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Microsoft Launches Visual Studio 2019 For Windows and Mac (venturebeat.com)

Posted by msmash on from the developer-tools dept.

An anonymous reader writes: Microsoft today announced that Visual Studio 2019 for Windows and Mac has hit general availability — you can download it now from visualstudio.microsoft.com/downloads. Visual Studio 2019 includes AI-assisted code completion with Visual Studio IntelliCode. Separately, real-time collaboration tool Visual Studio Live Share has also hit general availability, and is now included with Visual Studio 2019.

48 of 93 comments (clear)

  1. Noooo! by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1, Insightful

    On windows I have to install a nightmare package of huge blobs of software to compile a C program, and then I find it doesn't even have getopt and the resulting executable is buried 6 levels down in an undocumented build directory.

    On a macintosh or a linux machine, I can type gcc my_program.c -o my_program and I'm done.

    --
    I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    1. Re:Noooo! by slack_justyb · · Score: 5, Insightful

      On a macintosh or a linux machine, I can type gcc my_program.c -o my_program and I'm done

      I myself being a person who favors Unix can definitely attest to how much I like how easy simple things can be done on these systems. That said, if compiling a single C file is what you're attempting to do, Visual Studio is absolutely not the correct tool for you. Microsoft's Visual Studio is a tool that is refined to develop Microsoft style development on Microsoft stacks. It works okay for other styles and stack, but this IDE is finely crafted, honed, and a juggernaut in sheer power for development in Microsoft land. If Microsoft isn't your bread and butter, yeah, you'll find better tools out there by the dozens. But if your shop is eyebrows deep in Mircosoft, there's few things that compare to this IDE.

      Get the right tool for what you need always. VS is tool that shines best for a select number of use cases that all in one way or another favor Microsoft's thinking for development and their stack of development/deployment. Don't fool yourself into thinking that there is any one single tool that rules them all and does everything the absolutely best way possible.

    2. Re:Noooo! by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      Your copy and paste skills are remarkable.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    3. Re:Noooo! by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      This is true. My SW development is mostly around coming up with better algorithms for data analysis and sticking them in a command line wrapper to test.

      Graphics is what pyplot does.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    4. Re:Noooo! by KlomDark · · Score: 1, Troll

      OMG! On Visual Studio I just have to hit CTRL-SHIFT-B (For Build) and it builds the code, and I don't even have to type anything obscure like

      gcc my_program.c -o my_program

      Is that better for you?

    5. Re:Noooo! by Kjella · · Score: 1

      That said, if compiling a single C file is what you're attempting to do, Visual Studio is absolutely not the correct tool for you.

      Yeah that example was just cringy, it's like showing how massive overkill Photoshop is to crop a photo. The problem is more often like being in a well stocked workshop, the tool you need is guaranteed here but it's actually hard to find the right one and each has a ton of options and configuration settings. Not to mention all the little time savers you find where Intellisense saves you 30 seconds you'd spend in a dumber tool figuring it out. It doesn't make bad coders good coders, but it makes good coders efficient coders. I'd like to say it keeps idiots from shooting themselves in the foot too, but they always find a way.

      --
      Live today, because you never know what tomorrow brings
    6. Re:Noooo! by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      If they could get a decent GCC toolchain working with Visual Studio Code it would be a pretty decent environment.

      I do find it odd that Microsoft never standardized their own version of getopt though. The don't seem to be big on standardization.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
    7. Re:Noooo! by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      I use ya_getopt that I found on github when trying to compile C on Windows in VS.

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    8. Re:Noooo! by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 2

      What if I already have a makefile that works fine on every other platform?

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    9. Re:Noooo! by Darinbob · · Score: 1

      Visual Studio was also a terrible tool for a giant project, and there was major improvements made by ditching it (except for a windows based simulator) and using a basic Makefile system with gcc instead.

      (this was not for a windows application, so using VS in the first place was a major foul up)

    10. Re:Noooo! by rastos1 · · Score: 3, Informative

      On a macintosh or a linux machine, I can type gcc my_program.c -o my_program and I'm done.

      I love to bash MS just like the next /. reader, but compare apples to apples:

      C:\w>echo int main(int argc,char *argv[]){return 0;} >foo.c

      C:\w>cl foo.c
      Microsoft (R) C/C++ Optimizing Compiler Version 19.16.27027.1 for x86
      Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

      foo.c
      Microsoft (R) Incremental Linker Version 14.16.27027.1
      Copyright (C) Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

      /out:foo.exe
      foo.obj
      C:\w>dir foo*
      ...
      04/03/2019 08:16 AM 46 foo.c
      04/03/2019 08:16 AM 78,336 foo.exe
      04/03/2019 08:16 AM 564 foo.obj

      Now compare how you display STL container or string in GDB and Visual Studio.

