Posted by
Hemos
on from the but-i-just-got-my-palm-five! dept.
Bartmoss writes "According to the german computer magazine C'T, 3Com will release two updates to the PalmOS and, as 3Com-president Alan Kessler told The Business Journal, a "Palm Organizer with a color display." The article is in German; learn German or use Babelfish. "
87 comments
Color screens? whats next?
by
Anonymous Coward
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Decreased battery life? Oh, I know...translucent cases that match iMacs! Bestill my beating heart.
(Why can't they just increase processor power AND dump that damn grafitti...and get real handwriting input. They have all the old Newton talent.)
*sigh* When will there be fruition on the 'OpenSource in a handheld' front?
Re:Color screens? whats next?
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Ramalho
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That is why the Pilot is so good and its batery lasts so long. Afteral, they could put a more powerful processor in the Pilot, but that would suck up your battery and kill the device in under 24hrs. I guess we have to keep in mind that this device was never intended to be a replacement for the desktop. That combination of low processor power with a grafitti, that works well on low speed CPU's, allow the Pilot to do well what it was designed for and still last over a month on a batery.:)
Maybe some years from now.:)
Re:Color screens? whats next?
by
orev
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They won't (and shouldn't) dump grafitti until something better comes along. Grafitti is one of the main reasons why the Palm has succeeded where so many others have failed. This is explained in detail in the Palm developer's guide.
The Newton stuff never really worked like it was supposed to. It *was* getting better, but using something like that would drive up the price of the unit, and kill their market ("real" handwriting recognition takes a LOT more resources).
There's still some use for it...
by
Anonymous Coward
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He should check out http://www.geekculture.com/geekycomics/Aftery2k/ y2Karchives/palmpilotuses.html to see, what he can still do with his palm pilot.
Imagine the other way around!
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Anonymous Coward
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Imagine how it is for the ones who don't speak english!!!
I personally find it annoying that all the content is always available only in english...
Newton 2000
by
Anonymous Coward
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Well... the Newton 2000 was Okay.. it was everything a PDA should be... And it had good enough processor power..
Was just a little too bulky... Now... as you said, the positive thing is that Palm has the ones who made it happen... Come on guys! Give us the best you got! I doubt a color screen really is something usefull tough!
*My* perfect PalmPilot
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Anonymous Coward
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I don't care about color screens personally. What I would rather have in a Pilot is:
1) built in modem at 28.8bps (no clip on stuff) 2) 8 megs of ram (and 2-4 flash with onboard flashing software like is already available) 3) pop3/imap4 comliant mail program that can take advantage of the modem for mail w/o hotsync (Exchange can be used with IMAP4 mailers, btw) 4) TFTP server (servlet?) so I can carry, exchange, etc non-palm files like spreadsheets, router configs (routers can boot from tftp), etc in that 8 megs of ram. Could be accessed while connected via modem. 5)Screen from Palm V.
I believe that could be done without too much work. I'd accept a 50% increase in thickness of the Palm III style for those features. Unfortuately, the modem would kill batteries, but otherwise, power consumption would be the same (extra battery for modem?).
Those features plus what you can already get would make the perfect PalmPilot for ME.
Software-wise, I'd load AdvantGo (I love this app, just discovered it today), MobileDBlite, a doc reader of some sort, a Money manager app I use currently, GoConfig router config software, and a sketch program (for sketching out network topologies, etc).
Chris mtnbkr@mindspring.com
That is too bad
by
Anonymous Coward
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The Palm Pilot seemed to be the right balance features/battery life. It is a perfect case study of KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid). The Palm III had bare requirements for being useful in taking short notes while having an acceptiable battery life. In some cases, the technical limitations of the hardware/palmOS has been some of the key *features* in keeping battery use and memory use down. Since programmers have figured out a hack to bypass the monochromo limitation of the PalmOS calls, there have been slight larger Palm apps which support the 4 grey scale pallete on the Palm III and apps that use the 8 grey scale capablity of the Palm IIIx/V/VII/IIIe. Both backward capablity and memory are being sacrificed by these programmers. I would be really depressed if the next versions of my favority Palm apps *require* I invest in a color palm, leave me less free memory or require I get 8 Megs of memory, and run down the battery faster. From my prospective, this would be a step backwards.
Btw, opensource Palm apps tend not to have the major win that opensource Linux C/C++ applications. While the majority of Linux programs are intended to be compiled with a GPL compiler, the Palm apps tend to use compiler'isms of the Metroworks compilers. For those that invest in the Metroworks developer front end for Linux are also in the same boat since the Metroworks compiler'isms still are not supported since GCC is still used for compiling.
I agree. I guess though 3Com is having a tough time convincing people that efficiency, batery life and usable features are more important than color. Well, the VII is not colored. Hopefully they will have B&W versions of every color one. That will give people a choice between a fancy colored Pilot and a real usable PalmPilot.:)
One person told me that it is not enough for a company to have a product that is better than what their competitors have, but have also one that is just like the competition. Then they would have a colored one to make the color lovers happy and push the B&W ones for every one else.:)
Have you ever USED a NI 2.0 device? Re:Color scree
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Anonymous Coward
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You 'make a claim' that the newton handwritting 'didnt work quite right'
Have you ever USED a Newton 2.0/2.1 device?
1.X *DID* blow chunks. 2.0/2.1 was useable.
Just like graffitti is 'useable'
(Oh and REAL handwriting exists for the Palm. JOT and calligifer have releases, I believe.)
Color sounds great
by
Anonymous Coward
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as long as they can gurantee that my battery-life will be the same or better than it is in the Palm 3 I have now.
I do not think it will be much worse than the Palm III, unless they put a faster processor and kill that batery. Afterall on the WinCE devices, what probably kills the batery (this is from my limited and almost zit Palm Hardware knowledge), is the procesor. 100MHz for a palm device is just absurd. The speaker/microphone/headphone definitely does not help either. I realluy hope they keep the colored ones and the B&W ones being developed to give people a choice, mainly if this color stuff does come out to be a battery problem.
I saw this article a few days ago, BEFORE it appeared in slashdot -- in ENGLISH, printed on paper.
Computing magazine, my dad's copy. (Thing is that you have to prove that you work in the computer biz before they'll give you a subscription, or some guff like that). I'll see if I can get a hold of it and OCR the text or something. It's a full-page feature, in a tabloid-sized publication with small text, no way I'm TYPING that baby in!!
Palm colour looks like a pretty nice bit of kit actually. I haven't had the pleasure of using (or even seeing for-real) one of their machines but still, I think I could go for one of these if I had the cash. "High resolution" -- NOT 160x160 like some doofus said elsewhere in this comments section -- colour (256 only though, blah), and they're trying to get the lower battery life licked - probably by employing some gameboy color tricks or something. Hey, and I was looking for a flashy personal organiser as well...
Besides showing off spreadsheety bits and graphs (and of course, games -- probably up to lo-res VGA standard now?) to better effect, what about smoothing text using that ClearType stuff.. you know, treating each of the R-G-B pixels as a separate B/W pixel instead, to give 3x the horizontal resolution just with a little colour fringing, which can be reduced with clever software? From what I *have* seen of it I think the palm could do with that!!
So... if anyone's interested, I'll see if I can find that article... They almost definately have a website as well that may carry the article, only don't ask me for it! (Probably http://www.computing.co.uk or http://www.computing.com or something like that.)
Mark Penrice, Penners@Freenet.co.uk
Meanwhile in Windows CE....
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Anonymous Coward
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....I have a full TCP/IP stack, compact flash, 16 bit color, mpeg video, mp3 audio in stereo, headphone jack, ethernet, and all the PIM functions RIGHT NOW.
I guess the question is where do you you want to go today?
Re:Meanwhile in Windows CE....
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Anonymous Coward
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Errr..on the Compaq model I tried about 6 months ago...syncing was a major PITA! I honestly tried for 2-3 hours to get data in CSV files to import into the Palm Pilot through Outlook. And it took forever...(then again this was a P150). The Palm app was soooo much nicer, and it was fast.
Can you sync Windows CE with Linux?
Re:Meanwhile in Windows CE....
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Anonymous Coward
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Hell no. Who uses Linux as a desktop OS?
Re:If you don't see a use, look again
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Anonymous Coward
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It would also be cool to have the palm just be another IP address on my network, so an IMAP or similar process running on a linux server could sync up the mailboxes, and delete all the emails I delete on my palm.
********* You want a Windows CE Palm Size PC. They have this NOW.
Re:Have you ever USED a NI 2.0 device? Re:Color sc
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Anonymous Coward
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I get weary of these people that say this or that replacement program is better than the built-in app. Why should I load a program onto my 3x that is 115k, has a slower recognition speed and is $39 ~.13% the cost of a 3x?
Re:Color is good...
