Slashdot Mirror
US Government Admits It Doesn't Know If Assange Cracked Password For Manning (vice.com)
An anonymous reader quotes a report from Motherboard: The U.S. government does not have any evidence that WikiLeaks founder Julian Assange succeeded in cracking a password for whistleblower Chelsea Manning, according to a newly unsealed affidavit written by an FBI agent. Last week, Assange was escorted out of the Ecuadorian embassy in London, and arrested for breaching bail in connection to allegations of sexual misconduct in Sweden. The day of Assange's arrest, the U.S. government unsealed an indictment against Assange with a hacking conspiracy charge. The Department of Justice accused WikiLeaks' founder of agreeing to help Manning crack a password that would have helped the former military analyst get into a classified computer system under a username that did not belong to her, making it harder for investigators to trace the eventual leak.
On Monday, the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia unsealed the affidavit, which is dated December 21, 2017. The document contains more details on the interactions between Assange and Manning. And, most significantly, contains the admission that the U.S. government -- as of December of 2017 -- had no idea whether Assange actually cracked the password. Until now, we knew that the U.S. was aware that Assange attempted to crack a password for Manning once, but didn't know if it had more evidence of further attempts or whether it thought Assange was successful. "Investigators have not recovered a response by Manning to Assange's question, and there is no other evidence as to what Assange did, if anything, with respect to the password," FBI agent Megan Brown said in the affidavit. According to lawyers, the simple offer to help can be considered part of a conspiracy to violate the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.
"For purposes of a conspiracy charge, it is not necessary for the action to be successful. All that is needed is an overt action in furtherance of the conspiracy, namely Assange's efforts to crack the password for Manning," Bradley, a lawyer at the Mark Zaid P.C law firm in Washington, DC, told Motherboard via email. "That he failed is irrelevant."
On Monday, the U.S. District Court for the Eastern District of Virginia unsealed the affidavit, which is dated December 21, 2017. The document contains more details on the interactions between Assange and Manning. And, most significantly, contains the admission that the U.S. government -- as of December of 2017 -- had no idea whether Assange actually cracked the password. Until now, we knew that the U.S. was aware that Assange attempted to crack a password for Manning once, but didn't know if it had more evidence of further attempts or whether it thought Assange was successful. "Investigators have not recovered a response by Manning to Assange's question, and there is no other evidence as to what Assange did, if anything, with respect to the password," FBI agent Megan Brown said in the affidavit. According to lawyers, the simple offer to help can be considered part of a conspiracy to violate the Computer Fraud and Abuse Act.
"For purposes of a conspiracy charge, it is not necessary for the action to be successful. All that is needed is an overt action in furtherance of the conspiracy, namely Assange's efforts to crack the password for Manning," Bradley, a lawyer at the Mark Zaid P.C law firm in Washington, DC, told Motherboard via email. "That he failed is irrelevant."
Trump in 2020!
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NT
Obama let Chelsea Manning off so he/she has nothing to lose or gain to help any one.
With trump it may of been death by firing squad
So what you are saying is, Assange kept himself locked up willingly for 7 years for charges that likely will not stick. Don't you feel pretty stupid for being a "hero" now, Julian?
His name is Bradley Manning. He is a man.
Attempting hacking the nsa or us gov is still a crime.
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The story I always heard was that Assange came into contact with the material way through the means of an anonymous collection process, which forms the basis of how Wikileaks is supposed to work? Or is that all BS too? All the "hacking" was done on Manning's side, which isn't hacking because his job was analyst for the military and working with cables was his job, didn't he just used his own access to steal the information in the first place?
Or have I got it all wrong here?
Unskinny Bobst, Bobst, Bobst, Bobst.
Turned your daddy gay, YEAH!!
don't ffel that person. Ask your W3 strongly urge
The burden of protection from unwanted, non-violent interaction should be on the Government, not The People.
The NSA's protections should be so good, that they don't mind if people try to tinker with their stuff, and should instead invite it, so as to help them find their weaknesses. If the NSA exposes its infrastructure to the rest of the world, that's the fault of the NSA.
What's next? You can't take video of a federal building?
the longer and the more you effort to put Assange in prison because he and Manning exposed your war crimes, the more it becomes clear to the world that your government is the very definition of a terrorist organization.
Still a DUDE no matter his delusions.
Julian is one of the few true journalists left. He exposed corruption at the highest levels at personal risk/danger.
Mainstream media are nothing but propagandists trolls outputting approved fluff.
We need more people like Julian - and the truth will set us free.
for a man and do a double take
US government: Let's keep him in jail and maybe apply "enhanced interrogation techniques" on him for a few years, then see what happens. Or, not see what happens, like with those poor saps at Gitmo.
UK extradition judge: Sounds like a plan! To America you go my boy... and get a haircut.
You think they're going to have trouble making charges stick? You're crazy.
Government, especially the justice system, is not as logical as you think. It's complicated on purpose: Any outcome is justifiable to enough people.
Speculation: He were probably more worried about being convicted of rape. His narcissistic tendencies combined with PR makes being a "martyr" for many years better than spending a year or so in prison if convicted, add the ridiculous crap about Swedish collaboration with USA plus torture plus death penalty etc. which are obvious bullshit feeding his ego.
Now while these things are true and he offered to help crack a code that would perhaps be worthy of a conspiracy charge however he wasn't on US soil at the time and so for the civilized world the USA can't have jurisdiction. Let's see if UK courts are reasonable.