    11. Re:Noooo! by rastos1 · · Score: 1

      cmake is supported since VS2017.

    12. Re:Noooo! by pjt33 · · Score: 1

      I think that overall the time saved by Intellisense getting it right is less than the time wasted by it autocompleting the wrong thing. Lambdas are a particular problem: I type the variable name for the parameter and Intellisense wants to replace it with a variable that's already in scope.

    13. Re:Noooo! by strikethree · · Score: 1

      refined to develop Microsoft style development

      Ewwwww. Nasty.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    14. Re:Noooo! by TechyImmigrant · · Score: 1

      A useful response! Thank you.

      Can we go back to calling the c compile cc on every platform?

      --
      I should use this sig to advertise my book ISBN-13 : 978-1501515132.
    15. Re:Noooo! by Namarrgon · · Score: 1

      Try clang-cl - everything you like about clang, but ABI-compatible with MSVC, and directly supported by Visual Studio.

      --
      Why would anyone engrave "Elbereth"?
  2. No Visual Studio Express 2019 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Interesting

    No free version is available. Visual Studio Community is quite different from Visual Studio Express.

    1. Re:No Visual Studio Express 2019 by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 1

      Visual Studio Express was discontinued a decade ago. Community edition is unencumbered, and superior in literally every way. Leave the coding to actual coders.

    2. Re:No Visual Studio Express 2019 by labnet · · Score: 2

      Yes this.
      Microsoft push VS community edition, as Free, Use ME!!, but when you read the licensing conditions, it can only be used by micro businesses commercially.
      Look, here is their web site,

      Visual Studio Express
      Download Visual Studio Community for a fully-featured and extensible IDE; An updated alternative to Visual Studio Express....

      Liars...I wonder how many companies haven’t read the licensing terms and are not compliant.

      Scroll to the bottom of that page and you will find links to to Microsoft VS Express 2019 for desktop which is free to use commercially, but there will be no more releases after 2019.. but that doesn’t matter, because if you are just developing desktop utilities for Windows in C#, it was feature complete years ago.

      --
      46137
    3. Re:No Visual Studio Express 2019 by truedfx · · Score: 2

      "Unencumbered" is not wholly true. Visual Studio Express was free of charge for all. Visual Studio Community cannot legally be used by many companies.

  3. Re: MICROSOFT IS DEAD by baker_tony · · Score: 4, Funny

    Interestingly, VS becomes abandonware the same time Apple dies, which is the year of Linux on the desktop!

  4. Re: Nobody sane uses Microsoft's crap by baker_tony · · Score: 1

    If you're not writing machine code, you're a loser.
    Binary is taking it too far.

  5. No Microsoft IDE will ever be as usable as VB6 by ASCIIxTended · · Score: 5, Insightful

    I know there are a lot of haters here, most of whom I'm sure have never used it, but I believe that that the last really usable IDE from Microsoft that allowed for true rapid application development for desktop apps was Visual Basic 6.

    Sure it didn't force you to do certain things, like declare variables, but that doesn't mean you can't declare them properly. Show me another language that lets you create a multi-dimensional array of database objects, or do true debugging of both the user screens and code from one place. Microsoft made a big mistake abandoning it - an no vb.net is not a replacement. If you think it is then you haven't used either.

    --
    I do not belong to the church of the lowercase 'i'
    1. Re:No Microsoft IDE will ever be as usable as VB6 by labnet · · Score: 4, Interesting

      Gosh, the hate here for VB6 was a force, but I too loved the language.
      I wrote a commercial scientific instrument interface in VB6 with database driven dynamic controls, real time graphing and instrument control.
      I had to do all the engineering, Schematic, PCB, mechanical, embedded firmware, and PC app. No way I could have developed that as one man developer 20 years ago without VB6. (Maybe Delphi, but I didn’t have that dev stack)

      --
      46137
    2. Re:No Microsoft IDE will ever be as usable as VB6 by KingMotley · · Score: 5, Informative

      I've used both, and .Net (vb.net and C#) are very much a complete replacement and upgrade from VB6. For desktop applications, it is very similar. You have a form, you drop controls on it, you double click on the control and it hooks up the default event for that control, and drops you into where you can enter the code to run when that event fires.

      You also get control (if you want it) to how to spawn the forms at start up, and yes, you can still get multidimensional array of database objects in ADODB, or datasets if you really want.

