Amazon Workers Are Listening To What You Tell Alexa (bloomberg.com)

Amazon reportedly employs thousands of people around the world to help improve its Alexa digital assistant. "The team listens to voice recordings captured in Echo owners' homes and offices," reports Bloomberg. "The recordings are transcribed, annotated and then fed back into the software as part of an effort to eliminate gaps in Alexa's understanding of human speech and help it better respond to commands." From the report: The team comprises a mix of contractors and full-time Amazon employees who work in outposts from Boston to Costa Rica, India and Romania, according to the people, who signed nondisclosure agreements barring them from speaking publicly about the program. They work nine hours a day, with each reviewer parsing as many as 1,000 audio clips per shift, according to two workers based at Amazon's Bucharest office, which takes up the top three floors of the Globalworth building in the Romanian capital's up-and-coming Pipera district. The modern facility stands out amid the crumbling infrastructure and bears no exterior sign advertising Amazon's presence. The work is mostly mundane. One worker in Boston said he mined accumulated voice data for specific utterances such as "Taylor Swift" and annotated them to indicate the searcher meant the musical artist. Occasionally the listeners pick up things Echo owners likely would rather stay private: a woman singing badly off key in the shower, say, or a child screaming for help. The teams use internal chat rooms to share files when they need help parsing a muddled word -- or come across an amusing recording.

Sometimes they hear recordings they find upsetting, or possibly criminal. Two of the workers said they picked up what they believe was a sexual assault. When something like that happens, they may share the experience in the internal chat room as a way of relieving stress. Amazon says it has procedures in place for workers to follow when they hear something distressing, but two Romania-based employees said that, after requesting guidance for such cases, they were told it wasn't Amazon's job to interfere. [...] Amazon, in its marketing and privacy policy materials, doesn't explicitly say humans are listening to recordings of some conversations picked up by Alexa. "We use your requests to Alexa to train our speech recognition and natural language understanding systems," the company says in a list of frequently asked questions. In Alexa's privacy settings, the company gives users the option of disabling the use of their voice recordings for the development of new features. A screenshot reviewed by Bloomberg shows that the recordings sent to the Alexa auditors don't provide a user's full name and address but are associated with an account number, as well as the user's first name and the device's serial number. An Amazon spokesperson said in a statement to Bloomberg: "We take the security and privacy of our customers' personal information seriously. We only annotate an extremely small sample of Alexa voice recordings in order [to] improve the customer experience. For example, this information helps us train our speech recognition and natural language understanding systems, so Alexa can better understand your requests, and ensure the service works well for everyone."

They added: "We have strict technical and operational safeguards, and have a zero tolerance policy for the abuse of our system. Employees do not have direct access to information that can identify the person or account as part of this workflow. All information is treated with high confidentiality and we use multi-factor authentication to restrict access, service encryption and audits of our control environment to protect it."

Further reading: How To Stop Amazon From Listening To Your Recordings

Comments

Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[SuperKendall]

The article seems to present this as some new info, I assumed this was happening all the time, otherwise how else can Alexa improve?

it's incidentally also why I don't have anything like Alexa or other voice assistants in my house, but if you are sending audio to Amazon hey guess what, something or someone is going to listen to that audio. DURRRR.

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[postbigbang]

No, no one should be suprised-- but they will be. Alexa isn't the only one, just the one currently exposed. How does one improve Alexa? Certainly training.

Or, recycling it.

Humanity has long desired servants. The servants are controlled by their masters, who are not you.

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[Anonymous Coward]

Google does the same. My gf was one of these "transcribers" for awhile.

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[gweihir]

This is a standard tactic: First lie directly, then less directly, then admit a bit, then admit the whole. The average person is stupid and will only see the small steps, not the large overall one and will accept the whole thing. Works time and again.

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[Anonymous Coward]

...until she heard your conversation with your other girlfriend...

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[Anonymous Coward]

People assume they are talking to an artificial intelligence, not to a random low wage employee. They also assume they pay for a working service, not to be part of some ongoing experiment as sample.

And the fact that amazon employees might be audio witness of an ongoing crime is a problem that will, any day, pose a serious issue. Because no marketting laws allows, in most civilized countries, to witness an ongoing crime and not say anything about it, not do anything to alert authorities. The fact that the audio is not studied live changes nothing since ongoing crime can be something that it repeated until stopped, for instance child molestation.

But then the daily monitoring is really orwellish.

And that is surely not what we thought was supposed to happen.

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[Askmum]

I never thought about it because I conciensly will not buy such a product, but the way this article is written makes me think of the SciFi novels I read as a teenager. Those novels where there is a mostly hidden but all-encompassing upper layer of monitoring that we at that time thought would only happen in totalitarian states like the GDR or Russia.
Guess what. It's here. And now. Maybe not yet in the way as in the former east-block, but give it some time.

Sure, it can have good side-effects. Someone hearing a child cry for help, why wouldn't you alert 911 to get help. But boy is this a worrying development.

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[dwillden]

Yep, Google admitted they did this outright years ago. That was a big part of the purpose for their Google Voice phone and voicemail systems. To get voice and speech recordings to train their voice recognition systems.

But what people still don't seem to get is that these devices are not recording 24/7. They monitor for the trigger names to activate, "Hey Google", "OK Google", "Hey Alexa", "Hey Siri", "Hey Cortana" "Hey Galaxy" etc...

So when the devices are activated then they record. Now they can be triggered by similar sounding phrases. When OK Google first became available on Radio Host on my local talk station had a phrase he used that occasionally triggered my phone. My Amazon Dot gets triggered occasionally when someone calls my son by his name Alex. But otherwise they only listen for the trigger phrases and only record once triggered.