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Anonymous Coward
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Yes, keep mentioning PCMCIA for Palm, I'm already near passing out from holding my breath for www.Unilinear.com's Parachute. And let's not forget about those foot draggers at JP Systems. Color Palm? I've already put a few coats of primer on my 3x & just waiting for the local body shop to do the right PMS color match. Oh please, don't even mention www.PalmColors.com for their non-existent color cases.
All these announced products for the Palm and nothing shipping. Somebody needs to be strung up and beaten silly! These companies are missing out big time to take advantage of what, almost 5 million Palm products shipped.
No wonder I'm angry.
Re:Wow, they're catching up to _everyone_ else!
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Anonymous Coward
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Sound on the Palm? It has always been there. Just turn on the backlighting and hold the device to your ear.
I'm holding out for the clipon attachment for the Palm that plays Sony Mini discs.
Re:Oh, good buddah.
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Anonymous Coward
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I've read several articles interviewing Robin "I've never met an unknown IPO every 6 months that I didn't like" past head honcho of Palm. She mentions that the OS will be expanded to allow features that may not be seen on real Palm devices.
You talked of things you would like to see in a real Palm device. Based on what Robin has said in print, I wouldn't be surprised if some of those features showed up in, gasp! clone P OS devices. As for versioning, when there is something really different or breakthrough, does it deserve a new number? I'd have to say, yeah. The 3 was just plain better than, uh, what came before the 3? The 5 was a size issue, 3e is about market share and the 7 is a revenue stream. Though I have to ask myself how long can they hold out on the Bell South network and not adopt WAP? Hmmm... Could Novatel Wireless bring their FF down to the size of open connector slot? That would be awesome as I wouldn't have to keep clipping on my Minstrel 3 when I *need* (er, want) to surf wirelessly.
Okay with this logic, the 3x should have had its own number too. Because of the new screen, CPU, whopping 4MB RAM and disappearing memory card--I mean open slot.
Bottom line, I say license, license, license and license. Get out of the hardware business and concentrate on software. Compare the success of companies that produce both the hardware and the software against those only producing the OS software. The now/future is wireless and it's not about what you can bring with you, but what you have access to.
To those that say I'm waiting for this that and the other thing, I say keep waiting. Meanwhile I'm happily using my 3x and Minstrel 3.
Re:PalmOS...WHERE DO YOU WANT TO GO TODAY!!!
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Anonymous Coward
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I'm sorry but I don't advise using microsoft products. ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS | v Palm OS all the way.... say no to Win CE. I LOVE MY PALM IIIx but I would love it more if it were color.
Wow, they're catching up to _everyone_ else!
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CaseyB
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Color (and sound!) support are not new to the palmtop realm, only to the Palm brand.
Re:Wow, they're catching up to _everyone_ else!
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Locutus
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If they can make it so it still fits in my shirt pocket and the batteries last 4 weeks then that is GREAT. If they are going to be another bulky device that has a 1 week battery life, forget it. I like the Palm because it is good at what it does and it doesn't try to be another bloated Windows interface. Windows Everywhere is dumb. IMHO
-- "Anyone who stands out in the middle of a road
looks like roadkill to me."
--Linus
Re:Why no IIIe in Europe ?
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Jeff+DeMaagd
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Uh... You should be able to import the beasts, if you aren't terribly concerned about warranties. You could ask a local Palm distributor if they'd support warranties on imported Palms, I'm guessing not, so you'd have to ship it to the States yourself if it goes kaput. I've seen Japanese Dreamcasts in the States months before they'll be released officially.
Damn...now I can't knock the WinCE pads as much.
by
slothbait
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I always liked that the Palm was monochrome. Its useful for text, organizers, and maybe small games (chess and interactive fiction!). I see little benefit that those apps would receive from color.
Plus, the Palm platform is all about *efficiency*. One of the coolest thing about them is that a III will run for months on the same batteries. I fear that color displays and the processors to drive them will greatly increase the battery consumption of these devices, and provide little benefit.
Of course, color makes people say "ooooh, aaaaah", which might sell more Palms, but does it really help productivity? I've always knocked the wince machines for being hardware pieced together with no direct use in mind. They just don't seem well thought-out. It's as if the designers were thinking: "Cool! It's like Windows, but smaller!" That's how I think of the color displays, as well. Why does a pad need to have color? "Because my desktop system has color!"
Now, the one thing that *could* be done with bright colors is a transition to a combined portable organizer/game machine. (Heck, even Game Boy went color). I must confess, I would like a Palm that could occasionally pick up a Game Gear game or two. Of course, none could be as cool as Palm Chess, but...
--Lenny
Color will make prices fall
by
DarkNova
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Color Palms are a Good Thing, even if you don't want one, because as they become more popular, they will come down in price. This will force the cheaper models of Palms to sell for less. Once you can get a Palm III for under $100, critical mass will be reached and practically everyone will have one.
Re:Time to start saving money for one
by
otis+wildflower
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Then why didn't you buy a newton mp2000/2100?
;)
(I did, I still love it, but I'm most interested in a higher-contrast screen...)
Re:Time to start saving money for one
by
otis+wildflower
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I suppose it's less practical, but the 2100 messagepad reigns as the nerdiest PDA ever.. TCP stack & ethernet support? No problemo. Send and receive faxes? Got it. Web browser? Sure. Web _server_? Yep.
I still have this Bruce Sterling image of a guy on a motorcycle who gets pulled over by some hick cops who smash his little 'pda' with a laugh. However, that pda, size of a small metal humidor, was a wired webserver with a Slashdot-style (he was thinking of the early WELL) community. The denizens of the community then went on to wreak living hell revenge on the cops, using whatever influence they had to ruin their lives.
The point? The MP2100 with a rechargable battery pack, CDPD adapter, and solar panel could do that _today_, assuming you inline static graphics off a different server.
Besides, the MP2100 fits just fine into cargo pants pockets.. if only they were in fashion before Jobs recaptured Apple...
*sigh* I guess it joins my museum of obsoleted technology, displayed prominently alongside my Sega Saturn, Atari Jaguar, Atari Lynx, Apple ][gs, Apple//... At least I didn't buy Divx!;)
Re:Why are these $@&! articles always in German?!
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otis+wildflower
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· Score: 2
Because c't is a swell magazine worth learning German for?
;)
Re:Time to start saving money for one
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Jonathan
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But with a color screen, and a built in IP stack, now they are getting into the useful realm.
IP stack == useful, yes. But why color? Okay, it might be nice for games, but I can hardly see a real use for it.
I think I want color. I have bad eyes, I need displays that are as clear as possible
Me too. But you know what? The clearest screens I have ever used were the monochrome screens on early '90s NeXT workstations. Color monitors (even really good ones of today) are simply blurry compared to those. High resolution greyscale is more useful than color, but has less sex appeal, I suppose.
The thing I'd like to see in the palm is more screen space. Does the writing area really need to be static? It would be great if it was part of the display. Then for programs where you don't need text entry (or only occasionally need it) that area could be used for displaying useful info. Also, when selecting "keyboard" it could appear in that area instead of covering the entire bloody screen. And people with external keyboards or handwriting recognition software could use the whole screen.
Colour would be nice, but a clear higher resolution screen would probably be better. I'd like colour, but I don't think I'd really need it, especially not if it makes the unit a lot more expensive, or drains the batteries a lot.
Re: Palm guarantees are global
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Cato
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Actually, the Palm guarantee is valid world wide, no matter where you bought your Palm. One of the good things about the device.
Re:Screw color--give us wireless
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jub
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amen! even better, how about an AirPort upgrade card for my Pro? skip IR altogether...
Re:Time to start saving money for one
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Croaker
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I think color is a bit overrated. I'd rather have a much higher resolution screen than a color one at the same resolution. I would make text reading easier on the eyes, and give more space for things like web pages and whatnot.
Of course, I wouldn't complain about Color AND higher resolution...
Re:Time to start saving money for one
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Croaker
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Eh. I had an MP 100 for a while. It was a nice machine, but the form factor sucked. It was more on the order of something I had to remember to lug with me rather than something I could just slip into a pocket and forget about until I needed it.
And, of course, the cost of a Newton was too high. The Palm slipped under my Geek Gadget budget threshold (especially since I bought it as a Palm 1000, and as an unopened box return at Microcenter, so the price was steeply discounted). I could make a case to myself that I'd find a good use for it, whereas if I'm laying out the cash for a Newton, I need to know that I absolutely need it.
Maybe the later Newtons were different, but I find my Pilot a lot more usable than my Newton. Especially when it comes to synching data with the PC.
Oh my God, they've killed PalmPilot. You bastards!
by
jabber
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I think, with Jeff Hawkins gone, that the whole Palm division of 3Com has been floundering for a vision.
