Humans Might Be Able To Sense Earth's Magnetic Field (theguardian.com)

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Humans Might Be Able To Sense Earth's Magnetic Field (theguardian.com)

Posted by BeauHD on Wednesday March 20, 2019 @10:00PM from the pole-position dept.

A new study from researchers at the California Institute of Technology suggests that humans can sense the Earth's magnetic field. "We have not as a species lost the magnetic sensory system that our ancestors [millions of years ago] had," said Prof Joseph Kirschvink, leader of the research from the California Institute of Technology. "We are part of Earth's magnetic biosphere." The Guardian reports: Writing in the journal eNeuro, Kirschvink and colleagues in the U.S. and Japan describe how they made their discovery after building a six-sided cage, the walls of which were made of aluminium to shield the setup from electromagnetic interference. These walls also contained coils through which currents were passed to produce magnetic fields of about the same strength as Earth's. Each participant was asked to enter the cage and sit still on a wooden chair in the dark, facing straight ahead towards the north. During the experiment, the team measured the participant's brain waves using an electroencephalogram (EEG).

In some experiments the applied magnetic fields were fixed in one direction, while in others they were rotated. In still others the machines were turned on but no magnetic field was produced -- meaning the participant was only exposed to Earth's natural magnetic field. The participant was unaware which experiment was under way. The results, gathered from 34 adult participants, revealed that certain scenarios triggered a drop in participants' alpha brain waves -- a change that is linked to the brain processing information. This occurred if the applied magnetic field was pointed north and then swept upwards or downwards, or directed down while pointing north and rotated anticlockwise. That is similar to a human in the northern hemisphere nodding their head, or turning their head to the right respectively. Kirschvink said the responses showed that the brain was clocking an unexpected change in the environment. "Crucially, he said, it means that humans must be ale to detect such changes -- although the strength of the response varied hugely among participants," reports The Guardian.

The authors say the new research suggests the human system can tell north from south via a mechanism involving special cells containing iron-based crystals. "These crystals are thought to rotate rather like the needle of a compass, opening or closing pores in the cells, thereby affecting signals being sent to the brain," the report adds.

106 comments

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First by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-20 22:06 · Score: 0

First?
I am also ale. by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-20 22:07 · Score: 0

Well, I've drunk enough of it, most of me must be ale by now.
EDITORS, EDIT !
1. Re: I am also ale. by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 01:33 · Score: 0
  
  +1
What it's really about by r2kordmaa · 2019-03-20 22:09 · Score: 4, Informative

https://www.youtube.com/watch?... Here's a video of it in action. So it demonstrates that there is a mechanism where changing magnetic field results in brain signals, maybe if there is no error in experiment. Which kinda makes sense, it does work for other animals after all so it's biologically possible. But there doesn't seem to be any mechanism of a person actually noticing it as a sense, so maybe these brain waves are just trees falling in the forest, nobody there to hear.
1. Re:What it's really about by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-20 23:28 · Score: 0
  
  Electromagnetic hypersensitivity might not be complete nonsense then, magnetic fields changing at 50/60 hz might mess some people up.
2. Re:What it's really about by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 00:19 · Score: 0
  
  So it demonstrates that there is a mechanism where changing magnetic field results in brain signals, maybe if there is no error in experiment.
  Which might mean that the people who say they have EM sensitivity aren't completely full of it.
  People have dismissed them and said "no, you can't feel EM", but if you can measure the effect on humans, then it is plausible they're really experiencing something.
  I have no idea if this is true or not, or how good the research is. But measurable effects on brain waves from this might change some of the underlying assumptions that it's all in their own head ... because it might be an actual physical reaction in their head and not something they just imagined.
3. Re:What it's really about by Vihai · 2019-03-21 00:23 · Score: 1
  
  That has also be tested and no evidence has been found.
4. Re:What it's really about by bobbied · 2019-03-21 00:26 · Score: 2
  
  but there is a quick and effective way to test if they can 'feel" it or not.
  It's called a double blind study, where you put them in a shielded box, and turn the WiFi on and off randomly and ask them if they can feel it at random intervals and see if they can tell you more often than chance if the WiFi is on or off. It might take a couple of days, but I'm betting you will fairly quickly find out that they really don't "feel" it.
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
5. Re:What it's really about by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 01:11 · Score: 0
  
  That has also be tested and no evidence has been found.
  I don't disagree with you, but "no evidence found" and "falsified hypothesis" are different things.
  