This is mostly not news. I do feel for the employees who hear distressing captures and can't do anything about them. I doubt they are even listening in real time and hopefully all the captures they process are anonymized making it even more difficult to be able to do anything about what they hear. I would hope that these companies all strip the time, location and network details of the captures before sending them to their employees.

The purpose of the capture is to train the service to better understand the words and the variables of human speech idiosyncrasies, not actually monitor what is being said. Teach it to handle variations in accents and dialects. I grew up in a town called Layton. Most residents swallow the T in a glottal stop. People who didn't grow up there do pronounce the T. These systems need to be able to tell those differences as well as more extreme accent and dialectic differences in pronunciation.

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[Anonymous Coward]

The only audio clips captured are after somebody says the wakeword "Alexa". If there was something odd captured, like a sex act or even a sexual assault, this was a very unusual exception, not the rule. Also, I'm not sure of how a listener of a brief audio clip (these are limited to a few 10s of seconds at most) could have enough context, in the vast majority of situations, to classify an overheard sex act as legal or illegal. There is no "daily monitoring" of anybody, just random sampling and transcription for speech recognition improvement. Don't drink the kool aid from this article.

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[Anonymous Coward]

The key part here is "the way the article is written". It's nonsense. There is nobody listening in on Alexa. Rather, human annotators are given a sample small number of audio clips, which are captured when somebody says "alexa" (the wakeword) and they transcribe the text therein. That's it. Every service that uses speech recognition, including your Android phone with Google Assistant or your iOS phone with Siri does *the exact same thing*.

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[Anonymous Coward]

This article is a hit job. Every single one of us except for the tin foil hat crew already has a Siri device or Google Assistant device we walk around with in our pockets ALL DAY. All of these devices can occasionally wake up mistakenly and record small audio clips. All of them have speech recognition services powering them, which means by definition that there are transcribers sampling from these audio clips to give labeled ground truth data to the ASR systems. This is how ASR works. If you don't know that, that's fine, but that's not newsworthy. If you are engaging in illegal activity or a sex act, I suggest you keep smart speakers unplugged and your smartphone off or in another room.

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[e3m4n]

Remember the supposed ‘accident’ where google home called 911 during a domestic dispute? I found that unbelievable since 1) they dont interface with the PSTN, 2) they do not have a telephone number and therefore not registered with the 911 location database. That only leaves one option. Someone was listening and called the cops themselves.

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[BringsApples]

But what people still don't seem to get is that these devices are not recording 24/7. They monitor for the trigger names to activate...

You said "record", but I don't know why. It's silly to think that a voice-operated device is only listening when you say a certain phrase. Obviously it's listening all the time, otherwise how would it hear the phrase?

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[Anonymous Coward]

Even these devices are snowflakes, what with getting "triggered" all the time...

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[Anonymous Coward]

And yet.. you probably have things like a smart TV, or a cell phone, or anyone of other myriad systems with built in mics,

Plus there's cars with onstar, etc.

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[Straumli Perversion]

The only audio clips captured are after somebody says the wakeword "Alexa".

You hope. It has to listen the entire time, or else it can't hear the word "Alexa". How sure are you that it's not recording the entire time? Or just randomly for this transcribing process regardless of whether the word "Alexa" has been said or not?

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[Anonymous Coward]

But surely such brilliant and amazing people like slashdot readers see through all of this and do everything in their power to prevent it

whats that? you hide your tail between the legs and sell off to the highest bidder? Oh ok, glad that we cleared that detail up. :D

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[gweihir]

/. readers are generally ok. ACs, on the other hand...

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[swillden]

But what people still don't seem to get is that these devices are not recording 24/7. They monitor for the trigger names to activate...

You said "record", but I don't know why. It's silly to think that a voice-operated device is only listening when you say a certain phrase. Obviously it's listening all the time, otherwise how would it hear the phrase?

The phrase recognition is done locally, nothing is saved on-device or sent to the cloud. I don't know about the home devices, but phones have dedicated circuitry that does nothing but hotword recognition. This is done to keep power usage down Having to keep a core of the main CPU awake would consume far too much power, draining the battery. Having to transmit the data via the cellular radio would destroy battery life, and burn expensive data.

Does having a powered-up microphone and very simple pattern recognition system processing the audio stream count as "listening"? Does having a router scanning Ethernet signals looking for packet boundaries and IP addresses count as "reading"? Seems like pretty much the same thing to me.

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[BringsApples]

We can call it "listening" or "phrase recognition". They're the same. Now, maybe when phrase #1 is detected, action #1 is preformed. But then if phrase #2 is detected, then action #2 is preformed. However, that action #1 talks to you, and you're made aware of that, doesn't mean that action #2 needs to let you in on it all.

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[swillden]

We can call it "listening" or "phrase recognition". They're the same. Now, maybe when phrase #1 is detected, action #1 is preformed. But then if phrase #2 is detected, then action #2 is preformed. However, that action #1 talks to you, and you're made aware of that, doesn't mean that action #2 needs to let you in on it all.

Do you have any evidence -- at all -- that these devices scan for something other than the configured hotword?

Note that since the companies that make them are publicly-traded, there's a legally-enforceable expectation that when those companies say that the devices don't search for any other phrases, they're telling the truth. If anyone could prove that they weren't it would get the companies in significant trouble with the FTC and SEC. This is especially true for Google, which is operating under the terms of an FTC consent decree put into effect after the Google Buzz incident.

Oh, and if the devices were doing anything else, it wouldn't be at all difficult for skilled engineers to tell by disassembling the devices and observing what parts to what, when. Or by reversing the firmware. In addition, we're talking about Silicon Valley companies, where the engineering staff is notoriously willing to blow the whistle on anything they perceive as bad behavior.

Given all of that, the company leaders would have to be complete idiots to allow anything like what you postulate to be done.

