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Linux Q3Test 1.07
ozium writes "Q3test 1.07 out for Linux. blah blah get it blah blah lose sleep. www.quake3arena.com " Finally! I've been dying, since all the different Q3's are incompatible.
For the last week or so, Linux users have been unable to play on just about all the public servers out there. I wonder how much faster this one is...
Thanks, pulled it in at 50kbyte/s :)
FunOne
FunOne
Posted by OGL:
I'd just like to take the time out to say that Quake3 really kicks ass...it's so much more stable under linux then it is on windoze...that's all I have to say...Quake & Linux forever!!!!
-W.W.
In addition to the framerate being essentially the same, I noticed the visual quality was a little better under Linux on my V2 than under Win98. In the first Windows release, the 3dfx driver had major problems with portals, light halos, and explosions while the Linux driver had no such defects. With the current Windows drivers, things are much better but I still get some ugly patterns in smoke that are less noticeable under Linux.
Both: nvidia's driver is in alpha stage
and GLX has some overhead. DRI (and time)
should solve the problems.
Second, i only picked up the precompiled
binaries from nvidia's ftp-server
(i didn't know that there is a CVS-directory.
can you give me a hint?)
Have you loaded the 3dfx module? If so, is the permissions on /dev/3dfx ok? (Be warned, a malicious user could crash the machine by poking into it)
/dev/mem for control of the 3dfx card if it can't use /dev/3dfx
Glide will fall back to mmap of
/AE
Come on on ID. Where is the Alpha port.
Sigh. I want to play to but ID hasn't
released an Alpha port.
Any otherr alpha users feeling unsupportaive?
If I had a nickel for each time I've responded to this question on 3dfx.glide.linux..heheh. If you've downloaded and installed Darryl Strauss' libraries for the V2, then all you need to change is your q3config.cfg file. There's a line in it which says seta_indga bla bla=1. Change the one to a zero, save, and start it up again. Should work. Also double check to make sure your resolutions/color bit depths are defined for whatever you want to game at. If your X11 config doesn't have modelines for 1024 and that's what you're gaming at, you'll have a big problem.
Nah all the geeks at least own 5 machines. One will be either a 8086 or 8088, the 2nd will be an old 8bit one like a C64 or Speccy, 3rd Machine will be a 386 sx of some type, then probably an early pentium or 486 100 for the 4th machine, then some stonking bastard of a machine currently. Plus they probably go to work and use a Cray as a print server.
Any im a Blood and Duke man myself.
Brad.
(prefers shooting up shops and bars than dank dingy dungeons)
They were even aware that it was an issue in 1.05, someone at id mentioned it in their .plan i'd like to run it on a box i use to do some webserving but with the CPU usage problem...
To be honest, this is the first intelligent post I've seen from Daveo (IMHO: though I haven't exactly been keeping tabs on him, either). If you take a look at his posting history, you might understand better what I mean. His quality of posts seem to have gone up since when he first started, but his spelling is still atrocious. The spelling is bad enough that it is hard to understand what he is saying and makes him look careless and sloppy. On the whole, the moderators have been following the guidelines by marking down posts that don't make sense (i.e. are hard to read) and detract from the discussion (not always the case, but his earliest ones definately did--enough to get him a base score of 0). Specifically, this may have been tagged as flamebait because his speaking in the third person draws flames.
PS to Daveo: is there some reason you post in the third person?!?
ufdraco
Actually, I happen to like my ISP. They provide a static IP, their uber-linux friendly (Unlike BellSouth ADSL) and encourage me to run servers behind my connection (unlike BellSouth, who run screaming if you even hint at running multiple machines). The 2GB/mo limit is fine with me -- Im a casual user who doesn't so much online gaming. If there's still servers for it, if I want to play a game, I'll just go on the net with good old Quake (the first one). I was just curious as to how much data a session of gaming like this would pull...
--
Dave Brooks (db@amorphous.org)
http://www.amorphous.org
I haven't looked at Q3 for linux in a while. Do they support Open GL cards yet???
