Slashdot Mirror
Trump Blockade of Huawei Fizzles In European 5G Rollout (bloomberg.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Bloomberg: Last summer, the Trump administration started a campaign to convince its European allies to bar China's Huawei from their telecom networks. Bolstered by the success of similar efforts in Australia and New Zealand, the White House sent envoys to European capitals with warnings that Huawei's gear would open a backdoor for Chinese spies. The U.S. even threatened to cut off intelligence sharing if Europe ignored its advice. So far, not a single European country has banned Huawei. Europe, caught in the middle of the U.S.-China trade war, has sought to balance concerns about growing Chinese influence with a desire to increase business with the region's second-biggest trading partner. With no ban in the works, Huawei is in the running for contracts to build 5G phone networks, the ultra-fast wireless technology Europe's leaders hope will fuel the growth of a data-based economy.
The U.K.'s spy chief has indicated that a ban on Huawei is unlikely, citing a lack of viable alternatives to upgrade British telecom networks. Italy's government has dismissed the U.S. warnings as it seeks to boost trade with China. In Germany, authorities have proposed tighter security rules for data networks rather than outlawing Huawei. France is doing the same after initially flirting with the idea of restrictions on Huawei. Governments listened to phone companies such as Vodafone Group Plc, Deutsche Telekom AG, and Orange SA, who warned that sidelining Huawei would delay the implementation of 5G by years and add billions of euros in cost. While carriers can also buy equipment from the likes of Ericsson AB, Nokia Oyj, and Samsung Electronics Co., industry consultants say Huawei's quality is high, and the company last year filed 5,405 global patents, more than double the filings by Ericsson and Nokia combined. And some European lawmakers have been wary of Cisco Systems Inc., Huawei's American rival, since Edward Snowden leaked documents revealing the National Security Agency's use of U.S.-made telecom equipment for spying.
The U.K.'s spy chief has indicated that a ban on Huawei is unlikely, citing a lack of viable alternatives to upgrade British telecom networks. Italy's government has dismissed the U.S. warnings as it seeks to boost trade with China. In Germany, authorities have proposed tighter security rules for data networks rather than outlawing Huawei. France is doing the same after initially flirting with the idea of restrictions on Huawei. Governments listened to phone companies such as Vodafone Group Plc, Deutsche Telekom AG, and Orange SA, who warned that sidelining Huawei would delay the implementation of 5G by years and add billions of euros in cost. While carriers can also buy equipment from the likes of Ericsson AB, Nokia Oyj, and Samsung Electronics Co., industry consultants say Huawei's quality is high, and the company last year filed 5,405 global patents, more than double the filings by Ericsson and Nokia combined. And some European lawmakers have been wary of Cisco Systems Inc., Huawei's American rival, since Edward Snowden leaked documents revealing the National Security Agency's use of U.S.-made telecom equipment for spying.
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Ich Bindawalross (London) - GNAA (NYSE: GNAA) Pres
Huawei is still a tentacle of the Chinese Communist Party regardless of what Orange Treason says.
this racism and hate must be banned and disallwoed. this must be blocked. no more anonymous comments. no more vpn. no more dissenter. no more usenet. nothing. this hate must be erased from the world. its up to us, the intelligent, to be the stewards of fairness and decency.
In some European circles, this threat from the Trump administration may have seemed to resemble 50 lashes with a wet noodle.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
Nations like New Zealand, Japan, Poland.
Should the rest of the EU/NATO want to go full Communist then they will have to find another nation to offer them real time counterintelligence/intelligence as the US does now.
The US looked after NATO and nations in what is the EU for decades.
Their intelligence workers got the best US support, equipment and data. They got invited to the US to see US secrets and got to use US advancements.
The US supported the UK with equipment when the UK needed such support in Ireland. Full collection.
Now the UK forgets such real time US intelligence support in Ireland?
Now the same nations after decades of US tax payers support go full Communist?
Time for the US to find new friends it can trust to keep secrets and who will support the USA.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
I, for one, welcome our new Communist overlords.
Trump doesn't get basic shit. You don't threaten people to get what you want except as a last resort - not a first resort. This is why he sucks at "dealmaking" and has basically failed at every opportunity to do so.
This was a very winnable objective.
We know Cisco devices cant be trusted because the US government has already been caught installing backdoor spyware into Cisco devices at customs. We should ban Cisco as well as Huawei.
as the vile subhuman sand n1ggers and islamic muslim shistains take over your countries and rape your women. while you beta numales cower in the face of n1ggers and sand n1gger arab raping scum.
and the yellow vests are resisting your nightmare future. you havent won yet you cucked pc sjw low-t snoflake numale dickless pussy faggot loser.
suck a cock you faggot. make sure you have your dick chopped to please the shadow masters.
When the USA turns off the flow of raw real time data what will EU nations do?
The BND needs the flow of US data everyday.
The GCHQ needs US support globally and US support in Ireland.
Ask their embassy staff to spy more globally and never get detected spying?
Send out EU spies around the world?
Ask France to share/risk its global spy networks in real time? Colonel Marc and Henri will say no to that.
Going full Communist allows the USA to talk away and fully support more loyal nations.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Take that Bossy Betty. I mean USA. Threw a big old hussy fit and nobody rewarded it. Finally cried wolf one two many times.
USA: Caught and proven to be bugging US-made routers for spying.
China: Accused of but not proven to be bugging China-made routers for spying.
