Slashdot Mirror
Public Enemy's Next Alblum Only Online
The Bastard writes "Just saw a CNN report that Public Enemy will
be releasing their next alblum exclusively on
the Net next month. Estimated cost would run about $10 for a "digital download". There
was nothing mentioned regarding the format
or any copy restrictions (legal or technical). "
I'm not into Rap (DJ Shadow is the closest I get, and thats
quite a distance) but Chuck D knows what's happening, and
its pretty excellent that he's willing to to push the future
today. Anyone have a good URL?
lets face it you could prolly buy the cd new for 13 dollars in a good record store and if you wait 2-3 months it will start being carried by the record clubs where you could get it for $6 (shipping included). if online music sales are going to succeed they need to start being realistic about the prices.
The average rap user probably doesn't have the resources to burn it. Take it as an insult if you like, but the fact is that the majority of people from any musical background don't have cd burners.
you are joking? how are artists/record companies going to make money selling music for just $10?
I mean - if its dope Id like to have it available for mixing. Pressing an acetat is no real option for me. Listening to music on the computer aint all the fun, you know.
But if its really good someone will surely bootleg it.
http://dailynews.yahoo.com/headlines/wr/story.html ?s=v/nm/19990417/wr/inter net_publicenemy_2.html
Yahoo News isn't big on external references. You can find it under the "Apr 16" link, though.
They probably will not have any kind of protection, judging by Chuck's previous public statements. They will go on something that the lamers and warez kiddez know nothing about - the honor system.
I think rap artists are so vocal here because
they've traditionally been screwed by the
record companies even harder than artists in
other genres. Also, there's the general
mistrust of the system prevalent among the
more politically oriented rap artists (Ice-T,
Chuck D, etc.).
First of all, there is some correlation between musical preference and computer knowledge. Many of the people which rap appeals to are from low-income urban areas where they don't have access to the kind of high-tech equipment we on slashdot have. There are exceptions to this, in fact there are many, as rap is making its way into the mainstream. However the average rap listener, through no fault of their own, just doesn't have access to that kind of equipment. And, if they don't have access to cd-burners, how much they know about audio-extraction is irrelevant.
In fact, the average person doesn't have access to that type of equipment. You seem to have the opinion that the only thing keeping people from doing things is lack of knowledge. I wish the world worked that way, but it doesn't. CD-burners aren't cheap, and as a result are usually only found in the hands of computer geeks. The average computer user (just restricting this to the average computer user already cuts out half the population) probably isn't going to buy a cd-burner. They see it as something frivolous, as they really aren't into warez and pirated music (pardon my lack of random capitalization). Some people use them for business purposes, but that removes them from the ranks of the "average" computer user. As a result, the average person's only way to get at a cd-burner is either through a computer geek (who they probably aren't friends with) or through someone's parents job ("You want me to use office equipment to steal music?").
I'm not saying this is a good thing, but it's the way the world is. Maybe in a few years everyone one will have access to a cd-burner, but I'm not holding my breath.
One of their fans has a complete history of Public Enemy and lots of info on the MP4/MP3/new CD at his web site. You can read all of the articles from different news sources since December. It can be found here. I hope this link works!
Well, I guess it didn't work... the URL is http://www.mailbag.com/users/deanengmann/pe.htm
Hope this gets posted on the main page soon. But according
to http://www.deadabase.com the maintainers of the site
have been asked by Grateful Dead Productions to pull MP3s
from the site and change the site's name, or face
legal action. I hope this is not sanctioned by the band and
someone will do something soon... it would be like
RMS suing a distributor for piracy.
$4 is chump change. That's lunch at Taco Bell. You're right.
How about you pay $14 for the music and I'll pay $6?
That way we'll both be happy.
Here's a URL for the article about Public Enemy. http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WAPO/19990 416/V000213-041699-idx.html (or try the Atomic Pop website) http://www.atomicpop.com/
Grateful Dead Productions is the band. www.deadbase.com does not post MP3s, it markets the book Deadbase, the guide to setlists. This book has been published for about 15 years without any problems from GDP.
By the way, there have been lots of MP3 copies of GD studio CDs on alt.binary.gdead lately - I can see them being annoyed about this.
