Slashdot Mirror
An Experience of "Kira489"
Rape. It's a violent crime, arguably the most violent crime, even more savage than murder. The psychological repercussions are severe to the victim, causing even years of trauma. It's frighteningly common--and it's often associated with the Internet. We've all heard the story in which a fourteen year old girl living in Maine is given a plane ticket to Arizona by a forty-seven year old man claiming to be a eighteen year old boy in an America On-line chatroom. She accepts--heck, she's in love and her parents are a pain--and flies to meet him. Of course, upon seeing him, she knows he's not the eighteen year old stud she'd fantasized about, but being alone and lost in a foreign city leaves her with no obvious choice but to leave the airport with him. Of course, he takes her to the local motor lodge and rapes her.
Unfortunately, the media loves these stories, the more horrible the better. It's the media that establishes ideas in people, but I did not realize strength of the current attitudes about Internet users until a friend of mine was raped by someone from the Big Bad Internet. After the rape, which had taken place in her house, she went to her local hospital, where she was tested for sexually transmitted diseases, and her physical wounds treated. The rapist remained in her house, and she was advised to call the police. The police escorted the rapist off her property, and persuaded her to press charges, claiming she had a rock solid case. To this, she consented.
Apparently, the detective in charge on her case didn't agree that the case was closed when he learned she had met the rapist on the Internet. "They [Internet users] are nothing but relentless sex addicts," he told her. "Furthermore, every conversation on the Internet is logged. I can get access to these logs, and if I find that you ever hugged him on the Internet, I will show that this is not a matter of rape, but consentual sex." He proceeded to ask if she had met others from the Internet, which she had. Upon finding out that she had met me on numerous occasions, and even had sex with me, the "slueth" felt satisfied he had proved his point, "No one on the Internet ever wants to do anything but have sex."
Despite the fact that my friend was injured to the point that, according the documented hospital report, she had bruises and tears in her vagina, and the fact that people willingly having sex usually do not injure one another, the police threatened my friend with the possibility of putting her in jail if she was lying!
It is ludicrous to believe that all people associated with the Internet are sex-crazed maniacs, or that meeting someone in real-life is recipe for disaster. I've met a great deal of people from the Internet, for both personal and professional reasons, and I've yet to be raped. Yes, like a few of my real-life friends and relationships, I even slept with a few people I met from the Internet. I even spent a week with one Internet pal snowed-in together during the blizzard that hit the midwestern United States this past January.
Was I concerned about my safety at any of these times I met someone from the Internet? No, I wasn't--no more than I would be meeting someone I didn't know very well in person for dinner and possibly spending the night together. I've never met someone from the Internet expecting sex, and while I'm sure there are many that do, I would hazard a guess that the number that do is not any higher than people who know each other in real-life would in a similar situation (e.g., sharing a hotel room in a distant town).
I once met, with the permission of her mother, a girl in high school, since I happened to be traveling through her town and had some extra hours to spare for dinner. She later mentioned that a real-life friend of hers admonished her for meeting me, claiming she hardly knows me. Well, how much do two people know each other on a first date for coffee or dinner? Interestingly, the media refuses to acknowledge this similarity.
It's important to be careful when meeting someone from the Internet--just as it's normal to be careful in any situation where you've not spent a large amount of time together in person. It's important to realize that a person's remarks and responses in a chatroom or a MUD may be contrived, no matter how fluent they seem to flow. Likewise, there are plenty of phony men and women in every community, and you're just as likely to encounter them in real-life, rapists or not. Regardless, it is certainly not in the interests of society for those who enforce the law to ridicule rape, no matter the circumstances of how the involved individuals initially came in contact with each other. Rape is rape; it's a matter far too serious for qualification.
First Rob thanks for posting soemthing like this. Second I am posting as AC becuase if you read the rest of my comment you will understand.
What is pointed out in this article is so true and so stereotypical. I am a male and I was accused of RAPING somebody once. Why, because her boyfriend came to knwo about it and she would rather ruin my life then ruin her relationship. Do you have any idea of the humiliation not to mention the time and the money lost because of such an accusation.