I have run it at 640x480 under Win98 in a PII/233/64mem with a Riva128-based AGP card (STB Velocity 128) and it is smooth.
...
Not that anyone else has Riva128s anymore, or PII/233s...Don't laugh, I'm broke, you should see my Linux box - 486DX2/66, 16m
Check out:
http://glx.on.openprojects.net/
The FAQ mentions how to get anonymous CVS
access to the nVidia GLX module.
Hrm. I can run Quake3 fine in Linux with my Voodoo2. Windows Q3 V2 support is really flakey, it didn't even work at first.
:)., infact, you can also do this:
I can play Quake3 fine with gpm, and you just do killall -9 gpm if you want to play q2 or quake
#!/bin/bash
killall -9 gpm ;
quake ; # or your ex you want to run
gpm
#EOF
Cry me a River if you're to lazy to do that.
It's possible that the coax connection is rusty. Check.
Zoid,
Is there perhaps a way you could list some id-suggested optimizations that people can do on their linux boxen to improve performance? There are a few 'q3a on linux' pages out there, but you guys have a unique perspective...
d
...
You can get a quality Epox motherboard and Via chip set and a AMD 400 for 150.00 bucks.
Surely that isn't out of the bounds of the average person.
Your comparison of ADSL to @home cable modem service is innaccurate. @home's service let users consume as much bandwidth as they wanted until the 128K download cap was instituted. DSL specifies guaranteed transfer rates and charges a monthly fee based on the level of service in the contract. This means they can put limits or fees on volume (i.e. >2GB per month) but they can't lower your download or upload cap like @home did because its specified in the service contract.
I browse with my threshold at 2 so I can't read my own comments :-)
eh? All my tests show 1.07 is very nice about using CPU. I have a server running on my gateway Linux firewall box. With eight players on it, top reports:
21369 zoid 12 0 14640 14M 816 R 0 69.4 20.3 473:39 linuxquake3
So it's using 70% of the CPU for eight players (the box is a lowly P2-233). When there's no one on it, it consumes very little CPU.
I'm curious as to how you are running the server. i have seen problems where people use nohup to run it and it gets confused when stdin is closed (you log out) and ends up spinning on the select for stdin. Thought I fixed that tho.
I run all my servers under screen so I can get quick console access to them from anywhere.
/// Zoid.
I have SMP code written (and it seems to work well) but there isn't any SMP support in the 1.07 binary.
:)
When adding thread support, linuxquake3 became dependant on libpthreads. I didn't want that dependancy since I found a binary linked with glibc 2.0+libpthreads doesn't run on a glibc2.1 system+libthreads.
The SMP code is still a tad buggy and I need to do more testing on it.
I may distribute a seperate linuxquake3-smp binary in future builds. I'm just worried that I can't build a universal SMP binary that will work on glibc2.0 and 2.1 systems. Bummer.
/// Zoid.
I'm sorta shaken by ID's delay in releasing builds of q3test for linux and mac. I hope this doesn't become an ongoing thing with updates once the retail product comes out, considering it's paid for.
You no longer need to limit your framerate to regulate the upstream bandwidth. cl_maxpackets is what you are looking for now.
To my knowledge, the earliest version of Quake2 we saw had version 2.92 or something, so the number sare not quite as bad as they seem.
Quake2 has had 4-5 patch levels since release, QW has had about 10 versions (but it was always labeled as an unsupported work in progress).
...well think again; apparently not all of them are fragging away all the time. Check it out. I guess everybody does have to sleep from time to time, contrary to popular geek wisdom. Or is it that Quakers' CPUs are so brawny that they can run SETI@Home and Q3A concurrently without problems ?
Posted by OGL:
Oh yeah that whole 2 day delay...what a shocker.
-W.W.
I just finished downloading it from ftp.cdrom.com and found it pretty slow (~15 k/s). Those of you living in Sweden or nearby with reasonably fast connection to the net should be able to get it much faster here.