Not Chelsea Manning. Do not recognize mental illness. It is a thing to be cured, not a thing to be encoraged.
Corporatism != Free Market
He's a native speaker, so when he writes English, he's actually just hearing the words almost like dictation.
Well, "may of" sounds a hell of a lot like "may have" or "may've" (if you will).
A non-native speaker isn't just taking dictation; a non-native speaker must think about what he's writing, and thus there are many more checks and balances in place, which will capture such a mistake (at greater expense, of course).
ENGLISH MOTHERFUCKER DO YOU SPEAK IT?!
It's not clear to me if Assangs actually attempted to crack the password of simply said he would in a chat.
Competition Good, Monopoly Bad.
I say this as a general supporter of Wikileaks:
If the US actually has correspondence between Assange and Manning, where Assange offers to crack a password (successful or not), then it would completely destroy Wikileak's pure journalism claims and Assange is guilty of attempted espionage.
The question at hand is whether they actually have that hard evidence or if they just finally broke Manning, who was tortured for years in a solitary + lack of sleep environment, and got her to say that Assange offered to assist.
The law is irrelevant. We do not live in a free society. We do not live under the rule of law. We are an occupied nation ruled by gangs of thugs.
You think the federal government doesn't have cases fall apart on them all the time? Hint: they do. Do you believe that juries ALWAYS side with the prosecutors in cases? Juries can and do disagree on cases...
Despite what you may think the US government isn't a monolith of people that completely agree with the exact same thing.
Even with all of that said, Assange would be facing how much time exactly in a prison in the US? The real irony would be that Assange put himself in a prison of his own design and then only to find out, absolutely nothing happens to him. Seven years of your life wasted for not wanting to face justice.
I'm not sure why we (rest of the world) allow US to control peoples behavior in other countries. Did anyone vote to allow this? Let's build a wall around US.
The USA and Saudi have a lot in common. Murder in an embassy is OK. kidnapping in a foreign country is Ok. Illegal rendition is OK. And something about dotcom.
On the same basis that would mean its fine for China to extradite US journalists for conspiracy as well. So the UK will ask them to take A back, so as not to sully the English justice system and not tie it up with an appeal..
Fuck Off APK
by asking if Russian hackers could perhaps release her emails
They only need to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that Assange tried.
If and when he faces it he's screwed on this charge -- a jury is going to pay attention to all the other flaws in his character and if he opts for a bench trial a judge is going to have a government bias.
This could turn into a long world tour. Assuming this is all the US will pursue (big IF), we're looking at 3 years fighting the extradition, 5 years being tried (time served) and serving a sentence for this in the US, another 3 years fighting extradition to Sweeden, lets be nice and give another 5 years there and finally a deportation to Australia.
2035.
This is not just some normal case where quasi-working machinery of State is going through the motions.
The Dumbocrats think Assange is responsible for Hillary losing the election, and Republitards are butthurt that Assange made them look weak; there are a lot of Unamericans out for blood.
That dude needs to get on some meds.
What kind of freak does that????
The judges just reinterpret the language to mean something else entirely.
They arrested Bradley Man ning. This is Chelsea Manning we are discussing here. Checkmate Fascists!
No, YOU fuck off loser - trying to "FRAME ME" for bs I didn't post in the 1st place: Your "bitch tactics" are pitiful, just like you are...
APK
P.S.=> Seriously - grow up bitch... apk
He has had many years to consider how to retaliate against Trump if he doesn't. Invent stories (or not?) about how he cooperated with his election team. And although he may have prevented that Hillary claimed her god-given right to become president by the grace of god, the democrats could still use him in the role of the enemy of my enemy.
See subject: You project YOU TAKE YOUR "MEDS" & "so clever" (not) of you trying to "frame me" too - all I needed to say to you was https://yro.slashdot.org/comme...
* One day in this life, I'm going to find out WHO YOU ARE & WHERE YOU ARE & fuck you up, bad...
APK
P.S.=> Little SHITBAG 'weezils' like YOU need your FUCKING SKULL COLLAPSED motherfucker... apk
Ugh, boys I am sorry. I am sooo on edge because I can't find a RELIABLE SOURCE for poppers anymore. Everything was isopropyl and now there's nothing out there you can get shipped to Canada or USA. So when I get my daily slapping or anal pounding these days I just can't get off anymore. Ever heard of a sexually frustrated woman? That's me...GayPK
I really need need need need to find some good poppers. All the leather shops I looked at in SF refused to sell to me. It was confusing...gayPK
P.S. => I am very SEXUALLY frustrated and GAY...gaypk
Bitchboy weezil found on the internet (I just replied to the disgusting little punk).
APK
P.S.=> You're gonna DIE pussy - VIOLENTLY... apk
Such a 'brave guy' (not) you are pussy! Hiding behind UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous - IF I ever catch you? You're done.
APK
P.S.=> I'll show you a rough day cocksucker - worst of your RIGHT THEN VERY SHORT LIFE if I ever find out who & where you are fucker... apk
Even if someone shows that Assange participated in a conspiracy, isn't the new standard in America that we've all agreed to not prosecute criminal conspiracies anymore?
China can ask for all the extradition it likes, nobody is obligated to honor them, however. Assange hasn't even been extradited out of the UK and people are acting like his death warrant has already been signed.