Remind me again why we shouldn't trust Chinese hardware?
Cisco couldn't compete on a level playing field with Huawei, so they asked the Government to help them out.
When the USA turns off the flow of raw real time data what will EU nations do?
Get a copy of it from the Chinese ?
...or die American
Can't tell if Pat Robertson or Don Lemon?
Make SELinux enforcing again!
This twitter has the facts about Donald Trump.
Well, except to the US domestically. But spying-wise, all telco equipment is compromised, and the US, having no honor whatsoever, is not above spying on allies. Those "allies" do remember that now and are reacting accordingly. Also, there is talk about removing the US ambassador from Germany, because some feel he is behaving inappropriately by directly threatening allies.
As a security expert, the whole thing is basically a non-issue. You always need real end-to-end encryption with no "backdoors" or any such totalitarian and moronic nonsense for a connection to be secure. But as soon as you have that, you do not care about a compromised network, as long as it still transmits your data. Other things, like location, are compromised anyways, no matter who delivers the equipment, because the network tech is not really secure against that anyways. The solution here is to know that and simply switch off your phone when you do not want to be tracked. As extra protection, have a removable battery, something I insist anyways. (No, I will not buy your crap design with planned obsolescence by not removable battery. Does not matter what shiny new feature it has or how great it looks. Go defraud somebody else.)
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Why would the US sign off on putting a known-thieving, known-spying, directly-owned and operated tentacle of the Chinese Communist Party in either its own intelligence/comms loop, or those of allies who will see our data?
Are you fucking serious or just a moron?
https://www.networkworld.com/article/2223272/60-minutes-torpedoes-huawei-in-less-than-15-minutes.html - There's mountains of evidence, you're just a moron. If you think this has anything at all to do with Trump, doubly so.
The BND needs the flow of US data everyday.
Can you clarify this? Exactly who is going to attack Germany if they miss a day of American supplied data?
https://www.networkworld.com/article/2223272/60-minutes-torpedoes-huawei-in-less-than-15-minutes.html
https://www.networkworld.com/article/2223272/60-minutes-torpedoes-huawei-in-less-than-15-minutes.html
It will have no effect. Or maybe it will have a positive effect because all that moronic, incompetent focus on "data" has yet to catch a single terrorist before the act. And the main purpose of that data, spying on innocent citizens, is basically a slow road to fascism, to the less that works, the better.
Hence I think it would be hugely preferably to not have that data, even if it was completely free. Also note that a lot of the data-taps are on EU (or British) soil, would be a shame if something were to happen to them...
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
https://www.networkworld.com/article/2223272/60-minutes-torpedoes-huawei-in-less-than-15-minutes.html
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G____________nnaana_nnn__nn_aa__nn__na_anaann_MERI CA______N
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Ich Bindawalross (London) - GNAA (NYSE: GNAA) Pres
Sure. Just ask /. nicely if they would like to block anonymous posting.
I'm sure it's just that nobody asked them before.
Heh.
Bill got caught lying 12-25 times repeatedly stating "Blood plasma is sterile" and then later that "The Chinese Govt does not directly censor Chinese citizens" and other absolute bullshit head-in-ass retard-level lies. You're not trustworthy.
You are not a source of information that anyone should or even could trust, knowing your dishonest history. Sorry. That's what accountability means when you get caught lying repeatedly, over and over, even after directly corrected.
You're a liar, Bill.
China: Accused of but not proven
We aren't talking about China the overall entity (though if we were that's still enough reason for concern).
No, we are talking about a company the serially does whatever it can to steal trade secrets from other companies. Even if you didn't believe whatever they captured was going back to China proper, why would you trust anything confidential to their gear?
It's not proven that I, personally, will die if I jump in a Yellowstone hot spring. But damned if I'm going to do it when others have died before me.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
lord geotus trump is right about everything. including you. you are fake news. you are a liar. you are a slanderous libelous seditious treasonous traitorous pig. people like you need to be imprisoned for life or worse for treason. we will find you eventually. and the sad thing is if you win (which you wont) you will get to live in a shit version of venezuela you fucking pig. and then we will take over again once that low point is reached.
you should kill yourself. you are a traitor and a subhuman pig who deserves to be long-pig bacon you subhuman.
Known, huh? And you failed to provide any links to the evidence because? Oh, only 'known' to you and your healthy imagination?
Or as Melania calls it: "date night". :-)
It must have been something you assimilated. . . .
Germany is dependant on US global real time data.
Without that Germany is open to Communist and other nations spying, industrial espionage.
The USA kept West Germany and now Germany safe for decades.
Germany thanks the USA by going Communist.
Re BND https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/... Note the US origins and support.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
With Britain withdrawing its nuclear shield, France too spastic to rely upon, and NATO positively hostile to Europe's defense, the way is clear for Germany to develop a full spectum of nuclear weapons to counter Putin's aggeressions.
There's little doubt, as your post implies, that Western Europe is by design beholden to the Americans for access to the most current information surreptitiously acquired by our usually efficient TLAs.
Now, let's say you're the nation who embraced the job of world's policeman (I know, cavalierly risking gender bias accusations) since the end of WWII.
Strategically, do you now abandon those generational alliances because European leaders mock your fearless leader, who is, quite fairly, a rather easy target?.?.?.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
Re "Also note that a lot of the data-taps are on EU (or British) soil"
That would be on US base sites. No non US staff would be allowed near such collection once the US removed EU access.
