may also affect Right to Repair and knock down makers of farm and construction equipment like Caterpillar and John Deere who have been trying to hold a monopoly on servicing their own brands of equipment.
Tesla mobile service is awesome. They come to you and fix the car. Since Teslas don't need any routine maintenance (no oil change, tuneups, etc.), you only need service when something breaks. Again, since the cars are so simple (electric motor, big battery) there's not much to go wrong.
In 75,000 miles, I've only needed service twice. Once for water in a tail light and once for a door handle repair. Mobile service came and fixed the door handle. Fast and easy. (Tail light was repaired under warranty before mobile service was available.)
Auto dealers are pissed at Tesla because EVs don't need any of their overpriced service. So happy I don't have to go to the dealer for oil change, etc.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
Anybody can fix any Tesla. Anybody can buy parts. Anybody can sell parts.
(Check out Rich Rebuilds on YouTube.)
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
And how many states are enforcing those laws against Tesla? That's the only thing relevant here, and Texas is the only state making noises about blocking not just sales, but repairs.
Texas - as Red and GOP as you can get.... Isn't is interesting that the GOP is constantly screaming how the open market can solve all problems and "Government IS the problem!". Yet, when an new idea threatens any cashflow to the existing oligarchy, the first thing the GOP does is to kill it with "Government IS the Problem" regulation. Hypocritical fuck wads.
Tesla mobile service is awesome. They come to you and fix the car. Since Teslas don't need any routine maintenance (no oil change, tuneups, etc.), you only need service when something breaks. Again, since the cars are so simple (electric motor, big battery) there's not much to go wrong.
In 75,000 miles, I've only needed service twice. Once for water in a tail light and once for a door handle repair. Mobile service came and fixed the door handle. Fast and easy. (Tail light was repaired under warranty before mobile service was available.)
Auto dealers are pissed at Tesla because EVs don't need any of their overpriced service. So happy I don't have to go to the dealer for oil change, etc.
In my experience modern ICE cars don't suffer a lot of severe powertrain related breakdowns. More than 50% of repairs is stuff that would impact an electric car the same: Tie-rod ends, struts, etc.
Meanwhile Tesla owners seems to have a lot of warranty claims for door handles (WTF? How can these break?) and "Drive Units" (AKA complete powertrain). Teslas actually have a poor reliability rating.
Don't get me wrong, as a nerd I like electric cars. Tesla has made very interesting models, and really pushed range. I'm also perfectly fine with Tesla trying to "disrupt" the dealership model, however there seems to be a reality-distortion-field around them.
Also, I'm a fan of right to repair. Tesla doesn't seem like they are. Third-party repairs? LOL.
If it was paradise, your numbers would not be falling. I am also looking at you NY
I can't speak about California, but NY used to be a blue collar state. Those days are long gone. Upstate is losing population in droves because there are no opportunities there at all, and NYC is all but unlivable for anyone with an IQ less than 100. Everything I understand about California suggests it is the same there. The "blue" states have policies that are actively driving away stupid people. Other states have policies that appear more welcoming (by way of blue collar jobs), but generally guarantee that the next generation will be no better than the last. That only goes so far, and eventually all of those jobs go to automation anyway.
Just like opportunity, social mobility looks an awful lot like hard work and, in this country, politicians don't have the foresight to know what they are looking at.
I wish I had a good sig, but all the good ones are copyrighted
It may or may not be Tesla, but plug-in electric vehicles are the future of transportation, and fighting against it is pointless.
Modern ICE cars do need oil changes and have finicky emission systems which require regular maintenance.
Teslas really don't need any routine maintenance. Even brakes seem to last forever because of regen.
The early production of the door handle retraction mechanism had a weak pivot gear which broke. The replacement is much stronger. Same with the early "drivetrain failure" which was just a "milling sound" due to lack of lubrication in early production models. The whole drivetrain can be dropped by removing about 4 bolts so the easiest thing to do was exchange them and send them back to the factory for rebuild. My car (a 2015) fortunately hasn't had that problem.
The reality is that the cars are very reliable and people have driven them hundreds of thousands of miles with very little maintenance or repair. Even the batteries are proving to be be solid with less than 10% degradation over 100,000 miles so they should last a lot longer than an ICE car.
