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California Man Sentenced To 20 Years In Deadly Kansas 'Swatting' (fox4kc.com)

slipped_bit writes: Tyler R. Barriss, 26, who pleaded guilty to multiple counts of "swatting" attempts, including the case that caused an innocent man to be killed by police in 2017, has been sentenced to 20 years in prison. The case in 2017 was all because of a dispute between two online players over a $1.50 bet in the "Call of Duty: WWII" video game. A total of 51 federal charges related to fake calls and threats were made against Barriss. "Barriss' prosecution in Wichita consolidated other federal cases that had initially been filed against him in California and the District of Columbia involving similar calls and threats he made," reports FOX 4 Kansas City. "Prosecutors had asked for a 25-year sentence, while the defense had sought a 20-year term."

"The intended target in Wichita, Shane Gaskill, 20, and the man who allegedly recruited Barriss, Casey Viner, 19, of North College Hill, Ohio, are charged as co-conspirators," the report adds. "Authorities say Viner provided Barriss with an address for Gaskill that Gaskill had previously given to Viner. Authorities also say that when Gaskill noticed Barriss was following him on Twitter, he gave Barriss that old address and taunted him to 'try something.'"

94 of 232 comments (clear)

  1. Whoa! Classy Lawyer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    "while the defense had sought a 20-year term."

    "Well son you might have been looking at a long stretch, but I managed to get you off with 20 years!"

    1. Re: Whoa! Classy Lawyer. by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Kid is lucky he isn't spending 60 years in jail as he should be. This is about paying for a crime. He shouldn't even have a chance of seeing the light of day of freedom for 60 years. He got off light and lucky. The justice system failed the public.

  2. Reverse Russian Roulette by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 3, Insightful

    Instead of pointing the gun at yourself, point it at someone else.

    Only a matter of time before it went off and killed someone.

    Twenty years seems light considering the number of times he swatted people.

  3. Ars Technica link... by Iwastheone · · Score: 4, Interesting
    https://arstechnica.com/tech-p...

    Ars also has an informative story with lots of links. This guy does deserve the sentence he got. If his jail sentence means others will learn not to do horrendous acts that endanger peoples lives then GOOD! No sympathy for this sociopath or psychopath. Don't parents teach kids that video games are not reality?

    1. Re:Ars Technica link... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      This guy does deserve the sentence he got.

      Perhaps.

      But the cop who pulled the trigger, and murdered the unarmed victim in cold blood perhaps should serve some time as well.

    2. Re:Ars Technica link... by yorgasor · · Score: 3, Insightful

      Absolutely. For some reason, it seems he's getting off without so much as a reprimand.

      --
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    3. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      If you don't read what exactly the kid did, you don't have a right to comment. He specifically tagetted the officers on the scene and stayed on the phone escalating what he was telling them that was going on inside a room the cops had no eyes on.

      The cop opened the door expecting a shooter about to execute a number of people and rigged up to a bomb that would go off after he completed his task. He should never have been put in that position. It was a killer's approach to get someone else to kill another person.

      If you think anyone tasked with protecting other people's safety would have paused on getting access to that building, you don't know how things like that go down. 99% of the time someone dies. Officer has to do his job so it's a question of if he or she dies or the potential bad guys. Most of the time it doesn't play out like what this story did and every officer who would have paused and got it right this time, nearly every other time they would die.

      And that is precisely your point isn't it? You would rather other people act to protect you and die than you do it yourself because cops are bad in your eyes....

    4. Re:Ars Technica link... by Cederic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      if you consider the LEOs had none of the foregone knowledge thaat they were not at a house where a murder had already been committed, the police reaction is much more understandable

      Nope, an unarmed man stood in bright lights on his own porch was murdered. I don't understand why the policeman even fucking shot him, let alone got away with that murder.

    5. Re: Ars Technica link... by Cederic · · Score: 5, Insightful

      If you don't read what exactly the kid did, you don't have a right to comment. [...] The cop opened the door expecting a shooter about to execute a number of people

      Given that the policeman didn't open the fucking door and did shoot an unarmed man I think it's pretty clear that you don't think you have a right to comment.

      You would rather other people act to protect you and die than you do it yourself because cops are bad in your eye

      How can I put this. I could have done a better job than that policeman, and I'd seriously fucking hope he's never called out to my house because he's demonstrably more likely to fucking kill me than anybody he's allegedly there to protect me from.

      I don't hate the police, I just expect the law to apply to them. Including murder charges when they murder unarmed people standing in the door of their own home.

    6. Re: Ars Technica link... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Interesting

      The cop opened the door expecting a shooter about to execute a number of people

      Nonsense. He was standing on his front porch, unarmed, with his hands visible, and the cop shot him from across the street.

      Go watch the videos on YouTube.

      Or read the description of the shooting.

    7. Re:Ars Technica link... by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 5, Insightful

      As a civilized society, we are somewhat reluctant to recognize the most uncivilized elements of humankind must be dealt with

      The first step is to make sure we don't give them a badge and a gun.

    8. Re:Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      There's two problems here. First the people who decide who gets a badge and gun also think it's OK for law enforcement officers to shoot people for any reason, not the least of which being that they were frightened. So no one in law enforcement is doing the right thing from top to bottom. Second problem is a lot of people in the USA, never having been in an interaction with the police, can't empathize with victims of police manslaughter and agree that it's perfectly OK for them to gun people down because they're afraid and never should have been hired as a law enforcement officer to begin with.