Man get your facts right. Better still, visit
www.deadabase.com yourself. Deadabase still has
MP3s of other bands, including Jerry Garcia Band
and Other Ones... and the letter to them was not
signed by a band member.
I think you should double check your URL. www.deadbase.com does not post MP3s. Please visit http://www.deadbase.com before flaming again.
deadabase, not deadbase.
After all, who wants to pay large slices of their profits in licensing fees and other schmuck to some faceless PR mega-institution.
Yeah, but how are we, the consumers, going to be able to find anything listenable in all the noise on the Net. If every Tom, Dick, and Harry is going to start posting MP3s of their own music, you'll wade through tons of crap to find something that's decent. What's going to happen (if MP3s by established artists take off) is that the Mega-PR machines will just start doing their thing on the Net. So yeah, PE might benefit since they have a following, but the industry as a whole isn't going to radically change. Eh?
oops -- sorry
if any artists deserves to get paid, it's public enemy. don't be a cheap ass, and support worthy artists. pay the damn 10 bucks.
Vinyl has soul, and it's physical, which mean you can interact with it, and you can MIX it...
...King of the 1200's (it's about the music) DANCE!
What are you implying? People who listen to rap are stupid? What f***? Grow up buddy!
It's called HIP HOP
and that's what DJ Shadow says he does too
Didnt he say in that interview that 2 dollar (i think) legal mp3s (i assume he meant a whole album ) online was good because then maybe we'd start seeing 5 dollar albums in stores as a panic response.
Well he's certainly off to a good start on that mission...
It does not make a difference if Public E fans don't have the resources to get the MP3 it more of the point that Chuck D is making. Stop the record companies from ripping off the public and the artist.
DOWN with the RECORD COMPANIES, THE MUSIC MONOPOLIES and the RADIO STATION BRAIN WASHING!! FREE MUSIC~ Shoutcast 4 ALL!
'average rap listeners' is not a real useful
demographic, if you are gonna relate it to
something like 'do the members of this group
know how to burn a CD'. first of all, one of
the largest purchasers of rap is middle class
kids in suburbs. guess who also tends to have
fast computers and CD burners?
second of all, the type of music one listens to has little or no
correlation with the amount of wisdom one has, let
alone the amount of technical knowledge or technical ability
CDs sampling rate is below the threshold
of human hearing and CDs suck dick.
I think you are wrong on several points...
I am a black guy listen to rap among other things, grew up in the inner city and have the skills and resources to burn CDs, been into computers and electronics since I got a VIC-20 for Christmas.
I have found geeks are no less prevalent in any demographic than they are in any other, intellectual curiousity is everywhere. Geeks in da 'hood (pun intended) just as most true computer geeks don't have the resources to get everything they wan't (otherwise I would have a Sun Starfire in my house right now) but the same curiosity that drives them to obtain computer knowledge is the same thing that miraculously guides them to get what they need by begging or borrowing. I know 6 guys who live in a house together because that's the only way they can afford a T1.
Rap music depends heavily upon samplers, synthesizers and other technologies, more so than most other types of music. I knew several kids growing up who didn't have much but, managed to get some hand me down mixing boards, drum machines, synthesizers, reverbs and other things. They didn't let poverty or lack of techincal knowledge stop them from making music, I doubt they would let it stop them from burning CDs for personal enjoyment or pirating them for profit.
Also, as I understand it white middle class teenagers are the largest demographic segment of rap music listeners. Although not near as large as the white middle class there is a minority middle class who enjoys rap music as well. I recently read an article which said rap artist Sean 'Puffy' Combs made over $50M last year. If you think it was low-income urban youth paying $35 and up for concert tickets and and buying $25 T-shirts, I think you are mistaken.
Most people although listening primarily to a certain genre of music often listen to others. Have you only purchased from one section of the music store your whole life? You might have a few friends who have a PE CD stashed under one of the Green Day CDs.
Even if you do buy into the stereotypical rap listener stuff, what would be a better market for pirates motivated by money? Inner city kids would buy because that is the only thing that they could afford, you would be the primary source of music for them, not the secondary. Middle class kids would only buy to save a few bucks, you would probably have more competition and they might have the resources and knowledge to do it for themselves.
Yeah, but Chuck D forgot that one as well.