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[BringsApples]

Do you have any evidence -- at all -- that these devices scan for something other than the configured hotword?

Note that since the companies that make them are publicly-traded, there's a legally-enforceable expectation that when those companies say that the devices don't search for any other phrases, they're telling the truth. If anyone could prove that they weren't it would get the companies in significant trouble with the FTC and SEC. This is especially true for Google, which is operating under the terms of an FTC consent decree put into effect after the Google Buzz incident.

Have you not seen this?
In today's world, just because The Big Company doesn't tell you about a thing that their product does, doesn't mean that they told you that it doesn't do that. And that's the logic that we're dealing with. The mentality that you perceive from Silicon Valley seems outdated.

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[Anonymous Coward]

in other words, a "modified limited hangout"...

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[swillden]

Do you have any evidence -- at all -- that these devices scan for something other than the configured hotword?

Note that since the companies that make them are publicly-traded, there's a legally-enforceable expectation that when those companies say that the devices don't search for any other phrases, they're telling the truth. If anyone could prove that they weren't it would get the companies in significant trouble with the FTC and SEC. This is especially true for Google, which is operating under the terms of an FTC consent decree put into effect after the Google Buzz incident.

Have you not seen this? In today's world, just because The Big Company doesn't tell you about a thing that their product does, doesn't mean that they told you that it doesn't do that. And that's the logic that we're dealing with. The mentality that you perceive from Silicon Valley seems outdated.

Meh. That was clearly a simple mistake. They added the mic because they intended to use it later, then failed to include it in the spec sheet. There is also no evidence whatsoever that it was ever used at all until after it was actually announced.

This is actually an important point, though: Most of the tinfoil-hat crowd who is certain that companies are constantly maliciously lying have to attribute impossibly-high levels of competence and planning to them. In the real world, companies are made up of fallible people, and this not only means that mistakes like the one you linked happen... it also means that the sort of conspiracies of silence required to carry out the theorized malicious acts are just impossible.

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[BringsApples]

Meh. That was clearly a simple mistake. They added the mic because they intended to use it later, then failed to include it in the spec sheet.

You sound sure of that. Any reason why? Maybe you could show me another example of this same sort of thing happening.

I have another example to share why it is that I think this way. Maybe their activity doesn't alarm you, and that's fine.

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[swillden]

Meh. That was clearly a simple mistake. They added the mic because they intended to use it later, then failed to include it in the spec sheet.

You sound sure of that. Any reason why?

Knowledge of the people and culture.

Maybe you could show me another example of this same sort of thing happening.

I have another example to share why it is that I think this way. Maybe their activity doesn't alarm you, and that's fine.

I don't see any connection between these cases. One is the presence of a piece of hardware intended for future use, but not actually used, and accidentally omitted from the spec sheet. The other is the decision by one engineer to store more data than was necessary. Both are attributable to human error, but they're entirely different in nature and context. The mic in Nest Protect was part of the product roadmap. The Wifi packet capture was not (other than SSID).

FWIW, I think the court was wrong in that Wifi capture case. If data is broadcasted in cleartext, anyone who wants to record it is within their rights to do so, and any attempt to legally restrict such recording is foolish and goes against centuries of jurisprudence based on the reasonable expectation of privacy (I say you have none if you're broadcasting data). It provides a false sense of security, which is bad for real security. I also think the Google engineer was wrong to collect any data beyond the SSID, and I'm quite certain that wouldn't have happened if the privacy review processes in place in Google now had been applied back then, but that's separate from the legal issue of whether recording cleartext RF signals constitutes wiretapping or other invasion of privacy.

Re:Wait, you DIDN'T think that was happening?

[BringsApples]

We disagree on this, my friend, but I respect your views.

However, about the war-driving by google, you're correct, people shouldn't be broadcasting their SSID.

Look on the bright side

[Tablizer]

Well, at least such could be helpful to the next person who asks for "Natalie Portman to moan romantically about a Beowulf cluster of hot grits." It does get better each time ... my friend asks for it.

Re: Look on the bright side

[Anonymous Coward]

https://www.google.com/search?q=Natalie+Portman+to+moan+romantically+about+a+Beowulf+cluster+of+hot+grits

Re: Look on the bright side

[Tablizer]

It redirected me to Bing.

Re:Look on the bright side

[gweihir]

Nice!

Re: Look on the bright side

[Anonymous Coward]

I think you mean "bong", sir.

Cue in the Fake News

[Anonymous Coward]

New York Times and Washington Post to come to the rescue in 3, 2, 1...

Ha! Joke is on them

[Anonymous Coward]

because I am moot.

Alexa, show me..

[Anonymous Coward]

Alexa, show me all the article's about Amazon's spying on me.
"Sorry, there is not enough memory to complete this task."

Re:Alexa, show me..

[Anonymous Coward]

This is so funny! Do you have any more hilarious jokes in the same style?

Re: Alexa, show me..

[Anonymous Coward]

That is disturbing. I need to meditate. Seriously, Alexa, where can I get a stiff cocktail?

Re: Alexa, show me..

[Anonymous Coward]

I'd have a stiff cock ... for you!

Re:Alexa, show me..

[Anonymous Coward]

Alexa, show me all the article's about Amazon's spying on me.

Alexa, how do I spell the plural of "article"?

Re:Alexa, show me..

[Anonymous Coward]

Alexa, show me all the articles about proper use of punctuation.

Re:Ha! Joke is on them

[Anonymous Coward]

You're Moot? So you keep telling Alexa "I want to be the little girl"?

Re:Ha! Joke is on them

[Anonymous Coward]

Freudian slip. Busted.

why do people use these things?

