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University offers degree in game programming.
atomly writes
"It seems a British university is offering a
degree in game programming with courses like the history of
games, and game appreciation. " A class where you
compare Sonic and Mario? God yes. Makes me wish I thought
for more than 3/10ths of a second before rejecting the
idea of grad school ;)
This is obviously a marketing ploy by universities to attract "game programmer" wannabes.
Does anyone have the syllabus? I can pretty much guess it:
- Linear Algebra
- Computer Graphics
- Perhaps a section on optomization techniques, but this reduces down to more algebra and numerical methods.
- Software Engineering techniques (fairly well established for the game industry...not much room for innovation here since all game apps are graphic-engine centric...er...at least most are).
- data structures
- AI
Note how all are pretty much standard courses in every university.
Of course, in such a degree course there *is* one thing that will be of great assistance to an aspiring "game programmer": the course projects (if there are any). 99% of the learning will most likely be throguh the project...everything else is standard knowledge - every CS grad should have the necessary prerequsite knowledge to make a game.
A degree project will provide a nice single comming-together point to apply all knowledge from the diverse fields I listed above for the sole purpose of writing a game. How to use this knowledge to effectivley write games is not necessarily intuitive. Hopefully the degree is under the supervision of experienced game programmers.
I hope this isn't a standard CS degree with a couple of mandatory "game programming" courses.
There was all this hype about "Software Engineering" degrees a while back (almost every university offers them), however much to the chagrin of new students, these degrees are nothing more than the standard CS degree plus a few courses on software engineering (typically a course on requirements, another course on design, and finally a course on testing).
Aside from the history of gaming (you can find that on many websites), I wonder if they'll cover how impossible it is to be employed as a game programmer...now if the course was also a co-op one...then you have something VERY good!
But I digress, is this the stuff we want in universities? It's very...well...unworthy.
Sure, it'll make you marketable, but that's what technical colleges are for. Well...I suppose even universities have to stay competitive...
Carnegie Mellon University's School of Computer Science is arguably the best computer science school in the country. No, I don't go there - I'm in their Engineering school attempting a double major :)
SCS does have classes that concentrate on game programming. However, if you really want to concentrate on game programming, you have to work your butt off to do it - User Interface, Art, Design, and history.
Though, SCS doesn't make it a "degree." The degree is *still* Computer Science. And even if you spend two semesters on game programming, you will come out no less a Computer Scientist from this school than if you specialized in Operating Systems or Graphics Software.
IMO, this announcement is just a way to get some publicity. Any respectable Computer Science school in the country most likely has at least two courses on games and game programming: one for the programming, another as a seminar course to discuss the history, user interface, etc.
There's no shame in majoring in Computer Science with a concentration in Game Programming, as long as you get the general education to back it up.
You should never take life too seriously - You'll never get out of it alive.
When I first read the heading I though "COOL". Then I thought more about it.
Why bother? It will probably appeal to the people on the comp.games groups and the *.3d.* groups who buy a book on programming/modelling and expect to instantly know how to do it all. It isn't that simple. It takes skill and talent (and luck).
I think it'd be a much better course if it had no computer component to it, other than a final project or something like that. If you are in the course, you had best already know how to make a rendering engine for a game and through textures up there. The courses should concentrate on playability issues, supporting a game, how to reach a target audience, design issues, etc...
The final project should be no more than a running game (perhaps something to prove academic honesty as well). The grade should be based on the merits of the game, not how good the code was behind it.
Also, anyone who turns in a first-person 3D shooter with nothing else to it (quake, heretic, doom, etc...) gets an instant F.
I remember an old Far Side comic where these two parents were watching their son play Nintendo and they were daydreaming that he'd get a job one day "Saving the Princess" and "Defeating Boswer" for $50K to $90K a year. It was just a throwaway joke, but now that doesn't seem so far fetched now.
You would think, getting the 100 lives in Super Mario Brothers in Level 3 after 50 million attempts would surely be equivalent to the dissertation a Game Programming DOCTOR would face. Are we sure that this isn't just a major offered at Ziff-Davis University (www.zdu.com). Heh....
I know superhackers that got degrees of varying levels, and those that never went to college. Similarly I know jackasses that got degrees of varying levels, and those that never went to college. Their quality as programmers varies over the spectrum. There is no pattern. It's a religious war to argue the merits of educational approaches.