And then that ignorant police officer making those statements. If she has been hurt and that can be proven medically, it is not consensual sex and trust me I know, since I had to go through a trial to prove my innocence.
Does this mean that we all perverts and rapists and the dredge of society since we hang out on the "internt". Hell, if it was not for internet, I would not have a job. Will someone explain it to that ignoramoose who is running around tellign people he is there to serve and protect.
Mitch, I can only offer my sympathies for your friend because I have an idea of what she is going through. As for the rest who have their own ideas for the "kind of' people on the internet, all I have to say is "EDUCATION".
Sorry about the rant, but something in me just blew up. And if you made it this far, thanks for listening.
I've been on the Internet for almost 15 years, since the days when all the Internet was to me was an email gateway and a hacked-together list processor.
I can truly say that the Internet as a medium has given me some of the most rewarding relationships that a person could want. It is *definitely* a major part of my life, and anyone that says I'm defect for using the Internet as a social medium can kiss my ass and go back to dishing out snake oil as far as I'm concerned.
Which is why I feel that stories that inflame the net-rape cases really are dangerous. It only serves one purpose: to further propagate the rape meme through society.
IRC, E-mail, Newsgroups, ICQ - all of these mediums strip away a *lot* of barriers to social interaction that would not ordinarily allow people to get to know each other. It's so obvious that it feels droll to even bring it up - the Internet is an incredibly powerful social medium. I wouldn't know 3/4's of the people I know if I had to rely on modern social mechanisms to meet people and interact with them.
And no, I don't have sex with any of the people I've met online, but I am *very* close to a lot of them, and I would definitely consider some of my IRC friends to be among my best.
But it goes without saying that all this technology of interaction that is the Internet (with all its formalized and well engineered protocols) simply can't replace the *SAME* degree of protocol in real life social situations.
Yes, there *SHOULD* be a protocol for meeting someone online. Never make the first meeting alone, never put yourself in a situation where you're going to be alone with the other person in a (cause->effect) situation. You should *both* be causative in the meeting - in other words, on fair ground, with equal opportunity to break the connection if needed.
Hmm...
Perhaps, out of this Slashdot story, we engineers could actually *SUBMIT* a protocol? Why couldn't we get an RFC together for 'meeting online friends' and submit it?
A protocol is a protocol, and if *WE*, the *ENGINEERS* of the Internet, don't submit it - well we can hardly complain when the MASS MEDIA come in and define those 'protocols' for us in their terms.
Terms that are carefully calculated to create controversy, and sell ad space...
; -- the corruption of government starts with its secrets. a truly free people keep no secrets. --
The Detective was probably correct, at least from a jury's point of view. You get 13 non-geek "peers" up there and the guy who did the rape takes a walk. Sad but true.
Reason: the jury would believe all the TV movies they'd ever seen and have the same point of view as the detective. Call it media poisoning of our judicial system -- that's why juries are out of date; you can't expect people to make good decisions about things they don't know/don't care about/are already biased about. Hell, look at the OJ trial.
----
Every year during my review, I just pray the words "slashdot.org" aren't mentioned.
Posted by Stephen "The Carp" Carpenter:
Its amazing hat people are so ignorant.
My current girlfriend and I live together...
we met on "The Internet". A co-worker of
mine met his wife "On the internet"
(amazingly on the same online service that
I met my girlfriend...tho 7 years
apart)
I have met a total of about 5 people "From the
net". Course one of them was scared of meeting
me...(for the reasons of this story above)
but things have always gone well.
Posted by Stephen "The Carp" Carpenter:
It is amazing what people get away with
in our society.
Every day women are brutally raped yet...we
would rather expend money and respouces
on drug raids and "Consensual crimes" rather
than going after violent criminals.
Then we have the actual attitude towards rape.
We have the "but she was asking for it" group
who either don't believe her or just don't care.
Then we have people who cheapen the word
rape by applying it to consensual sex...
because they were drunk/stoned/whatever and
don't want to take responsibility for their
actions.
