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MacMafia
morex writes " Check
this out it is a link to a funny Macintosh hater page..
Hell they even run Red Hat:) and have the logo posted all
over the page... " Interesting form of anti-advocacy.
More clever than most.
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First post BTW
Clever? Pathetic. What's so clever about retouching Bill Gates' face onto a shot from Men In Black? About the only serious charge they make about Apple is that they are "upgrading and leaving behind" their old computers by introducing new faster models. Stupid. I suppose Intel and AMD are just as guilty, or should it be illegal to ship faster chips?
There's nothing clever about mindless mac-bashing, no matter how much effort you put into your graphics. Another mindless idiot, who puts style over substance. Take your best shot at the Mac, but do it with REAL content, not flashy advertising-style images, or you're just as bad as BillG.
Apple is more hype than reality I can't believe they made it into 1999 with such a piece of s*software as MacOS 8.x. No wonder they were about to die.
.plan file where he writes about his Quake porting to mac os..
The following is from John Carmac's
(finger johnc@idsoftware.com)
The low level operating systems SUCKS SO BAD it is hard to believe.
The first order problem is lack of memory management / protection.
It took me a while to figure out that the zen of mac development is
"be at peace while rebooting". I rebooted my mac system more times
the first weekend than I have rebooted all the WinNT systems I
have ever owned. True, it has gotten better now that I know my
way around a bit more, and the codebase is fully stable, but there
is just no excuse for an operating system in this day and age to
act like it doesn't have access to memory protection.
The first thing that bit me was the static memory allocation for
the program. Modern operating systems just figure out how much
memory you need, but because the mac was originally dsigned for
systems without memory management, significant things have to be
laid out ahead of time.
Porting a win32 game to the mac will probably involve more work
dealing with memory than any other aspect. Graphics, sound, and
networking have reasonable analogues, but you just can't rely
on being able to malloc() whatever you want on the mac.
Sure, game developers can manage their own memory, but an operating
system that has proper virtual memory will let you develop
a lot faster.
The lack of memory protection is the worst aspect of mac development.
You can just merrily write all over other programs, the development
environment, and the operating system from any application.
I remember that. From dos 3.3 in 1990.
Guard pages will help catch simple overruns, but it won't do anything
for all sorts of other problems.
The second order problem is lack of preemptive multitasking.
The general responsiveness while working with multiple apps
is significantly worse than windows, and you often run into
completely modal dialogs that don't let you do anything else at all.
A third order problem is that a lot of the interfaces are fairly
clunky.
There are still many aspects of the mac that clearly show design
decisions based on a 128k 68000 based machine. Wintel has grown
a lot more than the mac platform did. It may have been because the
intel architecture didn't evolve gracefully and that forced the
software to reevaluate itself more fully, or it may just be that
microsoft pushed harder.
Carbon sanitizes the worst of the crap, but it doesn't turn it
into anything particularly good looking.
MacOS X nails all these problems, but thats still a ways away.
I did figure one thing out -- I was always a little curious why
the early BeOS advocates were so enthusiastic. Coming from a
NEXTSTEP background, BeOS looked to me like a fairly interesting
little system, but nothing special. To a mac developer, it must
have looked like the promised land...
it sucks that you needed to buy Windows 95 to run Quake II.
I agree because I don't see reasons why bashing is interesting news.
I guess I don't get it. I guess I'm too old. I guess what they're trying to do is too high-brow for me to comprehend.
Why did they go through all that trouble to make a site like that, pay for a domain name, design all the graphics, write all the text....basically just to piss people off. And if it is to just piss people off....then what is the end result? What are they trying to accomplish? Are they just trying to be funny? They're failing...but as I said before, I guess it's over my head.
If you REALLY want to just piss people off, why not go after the Jews or Blacks or Gays or something like that! I bet your site would REALLY get some traffic then!
Attacking Apple and Macs has been going on for years....why not try something new? Hell, if you really really really want to piss people off, attack Linux!
But you wouldn't DARE do that!
MacOS sucks in terms of low level operation, but does a grandmother sitting at home reading email from her grandchildren really CARE that the Mac doesn't have protected memory? She just surfs the web...and no, the Mac just doesn't crash for no reason because of no protected memory, if you doing weird stuff it will crash...sure.
Besides, they're fixing it. Yes, 15 years later....but hell, better late than never. Besides, you don't use it, so what the fuck do you care?
The fact that this site is blatantly funded by M$ (anybody else notice the banner ads?) is not funny. In fact, it casts serious doubts as to their motivations in putting up the site in the first place. Do you see Apple buying banner space in the http://www.windowssucks.com site? I think not. Bashing Apple for fun is one thing (But Micro$oft is more fun to bash because it's such an easy target). But getting paid to bash Apple strikes me as unethical and ugly.
Isn't is a little easy to aim at Apple?
Why not a funny site aimed at Linux? Guess they don't find that funny.
Yes, they're taking advertisement from M$ because they're afraid of the iMac selling so well. I told them before they placed the website up that they shouldn't deal with the M$ banner ads, but they said they were getting too much from them and couldn't afford not to place the site up without it.
And yes, they do have an anti-Linux site planned too. Stay tuned for that.
But you wouldn't DARE do that!
I disagree. I'd bet good money that there will be at least one anti-linux site up by the end of the year (has anybody registered linuxsucks.com yet?) Most likely funded in some way, shape or form by our friends in Redmond... though probably not as blatantly Micro$oft sponsored as this anti-Mac site is. Hmm... a banner ad pointing to microsoft.com... what a coincidence!
Pretty blatent.
I wonder is there any linux hater page made by the it will be interesting to see one mentioned on slashdot.
Yes, the grandmother at home DOES care that the Mac doesn't have protected memory. Because it causes multiple system crashes which causes her to lose that precious email.
Of course I don't use it. Why should I use it if it sucks? I am looking forward getting a Mac when the MacOS X is released.
Man oh man, what passes for humor these days.
This site is nothing but a bunch of MSDronez with little if nothing original to add to the OS debate. They seem to enjoy their little "we're gangsters" motif, but it adds nothing to the site. There's plenty to shoot at with the MacOS, but they're too busy pathetically polishing their imaginary penis replacements to get off a decent shot.
Hey, I've used MacOS since '84. I loved it then, but when you know a little more about computer systems, you know: "I've gotta move out of the MacOS ghetto!"