When most of the people listening to the music (as
it is these days) don't know the name and most of
the people making it call themselves 'rappers' you
gotta forgive CmdrTaco for the ignorance.
Hip Hop, started from the street
Its not soft its a gristled beat
Rap, IMO, is a different thing from Hip Hop.
Chuck D makes Rap these days.
Listen up for DJ Krashslaughta if you want hip-hop
ZamZ
(getting older than Old Skool every day)
Mostly rap is geared towards poor blacks but where I live at least there is still a lot of middle class white people who listen to the trash. So it could still do ok. But even many of those people arent into the whole computer thing in the first place.
ps. whites listening to that negro filth is disgusting.
Although rap does express a lot of the sentiment of inner city and minority people, I wouldn't say it was 'geared' towards anyone. Was Shindler's List geared toward Jews because it was about the holocaust? Do you have to be Italian to like The Godfather? You may not like it musically or even agree with the lyrics but, not to accept it just because it 'black' music is really stupid.
I'm sure that you are some nerdy 15 yr pimple faced kid, who has no friends, lives in suburbia, has never had a girlfriend, and wears glasses. Doesn't that stereotype neatly encompasses every thing about you? Hacking is very cool but get the hell out of that basement every once and a while and meet some diverse people and experience life geek boy!
The problem with releasing in MP3 (or any other format) is that you get the limitations of that format. Whereas with CD you get very close to the original and you can take that and turn it into any format you please (and still have the original!)
Even though my entire CD collection is now in my MP3 jukebox (30GB+) I still buy CD's and wouldn't have it any other way.
Why are they charging $10 for digital music? I buy my CDs for $10-$12 (mail-order from record labels such as Nitro Records and Epitaph) and that includes the cost of pressing and mailing the CDs (there are no shipping/handling charges). Since selling digital music doesn't have those overhead costs, it should be cheaper, not the same price.
10 PRINT CHR$(205.5+RND(1)); : GOTO 10
Is that a backhanded racial slur? FYI, I'm an "average" rap listener (at least to PE) and I have the resources AND the knowledge. And there's plenty of tutorials out there to follow on the web. Don't assume that just because someone is from another cultural background that they're not capable of undertanding technology (I've been palying around with, & using, computers for YEARS).
Posted by DonR:
They Might Be Giants is doing the same thing. Their next album, "Long Tall Weekend" will only be available via goodnoise.com for download. It will be on Plain Old MP3 format, and cost about $10. From what I understand, its mostly going to be a "Previously Unreased Stuff" album.
---
Donald Roeber
--
--
=8^
--
--
=8^
Is this where I'm supposed to say "Don't believe the hype" again? We put pop stars on pedestals and expect them to put as much thought into everything as they put into their money-making endeavors. You people think he has a Debian box or something? The PE site runs on NT, methinks.
--
--
=8^
Actually they also released the single "Swindlers Lust" both as "mp4" and (later) as mp3. There were a lot of angry messages (most of them were prolly from /. ;) at the "enemy board" when they first released the single as mp4 only, and I think that's the reason why the also released an mp3.
Please alter my pants as fashion dictates.
10USD for an average CD? I must say, that's damn cheap. Here in Sweden we usually have to pay the equivelent of 20USD (or more) for a new CD.
Please alter my pants as fashion dictates.
What issue? What article? What context? In what way did Chuck D say Bill Gates is like Michael Jordan?
Bill Gates is like Mahatma Gandhi -- they both have two eyes and two ears.
Please alter my pants as fashion dictates.
New, unsigned artists who want to spread their music to as many people as possible, as fast and cheap as possible. They hope that this will give them an audience, and maybe a record deal.
Older, experienced artists who already have earned enough money from their music that they can afford to experiment with new technology. They hope that this will give them new listeners, and they probably like being a part of something New and Exiting(TM).
Please alter my pants as fashion dictates.
>how are artists/record companies going to make money selling music for just $10?
They don't gross $10 on CD sales now, since the retailer takes a significant cut. And the net is even less, with the cost of the CD, labels, etc.
Ooh, a sarcasm detector. Oh, that's a real useful invention.