Do I need a voodoo or 3D acceleration card for this? I've got my 8MB AGP Rage thats a 2D card that I'm just happy with. No, I wont be getting 30,000fps or whatever it is...
Also: If I were to play quake3 for, say, an hour, how much bandwidth would I be expected to pull? My ISP limits my ADSL useage to 2GB/mo without imposing $.01/MB afterwards.
--
Dave Brooks (db@amorphous.org)
http://www.amorphous.org
I bet you didn't enter a network game with
several players then eh?
I'm getting nasty slow results on a P250MMX (oc'ed
200) and a Voodoo II. It runs nice and fast when
running through the level all alone but it starts
to suck bad when playing with 3 people or more.
It's JUST playable when I set everything in the
"suck" mode. (lowest res, lowest quality etc.)
that sucks! whos your ISP? what you do with your
bandwith is your buissiness, not thiers.
Does anyone have a good solution for this? Would renicing the process help or will the performance drop when running on nice level 4 or something?
q3test 1.05 runs fine with glibc 2.1.
OK, well, q3test 1.05 runs fine on my machine, which includes glibc 2.1 (Debian), so that suggests it isn't a problem.
-- i will protect you from ideals to save you from defeat
I'm Barbarian. Can't remember my /. password, and am on a different computer.
Just want to clarify, I'm not bitter about the patches. I was just speculating. I wonder if the release patches for a Quake game are relavent?
Quake1 - 1.x
QuakeWorld - 2.x
Quake2 - 3.x
Quake3 - 4.x ?
Actually it IS their business... In the Real World of Broadband it's very common to charge based on bandwidth used. It doesn't take too many ADSL lines to completely fill a T1 and T1's are still very pricey. I expect that as broadband ramps up and the ISP's costs start skyrocketing due to the number of extra lines they need to run to meet demand, flat rate pricing will pretty much go away or bandwidth will be restricted either like @home is currently doing it or by the simple fact that too many people trying to use the same line will make everyone run slower than hell.
Does it work under Windows 98 with an ATI card? I freaking HATE these hardware-specific games! I thought we left the days of DOS behind us. I guess not.
Will this Quake test run on a system with a crappy video card (ATI) at all? What exactly do I need to run it? It's got a relatively decent CPU (PII/400) but I'd like to know if it will work before I bother trying to download it.
Thanks for any replies.
All this talk of SMP had my hopes up too high.
Well, anyway, 1.07 runs much smoother then 1.05 did on the same system. I can't wait to see what SMP does for it.
Thanks and keep up the good work!
hypnotik
(I was only an egg, but then I cracked)
well its not the glibc thing I have rh6.0 and it runs fine for me. Either 2 Voodoo2 SLI or under TNT.
It has been statistically shown that helmets increase the risk of head injury.
These are NOT hardware specific games. Quake3 simply requires a complete OpenGL driver. ATI has an OpenGL driver for Win98, but not for Linux. Hence, Quake3 will work on an ATI card running under Win98, but not under Linux.
My 120Mhz i80586 runs Q3 very well compared to win32 boxes @ 200Mhz. I (re)nice q3 to -17 and use a 3dfx Monster3d to the graphics hardware. When I play on the net I kill the web and ftp servers for even more speed.
They need to change system "requirements". You don't need a 3dfx card to play in linux. You can be on a fast machine and do software emulation.
Damn win32 centric specs!
Actually it *could be a problem. I've seen some q2/q3 so's built in 2.1 that will seg fault running with a 2.0 execuable.
Please email me if you noticed this as well, I've alerted Zoid that he may have to build a glibc 2.0 and a 2.1 release. If this is true and you have mod authors building 2.1 sos for a 2.0 executable it would be bad. =)
I have been compiling the tnt drivers from the CVS server, and even with MesaCVS, it is slower than the drivers that came with the rpms pointed to on mesa3d. About 15% slower with q2. They however do fix one bug: xscreensaver gl screensavers don't flicker.