Yeah... Win9x sucks too. In terms of user interface, the macintosh is great. It needs to be brought up to date with those cool things such as protected memeory space and true multi threading. This will be OSX. I've played with the OSX server pre realease, and let me tell you it is damn impressive. It's built on a unix base, so you can install the majority of unix software with minimal porting efforts. If you can get source code, you can run most unix stuff. In addition, the finder has been moved to user space. Don't like the MacOS inteface? Fine, you can run XFree86 with your favorite window manager instead. Throw this on top of the PowerPC chip, which is a great chip, and you're ready to rock and roll..
| BIOS problems (ever try to get a 10 gig hard
| disk running on Linux???
*Should* I have had a problem getting a 10 gig drive working in Linux on an Intel box? Got a 10 and a 3.3 in my Intel box and they work fine.
---Rick T (who left his cookie on the Alpha...)
I have a 12 gig in a dual boot machine, no problems at all.
The Redhat logos on their pages were meant to confuse.
/. are worth my time. This was definitely not.
I wonder if Microsoft asked its employees to create web pages which are merely Microsoft mouthpieces yet appear to be posted by Linux developers. Supposedly they made similar requests in the past in regards to newsgroup postings.
How many sites will pop up now using Linux logos to confuse viewers as this one does?
If you check their links page you will see their true colors shining through.
Perhaps you would like to jump to their link at http://www.brokenwindows.net?
Most of the articles on
Thanks Slashdot for steering me toward these Microsoft Asskissing Mental Defectives who are pretending to be "Mac hating" jokers.
There were as many windows logos as RedHat logos, more if you count pics of Bill Gates as on of the Men in Black.
Macs run Linux. People need to get over the dumbass Intel/Motorola wars and learn to flame proprietary software instead.
I try not to use crude colloquialisms, but in this case it's all too appropriate: MacMafia blows chunks!
/. should send these guys some threads from the user postings when the OS flame wars get hot around here. Sometimes the vitriolic (and completely misguided) posts of Mac bigots make me roll in abandon; they just *really*don't*know* what they're talking about. To get an idea of the humorous potential, check out the site of some buds o'mine, slac research
OK, if the MacOS were a barn (It's a big target) there would be unprotected memory hanging out the door, processes riding roughshod over the other beasts, one-button mice squeaking in and out the holes in the walls... you get the idea: a mess.
These guys are more interested in polishing their pretend guns and (as someone else noted) doing a terrible job hacking up pictures to get any real painful digs into a company as boneheaded as Apple, or even make me smile/wince in recognition of the Little OS that Couldn't which I've used for over 15 years. I would have *never* let a pic as sloppy as that Gates/MIB trash leave my bootstation (no, it's not a workstation, I'm spending much more time rebooting...;-)
But much more fertile fields than the multiple targets of the OS' weakness and Apple's blundering are available. The beautiful ignorance of my (fellow) Mac users when they catch on that you're making fun of macs is truly a sidesplitting experience. But these guys don't activly recruit I'mAc-ornball comments! They just say for people who don't like the site to leave.
So what do the cognoscienti of the MacOS users do? FTP and install LinuxPPC, like me. Mac OS X won't be available for my 7600, so I'm leaving the MacOS ghetto today. What is the platform of choice of the MacMafia? Windoze 98!!!!!!! These guys taking any shots at other platforms is akin to a nazi citizen from 30's Deutchland tsk-tsking the Chinese government for stomping on their citizens. If these guys were using an OS suited for anything but mind-numbing carnage (impressive, addictive carnage I must admit...) I'd have no reason to slam. As it is, their whole site is my vote for
>Yes, they're taking advertisement from M$ because they're afraid of the iMac selling so well.
Man, what a pathetic excuse to bash on a platform just because they are doing well. If this was true then everyone should be bashing on Microsoft and Intel JUST BECAUSE they have currently have a large market share instead of gripping about legimate 'faults' in the platform. Macs, Linux and Window's OS have their advantages and disadvantages...
I've used a Mac since it was introduced in '84 and also worked on Windows OS since 3.1. WAY WAY back when I worked in a lab helping out people who have never worked on a computer or word processor before, I found that it doesn't really matter what platform you use as long as it helps with getting your work done without too much *distractions*.
The OSes have made large strides in improvements and stability. My preferred platform is the Mac OS (8.5.1). This version has not crashed since the first day I installed it. Linux has made great strides too in providing greater user friendliness in the GUI via KDE and Gnome.
Its my own personal belief that if you don't have anything good to say about another platform then you certainly don't know enough about it to comment about that platform. No platform is perfect! Its through competition that we can strive to improve the 'experience'. Imagine if only (pick your most disliked platform here) as the only OS offered.
Doc
Just keeping the flame alive...
Battle Girl is available ONLY for MacOS. And it rocks!
why is there so much hatred and jealousy in the world?
Hey, don't lie like that! Everybody knows that NT never crash. If what you're saying really is true, then it must have been some hardware problems.
Doesn't seem like they're all redhat happy:
[jclarke@talvez jclarke]$ telnet www.dafirm.com 80
Trying 208.8.213.29...
Connected to www.dafirm.com.
Escape character is '^]'.
HEAD / HTTP/1.1
Host: www.dafirm.com
HTTP/1.1 200 OK
Server: Microsoft-IIS/4.0
Content-Location: http://www.dafirm.com/index.htm
Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:29:16 GMT
Content-Type: text/html
Accept-Ranges: bytes
Last-Modified: Sat, 31 Oct 1998 18:56:26 GMT
ETag: "6072602905be1:396dc"
Content-Length: 1108
Those 2 idiots should put their lips nice and tight on BillG's ass, and hope he leaves them a nickel for their effort.
A couple of idiots who think that microshaft has actually made the world better by releasing such shit products to the world... fuck that.
I agree that there is no contents in the site.
I didn't see anything funny there, neither.
Maybe because I visited there site with Lynx, there
I guess you can see something funny hidden there if you use
MicroShit Internet Explorer???
I don't think so. But they are still using that crappy Mac"OS" 8 which is (by your own words) designed for the above hardware. sigh
Will I try to run NetBSD on my Amiga with 1MB RAM and no harddrive? Probably not.
And you call that "...is really good"???
Last time I crashed my system was about 8 months ago when I played with a 2.0.x Linux kernel compiled with egcs which produced bad code and panic'ed executing a demo program which used about 600 threads.
Oh well, you might settle for a Windoze installation.
While looking at the page source with netscrape, I noticed this little gem: meta name="GENERATOR" content="Microsoft FrontPage 3.0". If they are so Linux happy why do they use FrontPage? To make matters worse, not only do they use FrontPage for the web design but they use the FrontPage applets like fphover!
While I do not necessarily agree with their design/delivery methods, I do agree that Crapintosh's blow chunks. The interface is counter-intuitive, they use propreitary hardware whenever possible and the system is very unstable. (And yes I have used a Crapple. My first computer was unfortunately a Crapintosh. I am also forced to use Crapples occasionally at my job.)