While seeing support for MP3 or other form of
digital music distribution, I don't think that
online-only is the best choice. America is still
less than 50% of the households with computers,
while certainly much more than that have CD players or other audio device. Secondly, if I
just want to listen to music, I don't want to
boot up my computer to do that, and possibly
have to be online to confirm the digital signal on the file. And there still is the problem
with piracy and other online problems.
The better solution would to be to offer
the choice of the CD or the online version,
of course, allowing the CD user to download
the digital version. Also, don't force the
user to download the entire album; if PE is
selling an album of , say , 12 songs, for
$10, then sell individual songs at $1, so that
it's a deal to buy the whole album for an
savings of $2.
But again, this is probably the first venture
into true online music distribution by a major
artist, so it's experimental at this time.
Just hope the RIAA doesn't get all upset about
this.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
Prince (or "The Artist") did sell "Crystal Ball" initially only thru pre-orders on the internet. When they got 100,000 orders, it went to the duplicators. Freaking amazing bit of sales if you ask me. A platinum album even before it was released.
If they're going to charge US$10 per album download then they're definitely not with it at all. They're out by a factor of 10 or more.
The only thing that they're "with" is with the habit of extorting megabucks through the traditional music channels, and believing that it's a law of nature that they must continue to earn at this rate whatever the replication technology and whatever the distribution system.
They've learned nothing from the MP3 lesson.
"The question of whether machines can think is no more interesting than [] whether submarines can swim" - Dijkstra
As would be expected, artists are seeing the benefits of mp3 and internet-based distribution long before the recording companies.
After all, who wants to pay large slices of their profits in licensing fees and other schmuck to some faceless PR mega-institution.
Here's a story About Ice-T's newest single that he's releasing over the net in mp3 format. Interesting that rap artists seem to be some of the more vocal supporters of mp3 and free distribution.
I may have to start listening to more rap music...
illum oportet crescere me autem minui
They did release their last single in that horrid MP4 junk anyway. I hope they release the album as MP3. It's quite probably that people would still prefer to buy a CD MP3 album, since they wouldn't be wasting disk space, and they would get the extra stuff (liner notes, art, whatever) with the CD. I would. All they have to do is add a little value and people will buy the CD's. The music itself doesn not have to cost anything.
support gun control: take guns from cops
I doubt it. The fact is, the average anybody doesn't have the computer resources of an average /. reader. Please don't forget that as we try to improve society with computers-- most people aren't as privileged as we are. It has nothing to do with race.
Now, I want to get there, and make sure everyone has access to computers if they want it, so no one gets left behind. That's one reason I support open source, and why I push hard for putting workstations in libraries and schools.
And by the way, it's not a slur to call someone poor, or without resources, or without computer knowledge. Please don't act like it is; you're insulting all people less fortunate than yourself when you do so.
Respectfully,
James
james@jmarshall.com
Artists don't make money off tours. Most of them, anyway. Someone like Hole can, but most bands can't. I agree giving artists money is a good thing, but artists do make money off albums. Just not a lot, and then there's always the recoup.
One answer is better labels.
http://www.public-enemy.com/hype/index.html
Just in case anyone has been confused by the multiplicity of bogus matches for MP4 in search engines, the *real* MPEG (you know, the people who come up with the standards...like www.w3.org?) are at http://drogo.cselt.stet.it/mpeg/
Fuck Slashdot
Why shouldn't they post it as MP3 files? It's not as though Public Enemy has put out five half-decent songs in the years since Fear of a Black Planet came out about ten years ago, and even that was a step down from A Nation of Millions....
In other MP3 "news" regarding David Bowie, you'd likely have to go back to 1983 to find him mattering, unless you're a particularly tone-deaf sort.
Wake me up when someone whose career is still viable goes the MP3 route. I mean, Chuck D's a swell guy, but nobody cares about him anymore.
How about setting up an article where people could post urls of artists posting their music on the web? Kind of askslashdotish but more general. The slashdot community has an enourmous collective knowledge base, we just need to better harness it. A huge sprawling mess of comments is not optimal. Comments with scores is better but a verified and coherent summary would be more easily absorbed.
t.
Ummm okay so you want it for 6 bucks instead of 10 bucks... wtf? Damn 4 bucks can just barely buy you a hamburger these days and your crying cause they want to charge 10 bucks for a cd? And actually as you said if you want 2-3 months... why would anyone want to wait 2-3 months to save 4 bucks... god walk around the street and you will find 4 bucks laying on the ground.
