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Trump Blockade of Huawei Fizzles In European 5G Rollout (bloomberg.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: Last summer, the Trump administration started a campaign to convince its European allies to bar China's Huawei from their telecom networks. Bolstered by the success of similar efforts in Australia and New Zealand, the White House sent envoys to European capitals with warnings that Huawei's gear would open a backdoor for Chinese spies. The U.S. even threatened to cut off intelligence sharing if Europe ignored its advice. So far, not a single European country has banned Huawei. Europe, caught in the middle of the U.S.-China trade war, has sought to balance concerns about growing Chinese influence with a desire to increase business with the region's second-biggest trading partner. With no ban in the works, Huawei is in the running for contracts to build 5G phone networks, the ultra-fast wireless technology Europe's leaders hope will fuel the growth of a data-based economy.
The U.K.'s spy chief has indicated that a ban on Huawei is unlikely, citing a lack of viable alternatives to upgrade British telecom networks. Italy's government has dismissed the U.S. warnings as it seeks to boost trade with China. In Germany, authorities have proposed tighter security rules for data networks rather than outlawing Huawei. France is doing the same after initially flirting with the idea of restrictions on Huawei. Governments listened to phone companies such as Vodafone Group Plc, Deutsche Telekom AG, and Orange SA, who warned that sidelining Huawei would delay the implementation of 5G by years and add billions of euros in cost. While carriers can also buy equipment from the likes of Ericsson AB, Nokia Oyj, and Samsung Electronics Co., industry consultants say Huawei's quality is high, and the company last year filed 5,405 global patents, more than double the filings by Ericsson and Nokia combined. And some European lawmakers have been wary of Cisco Systems Inc., Huawei's American rival, since Edward Snowden leaked documents revealing the National Security Agency's use of U.S.-made telecom equipment for spying.
The U.K.'s spy chief has indicated that a ban on Huawei is unlikely, citing a lack of viable alternatives to upgrade British telecom networks. Italy's government has dismissed the U.S. warnings as it seeks to boost trade with China. In Germany, authorities have proposed tighter security rules for data networks rather than outlawing Huawei. France is doing the same after initially flirting with the idea of restrictions on Huawei. Governments listened to phone companies such as Vodafone Group Plc, Deutsche Telekom AG, and Orange SA, who warned that sidelining Huawei would delay the implementation of 5G by years and add billions of euros in cost. While carriers can also buy equipment from the likes of Ericsson AB, Nokia Oyj, and Samsung Electronics Co., industry consultants say Huawei's quality is high, and the company last year filed 5,405 global patents, more than double the filings by Ericsson and Nokia combined. And some European lawmakers have been wary of Cisco Systems Inc., Huawei's American rival, since Edward Snowden leaked documents revealing the National Security Agency's use of U.S.-made telecom equipment for spying.
In some European circles, this threat from the Trump administration may have seemed to resemble 50 lashes with a wet noodle.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
Time for the US to find new friends it can trust to keep secrets and who will support the USA.
We already have them - Russia and North Korea.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
Trump doesn't get basic shit. You don't threaten people to get what you want except as a last resort - not a first resort. This is why he sucks at "dealmaking" and has basically failed at every opportunity to do so.
This was a very winnable objective.
We know Cisco devices cant be trusted because the US government has already been caught installing backdoor spyware into Cisco devices at customs. We should ban Cisco as well as Huawei.
USA: Caught and proven to be bugging US-made routers for spying.
China: Accused of but not proven to be bugging China-made routers for spying.
Remind me again why we shouldn't trust Chinese hardware?
Cisco couldn't compete on a level playing field with Huawei, so they asked the Government to help them out.
The UK allows the US to operate military bases on its territory. That's a gift that is worth a pile of gold.
The US is revealed to operate illegal spying operations on its allies.
What's all this "full Communist" nonsense? I think your view of world politics might be a bit off-balance - perhaps read some current affairs? Or just increase the soma dosage...?
When the USA turns off the flow of raw real time data what will EU nations do?
Get a copy of it from the Chinese ?
Well, except to the US domestically. But spying-wise, all telco equipment is compromised, and the US, having no honor whatsoever, is not above spying on allies. Those "allies" do remember that now and are reacting accordingly. Also, there is talk about removing the US ambassador from Germany, because some feel he is behaving inappropriately by directly threatening allies.
As a security expert, the whole thing is basically a non-issue. You always need real end-to-end encryption with no "backdoors" or any such totalitarian and moronic nonsense for a connection to be secure. But as soon as you have that, you do not care about a compromised network, as long as it still transmits your data. Other things, like location, are compromised anyways, no matter who delivers the equipment, because the network tech is not really secure against that anyways. The solution here is to know that and simply switch off your phone when you do not want to be tracked. As extra protection, have a removable battery, something I insist anyways. (No, I will not buy your crap design with planned obsolescence by not removable battery. Does not matter what shiny new feature it has or how great it looks. Go defraud somebody else.)
