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Humans Might Be Able To Sense Earth's Magnetic Field (theguardian.com)

Posted by BeauHD on from the pole-position dept.

A new study from researchers at the California Institute of Technology suggests that humans can sense the Earth's magnetic field. "We have not as a species lost the magnetic sensory system that our ancestors [millions of years ago] had," said Prof Joseph Kirschvink, leader of the research from the California Institute of Technology. "We are part of Earth's magnetic biosphere." The Guardian reports: Writing in the journal eNeuro, Kirschvink and colleagues in the U.S. and Japan describe how they made their discovery after building a six-sided cage, the walls of which were made of aluminium to shield the setup from electromagnetic interference. These walls also contained coils through which currents were passed to produce magnetic fields of about the same strength as Earth's. Each participant was asked to enter the cage and sit still on a wooden chair in the dark, facing straight ahead towards the north. During the experiment, the team measured the participant's brain waves using an electroencephalogram (EEG).

In some experiments the applied magnetic fields were fixed in one direction, while in others they were rotated. In still others the machines were turned on but no magnetic field was produced -- meaning the participant was only exposed to Earth's natural magnetic field. The participant was unaware which experiment was under way. The results, gathered from 34 adult participants, revealed that certain scenarios triggered a drop in participants' alpha brain waves -- a change that is linked to the brain processing information. This occurred if the applied magnetic field was pointed north and then swept upwards or downwards, or directed down while pointing north and rotated anticlockwise. That is similar to a human in the northern hemisphere nodding their head, or turning their head to the right respectively. Kirschvink said the responses showed that the brain was clocking an unexpected change in the environment. "Crucially, he said, it means that humans must be ale to detect such changes -- although the strength of the response varied hugely among participants," reports The Guardian.

The authors say the new research suggests the human system can tell north from south via a mechanism involving special cells containing iron-based crystals. "These crystals are thought to rotate rather like the needle of a compass, opening or closing pores in the cells, thereby affecting signals being sent to the brain," the report adds.

46 of 106 comments (clear)

  1. What it's really about by r2kordmaa · · Score: 4, Informative

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?... Here's a video of it in action. So it demonstrates that there is a mechanism where changing magnetic field results in brain signals, maybe if there is no error in experiment. Which kinda makes sense, it does work for other animals after all so it's biologically possible. But there doesn't seem to be any mechanism of a person actually noticing it as a sense, so maybe these brain waves are just trees falling in the forest, nobody there to hear.

    1. Re:What it's really about by Vihai · · Score: 1

      That has also be tested and no evidence has been found.

    2. Re:What it's really about by bobbied · · Score: 2

      but there is a quick and effective way to test if they can 'feel" it or not.

      It's called a double blind study, where you put them in a shielded box, and turn the WiFi on and off randomly and ask them if they can feel it at random intervals and see if they can tell you more often than chance if the WiFi is on or off. It might take a couple of days, but I'm betting you will fairly quickly find out that they really don't "feel" it.

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    3. Re:What it's really about by skovnymfe · · Score: 1

      Hasn't it been proven completely imaginary every time it has come up?

    4. Re:What it's really about by Applehu+Akbar · · Score: 2

      Why not test a sample of people who claim to have EM sensitivity against a random selection of subjects? The results of this will be of great interest either to researchers or to the self-identified EM sensitives.

    5. Re:What it's really about by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Electromagnetic hypersensitivity might not be complete nonsense then, magnetic fields changing at 50/60 hz might mess some people up.

      a) They don't typically complain about 50Hz mains, and there's no way a mains wire is emitting a magnetic field strong enough to sense (unless they're wrapping it around their heads)
      b) They typically complain about cellphones, WiFi routers, etc.
      c) Going outdoors a long way from any electronics would make them very ill indeed because of the sun's rays and earth's magnetism.
      d) Please don't give them any more ideas for reasons to try to be ill until this is a 100% proven thing.

      --
      No sig today...
    6. Re:What it's really about by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      I don't disagree with you, but "no evidence found" and "falsified hypothesis" are different things.

      a) It's almost as if you don't know that falsifying a negative is logically impossible.
      b) There's the James Randi $1 million prize for anybody who can demonstrate a positive in a double-blind test.
      c) And several other prizes, too.

      --
      No sig today...
    7. Re:What it's really about by Joce640k · · Score: 1

      Just because prior testing failed to confirm the effect, doesn't mean you have demonstrated there is no effect.