  This occurred if the applied magnetic field was pointed north and then swept upwards or downwards, or directed down while pointing north and rotated anticlockwise. That is similar to a human in the northern hemisphere nodding their head, or turning their head to the right respectively.
  If this effect is real and measurable (I have no idea either way and don't have skin in the game), unless those tests included this "down, north, and anti-clockwise" wasn't included in them then it is possible the tests didn't measure the same thing as this.
  I'm not advocating for it, or saying "see, all of those people aren't wrong" -- I don't know anybody who claims to have EM sensitivity.
  I am saying that until you combine a better understanding of these results with testing against people who say they have sensitivity, you may have been measuring it wrong.
  If you can measure an effect on the human brain due to a specific alignment/rotation of the magnetic field, anything which tested this sensitivity using another method hasn't falsified the possibility people are really experiencing it.
  If measuring it requires a specific directionality, unless you tested people using that ... who knows?
  EM sensitivity has always seemed unlikely to me, but this article makes me say "OK, maybe we haven't measured it right yet".
6. Re:What it's really about by skovnymfe · 2019-03-21 01:14 · Score: 1
  
  Hasn't it been proven completely imaginary every time it has come up?
7. Re:What it's really about by Applehu+Akbar · 2019-03-21 01:25 · Score: 2
  
  Why not test a sample of people who claim to have EM sensitivity against a random selection of subjects? The results of this will be of great interest either to researchers or to the self-identified EM sensitives.
8. Re:What it's really about by Joce640k · 2019-03-21 01:40 · Score: 1
  
  Electromagnetic hypersensitivity might not be complete nonsense then, magnetic fields changing at 50/60 hz might mess some people up.
  a) They don't typically complain about 50Hz mains, and there's no way a mains wire is emitting a magnetic field strong enough to sense (unless they're wrapping it around their heads)
  b) They typically complain about cellphones, WiFi routers, etc.
  c) Going outdoors a long way from any electronics would make them very ill indeed because of the sun's rays and earth's magnetism.
  d) Please don't give them any more ideas for reasons to try to be ill until this is a 100% proven thing.
  
  --
  No sig today...
9. Re:What it's really about by Joce640k · 2019-03-21 01:43 · Score: 1
  
  I don't disagree with you, but "no evidence found" and "falsified hypothesis" are different things.
  a) It's almost as if you don't know that falsifying a negative is logically impossible.
  b) There's the James Randi $1 million prize for anybody who can demonstrate a positive in a double-blind test.
  c) And several other prizes, too.
  
  --
  No sig today...
10. Re:What it's really about by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 01:48 · Score: 0
  
  The really important take away from that video is that dogs frequently orient themselves north/south when the poo. I've been keeping tabs on my dog ever since I saw that video and so far, only once has he not been facing north, he was more north east.
11. Re:What it's really about by guruevi · 2019-03-21 01:51 · Score: 0
  
  There's a BIG difference between the magnetic fields a regular 110/220V line throws out and the earth's magnetic field. Even a 50kV line has negligible magnetic fields if you're standing right under them, the earth's magnetic field is stronger than a household power line in a matter of mm/cm.
  The best way of finding out is have a compass nearby, if your compass starts deflecting, then a nearby magnetic field is stronger than earth's. Otherwise, earth's is stronger.
  
  --
  Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
12. Re:What it's really about by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 01:54 · Score: 0
  
  "Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence".
  It's difficult to prove a negative. Basicaly, the studies can show that the studies didn't find anything. The reason could be that electromagnetic hypersensitivity is completely imaginary, or that half the people tested are hypochondriacs, or that the methodology is wrong, or something else.
  For example, people might only be affected by these slow changes in magnetic fields with a field strength similar to the Earth magnetic field. Then wifi/cell phone signals would have no effect and any studies testing that would find nothing.
13. Re:What it's really about by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 02:19 · Score: 0
  
  a) It's almost as if you don't know that falsifying a negative is logically impossible.
  No, I know exactly what it means.
  I'm saying " 'failure to confirm' does not mean 'proved it doesn't exist' ". We're saying the same thing.
  Just because prior testing failed to confirm the effect, doesn't mean you have demonstrated there is no effect. It might mean that, but it doesn't prove it.
  If (and I have said I accept this is a reach) you put someone who claims sensitivity into this particular test, where they can actually measure changes in brain waves based on the orientation relative to North ... then it is conceivable that you get a result from them.
  I have no idea and I'm skeptical, but anybody saying "this was tested and it didn't exist" also has to deal with the fact that you can't prove a negative, especially when someone comes along and says "hey, we can measure changes in alpha waves based on the orientation of a magnetic field and we've never done that before".
  Nobody can say EM sensitivity doesn't exist, and nobody has proven it does or what the mechanism would be. I'm saying purely as an intellectual exercise that it is interesting to ponder if "you're measuring it wrong" might apply here.
  Any measurable effect on the brain tells you any hypothesis that claims there is no way for people to directly perceive magnetic effects might be wrong.
  I'm saying this purely as a thought exercise.
14. Re:What it's really about by Joce640k · 2019-03-21 03:15 · Score: 1
  
  Just because prior testing failed to confirm the effect, doesn't mean you have demonstrated there is no effect.
  No, but we've proved that a lot of people that claim to be able to directly observe an effect are deluding themselves.
  When that happens, the burden of proof shifts over to them, not us.
  It usually turns out they don't even know the four steps of the basic scientific method, let alone how to set up a double-blind experiment.
  
  Any measurable effect on the brain tells you any hypothesis that claims there is no way for people to directly perceive magnetic effects might be wrong.
  Sure, but where would these magnetic fields come from? The magnetic fields from wires in the environment are far too weak to have any effect.
  (just like cellphone radiation could warm up your brain if it was in the kilowatt range, but it isn't...)
  