[schklerg]

Seriously, I have no objections to technology, but the people behind the technology are not even remotely trustworthy. Until we hit some semi-utopian Star Trek civilization, I cannot trust the machines due to the untrustworthy people behind the machines.

Re:why do people use these things?

[dunkelfalke]

Because it is comfortable.

Every time I am in a hotel I really miss the option to say "Alexa, switch the lights off", or "Alexa, what time is it?" instead of doing everything myself.

Re:why do people use these things?

[Anonymous Coward]

You could just look at the time on your clock/watch (or smartphone) instead of planting an Orwellian device in your apartment. Or build your own home automation system, instead of relying on some mega corp to do it for you, taking all your data in return.

Re:why do people use these things?

[dunkelfalke]

And wherefore would I do that? Amazon Echo is less hassle and since I don't talk at home except issuing voice commands to Alexa, Amazon gets nothing from me.

Re:why do people use these things?

[drewlake2000]

They are definitely not taking my data. I still have it. Copying it? well yes obviously. But so what?

Re:why do people use these things?

[Anonymous Coward]

You can trust them to maximize profits.

Re:why do people use these things?

[King_TJ]

I bought a couple of Alexas but I set up one of them in my office, where it's generally pretty quiet and where I'm only there a few days per week anyway. That unit is not going to hear anything but silence 99% of the time. I like it for the convenience of asking it things like how my commute home is looking, traffic-wise, or what the weather forecast is going to be for the rest of the day.

The other one is still in the box, unopened. (They had a sale where you got a pair of them for under $50 so it just seemed to make sense to do that.)
I may resell it or something.

Re:why do people use these things?

[Anonymous Coward]

That's a truly hopeless thought process, mate.

Re:why do people use these things?

[Anonymous Coward]

Conservatism: The fear that somewhere, somehow, someone you think is your inferior is being treated as your equal.

I think you misspelled Communism.

Will learn the value of privacy when its too late

[joe_frisch]

There are a myriad of ways this can go badly. Everything from misinterpreting conversations leading to arrests to blackmail of politicians.

Get rid of your tracker too.

[jbn-o]

If you're like a lot of people, you already have a cell phone (more properly known as a tracker because that's what it does most of the time) so you already have the same spying capability in your house, on your person, and you likely choose to carry that around with you everywhere you go. Even technical users don't expect that the portable spy devices are listening whenever the proprietor wishes (and there's no indicator to tell the user when the mic is hot). You shouldn't own a tracker either.

Re:Get rid of your tracker too.

[Anonymous Coward]

You can control what kind of OS you install on your phone. You do not have control over firmware binary blobs but it is still better than Alexa.

Re:Get rid of your tracker too.

[e3m4n]

Considering how horribly wrong Siri gets my dictation I feel OK having an Apple device. Even if I were to say I’m gonna go blow up the school that dumb bitch would probably say something along “sorry I can’t find any shoe stores in your area“. She’s constantly fucking up pronouns. Singulars become plural, genders get swapped. Sometimes I will say him only to see it changed to they. I would understand if the words sounded similar to the word she got wrong. Nothing to be further from the case.

Re:Get rid of your tracker too.

[Anonymous Coward]

Huh. DTEK on my Blackberry Priv gives me a nice notification alert when any app touches my microphone (or contacts or location). I imagine they could backdoor it somewhere, but my firmware is handled by Blackberry.

What should be done?

[Anonymous Coward]

"they were told it wasn't Amazon's job to interfere"

This can't be true. The line HAS to be drawn somewhere. Maybe they won't report a rape, but if they hear you're making a WMD in your basement, they're probably going to say something about it.

How many people would you have to sexually assault before it IS their job to interfere? 10 or 20? Does age matter?

Re:What should be done?

[Narcocide]

(This is why the listening work is done out of the country.)

Re:What should be done?

[gweihir]

How would the "hear" that? Also, people that are capable of making a WMD will not talk about it in front of a known listening device.

Re: What should be done?

[astrofurter]

Big Brother Bezos is always watching.

Re:What should be done?

[dwillden]

Because ideally Amazon should be anonymizing the voice captures. All the agents should get is the voice clip, with at most a regional indicator. But otherwise they should get no details about who said it, where or when it was said. The point is to transcribe the words recorded and feed them back into the system with the capture so that it can learn to recognize those variants of the words.

Maybe in the future if there is demand, they could consider adding a sub routine that could identify captures that indicate serious life threatening crimes and feed those directly to the local authorities.(who would then listen and if they decide it is an actual criminal act, rather than dialogue captured from a nearby TV,) then they could pull the location and respond. But not via transcribers in another country who may be working on captures that are hours or even days old.

And what does making a WMD sound like? Is it a WMD or is it a chemical experiment for school? Or a home inventor at work building the next super duper vacuum to sell? Or a couple retired military buddies talking about some of the IED's they ran across in Iraq back in the Day?

If you care that much, poison the well

[bobstreo]

Lock a random sentence generator, with multiple voices into a box with your choice of home spy systems.

Feed your spot, echo, home, siri, cortana GB of gibberish 24x7

Re: If you care that much, poison the well

[Anonymous Coward]

+5 Inspirational

Re:If you care that much, poison the well

[gweihir]

Be on a blacklist that makes this ineffective within 15 minutes. The ones running this operation may have absolutely no ethics, but they are not terminally stupid.

Re:If you care that much, poison the well

[drewlake2000]

And yet you share this on a publicly available website...

Re:If you care that much, poison the well

[Anonymous Coward]

The ones running this operation may have absolutely no ethics, but they are not terminally stupid.

Why not? Everyone else is.

People don't believe it though.

[Narcocide]

I knew this was happening. Everyone I've warned about though, just plays it down. They like to believe that the chances of being listened to are very slim. They like to believe the privacy controls are sufficient and reliable.