Mac OS X *will* run on your 7600. The current (Golden Master) builds of OS X Server installer has an "Unsupported Install" option that installs onto any PCI PowerMac, with the caveat that you will not get any Apple support. Gee, that's a pity.
Perhaps, one should get a clue about the current state of OS X before commenting on it.
Check out the URL when you hit the guest book. Classic Front Page Extension generated URL. They also use M$ incredibly great form filters from Front Page too. Those guys are really incredible web developers!
At whining that is. This topic is all the information anyone needs if they ever mistakenly thought that Mac zealots had ever grown up and gotten a sense of humor.
And as to the conspiracy theorists out there who think that they're sneakily pretending to be a Linux site, wake up and get a clue, will ya? Right above the RedHat logo is a WinZip icon. WinZip, ya know, for WINDOWS?? Not to mention the other Windows logos scattered around the site.
And to the idiots who think that they must hate Linux because they're using IIS and FrontPage, you sound like MacZealots, thinking that people are only allowed to like one OS and hate alll others. Pretty mature attitude, no really.
Cheers,
ZicoKnows@hotmail.com
"Linux is only free if your time has no value" -- JWZ, mozilla.org
Carmac's argument is that the fact that MacOS never switched to memory protection/preemtive multitasking, considering that Mac hardware has been capable of it FOR OVER A DECADE, is pathetic.
(the MacII and all newer models include a MMU or can use one if one is installed)
Which I agree with wholeheartedly. The same is also true, though, of the Amiga and Windows 3.1/95.
:)
Win 3.1/386 supports the protected mode, Petzold (the Win programmer's bible) details it already. Win95 (at least the 32bit part) does support it, too.
:-)
I don't know of Amiga, my last experience was with AmigaOS 2.0
There are no computer users more pitiful or stupid
than Mac bashing Microsofties; this site only
reinforces that fact.
Grow up and/or put down the crack, CmdrTaco.
~Anonymous for fear of account deletion.
Battlegirl ROCKS! and here i thought i was the only person who'd ever heard of it. :)
No, you don't get it! If these people didn't have their little home-appliance flame war to expend all their loose hatred on and numb their lack of self-worth, they'd be using all that unhealthy energy to do something MUCH WORSE. Like join the KKK or admin godhatesfags.com or join the United States Senate.
Let them have their fun.
Maybe this site should be called "Slashdot: Biased News for Linux Users Who Think Like Me (CmdrTaco)"
I'd understand putting something like this in one of those quickie updates, but an entire headline for this? Then it turns out this site seems more pro-windows than pro-linux. they probably have a the Redhat thing there because it's becoming popular now. The server is running NT, and they made the pages using Front Page.
But anyway, posting a news item about an OS bashing site? Why? There are millions of them? And why didn't you even fully evaluate the site before believing it's Linux vs MacOS, when it's seems to me it's just another typical Mac bashing site. Why do you have such a grudge against Apple? Do you understand anything about business? "Oh my, they have a tiny fraction of the market, but why don't they make their OS open source and do everything I want!?!?!?" The only benefit for them to allow cloning and to open source their OS right now is for the OS to be able to be maintained after the company fails, which it would if it did this, since it makea a majority of it's money off of hardware sales.
Apple is no where near a monopoly, and you don't have to touch one if you don't want to.
I'm in no way saying Apple is perfect, I am just curious as to why are you posting such a ridiculous site for news?
I never thought about it that way.
Yes, let them have their little web sites and the like. Keeps them out of trouble and we get to keep an eye on them.
You see this a lot. The "Man" starts getting nervous when something else starts to catch on.
So the "Man" must be shitting himself about Linux if a little consumer computer can stike fear like this into him.
Power to the People!!!! Unite!
They are running ISS 4.0 BTW. :)
I thought that the mac vs. windows agrument was passe and then these guys...
"More clever than most"? Bullshit. These guy have obviously been masturbating each other too long to realize this topic has already been debated. I guess it has taken them this long to gather up enough brain power between them to come up with such an "original" idea. Fuck you.
Slashdot may have taken a step backward by even mentioning this shit...
...but it only comes into play when there is something funny to laugh at.
I mean, these idiots don't even come up with a good concept to bash the Mac. The Mafia? Wow, that's original. And the way they write it they must think they're so clever...but they're really just sad. It's worse than a Saturday Night Live sketch.
My 5 year old could bash the Mac better then they could, and make it funny too.
I'm just sorry that I wasted my time looking at the site...and even more time writing this post!
..you never bought a Microsoft product in your life? Bullshit.
I am currently a Macintosh user but I've been a PC person for most of my computing life. I am also a longtime Slashdot reader interested in LinuxPPC. When LinuxPPC 5.0 arrives with USB support I will happily partition the HD of my new iMac and give it a go. But after Rob's apparent endorsement of this tired Mac bashing site...Well, I'm losing faith in telling other people that they should visit Slashdot. Bashing other OSs doesn't make Linux look better by default. Aren't platform wars a little childish, Rob? If you desire people to take a look at Linux, then demonstrate how good Linux is. Don't tell them how lousy their current OS is, because they'll only resent it. People dislike negative political ads, and they won't like this crap much better.
I see on Ultra-United's web site that they are working on a Windows95 version. I think Linux is a much better deal - their TripTronic game engine shouldn't be that hard to port to Linux, and there aren't fifty zillion Linux games on the shelves.
Obviously, that guy didn't dare either. That page is full of comments saying "Linux is great". Now who needs that?
He said it, implicitly. Or he is only a lamer throwing words without sin around:
write a port of Linux that runs a GUI preemptively in 1MB of RAM with a 10MB hard drive, and i'll listen carefully to any arguments about alternative designs.
No platform can be all things to all people. For me, an artist, it breaks down like this:
*NIX:No other real choice for heavy duty stuff like scaleable networking, big ass real time graphics projects (I'm thinking primarily of Maya, Flame and VR on the SGI here) and lots more. Runs for months with out restarting. Great for do-it-your-selfers who dig the CLI and getting thier hands dirty. Requires the largest investment of time and effort to master, and god help ya if you're not careful with RM.
Win 9X/NT: Excellent for desktop 3D development. Networking lame compared to the far more robust *NIXen out there. Still, it's pretty speedy, and has many of the modern underpinnings asked of OS's these days. Also the best for games, IMO. Windows is a huge pain in the ass to maintain, and plugging in additional hardware is sheer terror.