Dead right! It sounds like 3Com is marketing a Good Thing into oblivion. The PalmPilot has always been a cut above the other PDA offerings. WinCE, with all it's marketting couldn't squash the good design and excellent performance AND spirit of (true) innovation... Hell, they got my money (bought a Nino, and am regretting not choosing the Palm)...
Now 3Com sees just how ubiquitous and popular is PURCHASED PRODUCT is, and they're pulling a Microsoft. Fracturing the market and customer base, alienating faithful Palm users by versioning and offering replacement upgrades... Yes, the Palm costs as much as a M$ Word Pro, but that doesn't mean we want a new version every other month.
Clue to 3Com: Commit to good engineering. Keep the interfaces standard. Take a lesson from the PC revolution and make the PIECES upgradable.
I'd gladly buy a PV if I could upgrade the SCREEN to a color one. Or if I could replace one of the two stylus barrels with a wireless comm module, or if I could use lithiun or NiCad or OTS batteries. I'd make the investment if I could swap processors, add RAM, plug in a PC card for hard storage... I'd gladly buy a new titanium case to replace the aluminum one, if the guts fit. But for chrissakes, don't force me to buy a new modem and cradle every six months.
--
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
Re:Why are these $@&! articles always in German?!
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Bartmoss
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· Score: 1
Because the leading computer magazine of the planet, C'T, is published in German.
Re:Why no IIIe in Europe ?
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Bartmoss
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I think IIIx is the way to go. Forget everything Non-PalmOS. I got my IIIx two days ago and love it. The streaking is annoying but the only app that the patch doesn't work for is Dragonbane. I'll now wait for the first decent color palm, and once it is cheap enough and there's some apps that support it, I'll upgrade. As for the IIIe - I think they'd much rather sell the IIIx and remaining III units here in Europe instead. Maybe something to do with the overhead of introducing a new product - by the time they have it in the stores, everybody would be waiting for the color palm anyway? Just an idea;-)
I think I want color. I have bad eyes, I need displays that are as clear as possible. The IIIx/V/IIIe display is good. COlor would be better. As for the IIIe - I think it's not really to make money - but to generate marketshare by providing an updated "entry" model. It's much easier to keep marketshare than to take marketshare from someone else.
The resolution is fine, it's the contrast that's the problem. Compare a Palm III with a Palm IIIx and an Avigo, if you can find any of the later. The darker, less cotnrast screen of the Avigo s-u-c-k-e-d. The ultimate for me would be black on white. On the other hand, colors can even be a disadvantage, just ask anybody with a red-green weakness.
Well, whatever they do, they better NEVER go the road of WinCE - where you have to support several types of processors. That's a huge problem because one of Palm's selling point is the huge amount of software available for it.
Re:Why are these $@&! articles always in German?!
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Bartmoss
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· Score: 1
Because C't is hip and cool and really the best magazine around? I dunno. Ask them. And while you're at it, ask them to provide their newsticker in English, too. If enough people inquire, they might do it. As for the babelfish link - Yes it would be convenient. I'll try to remember it next time, but I won't promise.
I don't know - if you give them too much RAM and too much MHz, then their software will just get bloated. I'd rather continue to see slim, efficent apps like we have now.
...but higher resolution is better. 160x160 isn't a lot of screen real estate. I could easily do without color if they would crank the resolution. Of course, color and higher resolution is even better, but there are battery life considerations.
And hey, a CompactFlash Type II or PC Card slot would be nifty too(hint hint)...
I am surprised no one has mentioned speed over color. I'd love to see the Palm with at least a 200 MHz processor. I have wanted to write a PGP-compatible program for the pilot for some time now, but at the current speed, it'd be pretty worthless. Besides, think of how many RC5 key we could crack while the thing is sitting idle in our pockets (I know, I know, batteries and all...)
I do realize the current crop is not necessarily slow, but some apps do drag a bit on the Palm. Having cut my teeth on (and just having sold my last) Newton, I got offly used to the speed.
Jason Dufair "Those who know don't have the words to tell
--
Jason Dufair
"Those who know don't have the words to tell
and the ones with the words don't know too w
-- -------
Oh damn.... the Sigfile escaped...
-Great OM
Color requires more power == shorter battery life
by
matta
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· Score: 1
Color displays require more power. More RAM requires more power. More power means shorter battery life. The #1 reason I love my Pilot is its battery life (I get several months out of mine). So I won't be upgrading from my "Palm Pilot Personal" any time soon.
Re:Why are these $@&! articles always in German?!
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Figaro
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Seems that way doesn't it? It'd be nice if they'd start posting a URL with Babelfish included like this.
If that didn't come through, the URL is http://babelfish.altavista.com/cgi-bin/translate?u rltext=http://www.heise.de/newsticker/da ta/ts-22.07.99-000/&lp=de_en&doit=done
One of the features of the DragonBall CPU is that it has hardware built in to drive a 4-level grayscale display.
If they want to go better they probably either have to ignore those features of the DragonBall and add extra LCD driver hardware or just get a different CPU.
Re:Time to start saving money for one
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ccordero
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PLease call me stupid but could any one explain why is so cool that this palm has a built in IP stack?
I was just waiting for the IIIe to arrive in Europe. I thought it would be the perfect organiser for me, rather cheap, good screen powerfull enough.
But according to this article it won't be released ! So what to do ? By a Palm V (Cool and Expensive) a DaVinci (Cheap and Cheap) or stick for another yet to my paper calendar
-- Copyright 1998 arne
Verbatim copying and distribution is permited as long as
this message is preserved
Somebody please give me just one reason why my pilot needs color? Just one? I'll always remember the person who said to me "I don't want a pilot until it has 8Meg of memory. I don't know why I want it, I just do." Sounds like color is the same sort of reasoning. Saying you need a color pilot is like saying you're incapable of drawing a diagram on the back of a napkin unless you have one of those goofy fat pens that writes in 4 different colors.
Games? Isn't this the crowd that would hail Space Invaders and Pacman, two games that can be played in monochrome, as two of the best games ever written?
Aren't there enough Lynx users in this audience to understand that it's the *information*, not the *presentation* that is important? Maybe, maybe there's an argument that color can be used to get more information onto a screen (such as showing a red number instead of a number in parentheses to signify a negative on a spreadsheet). But do I really want to deal with higher price and lower battery life to get that?
Things I'd rather see in the next pilot:
Sound recording/playback. Voice reco.
More natural handwriting reco.
More resolution.
Built in wireless connectivity.
JavaVM in ROM (yes, I know it's coming:))
Not changing the form factor of the device every other generation. (I have a PalmPro, PIIIx and a PalmV and all use different cradles.)
I like my Pilot. I don't want color. I won't upgrade in order to get color. I think, with Jeff Hawkins gone, that the whole Palm division of 3Com has been floundering for a vision. The PalmIV, "Razor", was shelved (is this new color one the second coming? I didn't read the article). We all hated that they came out with the IIIx and the V simultaneously. Nobody things the VII is a good idea (too expensive). The IIIe is a stupid way to make more money. So does anybody really think that, just by saying "color", 3Com suddenly has a long term plan in place that will benefit the consumer? Or will they simply scrap that idea 6 months from now and decide that wireless is the way to go, and make a new wireless model based on one of the old monochrome pilots?
I've used the Pilot 1000, the Pro, and the III. The Palm is the best platform because of it's simplicity and speed. Why screw it up with gew-gaws like color? My 2 meg III works great, and with almost all of that 2 megs available for data storage, I used to keep two full length novels installed in it at all times. Now I download news pages instead. Meanwhile WinCE boxes need 8 megs to do *anything*.
Why are people so determined to turn their elegant Pilots into bloated WinCE boxes?
I think you are confusing resolution with color. Color does not necessarily make the display more clear. It might provide more contrast, but what else has better contrast than black on a very light background? I do not have bad eyes, so I do not know.
The IIIe is aimed at all those people who say, "I really want one, but can't justify $300". It's much easier to justify $175. Remember, most of the market is NOT super techie people who need the latest gadget, no matter what the cost.
Here is English translation:
by
savaget
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· Score: 1
No new Palm Organizer for Europe
The pen Organizer Palm IIIe introduced in the USA is not to appear according to 3Com Germany in Europe. The past model Palm III runs out in this country, so that 3Com keeps the Palm IIIx and Palm V in the supply.
The US model Palm IIIe, which is to be had US Dollar to a list price of 229, resembles the Palm III much. However the display is as higher-contrast with the two larger models and the price somewhat lower. 3Com-Praesident Alan Kessler communicated The Business journal " after information of the California magazine " meanwhile the fact that in this year apart from two new versions of the operating system PalmOS was to appear also a Organizer with color display (ts/ c't)
In order to use color, they'll have to use some different processors though. The processor in the III and the VII (Dragonball) can only display 4 shades of gray. The V (Dragonball EZ) can display 16 shades of gray. I hope that they pick a better and more powerful processor for Color. The Casio E-100 can display 65 thousand colors and looks really nice. But, Palm has the superior handheld OS.