      No, but we've proved that a lot of people that claim to be able to directly observe an effect are deluding themselves.

      When that happens, the burden of proof shifts over to them, not us.

      It usually turns out they don't even know the four steps of the basic scientific method, let alone how to set up a double-blind experiment.

      Any measurable effect on the brain tells you any hypothesis that claims there is no way for people to directly perceive magnetic effects might be wrong.

      Sure, but where would these magnetic fields come from? The magnetic fields from wires in the environment are far too weak to have any effect.

      (just like cellphone radiation could warm up your brain if it was in the kilowatt range, but it isn't...)

      --
      No sig today...
    8. Re:What it's really about by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      They already did. The WiFi sensitive people reported sensing WiFi whenever the red light on the device came on, and went away when the light went off. The interesting part was they tested with the light on with WiFi off, and WiFi on with the light off.

    9. Re:What it's really about by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Hasn't it been proven completely imaginary every time it has come up?

      Will you please stop saying stupid things like that? Please? For the rest of your life?

      You can't prove a negative. Ever.

      Tomorrow when you wake up, you still won't be able to prove negatives.

      Next year, you won't be able to prove negatives.

      The year after that, you won't be able to prove negatives.

      Anything you read in your life that claimed to prove negatives was lying to you. And yet, here you are, implying you've made that same stupid mistake multiple times, that you believed multiple times that a negative had been proven.

      Please try to be slightly less stupid, this is over the top!

    10. Re:What it's really about by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      a) They don't typically complain about 50Hz mains, and there's no way a mains wire is emitting a magnetic field strong enough to sense (unless they're wrapping it around their heads)

      Just stop talking. The signal is strong enough to measure just by connecting a human to an oscilloscope.

      And you haven't measured the human sensitivity, so you don't know that part. Don't just lie and say you know, when it involves a small number of cells in the brain that human physiologists haven't measured the sensitivity of yet. Duh.

    11. Re:What it's really about by Wulf2k · · Score: 1

      But can you prove that he can't do it?

    12. Re:What it's really about by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      No, it's still complete nonsense.

      People who claim to have it were tested in environments where the experimenter lied about the current conditions. For example, telling them the EM field was off when it was on, and telling them the EM field was on when it was off.

      The subjects claimed they could feel it when the experimenter said the field was on, regardless of the actual state of the EM field. Demonstrating that they were reacting to the experimenter and not the EM field.

    13. Re:What it's really about by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      There were several studies, including double-blind studies. I was summarizing.

    14. Re:What it's really about by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      The magnetic fields from wires in the environment are far too weak to have any effect.
      No they are not. They are ten to hundred times stronger than the earth magnetic field.

      (just like cellphone radiation could warm up your brain if it was in the kilowatt range, but it isn't...)
      Define warm up. 1/100 degree celsius is a warm up.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    15. Re:What it's really about by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      but I'm betting you will fairly quickly find out that they really don't "feel" it.
      I know enough people who actually do feel it. I guess if you pay the flight and some compensation for your time, they happily come to you and you can do your "double blind study" (Hint: it is not double blind when the objects know what is tested).

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    16. Re:What it's really about by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Most people don't know that they are sensitive to EM or magnetic fields.

      I have a strong sense for orientation, perhaps I can feel magnetic fields ... never made such an experiment, so I don't know. I always guessed I use the sun and the stars to orientate ... or simply know from looking at a map days ago where north is ... no idea.

      Basically every migrating bird can sense the earth magnetic field, and that to a degree that they can follow the twists and whirls like the flow of a river to pinpoint their location and not only follow direction.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    17. Re:What it's really about by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Did you read the summary?

      The people did not even know what the experiment was about, moron.

      The experimenters measured the brain waves of the test subjects. And they clearly saw that the test subjects noticed the changes in the magnetic fields.

      They did not ask them; uh, do you feel anything?

      No idea why you want to argue bullshit about stuff you have no clue about and are on top of that to stupid to either read the summary, the article or to grasp it.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    18. Re:What it's really about by bobbied · · Score: 1

      Double blind... Means you have randomized the study, twice, and during the study nobody participating can directly know when and to whom the stimulus is being applied. The point is to avoid any possible impact of the placebo effect or subconsciously communicating to the test subject the status of the stimulation.