Lets face it, in the grand scheme of things, Assange is a stupid yappy dog that likes to piss all over other people's houses(like the embassy he overstayed his welcome in). He's just easy to make an example out of.
No, YOU fuck off loser - trying to "FRAME ME" for bs I didn't post in the 1st place: Your "bitch tactics" are pitiful, just like you are!
APK
P.S.=> Seriously - grow up bitch... apk
See subject: You project YOU TAKE YOUR "MEDS" & "so clever" (not) of you trying to "frame me" too - all I needed to say to you was https://yro.slashdot.org/comme...
* One day in this life, I'm going to find out WHO YOU ARE & WHERE YOU ARE & fuck you up, bad!
APK
P.S.=> Little SHITBAG 'weezils' like YOU need your FUCKING SKULL COLLAPSED motherfucker... apk
Bitchboy weezil found on the internet ^ (I just replied to the disgusting little punk).
APK
P.S.=> You're gonna DIE pussy - VIOLENTLY... apk
who?
grokparsefailure motherfucker.
Attempted hacking is totally hacking yo, but attempted conspiracy to commit treason against the USA and obstruction of justice are petty crimes not worthy of the government's time.
Just ask Trump, Don Jr and Jared!
"For purposes of a conspiracy charge, it is not necessary for the action to be successful. All that is needed is an overt action in furtherance of the conspiracy, namely Assange's efforts to crack the password for Manning,"
Even if he just said: Try 1234, hahaha.
Such a 'brave guy' (not) you are pussy! Hiding behind UNIDENTIFIABLE anonymous - IF I ever catch you? You're done.
APK
P.S.=> I'll show you a rough day cocksucker - worst of your RIGHT THEN VERY SHORT LIFE if I ever find out who & where you are fucker ... apk
kewl story bra.
LOL! "Your kind" = multiple retarded LOSERS - no questions asked! Pusscake punks & you not only KNOW it of yourselves but prove it too!
APK
P.S.=> You're a DISGUSTING whimp - I guarantee that - everyone KNOWS "your kind" bitch (disgusting weezils)... apk
however he wasn't on US soil at the time and so for the civilized world the USA can't have jurisdiction.
Where was the US Gov't server they attempted to hack?
In a very publicized case the US Govt is charging a couple dozen Russians (sorry, RUSSIANS! ) that never set foot on US soil with charges surrounding attempts to influence The US election in 2016, so I think someone that specifically targeted a US govt server falls within the IS's jurisdiction.
Let's see if UK courts are reasonable.
Meaning if they agree with your layman's interpretation of jurisdiction and extradition they are "reasonable"? If that's the definition of reasonable then I'm hoping they are "unreasonable"!
Ken
This is less being up against "prosecutors" and more "the federal government".
The Law is designed to be weaponized as necessary, superfluously equipped then your "three felonies a day" are selectively enforced, since yours were surely victimless, trivial ones. Yet technically illegal.
If you're up against another commoner, there's no monolith to fear. If you're up against an eight-figure legal team, expect them to surgically box your precious jury. If you're up against a determined actor who owns the very board game you're playing, expect Calvinball.
>face "justice"
Took you long enough. I don't care where Assange ends up, but even if he murderraped puppy orphans I wouldn't be announcing my loyalty to our cancerous justice trainwreck. Fortunately, being too uninfluential to do anything about it means I can probably live my days without being directly burned by it.
As long as he didn't aid/abet and just published what he was given passively then he's protected by longstanding case law around journalism.
If he crossed that line at any point then he's done for. This is one of the reasons you go to school for Journalism. A big part of your education is law. You have to know exactly what you can and can't publish.
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> ENGLISH MOTHERFUCKER DO YOU SPEAK IT?!
Your forgot the last part of the line: "CIGARETTES! SMOKIE SMOKIE!"
But still, a nice rememberance of Sam Kinison, thanks for the memories.
AC
That damn dirty pirate gonna take all the booty!
Now while these things are true and he offered to help crack a code that would perhaps be worthy of a conspiracy charge however he wasn't on US soil at the time and so for the civilized world the USA can't have jurisdiction
That's not how jurisdiction works. Your physical location at the time of the crime does not matter. The physical location of the crime itself does.
On the same basis that would mean its fine for China to extradite US journalists for conspiracy as well.
Legally, there's nothing stopping China from making that extradition request. There's also nothing requiring the US to comply with that extradition request.
There are reasons for extradition hearings, and one is to give one country an option to say "No".
I would purposely have hacked email servers, especially for the state dept. I'd use obscure things for serious work but a lot of the stuff you know the big government spy agencies know already would be just fine on there. Just so long as they do not know you know they are listening. Nobody ever seems to even remotely suggest that it may have been intentional (it's just normal email after all, WTF? who'd trust normal email??!) and naturally a fuss has to be made about your ignorance while dirty politicians will milk the situation knowing you can not admit your true motives/policies.
Who really thinks that nobody has briefed officials about how bad email is? for decades now?
On some level they know better. nobody in their right mind is moving nuclear launch codes around with secured email servers.
I remember when the state dept's email server was hacked as well... like that is so safe.... Oh and remember other officials used private email servers too and likely still do. That dull movie "dick" did remind people that the bush people were using private email servers on purpose only touching on it; but it was far worse back then and they also knew better. It also was quite useful in hiding actual crimes back then as well.