  --
  No sig today...
15. Re:What it's really about by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 04:47 · Score: 1
  
  They already did. The WiFi sensitive people reported sensing WiFi whenever the red light on the device came on, and went away when the light went off. The interesting part was they tested with the light on with WiFi off, and WiFi on with the light off.
16. Re:What it's really about by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 05:17 · Score: 0
  
  For wifi ranges.
  For others, not so much. Bad ballasts on fluorescent lights make a significant number of people nauseous or provide headaches, despite needing a high-speed camera to detect visually.
17. Re:What it's really about by Aighearach · 2019-03-21 05:51 · Score: 1
  
  Hasn't it been proven completely imaginary every time it has come up?
  Will you please stop saying stupid things like that? Please? For the rest of your life?
  You can't prove a negative. Ever.
  Tomorrow when you wake up, you still won't be able to prove negatives.
  Next year, you won't be able to prove negatives.
  The year after that, you won't be able to prove negatives.
  Anything you read in your life that claimed to prove negatives was lying to you. And yet, here you are, implying you've made that same stupid mistake multiple times, that you believed multiple times that a negative had been proven.
  Please try to be slightly less stupid, this is over the top!
18. Re:What it's really about by Aighearach · 2019-03-21 05:56 · Score: 1
  
  a) They don't typically complain about 50Hz mains, and there's no way a mains wire is emitting a magnetic field strong enough to sense (unless they're wrapping it around their heads)
  Just stop talking. The signal is strong enough to measure just by connecting a human to an oscilloscope.
  And you haven't measured the human sensitivity, so you don't know that part. Don't just lie and say you know, when it involves a small number of cells in the brain that human physiologists haven't measured the sensitivity of yet. Duh.
19. Re:What it's really about by Wulf2k · 2019-03-21 06:18 · Score: 1
  
  But can you prove that he can't do it?
20. Re:What it's really about by jeff4747 · 2019-03-21 06:25 · Score: 1
  
  No, it's still complete nonsense.
  People who claim to have it were tested in environments where the experimenter lied about the current conditions. For example, telling them the EM field was off when it was on, and telling them the EM field was on when it was off.
  The subjects claimed they could feel it when the experimenter said the field was on, regardless of the actual state of the EM field. Demonstrating that they were reacting to the experimenter and not the EM field.
21. Re:What it's really about by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 08:10 · Score: 0
  
  Not a double blind study then?
22. Re:What it's really about by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 08:58 · Score: 0
  
  Hasn't it been proven completely imaginary every time it has come up?
  Will you please stop saying stupid things like that? Please? For the rest of your life?
  You can't prove a negative. Ever.
  What have been tested isn't really a negative.
  It's just that plenty of people claiming to be hypersensitive to electromagnetism have been tested with double blind tests and there has never been any correlation between active fields and their "sensitivity".
  Electromagnetic hypersensitivity appears to only be a thing if the person can see the emitter and it is clearly antenna shaped.
  It also doesn't matter if the antenna is currently connected or emitting anything. It's mere visible presence triggers the "hypersensitive" person.
23. Re:What it's really about by jeff4747 · 2019-03-21 09:02 · Score: 1
  
  There were several studies, including double-blind studies. I was summarizing.
24. Re:What it's really about by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 09:36 · Score: 0
  
  We already know that people are sensitive to EM.
  Overexposure to sunlight will hurt people and increase the risk of cancer.
  You can even kill people with strong enough fields.
  Some people claim to be hypersensitive to very specific frequencies used by cellphones and WiFi but not much stronger signals used by AM and FM radio.
  Those have never been able to show that they can detect EM in a blind test.
25. Re:What it's really about by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 10:17 · Score: 0
  
  This could be a cultural issue rather than physiological. There are apparently some cultures that don't have words for left/right so their communication of orientation is entirely based on "compass" directions and they're constantly aware of which way is North. Like, if they're facing West they might talk about their North and South foot instead of Right and left.
26. Re:What it's really about by angel'o'sphere · 2019-03-21 10:19 · Score: 1
  
  The magnetic fields from wires in the environment are far too weak to have any effect.
  No they are not. They are ten to hundred times stronger than the earth magnetic field.
  (just like cellphone radiation could warm up your brain if it was in the kilowatt range, but it isn't...)
  Define warm up. 1/100 degree celsius is a warm up.
  
  --
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27. Re:What it's really about by angel'o'sphere · 2019-03-21 10:20 · Score: 1
  
  but I'm betting you will fairly quickly find out that they really don't "feel" it.
  I know enough people who actually do feel it. I guess if you pay the flight and some compensation for your time, they happily come to you and you can do your "double blind study" (Hint: it is not double blind when the objects know what is tested).
  
  --
  Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
28. Re:What it's really about by angel'o'sphere · 2019-03-21 10:24 · Score: 1
  
  Most people don't know that they are sensitive to EM or magnetic fields.
  I have a strong sense for orientation, perhaps I can feel magnetic fields ... never made such an experiment, so I don't know. I always guessed I use the sun and the stars to orientate ... or simply know from looking at a map days ago where north is ... no idea.
  Basically every migrating bird can sense the earth magnetic field, and that to a degree that they can follow the twists and whirls like the flow of a river to pinpoint their location and not only follow direction.
  