I know I will be moderated down for this, but . . . Vincent
The GLX CVS drivers aren't meant for MesaCVS, they are only (really) supported with Mesa3.0 .. try it with mesa3.0. I'm not saying its gonna be faster, but it might be.
-overlord
Perhaps you should try mesa 3.1 beta, it has
many acelerations for 3dNow!
With all the supposed improved net code, i still can't get on a server with 60 ping on my cablemodem. =(
maybe the CPU overhead is too high.
Yeah, okay. Well 1/2 of them were still LINUX servers with Q3Test 1.05
Given id's track record with patches, where the last Quakeworld one was 2.33, Quake2 was 3.20, do you think the last Quake3 one will be 4.x?
sure, at 12:09 when i see that it is there, after a annoying period of not being able to connect to ftp.idsoftware.com, someone allready beat me to it
pest (to lazy to rember pw)
Nope. ATI is a no go.
For now, Linux users are best off with a Voodoo3 -
I have an AMD K6/2 300 with Voodoo3, and it is quite nice. X windows is faster than it was with the Diamond Stealth S3-968 I had before, and I get a good 30 FPS in Q3 test. It would be higher if I had an Intel chipset, or if the Linux GL driver gets 3DNow! support.
I have a slowish connection, with Q2 I used cl_maxfps to control frame/per second, It seems Q3-test doesnt understand this... :(
Does anyone have any comparisons between Quake3 on Linux and in Windows 9x or NT 4/5? Im not talking Linux is faster because its better comparisons.. Hard facts comparisons [preferably with a p350 and ati rage pro chipset.. :-)]
Heh.. thanks
Stan "Myconid" Brinkerhoff
SB.
Much greater than 1ms differences in ping times will be caused by bandwidth (or shoddy modems, had that problem), not by CPU spead.
DISCLAIMER: this is for regular 56(? default, anyway) byte pings. I know that cranking up the packet size slows down the response (indefinite for ~65536 (don't know the exact size) to certain boxen:)
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
Thanks for the explanations, guys. I'll just go find a crowbar to remove this foot from my mouth. However, I did learn something new (and got a response from a net.demi-god:), so I'm not in the slightest upset. A little embarrassed though...
Bill - aka taniwha
--
Leave others their otherness. -- Aratak
Is there any offical word on when SMP support will be included in the linux builds? I can understand
that its probably something that no doubt requires
some linux specific code and thus is probably
sort of backburnerish after getting most of the
win32 issues sorted out but still painful to see
SMP support for NT and not linux.
-N
This is a perfect time for me to pleadingly request help with getting my matrox g200 card to work with quake 3 / linux. It works fine under windows, but in linux I get a sig 11, if anything at all, with redhat 6.0. Does matrox opengl work at all in linux? I downloaded the rpm of q3test, and it installed alright.
ul|tma -At least we all use linux-
where is daveo to download the dependencie 'glide2x.20'? he didn't see a link on the download sight. thank you to anyone who helps daveo, as he is *very* anxious to play his new quake3!!:-) # rpm -i q3test* error: failed dependencies: libglide2x.so is needed by q3test-1.07-glibc-4
-DAVEO
Just out of interest, why was this post marked down as flamebait? It seems like a valid question for someone who has never had to deal with 3dfx's glide libraries (maybe because they don't have a voodoo card).
I also wondered why the package seemed to require the glide library when I downloaded an older version, since q3test was programed with GL rather than glide (why do they include a 3dfx mesa library anyway?).
I guess some moderators don't follow the guidelines.
How do you get glquake to work with glx drivers(the opengl driver type for the tnt and g200)? It seems to be compiled to suport only the fxMesa, which is just for voodoo cards. Also, I know that qlquakeworld might work with the glx, but I am talking about single-player glquake.
If anyone has gotten glquake to work with either the G200 or Riva under linux, please tell how
Vincent
guess you weren't watching too closly which came first. Releases in order for 1.03:
MAC,
Linux,
then
Windows
with 1.03 I had a good week or so of gloating to my office mates... heh. Be happy it's here at all.