The whol eidea just makes me sick. But more so
that people use it to attack the "internet"
I mean, for every person who preys on
netizens...there are many more rapists out in
the real world who don't need to use a computer
to find their prey.
I think that it is time that we as a society stop
trying to blame the net and actually do something.
Posted by u4ic-fx:
Not that I dont feel sympathy and compassion for the victims of such incidents, but realistically
a little common sense go's a long way, there are many guidelines for meeting people from the internet and unfortunatly, untill you actually meet that person, you'll never know if anything of what they've said is true, that being said
for those who will continue to find new friends online and meet them irl here are a few common sense things to take into consideration..
talk on the phone first, before meeting someone for the first time, hearing their voice will give you an indication of whether or not they are who/what they say they are ie a 40 year old claiming to be 18 etc
insist on a meeting in a public place, with your friends and their friends ie a coffee shop
make sure atleast several people online have given u "references" about the person..
yeah its being a bit paranoid, but hey, better to be paranoid, than a rape/kidnapping victim,
for complete lists of suggested idea's check a search engine for bdsm sites (yeah its off topic) but they usually have a faq about saftey for meeting someone for the first time.. its not totally relevant but alot of the concepts cross over, above all think with your brain, not your sexdrive
I've learned my lesson well. I now only meet groups of people with other groups of people that I already know. Gathers are relatively safe. Also if you're meeting a potential sexual partner, it may not be a bad idea to have a couple friends meet first with the new person. Sex on a first date generally isn't a good idea anyway.
Clinton made me a Republican. Bush made me a Libertarian. Trump is making me question reality.
The idea of meeting people online has sparked many discussions among my group of friends this year. My roommate sees nothing wrong with meeting others in chat rooms, and will argue until he is blue in the face that it is no different than meeting people out in "the real world." Now I'm not a chat person myself...the extent of my Internet socialization is the occasional game of bridge on Yahoo! where I will exchange greetings with those I am playing with as a matter of courtesy.
If I were to ever become the chat room type, I think I could keep myself limited to using it for informational purposes. That is, I see IRC and similar things as fine forums for collaboration, catching up with friends from far away, etc. I personally would never use it to try and meet others to establish relationships that would eventually result in a face-to-face meeting.
The whole idea makes me quite leery, actually. I understand that there are a lot of you out there who have "success" stories, and that it has turned out to be a good experience. That's great, and you are fortunate. But please, spare me the details...because I find personal anecdotes used as support of a view to be largely worthless and a very weak form of argument. Your personal experiences do not extrapolate to the whole situation. Until we see a substantive study by a research group of sociologists, psychologists, or whoever is qualified to do such a thing, we should really withhold judgment about this behavior. I cannot say it is better or worse than meeting people in real life, only that I have a gut feeling about it that I cannot ignore.
Several generations ago it was common for marriages to be arranged, and it still happens in some societies. Decisions were made for people based on socio-economic status and reputation, not on the chemistry two young people established. In these times we are used to the idea that in most cases, we need to get a complete picture of a person before we consider embarking on a serious relationship. Personality, looks, intelligence, habits--some or all of these are important to all of us. That was a major change in the way people met and decided to spend the rest of their lives with each other. What I wonder is what the growing number of people online will do to this process. I think we should all be patient with it and be extra careful until we have a sense of the wider implications and the trends.
Indeed, it seems that many people are so much less introverted when conversing upon the 'net that they don't really take heed to the fact that there is a real person on the end of the conversation. They'll spill their guts about anything and everything, and often telling the things about their personal lives we don't want to hear.
Through many different ways I've met people from online games, IRC, etc and despite the fact that the conversations were purely ASCII, using all those characters like (* ! $ _ etc) help to emphasize sarcasm, humor, sadness, etc. And many times, you really can get a good idea whether or not the person you're speaking (typing) to on the other end is really who they say they are, or if they're just "blowing smoke up your ass".