Mac OS:For publishing efforts, such as Web site design, print, and a large portion of multimedia authoring, the Mac is the platform most designers prefer. It has the only real color solution out there, trouble shooting a chimp could handle, unmatched plug and play, and gorgeous presentation (which is enormously important to many artists). It is the indisputable Photoshop champ. Still far too slow and unstable, but an artist with NO computer skills can be shown the basics of the UI and Photoshop and be cranking out amazing work in the span of a day.
This list is far from comprehensive, but each of these platforms has it's merits and flaws. I say use the right tool for the right job.
There's no need to bust the other guy's balls just because he's not using YOUR toolset to do HIS job, OK?
From what I see all they do is say how hot the PPC G# runs well hey guys the PII and PIII envent more so are about 10 times as hot, they need liquid cooling. Next the apple hardware is lightening fast. Macos started the GUI and with out it computers would have never gained the adoption they have tody. As for .Plan Carmack is a fucking moron because if he knew how to program for the macintosh he wouldn't have problems. He originally used DOS and Win 3.11, shittier than the mac by a long run. My mac run stable as hell and doesn't crash, as long as it is configured right it works fairly well. As for MacOS X it is going to toast Linux in terms of speed and memory allocation, and GUI. As for NT come and see me when they come out of beta stage, it is not ready for prime time. Linux and Unix is great for servers but sucks for Desktop use, apple is the only one who fits. P.S without the mac you wouldn't be seeing most of the web and magizines because macintosh is the conerstone of layouts and over 65% of all web site are created on a mac.
Oh please, get over yourself.
And the computer needs to be complex for the average user why? Are you using the fact it's simple to use as a argument not to use it?
You use C? HA! I program in 0s and 1s.
likewise - I suspect it was the crappy Java that crashed my linux netscape browser (4.06) but not my mac browser or OS (8.5.1+4.08)
/.)
i figured that trying out a win9x browser on it would just inflate the hitcount mroe than these wankers deserve... and waste my time
on the whole I agree that this whole article should have been intercepted by moderators, on the grounds that it is a ".*OS sux" post.
Andrew (who is not yet 100% committed to
Basically everything in your post is false and incorrect. Mac people copying and pasting from mac propaganda web sites are worst than microdrones bashing mac users.
Memory protection not necessary for a stable system?? What a moron. Memory protection is one of two ways to get a stable system. The other way is to hope that EVERY developer of EVERY piece of software you own got EVERY memory access right. Uh-huh.
Besides that, it's totally unreasonable to assume that a developer working on a Mac is going to get all pointers right the first time. The first time he tries to write to a NULL pointer--good bye!
As for losing data, I didn't say you'd lose the whole HD. I said you could lose files--and you can. It happened to my wife just yesterday.
Maybe you should try your hand at programming and THEN say you don't need protected memory.
since most anti-advocacy sites are fucking moronic, i would have to say his assessment is correct.
that's not saying much though.
I agree that MS sucks. And I agree that WinDOS sucks. BUT, there is one way that the PC architecture and what MS has built on top of that is superior to the Mac.
Openness.
Yes, that's right. Openness. I can use the machine in ways it wasn't intended. I can install different OS's with ease. I can modify bootup behavior without being a programmer (I AM a programmer, but that's beside the point). In short, Apple made a seamless machine--seamless because it is welded shut. And I HATE that.
That's why I use Linux, but I do it on a PC.
heh heh heh
Funny stuff. Just for laughs, try a seemingly sincere "Linux Sucks" post here at good old Slashdot. Sit back and measure the good humor of the readers on these fine pages.
When the commotion begins, I'll be the one giggling in the back row.
Maybe if these guys spent less time swallowing Bills protein they could create some decent code that works on browsers without java/javascript on. Oh wait, there's no Frontpage wizzard for that.
Microsoft doesn't have ONE Y2K compilant product, maybe they will come out with a hack, and they WILL CHARGE A LOT OF MONEY to the poople for mistakes THEY made
Why you Linux-heads can't be a LITLE openminded???
OK, you like Linux, i think all of you made your point, but what about the people who ACTUALY has a life and want a computer that WORKS....
Windows is a copy, they know that, and they had NEVER make something cool by themself...
they will always be chasing Apple and coping what they have
I do agree that Crapintosh's blow chunks. The interface is counter-intuitive
Be specific. In what ways, specifically, is the Mac interface counter-intuitive?
The Mac interface, while dated in some respects, is still a year or two ahead of anything on Linux. Funny how, in an earlier post, John Carmack mentioned modal dialog boxes as a symptom of an OS that doesn't support preemptive multi-tasking . There's a REASON modal dialog boxes exist as part of the Mac OS, and I have a feeling that had Carmack (et al) done any reading (the Apple Human Interface Guidelines, for example), he'd know that modality has nothing to do with preemptive multi-tasking.
Linux caters to the other extreme, where EVERY window is modeless. This becomes a real hassle when you have, say, three documents and a few dialogs open in The Gimp, and you're switching back and forth between several apps.
Openess? Are you talking about a family of operating systems that I can't do basic typography on? I suppose I could write my PostScript code in a text editor and lp it to a PS printer. No, I'd rather fire up Illustrator on a PC or preferrably, Mac and get some real work done immediately without fussing with anything nonproductive. And don't even mention the GIMP, its not there, and its not even close.
I care more about getting things done than fooling with some silly command-line interface until my computer does what it should. I've been working with SGIs lately, so I have a bad attitude toward *UX operating systems lately.
BTW, I resoldered a few surface-mount resistors on my Mac Quadra to increase the bus and CPU speed... not bad for a computer that's "welded shut." I installed BeOS and Linux on my 7300/200, and you know what? They didn't last a day, because I can't do anything I want to with them.
You beat me to the post. Try a search for the guy on altavist. An interesting apple petition pops up. I wish I could find out how to search their email database.
Windows is a contemptible implementation of an excessively complicated but mostly sound design. MacOS is beneath contempt - they didn't even *try* to make a real kernel. Hasn't pretty much everyone else long since heard about threads and address spaces?
Sure, MacOS 10 (aka Rhapsody, a subset of OpenStep from NEXT) might be different, but I just can't bring myself to care anymore. "Step one: Buy a G3. If you already have a Power Mac and we promised it'd work, that's nice; throw it away and buy yet another disposable proprietary machine from us."
# queso www.dafirm.com
/.
208.8.213.29:80 * Windoze 95/98/NT
DaFirm MacMafia
F***g losers. These people don't belong on
unfortunately, there's nothing to flame here. MacOs 8.5 is TERRIBLY outdated : i run on it on a 9600/300, makes the hardware feel slow. Plus it's not stable. The worst part of is Apple has not committed to supporting any other machine than the G3 with macosX, which should fix many of MacOs 8.x problems. Making a $5000+ machine obsolete after less than 2 years is a feat that doesn't quite match the "user-friendly" image that Apple is marketing.
please define "everybody".