      You have to accept many of your fellow Americans are exactly what they were inartfully referred to as in the last presidential election cycle. They are deplorable excuses for human beings who are in fact, perfectly OK with things the way they are, but would be happier still if things got a lot worse, so long as none of it affects them personally.

    9. Re:Ars Technica link... by sheramil · · Score: 3, Funny

      This guy does deserve the sentence he got. If his jail sentence means others will learn not to do horrendous acts that endanger peoples lives then GOOD!

      They'd better keep a close eye on him when he's making his weekly phone call.

    10. Re:Ars Technica link... by fafalone · · Score: 5, Insightful

      Are you unaware of the details? The police, in large numbers, had the front of the house surrounded, from a tactical position behind their vehicles. An unarmed individual came out, was not identified, was not given a chance to comply with orders, and fired upon within seconds simply because an officer thought his hands passed too close to his waist. Could have just as easily been a hostage, especially since having hostages answer the door is the typical scenario.
      This was an egregiously terrible shoot. There is zero excuse here, and if you're defending executing someone in these circumstances, you're a disgusting person condoning having absolutely no reasonable restriction on allowing police to execute anyone they encounter. They didn't know if it was a hostage, they didn't know if he was armed, they didn't give him a chance to surrender, he didn't do anything at all-- his hands just passed near his waist he didn't reach for something, and they did it all from a distance behind cover.

      Barriss absolutely deserves the 20 years, but the officer who opened fire deserves life. And fuck whoever would defend one of the worst shoots ever, you're not defending a tough call, you're defending a wholly unjustified murder.

    11. Re:Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Police knock on the wrong doors and addresses all the time too, they have to accept there's a chance the call is fake or they are at the wrong house.

    12. Re:Ars Technica link... by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Or....and this is just a thought, how about putting the blame where it really lies which is SWAT teams that act more like hit squads than cops?

      We have reached a point in technology where there really is no excuse for killing a suspect that isn't actively shooting at people simply because of the ton of non lethal options every police dept has. They have tear gas, flashbangs, rubber bullets, bean bag rounds, tasers, all of which will put someone on the ground WITHOUT filling them full of holes, yet despite the SWAT units having all these options AND more body armor than a soldier in Iraq AND often hiding behind shields or cars when engaging...their default state is to ventilate. And do not forget this was supposedly a HOSTAGE situation...where was the hostage negotiator? Oh that is right SWAT teams today shoot first and fuck anything sensible like trying to talk a situation down peacefully.

      So while the douchebag deserved the jail time the innocent person's death needs to be blamed on those that pulled the trigger without even attempting anything less than lethal force...the cops.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    13. Re:Ars Technica link... by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 2

      If I recall correctly the situation was even more absurd.

      The police on the scene had everything under control. A further police car arrived, an officer left it and shot the guy instantly from a quite big distance (something like 30yards).

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    14. Re:Ars Technica link... by thegarbz · · Score: 5, Insightful

      the most uncivilized elements of humankind must be dealt with

      100% correct. Trigger happy police officers who shoot unarmed people must be dealt with.

      I am merely grateful

      Why are you grateful that the very people who protect you are so fucking trigger happy that they are likely to shoot you when you call for help, even if you're tiny white woman in her bathrobe? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/...

      Interactions with police are an example of a clash of an unpleasant element of society, but in the USA it is for all the wrong reasons.

    15. Re: Ars Technica link... by StikyPad · · Score: 2

      You would rather other people act to protect you and die

      Not the OP, but as a veteran who was willing to die to protect other people, fuck yes thatâ(TM)s what I want and expect from LE. Donâ(TM)t like it, get another job.

    16. Re:Ars Technica link... by sheetsda · · Score: 2

      If you can do better, have you signed up for police work yet?

      The current tense climate will only improve when people who can do better do, or come to understand why they and others can't.

    17. Re: Ars Technica link... by fortfive · · Score: 1

      Yes. Before video games, noone ever commited stupid and/or violent crime.

    18. Re:Ars Technica link... by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      Understanding better doesn't stop them shooting people in their own homes.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    19. Re: Ars Technica link... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      You are wrong.

      The police see the worst of mankind every day. Even the best hires, even those you pick yourself, cannot be prepared to experience the most rotten parts of our society day after day. Stories the news papers and television media think are too graphic to report on are seen first hand by these people.

      And you have the audacity to think they shoot at the slightest fear for no reason.

      How about this scenario. They pulled up to a house where a horrific murder just took place and two hostages are tied up in a closet. A deranged man comes out pulling on his pants to get a gun and start sending cops to their graves.

      That is not a slight fear. As far as the cops know, the guy on the porch already murdered someone; two witnesses from inside said so.

      The cops showed up as they have been trained to take down the murderer if necessary to save those hostages.

      Swatting is the crime. Swatting puts the police in a heightened state of fear for their own life and the lives of potential hostages. When in real danger, this heightened state is part of our evolutionary instinctive code; it is intended to save our life.

      I doubt whether you could do better if you were standing in his shoes. But I am sure you think you would have - and that makes you a good person. LOL.

    20. Re: Ars Technica link... by c6gunner · · Score: 1, Troll

      very people who protect you are so fucking trigger happy that they are likely to shoot you when you call for help

      The fact that you're ignorant enough to refer to a one-in-many-million occurrence as "likely" - and that multiple jackasses found your statement "insightful" - is a sad commentary on the Slashdot crowd. Apparently today's geeks don't actually understand this whole math thing.