Democracy Now! - uncensored, anti-establishment news
and people are acting like his death warrant has already been signed.
There are good reasons to worry. First, the extradition request comes after years of denial that US is interested in prosecuting Assange.
The substance of the request is ridiculous.
Expulsion of Assange from Equador came after significant pressure on the new president from the US.
It is obviously a serious effort to punish Assange so that the next whistleblower who wants to expose US war crimes is very frightened.
"For purposes of a conspiracy charge, it is not necessary for the action to be successful. All that is needed is an overt action in furtherance of the conspiracy"
So I guess telling the Russians they should attempt to guess the password for Hillarys email server and hack her emails and then share them, might count?
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* They're playing YOUR SONG again - hahahaha classic!
(Only way "your kind" would EVER get any notice &/or notoriety...)
APK
P.S.=> Quit projecting your own mental issues onto me... apk
Manning was a guy at the time and STILL is a guy. Take it up your collective arssses
Speculation: you're a huge fan of Bari Weiss. You know, the NYT reporter who called Tulsi Gabbard an 'Assad toady' without being able to define or even spell the word.
Because the Swedes handing people over to the Americans to be tortured? Yeah, that actually happened. Sweden going to great lengths to get someone extradited to Sweden where they are promptly interrogated (for weeks in solitary confinement with no outside contact or even a lawyer) for an alleged crime in another country. Another country they were deported to, which mean that was the plan the entire time - that also happened. The UK police spending millions of pounds on a mere bail jumping case while pressuring Sweden not to drop charges against Assange - yes, that also happened.
Finally, Assange has long offered to return to Sweden voluntarily if the country promised they wouldn't hand Assange over to the United States. A promise that could easily be made, given the fact that Sweden is a signatory to the UN Convention Against Torture, which forbids extraditing prisoners to regimes that practice torture. Regimes like the United States.
So, in summary, Assange was just proven to be right all this time, and his haters should eat shit for throwing journalists under the bus to support criminal leaders and politicians.
One day, I'll find out who & where you are - You'll be "attended to" shortly AFTER that.
APK
P.S.=> You disgusting pussy... apk
The rest of the sentence was "I won't crack it since that's illegal" so the government deleted it and left it as is so the jury will assume the worst.
They weren't interested due to the fact that he was holed up in the Embassy of Ecuador. Also in the past 7 years there's been a whole lot of turnover at the Department of Justice. Given that Ecuador doesn't have any interest in the guy anymore...
The people saying they weren't interested before quite likely aren't the same prosecutors who ARE interesting in the case.
A lack of prosecutors interest in a case doesn't make the crime go away. Of course the time for a prosecutor to bring a case to court isn't limitless either for most crimes.
That'll be up for a court in the UK to decide if the extradition request is ridiculous or not.
Isn't part of the point of prosecuting crimes to deter others from committing the same crimes?
I think this case comes down to what counts as a whistleblower. Chelsea Manning was found not to be a whisleblower, but guilty of espionage. If anything I'd say Manning was guilty of being a useful tool for Assange. If Assange was a Russian FSB agent(for example, not implying anything about Russian involvment here), we'd call him a spymaster, not a whisteblower. There wasn't even any directed goal towards what was dumped by Manning other than, WHISTEBLOWING!
That's what makes this case so much different than Ed Snowden's case. Snowden used restraint in what he disclosed, had clear goals as to what was to be disclosed and why. Also, Snowden was smart enough to get the hell out of Dodge.
Maybe he wasn't worried about jail time but his life. Very influential people "joked" about "droning" him. Maybe he is paranoid but part of his information release was explicitly about the US droning non combatant civilians and lying about it.
There are only two genders.
Genitals matter and so does biology.
Demanding that people deny reality is Fascism and a whole new level of nuts.
You have really, really funny ideas about how much folks at the US Attorneys Office make: https://www.justice.gov/usao/career-center/salary-information/administratively-determined-pay-plan-charts. There are IT geeks making more than USAO lawyers. You don't become a prosecutor for the pay, you do it for padding the resume, or you actually have a genuine interest in seeing justice being served.
As a private individual its not impossible at all to come up with a far better qualified legal team than what the comes out of the US Attorneys office. Especially for a high profile case like Julian Assange's. You'll have lawyers climbing all over themselves to represent you pro-bono.
For certain the legal system in the US is not faultless. Never remotely claimed it was. However its not the rubber stamp legal system that you seem to think it is either. I generally like to believe that judges do exercise independence from the the executive branch. There is a reason why the US Supreme Court is appointed for life, so its not vulnerable to the whims of the current executive and legislator.
Is it perfect, not at all. If our legal system was perfect, we wouldn't need judges or juries.
Personally, I hope he ends up back on the street, to be the windbag he's entitled to be, after he's had his day in court.
Which influential people do you refer to? Are any of them in the chain of command to order such an attack?
Sometimes a dark joke is just that, a joke.
Assange offered to help Manning in his computer intrusions. Thus the conspiracy charge. He then tried to crack a password, which is another, separate charge.
A person who planned to steal a car with another person, and then tried to steal that car, is a criminal even if the prosecutor can not prove the theft was successful.
This whole story is bad journalism by Vice to muddy the waters and make the public think the US Government's case is baseless. Remember Vice is another political flavor of Brietbart.
