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US Companies Are Moving Tech Jobs To Canada Rather Than Deal With Trump's Immigration Policies, Report Says (recode.net)
US companies are going to keep hiring foreign tech workers, even as the Trump administration makes doing so more difficult. For a number of US companies that means expanding their operations in Canada, where hiring foreign nationals is much easier. From a report: Demand for international workers remained high this year, according to a new Envoy Global survey of more than 400 US hiring professionals, who represent big and small US companies and have all had experience hiring foreign employees. Some 80 percent of employers expect their foreign worker headcount to either increase or stay the same in 2019, according to Envoy, which helps US companies navigate immigration laws. That tracks with US government immigration data, which shows a growing number of applicants for high-skilled tech visas, known as H-1Bs, despite stricter policies toward immigration. H-1B recipients are all backed by US companies that say they are in need of specialized labor that isn't readily available in the US -- which, in practice, includes a lot of tech workers. Major US tech companies, including Google, Facebook, and Amazon, have all been advocating for quicker and more generous high-skilled immigration policies. To do so they've increased lobbying spending on immigration.
That's been going on for some time.
Since the Bush years we often had to deal with tech seminars and conferences where they were moved out of the U.S. because many of the participants couldn't deal with U.S. Customs and Border enforcement. If you weren't a white European you were basically treated like shit and assumed to be a terrorist unless you could prove otherwise.
Also, the corporate tax rate in Canada is very competitive, and health care premiums are much, much lower thanks to universal single-payer health care. Plus, if your income is in USD but your salaries are in CAD, you get a nice little boost.
I know it's hip & trendy to blame Trump for everything under the sun, these movements have been happening for longer than he has been in office. Ex: https://www.geekwire.com/2016/trudeau-speak-opening-microsoft-vancouver-facility/
Seems like, if companies have a lot of demand for workers, and it's harder to reign in foreign workers, that it's good news for legal U.S. workers already here...
Some things may be moving to Canada but even the summary sure made it look as if the tech market in the U.S. was still growing also. Which you'd honestly expect.
"There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
I've lost jobs to Canadian outsourcing because companies didn't want to deal with our screwed up healthcare system. One of the worst/best was when a US based insurance company moved it's call center operations to Canada.
That said, if this really is just H1-Bs shifting to Canada I find it really hard to care. I couldn't have gotten those jobs anyway and to be blunt I see very, very little of the benefits from immigration here in America. Without robust set of programs to take advantage of those economic wealth generated it's all just money going to the top. Even small businesses can be hurt since they're left to compete with companies that can hire engineers for less money (though it's debatable whether wage depression brought on by the influx of cheap labor offsets that).
Hi! I make Firefox Plug-ins. Check 'em out @ https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/youtube-mp3-podcaster/
in another country than it is to hire developers older than 40 and pay them for their skills??
The title implies that tech companies are not dealing with the immigration policies. The summary says that they are dealing with them, and dealing with them so well that they are hiring equal or greater numbers of foreign workers. Which is it?
Let's look at the article and see:
“Due to a shortage of green cards for workers, many employees find themselves stuck in an immigration process lasting more than a decade. These employees must repeatedly renew their temporary work visas..."
That problem has existed for >20 years. Much of the article reads the same way:
...there aren’t enough skilled Americans...
...US companies are hiring outside the US...
Most of this could have been written in 1995 and nothing would sound different.
But this is slightly different:
Recent immigration data shows the US is issuing fewer total visas to these types of workers than in previous years. This is a result of an executive order Trump issued...
This quote links to an article showing that only 75% of H-1B visa applications are being accepted. But that conflicts with the statement
Some GOOD news:
Take a look at the chart in the article showing which companies are getting their Visa's rejected. Microsoft, Amazon, Google -- 99% acceptance. Tata consulting: 78%. Accenture: 69%. Good riddance! Companies like Tata and Accenture are the real abusers of H1-B. These firms just hire as many H1-B applicants as they possibly can, and then find jobs for them later by promising other companies they can do the same job for less, then offshoring the work later. That's a garbage business model and if that's the only companies having trouble than good riddance!
As a Canadian working many years as a software developer, while I'm sure examples can be found where this is happening, 99% of the work is still in the U.S. And U.S. employers, as much as they like to complain they cannot find enough developers, are reluctant if not outright 100% against hiring people working in Canada, even with the CAD USD difference.