      So, in this case, the WiFi signal would be turned on and off by one researcher, who would be changing switch settings for the power on the outside of a opaque box, but didn't know how the switches where wired or what settings would enable the WiFi and which disabled it. All they would do is pick the switch settings and record them outside the view of the test subject who wouldn't know when switches where changed or their positions. Another researcher would be asking the test subject the "how do you feel" questions and recording the results. This way, the research subject would never come into contact with someone who had come into contact with anyone who knew the state of the WiFi signal. Thus it's called double blind. In fact, in this case, nobody would actually know during the duration of the testing when the signal was or wasn't on because the wiring in the box generating the WiFi signal would be setup by a THIRD researcher who didn't come in contact with the others until after the test was conducted.

      I guarantee you that nobody "feels" WiFi at the allowed Part 15 power levels, even in close proximity. If they think they do, it's subconscious and they are actually responding to some other stimuli. I welcome the chance to prove that by conducting the above testing. I even know of a shielded room we can likely arrange to use for the testing and I'd be happy to cook up a randomized way to turn the RF on and off. All we need is a test subject...

      --
      "File to fit, pound to insert, paint to match" - Aircraft Maintenance 101
    19. Re:What it's really about by jeff4747 · · Score: 1

      Did you read the thread?

      This thread was about EM sensitivity in general, moron.

      No idea why you can't follow a very short thread on a discussion board. On top of that to [sic] stupid to read the posts you are replying to or to grasp them.

  2. 34 participants to prove an effect this subtle? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    I'm calling BS

    1. Re:34 participants to prove an effect this subtle? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      A sample size of 34 is more than enough to establish statistical significance for the effect they measured. It is a common fallacy among non-statisticians to believe that a large sample size is needed for statistical significance, or that a larger sample size is needed for a larger population.

      Here is the original paper.

      There may be problems with this research, but "sample size" is not one of them.

    2. Re:34 participants to prove an effect this subtle? by sycodon · · Score: 2

      I can sense it just fine with my compass.

      --
      When Fascism comes to America, it will call itself Anti-Fascism, and tell you to give up your guns.
  3. I was doing that as a kid by Laxator2 · · Score: 4, Funny

    when my dad brought me a compass.
    I could detect the Earth's magnetic field with my eyes, by follwoing the compass needle.
    Later on I even felt the Earth's magnetic field with my fingers. I used a foot-long magetic rod and I was able to feel the small force as the rod was trying to align itself with the Earth's magnetic fiield.

    1. Re:I was doing that as a kid by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      Dude! You were like, totally coupled to the magnetic field. You're lucky you didn't get a solar virus.

  4. sense of direction by sad_ · · Score: 1

    some people just have an awesome sense of direction, and can't get lost no matter where you drop them of. other get lost in their own house, so to speak.
    this skill/ability must come from somewhere, looks like some people are still able to tap into these brain signals (unknowingly?) to aid them finding their way.

    --
    On a long enough timeline, the survival rate for everyone drops to zero.
    1. Re:sense of direction by religionofpeas · · Score: 4, Informative

      I have a decent sense of direction, but as far as I can tell it comes from tracking a virtual map, not a magnetic compass. This is especially obvious when walking curved streets or other confusing layouts that can completely mess up my sense of direction.

    2. Re:sense of direction by Nidi62 · · Score: 1

      I have a decent sense of direction, but as far as I can tell it comes from tracking a virtual map, not a magnetic compass. This is especially obvious when walking curved streets or other confusing layouts that can completely mess up my sense of direction.

      I'm the same way: I can mentally orient myself towards landmarks I am familiar with, but couldn't tell you if I was facing north, northeast, south, southwest, etc (barring of course a rough guess based on the sun and the orientation of other known landmarks). But I use essentially a mental overhead map view to align myself.

      --
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    3. Re:sense of direction by quenda · · Score: 1

      this skill/ability must come from somewhere,

      People rely on lots of cues for direction.
      When I first visited the Northern hemisphere, there was a certain disorientation I later realised was from the sun moving the wrong way across the sky. (when it was visible at all!)
      Of course I'd always used shadows as a directional cue, but had never consciously thought about it before.

    4. Re:sense of direction by mjwx · · Score: 1

      I have a decent sense of direction, but as far as I can tell it comes from tracking a virtual map, not a magnetic compass. This is especially obvious when walking curved streets or other confusing layouts that can completely mess up my sense of direction.

      A bit of both. I've always been able to tell where north is, but also have an inbuilt ability to orienteer by landmarks. Being able to go N/E/S/W is useless if you don't know which way you're meant to be going.