Man, that's SO wrong. The grahpics have NOTHING to do with the CPU used. At all. Not in the least.
The CPU in the origonal game boy runs the color ones, as well as the Atari2600, ti calculators, etc (the z80). Any CPU can do any kind of graphics it wants. You could even stick an AGP slot onto one, and have it run true color, with 3d, if you wanted. any CPU will be able to handle any kind of screen.
sorry, but you are *way* off base here _ "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
why is so cool that this palm has a built in IP stack?
it may not be *usefull*, it may not be *impornant*, it may not *do anything*. but it is certnaly *cool* now all it needs is a full port of apache, (only two megs on windows, would it fit on a palm?), a digital camera interface, a linux port, firewire, and clustering capability. *then* it will be "cool"
actualy, I belive the TCP/IP stuff is so you can brows the web with your cellphone, etc. _ "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
this was some other german mag, although they did list c't as a ref c't does kick ass, they need an english version _ "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
I used to have a fat pen that could write in 10 colors. I was pretty little then *sigh* _ "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Re:Oh my God, they've killed PalmPilot. You bastar
by
delmoi
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· Score: 1
Clue to 3Com: Commit to good engineering. Keep the interfaces standard. Take a lesson from the PC revolution and make the PIECES upgradable.
How do you purpose to do that? They're way to small to just crack open the case and dick around in, not like a PC. I'v read about people soldering on new RAM chips for 16 megs, but...
I suppose you could make it *possible* for the CPU/ram to be upgraded, but most of the palm changes that I've seen have been feature wise, not speed wise. Hell I don't even *know* how fast palm pilots are! Ram upgradeablity would be nice, but I think they should use those flash cards, and the 340 meg IBM hard drive (but beware bloat on the software side, although some crazy hacker will make a virtual memory OS for it, to help there beywolf(sp?) cluster...)
Anway, I just don't think that would be to posible. how could you "upgrade" to a backlight?
and as far as manufacture's installed upgrades, I'd be willing to bet it's cheaper to manufacture a new palm then it would be to upgrade an exsisting one by hand.... _ "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Re:Screw color--give us wireless
by
delmoi
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· Score: 1
he was talking about the global wireless "infogrid", not home networking.
did you read the whole artical
this was about connecting the palm to the whole world, not just the whole room
what we need now is video confrencing. I just don't see how I can go for another minute with out a cellular videophone! _ "Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
Re:Meanwhile - CE hourglass cursors and bloatware
by
SFraser
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· Score: 1
You forgot to mention a few other, uh, benefits of CE:
* crappy battery life (as in recharge DAILY) * horribly bloated and slow OS (an hour glass cursor while waiting to look up a phone number? no thanks) * a platform that has been one of Microsoft's most notable failures this last year (such a dismal failure they just announced a "complete rewrite" of the OS to make it more like the Palm OS * Another case of Microsoft having difficulty seeing outside of the little windows-box they live in (its like the saying "if you're a hammer everything looks like a nail" - if you're Microsoft, everything looks like it should run Windows) * pathetic synchronization capabilities (my company syncs pilots over IP to java running on a server - try that with CE) * clumsy form factor versus Palm's perfect "fit in your pocket" size * high prices versus almost commodity prices (I just heard that Palm III's were available online for NINTEY NINE dollars!!!)
Sorry but the consumers have spoken, and for once the superior and more innovative technology has won. Palm was revolutionary and a risk, but the determination of its designers to not compromise anything to bloat and the perfect form factor made that risk more than worth it as they now completely own the Palm/PDA market. It has been humorous watching Microsoft try and adjust to this new market. Reminds me of their confused response to open-source.
-- -Scott
It comes down to the display
by
KevinRemhof
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· Score: 1
Kessler mentioned recently that yes, color would be coming. He also mentioned that since Palm is selling the technology to third-parties, that the first Palm color may not be made by 3Com.
3Com is making moves in the right direction. They have improved the screen on the IIIe, IIIx, V, and the VII, and have gradually made them better. Color is the latest step in keeping up with Windows CE.
In order to use color, they'll have to use some different processors though. The processor in the III and the VII (Dragonball) can only display 4 shades of gray. The V (Dragonball EZ) can display 16 shades of gray. I hope that they pick a better and more powerful processor for Color. The Casio E-100 can display 65 thousand colors and looks really nice. But, Palm has the superior handheld OS.
3Com has greatly improved the clarity of the display with their new screens. I'm sure that the reason that they've waited so long for color is to get it right.
They could call it the "Rosy Palm" and market it as a PPV - Personal Porn Viewer. You'd use your other hand to hit the scroll button.
But seriously, for the applications I use on my Pilot, color would be unnecessary. As many have said, battery life is far more important. I'm no electrical engineer, but I wonder if supporting shades of grey takes less juice than the same number of colors. Not as sexy for the marketers, perhaps, but a more practical "improvement".
Why I need 8MB on my Palm IIIx
by
miracle69
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· Score: 1
I'm probably an atypical/. reader. I'm in my third year of medical school. I recently purchased a IIIx (over the III) for one reason - the 5 minute clinical consult. After investigating the company that puts out this great product (the demo kicks ass if you're in the medical field), I found that they also had a drug program, and are about to introduce a drug-interaction program. These are well-written and niceley designed programs that will replace the multitude of books that fill my short-coat jacket. My last weight on my jacket? 10 pounds. Wear that for a couple of 18 hour shifts, or a couple of 48 hour benders, and it makes all the difference in the world.
My problem? The drug interaction book and the 5 minute clinical consult use 4.5 mb of memory. I've been investigating www.trgnet.com because they have 8mb memory upgrades - including one with a 2mb flash. I'm considering buying it so that I can have the programs I need. Other than that, I love my palm. (And it loves me too...)
But for these uses, I wouldn't need anything greater than 2mb. But, these infobooks are great and really showcase the muscle of handheld computers.
Has anyone had any experience with the products at trgnet.com, specifically for the IIIx? Installation ease? Battery life estimates? Compatibility problems?
-- Linux - Because Mommy taught me to Share.
Why are these $@&! articles always in German?!
by
El+Volio
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· Score: 0
Babelfish is cool and everything, but I am getting really tired of having to do this...
--
"You can never have too many elephants on your team."
Re:Why are these $@&! articles always in German?!
by
El+Volio
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· Score: 1
Maybe I should have been clearer. I am not an "English-language chauvinist" -- I speak fluent Spanish, and that is the primary language in which my wife and I communicate, since that is what is easiest for her and I do just fine with it.
What I mean is, why does so much cool news like this come out only in C'T? One would think that the American tech press would pick up on some of this...
And yes, including the link to the article through Babelfish (as another poster pointed out) would be so much easier.
--
"You can never have too many elephants on your team."
Re:Why are these $@&! articles always in German?!
by
Emil+Brink
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· Score: 1
Um, because c't is a German magazine, perhaps? Prefering to use their native tongue is probably at least as common outside of English-speaking countries as it is within them.
Re:Oh my God, they've killed PalmPilot. You bastar
by
rastan
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· Score: 1
Hmm, about the PalmPilot compared to other PDAs: It might be better than most of them, but certainly not better than the Newton. At least, if you have a closer look, it really seems to be a reduced Newton. No handwriting recogn., smaller screen, no rechargeable batteries. Internal concepts and even the DevEnv are *very* similar. OK, smaller size is nicer, and it's recognition is faster, but I want to have my assistant learn *my* language, not the other way round.
-- Understanding is a three-edged sword. --Kosh
Time to start saving money for one
by
anticypher
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· Score: 2
I've used palms a few times, and I cant see all that much use to them.
But with a color screen, and a built in IP stack, now they are getting into the useful realm.
Can't wait. Hurry up, 3Com!
the AC
-- Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
Re:If you don't see a use, look again
by
anticypher
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· Score: 2
Actually, I am going to look again. Everyone around me uses them at this point, so there has to be something there.
I'm a bit jaded because I used one of the original ones a few years ago, and there wasn't enough good stuff on it to keep using it. Lately I've been using a V, which is much nicer. It would make a nice activity organiser, and I suppose I could get my act together and enter all my phone numbers into something on a PC and DL it to the palm. But since I carry a Nokia phone with 200+ entries in it already, the palm wouldn't get used all that much.
The thing that turned me off earlier was the lack of connectivity to anything other than mac and windoze. Now there are lots more linux drivers to do the same thing, so that point is gone.
The best app I could think of would be to have a mailbox which could get DLed every so often, either through infrared or docking or a low power wireless connection. I get hundreds of emails a day, and there is always down time during the day when I could be reading through all of them. But the palm would need 8Mb of storage just to hold a few days worth of my emails (attachments could be left behind).