For example, I'll describe to you someone who I've worked with a bit, and have known only via the web. He runs some websites, and I occasionally write small, custom Perl scripts for his sites. Now, when first meeting him I found that he was 15 years old. Okay, that's fine. I can respect anybody as long as they can be somewhat mature whilst conversing and avoid talking like a "warez d00d'. But then he goes on to tell all sorts of tall tales. They're not all impossible or unlikely, but take them all together and you see what I mean. A few of them are:
His dad makes $350,000 per year. (not hard to believe all by itself)
He makes literally thousands of dollars per month without hardly any effort because he runs all of his porn sites so well. (Wow, thousands? that's some site!)(
He expresses his concern about being able to pay me for my scripts (very inexpensive), yet says he's got this really expensive sports car. (strange finances, fast cars?)
Talks way too much about how many "girlfriends" he's got and how often he's "getting a piece". (*UGH* like I care or need to know)
And you get the idea. Why do people try so hard to impress others on the Internet? Or in any other way, for that matter? Shit, I've always been more impressed by a simple friendliness and honesty than tall tales of money & sex. If I find a person whom I can hold a "geek-ish" conversation with, that's enough for me. I'm not interested in their personal lives' details that supposedly describe how popular they are or how successful they are.
Give me some simple intelligent feedback amongst all the noise on the net. Then I'll be impressed.
I only post comments when someone on the internet is wrong.
First off, I seriously hope that Kira will be able to recover from her ordeal and be able to live her life fully.
I'm male and throughout high school, I never really understood Rape. I mean, I had gone for years believing that it was nothing more than someone who was sexually out of control. And I never understood why my female friends either avoided the subject like a I was screaming and dying from ebola or why they got extremely upset.
But luckily, I had a good many friends who took the time to explain a few things to me. For that, I am grateful.
It isn't the sex, it is the power and control. Power.. control. To control and manipulate another human being, to be able to use them as one pleased. To unleash the full of one's darker side onto another human being.
Why would people want to do that to another person? Why would ANYONE want to do that to another person? Why would you, do that?
I think alot of people avoid that line of thought. The consideration that they might have that kind of personality within themselves.
I mean.. your "basic rapist" is like anyone else. Nevermind the internet. But he or she can be anyone.. your next door neighbor, the teacher at your school, your old friend of years and years, parents, and even children.
What made them step over that line and continue doing what so many people consider to be so horribly bad?
I personally don't have an answer to that. And I don't think many people do either.
To the persons who think murder is worse than rape, I beg to disagree. I think Rape is worse. Rape has all the characteristics of murder, but the victom often survives at a cost. The friends and family are affect like in a murder, but must not only deal with their grief, but that of the victom's. A long path to healing takes place, one where the victom must work through the questions I asked above. The Why? Was it something I did? Why would someone do this to me? Why? Why?
I think it is very true though, when women say that men don't understand. Alot of men don't understand. Many do, but there are still so many who don't. And to be truthful, I don't feel that even understanding really stops rape. Rape happens because an individual, a human being, decided that they will do this for their own personal reasons. They are convinced in their mind that the person who will be the victom deserves what they will be getting.
I don't know.. the net isn't the problem, it has only dredged up into the open what has always been a problem. People will disagree, but that is their choice.
As for castration, castration does no good. Hormone treatment does no good. Rape IS about CONTROL and POWER. Just because you remove one tool, doesn't mean a person can't commit rape. Rape. To take from another human being what they have refused, what society has refused the rapist. No, removing an organ or dampening the effects of a hormone does little good.
A person can rape as effectively with their hand, a broom stick, a candle, a bottle, rope, whipes, whatever. Just as equally effective as with their own organs.
On the topic of men being raped by woman, another topic which my friends were kind enough to share their thoughts on. Because rape IS about control, it doesn't matter what gender the rapist is. Male, female, neutor, old or young. The point is to have power and control over another.
For a man, to be used and had in any way his captor would have him, it is in every way as demeaning, humiliating, and traumatising as it is for a woman. No more, no less. With one difference.
The support structure and the mental association is there for women. But for men, it is something which either is rare, or not available. There is no sanctuary for men.
And I highly doubt that traumatized women would enjoy sharing the facilities with traumatized men.