      It's left/right directions that get me lost (not always because the kind of person who gives left/right directions invariably gets it wrong). I honestly struggle to remember how many lefts past Farmer Bumfuchs windmill I'm supposed to take, just give me an address, landmark, GPS or lat/long coordinates and stop waffling on about if "I see the bridge I've gone too far", my phone navigates better than most people could ever hope to.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    5. Re:sense of direction by mjwx · · Score: 1

      I have a decent sense of direction, but as far as I can tell it comes from tracking a virtual map, not a magnetic compass. This is especially obvious when walking curved streets or other confusing layouts that can completely mess up my sense of direction.

      Living as an antipodean most of my life, it was travelling to the Northern Hemisphere that used to seriously mess up my sense of direction but in the most accurate way. I'd start walking south when I'd think it was north. After a while I learned to transpose north and south when north of the equator. Living in Europe for a while I've adjusted and I'm not sure how I'd handle an antipodean city I didn't know.

      --
      Calling someone a "hater" only means you can not rationally rebut their argument.
    6. Re:sense of direction by charliemerritt03 · · Score: 1

      I have a sense of direction that amazes my friends, I "just kinda know" which way is North, most of the time. I moved from a location with no magnetic declination to this town with an 8 degree declination - no I did not *ever* sense within 8 degrees - I lost my "sense of direction" for 6 months or so. I have been for a ride in an MRI several times and despite wanting very much to feel it I felt nothing and had no diminution of my ability to point North right after. I've been in caves when a friend takes out a compass and asks me which way his needle points - I am pretty accurate even in curved passageways. My MRI experience makes me suspect that "it" is not a magnetic sense. INS?

    7. Re:sense of direction by Aighearach · · Score: 1

      That doesn't really line up with the physical mechanism of the known detection system, so I'm skeptical that it isn't just subconscious sensitivity to travel.

    8. Re:sense of direction by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      Close to the equator it is even more irritating.
      During day time the sun goes that way (e.g. slightly south of you, in case yo are e.g. at 10degrees north), and at night the moon goes another way, because of its inclination versus the earth orbit the moon is slightly north of you. So standing at the same spot at noon your shadow shows north and at midnight (full moon) your shadow points south.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  5. Sexist comment by methano · · Score: 2

    Men Might Be Able To Sense Earth's Magnetic Field. Women, not so much.

    1. Re:Sexist comment by quenda · · Score: 2

      Women navigate by landmarks, men by a mental map. Both require a sense of direction.

  6. Magnetic is electric is motion is heat by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    Magnetic force *IS* electric force, which *IS* velocity. So yeh, we have electric flows, so of course we can detect magnetic fields.

    Literally electric is a 1F oscillation (the universes resonant frequency), all those oscillations in the electron do NOT cancel out, the motion of the electron is complex not random.
    Magnetic is an F/2 oscillation.
    Velocity is wave surfing over the 1F field, you push a component of oscillation into the direction of travel, and each resonant oscillation, its a little bit more out of phase and shoved along a bit. The same mechanism for light and for matter (which is the same).

    I'm playing with superconductivity now in sandbox simulation. If the electron (F2 donut / -ve monopole/ F2-anti-donut) travels along its edge, it has no magnetic field. All of the velocity in the spin of the donut is put into that "wave surfing" velocity of the electron. Each rotation takes it slightly out of phase and shifts along the field to stay in resonance. At any non-zero angle to the direction of velocity, the electron unpacks an F/2 oscillation, i.e. magnetic, but at zero all the spin goes into velocity.

    Heat is oscillations too. It's any oscillation that (like velocity) takes an oscillating dipole away from resonance. Can you feel heat? Yeh of course you can, so you can detect magnetism.

    ***********

    You can even prove magnetic is really electric force, because they can interact directly, not via the electron:

    1. Produce a magnetic field, with near-linear field lines along an axis.

    2. Take two superconducting plates and produce an electric field between them.

    3. Place the plates cutting one side of the field lines. The electric field and magnetic field should be in the same axis (i.e. not Flemings RHR/LHR).

    4. Superconducting plates do not have a magnetic field. So any interaction between the magnetic field and electric field between the plates must be direct, and not via induction-creates-counter-magnetic-field.

    5. At this point the plate will be a 1F oscillating field, and magnetic field a F/2. Ever 2xF cycles everything cancels out. The plates will be oscillating tiny proton sized oscillations in the magnetic field.