    21. Re: Ars Technica link... by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      You don't recall it correctly. The officer was positioned at a distance, providing overwatch, well before the suspect exited the building.

    22. Re:Ars Technica link... by Koby77 · · Score: 1

      That is the problem with swatting: cops show up with adrenaline, and the innocent risk getting shot when they are actually no threat at all. In Kansas, there is a law which essentially transfers the blame from the police that they commit over to the instigator of the event, in this case Tyler Barriss. So that's why the officer got off with no punishment. The law says that the perpetrator is to blame for the events that happened.

    23. Re:Ars Technica link... by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      And third thing - because of crazy gun laws the cops consider everyone to be packing all the time (and I'm not sure I blame them). That cell phone - thought it was a gun, those pants, thought there was a gun hidden in there. Cops don't get to use that defense where guns are rare.

      --
      Nullius in verba
    24. Re: Ars Technica link... by zugmeister · · Score: 2

      The fact that you're ignorant enough to refer to a one-in-many-million occurrence as "likely"...

      Given that we hear about several deaths caused by SWAT invasions each year, either your anally-produced numbers are wildly incorrect or there are millions and millions of SWAT raids per year.
      The fact is an innocent person was killed. By the very people who were supposed to be protecting said person. How many accidental and completely preventable murders / killings / accidental executions * of innocent people would be an acceptable number, in your opinion?

      *It's hard to neutrally term the act of intentionally discharging a firearm into someone causing them to die, isn't it?

    25. Re: Ars Technica link... by HornWumpus · · Score: 4, Funny

      The police see the worst of mankind every day.

      And that's only roll call!

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
    26. Re: Ars Technica link... by zugmeister · · Score: 4, Insightful

      All other arguments aside, I'd like to present two facts and one outcome:
      Cedric has probably never killed anyone.
      Officer Justin Rapp has.
      Because of Rapp's actions, an innocent person Rapp was supposed to be protecting is now dead.
      Is it presumptuous of me to hold the opinion police shooting innocent people is a bad thing?

    27. Re:Ars Technica link... by zugmeister · · Score: 1

      The say-so of one anonymous caller may well warrant further investigation. Maybe even the deployment of a SWAT team in case it turns out to be true.
      OTOH doesn't it make sense to figure out what's actually going on before you start shooting people?
      Yeah stress / split second decisions and all that, but this is not the first (or 50th) time police have killed the people they were supposed to be protecting.

    28. Re:Ars Technica link... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I'm wondering if you meant to type what you typed there. You can always create a hypothetical where the police didn't know not something.

      Let's hope that if they ever ring your doorbell they know that you are not holding an atom bomb detonator disguised as a TV remote. Because by your own "logic" if they aren't sure they should shoot you just in case.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    29. Re: Ars Technica link... by c6gunner · · Score: 2

      Given that we hear about several deaths caused by SWAT invasions each year, either your anally-produced numbers are wildly incorrect or there are millions and millions of SWAT raids per year.

      This wasn't SWAT; it was regular cops. Obviously you just hear what you want to hear.

      The fact is an innocent person was killed. By the very people who were supposed to be protecting said person.

      Yes, it's tragic. About as tragic as when a patient dies on the operating table, or overdoses on perception medication. Shall we start locking up doctors who make an incorrect decision?

      How many accidental and completely preventable murders / killings / accidental executions * of innocent people would be an acceptable number, in your opinion?

      I'm perfectly fine with the current numbers. How many would be acceptable in your opinion?

      *It's hard to neutrally term the act of intentionally discharging a firearm into someone causing them to die, isn't it?

      Only if you're incompetent; the neutral term is "killing".

    30. Re:Ars Technica link... by Hognoxious · · Score: 2

      They have tear gas, flashbangs, rubber bullets, bean bag rounds, tasers, all of which will put someone on the ground WITHOUT filling them full of holes, yet despite the SWAT units having all these options AND more body armor than a soldier in Iraq AND often hiding behind shields or cars when engaging...their default state is to ventilate.

      That's totally unfair.

      You left out "while outnumbering the suspect by 20 to 1".

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    31. Re: Ars Technica link... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      They should have called in an airstrike just to be sure.

      Is there a bomber variant of the 737-MAX?

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    32. Re:Ars Technica link... by rmdingler · · Score: 1

      I'm wondering if you meant to type what you typed there. You can always create a hypothetical where the police didn't know not something.

      Let's hope that if they ever ring your doorbell they know that you are not holding an atom bomb detonator disguised as a TV remote. Because by your own "logic" if they aren't sure they should shoot you just in case.

      Sometimes I have Posting Tourette's, where I can't help but represent an alternative, underrepresented, opinion.

      --
      Happiness in intelligent people is the rarest thing I know.

      Ernest Hemingway

    33. Re:Ars Technica link... by sheetsda · · Score: 1

      I think there's been some misunderstanding. "They" in my statement is the person who finds in practice they actually cannot do better than the existing law enforcement system.

    34. Re:Ars Technica link... by hairyfeet · · Score: 2

      Thanks I forgot about that. So you had 20 to 1 PLUS beanbags, flashbangs, tear gas, tasers, rubber bullets AND the cops had body armor AND had shields or were behind cars....against a single guy in a pair of shorts.

      I just don't see how anyone sane can make excuses for these SWAT units anymore, what they are doing is nothing but straight up executions. With that many non lethal choices there is NO REASON why they can't put a single guy in shorts standing on a porch down without risking their lives of taking his, none. And again if this is supposed to be a hostage situation, where is the hostage negotiator? Oh that is right, you only have one of those when you want to end the situation peacefully instead of use civilians for target practice, my bad.