  --
  Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
29. Re:What it's really about by angel'o'sphere · 2019-03-21 10:27 · Score: 1
  
  Did you read the summary?
  The people did not even know what the experiment was about, moron.
  The experimenters measured the brain waves of the test subjects. And they clearly saw that the test subjects noticed the changes in the magnetic fields.
  They did not ask them; uh, do you feel anything?
  No idea why you want to argue bullshit about stuff you have no clue about and are on top of that to stupid to either read the summary, the article or to grasp it.
  
  --
  Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
30. Re:What it's really about by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 11:57 · Score: 0
  
  s/proven/sufficiently demonstrated to stand the assertion you lick your own ass
31. Re:What it's really about by bobbied · 2019-03-21 23:36 · Score: 1
  
  Double blind... Means you have randomized the study, twice, and during the study nobody participating can directly know when and to whom the stimulus is being applied. The point is to avoid any possible impact of the placebo effect or subconsciously communicating to the test subject the status of the stimulation.
  So, in this case, the WiFi signal would be turned on and off by one researcher, who would be changing switch settings for the power on the outside of a opaque box, but didn't know how the switches where wired or what settings would enable the WiFi and which disabled it. All they would do is pick the switch settings and record them outside the view of the test subject who wouldn't know when switches where changed or their positions. Another researcher would be asking the test subject the "how do you feel" questions and recording the results. This way, the research subject would never come into contact with someone who had come into contact with anyone who knew the state of the WiFi signal. Thus it's called double blind. In fact, in this case, nobody would actually know during the duration of the testing when the signal was or wasn't on because the wiring in the box generating the WiFi signal would be setup by a THIRD researcher who didn't come in contact with the others until after the test was conducted.
  I guarantee you that nobody "feels" WiFi at the allowed Part 15 power levels, even in close proximity. If they think they do, it's subconscious and they are actually responding to some other stimuli. I welcome the chance to prove that by conducting the above testing. I even know of a shielded room we can likely arrange to use for the testing and I'd be happy to cook up a randomized way to turn the RF on and off. All we need is a test subject...
  
  --
  "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
32. Re:What it's really about by jeff4747 · 2019-03-22 03:28 · Score: 1
  
  Did you read the thread?
  This thread was about EM sensitivity in general, moron.
  No idea why you can't follow a very short thread on a discussion board. On top of that to [sic] stupid to read the posts you are replying to or to grasp them.
34 participants to prove an effect this subtle? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-20 22:22 · Score: 1

I'm calling BS
1. Re:34 participants to prove an effect this subtle? by ShanghaiBill · 2019-03-20 22:50 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  A sample size of 34 is more than enough to establish statistical significance for the effect they measured. It is a common fallacy among non-statisticians to believe that a large sample size is needed for statistical significance, or that a larger sample size is needed for a larger population.
  Here is the original paper.
  There may be problems with this research, but "sample size" is not one of them.
2. Re:34 participants to prove an effect this subtle? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 00:29 · Score: 0
  
  To prove that *some* humans can sense the magnetic field, all you need is one participant (doing many many experiments).
  If you want to prove that *most* humans (so at least 50%) can sense the magnetic field, then using 5 participants can be sufficient if they all succeed.
  But the claim was that humans in general can sense the magnetic field. If we assume at the same level as "humans can see" and "humans can hear", then 99% of people should be able to sense the magnetic field, so even if 34 out of 34 participants succeed, this is not enough to suggest that 99% can do it.
3. Re:34 participants to prove an effect this subtle? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 01:48 · Score: 0
  
  Might want to read the next article before you apply too much importance to "statistical significance".
4. Re:34 participants to prove an effect this subtle? by sycodon · 2019-03-21 06:09 · Score: 2
  
  I can sense it just fine with my compass.
  
  --
  When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
5. Re:34 participants to prove an effect this subtle? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 06:32 · Score: 0
  
  34 out of 34 is 100%
Typical CA Professor by dcw3 · 2019-03-20 22:33 · Score: 0, Troll

This is nothing more than typical California hippy culture. They all feel is as they unblock the energy in their chakras.

--
Just another day in Paradise
Hell yes! by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-20 22:43 · Score: 0

Electrosensitivity is real. Destroy all wireless technology!
1. Re: Hell yes! by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-20 23:37 · Score: 0
  
  No no no no no
2. Re: Hell yes! by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 00:41 · Score: 0
  
  Here I was, about to go ahead with the destruction of all wireless technology as per GP! Thank you for knocking some sense into me again with your comment.
I was doing that as a kid by Laxator2 · 2019-03-20 22:46 · Score: 4, Funny

when my dad brought me a compass.
I could detect the Earth's magnetic field with my eyes, by follwoing the compass needle.
Later on I even felt the Earth's magnetic field with my fingers. I used a foot-long magetic rod and I was able to feel the small force as the rod was trying to align itself with the Earth's magnetic fiield.
1. Re:I was doing that as a kid by 110010001000 · 2019-03-21 01:27 · Score: 0
  