--MD--
--MD--
cd's have a far greater production cost, so the price would be a lot higher for a cd. I think that's exactly why they chose this option. :)
:)
Take out the distributor et voila. Now where is all this extra money coming from... ?!?
Distributing has become the reason for us paying too much for our music. This is just some new way of distributing... wonder how long it will take for the big companies to come in and claim it for themselves?! Or these new companies to become big and do the same thing... ?!
According to the (gulp) Wired interview with him that appeared a couple of months ago, he has been sold on the MP4 format. Thinks it has better sound quality and better compression (maybe it does). I had assumed he was against the so called "secure" formats, but perhaps I'm wrong (or perhaps he's been courted by GMO).
Yes, you're wrong. What's the correlation between musical preference and computer knowledge? And, "Unless they have a guide or something" .. there are hundreds of tutorials available on the web to step a user through the process of audio extraction and encoding, of course someone that is inexperienced would use one.
Good point. I guess my background as the "suburban white boy who listens to hip-hop" maybe have skewed my thoughts a bit. And I wasn't really thinking in terms of access to a cd-burner. Guess I'm just taking a few things for granted.
In a recent issue of WIRED magazine, Chuck D said that Bill Gates is like Michael Jordan.
The guy is just a wee bit off and "Chuck D knows what's happening" isn't exactly spot-on, CmdrTaco....errr, Rob.
bAz
Atomic Pop is the label releasing the new Public Enemy CD.
The article (sorry, link didn't take) at Yahoo states that there will be a digital download, but the Atomic Pop site only mentions preorders of the cassettes and CDs.
BTW, didn't Prince (or whatever he's known as now) sell a CD exclusively over the Net a few years ago? The idea isn't new...
http://www.publicenemy.com/
-- unix is for people without a social life - Patrick van Eijk
It's well known in the music biz that the artist make there money on peripherals (concerts, licensing, t-shirts etc). Anything that cuts out the suits and gives more money to the artist is a good thing. It will only lead to better quality, more selection and lower prices. If this is successful, everyone will do it and prices will quickly drop.
In a world that is Free and Open, who needs Windows and Gates?
And if you won't wait 2 months to save 40% you're a real moron.
Hey, any time you have $4 you're not using just mail it to me. I'll pay for the stamp. Not all of us live in your land of riches.
-----BEGIN ANNOYING SIG BLOCK-----
Evan
rooooar
This might be a case where we could take a lesson from history.
... but the fact remains that, while these facts increase the amount the customer is willing to pay, they don't increase the cost --- so the resultant profit margin is much, much higher.
When CDs first became popular, it was evident that the production costs of CDs were _lower_ than the production costs of cassettes -- sure the production equipment was more expensive, but the production media was infinitely cheaper.
Yet today new CDs cost, usually, on the order of 1.5 times as much as new cassettes. Some of that is rationalized by the better sound quality, longer lifespan, what have you of CDs
Given that the recording industry was so successful getting us to pay ridiculous amounts for CDs, why wouldn't they try with online streams, too? They're just going on what they see as established fact, that music consumers are chumps willing to be screwed by a big corporation.
>Is that a backhanded racial slur?
Are you trying to infer that only black people listen to rap music? That's quite an odd stereotype to be pushing these days. Kind of like talking about how only white people play pro golf or only men like football. Wake up pal.
Accually the price has gone down. If prices had kept up with inflation we would be paying much more for cds then we do now. Though it still pisses me off that the price of audio tapes are still cheaper, considering they cost more to make. But honestly 10 dollars is what the record companies see as the intellectual (this is a stretch.. but you know what I mean) value of a cd and the extra 4 or 5 bucks totaling the cd to 15 is for extra value from the packaging, coverart, jewelcase, shipping. With the record companies artist make less than a buck per cd usually. Though with the record companies big artist where promised so make millions or records would be sold. These big artist who are breaking away from their record companies are taking a HUGE chance. And the price reflects the fact that they are very unsure about just how many copies will be sold. And honestly I would have a hard time convensing a top selling popular artist that they will be selling any more than 1/10 of what they where selling with the record companies. So they muliplied their profit per cd by 10 in hopes of making the same money. Now once this takes off and artist can be confident they will come close to sales in the days of the old record companies (they probably won't surpass it in a while considering in online music there will be so much more compitition with the little guy) they will be able to reduce their prices to what is resonable. Hopefully this will be in the 3 to 4 dollar range. So everybody hang in their, its going to be a bumpy ride. But soon, we will provail!