NT crashes really hard sometimes; sometimes the system is stable but apps crash constantly so a reboot is necessary i any case. And to say tha NT boots quickly and painlessly, now THAT is lying...
I care. I care a great deal because 1. I use a mac, b. because I have a number of friends who own macs and who call me whenever something goes worng with their machines. If Apple paid me for the time I have spent helping Mac users baffled by non-deterministic problems, my bank account would be significantly fatter.
I suggest that you try a true preemtive multitasking os with a friendly gui (they do exist). You will then understand what such underlying features may do for your grandmother : consistency and reliability.
"The mac doesn't crash for no reason" : we must be living on two different planets. I got my first mac in 1990. I have owned the following : SE, IICX, II CI, color classic, PB 190, PB 520, PM 5200, PM 9600/300. I have experienced the descending curve in reliablity over the years. The bottom of the curve was macos 7.5 : just dreadful. 8.5 is a little bit better, but nowhere close to the level of relaibility you expect from a modern OS.
The world would be a lot better with a giggle tag in HTML
anonymous for the sake of anonymity, well actually for the sake of Sloth buyt its pretty much the same thing
Divide and conquer it is called, and we won't fall for it.
Print.
On my mac, if I get online, go to communicator and print, it will reliably freeze my mac so hard the cursor freezes.
Nope. Not a chance
Considering OS X will run on top of Mach, it will be inherently slower than a monolithic Linux on the same hardware
QNX! www.qnx.com grab their demodisk and try it out. It's awesome.
...that too many /.er's aren't getting laid. The energy with which you guys carry on about these non-subjects would be better spent learning the social graces, perhaps leading to bedding someone.
/. being a hangout for sexual super men getting it every day with a different lover. Yeah right.
Rob, a poll idea:
I have sexual intercourse with another human:
*Three times a week or more
*Once a week
*Once a month
*Six times a year or less
*I am a virgin
*I am a Furry
*I'd rather hack the kernel
Of course, this would probably lead to another I.Q. poll fiasco, with
Did you see the site? There was pro-MS stuff all over the place. Also, where are you getting this "Windows has a mostly sound design" nonsense? Win98 design comes from slapping an object-oriented UI onto DOS. Thats not even remotely sound design, just half-assed kludging done after the fact. (of course, the MacOS has largely similar problems, being a fifteen year old proprietary OS.)
Can your 386 run Windows 98? Heck, can your early pentium bought a few years ago run win 98 productively (the fact it wil lrun doesn't mean it's worth running)? And Apple isn't forcing them to buy new G3s at gun point. They can still use OS 8, or OS 7, or OS 3, and it doesn't matter. Of course the more modern software will likely be made to run on the top, or close to top machines, but as long as you still have your hands on the old software you used before, it doesn't matter.
At least you don't have to be a 100% dyed-in-the-wool geek to use a Mac. Real people can work on Macs. I don't know any real people who do work on Linux.
OS X isn't due until this fall....this is the real OS X and not the OS X server that's due out at the end of this month.
For the original guy to state that it will be faster than Linux is just as wrong as you saying that it couldn't be faster....the damn thing isn't even out yet!
Let's look at it when it ships, ok? Just to make a blaket statement like that is a little premature...even if you're probably right.
you can use lots of os's on the mac (free, open, netBSD's, LinuxPPC, MkLinux, YellowDogLinux, MacOS, MacOSX Server (really soon))
I can modify bootup behavior without being a programmer (I AM a programmer, but that's beside the point). In short, Apple made a seamless machine--seamless because it is welded shut. And I HATE that.
You ovbiously have never herd of open firmware. The PC architecture wasn't open, untill it was clean room reverse-engeneered by Compac. If someone clean room reverse-engeneered the mac and licenced relaesed their findings, it would become open too. PC's still arn't completely open (propriatary intel slots and chipsets).
That's why I use Linux, but I do it on a PC.
Slashdot got PLAYED on this one. Better luck next time...
do you have an HP printer?
shure it will. install using the unsupported hardware install option.
Movable modal windows rock.
Mmmm... 7.5 on a Nubus PMac was quite correct. :-)
But 7.5.2 on the first 7500 was really a piece
of crap ! I sould wear a T-Shirt with :
"I Survived MacOS 7.5.2"
Now, I did not have Macs anymore, only 2 Dual PII
PCs running Linux. You have to use Linux to see
how MacOS is unstable and slow ! I will not buy
MacOS X. It seems to be an interesting OS but I'm
not interested anymore with proprietary OS and
closed hardware...
/*As for .Plan Carmack is
/*
a fucking moron because if he knew how to program for the macintosh he wouldn't have problems. */
The point is, you shouldn't need to know special programming tricks to work around a brain-damaged OS. In this day and age, there is no excuse for an OS not having proper memory management or multitasking.
/*He
originally used DOS and Win 3.11, shittier than the mac by a long run.
No. Carmack comes from the NeXTstep environment which is, SURPRISE, the core of MacOS X.
/*As for MacOS X it is going to toast Linux in terms of
speed and memory allocation, and GUI. */
NeXT was notorious for adding more cool object technology to their OS rather than fixing bugs. Hopefully, Apple has gone back over the old bug reports and cleaned this stuff up. Otherwise, MacOS X will become synonymous with "memory leak" just as NeXTstep was.
I really hope Apple finally gets it right with MacOS X. It would certainly be an improvement over the horrid DOS and VMS derived systems from Redmond.
This is all garbage... Netscape crashes once every 4 hours for me on Solaris. Protected memory does nothing for the stability of individual apps, which is what matters.
In fact, sinc ethe crashes are not as severe I'd argue that protected mem UNixes promote buggy apps since it's no big deal if they, say, try to trample over other apps.
When I use MacOS 8.1 I get about 1 crash a day. Note: This is of any kind in any app and not all crashes are fatal, in fact I'd put the number at around one in 5.
Pinky, not logged in.. MSExploder lost the cookie.. tut-tut.
So HP drivers crash the system?
I feel comfortable relying on other companies to make working software.
Mach makes Linux slow.
Mach makes HURD slow.
(They cross compile from Linux because it's 4 times faster.)
So to extrapolate:
Mach will make MacOS X slow.
I own a Mac, I use PC's, and I haven't had the opportunity to use linux (yet). Radix summed it up succintly, use what you need or what you like, and grow up (at least a little bit).