Maybe I'm in the wrong when I think that rapists should probably be dragged into the streets and shot. The media would like that. Sensationalism and a message to other would be rapists.
But that would be inhumane. I just wish the rapist had wondered whether it would be humane to rape his or her victom.
My two cents.
- Wing
- Reap the fires of the soul.
- Harvest the passion of life.
- Wing
- Reap the fires of the soul.
- Harvest the passion of life.
Several years ago my wife wanted internet access. Since she was not that computer savy I used one of the numerous AOL disks we were using as coasters and setup an account for her.
After this experience I have one piece of advice that I give women that are about to sign up with AOL or a similar service: Use a manly sounding nickname.
It was crazy... she couldn't even sign on to check her mail without all of these messages popping up from strange guys asking her what she was up to. She was almost completely turned off to the internet from this experience.
Needless to say, we canceled the account and I just let her run through my dedicated line. She may not have all of the fancy(?) features of an AOL, but she can check her e-mail and browse the net in peace.
Edu. sig-line: Choose rhymes with lose. Chose rhymes with goes. Loose rhymes with goose.
Comparing? THEN use THAN.
Granted, torture is certainly a frightening concept, and a genuinely lousy way to die, but I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest that rape is a tad more common than torture-to-the-death, neh? I don't remember seeing any statistics along the lines of "1 in 10 women are violently tortured to death." Arguing that rape is a "less violent crime" misses the point entirely. Rape happens, commonly, to a lot of people.
http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=nomic
I think the main reason is because you don't have the fear of being laughed at or made fun of if you say or do something stupid. I myself am very open when I'm online (if anyone doubts this, just look at my website ;-), and have made friends from around the world, some of whom I've even been able to meet in person.
Sure, people get raped and such meeting someone whom they've met on the Internet, but it certainly happens in real life too, and I'll even go out on a limb and hypothosize that it happens more in RL than on the Internet since on the Internet, if someone has a hostile personality, you'll be able to see it right away and not even consider wanting to meet them.
In a nutshell, I think the advantages of meeting people on the net far outweigh the disadvantages.
This detective was obviously an asshole.
But the whole internet angle is only a new twist on a problem with a long history, which is that women who are raped cannot effectively press charges unless they are basically the purest most chaste thing on the planet. Any hint that a woman ever actually wanted sex in her life, and this is the way the whole damn justice system will treat her.
It is sad that these kinds of backwards attitudes are still around.
This may be one best fielded by Katz,
but I'm curious to see why people are
so open on the net. I've seen others as
well as myself open up and talk about very
private things as well as curse out and
use language I never would in real life
to complete strangers. Is it that ASCII
text and animated chat room icons lets us
hide behind a false face: One we can draw
ourselves and discard at anytime.
I think so. I think that whenever talking
to someone who hides behind a cute nick and
quickly turns the conversation to an unusually
intimate level clearly indicates a possible
sexual preditor. Women need to watch out.
check references. use their skills: ping and
traceroute to see where they really are talking
from.
But this doesnt mean everyone is "out to get you".
Just use commen sense and caution.
my 2 cents.
-Z
I'm afraid. I'm afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going.
Not so long ago, a woman's rape charge could be successfully attacked in court with claims like, "Look how she was dressed! She must've wanted it!" This is just the same sorry attitude resurfacing on the "new frontier". I guess it was never dead, just dormant.
So sorry to hear of your friend's experience. I hope she can learn to trust again someday.
Peace.
Ask your doctor if getting up off your ass is right for you! -- Bill Maher
It brings to light, however, a growing possibility that such Internet crimes might escape adequate prosecution, due to the detective's "logic". That is, the ludicrous proposition that a person who "hugs" someone virtually has opened the door for a claim of consensual sex.
Let's bring it closer to home. I'm a man. For a moment, let me pick a volunteer, another man; You, sir! Yes, you with the buzzcut and the goatee. Thanks for volunteering, pleased to meet you. There, we shook hands. We made contact, in fact, of a physical nature. I put out my hand, and he clearly consented to touch it. Now, on occasion, I hug other men, usually close friends and family, but I'll make an exception here for this fine fellow. There, he again consented. Does that mean I can now engage in anal sex with this man, whether he protests or not, at any point in the operation, based on his "consent" to the hug? Of course not! (Gee, look at 'im run...)