  Witchery! Get him boys!
2. Re:I was doing that as a kid by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 03:06 · Score: 0
  
  I have always found compasses useless since they always point at me. I tend to orient myself from a map and then track the sun. I also figure out how buildings are oriented (in regards to North) before entering them then build a "mental map" of my position in them so I know where I am facing. I'm useless at night though, I've never learned to use the stars.
3. Re:I was doing that as a kid by Aighearach · 2019-03-21 06:02 · Score: 1
  
  Dude! You were like, totally coupled to the magnetic field. You're lucky you didn't get a solar virus.
Re: 34 participants to prove an effect this subtle by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-20 23:11 · Score: 0

Summing up: everything normal humans can turn to face a direction, usually to McDonald's, where server uses magnet to clean up after customers and dump trash into recycling bin. Eventually people forget and have to read about it on slashdot. Film at 11. Happily ever after. Oh, and one robocleaner deserves another. Oswald McMeany will reply asking for money for his stupid shit, just ignore him.
Now research Schumann resonance by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-20 23:39 · Score: 0

Tesla was right. Marconi lied. Electromagnetic hypersensitivity is a thing.
sense of direction by sad_ · 2019-03-20 23:41 · Score: 1

some people just have an awesome sense of direction, and can't get lost no matter where you drop them of. other get lost in their own house, so to speak.
this skill/ability must come from somewhere, looks like some people are still able to tap into these brain signals (unknowingly?) to aid them finding their way.

--
On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
1. Re:sense of direction by religionofpeas · 2019-03-20 23:50 · Score: 4, Informative
  
  I have a decent sense of direction, but as far as I can tell it comes from tracking a virtual map, not a magnetic compass. This is especially obvious when walking curved streets or other confusing layouts that can completely mess up my sense of direction.
2. Re:sense of direction by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 00:29 · Score: 0
  
  but you still observe yoiur orientation relative to your mental path automatically
3. Re:sense of direction by Nidi62 · 2019-03-21 01:12 · Score: 1
  
  I have a decent sense of direction, but as far as I can tell it comes from tracking a virtual map, not a magnetic compass. This is especially obvious when walking curved streets or other confusing layouts that can completely mess up my sense of direction.
  I'm the same way: I can mentally orient myself towards landmarks I am familiar with, but couldn't tell you if I was facing north, northeast, south, southwest, etc (barring of course a rough guess based on the sun and the orientation of other known landmarks). But I use essentially a mental overhead map view to align myself.
  
  --
  The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for it to be pitted against a slightly greater evil
4. Re:sense of direction by quenda · 2019-03-21 01:42 · Score: 1
  
  this skill/ability must come from somewhere,
  People rely on lots of cues for direction.
  When I first visited the Northern hemisphere, there was a certain disorientation I later realised was from the sun moving the wrong way across the sky. (when it was visible at all!)
  Of course I'd always used shadows as a directional cue, but had never consciously thought about it before.
5. Re:sense of direction by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 02:36 · Score: 0
  
  I sometimes wonder about this. I usually have a very good sense of direction, even in new locations. I can generally tell which way is north, whether inside or outside. Some other people seem to have this too, while others couldn't tell me which way was west outside at sunset.
  It makes me wonder what cues or input the brain is handling. Is it a sense of magnetic north, just a memory sense of which way the person has been facing/turning, an internal map, directional cues out a window that we are not consciously aware of? I don't know, but I've always been interested in how some of us seem to know which way we are going and others do not.
6. Re:sense of direction by mjwx · 2019-03-21 02:47 · Score: 1
  
  I have a decent sense of direction, but as far as I can tell it comes from tracking a virtual map, not a magnetic compass. This is especially obvious when walking curved streets or other confusing layouts that can completely mess up my sense of direction.
  A bit of both. I've always been able to tell where north is, but also have an inbuilt ability to orienteer by landmarks. Being able to go N/E/S/W is useless if you don't know which way you're meant to be going.
  
  It's left/right directions that get me lost (not always because the kind of person who gives left/right directions invariably gets it wrong). I honestly struggle to remember how many lefts past Farmer Bumfuchs windmill I'm supposed to take, just give me an address, landmark, GPS or lat/long coordinates and stop waffling on about if "I see the bridge I've gone too far", my phone navigates better than most people could ever hope to.
  
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  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
7. Re:sense of direction by mjwx · 2019-03-21 02:49 · Score: 1
  
  I have a decent sense of direction, but as far as I can tell it comes from tracking a virtual map, not a magnetic compass. This is especially obvious when walking curved streets or other confusing layouts that can completely mess up my sense of direction.
  Living as an antipodean most of my life, it was travelling to the Northern Hemisphere that used to seriously mess up my sense of direction but in the most accurate way. I'd start walking south when I'd think it was north. After a while I learned to transpose north and south when north of the equator. Living in Europe for a while I've adjusted and I'm not sure how I'd handle an antipodean city I didn't know.
  