Star Trek was never utopian.

[Anonymous Coward]

Even in TOS.

Ever remember the miners they were putting pressure on to join the federation? Or how some planets were poor, or remote, or simply colonies intended to stay free of big government influence?

No? Star Trek had alot of lessons in it, and while Roddenberry intended it to be mostly about the great prospects for the future, plenty of the writers he used placed cautionary tales about big government in it, even back then. The Federation was on the surface much better than other solutions but always for the military, prestigious scientists, and politicians above others.

Interesting

[93 Escort Wagon]

So how many times, when we’ve discussed these devices before and someone like me has brought up this EXACT concern... has someone right here said some variant of “oh, no, they don’t transmit anything unless it’s preceded by the trigger phrase”?

Re:Interesting

[TheGratefulNet]

they (we) need to teach kids, early, ideally in school that:

if a politician or businessman is saying something, its generally a good bet that he's lying.

business has no ethics, not anymore. it will do anything to make a profit. lying is just a tool they allow themselves.

kids need to learn this so that we can fix it next generation. they have the benefit of the internet so they have no excuse to grow up not knowing this.

Re:Interesting

[gweihir]

While I agree on the problem, the solution is not going to work as most people (and most children) are stupid. Just look at the decisions they make. They know that politicians are lying, yet they still vote for the one that tells the better lies. They know corporations are just after money, yet they believe the ads. They vote against their own freedom, against their economic well-being and against their future. They are driven by fear, greed, hate and arrogance, and rationality makes only very rare appearances, if at all. And the "leaders" are cut from the same cloth.

I am sorry to say this, but this installment of the human race is fucked, and it is doing all the fucking to itself. Sure, there is a minority (may 10-15%) that actually understands how things work, that can think independently, that can verify facts and that can recognize a thing for what it is. But these are far too few. It is almost as if this planet is a failed experiment as to whether this mix of independent thinkers and others works and I think we can safely say it works badly and no way to fix it that can actually be implemented is known.

Re:Interesting

[SuricouRaven]

The article does not claim otherwise. It only claims that humans may listen to what is said *after* the trigger phrase, or after something which the box misinterprets as the trigger phrase.

Re:Interesting

[dwillden]

But they don't transmit anything unless the device is activated by the trigger phase. What is captured is coming after the trigger phrase. My Alexa gets triggered all the time when someone calls for my son Alex. My Android phone used to get triggered occasionally by a catch phrase a Talk radio host on a local station used to use frequently. But over time it learned and those trigger incidents were reduced. As I'm sure my Alexa will learn the difference in Alex and Alexa and stop triggering without the final syllable.

They still require the trigger phrase before they start recording. So if you are planning to commit a crime, unplug and turn off your smart devices so you don't accidently say a trigger phrase. If you are committing an illegal home intrusion, expect to be recorded by home security systems anyway so just don't do it.

Re:Interesting

[grep -v '.*' *]

I've got Google Mini Spy. Actually, I like it. But I've been watching Movies and some Anime, and BLEEP it wakes up for just a second and BLOOP it drops out again. When *I* trigger it, there's a 4? second delay before it drops out on silence.

I'm listening and I can't figure out what the trigger was. A few times I've rewound but it didn't trigger the 2nd time. (Didn't go back far enough? FBI muting for a coffee break? High Frequency Transmissions back to the Mother Ship? [And you thought Apple's Space Ship building was actually a BUILDING.] )

Re:Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

People aren't stupid in general; they are willfully ignorant. Because allowing themselves to think about how utterly fucked we are is uncomfortable, and the vast majority will prioritize comfort over thought 99.9% of the time. I know I would have an EXTREMELY difficult time finding an adult that doesn't know that all politicians are shit-slingers more than truth tellers, but rather than think about that and how to deal with it, it's much easier to just keep voting for "my side," without thought to what that causes long term and who (everyone) or what (environment, Earth, even space now) is being damaged or destroyed in the process. That's dark thoughts, and we've been told for two generations at this point that dark thoughts are bad and if you have too many of them you probably are chemically unbalanced and need to take drugs until you forget why you're having all those horrible dark thoughts.

Those of us that aren't comfortable ignoring reality are stuck watching it crumble around us because the vast majority are doing the adult equivalent of sticking their fingers in their ears, closing their eyes and going, "LA LA LA CAN'T HEAR YOU!" It's maddening, but I don't really know what the cure for it is.

Re:Interesting

[skaralic]

While I agree on the problem, the solution is not going to work as most people (and most children) are stupid. Just look at the decisions they make. They know that politicians are lying, yet they still vote for the one that tells the better lies. They know corporations are just after money, yet they believe the ads. They vote against their own freedom, against their economic well-being and against their future. They are driven by fear, greed, hate and arrogance, and rationality makes only very rare appearances, if at all. And the "leaders" are cut from the same cloth.

I am sorry to say this, but this installment of the human race is fucked, and it is doing all the fucking to itself. Sure, there is a minority (may 10-15%) that actually understands how things work, that can think independently, that can verify facts and that can recognize a thing for what it is. But these are far too few. It is almost as if this planet is a failed experiment as to whether this mix of independent thinkers and others works and I think we can safely say it works badly and no way to fix it that can actually be implemented is known.

Relax. The world is complicated. Progress is not a straight line. People are free to make their own decisions, your understanding is not required. On the whole, we are doing amazingly well. The "challenges" of today are nothing compared to what we faced in the past. Nothing.

Get some perspective.