Tesla has loosened up their policy on parts so anyone can buy any replacement part and shop manuals and of course there are salvage parts available so anyone could open up a Tesla repair shop. Problem is that they don't need much in the way of maintenance and repair so not much of a market.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
It is just like building in a tent: a stupid idea that is needed because you need to be "Agile" (a.k.a haven't thought about things completely ahead of time). Tesla is moronic.
Wait, what? You think it matters if a building has soft walls, instead of hard walls?
Like some magical God of Snobbishness is going to cause your pants to fall down while you try to work, because the building is a mere tent. Or something something. You thought that you thought Tesla is moronic, but your trollish subconscious was merely demonstrating agility.
There is a waiting list to buy the cars. Your friends who insist they don't want things they can't afford or don't want anyways, doesn't even have the potential to be a loss in demand for them. You present it as if it is some mistake on their part. I know it is natural for you to feel you are important, and your friends are important, but you're not.
Other people, who do know how electricity works, do repair Teslas on their own. If you don't know how to do it, it makes sense they don't want to spend their time teaching you. They're trying to scale up production still. It also makes sense that they don't want to sell their parts retail; they're a new company, the parts frequently change, and their competitors would love to get ahold of the parts without having to buy the whole car; and then also get the updated parts whenever they come out and immediately see what to improve in their own designs. That just won't make sense for Tesla until they're one of the top car companies and are battling for even the low-margin sales.
You wave your hands and say things will go badly for them, and yet, their strategy is different than what you want in exactly the ways that they need it to be to have success. ;)
Too bad you don't have machine shops or electronics in Canada, then you could repair a modern car.
Meanwhile Tesla owners seems to have a lot of warranty claims for door handles (WTF? How can these break?) and "Drive Units" (AKA complete powertrain). Teslas actually have a poor reliability rating.
My brother's wife's car has had 4 door handles break on it. We think it is down to a combination of that particular model having weak/cheap handles, and my brother having kids that yank with all their strength on the door handle, like they think that that will overwhelm the door being locked before mom has the chance to hit the unlock all button.
And no, it isn't a Tesla.
I don't read AC A human right
Do Slashdot people believe in the right to repair? Or should Tesla get to do all repairs on Teslas?
Let us know.
Tesla should not be restricted in repairing whatever cars people want them to repair, including cars they manufactured.
People should have the right to repair cars that they buy, including being protecting from being sued for doing it. Manufacturers shouldn't be allowed to take steps to stop people from repairing their cars, like including parts that self-destruct or stop working when you try to repair them. But at the same time, they shouldn't be forced to sell people spare parts. If they want to sell spare parts, that is up to them. But if the parts are patented, they should be required to license the patents to companies making aftermarket parts on a FRAND basis.
That's body shops only. Notice all their links are for making the car safe, rendering the electrical aspects inert so body shops can work. If you follow the link pertaining to battery damage for example, it says right there that only Tesla can repair the battery pack.
ie, Tesla will let you fix scratches and dents, but that's about it.
For all intensive purposes, "whom" is no longer a word. That begs the question, "who cares"?
but now dealers are even going after Tesla's right to service its cars.
what about the customer right to get their car serviced through someone of their choosing? i thought capitalist america was ostensibly all about customer choice?
Access to a service manual is not the same as Tesla selling them parts. Also Tesla is rather notorious for disabling services on people's cars remotely with no warning (arguably illegal) whenever they perform a fix Tesla feels should have been done by them. Then charging them what they would have charged plus a recertification fee. Essentially holding their car hostage.
I've also seen several instances where Tesla's sold pre-owned cars but didn't have the titles, leaving owners unable to drive their cars after their temporary tags expire. Something a dealership routinely takes care of for a customer.
Do the work of developing the skills, building your parts supply chain, and learning the technology yourself. You want a law forcing Tesla to help you? Go fuck yourself.
Except when Tesla is the only source of service manuals, and Tesla is the only source of parts, and Tesla remote kills your car because you didn't have them repair it. Then what's left except turning to your lawyers or your legislature.
Where are the laws that would protect the consumer from local car dealerships and repair shops.
I actually would prefer that when I need service, the car company can come and pickup my car and replace it with a loaner and ship it back to the factory to be properly refurbished... not simply repaired.
Consider if Tesla were to build an assembly line that could disassemble 80% of the vehicle and perform full maintenance including changing bushings, replace capacitors, etc... and then reassemble the vehicle. It should be possible to build such an assembly line that could process many vehicles per hour.
When the car is in service, it would even be possible to offer upgrades such as newer computers and better sensors.