  --
  Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
8. Re:sense of direction by charliemerritt03 · 2019-03-21 03:25 · Score: 1
  
  I have a sense of direction that amazes my friends, I "just kinda know" which way is North, most of the time. I moved from a location with no magnetic declination to this town with an 8 degree declination - no I did not *ever* sense within 8 degrees - I lost my "sense of direction" for 6 months or so. I have been for a ride in an MRI several times and despite wanting very much to feel it I felt nothing and had no diminution of my ability to point North right after. I've been in caves when a friend takes out a compass and asks me which way his needle points - I am pretty accurate even in curved passageways. My MRI experience makes me suspect that "it" is not a magnetic sense. INS?
9. Re:sense of direction by Aighearach · 2019-03-21 06:05 · Score: 1
  
  That doesn't really line up with the physical mechanism of the known detection system, so I'm skeptical that it isn't just subconscious sensitivity to travel.
10. Re:sense of direction by angel'o'sphere · 2019-03-21 10:32 · Score: 1
  
  Close to the equator it is even more irritating.
  During day time the sun goes that way (e.g. slightly south of you, in case yo are e.g. at 10degrees north), and at night the moon goes another way, because of its inclination versus the earth orbit the moon is slightly north of you. So standing at the same spot at noon your shadow shows north and at midnight (full moon) your shadow points south.
  
  --
  Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
A changing magnetic field causes current by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-20 23:43 · Score: 0

I didn't read the study, but any changing magnetic field causes a current in nearby conductors, such as the "ugly bags of mostly salty water" that we are. How fast did the magnetic field change?
1. Re: A changing magnetic field causes current by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-20 23:55 · Score: 0
  
  It is subtle. A better experiment might be to expose the brain to more than one such field and then find a way to forcibly remove one and see if it can be detected more easily. If you google the subject you can find results on animals escaping a disaster having more clearly delineated travel patterns with respect to magnetic north.
Sit? No, it is Stand by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-20 23:46 · Score: 0

Stand in the place that you live, now face North.
Think about direction, wonder why you haven't before.

Now stand in the place where you work, Now face west, think about the place where you live
Wonder why you haven't before

If you are confused, check with the sun, carry a compass to help you along.
Sexist comment by methano · 2019-03-20 23:49 · Score: 2

Men Might Be Able To Sense Earth's Magnetic Field. Women, not so much.
1. Re:Sexist comment by quenda · 2019-03-21 01:46 · Score: 2
  
  Women navigate by landmarks, men by a mental map. Both require a sense of direction.
2. Re:Sexist comment by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 02:27 · Score: 0
  
  "Both require a sense of direction"
  Yeah except with women, direction is left and right.
What about tinfoil hats? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-20 23:53 · Score: 0

The people in charge of this experiment missed a golden opportunity to test the efficacity of tinfoil hats.
(Or maybe the government made sure they didn't).
If this is true then ... by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-20 23:53 · Score: 0

Then the magnetism emitted from cell phone and cell phone towers may be harmful afterall. WOW.
1. Re: If this is true then ... by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 00:14 · Score: 0
  
  .. See tinfoil hat comment above.
  You can rest assured that the Obama administration would never do anything bad. Real news would have immediately informed you of any danger. And there's absolutely no way 9-11 was a controlled demolition job. AE911Truth dot Org
  LOL
Re:Kreskin Knows Best by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-20 23:59 · Score: 0

If only Apple, a paragon of $$$$$$$$$$$$ could share a fraction of its fortune, made by embracing BSD... mais non...
just the earth's by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 00:17 · Score: 0

not my fridge magnets
Magnetic is electric is motion is heat by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 00:30 · Score: 1

Magnetic force *IS* electric force, which *IS* velocity. So yeh, we have electric flows, so of course we can detect magnetic fields.
Literally electric is a 1F oscillation (the universes resonant frequency), all those oscillations in the electron do NOT cancel out, the motion of the electron is complex not random.
Magnetic is an F/2 oscillation.
Velocity is wave surfing over the 1F field, you push a component of oscillation into the direction of travel, and each resonant oscillation, its a little bit more out of phase and shoved along a bit. The same mechanism for light and for matter (which is the same).
I'm playing with superconductivity now in sandbox simulation. If the electron (F2 donut / -ve monopole/ F2-anti-donut) travels along its edge, it has no magnetic field. All of the velocity in the spin of the donut is put into that "wave surfing" velocity of the electron. Each rotation takes it slightly out of phase and shifts along the field to stay in resonance. At any non-zero angle to the direction of velocity, the electron unpacks an F/2 oscillation, i.e. magnetic, but at zero all the spin goes into velocity.
Heat is oscillations too. It's any oscillation that (like velocity) takes an oscillating dipole away from resonance. Can you feel heat? Yeh of course you can, so you can detect magnetism.
***********
You can even prove magnetic is really electric force, because they can interact directly, not via the electron:
1. Produce a magnetic field, with near-linear field lines along an axis.
2. Take two superconducting plates and produce an electric field between them.
3. Place the plates cutting one side of the field lines. The electric field and magnetic field should be in the same axis (i.e. not Flemings RHR/LHR).
4. Superconducting plates do not have a magnetic field. So any interaction between the magnetic field and electric field between the plates must be direct, and not via induction-creates-counter-magnetic-field.
5. At this point the plate will be a 1F oscillating field, and magnetic field a F/2. Ever 2xF cycles everything cancels out. The plates will be oscillating tiny proton sized oscillations in the magnetic field.
6. Move the plates closers together, this should be resisted by the interaction of the electric and magnetic fields, it should require force to move the plates. As you disturb the resonance, it will require force.
7. Since there is no magnetic component from the plates, the interaction cannot be via magnetic force.
8. Conclude magnetic and electric are the same force because they directly interact.
9. Want more proof? Change the material in the plates to a material with a different magnetic property, the force is related to the electric field across the plates NOT the magnetic properties of the plates.
Electric (1F electric, the kind you know as electric) DIRECTLY interacts with F/2 magnetic.
I Can Do More Than Sense It. by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 00:32 · Score: 0