There's a nice big Microsoft "Get everything you need to evaluate Microsoft Windows NT Workstation 4.0" banner on the top of the news page on that site. Go figure.
Posted by k150:
why do we (I) like the macos -- the gui. and OS8.5.1 is really good. i haven't crashed more than 10 times a month for the past several months now, and much less some months...
and i ALWAYS know what causes teh crash. on the other hand, they replaced a library p90 i was using on campus... when i sat down in front of the NEW machine (i saw the jerky pc man swiftly replacing them yesterday) i noticed it was locked. so i got a my ballpoint pen and hit reset (ctrl-alt-del didn't do anything)
after that, i noticed on the flying ASCII that it was a PII/400... and the logon said "NT4"... okay. so i opened communicator, went to news.com, and two pages later, bam! it locked HARD on me. reset, restart, open the browser again, and same result.
let me say that this doesn't happen on any of my work or home G3's... so hahaha.
ken
The Eric Conspiracy wrote:
ever try to get a 10 gig hard disk running on Linux???
Yep, I tried that. Opened up the case, stuck the 10.5gig hard disk in, connected the cables, screwed the screws, booted a Redhat CD, told it which drive to use, and watched it format and install.
Sorry, was something supposed to go wrong?
I'm not sure what you're saying. I have Quake 2 installed on this computer, and I even play it sometimes, and I've never bought a Microsoft product in my life.
No, I've never paid a single cent for a Microsoft product in my life. I've never bought a whole computer. I've never owned Microsoft DOS, I've never licensed Microsoft Windows, nor any of their office or development software. I don't own any Microsoft hardware.
I don't see what's wrong with you, here. I have Linux on this machine, and I have Quake and Quake 2 installed.
Yeah, I did once have DOS installed on one of my computers. It was a 120 MHz Pentium, and I still have that copy of Novell DOS 7, but Quake 2 wasn't out back then.
At 10 crashes per month this guy isn't even doing very well for MacOS. I'll grant, I still crash occasionally (probably on the order of two to three times per month). But I'm the kind of psychotic user who does stupid things to his machine just to see if it'll work. I've fried far more Linux installations accidentally than I've killed MacOS installations while doing something dumb. That's the thing; MacOS may crash a lot but at least it's resilient and bounces back quickly, something which can't be said for Windoze, and even Linux doesn't have it to the same degree in my experience; crashes might be rare but they take hours, even days to recover from whereas the average MacOS crash is fixed within minutes.
And hey, even if he's getting ten crashes a month, that's far, far better than the average Windoze installation.
As for why the guy's crashing so often, it's probably because he's using Kaleidoscope or some similar extension; I love that tool myself but I can't argue with the fact that my machine became at least six times more stable (and a good deal faster) when I removed the thing.
Yes, the grandmother at home DOES care that the Mac doesn't have protected memory. Because it causes multiple system crashes which causes her to lose that precious email.
Spoken like someone who has ABSOLUTELY NO IDEA what protected memory is. That Mac won't ever cause a single crash; a poorly-programmed email app might, though. That's all protected memory does; it keeps badly-programmed apps from taking down other stuff, and while nice it is not necessary for a stable system.
I also might add that you seem to think that system crashes always cause the loss of a whole hard drive. Obviously you haven't used a Mac, which while it does crash at least can recover from a crash gracefully, which is more than I can say for the many, many Linux installations I've accidentally fried.
I don't think so. But they are still using that crappy Mac"OS" 8 which is (by your own words) designed for the above hardware.
He said no such thing. Certainly you need more RAM than that to run MacOS (hell, even Linux requires more than that nowadays). However, try running any other OS with a GUI enabled from a floppy. Yep, that can still be done with OS8.5.1 (I'm serious, it is possible).
I had high hopes, always in the mood for some good nature MacOS trash talk. (I'm sorry, it just sucks! I would prefer win98!) But this was just sorta funny in a lame way, not really really funny.
And that water reflection Java applet is SO TIRED! Get rid of that stupid thing!
What...you saw the fake Redhat logo and thought.."Gee, looky there...it /MUST/ run linux. They must be cool!"?
hmm...whois sez the site is based in WA
I have to return some videotapes...
it wacked my Netscape on Linux too...i'll bet they used that MS version of Java. Netscape never has a problem with real Java.
I have to return some videotapes...
good for about a 2 second smile. then you realise they're windoze lusers and you feel stupid for playing into their hands over the Red Hat logo.
the only anti-mac site that was ever any good was the exploding mac pagewhere they blew up an old Mac Plus. and done by real linux users at that.
...in fact, i think i still have a copy of it somewhere... those were the days, when irc terrorism still took a bit of skill ;)
j------
----- when the going gets weird, the weird turn pro -- Hunter S. Thompson
This is a new low for slashdot. More crap like this and I'll exercise my right to block banner ads..
OTOH IS a rather amusing site... but only worth a 'quickie' IMO.
Two ironic things here:
The first time I opened the page, Netscape for Linux crashed when Java initialized. kill? kill -9...
Second is I bought an Apple G3/300 today, and it did NOT crash when I opened the page.
Scott
'Crapple'?
You know, the company has been around for over 20 years. You'd think people would be able to think of a better insult than calling it 'Crapple'.
'Crapintosh' isn't terribly great, either.
Be open minded. When I want to run a web server, I'll run Linux. When Linux natively runs Photoshop, I'll do my design in it. Maybe.
I've found that most people who bash a platform extensively are typically trying to make up for their own deficiencies. The fact that this site's graphics look like they're straight out of MS Paint or maybe an early version of GIMP doesn't help matters much.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
- Jeff
Agreed. As a Mac user myself, *I* could come up for better reasons to rip on Apple.
Mismanagement. Forecasting under demand so that people had to wait months for their machines. The PowerBook 5300. Pippen. Killing OpenDoc. Killing PowerComputing. The lack of a drive bay (notice I did not say floppy drive) in the iMac. Lack of PCI slots in the current G3 minitowers. Sticking with proprietary tech' when it doesn't make sense.
...And so forth.
But for all their mistakes, Apple is doing far better now than the last 4 years or so. They'll make screwups - and as always, they'll be publicized 10x more than comparable screwups by other companies. But you have got to respect a company that has been 'going out of business' for the last 15 years, even to the point of making an art out of it.
These guys are fools, plain and simple. I also lose a bit of respect for Slashdot; Is this 'news for nerds', or 'news for Linux-using nerds'?
The saddest thing is all the people replying to this article who seem to have nothing to do but follow in their footsteps.
- Darchmare
- Axis Mutatis, http://www.axismutatis.net
- Jeff
I don't see how that RedHat logo fits in with the rest of the site. I think that's the only reason it was posted anyway.