Just try and convince a hiring manager that you'll get the work done from Canada while the company is U.S. based! I've tried several hundreds of times over the last few decades.
Unless you're willing to move down to the U.S. and be sitting in an office chair at their location 9-5 M-F, you'll never get a call back from HR or the hiring manager.
You realize that when he said that, the top income tax bracket was a 91% tax. Now it's ~35%. The right solution is raising income taxes on the ultra rich (10M income per year?) to 50% or more, and raising capital gains tax to the same amount to make it so the rich have to give back to the economy rather than buying more private jets.
We can then get H1B's and abuse the system.
[John]
Shit better not happen!
I'm more than happy to let Canada win the race to the bottom. The "disaster" of big west coast tech employers having to *gasp* hire US citizens hasn't kept them from expanding.
When I was at Amazon, it was amazing how fast the story on my team switched from "we'd be happy to hire US citizens, we just can't find qualified people" to "we hired 3 US citizens this quarter, no problem" when we needed 3 people who could apply for top secret clearance. Amazing coincidence, really, how those previously non-existent qualified US workers suddenly appeared from nowhere when it became a benefit to the company.
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Then the H1B to green card transition became hard, the waiting lists got longer, and USA was losing its charm for the elite graduates. At the same time, Indian economy boomed, these grads were getting great career prospects back at home. The stream of resumes with IIT BTech has dwindled to nearly nothing.
Let Canada keep them. When USCompanies realize most of them are duds, it will be Canada's problem, bot ours.
sed -e 's/Chuck Norris/Rajnikant/g' joke > fact
1. Nice lie. It's not "get rid of CAFE standards". It's "don't price the working class out of cars". Physics is a bitch, and she doesn't care about your green agenda.
2. It's not about the trade balance; it's about unfair competition and dumping. The Chinese were deliberately, and successfully, dumping to destroy the US steel industry. Jobs are the campaign slogan, but the real problem is national security. Without domestic steel production, our entire economy is completely vulnerable to the Chinese Navy. Just like China and electric vehicles: with only a trivial petroleum reserve, they realize their economy is completely vulnerable to the US Navy or Lloyds shutting down their economy.
3. Keep out the damn illegals. You keep lying and lying and lying, but the republicans are tired of the left-wing importing illegals in the hope of getting more voters. Stop lying. It's not about immigration, it's about illegals. In fact, when you narrow down to groups, it's the progressives who are being hurt the worst, and most aware of the damages from H1B abuses.
It's sad that we're going to suffer batshit insane because so many people like you are incapable of critical thought and unwilling to consider the geopolitical context or listen to your neighbors.
No one cares about your time working in the warehouse fatboy.
I can guarantee you I'd weigh a lot less if I had worked at the warehouse!
Socialism: a lie told by totalitarians and believed by fools.
Theory: "We want the very best developers and engineers from around the world to supercharge the American economy!"
Reality: "Hey, my cousin Sanjay knows Sharepoint. Let's write the job rec so narrowly tailored that we can get him into the country on an H-1B."
Lawrence Person (lawrencepersonh@gmailh.com (remove all "h"s to mail)
http://www.lawrenceperson.com/
Wait...so, from this headline, am I to infer that most of our tech workers needed and used by US companies, are illegal mexicans coming across the border, and the 'wall' is keeping these needed I.T. workers away from the US tech firms that need them, so they are now moving to Canada?
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
Not from where I'm sitting. We hire all the Americans we can find, but we just can't find enough who can meet our requirements. We pay very well, have great benefits, etc. Doesn't matter. It's not a problem of finding people willing to work, it's a problem of finding people who can do the job. The only way to get enough good people is to hire globally. If that means more teams have to be based outside of the US, so be it.
If the process continues for long enough that our teams are primarily based outside of the US, then that will mean that Americans who want those jobs will have to move out of the country to get them. Assuming the other countries don't decide to reciprocate on the visa policies... if they do, then the Americans will just be SOL.
Note to ACs: I usually delete AC replies without reading them. If you want to talk to me, log in.
In 1963, with the income taxes only 50 years old at the time, JFK said, "“The largest single barrier to full employment of our manpower and resources and to a higher rate of economic growth is the unrealistically heavy drag of federal income taxes on private purchasing power, initiative and incentive.” John F. Kennedy, Jan. 24, 1963 " He was right.