I can do more than sense it. I can manipulate it with my mind, and harness it's essence to alter the world around me. Right now, I'm using it to fuck all your mothers, all at once.
1. Re:I Can Do More Than Sense It. by Narcocide · 2019-03-21 01:25 · Score: 1
  
  Learn to respond to ping and then maybe you'll impress me.
Re: 34 participants to prove an effect this subtl by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 00:33 · Score: 0

Are you drunk?
Re: Kreskin Knows Best by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 00:38 · Score: 0

Oh man, here I came to learn something about human perception of magnetic fields.... And then you drop this bombshell!! It changed my while world view. I am a wiser person because of it.
Sexist comment by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 00:46 · Score: 0

I'm afreaid you just posted a sexist comment.
Wiring present, but not firmware? by kbahey · 2019-03-21 00:48 · Score: 1

To make an analogy, it looks like that the 'sensor' is there (possibly the cells with magnetic crystals in them), and it is wired to the microcontroller (that is why the normal Alpha wave subsides, as if an 'interrupt' has been received).
But what is missing is the 'firmware' to analyze and act on this interrupt. Seems pigeons and others have it and use it, but we lost it along our evolutionary history.
The paper also mentions certain human populations are candidates for further study, since they have languages that have no relative positions (no left, right, front, ...etc.), and rather have cardinal positions (north, south, ...).

--
2bits.com, Inc: Drupal, WordPress, and LAMP performance tuning.
This is not really new info by smallfeet · 2019-03-21 01:08 · Score: 1

I have an older book called 'The Magnet in your Nose' that talks about this.
Publish by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 01:08 · Score: 0

This study should go straight into the "Journal of Irreproducible Results"
Re: 34 participants to prove an effect this subt by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 01:35 · Score: 0

No no no
Smoking peppermint
Much better
Better Article by b0bby · 2019-03-21 02:29 · Score: 1

This Gizmodo article has some information that the Guardian article leaves out:
https://gizmodo.com/fascinatin...

The experiment involved 34 adult volunteers, who collectively participated in hundreds of trials; all tests were done in a double blind manner, and control groups were also included.
After the experiments, none of the participants said they could tell when or if any change to the magnetic field had occurred. But for four of the 34 participants, the EEG data told a different story.
As noted in the new study, the researchers recorded “a strong, specific human brain response” to simulated “rotations of Earth-strength magnetic fields.” Specifically, the magnetic stimulation caused a drop in the amplitude of EEG alpha waves between 8 and 13 Hertz—a response shown to be repeatable among those four participants, even months afterward. Two simple rotations of the magnetic field appeared to trigger the response—movements comparable to a person nodding their head up or down, or turning it from left to right.
It seems that this effect may not be present or measurable in every human brain.
Could this be the secret behind dowsing? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 02:31 · Score: 0

Water dowsing is one of those paranormal fields of expertise that despite having zero scientific basis (so far as we know), people who have a natural talent for "sensing" water have made very successful careers out of helping people find water when not even the latest technology can.
If it turns out they've been tapping into the magnetic field all along, I wonder if electronic devices could be made that simulate the process of dowsing? Water shortages are a real problem for most of the world, this would definitely be worth looking into.
1. Re: Could this be the secret behind dowsing? by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 03:21 · Score: 0
  
  I'm curious about this too, but what if these dowsers are successful only because after trying to drill a few wells, somebody got desperate and tried an alternative locating method. If there is water underground, maybe you were just unlucky with the first few attempts. Like marriage. Also, my guess is these cells are only sensetive to fields similar to Earth's field. So even if there is a sense, people saying they're bothered by wifi might still be bs.
Food by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 03:47 · Score: 0

My own experience. Most of the food I ate came from the area were I lived and I never got lost. At about the age of 23 this changed. And the food I ate started to come from a very wide area. I still have a very good sense of direction but it has slowly gotten worse.
Avoid Unnecessary MRI by bill_mcgonigle · 2019-03-21 04:10 · Score: 1

You should go for an MRI if you really need one, but be cautious about their over-use.
I spend a lot of time in the woods and have thus far avoided opting-in to optinal MRI's because of the [now old] suggestions that we might have a biological sense of direction. There was some study a while back that was able to destroy navigation ability in a bird species with MRI. Little bits of iron migrated out of the required cells, or some such thing.
Come to think if it I should point out to paranoid people that nobody needed to have GPS navigators before MRI's were invented. :P

--
My God, it's Full of Source!
OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
1. Re:Avoid Unnecessary MRI by angel'o'sphere · 2019-03-21 10:36 · Score: 1
  
  I use GPs navigation extremely rarely.
  Interestingly most map apps, unless they are commercial ones like tom tom, are so often wrong, that GPS basically is only good enough to get a rough clue about your location and direction ... is it already the next crossing I have to turn? Or the one after?
  I can not understand people who use GPS all the time for simple drives. Looking at the news how often people get lost in simple circumstances, like ending up on a runway, it is just ridiculous.
  