This assembly line would be huge and would require a substantial location.
With the extremely high environmental cost of producing a car like a Tesla, it makes a huge amount of sense to keep these cars driving for as long as possible. Instead of thinking in terms of 10-15 years, anything that can be done to extend their lifespans to 30+ years should be highly encouraged.
Let's also point out that by centralizing the service, it means that large companies can be forced to be held accountable for managing the waste. Smaller firms like local dealerships and repair shops don't have the infrastructure or the means to participate within such an infrastructure to manage the lifecycle of a modern vehicle and its components.
But, I suppose if you're in Texas, there's no such thing as global warming or waste management problems. Whenever they throw away single use plastics or used tires, they automatically become fairy dust and happiness for all the world to share.
A modern ICE car needs an oil change every 30000km or 18000miles or so. As for your regular maintenance on emissions ... never seen it. It's also not listed in the recommended maintenance manual from my car.
If you drive it a lot then every few years you may need timing belt done, and every few years spark plugs swapped and injectors checked (though with modern fuels that's also turning into a pointless activity). Otherwise, there really isn't much maintenance in a modern ICE car at all.
*Note that these recommendations should not be applied to Range Rovers which should be completely dismantled and rebuilt every 5000km or breakdown, whichever comes first.
Eliminating the middle man, never as simple as it sounds. About 50% of the human race is middlemen and they don't take kindly to being eliminated.
I have no fondness for Tesla or the "electric car revolution", but car dealers should not be the ones deciding the future either. In fact, the dealership model (in the US) is to make money with volume - which mean cheap, under-optioned and option-packaged cars. This means that unless you are very very motivated, you can't buy a vehicle that is best for you. Dealers can move cheap cars the fastest - they source them with pre-packaged options (e.g. if you want active lane departure prevention, you have to get the top of line model with nappa leather, or go without), and attach the most attractive financing to them. This is why the European car market is so much more diverse, but also more expensive. With the volume of cars sold in the US, dealers can make money selling nicer cars with a la carte options too, but it is more work for them.
Look around you. Look at the sea of mediocrity on the American roads - SUVs barely different from each other except for their hood ornaments, differentiated basically by size from mere super-size to megaladon. Insipid inefficient power-trains. People buying expensive name brands with the barely more options than air-conditioning. The dealership model did this.
Don't buy mediocre junk. Spend a little more and don't settle, maybe it means you have to special order (or buy direct from manufacturer if possible). But you won't be looking again in a couple of years because you couldn't live with the compromises that you'd convinced yourself are worth making to drive with something off the dealership lot today.
The dealer makes money. Repairs have a high profit margin, and the dealer would like a cut of every car sold.
Why should we be upset? Well, probably not mad at Tesla over this. I'd expect people should be upset by the rent-seeking of the dealers.
Hey now, don't knock Alabama of their perch.
What, you think Tesla isn't bonded/insured or something?
LOL
Have the dealers lobbying for this legislation demonstrated an ability to service Tesla or other EVs in sufficient volume, across the entirety of the state (or at all), subsequent to this restriction going into force?
--Got Lists? | Top 95 Star Wars Line
It's easy to do suspension component replacement with mobile equipment, which is how most hobby mechanics and those pros without a lift or whose lift(s) are occupied get it done. A jack and jack stands are enough to R&I front and rear suspensions. Lifts are convenient but not a necessity.
Crash repairs etc would need a proper shop but it's so easy to "total' modern vehicles many wrecks will be written off, auctioned by Copart etc, and be salvaged for parts or repaired for resale rather than fixed and returned to the original owner.
It's not economic to return many damaged vehicles to their previous condition. OTOH auction buyers can and do buy multiple wrecks at leisure (they have storage lots) and repair their buys with donors. For example if a nose is damaged on the vehicle they wish to keep they'll try to find a donor hit in the rear. Swap parts, done. Used paintwork is often a better match for a used vehicle than new paint and a complete donor section has all the small parts one would otherwise have to purchase.
"This post is an artistic work of fiction and falsehood. Only a fool would take anything posted here as fact."
You may only change your oil every 18,000 miles but that is not what most people are advised to do. Also, you understate the need for regular maintenance and the complicated engine/emissions/transmissions having problems.
All of my ICE cars required several trips a year for routine maintenance or things that broke. Just don't have any of that with Tesla.