It would also be cool to have the palm just be another IP address on my network, so an IMAP or similar process running on a linux server could sync up the mailboxes, and delete all the emails I delete on my palm.
Color is useful for highlighting important objects on the screen. I wouldn't care if it dragged the batteries down a little faster, if I could get recharging docks at work, home, in the car, etc.
Didn't mean to be a troll, I'll probably have one before Christmas (or as soon as a color one comes out)
the AC
-- Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
Re:If you don't see a use, look again
by
anticypher
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· Score: 2
I do not want a wince machine. Tried them, they have crossed the line of bloat, and don't seem to have the nice integrated feel of a palm.
I did have a wince machine for a while with a Proxim wireless lan, and the connectivity was cool, but the apps were pure winblows and the machine kept crashing every little while.
the AC
-- Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
Screw color--give us wireless
by
Tincan
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· Score: 1
I refuse to believe that I am the only one that sees a trend in the history of technology, but why do we have to re-invent the wheel everytime technology takes on a new face? First we get telephones... everyone loves them. Then we get cordless phones that you can use within a few hundred feet of the house. Then we get cellular phones and everybody and their mother has one. We get pagers too--they are one step below a cell phone. People want mobility and flexibility. Why have a regular phone when you can walk and talk anywhere? Not just in the same neighborhood but in the same state/nation/hemisphere/planet.
It should be clear that computing is destined to take the same course. We get PCs on our desks and then we get laptops for travel (equivalent to pagers and cordless phones). As consumers we demanded palm pilots. Shouldn't it be logical now that computing enters the "cell phone" age in the technology evolution scale? We are only a few steps away from a Star Trek vision where one can have a palm pilot and available, massive wireless networks that make PCs and modems look like the stone age.
Found something on the web about a guy who ran over his Palm Pilot...he's got pictures and a complete story... http://www.elness.com/palmv_dead.html
--
"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gautier
If you don't see a use, look again
by
orev
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· Score: 1
If you talk to anyone who has used a Palm in their daily life, they will tell you that they will never, ever give it up. These things have a tremendous amount of use.
Saying something like this almost seems like a troll.
Adding either of these increases the cost of the unit, which is another of the main reasons that it's doing so well. In addition, it's not really needed. Most people don't even come close to filling up their memory (power user excepted, of course).
Re:Have you ever USED a NI 2.0 device? Re:Color sc
by
orev
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· Score: 1
The difference is that "real" handwriting recognition requires a LOT more processing power than grafitti does. Putting a processor that could handle that task would increase the price by at least $100, and would provide a very small return. Grafitti takes about 15 mniutes to learn. If you need to enter large amounts of data, you use a keyboard on your PC, then sync it in.
I admit I've never tried JOT or the other replacements for grafitti, but this is probably because I am perfectly content with grafitti, and don't see any need to change. You're not going to be much faster than grafitti than any other form of handwriting. How fast can you write on a peice of paper as compared to typing?
I couldn't agree with you more, that color, from a technical standpoint, is not warranted. However, from a marketing standpoint, it is necessary to maintain dominance. WinCE machines are coming out with color. You and I don't care about this, because we know that we don't need it. But, the average consumer is going to "ooh" and "ahh" at the color screens, and buy them first, because they look pretty.
Most of the time, the average consumer doesn't know what their needs are, and just buy the thing with most features, not stopping to think if they really need all of them.
As a Palm champion, this type of thing is a necessary marketing move, which will hopefully allow them to keep MS out of the market in force.
Slashdot Mirror
Decreased battery life?
Oh, I know...translucent cases that match iMacs!
Bestill my beating heart.
(Why can't they just increase processor power AND dump that damn grafitti...and get real handwriting input. They have all the old Newton talent.)
*sigh* When will there be fruition on the 'OpenSource in a handheld' front?
He should check out/ y2Karchives/palmpilotuses.html
http://www.geekculture.com/geekycomics/Aftery2k
to see, what he can still do with his palm pilot.
Imagine how it is for the ones who don't speak english!!!
I personally find it annoying that all the content is always available only in english...
Well... the Newton 2000 was Okay..
it was everything a PDA should be...
And it had good enough processor power..
Was just a little too bulky...
Now... as you said, the positive thing is that Palm has the ones who made it happen...
Come on guys! Give us the best you got!
I doubt a color screen really is something usefull tough!
I don't care about color screens personally. What I would rather have in a Pilot is:
1) built in modem at 28.8bps (no clip on stuff)
2) 8 megs of ram (and 2-4 flash with onboard flashing software like is already available)
3) pop3/imap4 comliant mail program that can take advantage of the modem for mail w/o hotsync (Exchange can be used with IMAP4 mailers, btw)
4) TFTP server (servlet?) so I can carry, exchange, etc non-palm files like spreadsheets, router configs (routers can boot from tftp), etc in that 8 megs of ram. Could be accessed while connected via modem.
5)Screen from Palm V.
I believe that could be done without too much work. I'd accept a 50% increase in thickness of the Palm III style for those features. Unfortuately, the modem would kill batteries, but otherwise, power consumption would be the same (extra battery for modem?).
Those features plus what you can already get would make the perfect PalmPilot for ME.
Software-wise, I'd load AdvantGo (I love this app, just discovered it today), MobileDBlite, a doc reader of some sort, a Money manager app I use currently, GoConfig router config software, and a sketch program (for sketching out network topologies, etc).
Chris
mtnbkr@mindspring.com
The Palm Pilot seemed to be the right balance features/battery life. It is a perfect case study of KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid). The Palm III had bare requirements for being useful in taking short notes while having an acceptiable battery life. In some cases, the technical limitations of the hardware/palmOS has been some of the key *features* in keeping battery use and memory use down. Since programmers have figured out a hack to bypass the monochromo limitation of the PalmOS calls, there have been slight larger Palm apps which support the 4 grey scale pallete on the Palm III and apps that use the 8 grey scale capablity of the Palm IIIx/V/VII/IIIe. Both backward capablity and memory are being sacrificed by these programmers. I would be really depressed if the next versions of my favority Palm apps *require* I invest in a color palm, leave me less free memory or require I get 8 Megs of memory, and run down the battery faster. From my prospective, this would be a step backwards.
Btw, opensource Palm apps tend not to have the major win that opensource Linux C/C++ applications. While the majority of Linux programs are intended to be compiled with a GPL compiler, the Palm apps tend to use compiler'isms of the Metroworks compilers. For those that invest in the Metroworks developer front end for Linux are also in the same boat since the Metroworks compiler'isms still are not supported since GCC is still used for compiling.
You 'make a claim' that the newton handwritting 'didnt work quite right'
Have you ever USED a Newton 2.0/2.1 device?
1.X *DID* blow chunks.
2.0/2.1 was useable.
Just like graffitti is 'useable'
(Oh and REAL handwriting exists for the Palm. JOT and calligifer have releases, I believe.)
as long as they can gurantee that my battery-life will be the same or better than it is in the Palm 3 I have now.
I saw this article a few days ago, BEFORE it appeared in slashdot -- in ENGLISH, printed on paper.
Computing magazine, my dad's copy. (Thing is that you have to prove that you work in the computer biz before they'll give you a subscription, or some guff like that). I'll see if I can get a hold of it and OCR the text or something. It's a full-page feature, in a tabloid-sized publication with small text, no way I'm TYPING that baby in!!
Palm colour looks like a pretty nice bit of kit actually. I haven't had the pleasure of using (or even seeing for-real) one of their machines but still, I think I could go for one of these if I had the cash. "High resolution" -- NOT 160x160 like some doofus said elsewhere in this comments section -- colour (256 only though, blah), and they're trying to get the lower battery life licked - probably by employing some gameboy color tricks or something. Hey, and I was looking for a flashy personal organiser as well...
Besides showing off spreadsheety bits and graphs (and of course, games -- probably up to lo-res VGA standard now?) to better effect, what about smoothing text using that ClearType stuff.. you know, treating each of the R-G-B pixels as a separate B/W pixel instead, to give 3x the horizontal resolution just with a little colour fringing, which can be reduced with clever software? From what I *have* seen of it I think the palm could do with that!!
So... if anyone's interested, I'll see if I can find that article... They almost definately have a website as well that may carry the article, only don't ask me for it! (Probably
http://www.computing.co.uk
or
http://www.computing.com
or something like that.)
Mark Penrice, Penners@Freenet.co.uk
....I have a full TCP/IP stack, compact flash, 16 bit color, mpeg video, mp3 audio in stereo, headphone jack, ethernet, and all the PIM functions RIGHT NOW.
I guess the question is where do you you want to go today?
It would also be cool to have the palm just be another IP address on my network, so an IMAP or similar process running on a linux server could sync up the mailboxes, and delete all the emails I delete on my palm.