The site of US collection would not change. EU/NATO and UK gov/mil access to the data collected would be stopped.
The positive effect would be to nations that stayed with the USA and that the US can trust.
Re 'hugely preferably to not have that data" that would not be good news for the GCHQ, BND.
They would have to put in a budget request to totally replace all US data sharing.
Got a global mil budget to replace what the US tax payer once offered?
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Or as Melania calls it: "date night". :-)
Damn. I'd prefer that joke in the morning, when I'd be wasting coffee pressure-washing the keyboard, instead of half decent scotch in the evening.
Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.
Ernest Hemingway
How else are they going to get copies of Angel Merkel's phone calls in exchange for nudes?
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
In addition to Huawei telecom gear, they can also buy equipment by Ericsson AB, Nokia Oyj, and Samsung Electronics Co. . Each offering will probably just cost somewhat more, but the European companies are cheap and shortsighted. Sort of like American companies moving production to China in the 90s. Idiots.
You really do not understand how that works. You think you can tap an internet cable without it actually running over those bases? That cable will just find a new route. Or/and it may get link encryption. The whole threat is utterly empty and just a show for people without a clue.
Most ACs are not even worth the keystrokes to insult them. Be generically insulted by this and ignored otherwise.
Germany thanks the USA by going Communist.
Having universal health care does not make you communist, moron.
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Most of these posts read like they're from the 1950's era UnAmerican Activities Committee
FULL COMMUNISM! FULL COMMUNISM! FULL COMMUNISM!
AMERICA PROTECTS! YOU OWE US!
Nobody quite does propaganda like the United States, but it only really works on Americans who have never traveled outside the awful Midwestern shithole state they live in.
So, given the state of US cellular networks and coverage and their old, sick, narcolepic turtle pace in expanding, maybe they'd be quite happy to see the rest of the world get delayed in 5G deployments - maybe then US networks wouldn't look that bad and and the other hand they could blame their slow pace and lacking coverage on the Chinese, oh my:)
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use, which is all I can think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
A country can not simply ban a company from the market.
How exactly would that work?
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
The U.K.'s spy chief has indicated that a ban on Huawei is unlikely, citing a lack of viable alternatives to upgrade British telecom networks.
... is pretty lame.
I mean, it isn't as if Huawei hasn't been caught spying on people through their phones, and stealing others' inventions.
To me, that's the equivalent of saying, "We don't know how to build the phone infrastructure ourselves, so we'll just buy it from Russia."
Where's the difference?
I wouldn't let Huawei build my phone infrastructure any more than I'd voluntarily feed my private phone conversations to the NSA.
the ultra-fast wireless technology Europe's leaders hope will fuel the growth of a data-based economy.
Every time I read this “argument”, I wonder: what’s with the big rush? Frankly, is 5G going to change our lives compared to 4G? I doubt it.
I understand that there are actors who stand to benefit (and may therefore be impatient):
But for the bulk of ordinary consumers? Yes, when visiting very crowded places, they'll get acceptable connectivity in conditions where 4G might be subpar. But that will concern a fraction of people, a fraction of the time in their daily life. Aside from that, nothing terribly new and exciting. If so, 5G won't really be a game changer for consumers or even for the overall economy.
And in that case, why not keep improving the current 4G network until better, cheaper, more trusted 5G options become available, instead of taking risks rushing with the cheapest hardware offering from a problematic supplier?
I am CAPTAIN HOLOCAUST. Exterminate chimps, exterminate indochimps, and wipe out the JEWS.
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When will you answer for your lies?
Against the Chinese. But you will help Germany? Even after you were caught spying on their leaders?
Your rantings are quite amusing.
Not catch terrorists?
Because the US has forgot the history lessons:
Wars that fought on falsified or exaggerate accusations are doomed to fail, even if every battle was won.
Countries running on populism and getting too greedy are doomed to be defeated.
The Europeans (and the Russians) should have passed their Chinese classical literature class.
It was generally considered that Trump barely has enough intelligence to make coherent sentences, so he certainly did not have any to share.
This is all about FUD to try and keep sales for US companies.
Trump is such a joke that he is making the US a laughing stock too which is making America worse.
You can't point to a company that got caught both spying and stealing IP secrets for a foreign country 6 times in 10 years. Sorry, you're a liar falsely equivocating, and badly so.
USA is not the center of the universe, and is not the power it thinks it is. With Trump as the President, no one has respect for that uneducated idiot that commits treason against his own country..
Go crawl into a hole and die, faggot.
https://www.networkworld.com/article/2223272/60-minutes-torpedoes-huawei-in-less-than-15-minutes.html -OR JUST WATCH THE DAMN VIDEO LOL? MORON
Supporting a Communist nation after the advice USA is Germany going Communist.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Hardly, a series of Bullshitting presidents, most specifically The Shrub (with Darth Cheney as the actual bullshitting president), Uncle Tom Obama the Choom Gang Coward and The Klinton Krime Klan and entire cast of entirely corrupt corporate presidents, as bad as Don Don the Orange Oraguntan is, still not as bad as any of the rest of them, just as clumsy and ignorant as fuck, driven by a life of privileged arrogance. The other slime were just much better a putting on a pretty face, to cover up the corrupt ugliness.
Sometimes, I have say, it looks like Don Don, is fucking it up on purpose, doesn't want to do this shit, so does it extremely badly on purpose but the born to privileged arrogance will produce the same results when confronted with attempting diplomacy.