    6. Move the plates closers together, this should be resisted by the interaction of the electric and magnetic fields, it should require force to move the plates. As you disturb the resonance, it will require force.

    7. Since there is no magnetic component from the plates, the interaction cannot be via magnetic force.

    8. Conclude magnetic and electric are the same force because they directly interact.

    9. Want more proof? Change the material in the plates to a material with a different magnetic property, the force is related to the electric field across the plates NOT the magnetic properties of the plates.

    Electric (1F electric, the kind you know as electric) DIRECTLY interacts with F/2 magnetic.

  7. Wiring present, but not firmware? by kbahey · · Score: 1

    To make an analogy, it looks like that the 'sensor' is there (possibly the cells with magnetic crystals in them), and it is wired to the microcontroller (that is why the normal Alpha wave subsides, as if an 'interrupt' has been received).

    But what is missing is the 'firmware' to analyze and act on this interrupt. Seems pigeons and others have it and use it, but we lost it along our evolutionary history.

    The paper also mentions certain human populations are candidates for further study, since they have languages that have no relative positions (no left, right, front, ...etc.), and rather have cardinal positions (north, south, ...).

    --
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  8. This is not really new info by smallfeet · · Score: 1

    I have an older book called 'The Magnet in your Nose' that talks about this.

  9. Re:I Can Do More Than Sense It. by Narcocide · · Score: 1

    Learn to respond to ping and then maybe you'll impress me.

  10. Better Article by b0bby · · Score: 1

    This Gizmodo article has some information that the Guardian article leaves out:

    https://gizmodo.com/fascinatin...

    The experiment involved 34 adult volunteers, who collectively participated in hundreds of trials; all tests were done in a double blind manner, and control groups were also included.

    After the experiments, none of the participants said they could tell when or if any change to the magnetic field had occurred. But for four of the 34 participants, the EEG data told a different story.

    As noted in the new study, the researchers recorded “a strong, specific human brain response” to simulated “rotations of Earth-strength magnetic fields.” Specifically, the magnetic stimulation caused a drop in the amplitude of EEG alpha waves between 8 and 13 Hertz—a response shown to be repeatable among those four participants, even months afterward. Two simple rotations of the magnetic field appeared to trigger the response—movements comparable to a person nodding their head up or down, or turning it from left to right.

    It seems that this effect may not be present or measurable in every human brain.

  11. Avoid Unnecessary MRI by bill_mcgonigle · · Score: 1

    You should go for an MRI if you really need one, but be cautious about their over-use.

    I spend a lot of time in the woods and have thus far avoided opting-in to optinal MRI's because of the [now old] suggestions that we might have a biological sense of direction. There was some study a while back that was able to destroy navigation ability in a bird species with MRI. Little bits of iron migrated out of the required cells, or some such thing.

    Come to think if it I should point out to paranoid people that nobody needed to have GPS navigators before MRI's were invented. :P

    --
    My God, it's Full of Source!
    OUTSIDE_IP=$(dig +short my.ip @outsideip.net)
    1. Re:Avoid Unnecessary MRI by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 1

      I use GPs navigation extremely rarely.
      Interestingly most map apps, unless they are commercial ones like tom tom, are so often wrong, that GPS basically is only good enough to get a rough clue about your location and direction ... is it already the next crossing I have to turn? Or the one after?

      I can not understand people who use GPS all the time for simple drives. Looking at the news how often people get lost in simple circumstances, like ending up on a runway, it is just ridiculous.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
  12. Magnetic braclets by Avatar_Yeehaw · · Score: 1

    My mom use to wear (and swear by) magnetic bracelets (https://www.healthline.com/health/pain-relief/do-magnetic-bracelets-help-with-pain). She said they helped her arthritis pain. I tried them on and definitely felt something wierd.

    1. Re: Magnetic braclets by zozo22 · · Score: 1

      after all so it's biologically possible. But there doesn't seem to be any mechanism of a person actually noticing it as a sense, so maybe these brain waves are just trees falling in the forest, nobody there to https://audacity.onl/ https://findmyiphone.onl/ https://origin.onl/

  13. As Taoist, we knew this from 2500 yrs ago by humaniverse · · Score: 1

    Taoists have this directional sense in cultivating. If you know Fengshui, which is derived idea from Taoist, north/south are important, not only for human, also for any objects surrounding you. Gook luck, science finally gets there.