  --
  Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
I have a great sense of direction, but by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 04:17 · Score: 0

But I think it is mostly about reading visual clues, perhaps at an unconscious level. Shadows, moss, which direction animals have their home entrances - that kinda stuff. I sorta always know which way is north-y. Not perfectly, but within 10 deg or so.
I've tested this hiking around the world - North and central America, Europe, middle East, Central and eastern Asia. From 3 degN to over 65degN latitudes. It doesn't work in dark places or inside buildings without windows, so I'd always assumed it was just me reading the shadows from sunlight.
It does break down when I travel to the southern hemisphere. I feel odd, slightly lost and have to trust maps instead of just "knowing" which way is north. I chalk it up to inconsistent inputs - the Sun is in the wrong place. My tests failed, I got confused, in Africa and south America from about 25 degS to 56 degS latitudes. In the southern hemisphere, maps and GPS make up for my loss of natural ability.
In Singapore, 3 degN, I didn't notice the issue. Not much hiking there. Plus I was sweating all the time, even in winter.
Could there be something in my body providing hints for N/S? I suppose. Just noticed that my bed is aligned in a N/S line, which is slightly off square for the room. Never thought about it before. Hummmm. I'm still skeptical, but maybe there's something there, but probably nothing I can tap into.
Aluminum is not affected by magnetic fields by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 04:23 · Score: 0

> ... the walls of which were made of aluminium to shield the setup from electromagnetic interference
Aluminum would have the same effectiveness as wood or plastic against magnetism.
Magnetic braclets by Avatar_Yeehaw · 2019-03-21 05:52 · Score: 1

My mom use to wear (and swear by) magnetic bracelets (https://www.healthline.com/health/pain-relief/do-magnetic-bracelets-help-with-pain). She said they helped her arthritis pain. I tried them on and definitely felt something wierd.
1. Re: Magnetic braclets by zozo22 · 2019-03-21 07:38 · Score: 1
  
  after all so it's biologically possible. But there doesn't seem to be any mechanism of a person actually noticing it as a sense, so maybe these brain waves are just trees falling in the forest, nobody there to https://audacity.onl/ https://findmyiphone.onl/ https://origin.onl/
2. Re:Magnetic braclets by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-23 20:18 · Score: 0
  
  The placebo effect is strongest with pain management. So if you feel like they work then keep using them, but know that if someone switched the magnets with weights, you wouldn't notice and they'd still work.
  The chances those magnets are messing with the magnetic particles in your body in some way to reduce specific types of pain is near zero. If this is the case, then inverting the magnets should cause significant pain.
I donâ(TM)t know... by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 05:53 · Score: 0

But I have noticed on elevated subway platforms where my head passes by a high current circuit, usually while walking down stairs to the street, Iâ(TM)ll get a brief bout of vertigo when the subway initially starts to move.
hey " editor" by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 06:29 · Score: 0

Did you proof read this story before vomiting it on to this forum?
I count several typos
Edit this----> you are terrible at this work
So... by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 06:56 · Score: 0

Changes in brainwave activity were detected, but as long as people aren't even aware of *that*, I don't see how that translates into being able to perceive the magnetic field.
Not new by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 07:01 · Score: 0

This is not new, we have known this for years.
We have a circadian clock within use based on the magnetic field, and that frequency in our brain is the same frequency of the ionic cavity which is shared by most all animals on the planet.
Time travel now possible by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 07:37 · Score: 0

If I only forgot to put the crystals in, the time machine would have worked using the iron crystals in my skull!
Could it be race based by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 07:56 · Score: 0

I have often found that know where north is and my wife never knows. My wife is Chinese and not to bring up race but I have found that many of our Chinese friends have similar issues. I wonder if this sense could be more or less race-based.
As Taoist, we knew this from 2500 yrs ago by humaniverse · 2019-03-21 08:23 · Score: 1

Taoists have this directional sense in cultivating. If you know Fengshui, which is derived idea from Taoist, north/south are important, not only for human, also for any objects surrounding you. Gook luck, science finally gets there.
I predict a new fad by Anonymous Coward · 2019-03-21 13:46 · Score: 0

I predict a new fad in the field of magnetic sensory training, and a new elite of "magnetically aware" people, or at least people who claim to be so. These people will use their heightened magnetic awareness to separate themselves as superior, similar to the way so-called "audiophiles" claim to be superior in their appreciation of sound.
Look out, hot yoga, cleansing diets, and oxygen-free copper... magnetic awareness is coming for you.