The US fabricated Venezuela in failure has devolved down into not even being about Venezuela any more but lamely trying to force US rapidly waning global power, running on the edge of threatening allies with implied nuclear attacks, the way they treat enemies, countries who refuse to obey. Now leaving countries no choice but to fight back now or face a future of threats of nuclear strikes on capital cities unless they obey, the US nuclear FIRST STRIKE policy, the spread of nuclear weapons now guaranteed, as the only way to be safe from an entirely corrupt and chaotic US government.
Chaos - everything, everywhere, everywhen
Well that says it all - i suppose we'll just have to live with American made equipment. At least we know of their back doors.
As usual your Marxist world view is both wrong and weâ(TM)ll just plain stupid.
The US has never more powerful than it is today. It grows in power daily. Only Marxists, fascists and morons who never touched a history book would think otherwise.
Name the country that is going to surpass the US anytime soon. You are going to say China. This mean you have never been there and know nothing about China nor their ridiculous new dictator and how he is unwinding their capitalist clone successes of recent decades and going back to state controlled shittery like all broken socialist (but I repeat myself) countries. Socialism and state controlled economies only leads downward to corruption and economic failure which goes hand in hand with total loss of freedom in all Marxist shitholes.
Not center of the universe. However, the US is the center of this planet. As far as Trump goes, a lot of people like âtrump. They just dont take the same classes your Marxist trash professors run. I was going to say teach but indoctrinate is more appropriate.
Supporting a Communist nation after the advice USA is Germany going Communist.
Advice isn't enough. America also needs to provide evidence. So far they have none.
If the Trump administration continues to lie about this, they may even start to lose their credibility.
I wouldn't let Huawei build my phone infrastructure any more than I'd voluntarily feed my private phone conversations to the NSA.
I would let Huawei build my phone infrastructure to protect my private phone conversations from the NSA.
Telecom equipment from a nation that didn't invade them, destroy them and doesn't have a history of spying on them. Is there really a big surprise here?
Or is the news that a violent nations lies about a peaceful one are no longer believed?
America land of the not quite free and not quite democratic. LoL.
Why does the US need to risk its own intelligence to provide evidence to nations that are been given US intelligence?
Thats a US tax payer funded collection of data given to EU nations.
The US can set limits on who and why any nation gets US intelligence support for any reason.
TO grant more access. To totally stop access. The US gets to set the terms as its their risk and their global collection.
Why should the US have to talk about any "evidence" in the open?
Thats a security risk to US methods and ability.
That can happen in a secure gov to gov setting.
No nation would talk about mil/gov "evidence" in then open for any reason.
Evidence relating to mil and security matters is what historians request approval to write about in about 50 years.
Should EU governments still select to go Communist, they can.
The US can then select to share its intelligence with nations that are more secure and much more response to actually keeping US secrets.
When a nation is sharing its own intelligence it can give any advice it wants to nations getting that intelligence.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Though on a technical note rather than anything else... I think most people in Europe mainly see what comes out of the US today as some sort of reality show and watch with bittersweet sorrow in their hearts and just waiting for better times hoping the US won't implode on itself because it has such great potential
The obviously best path would be to order European 5G equipment. That would strengthen the domestic companies and have no spying potential. Neither US or China could complain since both apply and urge similar restrictions. But the EU is too far behind, and simply can't order European equipment - so the choice comes down to who gets to do the spying, and either choice is proof of weakness.
Saying 'Nah-uh' to the Americans doesn't change the fact it should have never come to that.
For NZ: all the fibre rollout runs on Huawei equipment. My home's receiver box is a Huawei, the ISP's router behind that is more than likely a rebranded Huawei or other Chinese-made one. No other options are on offer. You can bet Australia's broadband rollout is also filled with Huawei kit. So, what 'success'?
Why does the US need to risk its own intelligence to provide evidence to nations that are been given US intelligence?
If the US could demonstrate a Huawei router collecting and transmitting data, or show how the firmware is compromised, how would that "risk" US intelligence? It would be disclosing facts that China would presumably already know.
They haven't demonstrated anything because they have no evidence.
That's a bunch of accusations, innuendos and opinions, not evidence. The settled court cases don't show much either - it is well known that American companies use the legal system and their deep pockets to stop competition.
Try again.
Yes, well, Trump attempts to dictate "Thou shalt not purchase from company XYZ". No proof, just an assertion that they are not trustworthy. Because the country caught intercepting Cisco shipments and introducing backdoors into them is soooo trustworthy.
He's being an arrogant ass, continuing the usual foreign policy of the American government. Individuals Americans may be nice, but the US government is full of itself (and has been for decades, nothing to do with the current president).
Enjoy life! This is not a dress rehearsal.
USA spooks want EVERY bit of data.....to protect and serve or something.
Around the world, the world listened to Snowden likely MORE after watching how USA responded to this single opposing voice.
Europe and Asia are kinda big. As more and more countries say "Fuck off USA/NSA" the usefulness of dragnet decreases as the hole gets larger.
NSA spying, if USA people are going to allow this bullshit, should only be imposed on USA citizens within USA sovereign borders. The rest of the world has borders and they are entitled to pass their own laws, govern their own people in their own way, not subject to USA paranoia and whims.
Good for europe and asia for flipping NSA the bird.
Although i doubt USA spooks will like this, the totalitarian of their surveillance is massively flawed, and with these gigantic holes, increasingly useless.