      --
      ACs don't waste your time replying, your posts are never seen by me.
    35. Re:Ars Technica link... by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

      I do that sometimes, but I usually include a bit of a hint that I'm being sarcastic.

      --
      Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."
    36. Re: Ars Technica link... by c6gunner · · Score: 1

      You seriously don't see the control angle of what is happening?

      I was considering responding to the rest of your comment, but this Alex Jones nuttery spoiled the whole thing. It takes a special kind of turd to see the botched handling of a hostage situation as an example of "control".

    37. Re:Ars Technica link... by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      I doubt I'll ever get the opportunity to test that. It's not my specialty.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
  4. Why the minimum I wonder by SuperKendall · · Score: 4, Interesting

    Considering he actually got someone killed, and his sentence helps send a message to other potential swatters... the minimum amount of fla, err, sentence doesn't seem quite enough.

    On the other side of this coin how is it possible after years of swatting action, that it's still really possible to swat anyone? It seems at this point like just a single source call should not be quite enough to trigger such an extreme response, or more recon should be done, or something.

    --
    "There is more worth loving than we have strength to love." - Brian Jay Stanley
    1. Re:Why the minimum I wonder by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1, Insightful

      Yeah, and the trigger-happy cop who killed the innocent man does not serve jail time.

    2. Re:Why the minimum I wonder by myth24601 · · Score: 2, Insightful

      Police want to have an excuse to use all that cool SWAT gear.

      --
      No matter where you go, there you are.
    3. Re:Why the minimum I wonder by yorgasor · · Score: 4, Insightful

      When all you have is a SWAT team, everything looks like a huge drug-lord compound.

      --
      Looking for a computer support specialist for your small business? Check out
    4. Re:Why the minimum I wonder by turbidostato · · Score: 1

      "On the other side of this coin how is it possible after years of swatting action, that it's still really possible to swat anyone?"

      Maybe because when something like this happens, it is the stupid kid the one that gets 20 years in prison instead of the cop that out of any real need pulled the trigger.

  5. And the one who pulled the trigger... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Interesting

    Serves zero time.

  6. Sentence fair, additional training appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

    The sentence is fair, for the SWAT call was the trigger for the events that eventually lead to the homeowners death. It also shows how additional training for police response would be a good thing to try to handle the losers trying to abuse the system to cause harm to others.

    1. Re: Sentence fair, additional training appropriate by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Swatting is a sport in the US. They train you from a very young age and it's going on all over the place. Collateral damage is not a concern in the United States

  7. OK, how about the actual shooter? by bmimatt · · Score: 4, Insightful

    How long did the guy who actually pulled the trigger and sent the deadly bullet get?

    1. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      DA did not press charges.

    2. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by ShanghaiBill · · Score: 4, Informative

      Go watch the youtube videos.

      It is nothing like what you describe.

      The cops show up. Position themselves across the street in body armor, behind multiple cars, with a dozen guns pointed at the house.

      Then an unarmed guy comes out, hands clearly empty, clearly confused, with a bright searchlight pointed at his face.

      Then a cop murders him in cold blood.

      Even if the call was real, there was absolutely no excuse to just kill the first guy they see. They had no idea if he was the "bad guy" or one of the "hostages".

    3. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by Iwastheone · · Score: 4, Informative

      GTA is a fucking made up fantasy video game that immature young adults can be/are influenced by. That's the truth whether you like it or not. Most kids know it's just a b.s. game, this swatter guy did not. An innocent man died because of this.

    4. Re: OK, how about the actual shooter? by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 5, Insightful

      The cop thought he was going for a gun because he was trained to see any hand motion as going for a gun, and was expecting the victim to go for a gun.

      If you go camping in the woods and are afraid of bears, every shadow looks like a bear and every noise sounds like a bear.

    5. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by fafalone · · Score: 4, Insightful

      If you're that fucking panicked from across the street behind your car door that you can't even wait to open fire until the dude at least reaches for something, you have absolutely zero business signing up for a job where you're fucking supposed to be putting your life on the line to protect innocent people, and should absolutely be held accountable for your completely over the top reaction. Police responding to a hostage situation don't get to just open fire on anyone they see for no reason, the hell is the point of even calling them if they're just going to shoot the hostages themselves? Sending a hostage to open the door is what is normally done.
      Even if the info they had was 100% correct this would have still been a straight up murder. Shooting from across the street behind cover the second someone walks out, without him doing absolutely anything to indicate he might be reaching for a weapon even, is completely unacceptable.

    6. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by pslytely+psycho · · Score: 4, Insightful

      Bullshit.

      There was no way the cop could know if it was a hostage at the door or the 'alleged criminal.'
      The likelihood of it being a hostage outweighs any perceived danger a SINGLE person answering the door to a dozen fully armored SWAT officers behind vehicles, ballistic shields and blinding spotlights faced.

      The cops were not in any real danger even if he had walked out with an AR-15 in each hand. We're not talking about a street cop walking up to the door but the civilian equivalent of a military task force that called him out with a bullhorn from across the street.

      This would of been a bad kill in a wartime situation, much less a civilian one.
      He failed rule number one:
      a) Positive identification (PID) is required prior to engagement. PID is a reasonable certainty that the proposed target is a legitimate military target. If no PID, contact your next higher commander for decision.