Yes, my Land Rover does require lots more maintenance but after redoing the seals a few times, it's just regular maintenance plus emissions parts breaking like any other ICE car.
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
I interpreted Gavagai80's comment as saying Tesla should have the option to offer repair services to anyone who wanted service from Tesla, not that Tesla should have the option to force all Tesla owners to get service from Tesla.
And yet, Tesla is attempting to do both.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
Most of those jobs can be done by a mobile mechanic though the suspension repair may need a trip to the alignment shop at the end.
If there were enough demand, people would start building alignment racks on trailers, too. It's not even difficult, which is how we know there's very limited demand.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
In my 20 years of owning a car, I've never had the door handle break.
It was very common on 80s through early 2000s GM vehicles. Both sides broke on my '86 IROC, all the door handles went bad on our 2000 Astro. I was able to get just the handles for the Camaro from the dealer, but not for the Astro. They had discontinued the handles alone, and wanted to sell complete mechanisms, for $1000/set. I had to go to eBay to get knockoffs, which worked fine.
"You're right," Fisheye says. "I should have set it on 'whip' or 'chop.'"
You may only change your oil every 18,000 miles but that is not what most people are advised to do.
You must drive an old beater. It's not only what most people *are* advised to do, it's what their cars are programmed to advise them to do.
Also, you understate the need for regular maintenance and the complicated engine/emissions/transmissions having problems.
Maybe I just own a more reliable car than you since no part of the manufacturer's maintenance manual of my vehicle has any part of the emission systems scheduled for maintenance (though I stopped reading through it by the time I got to the 150k service, so maybe it gets done with the second timing belt). Don't get me wrong, an O2 sensor fails and the shit will go into limp mode to the garage, and cars are tested against emissions on a yearly basis here, but there's no preventative maintenance, only breakdown maintenance and my subtle dig at Range Rover was that was the only car I or any of my friends have ever had problems with their emissions systems with ... and breaks ... and accessory belt, some ECU issue, the central locking failed etc etc.
All of my ICE cars required several trips a year for routine maintenance or things that broke.
Wow! Just wow! Maybe you're unlucky in choice of car or just in general but the only thing my car is in the garage for is tire changes and oil changes, every 12-16months depending on how far I drive it. If it goes in the workshop twice a year it's because I didn't drive it enough and the maintenance cycle and roadworthy cycles go out of sync.
but after redoing the seals a few times
Yeah I wasn't joking about Range Rover :-)
Tesla is as much a tech company as they are a car company, and in the tech world for every open-source right-to-repair organization, you'll have five startups based around their new closed standards and vendor lock-ins.
Here's some actual data to prove my point. Your fantasy of no oil change, no repair ICE cars is busted.
https://electrek.co/2019/03/18...
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?
It is actually a trick question. The answer is basically "none" for rare earths. The Tesla uses a standard AC induction motor, which doesn't use permanent magnets, thus no rare earths.
The batteries use lithium and cobalt, and while scaling is an issue in that they need to expand and build new mines to meet the demand, are not rare earths. The cobalt isn't necessary either, and even the lithium could be changed out if they get something like a flow battery developed enough.
Considering most places have rolling blackouts from the demand of heaters in the winter?
Huh? Where the hell do you live, where have you lived, that you think that blackouts from heaters are normal? I've lived in half a dozen states(and about that many countries) and never experienced that. Power outages due to storms, certainly, but a grid unable to handle standard demands?
I see you don't get out much. That's ok. You do you. But please don't apply your understanding of the world to everyone else. It doesn't fit.
You do realize that this is an ad hominem fallacy, a personal attack, not a counter for my argument?
You might want to be careful with you accusations as well. I have more miles on me than 95% of people. Fact is, the average for cars in the USA is only 15k miles a year, and most people aren't exceeding 300 miles on a single trip on a monthly basis. If you only bust that a couple times a year, like my driving through two midwestern states to visit my parents, there are solid reasons to rent a vehicle anyway.
I don't read AC A human right
No oil change? No repair? Were you talking to some mythical voice in your head because you certainly weren't replying to me.
But hey sure I'll buy the fact that costs are reduced when people stop stealing mufflers.
Thank you for acknowledging that ICE cars cost more to maintain.
(You might also want to check your oil change assertions. Most manufacturers recommend 5,000 to 10,000 mile intervals. Nobody recommends 18,000 miles. You could be damaging your engine with dirty oil.)
I don't read your sig. Why are you reading mine?