About the only thing these countries will fight the USA on, is trading partners. In fact there's an Australian show Pine Gap (referring to the US spy-satellite ground relay), exploring the idea of the USA declaring war on Australia's biggest partner, China.
The reason the rest of the world likes Australia: Its stable blend of Americanism and leftism, plus its British heritage.
They can’t lose their credibility because they have none.
-- Cheers!
And another oh-so-superior Europe supremacist jumps in the conversation to crap all over Americans and remind them just how stupid and culturally backwards we are. We know, we've heard it a million times. If anyone wonders why NATO failed, just refer to this comment. Have fun with your new buddies in Communist China. Bet they won't pay for your defense or let you rip them off for $150 billion a year in unfair trade agreements. Good riddance.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
you're a naive idiot
No it's not WindBourne this time. There aren't any lies in the comment.
Trump, like WindBourne here doesn't have any credibility left to lose.
Punish the Europeans by denying them access to American intelligence, as a result of their complicity.
Yeah, not quite. Power is always relative, not absolute. Money is the ultimate power, and USA GDP is currently 24% of world GDP. That sounds like a lot, however GW Bush inherited a USA with over 30% of world GDP. USA isn't growing as fast as the rest of the world, and this is making the USA much less relevant on the world stage. We've really moved on from a bi-polar world to a tri-polar world: USA, Europe and China are the three big players. And when it goes from 2 to 3 players it's much easier to exclude any one player from any one game, such as how USA failed to stop Europe from working with China in this case. The fact is, EU+China can do their own deals now and ignore America. That's why going from 35+% of world GDP down to under 25% of world GDP is in fact a game-changer for the USA. People are more free to ignore you.
.... you sound like someone running a script.
(You see that both for and against the guy) What a time we live in.
Unfortunately you'll just have to get used to the fact that these kind of posters have a shoe size bigger than their IQ. They crop up with this shit every now and again
"The hands that help are better far than lips that pray." - Robert Ingersoll (1833-1899)
Naw, they'll whine and cry, and then their next administration will pay the companies to replace all the devices.
This. Show us the proof or sod off. Huawei has been more open than any US 5G manufacturer, offering access to source code and CAD files for verification. All Cisco has done is swear that the NSA isn't intercepting its hardware to install backdoors any more, probably because they hard coded enough of their own in that it need not bother any more.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
The data includes information about international shipping and trade security, what is likely to happen at an upcoming OPEC meeting, etc.
Germany's need for the data is economic, not military.
I agree; if they need "evidence" they're not a close military ally, they're an arms-length ally, and they should get their shared data at an arm's length.
If they want cheek-and-jowl access, they need to show cheek-and-jowl trust.
"all that moronic, incompetent focus on "data" has yet to catch a single terrorist before the act" Wrong, at least in the U.S. There was the recent case of that fellow that worked for the Coast Guard collecting ammo and guns for what he hoped would be his assault on the Democrats. Had a kill list and everything.
Sometime in the next 2 or 3 seconds someone in China is going to consider leaving China that has been banned from doing so. Maybe the scumbags will think twice now that they know passing through anywhere in Europe will out their location to the Chinese agency tasked with 'recovering' all those organs that are wasted on the assholes that would DARE have a religion or be of a race that isn't native to China despite being born there.
And another oh-so-superior Europe supremacist jumps in the conversation to crap all over Americans and remind them just how stupid and culturally backwards we are.
Well someone has to. You seem to forget it in your superiority.
If anyone wonders why NATO failed, just refer to this comment.
Huh? It failed? As far as I can tell the USA wants more money put into it.
Have fun with your new buddies in Communist China.
Your brain doesn't appear to be working. If you've already had your morning coffee then may I suggest calling 911, you may have just had a stroke.
Bet they won't pay for your defense or let you rip them off for $150 billion a year in unfair trade agreements.
You repeat this ad nauseum despite having been told with references all over again that the figure is bullshit. Your inability to learn from the falsehood of your fox and friends talking points is precisely why it is important people constantly remind you of how moronic you guys can actually be.
Germany thanks the USA by going Communist.
Having universal health care does not make you communist, moron.
No, but claiming that it is better than the insurance-based healthcare the US has, tend to make you appear dumb.
If you dig deeper you'll see that it is horribly expensive and the prime target for 'cost reductions', making it sub-standard at best in real life.
At least that is how it works here in Denmark - long waits for non-emergency treatment, severely understaffed, way too early release after treatment... and a tendency to host lingering department-wide infections due to rushed daily routines and sub-standard cleaning.
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
So much for fizzling. Our defense intelligence service neither couldn't nor wouldn't guarantee that Huawei would not be using their technology to spy or disrupt vital areas of infrastructure, so nobody wanted to take a chance. It's as simple as that.
One of the big points were that despite the whole thing hinged on the fact that a Chinese company would have to submit to total government control in case the government wanted to, and the blatantly obviously solution would be to move Huawei out of China to cut that control, nobody even considered that at Huawei which made it obvious that the government control was a central part of business, and thus that it is a core goal to place technology everywhere that the Chinese government could control easily if it so desired.
"For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat, and wrong." -- H.L. Mencken (1880-1956) --
The GCHQ needs US support globally and US support in Ireland.
Ummm, what?
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
>> And some European lawmakers have been wary of Cisco Systems Inc
Yeah. The motto of Cisco is: "A backdoor a day keeps your data far away."