      Military ROE card:
      https://www.hrw.org/reports/2003/usa1203/11.htm

      --
      Donald Trump, on a crusade to make Nixon look respectable
    7. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by Just+A+Gigolo · · Score: 2

      Ok, so not only a homicidal killer but a lousy shot too!

    8. Re: OK, how about the actual shooter? by Kjella · · Score: 1

      And the office didn't open fire immediately after the man came out, but only after the man came out with his hands up, then turned, lowed his arms and with one hand made a motion to his waist. The cop thought that he was going for a gun that was shooter reported in the police call possessed.

      The cop thought he was going for a gun because he was trained to see any hand motion as going for a gun, and was expecting the victim to go for a gun. If you go camping in the woods and are afraid of bears, every shadow looks like a bear and every noise sounds like a bear.

      Except you're not going to any random place "in the woods", you're going to where a rabid bear allegedly just mauled a bunch of victims. That will strongly screw your perception that everything is the bear until proven otherwise. I mean the guy who calls into 911 with that story is a nutter, he could very well be coming out onto that porch to die in suicide-by-cop because that's why he called them over. Doesn't matter that he's surrounded by a ton of cops in full tactical gear, out in the open, blinded by a floodlight it still seemed plausible he'd grab a gun from his waistband and open fire.

      In retrospect we know all of this is wrong, he was probably just losing his pants and had a natural reaction to reach for them before he realized how poorly that could be interpreted. Heck, in any other case of mistaken identity where the police wasn't riled up to expect a psycho killer on a rampage he'd probably still be alive, because when you look at it without the context he was shot and killed for one tiny little deviation from total compliance. Somebody very maliciously planted that idea in the cop's head though.

      I mean Barriss admitted to making lots of swatting calls. In all of them except this one the cops were able to defuse the situation. In this situation, all but one cop kept their calm. If you keep buying enough lottery tickets sooner or later you'll find the perfect storm where one cop on a bad day in one situation under unfortunate circumstances makes one bad call and opens fire. And yes the reaction was premature and excessive, but we only ever hear about it when it goes horribly wrong. It's tough to be right 100% of the time.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    9. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by thegarbz · · Score: 1

      Imagine that you are one of the police officers responding to this unknown

      In many civilised countries the police officer wouldn't even be armed, sure as fuck not for some anonymous call.

    10. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by jeremyp · · Score: 1

      Wait. So not only did the incompetent cop fail to ascertain if the man was a hostage or the shooter and was a threat, he missed. His bullet could have gone anywhere. He needs to be fired at the very least.

      --
      All I want is a secure system where it's easy to do anything I want. Is that too much to ask ~~ Randall Munroe
    11. Re:OK, how about the actual shooter? by bugs2squash · · Score: 1

      was he trying to shoot the storm door - I don't think so.

      --
      Nullius in verba
    12. Re: OK, how about the actual shooter? by Stud+McPeckChest · · Score: 1

      If you go camping in the woods and are afraid of bears, every shadow looks like a bear and every noise sounds like a bear.

      I frequently go camping in the woods, I am terrified of snakes and I agree with your general statement. I will frequently carry a machete for the purpose of separating snakes from their lives. The thing is, I don't go wildly swinging every time I see a branch, twig or something in my peripheral vision move. I stop, quickly but safely move away from the thing that could be a snake and try and figure out what it is. If it is a snake, I then take a split second to assess how much of a threat it is to me and respond accordingly. More often than not, I simply avoid it. That's even knowing those bastards are a lot faster than I am, especially when I am tired.

      On one particularly horrific trip, I was on a very narrow ridge line and ran into a rattlesnake (and I didn't have my machete). I spent nearly an hour trying to come up with a plan before deciding that chances were pretty good it didn't want to tangle with me. I had to pass well within striking distance but I moved slowly, carefully and deliberately past it. While not deadly, it was a mix of my worst nightmare and a decent dose of venom in the backwoods. I prepared for the worst but hoped for the best. It didn't want to mess with me and we both went out separate ways, happy that the other was gone.

      I am not a professional woodsman, ranger or herpetologist. I do not have any training or experience in dealing with snakes outside of "kill them good" and suck at identifying them. Even with that, I know that if I get jumpy or panic then things are going to get really bad really quick and a good outcome becomes more pure fortune than anything else. I would be shocked to find that police are not trained to stay calm and keep the situation under control.

  8. Re:Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by yodleboy · · Score: 2

    Are you serious? If you yell 'fire' in a movie theater and some guy gets trampled by a careless firefighter, it's your damn fault.

  9. Remorse by The+Evil+Atheist · · Score: 3, Insightful

    “If I could take it back, I would, but there is nothing I can do,” Barriss told the court. “I am so sorry for that.”

    Uh, no, you cunt. You showed that you have no remorse throughout the whole ordeal.

    --
    Those who do not learn from commit history are doomed to regress it.
    1. Re: Remorse by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Indeed. That shitbag even snuck online in the jail and bragged about getting away with it, and that he'd do it again. 20 years is too good for him. I vote for a rail gun human cannonball launch into LEO. You get electrocution, vacuum death, and a nice meteor burning up at the end. Now that's Monday night rehabilitation!

  10. Re:Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by Powercntrl · · Score: 2

    I don't see why Shane Gaskill should be held responsible for somebody else's reckless actions.

    I thought the same thing after the story originally broke, and apparently it comes down to Mr. Gaskill not being a good little comrade and contacting the authorities the second he found out shit got real. Okay, that part I can kind of understand. Going to the cops doesn't always have the outcome you're hoping for.