The point is, we have the ability to refuse to comply with any action at any time, whether we ever performed the action before or not, whether we planned to perform it or not. We are not required, nor should it be assumed we are willing, to engage in sex just because we once did. Kira489 probably did virtual-hug her rapist. She might have done alot more than that, virtually. She might have done more than that physically, and it means nothing! The second she said "Stop," and the assailant refused, it was rape. Period. Frankly, I say execute the rapist, but that's my opinion.
Back to the medium of the Internet. Folks, we can't say this enough: all those people who have been raped, robbed, beaten and killed by people they met online probably either never thought about the possibility, or simply figured that "it won't happen to me." Just like we all do. The fact that it can must weigh heavily in our decision to meet someone. I know it's titillating to chat with some people on the wire. I know several people who, in fact, invent elaborate personas to role play online, with unsuspecting people. Many of whom, I'm sure, are being just as fake as my friends. But when we take the chance of opening up to someone online, and exposing ourselves to a meeting in "meatspace", then all those defenses we have collapse: IP masqing, finger-deactivation... none of that works when the person is standing right in front of you.
Be not as these, I say. Think. Be a little paranoid. The cost of serious misjudgement of character is too high.
Believe nothing, not even if I say it, if it violates your sense of reason -- Buddha
Yeah, I think that is the basic idea, but some people believe that Internet chat people are normal. You don't need some else along all of the time, just make the first time you meet somewhere open and public, like a mall or a restaurant. Unless the person is a good liar, you should be able to tell what will happen.
To some people, murder is better because you don't have to deal with it. Read When Heaven and Earth Changed Places and tell me what you think. The author thinks she would have been better off dead. There is also some articles at Salon Magazine about it too. Rape stays with you for the rest of your life. When you are dead, you aren't thinking "Hey, why did this happen to me?" Have you ever talked to a rape victim? It is not pretty. A slow and painful death is worse than rape, but not a gunshot to the head.
Of course, never expierencing either makes me not the best person to judge.
"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" - F. Voltaire.
It's a simple substitution of every instance of the word "Internet" with the word "Telephone". Not completely grammatically accurate, but you get the idea.
...a little food for thought...
perl: s/Internet/Telephone/g;
Rape. It's a violent crime, arguably the most violent crime, even more savage than murder. The psychological repercussions are severe to the victim, causing even years of trauma. It's frighteningly common--and it's often associated
with the Telephone. We've all heard the story in which a fourteen year old girl living in Maine is given a plane ticket to Arizona by a forty-seven year old man claiming to be a eighteen year old boy in an America On-line chatroom. She accepts--heck, she's in love and her parents are a pain--and flies to meet him. Of course, upon seeing him, she knows he's not the eighteen year old stud she'd fantasized about, but being alone and lost in a foreign city leaves her with no obvious choice but to leave the airport with him. Of course, he takes her to the local motor lodge and rapes her.
Unfortunately, the media loves these stories, the more horrible the better. It's the media that establishes ideas in people, but I did not realize strength of the current attitudes about Telephone users until a friend of mine was raped by someone from the Big Bad Telephone. After the rape, which had taken place in her house, she went to her local hospital, where she was
tested for sexually transmitted diseases, and her physical wounds treated. The rapist remained in her house, and she was advised to call the police. The police escorted the rapist off her property, and persuaded her to press charges, claiming she had a rock solid case. To this, she consented.
Apparently, the detective in charge on her case didn't agree that the case was closed when he learned she had met the rapist on the Telephone. "They [Telephone users] are nothing but relentless sex addicts," he told her. "Furthermore, every conversation on the Telephone is logged. I can get access to these logs, and if I find that you ever hugged him on the Telephone,
I will show that this is not a matter of rape, but consentual sex." He proceeded to ask if she had met others from the Telephone, which she had. Upon finding out that she had met me on numerous occasions, and even had sex with me, the "slueth" felt satisfied he had proved his point, "No one on the Telephone ever wants to do anything but have sex."
