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MIT Says We're Overlooking a Near-Term Solution To Diesel Trucking Emissions (arstechnica.com)
An anonymous reader shares a report: Trucking in the US is still driven by diesel-fueled, compression-ignition (CI), internal combustion engines. Daniel Cohn and Leslie Bromberg, a pair of researchers from the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT), published a paper with the Society of Automotive Engineers, suggesting that the best way forward is not to wait for all-electric or hydrogen-powered semis, but to build a plug-in hybrid electric (PHEV) truck with an internal combustion engine/generator that can burn either gasoline or renewable ethanol or methanol. Such a setup preserves the range and affordability that's expected of diesel long-haul trucks while significantly reducing the emissions associated with diesel. To boot, it's a near-term solution; no waiting for battery weight to fall or hydrogen refueling stations to be installed.
A hybrid heavy-duty system isn't a completely novel idea, though a PHEV system has yet to be widely applied and tested in long-haul heavy-duty trucking. A company called Hyliion introduced a hybrid electric-diesel truck in 2017, and San Diego uses a hybrid electric-compressed natural gas bus on its transit system, though the former still grapples with diesel emissions and the latter is not for long-haul use. But there are some distinct problems with all-electric and all-diesel trucks that a hybrid flex-fuel truck could solve. First, freight companies are looking for the cheapest way to transport goods from point A to point B, so expensive electric vehicles don't make short-term economic sense, especially if you're competing with other freight companies using cheaper diesel engines.
A hybrid heavy-duty system isn't a completely novel idea, though a PHEV system has yet to be widely applied and tested in long-haul heavy-duty trucking. A company called Hyliion introduced a hybrid electric-diesel truck in 2017, and San Diego uses a hybrid electric-compressed natural gas bus on its transit system, though the former still grapples with diesel emissions and the latter is not for long-haul use. But there are some distinct problems with all-electric and all-diesel trucks that a hybrid flex-fuel truck could solve. First, freight companies are looking for the cheapest way to transport goods from point A to point B, so expensive electric vehicles don't make short-term economic sense, especially if you're competing with other freight companies using cheaper diesel engines.
There's another kind of heavy diesel-electric vehicle that's been around for decades: diesel locomotives.
I keep wondering how light passenger cars got the hybrid treatment first and long-haul trucks still haven't, when the first successful experience in the field clearly pointed to the latter being the ideal candidate.
"A door is what a dog is perpetually on the wrong side of" - Ogden Nash
Why doesn't the trucking industry use gasoline or ethanol now? Isn't diesel the most efficient fuel?
Hybrids really shine when they are compared against gasoline engines that do not run full duty. I donâ(TM)t think they compare so well against either diesel or full duty situations. That is, a battery bank isnâ(TM)t going to help much when the truck is spending itâ(TM)s life already at full throttle.
I think you underestimate just how much I just dont care.
It's got higher energy density, and the slower and simpler engines burn the fuel more efficiently. Substituting methanol and ethanol for diesel, much less gasoline, for high torque industrial engines is just pants-on-head retarded.
"Hey, lets burn more carbon in less efficient engines because we need to make paper quotas and get more grant money!"
How about simply switching them to biodiesel (by law)???
& also later on switching them to electric hybrid biodiesel (by law)???
Ethanol/methanol is a lot more flammable/dangerous, during accidents/leaks/storage/transport, compared to biodiesel!!!
(& I am guessing, biodiesel is also a lot easier & efficient to produce than ethanol/methanol!!!)
Where is trucking *not* "driven by diesel-fueled, compression-ignition (CI), internal combustion engines"
Just curious.
"...However, the private sector does seem to have dipped its toes in hybrid long-haul truck powertrains. In 2017, truck engine maker Cummins announced that it would be developing a 100-mile-range electric semi with a diesel generator on board that could extend the battery range to 300 miles. Last September, the company debuted a hybrid electric and diesel or natural gas powertrain called the PowerDrive. ..." ...and they haven't sold ANY because no serious freight company is willing to a) spend more than they have to on boutique technologies; b) sacrifice both weight capacity and RANGE (these have ranges of 100 miles, or 300 miles with a larger weight sacrifice). A typical truck 7mpg with 300gal tanks has a range of TWO THOUSAND miles and can be filled/turned in about 30 mins. These electric vehicles require 8 hours for full charge.