    But then it gets weird: Mr. Gaskill actually contacted the guy who "hired" the swatter and told him to destroy any evidence of what had transpired. That's a really strange thing to do for someone whose prank could've very likely gotten you killed if the SWAT team hadn't gone to someone else's house.

    It appears the whole lot of 'em are a bunch of deranged fucks, and they all probably deserve varying degrees of time locked away from society.

    --

    ---
    DRM is like antifreeze, to the MPAA/RIAA it's sweet, to the consumers it's poison.
  11. Re: Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by Iwastheone · · Score: 1

    No my friend, it's the theaters fault for not making space to get to the exits.

    Bullshit! If you yell 'fire' when there is no fire, you created a panic situation that got scared people trampled by people trying to escape. You, as the person who screamed "Fire!" are the cause of any injuries/deaths that happened. You caused the situation. You should be held responsible for your actions.

  12. people still blaming cops by hdyoung · · Score: 1, Insightful

    People still blaming the cops on this one. Get a clue, please. This is the US. Guns outnumber people. It's just a cold, hard fact: US cops have to deal with a population that's swimming in guns, and it's their responsibility to somehow keep the "peace" So they assume that pretty much everyone they encounter is packing, which means they're going to escalate to gunfire very, very quickly in response to anything outside of "normal, quite street scene".

    Cops are like this because of the choices we've made as a civilization about guns. We engineered this situation. I'm not making value judgments - just pointing out that the trade-off is absolutely clear. We really, really, really, really want free ownership of guns. But freedom isn't free - the cost is a high murder rate, school shootings and swat events gone bad. And it's obvious to me that we're generally ok with this tradeoff as a group. When gun violence makes the news, 20% of the population wrings their hands, 20% of the population goes out and buys more guns, and 60% shrugs their shoulders. After 72 hours everyone forgets about it. The dead get buried, maybe someone goes to prison, insurance companies write a few checks, more guns go into circulation, and everyone hangs around till the next event. We could have gotten rid of the guns decades ago if we really wanted to.

    Oh, and here's a message to any NRA type who comes back with "guns don't cause increased violence" or "guns make schools safer" or any variant of that: shut the f*** up, grow a pair, and admit that your favorite toy comes with a blood price. No, your family is NOT safer cause you have a gun in the nightstand. Yes, school shootings are DEFINITELY linked to easy gun availability. Yes, our sky high murder rate is BECAUSE of guns. For Gods sake, just own up to the price we pay instead of hiding behind something that Charleton Heston spewed in support of a gun industry lobby. You'll get a ton more respect from me.

    The swatter orchestrated an incredibly dangerous situation and is the one to blame for this. For what's basically a murder (not first degree) 20 years seems reasonable. He's not in for life, but he'll be in a cage long enough that his testosterone levels will be way lower when he gets out. He probably won't be a threat by then.

    1. Re:people still blaming cops by spth · · Score: 1

      Your are wrong.

      Your "mile per mile"-claim obviously is false when comparing to very sparsely populated countries, such as Greenland (nearly the same rate of homicides per capita as the US, but very sparsely populated).

      And per capita it is well known to be false, as European countries have far lower rates. Including those with far lower gun ownership rates than the US, such as Germany (about one fifth the homicide rate of the US), and those with gun ownership rates higher than the US, such as Switzerland (about one tenth the homicide rate of the US).

      And there are small countries, such as the Vatican, which hasn't had a homicide since 1998 (though it has one of the highest per-capita crime rates in the world due to the small number of citizens vs. large number of visitors).

    2. Re:people still blaming cops by angel'o'sphere · · Score: 3, Informative

      Gun ownership in Switzerland is higher "on paper only". First of all they have strict rules for carrying a weapon. Secondly the guns/rifles are in possession of members of the militia. Weapon and ammunition is locked away in different lockers, ammunition amount is minimal. In case of mobilization they gather at assigned points with their base equipment they have at home, and specialists who bring transportation and orders bring the extra ammunition.

      Perhaps one from Switzerland can comment more precisely how it exactly works.

      --
      Cost free eBook I read (by iBook/Kobo/Amazon/ObookO/Gutenberg etc.): "The Green Odyssey" by Philip Jose Farmer.
    3. Re:people still blaming cops by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      The rules for carrying a weapon in Switzerland are simple enough (I'm a Swiss citizen living in Switzerland and a retired NCO): you can carry your weapon to competition or out-of-service (mandatory if you're in active service) shooting events unloaded, ammunition is provided on site. When you retire from active service you may keep your service weapon if you have a good service status and have attended enough mandatory out of service exercise, then your rifle is converted to semiauto-only. At home you can keep what you want, you need a buying permit for semiauto weapons of all categories, pump-action or lever action guns, and small arms, which is issued by the police with no problems if you have a clean criminal record and no "troubled history" so to speak (which is, you have been causing troubles but were not indicted). Bolt-action or single shot weapons require no permit. You can buy all the ammo you want but you have to sign for it and the cops may want to talk to you if you buy a lot, but if it was to save on money or you bought it in bulk with some friends, it's no problem. To carry a weapon you need a carry permit which again is issued by the police but you need a reason (like you're a security agent, even freelance) and you have to pass a theory exam and a practical exam. The latters must be repeated every 3 years. For a dedicated shooter it's quite easy and if you're been in any line position in the Swiss Army it's dead easy. I have been carrying now for 10 years. Swiss laws on firearms are not lax, they're quite restrictive but they're not complicated. You need very little paperwork, but you've got to prove yourself. They're quite good IMHO.