*********
You want a Windows CE Palm Size PC. They have this NOW.
I get weary of these people that say this or that replacement program is better than the built-in app. Why should I load a program onto my 3x that is 115k, has a slower recognition speed and is $39 ~.13% the cost of a 3x?
Yes, keep mentioning PCMCIA for Palm, I'm already near passing out from holding my breath for www.Unilinear.com's Parachute. And let's not forget about those foot draggers at JP Systems. Color Palm? I've already put a few coats of primer on my 3x & just waiting for the local body shop to do the right PMS color match. Oh please, don't even mention www.PalmColors.com for their non-existent color cases.
All these announced products for the Palm and nothing shipping. Somebody needs to be strung up and beaten silly! These companies are missing out big time to take advantage of what, almost 5 million Palm products shipped.
No wonder I'm angry.
Sound on the Palm? It has always been there. Just turn on the backlighting and hold the device to your ear.
I'm holding out for the clipon attachment for the Palm that plays Sony Mini discs.
I've read several articles interviewing Robin "I've never met an unknown IPO every 6 months that I didn't like" past head honcho of Palm. She mentions that the OS will be expanded to allow features that may not be seen on real Palm devices.
You talked of things you would like to see in a real Palm device. Based on what Robin has said in print, I wouldn't be surprised if some of those features showed up in, gasp! clone P OS devices. As for versioning, when there is something really different or breakthrough, does it deserve a new number? I'd have to say, yeah. The 3 was just plain better than, uh, what came before the 3? The 5 was a size issue, 3e is about market share and the 7 is a revenue stream. Though I have to ask myself how long can they hold out on the Bell South network and not adopt WAP? Hmmm... Could Novatel Wireless bring their FF down to the size of open connector slot? That would be awesome as I wouldn't have to keep clipping on my Minstrel 3 when I *need* (er, want) to surf wirelessly.
Okay with this logic, the 3x should have had its own number too. Because of the new screen, CPU, whopping 4MB RAM and disappearing memory card--I mean open slot.
Bottom line, I say license, license, license and license. Get out of the hardware business and concentrate on software. Compare the success of companies that produce both the hardware and the software against those only producing the OS software. The now/future is wireless and it's not about what you can bring with you, but what you have access to.
To those that say I'm waiting for this that and the other thing, I say keep waiting. Meanwhile I'm happily using my 3x and Minstrel 3.
I'm sorry but I don't advise using microsoft products. ALL I HAVE TO SAY IS | v Palm OS all the way.... say no to Win CE. I LOVE MY PALM IIIx but I would love it more if it were color.
Color (and sound!) support are not new to the palmtop realm, only to the Palm brand.
Uh... You should be able to import the beasts, if you aren't terribly concerned about warranties. You could ask a local Palm distributor if they'd support warranties on imported Palms, I'm guessing not, so you'd have to ship it to the States yourself if it goes kaput. I've seen Japanese Dreamcasts in the States months before they'll be released officially.
I always liked that the Palm was monochrome. Its useful for text, organizers, and maybe small games (chess and interactive fiction!). I see little benefit that those apps would receive from color.
Plus, the Palm platform is all about *efficiency*. One of the coolest thing about them is that a III will run for months on the same batteries. I fear that color displays and the processors to drive them will greatly increase the battery consumption of these devices, and provide little benefit.
Of course, color makes people say "ooooh, aaaaah", which might sell more Palms, but does it really help productivity? I've always knocked the wince machines for being hardware pieced together with no direct use in mind. They just don't seem well thought-out. It's as if the designers were thinking: "Cool! It's like Windows, but smaller!" That's how I think of the color displays, as well. Why does a pad need to have color? "Because my desktop system has color!"
Now, the one thing that *could* be done with bright colors is a transition to a combined portable organizer/game machine. (Heck, even Game Boy went color). I must confess, I would like a Palm that could occasionally pick up a Game Gear game or two. Of course, none could be as cool as Palm Chess, but...
--Lenny
Color Palms are a Good Thing, even if you don't want one, because as they become more popular, they will come down in price. This will force the cheaper models of Palms to sell for less. Once you can get a Palm III for under $100, critical mass will be reached and practically everyone will have one.
Then why didn't you buy a newton mp2000/2100?
;)
(I did, I still love it, but I'm most interested in a higher-contrast screen...)
I suppose it's less practical, but the 2100 messagepad reigns as the nerdiest PDA ever.. TCP stack & ethernet support? No problemo. Send and receive faxes? Got it. Web browser? Sure. Web _server_? Yep.
//... At least I didn't buy Divx! ;)
I still have this Bruce Sterling image of a guy on a motorcycle who gets pulled over by some hick cops who smash his little 'pda' with a laugh. However, that pda, size of a small metal humidor, was a wired webserver with a Slashdot-style (he was thinking of the early WELL) community. The denizens of the community then went on to wreak living hell revenge on the cops, using whatever influence they had to ruin their lives.
The point? The MP2100 with a rechargable battery pack, CDPD adapter, and solar panel could do that _today_, assuming you inline static graphics off a different server.
Besides, the MP2100 fits just fine into cargo pants pockets.. if only they were in fashion before Jobs recaptured Apple...
*sigh* I guess it joins my museum of obsoleted technology, displayed prominently alongside my Sega Saturn, Atari Jaguar, Atari Lynx, Apple ][gs, Apple
Because c't is a swell magazine worth learning German for?
;)
But with a color screen, and a built in IP stack, now they are getting into the useful realm.
IP stack == useful, yes. But why color? Okay, it might be nice for games, but I can hardly see a real use for it.
I think I want color. I have bad eyes, I need displays that are as clear as possible
Me too. But you know what? The clearest screens I have ever used were the monochrome screens on early '90s NeXT workstations. Color monitors (even really good ones of today) are simply blurry compared to those. High resolution greyscale is more useful than color, but has less sex appeal, I suppose.
The thing I'd like to see in the palm is more screen space. Does the writing area really need to be static? It would be great if it was part of the display. Then for programs where you don't need text entry (or only occasionally need it) that area could be used for displaying useful info.
Also, when selecting "keyboard" it could appear in that area instead of covering the entire bloody screen. And people with external keyboards or handwriting recognition software could use the whole screen.
Colour would be nice, but a clear higher resolution screen would probably be better. I'd like colour, but I don't think I'd really need it, especially not if it makes the unit a lot more expensive, or drains the batteries a lot.
Actually, the Palm guarantee is valid world wide, no matter where you bought your Palm. One of the good things about the device.
amen! even better, how about an AirPort upgrade card for my Pro? skip IR altogether...
I think color is a bit overrated. I'd rather have a much higher resolution screen than a color one at the same resolution. I would make text reading easier on the eyes, and give more space for things like web pages and whatnot.
Of course, I wouldn't complain about Color AND higher resolution...
Eh. I had an MP 100 for a while. It was a nice machine, but the form factor sucked. It was more on the order of something I had to remember to lug with me rather than something I could just slip into a pocket and forget about until I needed it.
And, of course, the cost of a Newton was too high. The Palm slipped under my Geek Gadget budget threshold (especially since I bought it as a Palm 1000, and as an unopened box return at Microcenter, so the price was steeply discounted). I could make a case to myself that I'd find a good use for it, whereas if I'm laying out the cash for a Newton, I need to know that I absolutely need it.
Maybe the later Newtons were different, but I find my Pilot a lot more usable than my Newton. Especially when it comes to synching data with the PC.
*sigh* When will there be fruition on the 'OpenSource in a handheld' front?
There are a growing number of Free applications for the PalmPilot. Check out my page at
http://blevins.simplenet.com/palm/
Also, see openhandheld.org
-Mitch
I think, with Jeff Hawkins gone, that the whole Palm division of 3Com has been floundering for a vision.
Dead right! It sounds like 3Com is marketing a Good Thing into oblivion. The PalmPilot has always been a cut above the other PDA offerings. WinCE, with all it's marketting couldn't squash the good design and excellent performance AND spirit of (true) innovation... Hell, they got my money (bought a Nino, and am regretting not choosing the Palm)...
Now 3Com sees just how ubiquitous and popular is PURCHASED PRODUCT is, and they're pulling a Microsoft. Fracturing the market and customer base, alienating faithful Palm users by versioning and offering replacement upgrades... Yes, the Palm costs as much as a M$ Word Pro, but that doesn't mean we want a new version every other month.
Clue to 3Com: Commit to good engineering. Keep the interfaces standard. Take a lesson from the PC revolution and make the PIECES upgradable.
I'd gladly buy a PV if I could upgrade the SCREEN to a color one. Or if I could replace one of the two stylus barrels with a wireless comm module, or if I could use lithiun or NiCad or OTS batteries.