The site was done in FrontPage, there are Windows logos all over, and it bashes Macs, which is done mostly by Windows-loving puppies.
---
The magnificent "RedHat-supporting" Microsoft-loving site was done in FrontPage. Did you expect anything different?
---
Check out QNX. It's intended for embedded/small memory systems. They fit networking, kernel, a gui, and a browser on a bootable 1.44 disk. I think you can download the disk image.
okay.. 'clueless' is a harsh word.. the guy does know a *lot* about game programming.
still, take a look at what he's saying.. by his own admission, he dived into low-level programming in an OS where he didn't know the memory model, and found himself having to reboot.. what a surprise. in effect, he's blaming the OS for his own mistake.
i know he's using that example as a lead-in to pointing out that the Mac OS memory model isn't designed around protected memory. okay, valid point.. the memory model is old, and is definitely due for some upgrading. OTOH, take a look at the conditions in which the thing was originally designed to run.
when Linux can run the kernel, a GUI, and a single application with 256K of RAM, another 512K of library routines in ROM, and nothing but a floppy drive, i'll listen to arguments that there's a better way.
as for the issue of preemptive versus cooperative multitasking, i'm willing to grant that OS technology has pretty much shifted to being preemptive. process scheduling is tightly linked to the memory model, though. preemptive multitasking is closely associated with a protected memory model, and a cooperative scheme works well with some of the assumptions built into the Mac OS memory model.
i'm surprised Carmac didn't mention the problems which result from direct pointer references into memory.. the OS repacks memory periodically to reduce heap fragmentation, so you can't assume that pointers will remain valid across certain system calls. the OS supports a double-indirection scheme which balances ease of use (**mp as opposed to *mp) against internal cleaning. OTOH, maybe he just locked all his pointers to keep them from being moved, and caught the second-stage frustrations of heap fragmentation.
again.. write a port of Linux that runs a GUI preemptively in 1MB of RAM with a 10MB hard drive, and i'll listen carefully to any arguments about alternative designs.
i'm not saying the Mac OS is fundamentally better.. in fact, i think protected memory and preemptive multitasking are better solutions now that the computing resources to support them are affordable. coherent memory and cooperative multitasking are legacy issues, and they're being dealt with.
in the meantime, RTFM.
i happen to have a Mac SE, vintage '89, sitting on my desk at the moment with that exact hardware configuration. it runs OS 7.1, a word processor, and a telnet client quite comfortably, thank you. i have a couple more SEs with dual floppies and no HD at all. i don't consider them workhorses by any means, but they're good for taking notes while i step through code with a debugger on my main machine, and as sattelite testing units when i'm working on distributed code.
to expand on my earlier point, i believe it's entirely possible to port Linux to that kind of platform. i also know, however, that anyone who does such a port will have to deal with exactly the same kind of resource management issues as the developers of the Mac OS did 10-15 years ago.
nothing in software is free, and there are all sorts of mutually exclusive goals in software design.. that's part of any programmer's working reality. if you want to do do one thing well you have to pay for it by giving up something else.
Carmac is a game designer, which means his main goal is fairly well defined: devote every possible CPU cycle to drawing the next frame. that's a perfectly reasonable goal, and the game engine he's written is a speed demon. OTOH, he pays for that speed by using the resources of the system to the max. if his code *isn't* a resource hog, he isn't getting the kind of power that he could be.
the Mac OS, by contrast, was designed for an era when a 4MB SIMM was a major investment, not a keychain (enthusiastic Linux advocates sometimes forget that the revolution didn't have much momentum back when 32MB cost a few $K). it was also designed for a market that was relatively forgiving when it came to sheer, display-crunching, multimedia throughput. given that context, it only makes sense for the Mac OS to have been developed with an eye towards resource optimization.
deveopment of a coherent resource management schema is the single biggest PITA of programming. it includes memory allocation, error checking, and is tightly linked to your underlying domain model. *nobody* likes to go in and retune their resource management, because it falls just this side of a complete overhaul.
Carmac's code (though i haven't seen the source) is almost certainly designed around a resource model of "i want it, and i want it *NOW*", which is normal when you optimize for speed. the Mac OS is designed around a model which encourages a more careful (or stodgy, depending on your POV) approach to resource allocation.
to say that Carmac's code sucks because it didn't run on the first try under the Mac OS would be just as irrelevant as saying the OS sucks because it didn't support his resource model. the only meaningful statement is that the two aren't entirely compatible. either one could doubtless be tweaked to fit the other, but in either case, that would involve a lot of work.
Carmac probably doesn't want to redesign his whole resource management schema just to boost the cross-platform stability of his game engine. fortunately, he doesn't have to.. Apple has already recognized the value of retooling its OS to use the kind of resource luxury we take for granted today. in a few seasons, the whole memory manager/cooperative multitasking thing will be history, and people will have to find something new about the Mac OS to hate.
First the poor OpenGLless Be guy then this flame bait. We still need some article "proving" Windows is better than Unix, tough.
it works just fine. worst that can happen is that you need to tell fdisk how many tracks to consider, but that's only under 2.0.36 or older. use 2.2.2 or 2.2.3 and be happy.
macintoy is the right word :)
Some people swear by their LinuxPPC boxes. A lot of people viciously support Be. To the point of rabidity (and no, don't cite that entire Apple-wont-give-out-specs-to-Be bullshit because they have more than they need and they're just not getting off their lazy asses. If LinuxPPC will work, so can Be if they want to try). The Mac is most certainly as open as any PC system, if not more so due to OpenFirmware (or are you not of the initiated?). Just because their (Apple's) OS doesn't run on anything else HARDLY means that their hardware is not 'open.'
Amy
---- My Design, Code, Ruby on Rails blog: http://www.slash7.com/
What about my Macintosh 6500? I would assume that since the Developer releases didn't support the 6500 that it won't be supported. I suppose I could install LinuxPPC now that I finally bought an external modem and got rid of that stupid internal modem.
Impersonating Tycho from Penny Arcade since before there was a PA.
CT, they have ya fooled - these are NOT linux buddies... have you ever considered removing a post of your own? there are some sites that do not deserve the popularity of the /. effect...
s t=www.dafirm.com
http://www.netcraft.com/cgi-bin/Survey/whats?ho
and crappy page, too, it kills netscape on my system...
All of the above.
opps, wrong reply button
Yawn....
One day, a bunch of Microsofties decide they want to bump up their hit count. How best to do this? Why, get /.'d of course!