Cisco = Backdoors with a router
Nobody needs that.
aaaaaaa
And another oh-so-superior Europe supremacist jumps in the conversation to crap all over Americans and remind them just how stupid and culturally backwards we are. We know, we've heard it a million times. If anyone wonders why NATO failed, just refer to this comment. Have fun with your new buddies in Communist China. Bet they won't pay for your defense or let you rip them off for $150 billion a year in unfair trade agreements. Good riddance.
You seem quite upset to no longer be getting as shafted as you imply you were.
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
>> I wonder what happens next.
What happens next is that you have tu upgrade your data plan or your internet connection, because all of your data gets replicated to at least 3 different destinations, so you use 3x more bandwidth in general.
aaaaaaa
Germany thanks the USA by going Communist. Having universal health care does not make you communist, moron.
No, but claiming that it is better than the insurance-based healthcare the US has, tend to make you appear dumb.
If you dig deeper you'll see that it is horribly expensive and the prime target for 'cost reductions', making it sub-standard at best in real life. At least that is how it works here in Denmark - long waits for non-emergency treatment, severely understaffed, way too early release after treatment... and a tendency to host lingering department-wide infections due to rushed daily routines and sub-standard cleaning.
It is better. Your particular example might not be the most efficient but would you rather blow through your life savings because you broke an arm and picked up an infection?
Wanna buy a shirt?
https://www.redbubble.com/people/stealthfinger/shop?asc=u
Denmark picking a Swedish product over a Chinese OR an American one doesn't sound desperately like kowtowing to Cheeto-in-Chief's demands. That just sounds like buying local.
Re "It would be disclosing facts"
Has any nation ever talked openly about its actual spy methods?
All the US has to do tell the EU governments what will be needed for them to keep US secrets safe.
If EU nations can't meet that then the US no longer has to share its intelligence with any EU nation.
The US does not have to talk in the open or "demonstrate" in any way what it understands is a risk to US methods.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
Did the UK ever give up on spying in Ireland?
Ireland is still getting collected on by the UK and USA to ensure the "peace process" works.
Domestic spying is now "Benign Information Gathering"
It's no more true than claiming Cisco or Microsoft are a tentacle of the US government. And based on evidence so far known, the latter case is far more the case than the former. If you want to be trusted, you have to stop being untrustworthy, merkin. And after you stop being untrustworthy, you still have to wait and keep being trustworthy until you have rebuilt that trust.
Unfortunately you're not, as a country, trustworthy, and the president is 100% untrustworthy.
The only link you give you CLAIM shows evidence, but all it is are the CLAIMS of people that Huawei did stuff, nothing actually true. Can we claim Trump HAS colluded with Russia because there's a lot of people who claim he has, and even investigations into him doing it...?
It's why there's "non compete agreements" and actual laws punishing stealing trade secrets. The USA has stolen secrets. Therefore we should ban USA? And let me say that PROVE does not actually provide proof. And, no, that doesn't include a link to other people claiming that they did wrong but not provide proof themselves either.
This is all a secret plot by the European Union countries to create an economic stimulus in Europe to fix up some of our crappier economies and to further advance the domination over the rest of Europe by the top few, whilst ensuring the US doesn't need to spend anything at the moment. Its a public way for the European powers to get approval for their budgets and plans without having to work too hard.
The jist of it is that by pretending that the US will withdraw all sorts of services, Europe will have to develop their own capabilities. It's already happened with GPS and the Galileo constellation, and now it's starting to happen with snooping too. Europe will soon be launching a new generation of spy satellites which surpass US capabilities. These will require lots of government spending to create (thus: stimulus), and will ultimately provide a revenue stream when we sell the data to the US (either collecting actual currency, or more likely services in return).
This sort of thing wasn't possible when the US had actual politicians in charge - they were far to clever to ever 'threaten' anything directly. Now that JarJar Binks is in charge, a modest amount of manipulation (saying things like "if only there was a president with the balls for the job. Not like that wet fish, Obama!" and such like) is all it took to get the plan in motion. Clever, huh!?
"Use US gear and the US will listen in. " is a proven historical fact
vs
" the Chinese government will listen." is a claim based on paranoia and expectation. Add it's a well known truism that the untrustworthy thinks everyone else is untrustworthy. It's a protection for the self image and ego: you're not bad, you're just no worse than everyone else, you are CERTAIN of it! No proof allowed (or wanted).
Even when the US betrays that trust?
Germany rembers that the US spied on their current chancellor.
The US claims that the chinese could spy using Huawei equipment, yet have been caught doing the same with US equipment. I wonder why the US isn't taken at their word?
Britain and France. USA is not among them. When you overspend and get shit quality, you will always want to use amount spent as your metric of contribution, because
a) it's EASY to look at that number, you don't need to prove it means anything
b) pork is part of that misspend, making it politically correct to overspend at home, even if it bankrupts you
but what you need to do is see RESULTS, not the amount spent. And you don't look so good at that. Hell, you have hidden criminals at home to hide from possible war crimes (the Apache/Civilian war crime and the A-10 shooting UK Challenger tanks, along with a US jarhead wanted for a civilian crime in German evac'd to the USA before the warrant could be issued, and refused to be sent to Germany). So tell me why we want you on our side? We get shot up enough from the enemy without someone who does so and demands we thank them for it!
On the contrary, if they don't need evidence, then they are fools, not allies.
So it works about the same in Denmark as in the US, then.
I agree; if they need "evidence" they're not a close military ally, they're an arms-length ally, and they should get their shared data at an arm's length.