    4. Re:people still blaming cops by serviscope_minor · · Score: 2

      Sounds like their militia is pretty well regulated.

      --
      SJW n. One who posts facts.
    5. Re:people still blaming cops by thegarbz · · Score: 4, Insightful

      People still blaming the cops on this one. Get a clue, please.

      We have a clue. The police responded to a complete anonymous tip with deadly force and no attempt to even identify what the situation is let alone diffuse it. In any other country the police officer would be in jail. There are levels of escalation and the side with an overwhelming advantage in this one sided confrontation responded with unwarranted deadly force.

      Have you seen the Hateful Eight? "Anybody moves a little weird....little sudden--gonna get a bullet. Not a warning. Not a question; a bullet. Let me hear you say, 'I got it'." See even fucking Quentin Tarantino when writing a bloodbath knows how to communicate a warning.

      The swatter orchestrated an incredibly dangerous situation and is the one to blame for this

      You've boiled a complicated situation escalated by many people down to blaming a single person. You sir are an idiot.

    6. Re:people still blaming cops by MobyDisk · · Score: 1

      I can see how someone who has watched TV news their entire life, and never met anyone who owns a gun, might form the opinion that you have. The trade-off that you suppose does not exist: there is something else going on that I think most non-gun-owners just don't see. Let me try to help you bridge the gun culture gap that I see in America.

      I live in a suburb about 20 minutes outside of one of the most dangerous cities in America. When I moved here, I didn't realize how many people nearby me have guns. A bunch of my coworkers talk guns in the lunch room, and my team lead took me shooting. Apparently he likes modifying guns - adding sights, etc. He is a mechanical engineer and has a machine shop where wants to make his own barrels, which is apparently very difficult. He has some antique guns that his father gave him that still work well. They are geeks about guns the way I am a geek about video games. It's just their hobby, and the connection between guns and violence is actually strange to them. The lead analyst on my project is a gun safety instructor. He doesn't approve of me letting my kids use Nerf guns. He says no one should ever point a gun at themselves or another person, even a toy one. He would rather I buy them a BB gun and teach them to shoot than to give them a Nerf gun or a water gun.

      Let me contrast this with gun ownership in that nearby city. An acquaintance of mine borrowed a gun from a neighbor, so he could scare off a group of thugs. One of these thugs was dating a girl, and treating her really badly. But she stayed with him because she had no money and no place to live. They are all heavy drug users so she probably gets her fix from her boyfriend and would go on withdrawal if she left him and lost her supply. This acquaintance of my was attracted to the girl, and he knew the thugs were poor and stupid. So he brought her food one night that he swiped from an alcoholics anonymous meeting, and he made sure the trio of thugs could see the gun, without him brandishing it. He thought it was hilarious - they treated him like he was a king, and they don't go by his house any more and if he wants to see the girl they don't give him a hard time.

      Both of these places have a gun culture. But one of those places has more than 1 murder a day whereas the other one, well I guess I don't know but it isn't in the news every night that's for sure. This area where I live is is super safe. We don't lock our doors, our cars aren't broken into or stolen - to me it is what I would call "normal." If you make a map of America and you overlay "gun crime" and "gun ownership" you get very little correlation. Especially if you only count LEGAL gun ownership. That lack-of-correlation kinda follows throughout the world. When a cop pulls me over, he doesn't assume I have a gun, and he doesn't shoot me when I reach for my wallet in my pocket.

      Oh, and here's a message to any NRA type who comes back with "guns don't cause increased violence" or "guns make schools safer" or any variant of that: shut the f*** up, grow a pair, and admit that your favorite toy comes with a blood price.

      Your insults betray your lack of knowledge. The truth is the correlation isn't there. There are European countries where every male over 18 owns at least one gun and gets mandatory training at 18. Yet their gun crime rates match the lower rate throughout Europe. There are plenty of places in America that show this out too. There is a real question we should be asking here, but if you assume guns are evil then you can't see past your own bias to ask it.

      The real question we should be asking is what *DOES* correlate with gun crime, if not gun ownership?? Good news: we have known the answer for decades! The answer is that it correlates negative with quality of education, standard of living, and stable home lives. The trouble is that violence correlates positively with violence, and gun crimes correlate positively with other gun crimes. So if your friend or family

    7. Re:people still blaming cops by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      It's not a gun culture, more like a gun fetishism. And I say that as a former firearm owner.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
    8. Re:people still blaming cops by dunkelfalke · · Score: 1

      WTF are you talking about? I simply sold my rifle a decade ago when I got bored with shooting at cardboard targets. As a bonus I don't need to own a metal cabinet anymore.

      --
      "It's such a fine line between stupid and clever" -- David St. Hubbins, Spinal Tap
  13. Re:Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by fafalone · · Score: 1

    But if the fire fighter walks in, doesn't see any fire yet but gets so scared of the potential fire he splits your head with his axe to get you out of the way while trying to run back out the door, he'd also share in the responsibility no? That's the better equivalent to what happened here. No actual danger to the officer, and no action taken that would justify murder.

  14. Re: Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by fafalone · · Score: 1

    Dude you don't get to use lethal force against someone just because you're scared but not actually in danger. What is your obsession with allowing police to execute unarmed people who've done absolutely nothing threatening when the cop is far away and behind cover? That's unjustified murder, get a grip. You have to wait until there's an actual threat to kill someone.