Re:Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

"I am sorry to say this, but this installment of the human race is fucked, and it is doing all the fucking to itself. "
I got news to you buddy, this has been going on all the time, not just recently. And we seem to be near the beginning of a new 'cycle'. Lets look at history:

1. how would you like to go 'die for your king' and be labeled a 'dirty traitor' and executed or worse if you didn't go with the program?
2. how would you like to be a poor/starving peasant under the medieval lord (we seem to be going in this direction again) and be treated worse than a shitstain
and exposed to church bullshit (today there is 'democracy' and 'freedom of speech' instead of 'jesus loves you')
3.how would you like to have to go to 'army' for 20+ years and 'enjoy pillaging/murdering' around the world, probably dying in the process.
4. how would you like to live in great poverty and then go 'die for your country', because 'we promise this will solve everything' ...

From 50-70' were good times, after that ignorant people ("its not that bad yet, we can go back to sleep" ) paved the road to today.
History of humanity is history of shit and hell.

Re:Interesting

[gweihir]

A matter of terminology. I use "willfully ignorant" as a subset of "stupid". You are certainly correct that this is the usual form it takes.

Personally, I work on not caring too much and being a somewhat fascinated observer of this self-annihilation. Clearly I still have some way to go. Fortunately, I decided early on that I will not put children into _this_ world, so I am at least not guilty of inflicting it on somebody else.

Re:Interesting

[gweihir]

Dead wrong. The challenges of the past were not global and quite a few civilizations managed to wipe themselves out by their stupidity throughout history. Today we do not have redundancy in this way anymore, everything is far too global.

Re:Interesting

[gweihir]

I completely agree on that.

Re:Interesting

[skaralic]

Dead wrong. The challenges of the past were not global and quite a few civilizations managed to wipe themselves out by their stupidity throughout history. Today we do not have redundancy in this way anymore, everything is far too global.

Yes, WW2 was not a global thing.

The Black Plague was not a global thing.

In total, the plague may have reduced the world population from an estimated 450 million to 350–375 million in the 14th century.[8] It took 200 years for the world population to recover to its previous level.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Death

Remind us, again, what are the existential challenges that you're facing in your life?

Learn some history. Get some perspective.

Re:Interesting

[gweihir]

Learn some history. Get some perspective.

Instead I will just not listen to idiots like you.

Re:Interesting

[skaralic]

Learn some history. Get some perspective.

Instead I will just not listen to idiots like you.

Ad hominem to the rescue! What a winner.

Re:Interesting

[gweihir]

Well, you started it. I doubt you are smart enough to see it though.

Re:Interesting

[skaralic]

Well, you started it.

Excellent comeback. My kids use that defence as well.

I doubt you are smart enough to see it though.

Another ad hominem, just in case the first one was missed.

Re:Interesting

[Anonymous Coward]

I would guess it downloaded something to say to ignore that invalid trigger from then on.

We take the security and privacy...

[gweihir]

...of our customers' personal information seriously.

Translation: We do not give a fuck about you or your privacy. We will keep these recordings forever and eventually monetize them any way possible.

From what I have seen, the more a company stresses how it values privacy, the less it actually does. The "Big Lie" approach at work.

Re:We take the security and privacy...

[tsa]

They do take the security and privacy of their customers’ info seriously. They keep it locked away and sell it only to people they trust. It would be a bad idea to sell it to someone who might not pay for the info.

Re:We take the security and privacy...

[gweihir]

Heheheh, indeed!

Re:We take the security and privacy...

[swillden]

They do take the security and privacy of their customers’ info seriously. They keep it locked away and sell it only to people they trust. It would be a bad idea to sell it to someone who might not pay for the info.

I doubt they're dumb enough to sell data, to anyone.

Aside from the PR and regulatory concerns raised by selling data, if you sell data you can only sell it once to each buyer. If you sell some service that uses the data (e.g. targeted advertising), without revealing the data itself or the identity of the user, then you can sell that service many times to each buyer. Further, if the prospective buyer doesn't have as much expertise as you do, they probably get more value from the data-based service than they would from the data itself, so they're actually perfectly happy to pay for the service and let you do all of the hard work. This is Google's business model. Not sure about Amazon.

No you don't

[Anonymous Coward]

You only have this surveillance if you gave Google access to the mic permission.

I suggest you go into your phone and access permissions, microphone and turn off everything but the camera app and phone apps.

The big problem with Android is you cannot deny apps NETWORK access, so I'd like to stop the phone and camera apps accessing networks.

Re:No you don't

[hawguy]

You only have this surveillance if you gave Google access to the mic permission.

I suggest you go into your phone and access permissions, microphone and turn off everything but the camera app and phone apps.

The big problem with Android is you cannot deny apps NETWORK access, so I'd like to stop the phone and camera apps accessing networks.

You have a lot of faith that the creator of the operating system didn't give themselves a back-door way to enable the microphone anytime they like, regardless of what you've set the permissions to.

While I feel pretty confident that when I deny a random app's access to the microphone, that app really can't access it, but I have less confidence Google themselves can't turn on the mic anytime they want.

Re:No you don't

[Anonymous Coward]

AFWall+ gives this feature.

Re:No you don't

[dwillden]

Google, Apple, Samsung, and every other device manufacturer that has rolled their own voice recognition system.

Re:No you don't

[drewlake2000]

I don't mind to be honest. Let them listen. I only pity the poor person listening in. I not saying if you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear, but I have no fear of this at all. What's the worst they can do with it? Laugh at me behind my back, well I haven't been afraid of that since I was 6. A data breach is another matter, but if that happens then the voice recordings are probably the least interesting. I also get it that other people don't feel the same way, and good for you if you don't. Just don't think those of us who are fine with it are somehow stupid with no technical nous. I'm happy for a corporation to have a good profile of me as long as they comply with GDPR. I would rather not have advertising everywhere, but if I want free products they have to fund it somehow.