-free software's biggest threat is when people start expecting it.
Check out Kingpin for Linux -- recently released. :)
(its an unsupported beta patch, but it's a Linux binary, ok??
Oh, and Max Payne will be dope as well. Hopefully we'll see a Linux port.
Quake 3 is not over this curve; I've got a 200MHZ machine with 64 megs RAM and a TNT card with 16megs video ram and a 56k modem; sure, I'm not getting 2 ms pings (more like 200-300) and frame rates are in the 20s, not 100s, but *IT IS STILL QUITE PLAYABLE*. The same goes with games like Half-Life and Unreal.
However, as game designers continue to want to add more features, I'm concerned that they are going to forget that they actually have to make a sale to a consumer, and are hurting themselves in the end. While Unreal, for example, is playable on my system above, and given that only recently has the support for TNT cards been added, it's still well known that the game plays several magnitudes better with one of their suggested configurations: a Voodoo2 board with a 300MHZ PII processor and 128Megs of ram. Unreal came out just more than a year ago, and yet, I doubt that this configuraion can be claimed as average by consumers.
Maybe the increasing requirements for hardware are why games like Q2 (nicely playable on a low end pentium machine) are more popular for netplay than these new breads.
And what also gets me is that these game programs are getting more out of control of than more useful programs: the OS, office applications, and such. I would not be surprised to see some game in months to come to require more from the hardware than what Win2000 will require.... which really hasn't been the case until now.
"Pinky, you've left the lens cap of your mind on again." - P&TB
"I can see my house from here!" - ST:
I have the same thing but it could be mesa not glibc because q3a ran on my friends computer with a v2 but the only difference between mine and his computer is hes got the newer Mesa but he didnt change many settings so I'll post again after I test out his machine.
LBJM
Today i checked out
... an hints?
MesaCVS and glxCVS.
After fiddling with
"configure" and "menuconfig"
i succeeded in compiling
everything (with 3dnow, mmx, optimization
and so on).
But q3test was 10% slower than
the original version from nvidia.
especialy 3DNow should do some
improvments on Athlon (AMD-K7)?!
I am shure, i must have been done
something wrong
Linux started at 1.05, 1.03 was mac only public release
Some hardware sites have been releasing scores for Q3Test SMP on NT lately, such as Tresh's FiringSquad. The video card and driver seem to rapidly become the major speed bottleneck for Q3 at resolutions above 640 x 480. The second CPU doesn't come into play properly except at low detail/textures. With video card drivers and OpenGL libraries for Linux at a relatively tender stage of development and no threads in the kernel, I'm curious if you expect more, the same or less of a speed improvement in a Q3 SMP Linux.
I was running some timedemos myself on 1.07 earlier to gauge the effect of SMP. The results so far are somewhat underwhelming. I didn't take Linux results because I've only set that up to run with my old Voodoo and it has no SMP anyway. I expressly did also try a slower PCI video card to magnify the bottleneck effect.
Scores 1, 2 and 3 were timed on a Diamond Viper 330 PCI with Nvidia's 128ZX chipset and 3.37 reference drivers. Scores 4 and 5 are a Viper 550 with Nvidia TNT and 2.08 ref. drivers. Score 1 is Win98, score 2 and 4 are NT 4.0 Server SP5 with R_SMP 0, score 3 and 5 with R_SMP 1.
]timedemo 1
]demo q3testdemo1.dm3
W98, NT4, SMP, NT4, SMP
43.7 , 48.0 , 51.8 , 73.3 , 92.0 , FASTEST setting
33.9 , 34.3 , 36.7 , 65.5 , 76.5 , FAST
21.8 , 21.2 , 21.8 , 48.5 , 50.1 , NORMAL
14.7 , 14.2 , 14.2 , 20.3 , 20.3 , HIGH QUALITY
Epox KP6-BS / 2x550 Mhz Celeron(366)
128 MB PC100 / 3.2 gig DMA IBM HD
SB32AWE / NE2000 ISA
NCR875UW SCSI PCI
I usually play at NORMAL graphics setting and with only a speed improvement of around 0.6 to 1.6 frames per second depending on video card, this particular second CPU is going back to cracking RC5DES...