  15. Charging the target by Krakadoom · · Score: 3, Interesting

    It just seems weird to me that the intended target was charged as a co-conspirator. Was it for giving a fake (old) address? Seems a really low bar to co-conspire in something, if you can get charged for misdirection against and evading someone actively trying to cause you harm.

    1. Re:Charging the target by porlryan · · Score: 1

      He gave out the wrong address knowing that something could happen to the person living there. Thats highly irresponsible. He didn't have to misdirect or evade, he could have given him nothing.

    2. Re:Charging the target by Kjella · · Score: 1

      It just seems weird to me that the intended target was charged as a co-conspirator. Was it for giving a fake (old) address? Seems a really low bar to co-conspire in something, if you can get charged for misdirection against and evading someone actively trying to cause you harm.

      Depends on what glasses you put on. From the victim's point of view he's effectively the mastermind who used Barriss as his stooge to send the cops as hit men. He goaded and taunted Barriss into doing it, that he pretended to bring the harm on himself only makes him more liable as the one pulling the strings.

      Let's try an analogy: You've been sleeping with the wife/daughter of dangerous/violent criminal, but they don't know who you are. You taunt them with intimate details about her body/bedroom and they threaten to kill you if they find you. So you hand them the name and address of someone you hate and is like here I am, you haven't got the guts you big pussy. That's a little bit past evading harm, it's framing people to come to harm.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    3. Re:Charging the target by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

      Or the address of the local jail.

      --
      John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  16. Not too much is going to happen to him in prison by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 1

    He is going into the Feds, not State.

    Even with no time served, he is eligible for about 32 months of Good Conduct Time, so, his projected release will be about 17.5 years out. Since he's under 20 years, he's eligible for Low Security. He is young, though, so he might still wind up designated to a Medium. Depends what the analysts in Texas think of him.

    Regardless, even if he goes to a Medium, it's not going to be one of the warrior academies. He would probably go somewhere like Allenwood, Butner, or maybe even Lexington.

    I'm not saying it's going to be fun, but it's not going to be Shawshank, either.

    Ooh! I just remembered. I think they revamped the Good Time calculation recently. He may serve even less than 17.5 years.

  17. The problem is not 'how much' training. by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 1

    The problem is 'what' training. When you repeatedly tell the officer to shoot if there is fast motion where you can't see both hands, that's what they're going to do. Telling them the same thing more often is not going to make them stop. You have to actually change the thing you're telling them to do.

  18. YOU imagine by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 1

    You're sitting at home watching TV and there's a commotion outside. A loud voice starts demanding that you exit your home. You go open the door to see what is happening.

    A bunch of people (cops?). You're surrounded. Bright lights, you're blinded. You're confused.

    Let's consider that for a second: YOU ARE CONFUSED.

    Next, you make some random movement with your hand (NOT going for a gun - you don't have a gun!) and the next sound you hear is harps, 'cause you're gone.

    Why didn't the COPS imagine this? Why isn't part of their training to understand that when you point guns at people and yell at them, some of them get confused? Being confused during a police encounter should not result in a death sentence.

    Everyone keeps saying that the swatter is the only one with culpability here. This police force made their SWAT team available for this activity. Don't they have at least as much culpability as someone who leaves a loaded gun where a child can find it and be injured or killed?

  19. Yes, but... by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 4, Insightful

    It is tough to be right 100% of the time. You're right.

    But when you are the guy who is wrong that one time, and you kill some innocent person, and it happens because of your personal judgement (nobody else was shooting, just YOU), you should be held accountable.

    I am a convicted felon. I could have died coming out of that last bank, would have been nobody's fault but my own. I get that.

    MOST police shootings are justified. I get that. Hell, I subscribe to Donut Operator's channel on YouTube.

    When they are not justified, though, we are not served by a justice culture that protects bad shooters.

  20. "normal, quite street scene" by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 1

    I would just point out that it WAS a "normal, quite street scene" until the cops showed and executed that guy.

  21. involuntary cornhole activity by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 1, Troll

    Not much of that in the Feds, especially at lower security levels.

    1. Re:involuntary cornhole activity by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Memoirs from people like Michael Santos agree.

      The key thing about lower security is that everybody there knows that if they get in a fight, they'll immediately be transferred to a place where it's harder to get contraband and movement is controlled so you can't just go into a vacant classroom and cry like you can in a minimum security camp. It really does keep things peaceable.

  22. A hard job by BankRobberMBA · · Score: 1

    Yes, they do a hard job, and mostly they do it well.

    When they do it badly though, as in this case, accountability is critical.

    Do you recognize that tense relations between police and community increases danger to the police officers? Then let's also recognize that this greatly increases that tension.

    1. Re:A hard job by zugmeister · · Score: 2

      You mean shooting the people you're supposed to be protecting engenders ill will? Who would have thought!

  23. Re:Charging Shane Gaskill Seems Wrong by HornWumpus · · Score: 1

    I'd step on you
    To see the Who!

    --
    John McAfee 'It was like that time I hired that Bangkok prostitute; to do my taxes, while I fucked my accountant'
  24. Re: Whoa! Classy Lawyer. by Millennium · · Score: 2

    Both of them. A hitman and his client are held in equal culpability for the homicide they commit together; so it should be with this.

  25. Re: Whoa! Classy Lawyer. by Hognoxious · · Score: 1

    Fair point. It doesn't need to be either/or.

    --
    Confucius say, "Find worm in apple - bad. Find half a worm - worse."