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
The US does not have friends. It takes honor and integrity for that and the US does not even understand that concept. The US has vassals. Looks like Europe finally found some backbone, because they do not actually _need_ US support for anything. They can screw up things all by themselves. (Judging from all that really stupid Internet legislation recently.) And they can buy cheaper and better Chinese equipment, because the security of that equipment is not actually a factor as it all is compromised. If we ever see a major war (I really, really do hope not...) all that shiny infrastructure will stop working.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
The BND needs the flow of US data everyday.
Can you clarify this? Exactly who is going to attack Germany if they miss a day of American supplied data?
It will have no effect. Or maybe it will have a positive effect because all that moronic, incompetent focus on "data" has yet to catch a single terrorist before the act. And the main purpose of that data, spying on innocent citizens, is basically a slow road to fascism, to the less that works, the better.
Hence I think it would be hugely preferably to not have that data, even if it was completely free. Also note that a lot of the data-taps are on EU (or British) soil, would be a shame if something were to happen to them...
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Or as Melania calls it: "date night". :-)
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
There's little doubt, as your post implies, that Western Europe is by design beholden to the Americans for access to the most current information surreptitiously acquired by our usually efficient TLAs.
Now, let's say you're the nation who embraced the job of world's policeman (I know, cavalierly risking gender bias accusations) since the end of WWII.
Strategically, do you now abandon those generational alliances because European leaders mock your fearless leader, who is, quite fairly, a rather easy target?.?.?.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
Basically everybody does that. There are countless examples of the US doing that as well. It does not matter. "Trade secrets" are valid only for a few years, even if empires in the downward cycle (like the US) often try to artificially change that. Fact is that after a few years, the competition can do it as well and better. Or do you really think Huawei would sell enterprise products they do not understand and hence cannot support? Think again. Copying the designs is not actually a sign that they cannot do it themselves (even though non-engineers and bad engineers often take it for one), it is just a sign that the original design was pretty much finished and that another, independent design process would have arrived pretty much at the same end-point. So why not make it a standard ans make it the same end-product, so customers can directly replace one with the other without having to analyze the differences in detail? And at that time, it is not a trade secret, it is the state-of-the-art. Mass-produced things, like screws, connectors, etc. are standardized at that point and enter the public domain. It is the only sane thing to do.
The utterly hilarious thing is that the US, that "heaven of capitalism" suddenly becomes protectionist and opposed to a free market when they are not the ones doing it to others, but somebody does it to them. Talk about double-standards and ignoring reality.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
You really do not understand how that works. You think you can tap an internet cable without it actually running over those bases? That cable will just find a new route. Or/and it may get link encryption. The whole threat is utterly empty and just a show for people without a clue.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Germany thanks the USA by going Communist.
Having universal health care does not make you communist, moron.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Most of these posts read like they're from the 1950's era UnAmerican Activities Committee
FULL COMMUNISM! FULL COMMUNISM! FULL COMMUNISM!
AMERICA PROTECTS! YOU OWE US!
Nobody quite does propaganda like the United States, but it only really works on Americans who have never traveled outside the awful Midwestern shithole state they live in.
So, given the state of US cellular networks and coverage and their old, sick, narcolepic turtle pace in expanding, maybe they'd be quite happy to see the rest of the world get delayed in 5G deployments - maybe then US networks wouldn't look that bad and and the other hand they could blame their slow pace and lacking coverage on the Chinese, oh my:)
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
The EU has taken careful note of how the US treats New Zealand, Japan, Poland.
New Zealand: no defensive alliance with the US, not covered by the US nuclear umbrella. No free trade agreement, since Trump torpedoed TPPA. No actionable intelligence provided to prevent terrorist attack. Thanks a lot, USA.
Japan: not consulted in US negotiations with North Korea. Indirectly and directly targeted in trade war. Thanks a lot, USA.
Poland: still reeling from US rapprochement with Russia, now told (by Trump) that US no longer regards NATO as an absolute commitment. Targeted (as part of EU) by US trade war. Thanks a lot, USA.
That's how the USA treats its friends. And we should want to be in that company - why, exactly?
the ultra-fast wireless technology Europe's leaders hope will fuel the growth of a data-based economy.
Every time I read this “argument”, I wonder: what’s with the big rush? Frankly, is 5G going to change our lives compared to 4G? I doubt it.
I understand that there are actors who stand to benefit (and may therefore be impatient):
But for the bulk of ordinary consumers? Yes, when visiting very crowded places, they'll get acceptable connectivity in conditions where 4G might be subpar. But that will concern a fraction of people, a fraction of the time in their daily life. Aside from that, nothing terribly new and exciting. If so, 5G won't really be a game changer for consumers or even for the overall economy.
And in that case, why not keep improving the current 4G network until better, cheaper, more trusted 5G options become available, instead of taking risks rushing with the cheapest hardware offering from a problematic supplier?
I don't think so. Harsh, yes, but also realistic. Look up "American Exceptionalism". It basically says they are top dog and better than everybody else. With that mind-set, you do not have friends, because friendship implies some level of equality. That some others are no better does not impact that state of affairs at all.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Supporting a Communist nation after the advice USA is Germany going Communist.