I'd make the investment if I could swap processors, add RAM, plug in a PC card for hard storage... I'd gladly buy a new titanium case to replace the aluminum one, if the guts fit. But for chrissakes, don't force me to buy a new modem and cradle every six months.
-- What you do today will cost you a day of your life.
Because the leading computer magazine of the planet, C'T, is published in German.
I think IIIx is the way to go. Forget everything Non-PalmOS. I got my IIIx two days ago and love it. The streaking is annoying but the only app that the patch doesn't work for is Dragonbane. ;-)
I'll now wait for the first decent color palm, and once it is cheap enough and there's some apps that support it, I'll upgrade.
As for the IIIe - I think they'd much rather sell the IIIx and remaining III units here in Europe instead. Maybe something to do with the overhead of introducing a new product - by the time they have it in the stores, everybody would be waiting for the color palm anyway? Just an idea
I think I want color. I have bad eyes, I need displays that are as clear as possible. The IIIx/V/IIIe display is good. COlor would be better.
As for the IIIe - I think it's not really to make money - but to generate marketshare by providing an updated "entry" model. It's much easier to keep marketshare than to take marketshare from someone else.
The resolution is fine, it's the contrast that's
the problem. Compare a Palm III with a Palm IIIx and an Avigo, if you can find any of the later.
The darker, less cotnrast screen of the Avigo s-u-c-k-e-d. The ultimate for me would be black on white.
On the other hand, colors can even be a disadvantage, just ask anybody with a red-green weakness.
People aren't... or has Palm actually lost marketshare recently?
Well, whatever they do, they better NEVER go the road of WinCE - where you have to support several types of processors. That's a huge problem because one of Palm's selling point is the huge amount of software available for it.
Because C't is hip and cool and really the best magazine around? I dunno. Ask them. And while you're at it, ask them to provide their newsticker in English, too. If enough people inquire, they might do it.
As for the babelfish link - Yes it would be convenient. I'll try to remember it next time, but I won't promise.
I don't know - if you give them too much RAM and too much MHz, then their software will just get bloated. I'd rather continue to see slim, efficent apps like we have now.
...but higher resolution is better. 160x160 isn't a lot of screen real estate. I could easily do without color if they would crank the resolution. Of course, color and higher resolution is even better, but there are battery life considerations.
And hey, a CompactFlash Type II or PC Card slot would be nifty too(hint hint)...
--John Riney
jwriney@awod.com
There are also sound cards, Ethernet adapters, modems, GPSs, etc, that come in both formats. That's more like what I'm talking about.
--John Riney
jwriney@awod.com
I am surprised no one has mentioned speed over color. I'd love to see the Palm with at least a 200 MHz processor. I have wanted to write a PGP-compatible program for the pilot for some time now, but at the current speed, it'd be pretty worthless. Besides, think of how many RC5 key we could crack while the thing is sitting idle in our pockets (I know, I know, batteries and all...)
I do realize the current crop is not necessarily slow, but some apps do drag a bit on the Palm. Having cut my teeth on (and just having sold my last) Newton, I got offly used to the speed.
Jason Dufair
"Those who know don't have the words to tell
Jason Dufair
"Those who know don't have the words to tell
and the ones with the words don't know too w
that should work.
------- Oh damn.... the Sigfile escaped... -Great OM
Color displays require more power. More RAM requires more power. More power means shorter battery life. The #1 reason I love my Pilot is its battery life (I get several months out of mine). So I won't be upgrading from my "Palm Pilot Personal" any time soon.
Seems that way doesn't it? It'd be nice if they'd start posting a URL with Babelfish included like this.
u rltext=http://www.heise.de/newsticker/da ta/ts-22.07.99-000/&lp=de_en&doit=done
If that didn't come through, the URL is http://babelfish.altavista.com/cgi-bin/translate?
:wq
One of the features of the DragonBall CPU is that it has hardware built in to drive a 4-level grayscale display.
If they want to go better they probably either have to ignore those features of the DragonBall and add extra LCD driver hardware or just get a different CPU.
PLease call me stupid but could any one explain why is so cool that this palm has a built in IP stack?
examples?
sorry!!
I use a palm but i just don't see it. thanks
c.
I was just waiting for the IIIe to arrive in Europe. I thought it would be the perfect organiser for me, rather cheap, good screen powerfull enough.
But according to this article it won't be released ! So what to do ? By a Palm V (Cool and Expensive) a DaVinci (Cheap and Cheap) or stick for another yet to my paper calendar
Copyright 1998 arne Verbatim copying and distribution is permited as long as this message is preserved
Games? Isn't this the crowd that would hail Space Invaders and Pacman, two games that can be played in monochrome, as two of the best games ever written?
Aren't there enough Lynx users in this audience to understand that it's the *information*, not the *presentation* that is important? Maybe, maybe there's an argument that color can be used to get more information onto a screen (such as showing a red number instead of a number in parentheses to signify a negative on a spreadsheet). But do I really want to deal with higher price and lower battery life to get that?
Things I'd rather see in the next pilot:
- Sound recording/playback. Voice reco.
- More natural handwriting reco.
- More resolution.
- Built in wireless connectivity.
- JavaVM in ROM (yes, I know it's coming
:)) - Not changing the form factor of the device every other generation. (I have a PalmPro, PIIIx and a PalmV and all use different cradles.)
I like my Pilot. I don't want color. I won't upgrade in order to get color. I think, with Jeff Hawkins gone, that the whole Palm division of 3Com has been floundering for a vision. The PalmIV, "Razor", was shelved (is this new color one the second coming? I didn't read the article). We all hated that they came out with the IIIx and the V simultaneously. Nobody things the VII is a good idea (too expensive). The IIIe is a stupid way to make more money. So does anybody really think that, just by saying "color", 3Com suddenly has a long term plan in place that will benefit the consumer? Or will they simply scrap that idea 6 months from now and decide that wireless is the way to go, and make a new wireless model based on one of the old monochrome pilots?d
www.HearMySoulSpeak.com
No new Palm Organizer for Europe
The pen Organizer Palm IIIe introduced in the USA is not to appear according to 3Com Germany in Europe. The past model Palm III runs out in this country, so that 3Com keeps the Palm IIIx and Palm V in the supply.
The US model Palm IIIe, which is to be had US Dollar to a list price of 229, resembles the Palm III much. However the display is as higher-contrast with the two larger models and the price somewhat lower. 3Com-Praesident Alan Kessler communicated The Business journal " after information of the California magazine " meanwhile the fact that in this year apart from two new versions of the operating system PalmOS was to appear also a Organizer with color display (ts/ c't)
In order to use color, they'll have to use some different processors though. The processor in the III and the VII (Dragonball) can only display 4 shades of gray. The V (Dragonball EZ) can display 16 shades of gray. I hope that they pick a better and more powerful processor for Color. The Casio E-100 can display 65 thousand colors and looks really nice. But, Palm has the superior handheld OS.
Man, that's SO wrong. The grahpics have NOTHING to do with the CPU used. At all. Not in the least.
The CPU in the origonal game boy runs the color ones, as well as the Atari2600, ti calculators, etc (the z80). Any CPU can do any kind of graphics it wants. You could even stick an AGP slot onto one, and have it run true color, with 3d, if you wanted. any CPU will be able to handle any kind of screen.
sorry, but you are *way* off base here
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
why is so cool that this palm has a built in IP stack?
it may not be *usefull*, it may not be *impornant*, it may not *do anything*. but it is certnaly *cool*
now all it needs is a full port of apache, (only two megs on windows, would it fit on a palm?), a digital camera interface, a linux port, firewire, and clustering capability. *then* it will be "cool"
actualy, I belive the TCP/IP stuff is so you can brows the web with your cellphone, etc.
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
the title speaks for itself.
this was some other german mag, although they did list c't as a ref
c't does kick ass, they need an english version
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
I used to have a fat pen that could write in 10 colors. I was pretty little then *sigh*
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Clue to 3Com: Commit to good engineering. Keep the interfaces standard. Take a lesson from the PC revolution and make the PIECES upgradable.
How do you purpose to do that? They're way to small to just crack open the case and dick around in, not like a PC. I'v read about people soldering on new RAM chips for 16 megs, but...
I suppose you could make it *possible* for the CPU/ram to be upgraded, but most of the palm changes that I've seen have been feature wise, not speed wise. Hell I don't even *know* how fast palm pilots are! Ram upgradeablity would be nice, but I think they should use those flash cards, and the 340 meg IBM hard drive (but beware bloat on the software side, although some crazy hacker will make a virtual memory OS for it, to help there beywolf(sp?) cluster...)
Anway, I just don't think that would be to posible. how could you "upgrade" to a backlight?
and as far as manufacture's installed upgrades, I'd be willing to bet it's cheaper to manufacture a new palm then it would be to upgrade an exsisting one by hand....