I work with "programmers" who I have to explain things to many times a day, for many days, and weeks later they still tell me "I'm changing random things and hoping it works", in other words, "I still don't fully understand what you told me." Then recently there was a new guy who had spent about 2 days getting up to speed on our app server software, and he asked me a questin. I explained it. He looked confused. I said "Go home and sleep on it." The next morning he met me at my cube, a "Eureka!" gleem in his eye, and said "I get it!" Haven't heard a question from him since.
He got it. The other guy still doesn't get it.
www.HearMySoulSpeak.com
This looks to be the ultimate catering to the "I only want to learn what I think I need when I'm a kid" mentality, which is about as useful as "I don't like carrots therefore they're not good for me." We tend to forget that many kids are stupid, and can't make decisions for themselves. Many make it most of the way through college before deciding "Hey, I don't want to do this." Matter of fact, lots of them get all the way through and then out into the world before realizing they made the wrong choice. Giving them the candy of "Want a degree in game programming?" is a stupid, stupid idea. I used to hang out on rec.games.programmer, and every time a new language came into vogue, two questions would become frequently asked: "I'm writing a 3D shooter in language xxx, who wants to help!" and "I'm in school and I want to be a programmer. Does anybody know schools where I can get a degree in language xxx?" You can lead a kid to college, but you can't make him learn.
My undergrad thesis was on computers in education, my first two jobs were in writing software for medical devices, and my last 3 have been eCommerce web sites. Why in the world would I have wanted to deliberately limit my choices by only learning about one of those things?
Are our brains getting smaller?
I agree completely that there is too much information to be expert at everything. I don't claim to be. But I think that I could learn to be pretty darned good at just about anything you hand me. That's what education is supposed to be about, as far as I'm concerned -- not specific knowledge, but rather training your brain to learn how to learn. I have more confidence that I'd be able to pick up game programming, then in one of these newly trained game kiddies being able to write some embedded medical software.
d
www.HearMySoulSpeak.com
Obviously it takes a person who enjoys games to make good games. But take a look at the most common games out there now: Quake III, Half-Life, Unreal, Mario64, Zelda64, Shenmue (upcoming) Dino Crisis (upcoming), etc. These games are not created on creativity alone. These are all innovative games, and incredibly complex from a programmer's standpoint. However, there are many parts which are fundamental, and needn't be reinvented from the ground up, like 3d engines, movement algorithms, etc. Such things are learned in class, and are covered comprehensively.
Furthermore, to make it in the gaming industry, you have to be fully aware of new technologies, and be able to critically evaluate the advantages of these new technologies with your older, more stable ones. A good program will also teach you how to effectively put your ideas on paper, how to break down your game into manageable, programmable chunks.
Basically, it comes down to this: there are casual, self-taught programmers that I know who are very intelligent, and very creative. However, I think they would have a difficult time trying to get a job in the industry now because their technology knowledge is fragmented. They have always followed what was interesting to them, and so there are a vast amount of topics which they have no knowledge in. Programs like this English one and Digipen prepare you for what game developers are demanding these days. This industry has changed a lot since the days of Atari and one-man programming teams.
"Ahh... The net is vast..." - Maj. Motoko Kusanagi
I just happen to be the webmaster/sys admin for DigiPen. The school originated in canada, but has since moved to Redmond, WA. I'm pretty sure we are the first school to offer a degree in game programming (officially ``Real Time Interactive Simulation''), and we also offer a 3D Computer Animation Degree.
The website is located at http://www.digipen.edu/, for the curious.
Call me old-fashioned, but I am still a big believer in the traditional liberal-arts education. My advice to the aspiring game programmer is to learn good programming fundamentals, learn to write effectively, get a good foundation in mathematics, and get a lot of exposure to history and humanities. In other words, just the things you get in a traditional degree program.
Still, I've seen several posts on Slashdot from people who work in the games industry, and I'd be interested in hearing what they have to say. How about it, guys, do you think the people coming out of this program will make better game designers and programmers? When choosing someone to hire, would you prefer them over graduates of more traditional programs?
-r
Why not just take general programming. There are a lot more jobs in that.
The official name for the lab is the "Laboratory for Recreational Computing", and you can check it out at this link.