Sure perhaps some city buses or school buses will use the tech because (apparently) they don't have a bottom line to meet. But real trucking co's are already bled white by new rest hours, requirements to buy new eco-trucks (making the used sale value of their old units plummet), idling units, and a lack of drivers. It's not like there's a surplus of wealth in the business.
And trust me, you don't want to see the cumulative impact of even a 15% increase on transport costs across the supply chain.
-Styopa
Never a good idea to burn food.
Waiting for the Slashdot anti-electric car crew to shoot down anything with a whiff of green in it in 5.... 4.... 3.... 2...
Yeah every year the local newspaper always runs a feel good story about the area kook who converted his VW Microbus to run on discarded cooking oil he collects from the nearby restaurants, but the thing is there are just not enough Chinese takeout joints to supply the entirety of the trucking industry.
While toxic emissions are higher with dogs, the carbon footprint is smaller than gasoline. The energy intensive refining process and lower effiency of gasoline engines makes it a shitty choice if you're trying to reduce carbon emissions.
Some railroads in the U.S. are electrified, most aren't. Trains have to swap locomotives to go between the two. Add a battery car, add a generator car if necessary instead.
Do it for ferries too.
for this nonsense. Facts and logic? Too complex - we are busy humping with Greta T. here. Get lost!
I didn't find any in TFA. I might as well try to read what our two intrepid professors actually wrote.
What am I saying, this is Slashdot...
I find it interesting they are going away from diesel engine instead of embracing its performance and durability and building on tech that is already established.
This will still increase actual emissions.
Sure, if you're driving a 12 mpg truck, getting a new hybrid with 40 mpg will be better, but it had to be made first.
Replace more trucks and cars with trains, and convert those to electric/hydrogen hybrids instead. High speed passenger/freight trains and medium-speed efficient trains.
And stop ordering Same Day Service or Amazon Prime, you're killing the planet.
Actually, the planet will survive, you won't.
-- Tigger warning: This post may contain tiggers! --
I'm concerned this focus (not the Ford kind) on cars and trucks ICE regarding pollution sounds more and more like an ideological crusade and/or some kind of misdirection/distraction.
It's like optimising code, you find and go for the hot spot but at some point it's not the hot spot anymore.
Between the lobbyists (farming, container ships, etc), ecological zealots (not the informed reasonable kind), and a bit of a sunny-California tech world somewhat disconnected from the rest of the world (FYI: Solar panels don't work when covered in snow or on cloudy coasts, guys. Neither are electric cars that get garbage range under -30'C practical.)
I fear we're being manipulated/distracted into overlooking some lower hanging fruits for political convenience.
Even even looking at cars we need to take into account that electric cars are actually MORE polluting than traditional ICE cars in regions using coal-fired electric power plants.
That's not counting that they're more polluting to produce and recycle. It generates 8.8 tonnes of CO2 to make an electric car vs 5.6 tonnes for an ICE car, should we take the fight first over making cars last much longer? Keep in mind that's just the CO2 environmental cost for production, nothing said about all the other solvents and the recycling costs.
How can we make sure we're not taken for a ride (pun intended again, sue me :) ) by lobby groups who don't want us to look more closely at the pollution their industry is generating?
I find it interesting they are going away from diesel engine instead of embracing its performance and durability and building on tech that is already established.
Same here. Whatever engine they put on the truck, you want lowest cost per mile and lowest emissions per mile. Hopefully those are the same.
I remember hearing about this crazy new idea, hybrid cars, what, 15 years ago? The talk at the time was the same idea. The wheels would always be driven by electric motors. The ICE would recharge the battery and might come on to augment the battery in times of high load. Everyone I talked to assumed there'd be no mechanical linkage from the ICE to the wheels. Turns out that's not how they build hybrids today so what do I know?
Anyway, the theory was that since the ICE only needed to generate electricity to recharge the battery, it could run at an optimal load all the time. No need to run at a wide range of RPMs and range of loads.
So I wonder what's the design center of these rigs? Do they need a mechanical transmission, with all the weight, reliability, and cost that entails? Or could it be more like a diesel/electric locomotive, where my understanding is the diesels generate electricity which drives electric motors.
Solutions must be *VIABLE* or they are not solutions. It is unfortunate, but their cost makes them not an adoptable solution...