So, in summary, Assange was just proven to be right all this time
Wow, that is so stupid I'm not even gonna explain it. But for the record, "Yer rong."
since the proper security response is to accept the fact that all his credentials are public domain and act accordingly.
;)
Just my 2 cents
Assange was worried about being extradited to Sweden, because Sweden is apparently more willing to extradite to the US. Since the US is making its request to Britain, not Sweden, it might have gone with more innocuous charges than it would have otherwise.
There's little reason to believe that the US would limit themselves to only those charges once he was in US hands. I think there's a rule against this, but the US is often willing to flaunt those rules.
if I decide I see you as the opposite gender you identify on can I call you that?
Also gender is more fluid than folks realize, see here. Basically, Gender seems more binary than it is because doctors have been identifying intersex babies and using drugs and surgery to "fix" them.
As for higher incidences of self harm, well, I know some trans people. They've been shit on their hole lives and transitioning didn't make that better, it just made them feel more comfortable in their own skin. Imagine being a guy and everyone looks at you funny because you show up to work wearing pants. That's what their lives are like. That doesn't go away when they transition. If anything it gets worse ("Back! Back! Dude looks like a lady!"). So yeah, they're gonna have issues....
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The other AC is making statements about various facets of the legal system, and you're choosing the dumbest interpretation of his points in order to "win" the arguments.
What about Bradley Manning? The man who leaked government information a few years ago. Nobody's talking about him. I smell a conspiracy.
So you are one of those "native English speakers" too? So write English in the form of speaking language? And now you say that "correct grammar" is "dictation"? I see. So you are one of those who either are stupid or have low-to-none education because you couldn't get it through your head while learning English in school even though it is your own language. ;)
Attempting to crack it, even claiming to be attempting to crack it is actions in furtherance of the conspiracy.
There is no "-1 offended" or "-1 you don't agree with me" mod options for a reason.
The physical location of making the offer? That was inside the embassy, apparently.
Ezekiel 23:20
hillary clinton for one
Of the 13 comments currently moderated as insightful, I think yours [fourtythirteen's] is probably the highest concentration. I feel like your underlying analysis is probably similar to mine as of several days ago, and you led me to a new thought:
Why doesn't Assange use a Trumpish defense? Either "I was only joking when I suggested Manning commit a crime" or "I was just telling Manning what some other people say about how to hack passwords".
My real objective is to find comments offering a better analysis than my comment on a related poll a few days ago. I'd like to think that should be easy, especially since that was a kind of snap opinion (too weak to be regarded as a judgment), but so far...
In short summary form, I concluded that Assange is a bad journalist, stupid to the point of being dangerous, but basically innocent by "reason" of stupidity compounded by insanity. Or shoudl it be the other way round? Which came first, the insanity or the stupidity? https://slashdot.org/comments....
Freedom = (Meaningful - Coerced) Choice != (Speech | Beer^2), and sad sock puppets' bad mods avail them naught.
I see what you did there...
I was referring to Hillary Clinton however I wanted to abstain from using her specific name for a reason. Her name invokes a political "my side versus your side" argument. My point is that there are very influential people on both sides that want him to be made an example. Not an example that the general masses will pick up on like a tank flying the US flag shooting him. But one that anyone in the know would pick up on like a suicide by shot to the back of the head or a robbery where nothing was taken. If you think for a second groups like CIA, Mossad, MI6, or KGB don't do this type of stuff your ignorant and I know he had to have pissed at least one of them off.
so's ur mom.
If he is extradited, the convention is that those are the only charges the extraditing country can charge him with. Otherwise, all the additional charges need to be considered by the country he is extradited from.
doesnt make it moral.
Same here - i dont give a single fuck that the usa has laws on books to hide their illegal activities.
If you can throw the book at a non-usa civilian for breaking the law, then the USA bureaucrats should be held to same, if not higher standard.
For example, this thing called FOIA exists for a reason Mrs. Hillary Clinton.
It is illegal to spy on american people (or was). It is also illegal (and still is) to lie to Congress Mr. Clapper.
When you perpetrate a war crime Mr Gates you should be rotting away in a prison.
And this is but a few of what I believe are clear crimes perpetrated by those within the USA government.
Not one of these ass clowns was ever even charged. The political class protects their own. Anyone else - and that means you - are fucked if you ever take a stand. So take notice american public - the Political Class is sending an explicit message that if you speak out or expose them, they will fuck you into next year and beyond.
Until we have equal protection under the law, I will stand with the little guy - and this case, its Mr. Assange.
The whole series of charges stinks like fresh political dog-shit to distract, while innocent lives are destroyed.
If even a quarter of us spineless tech dweeb arm chair quarterbacks had 1/10th the balls of Assange, Manning or Snowden maybe the USA would be a different place.
Instead we continue to lose the republic, and it seems the pace it slips away is increasing.
This is the first I've heard of this BS. The records Manning passed onto wikileaks were gotten off the SIPRNet and copied onto a music DVD. Manning was in touch with a number of journalists such as Adrian Lamo regarding US malfese in the region. It was Adrian Lamo that turned Manning in. ref ref
Or are they pulling all this out of their arse just to get him over there?
I just laid out eighteen ways till Sunday how Assange was right and his haters have no idea wtf they're talking about. With citations. Which means you're like those Russiagate dead enders who would still be insisting Trump was a Putin Puppet if Trump had ICMB's in the air on their way to Moscow.