Despite the fact that my friend was injured to the point that, according the documented hospital report, she had bruises and tears in her vagina, and the fact that people willingly having sex usually do not injure one another, the police threatened my friend with the possibility of putting her in jail if she was lying!
It is ludicrous to believe that all people associated with the Telephone are sex-crazed maniacs, or that meeting someone in real-life is recipe for disaster. I've met a great deal of people from the Telephone, for both personal and professional reasons, and I've yet to be raped. Yes, like a few of my real-life friends and relationships, I even slept with a few people I met from the Telephone. I even spent a week with one Telephone pal snowed-in together during the blizzard that hit the midwestern United States this past January.
Was I concerned about my safety at any of these times I met someone from the Telephone? No, I wasn't--no more than I would be meeting someone I didn't know very well in person for dinner and possibly spending the night together. I've never met someone from the Telephone expecting sex, and while I'm sure there are many that do, I would hazard a guess that the number that do is not any higher than people who know each other in real-life would in a similar situation (e.g.,
sharing a hotel room in a town).
I once met, with the permission of her mother, a girl in high school, since I happened to be traveling through her town and had some extra hours to spare for dinner. She later mentioned that a real-life friend of hers admonished her for meeting me, claiming she hardly knows me. Well, how much do two people know each other on a first date for coffee or dinner? Interestingly, the media refuses to acknowledge this similarity.
It's important to be careful when meeting someone from the Telephone--just as it's normal to be careful in any situation where you've not spent a large amount of time together in person. It's important to realize that a person's remarks and responses in a chatroom or a MUD may be contrived, no matter how fluent they seem to flow. Likewise, there are plenty of phony
men and women in every community, and you're just as likely to encounter them in real-life, rapists or not. Regardless, it is certainly not in the interests of society for those who enforce the law to ridicule rape, no matter the circumstances of how the involved individuals initially came in contact with each other. Rape is rape; it's a matter far too serious for qualification.
--The more you know, the less you know.
*sighs*
This is an issue I have had to deal with for the last four years. It was then that I moved from BBSing to the 'Net and the gateways of meeting people online opened up. Since then, I have met...oh, quite a few...about 5 or so people that I met in chat rooms in Real Life. And, although she would kill me if she saw this, I met my fiance online as well. I'll get to why she'd kill me in a moment....
Fact is, though, we *do* make friends online. But, just like meeting friends at college, you have to be paranoid and cautious. Perhaps, more so. Most of all, use a bit of what we have in Common Sense. When I met my first person, I traveled to LA, so you can imagine that I was very cautious even though we talked on the phone quite often for several months. We met in a public place, with plenty of people, and talked before we ever left anywhere else together.
That set the pattern for all the rest of the meetings.
I did not have to read any "Rules of Meeting People In Real Life" before hand, I just used my head before I jumped the gun. In fact, I had never seen a list like that until *after* that first trip. I knew there were risks involved and I could forsee the consequences, so I took measures to prevent them. Nothing is perfect, however, but a good bit of precaution can go a long way.
And you might end up making a good Real Life friend out of it.
Now, on to my fiance. She is actually one of the first people I talked to in a "Internet" chat room and we became friends over time, even collabing on some stories. Over time, our friendship was more. Now, at that time, the idea of a 'Net relationship was not on my mind...the idea was kind of...well, silly. But, at the same time, I could not deny that I felt more than just friendship. Through our collabs and our long phone talks, we got to know each other pretty well. So, it was decided, that for once and for all, we'd have to meet face to face -- just to find out.
We met, I met her parents and family and we took things slowly. A step at a time, just to make sure we *knew* what we were doing and not making some huge mistake...possibly one that would ruin a good friendship. We knew that it would be risky, open to much criticism, but after that first week with her, I knew I did not want to be apart.
And, for the record, there has never been any sexual intercourse. She is a stick-by-her-guns kind of woman and she will not until marriage. Male as I am, this has frustrated me, but at the same time, boosted my pride in her.