"Hmm, slashdot is full of Linux users... How about we put Red Hat logos everywhere to appeal to slashdotters, even though we sure as hell haven't installed Linux on a single computer before. It doesn't matter, nobody will figure us out! I mean, the internet is totally anonymous! What, Winzip? Windows? Nobody will notice those logos there. The slashdotters will totally love us for having Red Hat banners and for being funny, since we have tons of funny stuff everywhere! I bet we'll even get regular visitors from slashdot! Hey, let's make it look totally natural and ask out friend MOREX to report it to slashdot for us!"
It's just one of those facts of life. I've been beat on so much in college for being a Mac user and I make fun of Windows in kind. All you need to do is keep it from getting too personal. C'mon, a public forum is no place to be thin-skinned, is it?
Yes there is:
http://www.linuxsucks.com
Charming? No.
I wholeheartedly agree. The fact that MacMafia shamelessly plugs windows98 in all of its buggy glory is quite disturbing. Every OS has its problems, but to debunk one based solely on idiotic claims is just mindless. I expected to see something funny, but all I recieved was a stupid rant on apple and some touched up MiB images.
[jream@cheesewhiz jream]$ telnet www.dafirm.com 80 Trying 208.8.213.29... Connected to www.dafirm.com. Escape character is '^]'. GET HTTP11.1 HTTP/1.1 400 Bad Request Server: Microsoft-IIS/4.0 Date: Sat, 13 Mar 1999 22:30:27 GMT Content-Type: text/html Content-Length: 87 ErrorThe parameter is incorrect. Connection closed by foreign host. [jream@cheesewhiz jream]$
Did you notice the banner ad on top of the "news" section on that site? It's for Windoze NT... (the link is not valid any more, though.)
Errr... Is that *paid* advertisement? Would be cute. It would show that M$ really doesn't know what to do with it's money...
C.
And on which OS would they run that, NT? With all the down-time, the site won't be much of a burden to anyone but the sysadmins...
C.
I don't think Mr. Carmac has any great insights. He is neatly glossing over the many stupid warts that Wintel inherits from the 8088 days, to wit the crappy DMA and INT structure, BIOS problems (ever try to get a 10 gig hard disk running on Linux???, or move a SCSI drive between controllers?). Win 95/98 has loads of 16 bit code, and the mechansim to support long file names is a gross hack. Win 95/98 doesn't really protect the kernal from applications overwriting memory, either. The CPU is a crufty non-orthoganal CISC architecture that is the worst thing that can be inflicted on programmers - and the MMX extensions?? Give me a break - they help the really terrible multimedia performance at the expensive of cutting off floating point. Hell. Win still relies on file name extensions to do application linking. Give me a break - this is almost the 21st century!! And how may disk partition formats has MS inflicted on us?? ??
Not to mention Microsoft's 'we own you' attitude. Polluted Java, polluted HTML, sending user information back to the mother ship despite being explicitly told not to? Or how about their coopting technology (see Stacker) without bothering to license? Take a look at the 'Halloween' memos - where Microsoft talks about polluting existing network standards? Is this the company you really want to support??
I think with the release of GIMP that Unix (particularly the open source Linux and BSD distributions) gains considerable ground on the MacOS as a possibility for image editing. Hell, GIMP runs decently on my Pentium 90 with a paltry 24M of RAM (unless I swap between it and Navigator too many times). For HTML authoring, Emacs with html-helper-mode performs rather well (especially if you catch on to elisp enough to add simple things).
Unix variants do not have to be hard to use. Being careless with DEL got you in serious trouble under DOS back in the old days too (and still can get you in trouble in the Win98 command prompt; remember DEL there bypasses the cute "click here to undelete your masterpiece" Recycling Bin). There do exist GUI and (n)curses-based file managers for Unix.
-- Shawn K. Quinn
I posted the above comment by clicking "preview", completely unintentionally. There's no telling though if there's a mislink in /.'s scripting or my MacOS browser (the new browser iCab. Get Deutch baybee!) Guess which one *I* think was the culprit! ;-)
Not much else to say...I won't finish that thought on "Site of the..." because I've read the comment about this site taking M$ munny. If they want to be the ButtTrumpet for M$ FUD then they're certainly within their rights.
The slac.com page is in response to what happened when one of our users registered www.jerry.com to our IP. Suddenly the webmaster started getting some pretty heated messages because it wasn't the home of the Jerry Springer web page. The link I put up was where some of these classic works of western literature are posted.
I wonder if I should explain the reference to ButtTrumpet too, since the count of old-school mac hackers around here is probably pretty small... let's see if there is anyone else out there, shall we?
Hint...Trumpet WinSock.
peace on earth (or earth in pieces, I don't care)
jaz
From InterNic...
Registrant:
The Firm (DAFIRM-DOM)
11116 SE 204th
Kent, WA 98031 -- Kent WA, as in 25 miles from Redmond, Kent WA.
USA
Domain Name: DAFIRM.COM
Administrative Contact, Technical Contact, Zone Contact:
Colcord, Doug (DC4582) doug@FOXINTERNET.NET
425-562-2900
Billing Contact:
Colcord, Doug (DC4582) doug@FOXINTERNET.NET
425-562-2900
Record last updated on 05-May-97.
Database last updated on 11-Mar-99 11:03:46 EST.
Domain servers in listed order:
NS1.FOXINTERNET.NET 208.8.204.15
NS2.FOXINTERNET.NET 208.8.204.11
-------------------------------
The sad part isn't that this site was PAID for by MicroSoft, the sad part is it wasn't even funny.
Commander Fajita, I though you had better taste than this...
"Grab them by the pussy" -- President of the United States of America
Read the topic.
poke around ftp.idsoftware.com
Ok I am a Linux user and I am tried of MS bashing on Slashdot... so lets flame Apple!
Bit pathetic those anti-platform-sites, this one especially childish. Use a system that is right for the job, or for you.
The page was bad, the jokes non-existent and just said Macs suck because they suck basically. Why on earth this was posted on Slashdot as a News item I have no idea. /. before I got LinuxPPC and thought it was nice because of computer related news/interesting stuff not because I was interested in listening to people trash OSes.
Let's not insult users of other OS because we don't like what they use. It's futile and a waste time.
I used to come to
Hehh hehh. That page with the e-mails from the Springer freaks...I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.
Well, I'm no ~peace fanatic~ but I respect great people like Gandhi. Of course, these lamers don't seem to know what respect is... Look at that pic, ain't it revolting? http://www.dafirm.com/images/splash2.jpg And what about this one showing some religious ritual that they ridiculize by their stupid jokes... http://www.dafirm.com/images/splash1.gif I think they should shut the fuck up...
these guys dont even write their web pages using linux - check for yourself - the generator is Micro$oft FP - at least try to cover your tracks guys