Re: No you don't

[Xarin]

Donâ(TM)t forget the accelerometer can pick up vibrations i.e sound and used as a microphone to some extent. I do not believe access can be disabled.

Re: No you don't

[Anonymous Coward]

This is exactly the wrong attitude.

That's like saying "well it doesn't matter that my house is full of cameras, I feel bad for the person that has to watch my every move"

Also just because you want to live like a caged zoo animal doesn't mean everyone does

Re: No you don't

[drewlake2000]

Do read it again old chap.

Re:No you don't

[Anonymous Coward]

You are willfully collaborating with the enemy in an information war. "I gave up the leader of my French resistance cell, but it doesn't affect me, I get free stuff!"

You ARE stupid and can't see the value of your boring information. But when it's combined with billions of other people's information, it becomes a formidable power. If you don't think you can be persuaded in any way, shape, or form by an enormous group of people who's sole purpose is to persuade you in subtle ways, you are not only stupid but also naive. When the data companies have that much data, and control much of what we see, it is without a doubt an information war, and you're on the wrong side.

Re:No you don't

[swillden]

While I feel pretty confident that when I deny a random app's access to the microphone, that app really can't access it, but I have less confidence Google themselves can't turn on the mic anytime they want.

FWIW, if any Google apps (including Google Play services) had the ability to turn on the mic without the user's knowledge or permission, the Google security and privacy teams would both consider it to be a serious bug. And, of course, there's nothing in the base Android platform that provides Google with any special access. Note that I'm not saying Google apps don't have the permissions required to enable the mic -- I think Play services has pretty much every permission defined by the platform -- but that the apps must not use that permission without user knowledge and permission.

Re: Will learn the value of privacy when its too l

[astrofurter]

Presumably both of those things have been happening for quite a while now. The system is operating as designed.

Re:Ha! Joke is on them

[Anonymous Coward]

So you keep telling Alexa "I want to be a little girl"?

Hot damn, it works! The WebTubes never cease to amaze.

Alexa, order me a French maid outfit and pack my bags...

I'm shocked

[Anonymous Coward]

No, not really. If you didn't assume this was happening then you're an idiot. If you didn't think some people might get blackmailed this way, then you're a fool.

*Deliberately* missing the point here!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is news so people like you don't go "put on your tin foil hat"!
It's proof!

Not that anticonspiracy theorists like you would stop then. You simply switch to "We all knew this! Why is this news!". As with all believers, including conspiracy theorists of both polarities (pro/anti), contradicting evidence only *strenghtens* the (clinging to the) delusion.

Besides: Something that is wrong, should be repeated in the news Until.It. Is. Dead.
People should have their noses dragged through it, until. they. change.
It should not ever be forgotten and ignored, like so many horrible things that are still going on.

Re: *Deliberately* missing the point here!

[Anonymous Coward]

This is something of a good point IF the end result is change.

If it just becomes "well we just accept it anyway" then there is a real problem. Which I think is why informed people are so awestruck, it seemed obvious.

However if people really didn't know, then I agree that it should be headline news and cast in the most negative public light, so that it might change for the better of everyone

Yeah, Google tracks GPS when off.

[Anonymous Coward]

You should have read it here on /., several weeks/months ago.
That is where those statistics on when shops are the most frequented come from.

And Google/Siri/Alexa by definition must listen to sound at all times to work. And Google's version of that is active as long as you have it installed and not willfully blocked. And that "switch" is just some software UI. You haven't exactly checked if it is honored, or just as ignored as the GPS one. Have you?

Besides, any update could change that. Hell, any of the GApps with root permissions could just switch it up behind your back, like a root kit. (Remember Sony's DRM rootkit?)

Yeah, you confidence is blind and delusional. Take off your tin foil hat.

That's called a blackeyer.

[Anonymous Coward]

They are like conspiracy theorists, but with the opposite polarity.

Just as much clinging to a delusion that they *need* to be true.

There are far more and far worse blackeyers than all regular conspiracy theorists combined.
Yet, or maybe exactly because they are in the majority, they are extremely smug and condescending about it too.
At least regular conspiracy theorists know everyone thinks they are crazy.

It's not your job to report strange actions

[Anonymous Coward]

Just forward to management so that the subjects can be added to the master's list for enhanced revenue opportunities. In the coming tech wars certain assets, er people, will be required to perform seemingly inexplicable actions and sometimes they need motivation.

The truth is...

[LordHighExecutioner]

...that Alexa actually has no AI at all. It just records audio commands, sends them to a central server, where human monkeys listen to conversations, and make Alexa act accordingly. It is just like the Truman show, only bigger. Probably the same happens for Siri.

Re:The truth is...

[sad_]

human monkeys?

you mean like the brain enhanced chinees monkeys? that's why they made them? my god...

Re:The truth is...

[Anonymous Coward]

...that Alexa actually has no AI at all. It just records audio commands, sends them to a central server, where human monkeys listen to conversations, and make Alexa act accordingly.

Get real, I mean you would probably need to have a massive web site dedicated to finding workers willing to do small menial tasks for pennies. Call it something like Amazon Mechanical Turk...

Re:The truth is...

[robot5x]

A similar approach got one scammer quite far down in lil 'ol New Zealand

Re:The truth is...

[swillden]

...that Alexa actually has no AI at all. It just records audio commands, sends them to a central server, where human monkeys listen to conversations, and make Alexa act accordingly. It is just like the Truman show, only bigger. Probably the same happens for Siri.

But not Google Home / Google Assistant?

Give them something to listen to...

[Anonymous Coward]

Put Echo in a soundproof box with an endless playback of heavy breathing, or farts, or burps, or all three. Maybe some fapping noises as well.

Illegal in Germany

[Lonewolf666]

Under German law, devices that can be used as hidden surveillance device are illegal. The doll "My Friend Cayla" comes under that and was banned in Germany.