If they want cheek-and-jowl access, they need to show cheek-and-jowl trust.
Let's not forget however, that the USA is at present at war with it's own intelligence agencies.
So the threats are sort of weird - threatening to withhold intelligence that the CinC claims is all false anyhow. Isn't that helping our new enemies that used to be our allies?
Christ, this reads like schizophrenia world.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
And another oh-so-superior Europe supremacist jumps in the conversation to crap all over Americans and remind them just how stupid and culturally backwards we are. We know, we've heard it a million times.
Did you ever wonder if our big mistake was lend-lease, and fighting for the Euro-supremacists? They could be under NatSoc rule right now, and apparently much happier for it.
The shepherds did so well protecting the flock that the sheep no longer believed that wolves existed.
He's used to people kissing is ass because he's rich. He's used to being above normal laws and paying to make problems go away, because he's rich.
Doesn't work in international politics though. Not least because at the pace economies and negotiations move the rest of the world can just wait for 2020. Realistically he's got a year left to do anything and there are some big problems headed his way during that time.
const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
Oh, that's because you want it that way. Sorry, if the NSA is using their spying to aid COMMERCIAL interests, then that still counts, bud. And what is with the hate for Russia? Your president LOVES Putin and Kim!
China hasn't extraordinary renditioned anyone. They just fuck over their own people and, not being chinese, I don't get affected by that.
One is an example of a democratic ally having had access to something you didn't intend. The other is a regime opposed to democracy and with a train of human rights violations in their wake to make African dictatorships blush.
The issue isn't just that someone will have their hands in the cookie jar, that is a given. The issue is WHO you are letting have their hands in the cookie jar.
And Germany spied on the US as well. Trust goes both ways, but evaporates quickly especially when it comes to economic wellbeing of ones voters. If anyone thinks Germany doesnt run with a Germany first mindset they are delusional. There is a reason Germany runs with a positive trade balance with every other country it has ties with.
My problem with it is that I can't copy the URL and clicking share just show something which is then immediately removed on phone (fix Slashdot don't censor to encourage socialist fucktards.)
"Well someone has to. You seem to forget it in your superiority."
Says the inferior and arrogant backward culture. Seriously you can just go back and forth on this nonsense all day.
"Huh? It failed? As far as I can tell the USA wants more money put into it."
I believe that is merely wanting you to pay your equal share or dissolve it.
"Have fun with your new buddies in Communist China.
Your brain doesn't appear to be working. If you've already had your morning coffee then may I suggest calling 911, you may have just had a stroke."
No, you are deciding it is a better idea to hand your intelligence and networks over to the intelligence industry of the country that runs the great firewall, opposes democracy, and burns peaceful monks alive alongside mowing down students with tanks. As far as I can tell it is purely out of petty spite. You demand proof they will spy as if it isn't petty and naive to pretend that whoever you buy from is going to do that, that was a given the minute you didn't develop your own chips for sensitive purposes like this. The question isn't whether or not they are going to spy but WHO you are giving the data to. Your long standing allies with common interests or the guys who won't speak to you if don't pretend Tibet was always part of their nation.
"You repeat this ad nauseum despite having been told with references all over again that the figure is bullshit."
And you are nitpicking.
"No, but claiming that it is better than the insurance-based healthcare the US has, tend to make you appear dumb."
Please stop talking. You are making us all look horrible. Continue not being willing to help others and wanting a short line in the form of denying others lifesaving care. But stop pretending the insurance-based healthcare even remotely makes economic sense, it doesn't. We spend more tax dollars failing to provide government health care in the US than other nations with comparable overall quality of care spend paying for that care entirely with house calls.
ergo the firmware is compromised. Chain of trust is already broken. If Huawei and China were REALLY STUPID (which they are not)... firmware 1.0 would already have these issues. Obviously you would wait until you have a nice installed base and then issue a minor firmware update down the road (v.14.0.101a.01g) that "Fixes various bugs." Current versions of course are clean. China can later ask the company for the LOVE OF COUNTRY, to make a change to the firmware to restore China back from the "century of humiliation". Huawei will gladly do it.
There's no such thing as a free lunch. You can bet your bottom dollar that the US is getting at least as much value out of information sharing as it gets back. The US isn't giving away this data.
Trump doesn't get basic shit. You don't threaten people to get what you want except as a last resort - not a first resort. This is why he sucks at "dealmaking" and has basically failed at every opportunity to do so.
This was a very winnable objective.
We joke over this side of the pond, if Trump had negotiated Brexit then we'd have already adopted the Euro and German as the national language.
The problem with Trump is that his money and family connections meant he was able to walk over smaller people with impunity. That power matters for nought in international trade and diplomacy and you need to actually work with your opponents to secure a good deal. Bluster and impudence will get you at the very best, ignored.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
That's why going from 35+% of world GDP down to under 25% of world GDP is in fact a game-changer for the USA. People are more free to ignore you.
The US hasn't had wise leadership for over two decades. It's not surprising that things have declined. The sooner we pull back and let the world go to hell the better. It's not like we're loved for keeping the peace. Let Japan re-arm, let the EU and South Korea figure out how they want to handle it, and move out over a ten year period so they have time to adjust. We have our own things internally to take care of.
Supporting a Communist nation after the advice USA is Germany going Communist.
Advice isn't enough. America also needs to provide evidence. So far they have none.
If the Trump administration continues to lie about this, they may even start to lose their credibility.