Advice isn't enough. America also needs to provide evidence. So far they have none.
If the Trump administration continues to lie about this, they may even start to lose their credibility.
Why does the US need to risk its own intelligence to provide evidence to nations that are been given US intelligence?
If the US could demonstrate a Huawei router collecting and transmitting data, or show how the firmware is compromised, how would that "risk" US intelligence? It would be disclosing facts that China would presumably already know.
They haven't demonstrated anything because they have no evidence.
Yes, well, Trump attempts to dictate "Thou shalt not purchase from company XYZ". No proof, just an assertion that they are not trustworthy. Because the country caught intercepting Cisco shipments and introducing backdoors into them is soooo trustworthy.
He's being an arrogant ass, continuing the usual foreign policy of the American government. Individuals Americans may be nice, but the US government is full of itself (and has been for decades, nothing to do with the current president).
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
Please stop it and grow up you idiot.
-- Cheers!
Yeah, not quite. Power is always relative, not absolute. Money is the ultimate power, and USA GDP is currently 24% of world GDP. That sounds like a lot, however GW Bush inherited a USA with over 30% of world GDP. USA isn't growing as fast as the rest of the world, and this is making the USA much less relevant on the world stage. We've really moved on from a bi-polar world to a tri-polar world: USA, Europe and China are the three big players. And when it goes from 2 to 3 players it's much easier to exclude any one player from any one game, such as how USA failed to stop Europe from working with China in this case. The fact is, EU+China can do their own deals now and ignore America. That's why going from 35+% of world GDP down to under 25% of world GDP is in fact a game-changer for the USA. People are more free to ignore you.
https://www.networkworld.com/article/2223272/60-minutes-torpedoes-huawei-in-less-than-15-minutes.html - There's mountains of evidence, you're just a moron. If you think this has anything at all to do with Trump, doubly so.
Gee your mama should wash your mouth out with soap. All that article claims is that Huawei copied US corporation's designs, that is IP theft. What that article is basically describing is what the US did to build up it's economy during the late 19th and early 20th centuries, stealing IP from European companies shielded by the US courts who did not see any reason to punish US citizens for stealing IP from a bunch of foreigners. Now China is doing it to you, so stop yelling **UNFAIR* like a whiny little bitch, suck it up and start out innovating them. The Trump admin is wants to ban Huawei because it is claiming Huawei is using their products to conduct a NSA style spying and eavesdropping operation on behalf of China who they seem to think is warehousing the data like the US govt. does with the NSA and it's multi billion dollar datacenter. Apparently Europe should be alarmed at Huawei spying on them (even though the WH can't prove it) but they should buy lots of off the shelf US network equipment that gets loaded up with spyware at a NSA facility before it is shipped over the pond. If anything the Europeans have more of an incentive to ban Cisco over spying (since the NSA has already been caught with its pants down installing malware on Cisco equipment) than they do banning Huawei. If the Chinese intelligence evert gets caught spiking Huawei gear with malware like their American colleagues are so fond of doing they'll be banned until that can be proven the Chinese have a leg up on the US in this regard.
This. Show us the proof or sod off. Huawei has been more open than any US 5G manufacturer, offering access to source code and CAD files for verification. All Cisco has done is swear that the NSA isn't intercepting its hardware to install backdoors any more, probably because they hard coded enough of their own in that it need not bother any more.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
>> I wonder what happens next.
What happens next is that you have tu upgrade your data plan or your internet connection, because all of your data gets replicated to at least 3 different destinations, so you use 3x more bandwidth in general.
aaaaaaa
I agree; if they need "evidence" they're not a close military ally, they're an arms-length ally, and they should get their shared data at an arm's length.
If they want cheek-and-jowl access, they need to show cheek-and-jowl trust.
Let's not forget however, that the USA is at present at war with it's own intelligence agencies.
So the threats are sort of weird - threatening to withhold intelligence that the CinC claims is all false anyhow. Isn't that helping our new enemies that used to be our allies?
Christ, this reads like schizophrenia world.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
He's used to people kissing is ass because he's rich. He's used to being above normal laws and paying to make problems go away, because he's rich.
Doesn't work in international politics though. Not least because at the pace economies and negotiations move the rest of the world can just wait for 2020. Realistically he's got a year left to do anything and there are some big problems headed his way during that time.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Trump doesn't get basic shit. You don't threaten people to get what you want except as a last resort - not a first resort. This is why he sucks at "dealmaking" and has basically failed at every opportunity to do so.
This was a very winnable objective.
We joke over this side of the pond, if Trump had negotiated Brexit then we'd have already adopted the Euro and German as the national language.
The problem with Trump is that his money and family connections meant he was able to walk over smaller people with impunity. That power matters for nought in international trade and diplomacy and you need to actually work with your opponents to secure a good deal. Bluster and impudence will get you at the very best, ignored.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.