That was back in '96. It's '99 now and our eventual marriage is just around the corner. Her parents approve of me -- and them being very traditional Chinese descent, I had a big mountain to climb there *wipes brow* -- and so does her extended family.
However, she *hates* to let people know how we met. She fears the stigma and heavy critisicm that 'Net relationships have. Hell, even I had some negative beliefs about such before hand. If someone asks about it, she will tell, but she will never volunteer. I, personally, think we are freaky and abnormal, because we have succeeded in building a loving relationship from what started, in the beginning, as a chat and e-mail. I would, however, not recommend it to people who do not have the patience for it.
One thing, though, that has helped us succeed: brutal honesty. And we know all about honesty on the 'Net now, don't we? Heh.
As with any community and culture, there are the bad elements who are self-centered, self-serving, and with no personal respect for others. At time, we are all guilty of this, but the majority are better people than that. The minority, those who lie, devise, and purposely cause harm for their own satisfaction are those to look out for. And, of course, they're now on the 'Net as well.
I'll never tell someone not to meet someone off the 'Net, but I will urge them to think carefully, ponder about the consequences, and not to take risky chances until you have gotten to spend more time with a person in real life in public.
As with all things we do, online and off, we have to use common sense and consequences to guide us.
Nothing else will suffice.
I spent two years working as a counselor to rape
and harassment victims, and spent a great deal of time pouring over Ohio laws and regulations on
this issue.
Rape is rape is rape. If she said "No," it doesn't matter if she pranced in front of him naked, drunk, high, and anything else. A hug in a chat-room means nothing; the cop was ignorant of the prevailing trends in dealing with issues of rape and harassment, and did more to promote the prevailing rape culture in dealing with this issue, not help fight it.
One in six women are raped or harassed before graduating from college. Its not a blown-out-of-proportion statistic; its a scary fact. Educate yourself on your state's laws, learn what resources there are available for victims of harassment and rape, and if you know someone who is treated this way, support them. Listen to them, make yourself available, and make sure the individual (male or female) understands that its _not their fault_.
Matt
I honestly hope that no one makes a joke about this or something. It really is serious. Rape is horrible, and personally, I think rapists should be put in a large room with eachother and shot, but thats me. As far as how this applies to the Internet...apparently that particular officer has taken the "I am the law and know all" attitude, as opposed to "I am human and need to learn about this" that is more proffesional and shows more courage than hitting someone with his opinion like it was his night-stick. The media has fun thinking the Internet is a bunch of sex freaks who go around kidnapping people they meet in chat rooms and pedophiling eachother and whatnot. Let them think that, it sells newspapers. Then look at all the good that has come out of the Internet, and the availability of this resource to get informed, and ask them why they are destroying their own tool?
You should always meet people in a public place, and if possible bring a friend along. If the person you have gotten to know over the past days, weeks, months really does care about you and is your friend they will more than undersatnd these precauations.
If they are offended by your supposed lack of trust, then I'd say they are not worth your time anyway...
Maybe this person _did_ meet in a public place. The rapist could have been totally nice at the time, they hit it off great, etc. Then, they get back to the house and the guy pulls some Jekyll and Hyde routine. It isn't a whole lot different form anywhere else in this world just because it happens to start on the internet instead of a bar, gym, etc. It also isn't any more or less insidious that it happened the way it did. Like the author said, rape is rape. I don't care if she did invite the guy back and had _maybe_ led him on, via chat, to think they'd have sex. She has the right to refuse and he has the responsibility to not force the issue.
Do really dense people warp space more than others?
If you want paranoid (and in this case paranioa is a good thing) here are some more tips:
- cab money, you don't want to be dependant on this guy for anything
- make sure your friends/family know where you are going and when you can be expected to be home
- if you are a drinker, stay sober
It looks like you've already crossed one of the lines that people here have been recommending against: meeting people for the first time with a group of trusted friends.
But be aware, that the odds are better than 90% that this guy is nice and you don't want to ruin a chance at a great relationship by treating him like Jack the Ripper. Just be aware and don't get into situations where you have absolutely no control.