What do you mean by "start to"... As an Australian born Brit, I can assure you that the Trump Administration started with very little credibility (mainly due to the way Trump ran his campaign) and has been trying as hard as they can to lose whatever shreds of credibility they started with.
They wont stop lying though. They're people with no dignity, as long as their lies are believed by someone they'll keep saying them.
Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
Not least because at the pace economies and negotiations move the rest of the world can just wait for 2020.
The current crop of Democrats doesn't look like they have anything catching traction. When Biden is supposed to be the adult in the room you know they're in trouble. The world may very well have to wait until 2024.
Strategically, do you now abandon those generational alliances because European leaders mock your fearless leader, who is, quite fairly, a rather easy target?.?.?.
Who cares about mocking Trump. Pulling back from Europe makes sense because footing the bill for their defense is just not worth it. Spend the $$ locally in the US and focus on ourselves for a change.
That power matters for nought in international trade and diplomacy
To be fair, you're actually kind of amusing.
Enjoy being HACKED BY CHINESE. You guys can have some 0wned jelly for your crumpets and croissants.
Without the American market to absorb every piece of crap the world can shit out, who are they going to sell to? American money pays for the entire planet. Add to that the free-as-in-beer naval protection for the world's exports. EU profits handsomely from trade with the US, not so much from with China.
Shutting down free speech with violence isn't fighting fascism. It IS fascism!
Someone is still trying to spread old news around...
Someone has been watching F** News or listen to only those right wing extremist talk show hosts and never want to look for what really out there or use the brain to do some reasoning. And then wanted to spout all conspiracies they heard from to the world as fact. It is sad that there are many of this kind of people...
This. So much this.
Big Giant Orange Head has only one mode of dealing with people. There are peons (all of us) and dictators like himself (he's only a wannabe, but he wants it so bad). Peons get threats and insults unless the peons are obsequious ass-kissers. Then the obsequious ass-kissers are eligible for a dismissive pat on the had. Dictators get worship, praise, respect and envy. Dictators are the coolest to BGOH!
The mystery is that there is also a collection of Not Cool Dictators for BGOH. He appears to need a Lex Luthor in his life and the Not Cool Dictators fill that role for him.
Yay! Trump is defeated and a dictatorship has insinuated itself into the free West's Internet hardware on a massive scale!
Yes!
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
To be fair, it is trivially easy to block 90%+ of that by automatically matching the patterns and then blocking AC posts from that IP for a day/week. Trolls aren't going to spend $5/month per IP to shit post.
My VPNs all require port knocking to get a valid login and then tarpit any failures on a minute, ten minute, hour, day, etc. Unless it is a whitelisted IP because I got annoyed after remotely locking myself out after a key change once and had to drive in.
fuck off ivan and go kill vladimir putin
assassinate vladimir putin
you are a stupid frightened little boy pissing your pants now eh
You know, if you switch your first line to Russia then its about Trump.
And that other countries with most of their population literally living on dirt floors are now modernizing, finally, through more liberal economics (read: freedom to start your own businesses) doesn't mean the US isn't growing.
(-1: Post disagrees with my already-settled worldview) is not a valid mod option.
No, but claiming that it is better than the insurance-based healthcare the US has, tend to make you appear dumb. ... obviously.
I think the one who looks dumb is you, after all in Germany we also use an insurance based system
Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
Indeed, prior to Trump shitting on them for 3 years, the EU was our ally in international conflicts (e.g. the Iranian sanctions, dealing with Russia, etc.) They easily could have bought into a Western Countries vs. China war (based on spying, IP protection, environmental and labor rights, etc.). But Trump cannot coordinate that. Hell, the TPP, whatever you thought of it, was in large part a unified way of containing China.
But Trump doesn't understand how teams work, so instead he's holding up China buying soybeans as a victory while losing at, well, everything that isn't selling agricultural output. Which, to be clear, isn't a win: it's what they were already doing. This is just them announcing the same policy as the past decade as "due to Trump's brilliance".
Your ad here. Ask me how!
"Cutting off intelligence sharing" essentially means that the US agrees to stop siphoning our secret service's information while they keep providing us with the same level of information they already do.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
In international politics that's still "tomorrow".
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
I know it's very en vogue to spout random bullshit and hope it sticks, I am an old fashioned guy, though, and as long as a claim isn't supported by evidence, I ignore it.
In other words, you just posted an empty statement.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
A country where people seriously discuss teaching creationism as if it had any scientific merit IS backwards.
Ya know, when I was young, the US was the country. It was the future. You wanted to know what's gonna happen in 10 years, take a look at the US, because there, the future is already now.
Today, the US is essentially the schoolyard bully of international politics. Strong, but incredibly stupid, so you suck up to him while he's looking but laugh about his blunders and utter stupidity whenever he's not looking.
We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
SHH Don't interrupt the america/trump hate!
Let's not forget however, that the USA is at present at war with it's own intelligence agencies.
That makes as much sense as if you said, "Lets not forget that I'm at war with my nose!"
First of all, it isn't a historical fact that we agreed to, so why are you pretending that we agreed to it in the past? That's a precondition of worrying that we might "forget."
Second of all, it is really stupid. You obviously consume a lot of "alternative media."
Christ, this reads like schizophrenia world.
Yeah, lets just re-quote this one little snippet from earlier:
the USA is at present at war with it's own intelligence agencies
That's why you feel like you're experiencing schizophrenia. You're saying things like that.