[Citation Required]
'Cause JFK did slash income taxes.....and there was not a corresponding boom of economic activity.
If you're going to cite his statement, you also need to include the history of what happened when people followed his plan. And it did not have the effect JFK claimed it would.
he little thing about repealing the corporate income tax would have those companies, and all the rest of the companies on the planet at least WANTING to move their operations to the USA where they could operate without having their profits stolen by the gov't.
Only if you ignore that they're spending more money to buy goods and services to pay your consumption tax.
No taxes on the used car.
Your plan does not repeal property taxes. Also, car dealers are offering a service, thus putting them under your consumption tax.
No taxes on the used (existing) house, only taxes if you build a new house
Your plan does not repeal property taxes. Also, there are currently no taxes paid when you buy a house, new or "used" (there are various recording fees). However you did just massively jack up the price of all of the components of the house, massively driving up home prices.
No taxes on the money you make and use for savings
Only if your savings is under your mattress. If you invest your savings, guess what? You're using a service and the tax man cometh.
tuition
....isn't taxed today.
money used to pay your state taxes, car license fees
Were deductible until the Republicans decided to raise individual income taxes to offset a fraction of their corporate tax cut.
because of the lack of at least the Federal gov't tromping thru the door to steal a portion of the business' profits each year.
Instead, the Federal government would tromp through the door to raise the cost of all the goods and services those companies buy.
Money's fungible, yo. Tax income or tax consumption, you're still taking money from the business.
Funny....My taxes went down due to the tax cuts, and I"m firmly middle class.
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.........
the rich consume like hell
No, they really don't. The poor consume 100% of their income. That's a big part of why we call them "poor".
The rich consume far less than 100% of their income.
The absolute value of their consumption is higher, but absolute value does not tell you anything about the effect your taxes have on that taxpayer. The percent of their income subject to your taxes does.
All of a poor person's income is subject to your tax, because they're spending all of their paycheck on goods and services. Only a portion of a rich person's income is subject to your tax, because they're not spending all of their "paycheck" on goods and services.
Also healthcare benefits.
I used to work with an Indian visa worker. He could hardly believe US healthcare expenses. Even with health insurance he could barely afford the deductibles and the stuff the insurance would not pay for.
Healthcare in Mexico is much more affordable.
in a few shitty companies outsourcing.
Hey Anonymous Coward, here in Vancouver, the large offices of "a few shitty companies outsourcing" include Amazon, Microsoft, SalesForce, Slack and Electronic Arts.
https://www.straight.com/files...
Those are big and fairly famous. But it doesn't necessarily follow that they aren't shitty, though.
Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
The way to raise taxes on the rich is to pass the consumption tax, because... the rich consume like hell, and consumption taxes are harder to evade, you have to go beyond simply 1 person lying about their income, to 2 people, the buyer and the seller, both putting themselves at risk for prison on a conspiracy charge, to avoid a consumption tax. The seller, BTW, gets nothing out of such a scheme except that risk of prison.
That's not true. The problem with giving money to rich people is that they don't need it for their daily lives. They already have all the stuff they want. And when they are making 10x, 100x or whatever absurd amount more than the median income, they don't spent it all if they are currently making it. Instead it goes into index funds, bonds, and (often foreign) luxury goods, basically asset bubbles. When you give money to the middle class they usually buy electronics and cars (both exporting to foreign companies or workers) or real estate (creating an asset bubble). When you give money to poor folks it usually goes into the local economy to buy basics. Trickle down economics has been time and time again proved to be false. And a consumption tax would be horribly regressive and since we know trickle down doesn't work, we want to avoid regression taxation. Note: this includes "sin" taxes which are often very regressive.
"Those that start by burning books, will end by burning men."
Try and balance the budget. Between SS / Medicare, and DoD, there's precious little left over to run the rest of the country.
SS is taxes collected over a lifetime of working. It's invested in treasury bonds which have returns that usually don't even outpace inflation.
Medicare isn't even allowed to negotiate drug prices.
DoD spends about what the rest of the world does, combined.
There is no balancing the budget. Start with reducing corruption and legalized bribery in the form of superpacs and "foundations" run by politicians, then we might get reasonable legislation to reduce overhead. Then we can tackle tax reform.