Michiel
I tried chmod 5755 on every library and the executable linuxquake3 but you still need to be
root to run the damn thing
It has been statistically shown that helmets increase the risk of head injury.
I actually had a similar question when we first got our T1 at work, we wanted to figure out how many clients it would take to fill the 1.54mb/s bandwidth based on the fact that people run fine over standard 33.6 modems and are really mostly blocked by latencey and not saturation. It would take some 500 users to saturate our line if we had enough servers to support that number of users, then there would still be room since they still don't use all of their bandwidth. The main differences for you is that on adsl you have more bandwidth than a modem user and more bandwidth will result in more data moved, but you are a single user and should not have any problem. In all seriousness you should not even see the amount of data moved by much of any online game unless you are running a server, and even then it's about negligable. You probably consume more bandwidth surfing the web.
matguy
Net. Admin.
matguy(.com)
... and I would appreciate some help. I was running XF86 under rh5.2, and q3test (1.05) ran very nicely there. I've since upgraded the software to rh6.0, and I'm running Gnome. q3test (either 1.05 or 1.07) fails, even though I have the same libs (I think) and definitely the same video hardware (Matrox Millenium, Voodoo2). Here are the final messages printed by linuxquake:
... THANKS!
...loading libMesaVoodooGL.so.3.1: Initializing OpenGL display
...setting mode 3: 640 480
Using XFree86-VidModeExtension Version 0.8
XFree86-VidModeExtension: Ignored on non-fullscreen/Voodoo
Using 4/4/4 Color bits, 16 depth, 0 stencil display.
XF86DGA Mouse (Version 1.1) initialized
GenuineIntel cpu detected.
Received signal 11, exiting...
Any suggestions
You're right.
Except that when quake queries servers, its only sending very small packets to determine the ping (I'm not sure if they send true ICMP ping packets or a custom ping with UDP packets). Plus when they are determing the ping in the server screen, you're not actually playing a game so there is no CPU latency there.
Cheers!
Do you mean that once connected to a game, you can't get anything below 60, or that you can't get anything below 60 in the server query screen?
If it's the second option, then believe, no change to the netcode could improve the time it takes for a ping packet to go back and forth. It really has nothing to do with the netcode!!!!!
You service provider is probably the cause. Although I wouldn't complain of a ping above 60 but still below 100 !
Has anyone successfully run q3test on a nVidia
based card?
A sig 11 is normally a sign of some sort of hardware screwup -- usually RAM. It isn't normally due to bad libs. Marginal RAM chips sometimes fail when accessed in certain patterns. It's totally random and if Q3Test+RH6 happens to use your RAM in a way that your chips just don't like, sig 11 occurs. It could also be your CPU or any other component, though RAM is the usual cause. If you're overclocking your box, stop it and try again. If it still doesn't work, you're probably SOL.
glibc2.1 v. glibc2.0, but why not check news.3dfx.com i think they have a couple groups that can give you the help you so dearly need.
asta
ps: i think there is something you can do with "compatibility libs" if this is the case, go look there for details.
A shot in the dark, you have glibc2.1 with RH6.0 and not glibc2.0.
/usr/local/quakelibs/ and issue something like
I don't know if it changes things. Try downloading glibc2.0, put it in a separate place like
LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/local/... quake3 or whatver the command is.
Kill Microsoft? No! Just hire their GUI guys!
no one erased the post, it's rating was lowered. If you turn your restrictions down you should see it.
matguy
Net. Admin.
matguy(.com)
well, i've the same configuration and i've to laun ch q3 test as root. If i launch it as a user i got sig11 to.
It could be that the purpose of your life is only to serve as a warning to others.