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
he was talking about the global wireless "infogrid", not home networking.
did you read the whole artical
this was about connecting the palm to the whole world, not just the whole room
what we need now is video confrencing. I just don't see how I can go for another minute with out a cellular videophone!
_
"Subtle mind control? Why do all these HTML buttons say 'Submit' ?"
ReadThe ReflectionEngine, a cyberpunk style n
Everybody knows why color palms are a good thing:
/wonder/ they call it the Palm V.
pr0n! WHY ELSE???
No
Organic El Technology might be the answer to color screens & good battery life.
You forgot to mention a few other, uh, benefits of CE:
* crappy battery life (as in recharge DAILY)
* horribly bloated and slow OS (an hour glass cursor while waiting to look up a phone number? no thanks)
* a platform that has been one of Microsoft's most notable failures this last year (such a dismal failure they just announced a "complete rewrite" of the OS to make it more like the Palm OS
* Another case of Microsoft having difficulty seeing outside of the little windows-box they live in (its like the saying "if you're a hammer everything looks like a nail" - if you're Microsoft, everything looks like it should run Windows)
* pathetic synchronization capabilities (my company syncs pilots over IP to java running on a server - try that with CE)
* clumsy form factor versus Palm's perfect "fit in your pocket" size
* high prices versus almost commodity prices (I just heard that Palm III's were available online for NINTEY NINE dollars!!!)
Sorry but the consumers have spoken, and for once the superior and more innovative technology has won. Palm was revolutionary and a risk, but the determination of its designers to not compromise anything to bloat and the perfect form factor made that risk more than worth it as they now completely own the Palm/PDA market. It has been humorous watching Microsoft try and adjust to this new market. Reminds me of their confused response to open-source.
-Scott
Kessler mentioned recently that yes, color would be coming. He also mentioned that since Palm is selling the technology to third-parties, that the first Palm color may not be made by 3Com.
3Com is making moves in the right direction. They have improved the screen on the IIIe, IIIx, V, and the VII, and have gradually made them better. Color is the latest step in keeping up with Windows CE.
In order to use color, they'll have to use some different processors though. The processor in the III and the VII (Dragonball) can only display 4 shades of gray. The V (Dragonball EZ) can display 16 shades of gray. I hope that they pick a better and more powerful processor for Color. The Casio E-100 can display 65 thousand colors and looks really nice. But, Palm has the superior handheld OS.
3Com has greatly improved the clarity of the display with their new screens. I'm sure that the reason that they've waited so long for color is to get it right.
Go here to get the article in english.
But seriously, for the applications I use on my Pilot, color would be unnecessary. As many have said, battery life is far more important. I'm no electrical engineer, but I wonder if supporting shades of grey takes less juice than the same number of colors. Not as sexy for the marketers, perhaps, but a more practical "improvement".
I'm probably an atypical /. reader. I'm in my third year of medical school. I recently purchased a IIIx (over the III) for one reason - the 5 minute clinical consult. After investigating the company that puts out this great product (the demo kicks ass if you're in the medical field), I found that they also had a drug program, and are about to introduce a drug-interaction program. These are well-written and niceley designed programs that will replace the multitude of books that fill my short-coat jacket. My last weight on my jacket? 10 pounds. Wear that for a couple of 18 hour shifts, or a couple of 48 hour benders, and it makes all the difference in the world.
My problem? The drug interaction book and the 5 minute clinical consult use 4.5 mb of memory. I've been investigating www.trgnet.com because they have 8mb memory upgrades - including one with a 2mb flash. I'm considering buying it so that I can have the programs I need. Other than that, I love my palm. (And it loves me too...)
But for these uses, I wouldn't need anything greater than 2mb. But, these infobooks are great and really showcase the muscle of handheld computers.
Has anyone had any experience with the products at trgnet.com, specifically for the IIIx? Installation ease? Battery life estimates? Compatibility problems?
Linux - Because Mommy taught me to Share.
Babelfish is cool and everything, but I am getting really tired of having to do this...
"You can never have too many elephants on your team."
Hmm, about the PalmPilot compared to other PDAs: It might be better than most of them, but certainly not better than the Newton. At least, if you have a closer look, it really seems to be a reduced Newton. No handwriting recogn., smaller screen, no rechargeable batteries. Internal concepts and even the DevEnv are *very* similar. OK, smaller size is nicer, and it's recognition is faster, but I want to have my assistant learn *my* language, not the other way round.
Understanding is a three-edged sword. --Kosh
I've used palms a few times, and I cant see all that much use to them.
But with a color screen, and a built in IP stack, now they are getting into the useful realm.
Can't wait. Hurry up, 3Com!
the AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
Actually, I am going to look again. Everyone around me uses them at this point, so there has to be something there.
I'm a bit jaded because I used one of the original ones a few years ago, and there wasn't enough good stuff on it to keep using it. Lately I've been using a V, which is much nicer. It would make a nice activity organiser, and I suppose I could get my act together and enter all my phone numbers into something on a PC and DL it to the palm. But since I carry a Nokia phone with 200+ entries in it already, the palm wouldn't get used all that much.
The thing that turned me off earlier was the lack of connectivity to anything other than mac and windoze. Now there are lots more linux drivers to do the same thing, so that point is gone.
The best app I could think of would be to have a mailbox which could get DLed every so often, either through infrared or docking or a low power wireless connection. I get hundreds of emails a day, and there is always down time during the day when I could be reading through all of them. But the palm would need 8Mb of storage just to hold a few days worth of my emails (attachments could be left behind).
It would also be cool to have the palm just be another IP address on my network, so an IMAP or similar process running on a linux server could sync up the mailboxes, and delete all the emails I delete on my palm.
Color is useful for highlighting important objects on the screen. I wouldn't care if it dragged the batteries down a little faster, if I could get recharging docks at work, home, in the car, etc.
Didn't mean to be a troll, I'll probably have one before Christmas (or as soon as a color one comes out)
the AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
I do not want a wince machine. Tried them, they have crossed the line of bloat, and don't seem to have the nice integrated feel of a palm.
I did have a wince machine for a while with a Proxim wireless lan, and the connectivity was cool, but the apps were pure winblows and the machine kept crashing every little while.
the AC
Hemos is like...sci-fi fans;he thinks technology is cool, but he hasn't bothered to understand the science it's based on
I refuse to believe that I am the only one that sees a trend in the history of technology, but why do we have to re-invent the wheel everytime technology takes on a new face? First we get telephones... everyone loves them. Then we get cordless phones that you can use within a few hundred feet of the house. Then we get cellular phones and everybody and their mother has one. We get pagers too--they are one step below a cell phone. People want mobility and flexibility. Why have a regular phone when you can walk and talk anywhere? Not just in the same neighborhood but in the same state/nation/hemisphere/planet.
It should be clear that computing is destined to take the same course. We get PCs on our desks and then we get laptops for travel (equivalent to pagers and cordless phones). As consumers we demanded palm pilots. Shouldn't it be logical now that computing enters the "cell phone" age in the technology evolution scale? We are only a few steps away from a Star Trek vision where one can have a palm pilot and available, massive wireless networks that make PCs and modems look like the stone age.
It's all about connectivity--give it to us.
Found something on the web about a guy who ran over his Palm Pilot...he's got pictures and a complete story... http://www.elness.com/palmv_dead.html
"Imagination is the only weapon in the war against reality." -Jules de Gautier
If you talk to anyone who has used a Palm in their daily life, they will tell you that they will never, ever give it up. These things have a tremendous amount of use.
Saying something like this almost seems like a troll.
Adding either of these increases the cost of the unit, which is another of the main reasons that it's doing so well. In addition, it's not really needed. Most people don't even come close to filling up their memory (power user excepted, of course).
The difference is that "real" handwriting recognition requires a LOT more processing power than grafitti does. Putting a processor that could handle that task would increase the price by at least $100, and would provide a very small return. Grafitti takes about 15 mniutes to learn. If you need to enter large amounts of data, you use a keyboard on your PC, then sync it in.
I admit I've never tried JOT or the other replacements for grafitti, but this is probably because I am perfectly content with grafitti, and don't see any need to change. You're not going to be much faster than grafitti than any other form of handwriting. How fast can you write on a peice of paper as compared to typing?
I couldn't agree with you more, that color, from a technical standpoint, is not warranted. However, from a marketing standpoint, it is necessary to maintain dominance. WinCE machines are coming out with color. You and I don't care about this, because we know that we don't need it. But, the average consumer is going to "ooh" and "ahh" at the color screens, and buy them first, because they look pretty.
Most of the time, the average consumer doesn't know what their needs are, and just buy the thing with most features, not stopping to think if they really need all of them.
As a Palm champion, this type of thing is a necessary marketing move, which will hopefully allow them to keep MS out of the market in force.