From the front page of Atomic Pop:
Pre-orders available exclusively on Atomic Pop for $10.00. All pre-ordered CDs will be autographed by Chuck D. All pre-orders will ship on May 18.
There is no mention of a digital format, but you do get a signed CD for pre-ordering.
They are letting you pre-order the CD on the net.
It will be available in stores later.
Exchange rates taken into account, $10 is about the same as you'll pay for an average CD here.
Basically the cost of production/distribution is shrinking, in fact reaching an all-time low - yet the end-user cost remains the same, or goes up? Someone is making big bucks here.
Oh well
Same reason spam is on the rise, and not getting less
that hiphop has been copying cutting and pasting since like 1979 - if you think about it its the perfect music for the information age...
-- your knees hurt, don't they?
Once again, Chuck D shows us who is at the fore-front of practically EVERYTHING. They broke all the bounds in the rap world in the 80s and early 90s, now they're back at it again. Way to be Chuck D!
$10 is a great price IMO, and being a huge PE fan, I will gladly pay it. Other people who aren't big fans will probably think this is a bit high, but hey, it's the market! If one of your fav bands released online music for $10, im sure you'd all run out there an nab it. Chuck has a vision, and it's a good one, he's got my money.
Now, what format.. I can only hope it will be MP3. (or any other format that works with WINAMP) If it turns out being in some proprietary format that I can't play in the now-standard MPMans, and PDAs, then I don't think I will be buying it. Sure, MP3 is non-secure from piracy, but then again, the ones stealing your music arent the fans who will be buying it in the first place. Fans stand by their favorite artists.
Pv
couldn't you all see people in #mp3 on every network just dccing the whole album around?There bound to lose money off it
I love the fact that they are releasing it exclusively on the net, probably in mp3 format, the only viable option to get good quality. However, the average joe-shmo user (rap listener) doesn't have the resources or knowledge like the rest of us to turn it into a .wav file, then burn it on a cd to listen to it somewhere else. Unless they have a guide or something, I doubt it will do that well. Thats just my opinion, I could be wrong Obiwan
The downloads section of their site has one of PE's songs in mp3 and mp4(yuck) format, and at the bottom says to view the Atomic Pop trailer for the new CD in Quicktime 3 format. My poor hotel line can't handle that sort of stress, but maybe someone else could check it out :)
o ads.html
http://www.atomicpop.com/atomicpopmusic/PEdownl
Your better solution is exactly what they're doing. The CD and cassette can be ordered from their website, or you can download it, or you can wait until June to buy it in stores. The original poster either mis-heard the CNN report or CNN once again got their technology story wrong. Either way, Public Enemy is offerring a range of choices, and the fan can choose his/her preferred format.
Just for laughs, I'm going to see just how long it takes for someone to crack this scheme (if its copy protection) or set up illegal mirrors (if its just web-based authentication)
:)
(first, btw
wasn't first after all... but its a dumb aspiration anyway.
Wired Magazine had this story in their March '99 issue. Chuck D posted MP3s of unreleased Public Enemy tracks late in '98, pissing off his label, Def Jam. Def Jam's parent Polygram "sent in the suits". In January, Chuck D released a single called "Swindler's Lust", in MP4. (ick)
- jeek (jeek@eckman.tj)
If you want to be seen, stand up. If you want to be heard, speak up. If you want to be respected, sit down and shut up.
$10 for a bunch of bytes??!!?
It used to mean that for 10 dollars you can get a record. Then the record companies introduced the CD that was initially overpriced for legit reasons. But the price never went down. Now they want us to buy MP3s that we can't copy etc for $10 an Album? No cover art, nothing that you can take to your friend house. Just the music. For something like this, the price should be $6 or maybe even less.
People think that the record companies don't like new digital formats like MP3s. I think it a dream come true for them!
r.S.