    3. Re:No Microsoft IDE will ever be as usable as VB6 by KlomDark · · Score: 2

      http://lmgtfy.com/?s=b&q=vb6+s...

    4. Re:No Microsoft IDE will ever be as usable as VB6 by KingMotley · · Score: 1

      I just Visual Studio 2019 Preview 4.2, took 27 seconds to load the IDE, and one of my projects, sync the source with the repository, load the extensions (Resharper, Live Share, Dev Analytics, Cloud Explorer, Azure Data Lake and Steam Analytics, etc), and verify all my NuGet packages were up to date, and then become idle. That with a game running in the background.

      Granted, my home PC is pretty beefy, but work performs similarly on a lesser system (but still on a SSD).

    5. Re:No Microsoft IDE will ever be as usable as VB6 by Darkling-MHCN · · Score: 1

      This is absolutely hilarious and total utter BS.... Visual Basic 6 better than Visual Studio and .NET !!?

      And what could you do with VB6? windows apps? Console Apps? Answer: In summary almost nothing,

      OK yes in it's day it was pretty good. At that time, I actually much preferred Delphi, which funnily enough was created by Anders Hejlsberg, the same man that Microsoft recruited to bring us .NET.

      MS .NET is cross platform and you can use it for pretty much any kind of application you can think of.

      There's nothing you could do in VB6 that you can't do better and faster in Visual Studio and .NET. Including multi-dimensional arrays of "database objects" and "true debugging"...

    6. Re:No Microsoft IDE will ever be as usable as VB6 by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      Only .NET Core is officially cross platform, and doesn't have GUI development features outside Windows. Even Mono's Winforms implementation on Linux is basically permanently deprecated and unsupported, unfortunately.

      --
      == Jez ==
      Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
    7. Re:No Microsoft IDE will ever be as usable as VB6 by Opportunist · · Score: 1

      A multidimensional array of database objects? Any C dialect lets you do that. Granted, in C++ it gets a bit easier with the objects bringing along their own manipulation and cleanup code, but aside of that... hell, you can do it in Javascript, in Python...

      Come to think of it, is there a language you canNOT do it in?

      --
      We used to have a Bill of Rights. Now, with the rights gone, all we have left is the bill.
    8. Re:No Microsoft IDE will ever be as usable as VB6 by strikethree · · Score: 1

      Gosh, the hate here for VB6 was a force, but I too loved the language.

      VB6 was fun, but it was non-deterministic. In certain situations, the output or behavior would not be repeatable. For many tasks, it was a suitable language/environment, but its lack of determinism made it an object of derision.

      It is possible to love flawed things. It is possible despise those flaws. It is possible to experience both at the same time.

      --
      "Someone needs to talk to the tree of liberty about its ghoulish drinking problem." by ohnocitizen
    9. Re:No Microsoft IDE will ever be as usable as VB6 by Darkling-MHCN · · Score: 1

      .NET has been cross platform from release 1.0. Microsoft, HP and Intel formally submitted an open specification for the .NET CLI (which is the specification for implementing a .NET runtime for any platform) to ECMA back in 2001. To say there was no cross platform support before .NET core is misleading, the actual wording you've used "officially cross platform" as far as I'm concerned it was officially cross platform when the ECMA-335 standard was first ratified in 2003.

      In terms of actual cross platform support, before .NET Core previous versions of the framework have been available for Windows Mobile, Windows Phone, Mono on Linux and Mac, it's also used in Unity, which based on .NET offered game development for iPhone, Android, Mac, Windows and Linux, it was also used in Xamarin, which too offers app development for iPhone, Android and Windows Phone.

      Just because there isn't a complete implementation for every platform does not mean it is not cross platform.

      I think you misunderstand what .NET Core is. It's really a reboot of the platform, leaner and more fine tuned for today's requirements, forgoing backwards compatibility with previous versions of the framework.

      There is some effort to consolidate different implementations of the CLI using .NET standard assemblies, but that again is really separate to .NET core as you're supposed to be able to use .NET standard across multiple runtimes which includes but is not exclusive to .NET Core.

    10. Re:No Microsoft IDE will ever be as usable as VB6 by jez9999 · · Score: 1

      I was really focussing on the GUI side of things. Many of us were really disappointed when it was revealed that the GUI functionality in the latest .NET Core was basically just a wrapper for existing Windows GUI functionality and not to be supported on Linux and Mac. It would be great if they could port XAML based interfaces for example to Linux and Mac and then their GUI support really would be cross platform like the rest of Core.