For the sake of our species, please don't breed.
Good written diarrhea AC.
That doesn't make sense and is full of dozens of precedented edge cases.
If you send an email to someone at "saudimail" insulting Mohammed your crime has just occurred on Saudi controlled servers; Should you be shipped to Saudi Arabia for your punishment of breaking Sharia law?
Assange was not in/on US soil when the crime occurred.
What if you post a message online to a company that has servers located worldwide, are you saying because it's online the jurisdiction for the crime should be wherever the servers ("the crime") happens along the way? It is illegal to deny the holocaust in Germany. Are you saying if you deny it on social media and it hits a German server along the way, your crime is under Germany's jurisdiction even though you were not physically present in Germany? We should ship you there for your prison sentence?
I think Assange is a piece of shit and I don't like the guy. But I also don't agree that any country should be able to extradite people for "crimes" committed online without that person ever having even visited that country. When other countries get more power than the US, are you saying we should just start shipping people over to the Middle East and China to face justice for "crimes / things they said wrongly" online despite never having even been to those countries? The USA is not the world police.
'low-to-none education'
lol
Sums up both of you.
I'm so sick of the idiots posting all this 9-11 truther bovine excrement that I generally tune it out. Somehow over all the years I actually succeeded in tuning out this one sliver of foolishness and was unaware of any cut beam insanity. Your post peaked my interest a bit and I followed the link to a site I was not aware of that had the de-gunking [intentional word distortion] done quite nicely.
I stopped trying to straighten these jackasses out years ago when I realized they fell into three basic categories:
[1] Evil rat bastards who know full-well that 9-11 really happened as generally accepted but who simply take a sicko sense of pleasure from getting in peoples' faces and boldly denying reality. These people are psychos who just get a kick from provoking people and there's no benefit in trying to convince them of the truth since they already know the truth but pretend not to as a manipulative act.
[2] Actual idiots who see a big airliner and mentally think of it as a massive metal machine, who see anything going over a hundred miles per hour as "really fast" but lack the ability to appreciate the effects of any speed over that of a fast car, and who do not understand potential energy and its role in progressive collapse nor the difference between plasticity and "melting". When these people see no big plane parts at the crash sites, they cannot understand and are easily convinced there was no airliner. Went they see the towers fall and think it looks like a controlled demolition, they fail to grasp that actually a controlled demolition looks that was because it is a progressive collapse. When they are told a fire did not get hot enough to melt steel, they assume the steel must therefore have had its full strength and rigidity. These people could eventually be persuaded --- if you want to give them a highschool education and then a four year college degree in physics or mechanical engineering first, and it's simply not worth the time and effort.
[3] Paranoid people who find the world a mysterious place and who, rather than finding out what's really happened prefer to take the quick route by assuming a conspiracy. If you try to convince these people that 9-11 (or the moon landing, or theJFK assassination, or...whatever) was not a conspiracy involving the Queen, the Freemasons, the Bilderburgs, space aliens, and an elderly Hitler living on a moonbase, you will simply be assumed to be "in on it".
I simply do not engage these idiots anymore. My hat's off to you for having the energy (and possibly the youthful innocent optimism) to think you can have a positive impact on loons. Good luck with it. Personally, I got quite a kick out if it when Buzz Aldrin finally had his fill of the insanity and punched a [moonlanding] "truther"...
Bradley Manning was the name of the MALE scumbag who violated his oath and, while in uniform and therefore subject to the UCMJ, committed treason. He should have been given a firing squad, but Obama coddled him and allowed him to pretend to be a girl and change his name. AFTER the event, Bradley announced that he was becoming femail and changing his name. The rest of us do not have to submit to allowing history to be re-written. This is also why I refuse to support Democrats tearing down statues of all their old racist heroes and erasing their over a century long history of evil racism - History is important.
Our sicko anti-science modern society is currently playing an Emperor's New Clothes game where all the citizens are expected to gaze upon the nekkid emperor and proclaim the majesty of his amazing wardrobe, or in this case clap like trained seals and pretend that Manning has transformed, like some giant butterfly in a coccoon, into a woman - but sane people stick with science and note that Bradley's DNA is still MALE and no amount of surgical mangling and chemical abuse can change that. Legally, Manning can change his name to Chelsey. Manning has no right whatsoever to require the entire society to join in one giant mental illness game and in unison pretend that HE is now a SHE. Anybody not in government or at a liberal arts school and with at least the IQ of a chipmunk knows that a HE is not a SHE no matter how many other people insist on joining the group delusion. As the child in the old story points out, it only takes ONE honest person to point at the fallacy, and the illusion is broken.
An actor can spend time studying how women behave, then dress and live as a woman for a time in preparation for a role (perhaps to play a woman, or a transvestite, or a transexual, etc) but none of that makes him a woman.
Ever hear of the movie "Victor Victoria"? Julie Andrews dressed and acted as a man. NOBODY now claims Julie Andrews IS a man.
All the pretend stuff in the world does not change a persons sex (or gender, which is a term only applied to humans relatively recently). Even hosmones and surgery cannot do it. In the aftermath of a major disaster in which human remains must be identified by DNA testing, any "trans man" or "trans woman" will be proven BY SCIENCE to be the sex he/she was born as, and there is NO SCIENCE THAT WILL IDENTIFY THE REMAINS OF A ZE, ZSE, ZER, ZORG, ZEVO, or any other full-of-ZIFF mental case.