I wonder if Alexa is the next casualty of that... would serve Amazon right ;-)

Re:Illegal in Germany

[Anonymous Coward]

The Echo is not hidden, but if it's illegal, then all smartphones should be be too.

Re:Illegal in Germany

[Anonymous Coward]

sounds like 'German law' is full of shit, because 'mobile phones' are legal.

Re:Illegal in Germany

[Lonewolf666]

If the provider or smartphone manufacturer has the ability to listen in on a conversation, or just listen while the user is not making a call, I'm pretty sure that would be illegal.

Amazon

[maxiposik]

I am not surprised much about it. But you know what? I don't care at all. I love amazon because it allows me to earn money selling stuff on their marketplace and it's a much better job than sitting at an office phone-calling the whole day... And by the way, it also isn't hard at all. Browse through amz scout website, learn all the required info and that's it, you'll be ready.

Privacy?

[argStyopa]

Nobody who VOLUNTARILY PLACED AN ALWAYS-ON MICROPHONE IN THEIR HOME is seriously complaining about the privacy violation here, are they?

They do NOT require trigger phrases

[Anonymous Coward]

Android phones do NOT require trigger phrases to transmit data.

While at work, with my phone idle sitting next to me. I was discussing ruby jewelry with a co-worker. Definetely did not say any trigger phrases. With in 30 minutes, my chrome browser is displaying ads for ruby jewelry as I surf the web. Never typed in any searches for ruby jewelry.

And this has happened with other phrases as well....

From the journal "Duh"

[Anonymous Coward]

That's how all machine learning systems improve. Humans look at real data, annotate it, and feed it back into the system.

This is how it works

[Anonymous Coward]

Maybe people misunderstand how these AI devices learn? Seems rather trivial that this is happening and yet people with tin foil hats like to make it out as something sinister. I guess if your creep factor is that high then don't buy a AI device for your home or office and problem will be solved.

People will think this is bad

[Anonymous Coward]

But it probably isn't, it really really sucks that they will give people paid jobs just because they won't do the work from the bottom.

it doesn't run on magic??

[Anonymous Coward]

Yes it's a device that literally listens to what you say and sends it back to hq. That's how it works.

I'm more confused and surprised that this article was written?

Companies like Google and Amazon are built on out data. Why would it surprise you that they're analyzing your data?

Its a device designed to learn how to better sell you things, and sell that data to other companies...that's literally the entire point of the product

Town idiot

[fluffernutter]

Who is the idiot who didn't think this would be the case? Hint: So do smartphones, Uber, your "smart TV", Facebook and Uber.

Now Trump Has All the Ammunition He Needs

[Anonymous Coward]

Now that it has been exposed that Amazon is listening to crimes being committed but failing to notify authorities, it looks as if Trump now has all the ammunition he needs to shut down Any criticism or opposition by Bezos and Amazon. No doubt with this revelation Trump's new FBI inquisitors are already investigating. This is going to be very hard on the stock price.

Connecting dots

[Anonymous Coward]

Amazon has intensive information on its users:

- High quality voice print samples of millions of persons
- Geolocation via Alexa location, amazon aps GPS location on your phone/tablet
- Account information, name address, age, etc
- Credit header information obtained via your credit card used at amazon
- What you read, watch and purchase at amazon.com
- What you eat via Whole Foods and eventually a regular supermarket when Amazon buys a chain
- Where you work, where your kids go to school, where you go
- Samples of your text, writing style, etc whenever you enter a product review on amazon.com
- Your photo, height, age, eye color, hair color, etc when you are recorded at a self checkout at an Amazon bricks and mortar store
- Persons in your household via cell phone gps tracking on amazon phone apps, alexa listening to background voices

With high quality video and audio samples from you they will be able to identify you anywhere you go.

That vast data will be subject to legal searches via governments and opposing attorney if your are involved in a court case.

Also expect Amazon to start selling point of sale systems ala Square just to get the data. I paid via credit card for a taxi in LA which used square, needed the receipt, so square got my cell phone number to text me a receipt. Months later I paid at a restaurant with the same credit card and the cashier asked me when I asked for a receipt if it was ok to sent it to my phone at ZZZ-ZZZ-ZZZZ phone number. I had not given my phone number to the restaurant.

Re:Connecting dots

[postbigbang]

And without those samples, they won't know who you are. You and I have the choices of putting our phones in Faraday bags, and thwarting the surveillance economy at ever turn if we think about it. Most will not.

But this is about choices, and fealty to the results of those choices. Government deadlocks will prohibit meaningful moves towards privacy unless that fealty is revoked.

It is all extremely secret

[Anonymous Coward]

.. until a person with a warrant wants to sit and listen to everything happening in your house.

Sensationalism is profit!

[Anonymous Coward]

If the headline had been "Company with Interactive Voice Response system tests voice recognition" nobody would click, would they?

SURPRISE, SURPRISE...NOT!

[Anonymous Coward]

How was it not obvious this would be going on? This is exactly why I don't have any of these particular gadgets in my house.

Amazon's assurances about security are entirely insufficient. It's not just about Amazon employees who process this stuff having access, its law enforcement who will come looking for this stuff as they choose. I don't do illegal shit but I certainly don't need someone entirely misunderstanding a conversation or taking it entirely out of context.

Re:SO LYING APOLOGIST FAGGOT KENDALL HAS NO ISSUE

[Anonymous Coward]

No, he perjured himself under oath. It's not the beer, you lying faggot. IT'S THE LYING, YOU LYING FAGGOT.

YOU TELL A LIE UNDER OATH AND YOU ARE A CRIMINAL.

Sort of like Slick Willie getting impeached over a blowjob? [/sarc]