      --
      == Jez ==
      Do you miss Firefox? Try Pale Moon.
  6. Glad I don't have to deal with this MS crapware... by Anonymous Coward · · Score: 2, Insightful

    So happy that I don't have to deal with this Microsoft garbage anymore. Now a days, I use Linux with Qt and can deploy my apps literally everywhere. Tablets, phones, Windows, Mac, Linux, it doesn't matter, my same code works everywhere.

  7. Typical Garbage on the Mac Anyway by lazarus · · Score: 2

    Every time they come out with a new version I try it for mobile app development and every time I end up trashing it. This version:

    - Crashed immediately on first launch.
    - Once relaunched I created a new Android project in F#. Changed nothing except selected my device to run it on. Compile produced 12 errors.
    - Closed the project and created a brand new one with a different name but going through exactly the same steps. Compile produce 4 completely different errors.

    I have Android studio and Xcode installed and working just fine. There is no way that I'm investing my time in a tool that breaks out of the box.

    --
    I am not interested in articles about life extension advancements.
  8. JetBrains much better by guruevi · · Score: 2

    I've tried over the years to use Microsoft IDE because people keep raving about it but they've never used JetBrains' suite of products or even simply Eclipse. Especially if you're more than just .NET (most enterprises work in mixtures of .NET, Java, HTML and PHP). They've also worked on Mac and Windows and Linux for a really long time.

    Also, their support sucks whereas JetBrains has a direct-to-engineer support. If you're going to pay for something, at least look around.

    --
    Custom electronics and digital signage for your business: www.evcircuits.com
    1. Re:JetBrains much better by AmiMoJo · · Score: 1

      VS excels in a couple of areas.

      Refactoring tools and code browsing is second to none. It really helps to keep code organized and encourage basic stuff like decent variable naming. Refactoring understands the language you are using and will even fix up comments for you.

      It's got pretty decent change tracking and git integration too. For C#/.NET stuff they have a good package manager too.

      The main down-side is that it's support for non-standard configurations is a bit weak. Some IDEs work well with your custom makefile based build system but VS is really designed around the configurations that Microsoft officially supports. For most people that's fine.

      --
      const int one = 65536; (Silvermoon, Texture.cs)
      SJW, n: "Someone I don't like, and by the way I'm a fuckwit" - AC
  9. Re: Nobody sane uses Microsoft's crap by baker_tony · · Score: 1

    EMACS!! La-de-fucken-da rich boy!
    EMACS is dying, faster than Apple and M$.
    If you're not using Nano, you don't know how to code.

  10. to do what? by 4wdloop · · Score: 1

    So, Can one use Mac to develop Windows Apps (and which ones? Wpf/C# or?) ...or Mac apps or what to do with it? What are the target architectures?

    --
    4wdloop
  11. Re:Nobody sane uses Microsoft's crap by LesFerg · · Score: 1

    But can it compile JavaScript? heh.

    --
    If I had a DeLorean... I would probably only drive it from time to time.
  12. Re:Delphi &/or FreePascal via Lazarus IDE = be by Darinbob · · Score: 1

    Delphi &/or FreePascal via Lazarus IDE = better

    Have to agree here, though my experience was in 95. I had to write up a simple demo of a DLL using both Visual Basic as well as Delphi. Visual Basic was painful to use and non-intuitive, whereas Delphi was straight forward and easy. A major difference was the sheer amount mouse movement that VB required to get simple stuff done. As a UI design, VB felt amateurish.

    I assume it has improved since then, but I could be wrong.

  13. Re: Lack of new features in Visual Studio 2019 by cyber-vandal · · Score: 2

    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-...

    Or you could look at what's actually changed

  14. Re: Nobody sane uses Microsoft's crap by ASDFnz · · Score: 1

    EMACS? Nano?

    Real programmers use VI.

  15. Re: Nobody sane uses Microsoft's crap by baker_tony · · Score: 1

    VI!!!!! Luxury, I code in Nano for 25 hours a day, in the snow, barefoot, eating coal if I get hungry and all while my computer is unplugged.
    If I'm lucky, I'll be beaten by my father at the same time which warms me up a bit.

  16. No blockchain assisted code completion? by thesjaakspoiler · · Score: 1

    Is Microsoft still stuck in 2018?

    1. Re:No blockchain assisted code completion? by Darkling-MHCN · · Score: 1

      Even google has no idea what you're talking about

  17. Downloaded and installed. by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

    It's a little large 17 gig. It's a little slow to start about 15 seconds coming off my SSD. Did not pick up settings from VS 2017. But it does run well. Compiles quickly and in general behaves well.

     

  18. Not sure if serious or trolling. by Crashmarik · · Score: 1

    NT