This is the planet Earth, where humans are available in two flavors: Male and Female. Any hungry space aliens who desire them with other decorations may find something to delight the palette, but it will still be MALE or FEMALE, albeit perhaps with frosting and sprinkles and a huge pile of nuts.
It requires me to embrace a lie. It requires that I surrender my honesty and participate in a dishonorable deceit, and one that I further believe is damaging not only to the society and culture but even directly to Mr Manning himself. Participating in this nonesense would require me to destroy a part of myself and become disfunctional too.
I no more consent to participating in HIS delusion and helping him in his self destruction than I would agree to participate in the destruction of an unfortunate young woman who, despite being dangerously thin, insists that she is fat and refuses to eat. I would never cheerfully agree with such a disturbed young lady and encourage her to embrace her illusion of fatness and starve herself into the grave. It would be mys duty as a civilized human being to tell her that her perception of herself is in disagreement with reality and to help her come to grips with reality if she asked for the help.
No civilized human being encourages another human being to remain or become futher mentally ill. Certainly one cannot participate in such a thing and keep any sense of honesty or honor.
There's no such thing as "cis male" or "cis female"; there's just male and female. In this modern era of leftists pushing their Orwellian Newspeak where they insist that using what they think of as a "wrong" pronoun for one of the 50+ genders they imagine exist is some sort of hate crime, they have come up with new wrong pronouns and insist on applying them to normal people and demand that normal people apply them to themselves as well.
Delusional people are never happy until they force everybody else to enter their fantasy worlds.
Orwell's 1984: The right read it as a cautionary tale, the left read it as an inspirational one.
Q: Why did Trump's audience at that rally laugh so loudly? Shouldn't they have been mystified by what he was saying?
A: It was already well known by that time that (1) she had a private server on which she was doing government work and through which classified data was passed, (2) the server had been hacked, (30 The server was being legaly sought by congress and the courts, (4) she had wiped the server and pysically destroyed the devices she had used to communicate with it. Everybody at that rally knew that the server was no longer available but that Putin probably had Hillary's work product (therefore no further damage could be done) and that the only way the American people might get their property (Hillary's work product) back was by getting it from Putin.
The ONLY way Trump could have been calling on Putin to hack Hillary's server/e-mail is if Putin has a Time Machine!
Q: How do we know Putin does not have a Time Machine?
A: This one's really easy - Putin (a former KGB guy) has said that he thinks the fall of the Soviet Union is the greatest calamity in history. If Putin had a Time Machine, he'd have used it already to stop the worst error in history (from his point of view) and the West would now be under the thumb of a triumphant Soviet Union in which, perhaps, Ronal Reagan and Margaret Thatcher were never even born - we would not be having this dialog because the internet would never have been created by DARPA.
QED
The alleged attempt to crack a password was to protect the identity of their source. Manning already had access. This is even admitted in the affidavit (https://www.courtlistener.com/recap/gov.uscourts.vaed.384245/gov.uscourts.vaed.384245.2.0_1.pdf)
7. Cracking the password would have allowed Manning to log onto the computers
under a username that did not belong to her. Such a deceptive measure would have made it more
difficult for investigators to determine the source of the illegal disclosures. While it remains
unknown whether Manning and Assange were successful in cracking the password, a follow-up
message from Assange to Manning on March 10, 2010, reflects that Assange was actively trying
to crack the password pursuant to their agreement.
if you don't have any evidence you just manufacture them. Seriously, how hard is that with all the computer exploits available and unlimited funding?
I mean look, here in logs it clearly says that guy accessed this and wrote this and that in chat.
If simply the offer is enough to be considered part of a conspiracy and if they insist that it isn't necessary for an action to be successful, then trumps' two "defences" for collusion and corruption are fucked, and so is he.
You whine about being encouraged to help someone live a lie but you happily post an entire screed of lies. There is no mental illness except in your idiotically non-sapient insistence on an unrealistic binary determination of gender. Testosterone is generally considered an indicator, another poster whined about how a trans competing now as a woman still has a lot more testosterone than they would have as a woman, except that there are women with high levels and men with low levels of it.
You want to be coddled in the lie you were told when young, and to promote people encouraging you to retain your mentally ill delusion, you hilariously demand that correcting your delusion is enforcing a continuing delusion on others who YOU incorrectly assume are mentally ill...
Mods: please read this in greater detail before writing it off as a troll. The subject line and some of the story I'm going to be about relay may sound a bit ridiculous, but it's dead serious. My screeds may be lengthy but I have a pretty good track recorded here (I'm not certain I've ever been modded troll, except for insufficient praise of Elon Musk.)
______________________
Hmm... well, I guess it's story time. If this all sounds overly detailed and prurient, well, I can't really make my point without it. This is a really important point I'm going to try to make with very far-reaching ramifications (including but not limited to the Linux kernel. I wish I were joking).
A few years back I spent the night with a female to male transsexual. Post-hormone, pre op. She had only been on testosterone for something like 6 months, but she could pass as a guy rather well. (She actually had a job that brought her in contact with state politicians and she joked about how she should start a relationship with one of them for blackmail purposes.)
I admittedly had been going through a drought for the past few months, but really more than anything else I was curious about my own desires and psychology on the matter. I've always been attracted to a pretty wide variety of women, but not men. I could never imagine myself with a pre-op male-to-female transsexual and probably not a post-op, either. (I wonder if I'm not the opposite from most guys in this regard, as the "chicks with dicks" genre seems way more popular.... there's weirdly large number of guys who like to go on and on about how female genitals aren't actually attractive to them.)
Anyway, female to male didn't seem like an instant turnoff for me. Well, depends on how "male" the male was. She still had her breasts and everything else, but I was conflicted. But curiousity won out. In the end, it turned out it was only the hair that bothered me. The voice and mannerisms didn't bother me at all; it just registered as a tomboy-ish female. Her clit was still a clit to me, even though it was slightly bigger than my thumb (I'm not joking, even by FTM standards she was big. I think she said that as a teenager she had some suspicions she was actually intersex to some degree.) She still struck me in every way as female except for the hair. She had shaved her beard for me, that was very sweet of her, but she didn't go for a full body wax. That part did feel a bit male. Why is maleness sexually repulsive to so many guys, I wondered. But then things moved along and she felt and and smelled and responded in a familiarly feminine way, and I relaxed.
So why am I saying "she" right now? Well, if she were here and she asked me to, I'd say "he", sure. That's no big deal. Just as a favor from one human being to another.
But if I do find myself telling this story again at some point in my life and I'm rattling off all the sordid little details. at no point will I be hearing myself say "his vagina" . Because I didn't have my fingers in his vagina. I had my fingers in her vagina. Am I a participant in this story at all? If someone asks me if I've ever had sex with a man... am I allowed to say no?
Some people do seem to want to tell me that she's the only one who has the right to perceive and define the femininity and masculinity of herself in that moment. Well, to the degree that these abstract or "constructed" concepts are real (and yes, of course I'd agree that there is an abstract and subjective part to gender beyond biological sex), I would say no one person owns them. These things don't flow in one direction. It's not something that is dictated; it is something that is felt, something that resonates. And while you can force yourself to overlook one thing or another (like I managed to overlook her body hair, which again in that moment was the only thing about her that struck me as male), you can't change your innate perception any more than you can wake up one day decide that you're going to see that the sky
The physical location of the computer system he was offering to help breach.
If you send an email to someone at "saudimail" insulting Mohammed your crime has just occurred on Saudi controlled servers; Should you be shipped to Saudi Arabia for your punishment of breaking Sharia law?
Extradition isn't an automatic thing. Just because you broke Saudi law does not mean you must be sent to Saudi Arabia.
Assange was not in/on US soil when the crime occurred.
Doesn't matter. The computer system he offered to help breach was. (Assuming the government actually has the evidence to back this up)
Let's say I hack into your bank from another country and steal all your money. You'd probably like me to be charged with a crime. Under your theory of jurisdiction, I can't. My country has no standing to prosecute - the bank's computer wasn't in it, and my illegal access was gained in your country. You claim I can't be extradited because I wasn't on your country's soil.
What if you post a message online to a company that has servers located worldwide, are you saying because it's online the jurisdiction for the crime should be wherever the servers ("the crime") happens along the way?
That's generally how it works, but laws are applied by people, not mindless automatons.
It is illegal to deny the holocaust in Germany. Are you saying if you deny it on social media and it hits a German server along the way, your crime is under Germany's jurisdiction even though you were not physically present in Germany?
"Along the way" probably isn't going to be sufficient for jurisdiction. If the server was hosted in Germany, you could be charged in Germany. Whether or not you would be extradited to Germany is a different matter. Because extradition isn't an automatic thing.
But I also don't agree that any country should be able to extradite people for "crimes" committed online without that person ever having even visited that country.
Great, I'll be along shortly to empty your bank account.
Which is absolutely ridiculous if that help actually didn't happen. But then again, the US has been kidnapping people for all sort of things, so... I guess imperialism is still alive and kicking!
Ezekiel 23:20
1. There was no lie in my post. You claimed there was, but then never pointed to one.
2. "gender" used to only be applied to WORDS in languages like German. Living creatures were categorized by sex. The artificial application of the word gender to human beings is a political act. You claim it is idiotic to insist on a "binary determination of gender" - but that's a load of crap. Humans come in two sexes: male and female. There are a tiny number of humans born every year with various birth defects, like ambiguous genitalia, hermaphrotitism, etc but these are all classed as biological abnormalities, they are not other sexes/genders.
3. I have no desire to be coddled, I simply insist on living in the real world, rather than in a gender studies class in a college. The people who want to be coddled are the disfunctional who refuse to face reality and instead demand that everybody else join them in la la land.
It's probably hard going through life confused about reality, but your confusion does not make normal functional people delusional. The people who are delusional are easily identified with a simple scientific test: take off your clothes and stand before a full length mirror, and see if you were born with a penis or a vagina. If you have a penis, you're a male. If you have a vagina, you're a female. If you think you have neigher or both, see a doctor for either a physical problem or a mental problem.
This is shifting my understanding of "conspiracy". I'm not second-guessing whether there was a conspiracy here, but a single interaction seems like weak proof if so. Does this translate into other areas where a single act entwines you in the whole undertaking?
Which is absolutely ridiculous if that help actually didn't happen.
The crime is agreeing to help. So it doesn't matter if the help actually happened or not.
If I agree to help you rob a bank, I've committed a crime. Even if I don't show up on robbery day.